Homeowner Rights?

This is a link i found by googling "ohio castle doctrine".

http://www.ohioverticals.com/blogs/akron_law_cafe/2009/04/castle-doctrine-self-defense-in-the-home/

Basically, if a burglar is inside your home you can kill them.

Also read the Ohio concealed carry law on the Attorney Generals Site. That will give you an idea on self defense.

http://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov/files/Publications/Publications-for-Law-Enforcement/Concealed-Carry-Publications/Concealed-Carry-Laws-Booklet.aspx

Thanks. I will give both of these a look.

or your vehicle that you are currently occupying.

Not just "the right to kill," but:
"may use deadly force only if he reasonably and honestly believed that deadly force was necessary to prevent serious bodily harm or death."

Maybe I'll rig my backyard up with some kind of Gilligan's Island type trap out of bamboo and coconuts.

@gamegrrl that idea has some merit.

set up motion sensors on your perimeter, to triggers a bell when someone enters the property. The last thing you wanna do do is reach for a gun when you hear a window being smashed or a door being busted in.

home security works when everyone in the household is "on board". The more ppl the move variables. the responsibities of locking doors and windows and setting the alarms are a group effort.

but yeah shoot em and that ask questions

Hockeyfan,I bought some dynamite from that darn coyote, and the darn stuff blew up in my face.

IamNORMAL,next spring our 6' privacy fence is going up, and I'm hoping that will help. We already have a motion-sensor flood setup out there, but that doesn't seem to be a deterrent.

I'm planning on adding additional lighting, alarms and webcams once the fence is up. And maybe something additional from ACME ;-)

What's going on gamegrrl?

Take Normal's idea except instead of the bell go directly to the trigger and. . .

SensorG, lots of break-ins in the neighborhood. A couple of weeks ago, I looked up from my desk and there was a guy staring back at me through my window. A night or so ago, there were two guys in our back yard.

I'm getting pissed.

Landmines

I'm glad I have dogs who like to bark when anyone sets foot in our yard.

Sure, they might not stop a determined criminal. However, at least I wouldn't be caught off guard by someone staring in my window - the dogs would go ape shit the second someone breached the perimeter. At least I'd have fair warning that someone was out there!

I'm glad I have dogs who like to bark when anyone sets foot in our yard.

Sure, they might not stop a determined criminal. However, at least I wouldn't be caught off guard by someone staring in my window - the dogs would go ape shit the second someone breached the perimeter. At least I'd have fair warning that someone was out there!

(I have no idea why there's a double post - I swear I didn't hit the post button twice?)

That's scary GG. Do you have a fenced yard? I know my neighbor three houses down back yard isn’t fenced and either his the guy his yard backs up against, so the kids like to cut through from one block to the other so they don’t have to walk as far. I know something like that would piss me off.

All of my immediate neighbors all have fenced back yards and a couple of them have dogs, so we never have anyone in the back yard.

Our backyard has privacy fence at the back that belongs to those neighbors, and chain link on the other sides, which is very easy to jump over.

I also have two very large dogs, and they bark whenever they see something that shouldn't be there.

It's quite interesting: I'm pretty much a pacifist. I don't own a weapon. But I'm finding my anger level regarding this has pushed me to the point that I'm afraid the next time I will grab SOMETHING as a weapon and just go running out the door, screaming like a banshee and trying my best to hurt someone.

Sheesh. It's like the Anti-Me, but dudes...

gamegirl

That dang coyote must have used the Acme Company for his supplies.

GG that is outrageous. I have put up motion flood lights on my house for both myself and my neighbors. I also have dogs that bark very loud.
If you need help with the motion lights, or a fence and need help, please post on here.
I can't imagine how upset I'd be if a female family membe went through what you posted.
Be safe, call police no matter how insignificant you think it is when it comes to your safety.

Well, in addition to the two big dogs and back yard motion light, I also have a great big guy here who's a great protector :-) We are keeping our front porch light on all the time, too.

As we move forward with our fence/lighting/alarm plans, I really do want to know what I can do, physically, to someone who trespasses or makes me feel threatened. Do they have to be pointing a gun at me for me to be within my rights to beat the crap out of them with a baseball bat? What about a pellet gun?

This is an example of "It doesn't matter what the law is when it comes to your personal safety".

What I mean by that is if you wake up to find someone in your house, you do whatever you feel is necessary to protect yourself. Worry about the law later. You have a God given right to protect yourself and your family. While it can be argued that chasing an intruder down the street for half a mile after a break-in and shooting him in the back is wrong, I highly doubt anyone on a jury would find you guilty of anything if you sprung up out of bed and beat the living crap out of an intruder with a ball bat or wooden spoon. Whatever you find as a "weapon of opportunity".

