5/3 Bank Transfer Day???

...credit union credit union credit union credit union...

Huffington Post: America's 7 Least Trusted Banks

1. HSBC
2. CitiBank
3. Fifth Third
4. TD
5. Capital One
6. Chase
7. Bank of America

Yeah, it may be time to dump 5/3. Many small reasons over the 15 years I have been with them, but those reasons build up. I just wish the credit unions had more locations and were more convenient.

any more links than the toledo blade article?
i use 5/3 for my business, and would love to know more info...

I don't have any accounts with 5/3rd. However, if it is true that Bostleman made good faith efforts to settle debts fairly, I think its quite unfortunate that the situation played out as it did.

Credit unions are the way to go...can't stress that enough.

upso - All bankruptcy filings and the documents contained therin are public record. You start here by creating an account linked to a credit/debit card. Absolutely anyone can create an account. The credit/debit card link is for the cost of obtaining online records (which you can print) and is an extremely minimum per page charge of 8 cents and which doesn't even kick in until you reach the $10.00 mark in one quarter. If you dont total $10 in a quarter the fees are waived. Its hard to get to that much even in a long complicated bankruptcy that has many pages of documents.

http://www.pacer.gov/

Once you create an account you'll search The Ohio Northern District Court which covers Lucas County. You can search by the name of an individual or a company name.

Again, anyone can do this. They are public records.

Just to play devil's advocate, if I borrowed money from you and decided that instead of paying you back, I'd rather give whatever money I had left to my friend to help him out - would that be fair?

Unless I'm wrong, which I sometimes am, this is a business owner failing to repay the ones who lent him the money in the first place. Correct?

If Bostleman built the Toledo area Walmarts, that helped put many small, locally owned companies out of business, why should we feel sorry for Bostleman, when they go out of business ? I don't.

Let's take that logic ChuckBronson, one step farther. The people that worked for Bostleman that built the Walmarts got what they deserved too! Right Chuck?

I had one good experience with 5/3 for a car loan, probably because I paid it off early. Recently, I had a problem with a credit card. My name was misspelled on the card, and no one would help me correct it. Telemarketing called every two weeks to offer some other service, but I explained I could not do business until they corrected my initial customer service request. ^ months later resolved.

Let them get a job at Walmart.

Something is not right if Bostleman's assets are only 50k and they own multiple investment properties, in addition to their offices or any equipment they might have. The scope of the numbers game is yet to be revealed. Shame on 5/3 for not realizing this and lending them 1.6 million unsecured.

I stopped banking with 5/3 years ago after a dispute and never returned. Glad to be disassociated with them.

Um newbie - the friends as you call them - are the Bostleman employees and the vendors that Bostleman owes oney to. They would be getting what they are due from the Bostleman's family personal money.

On your second point you are somewhat correct. 5/3 bank loaned the Bostleman company. 5/3 is "calling" the loans. That means they want the entire balance due paid now. They are unwilling to accept any loan payments from Bostleman except the full amount. That happens when the debtor falls behind in their payments and there is no time in the forseeable future when the debtor will be able to make any payments. In other words Bostlemans cash flow is at zero because of the down economy and there's no promise of any substantial new business in the short term.

Unfortunately, I can't site specific instances because I just can't remember, but this isn't the first time I've heard of 5/3 doing this. I wish I had a better memory but when I was searching around a few years ago for a second bank I looked hard at 5/3 and decided against them for reasons like this. Kept most of my money at Huntington and opened up a new account at Glass City. Seems like Huntington has done a pretty good job in the area investing and providing loans.

Took a look at the bankruptcy filing today. Lots of local contractors listed in there, several of who are owed more than $200,000 and one (Laibe Electric) who is owed $635,746. This is going to drag some other businesses down with it.

...several of who are owed more than $200,000 and one (Laibe Electric) who is owed $635,746.

I know nothing about construction finance, but that seems to be an exceedingly high amount for a firm to rack up with one vendor. But once again, I don't know what "typical" would be. dbw? MI_Builder?

That is not exceedingly high. That could be a draw on one big project. I have an apartment project in Toledo that has an electric contract worth $550,000. And this is an apartment. If you think about big commercial projects (like Bostleman built), you could easily rack up millions of owed money.

ace - is there a link to the filings?

slowsol--thanks!

No link. Like Holland said, you have to use the Pacer system.

Missed that - went back to his post. Thanks. Did AA Boos or Spieker Co lose any $? Tried to use the site but I am not that swift apparently.

AA Boos isn't listed, but Spieker is: $195,849.

At one Bostleman project site, two Bostleman employees (now ex-employees) are being hired by the building owner to complete the project and purchase orders are being re-issued directly to the sub-contractors by the building owner.

Thanks Ace. I know people at both places and I would hate to see them lose $$$.

Hoops - that's great!

No lie: I just opened my 5/3 statement and found that they did not give me credit for a $1500 dollar deposit last month. This is the last straw.

I sure hope you have a receipt.

Today, I took my receipt for the deposit to the same branch I made the deposit at. The deposit was half cash and half check (one I wrote to myself from one of my accounts a a different bank). The tellers looked at their computer screens, double checked everything, called the manager over, and then decided that they didn't have the clearance to decide what had actually happened. They agreed that their screens indicated that my deposit went to my correct account, but they couldn't explain why it wasn't on my statement. There was much whispering amongst them at the far end of the teller windows before I was assured that this would be looked at by the higher ups.

I have a feeling that I have just uncovered some employee theft at 5/3 Bank.

If it turns out to be what you suspect, will you still keep your account at 5/3rd or move on, JM?

While I miss the number of locations from a bank, I am happy with my credit union's stance on fees and charges. Before you know it they will be charging for breathable air in the bank lobby.

People ARE voting with their feet (and dollars):

New Bank Fees Push More Americans to Credit Unions

note: the article is dated 10/4/11--about one week after Bank of America announced it's new card fees, now rescinded because they were losing a shitload of customers

...a record breaking 3,200 checking accounts were opened over the weekend at the Navy Federal Credit Union, the world's largest credit union with 3.7 million members and nearly $48 billion in assets. The weekend surge--which crushed the previous high of 2,500--fits into a larger trend for the credit union....[i]t has had annual growth between 6.3% and 6.7% since 2007, and is on track to record a 14% uptick in membership this year.

Changing banks is what I want to do, just out of principal, but it will be a minor pain in the ass. My mortgage is with 5/3, and the payment comes out of this account automatically. I have an ARM with them that is at a ridiculously low rate right now, so I don't want to screw that up somehow. And, I have several other automatic withdrawals that come out, too, that I would have to change around. They need to make me happy after this problem, however.

JohnnyMac - Did the check you wrote to yourself clear the account on which it was written? If so, the numbers "sprayed" on the back contain all the information about where the check was presented for payment, on what date, the institutions through which it was routed and the date it cleared.

If it didn't clear, ask 5/3 for their copy. All checks are imaged at the first bank where they are presented, which in your case is 5/3 obviously. Its very odd that a CSR would try to use a deposit that contained both cash and a check to give him/herself a Christams bonus. A paper check leaves a big electronic trail. That's a very dumb way to steal.

One other thing to consider, bank managers and branch operations managers both have account posting authority. However that's an even dumber way to try to steal. The electronic trail would lead directly back to them and it would be a short one at that.

Did they say when you would get your deposit credited correctly? I wouldn't stand for too long a wait. There's no reason for any wait. Whatever internal investigation they have to do does not depend on keeping your money until they sort it out.

The check I wrote to myself was drawn on Huntington, and before I went to 5/3 yesterday I stopped by Huntington and they printed out a copy of my check for me with 5/3's endorsement on the back, so I am guessing that yes my check has cleared. The manager at 5/3 said they couldn't credit my account on the spot, and I didn't really push the issue, being Friday at 1 pm and I had a 1:30 appointment.

You're on top of it JohnnyMac.

Is Willson Builders on the list?

Is Willson Builders on the list?

Yes, $45,373.58. I have the whole thing as a .pdf if jr can advise on how to upload.

Thanks, Ace

"I have the whole thing as a .pdf if jr can advise on how to upload."

I don't provide the ability to upload attachments. How big is the file, megabyte-wise? If you want, you can e-mail the file to me, and I'll put it on the server. Or maybe a Web service exists out there where one can upload PDF files.