Gosh, if the lights, dogs and big guy aren't enough of a deterent for these "wanderers", I'd up the stakes and either leave the dogs outside a little longer, or get one of those motion activated sprinklers. At least they'd get wet for intruding. Plus it would be quite startling.

We keep our dogs inside unless they're out (on a leash) doing their 'business'.

I DO really like the sprinkler idea for non-freezing times of the year. And maybe it's time I get my concealed carry permit. I'm a very good shot.

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2305.40

You might consider parking a can of hornet spray in each room. In our workplace we were told to use that rather than carry pepper spray. Set the nozzle to one solid stream (not the wide-spread spray pattern) and aim for their eyes.

It would be pretty easy (not to mention inexpensive) to do some target practice in your backyard with spray cans, to build up your confidence.

I think if I saw guys looking in my window or standing in the yard, I would open a window and start screaming a stream of foul abuse using many harsh words. The goal is to sound like an insane person. Your neighbors might even call the police ... and loiterers might get the idea to avoid the yard of the crazy lady.

I hate to raise the issue, but is there any chance they are out there peeing? I once lived in a building that had some very popular bushes ... male "visitors" would step off the public sidewalk, get behind the bushes, and unzip. Usually I was right there watching TV, ten feet away. :-)

I dunno about the peeing thing, but the window thing took place outside a window to the back yard. Our suspicion is that this guy was one of the bunch that scattered when the cops showed up because of a group hanging out drinking and shooting craps on the front porch of the abandoned house next door.

And yeah, I did kinda go all "crazy woman" on him.

I love the hornet spray idea :-)

We're nice, we're helpful, we're good community members and citizens. But don't mistake our kindness for weakness. I will NOT be walked on nor governed by fear.

Just don't confuse the terms "residence" and "property." They have different meanings with respect to the law.

For some rules of thumb, as long as you don't kill or permanently disable an intruder, the law will be pretty supportive of whatever measures you take to defend yourself inside you own home. (and as brainswell said, residence and property are different. You can never harm someone for being in your yard, hopping your fence, whatever, unless they're actually trying to harm you and you have absolutely no other choice but to hurt them to protect yourself)

If you shoot them, the law is going to look at a lot of factors before they support you. How did they get in, did they have a weapon on them, is it reasonable to think they were actually going to hurt you and not just loot the place, what room were they in (a burglar in your bedroom is much more serious than a burglar in your garage).

And there have been a lot of comments about elaborate traps and everything, and I know they've all been in good humor, but just to make sure nobody gets the wrong idea: please don't set up any traps. Motion sensors for lights, sirens, and all that stuff are perfectly fine (and a good idea), but anything that would cause harm to someone is never ever protected by the law. No matter what intentions the person has, if they step into a trap you laid for them, you will get sued, and they will win. I'd hate to come on here one day and read that someone is going to jail because they dug a pit and put spikes in it or something crazy like that because they thought they were actually allowed to do that.

I hear you, brainswell.

Something I did the other night seemed to have an impact: There was a group of VERY loud rabblerousers acting like a mob precursor on our street. I opened my front door and starting taking random photos with my flash on. I knew the photos would be worthless and dark, but apparently they didn't. They moved on.

Johio83 is not quite accurate.

The Castle Doctrine makes the assumption that if you used deadly force it was your right to do so. In the past, if you used deadly force, you would be forced to establish that you felt in mortal danger and that you attempted to flee the attack. Now if I kill someone in or entering my home or while I am in my car, the assumption is that it is a good shoot. Of course the police will investigate to be sure that you didn't simply bump someone off but the entire process is now coming from a different perspective vs prior castle doctrine.

You cannot use deadly force to protect your property. But, the district attorney will give you wide latitude under the Castle Doc to claim that you were in fear of your life. There have been several cases in Ohio since its introduction into law.

If someone is lurking around my backyard at 2:00am and I open my back door to see what is happening...the immediate assumption is that a reasonable person is going to fear for their safety. If you have a child in the home then your argument is even stronger.

Example, I live in Sylvania. I carry a firearm almost 100% of the time. Last summer I discover some druggie teen milling around my backyard at 4:00am. I call 911. I do not draw my weapon but I do confront the trespasser. The police arrive and take him away. The cop is quite upset that I did NOT draw my weapon and hold it on him until they arrive. He explains that if it had been his property the Glock would have been aimed at his head, especially with a 3 year old in the house.