Emailed the 10GB pdf to you, jr. Look for something from toledoattorney AT gmail.com.

"The suburban Toledo company filed for Chapter 11 business reorganization Thursday in U.S. Bankruptcy Court in Toledo but changed that to Chapter 7 liquidation Monday after the bank rejected the company's attempt to use funds from a group of Bostleman family investors to pay off vendors, subcontractors, clients, and employees while also making a settlement with Fifth Third."

This really hit me. It seems businesses to often abscure themselves from being "real people" and utilizes their lawful abilities to their benefit.

This however seemed like not only a responsible businessman trying to make amends with its debtors, but a faithful workforce who was also willing to donate in to keep their jobs and keep things afloat.

My interpretation might be wrong but from the wording of this sounds like 5/3 was in the wrong.

Fortunately, it's a 10 meg PDF file and not a 10 gig file.

Try accessing it at this link:

http://tinyurl.com/BostlemanBankruptcyFiling

Ha! I was thinking why?

After reading this, I might have my final straw and will ditch my 5/3 account.

I'm looking at my current account activity, and I have almost a weeks worth of transactions still "pending" including a fairly large one that's been sitting there since the 16th.

While I have enough to cover everything and then some, I get the impression they are just stacking everything in hopes I'll OD my account. Again that's my opinion and have no proof but have never seen this happen anywhere else. (1-2 days maybe but a whole week?).

Wow. If you do change accounts make sure you have the new bank explain thoroughly their "hold" policy on items deposited in a new DDA (demand deposit account/checking account). You don't want to wind up in a worse situation. Under Reg CC banks have some leeway in clearing deposited items for a new account and its always in favor of the bank.

http://www.federalreserve.gov/pubs/regcc/regcc.htm

Particularly important for you is to read the section in the link provided entitled "Delaying Funds Availabilty".

It was my experience as a bank auditor, and then later as a commercial customer, that banks would often have internal policies that did NOT meet Reg CC compliance. They seemed to rely on the fact that the average depositor would not know their rights or know what to do if the bank was not in compliance with Reg CC. (You have to write to the Federal Reserve District in which the bank is located.) The average customer is usually clueless. Commercial customers are
not protected by REG CC, however the Federal Reserve frowns on banks taking advantage of this and will take a complaint if there is a clear violation that is not justifiable.

Banks do NOT want ANY customer, personal or commercial, contacting the Federal Reserve. Usually, if they know they are or may not be justifiably in compliance, they will take steps to correct the deficiency quickly. They dont want compliance auditors poking around and possibly finding a pattern of non-compliance or their getting into the grey areas on a regular basis.

Banks program the Reg CC clearing times into their DDA account clearing process. These clearing times are sometimes "overidden" on an individual account basis depending on the banking relationship the customer has. In other words the Branch Manager can make your life easy or not so easy if they have the authority to "override" and most of them do. If you're getting the run around from the bank ask them if they added any special clearing restrictions on your account. Ask why they did that. Ask how long are those clearing restrictions supposed to be in place. Ask who has the authority to change them. They will squirm big time. Dont be surprised if they say they have to ask another department. Ask for a definite day and time that they will answer your questions, otherwise they will not act.

Jesus, I'm glad I'm retired and out of the biz. Of all the institutions the American public has to deal with on a regular basis, large banks are THE WORST. Everything is in their favor. They are the most dishonest and corrupt institutions on the planet. Stay with a small community bank or better yet, a credit union.

Thanks holland, I'll more than likely end back at Bay Area Credit Union really liked them. The only reason I switched was because my employer still issues checks (no direct deposit) and if I needed money same day for bills I didn't want to have to pay $5-$8 to cash it. In hindsight it really wasn't a good reason to switch.

Another fun banking story. One time I made a couple purchases, a $100 debit was "frozen" from my account to cover the cost but didn't reflect on my actual account. So then a couple things came in and ended up causing some OD's. The kicker? Once that was all over they processed the $100 and then charged me an OD on that since at that point my account was in OD.

In the end I had all but 1 OD removed, and closed my account that day.

Things like that are why, no matter what, I try to leave some wiggle room in my account.

I do bookwork for a guy that had a vending company, he had a lot of checks written from his account. What I always thought was flaky is the processing order, largest checks first, so if the big ones trip the OD's then you have a lot more smaller ones to pay a OD fee on.

Yep, Linecrosser that is standard practice in the banking world. I do believe I read something somewhere that there is legislation being proposed or passed that will require banks to process the checks in chronological order. Maybe somebody else can provide better information on this.

dell_diva: from my understanding that has already been made illegal due to Obama's overhaul of the Banking industry post collapse.

You should NEVER play games with a checking account where your balance and pending purchases/payments are going to be close to $0. Put $250, $500, or something like that in there and think of that as $0 and anything under that baseline as "oh shit I'm broke". Easiest way to avoid overdrafting.

How about you slide me the $250 or $500 so I can ignore it? I am no financial wizard, but I'm sure that I'm not the only one that can't afford to ignore that kind of money.

agree with hockeyfan. When you live paycheck to paycheck even after a tight budget it can be rough. I try to keep $100 there as floating money just in case, separate from savings (at least now). Getting there :)

Wow ac, you're sounding a lot like one of those "evil rich Conservatives" that you hate so much. An extra $500 just laying around? Taking personal responsibility?? Who are you and what did you do with the real ac??!!

Guess some people didn't get the point. If you're spending everything you've got and you don't have some sort of Major Problem going on (medical bills, major car repairs, whatever), then you're failing at fiscal responsibility. It's not there to be "ignored", it's the "oh shit" money for car repairs and so on. Just like you're supposed to have a couple hundred on hand at home for the "oh shit I need to evacuate" emergency kit. You're supposed to be smart enough to avoid giving the bank free money from your overdraft fees in the first place so you don't end up even more broke due to your own actions.

Yes, and people are "supposed" to tell the truth, and contracts are supposed to not go to known drug dealers, and tarta is supposed to keep accurate financial records.

This post wasn't about what you're "supposed" to do, but rather how the banks twist their procedures to screw you.

And the bank didn't put exactly how they were going to screw you into the fine print on whatever you signed?

All the bullshit that went on with banks handing out insane deals on mortgages without proper means-checking and cooking the paperwork and so on (think Countrywide and mortgage-backed securities) is the banks' fault. Having your account go overdrawn because they ran the transactions largest to smallest and you stupidly ran around with your balance playing chicken with your transactions and realized at 4:45pm you needed to deposit something is your own fault. OF COURSE they're going to stack the deck against you, they're all PUBLICLY TRADED CORPORATIONS and they are pretty much legally required to do so or the shareholders will sue! They weren't pressing guns against the heads of people to take on a $250k mortgage with nothing down - it however was the banks' dumb asses being risky by doing it for people who lived paycheck-to-paycheck at their minimum-wage Mickey D's job.

Don't forget as well that "pending" transactions aren't necessarily the fault of YOUR bank, it's just as much the OTHER end hanging on to it for as long as THEY can so they get the benefit of a few nanoseconds more interest and so on. It's all a matter of how hard each bank and payment processor wants to screw you, the merchants, and each other. Of course, we could RON PAUL END THE FEDERAL RESERVE RON PAUL, but what would we replace it with (since the Fed is 60% of the ACH network and makes the ACH regulations)? The "libertarians" and anyone who distrusts the government would shit bricks at true government control of ACH (OMG the Feds are tracking my every dime!), and the Teabaggers that are still pissed at the bank-side of things and anyone who dislikes massive corporate control and the "let's charge for debit cards!" crap would have massive cows about complete privatization of ACH. What do you do....?

ac: the "oh shit I need to evacuate" emergency kit.

That is a great idea, I keep an old Alice backpack full of emergency supplies. Never thought to keep some cash in there as well. Thanks for the tip.

That's the "oh shit, ATMs aren't working or empty/banks are closed/massive power outage/emergency bribe" money. The more nutjob cases start getting into stashing away gold and silver coins and whatnot in their kits, but if things are really that bad that nobody is taking US Dollars, then what the hell good are coins? At least bills are usable to start fires or as TP.

The only reason I switched was because my employer still issues checks (no direct deposit) and if I needed money same day for bills I didn't want to have to pay $5-$8 to cash it

I use Directions Credit Union, and my employer doesn't do direct deposit either, as long as i deposit at least $5 in my checking account they will give me the rest in cash if i need it.