Castle is a great source of comfort should you have to shoot someone entering your home or car. There have been several cases of homeowners in Toledo shooting and even killing intruders (over the past 2 years) and they have all been good shoots.

Excellent food for thought, Johio83.

So here's a question for everyone: Do "No Trespassing" signs carry any weight, or does the mere existence of a 6' privacy fence scream "NO FREAKING TRESPASSING!" all by itself?

You can press charges for trespassing and all that, you just can't hurt somebody for doing it.

And for Star56, I think we're basically arguing what the letter of the law is, and how it's carried out. No rule is bullet proof, and lawyers will always be able to circumvent them. Sort of like divorce attorney's and their pride in the fact that no prenuptial agreement can do what it was meant to do.

JOhio,

If that's the case then explain to me how a person gets off on a murder charge because he was in his vehicle, and had less than 5 grams of Heroin. Sounds like a drug buy gone bad but he isn't being charged for the shooting just the drugs and improperly handling a firearm, while in a vehicle most likely because he didn't have a CHL

http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/dayton-news/murder-charge-denied-due-to-self-defense-law-prosecutors-say-1274971.html?cxtype=ynews_rss

Actually, keep in mind with a privacy fence your own neighbors and other people are less likely to see any intruders sneaking around your windows. The no trespassing signs are a complete waste of time. A few well-placed rose bushes work better. LOL

For yourself, while wasp spray is useful, the clicking of a shotgun is going to scram anyone creeping around your house if/when they hear it. If force is needed, skip the wasp spray and use the shotgun.

http://www.amazon.com/NEVER-MIND-BEWARE-OWNER-Plastic/dp/B0040BPJ60

This is what I have glued near my rear picture window.

http://www.amazon.com/NEVER-MIND-BEWARE-OWNER-Sign/dp/B003DDCFCW

These are only 95 cents a piece. I think I'll send them to my VFW Christmas card list.

Gamegrrl...if you are serious about obtaining your CHL (concealed handgun license) I highly recommend this site: http://ohioccwforums.org/. I cannot say enough about this site. This group is excellent when it comes to the laws in Ohio with regards to carrying concealed or carrying in general. There are many discussions on Castle Doctrine and other topics that revolve around your ability to protect yourself/family etc. I never thought of myself as someone that would consider carrying concealed but as crime keeps rising in Toledo and the limited number of police, I felt there was no other option. I have a family to protect and I hope the day never comes that I have to shoot someone but if it does I will be prepared. Just my $.02.

I've been listening to the police scanner when I'm at home and not busy.

I live in the inner city, and I am shocked at the number of break-ins, robberies, and home invasions that are happening throughout the city, both day and night.

What's even more shocking is WHERE these crimes are happening. I guess the people on my street really are fortunate as we have a collection of people that are both home and aware what's happening in the immediate area.

A few years ago, I petitioned the block to have more street lights installed. While there was a small assessment, it's much more effective than people only using porch lights.

People really are putting themselves at risk by not owning a weapon. Serious crimes aren't only happening in the "bad" neighborhoods. No part of Toledo is absent this activity now based on what I'm hearing daily from the scanner.

Arming ourselves not only protects us, it increasing a few of these pieces of garbage end up dying via being shot and killed during a home invasion. Which in turn, will make everyone safer.

Things seem to have really escalated lately. One of our neighbors was robbed in her home at gunpoint on Halloween. You might have seen it on the news. They've captured one of the thugs, but the other one is still at large.

This vacant house next door to us is a lure for gangs and other ne'er-do-wells, too. I will be happy when it's gone in a few months, but until then, it will just keep attracting the local criminal element. At least there's a light at the end of THAT tunnel.

We leave our porch light on all night. We also have a front yard lamp post that comes on at dusk. Motion sensor floods in the back. Our side door concerns me, as there's no light there at all. I bought a light, but it will be complicated to install as there's not an existing circuit in place.

Still not sure how I feel about carrying a weapon (gun) or even having one in the house. I shot an M-16 in the military, so I'm not fearful of weapons. It's more that I worry that I will find myself in a position to have to decide whether or not to pull the trigger. Would I hesitate? Too long? Would the criminal end up with the weapon? Or maybe I would end up shooting first and asking questions later. I don't like ANY of these scenarios, but I also don't like feeling afraid in my own home.

Game, for pete's sake, buy a gun, get your ccw, get some range time, and send the pieces of shit to the graveyard if they come into your house.

Listen to the www.radioreference.com for a week if you need something to motivate you.

I love the feed there, 6th_Floor. Amazing what all goes on. shiver