Toledo Talk

Right-to-work will not save Manufacturing Jobs

This post is in response to the woman who responded to my call on WSPD a week ago. She stated that I had it all wrong, the jobs were leaving to the southern right-to-work states not to other countries. Fred and the misinformed WSPD ditto heads take note!

Arkansas town braces as Whirlpool shuts big plant
By Suzi Parker
FORT SMITH, Ark | Mon Oct 31, 2011
Quote from article:
"Whirlpool said the plant's remaining production, mainly side-by-side refrigerators, would be taken over by a plant in Ramos Arizpe, Mexico. But Gosack said consumer demand for those refrigerators was weak and he expected them to be phased out completely before long."
Complete article: http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/31/us-whirlpool-arkansas-idUSTRE79U5QK20111031

Ohio Won't Lose Whirlpool Jobs
MARION, Ohio
Friday October 28, 2011
Quote from article:
"Every Whirlpool location across the Buckeye state said they will be adding jobs, some of which were lost from other locations in the U.S."
Complete article: http://www.onntv.com/content/stories/2011/10/28/story-whirlpool-job-cuts.html

created by wolfman on Nov 20, 2011 at 03:24:58 pm     Politics     Comments: 22

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Comments ... #

One company does not a trend make...

Actually, a study done several years ago by the National Institute for Labor Relations Research compared the economic performances of Texas and Ohio. It looked at the fact that Texas had added 1,615,000 new jobs over the decade studied while Ohio lost 10,400 jobs. It said that the primary cause for the performance gape was the right-to-work (RTW) laws in Texas.

Other lesser factors included the fact that Texas has no state income tax and some (though not all) provisions of NAFTA.

So while we may be successful with Whirlpool, it doesn't mean we aren't losing other jobs to RTW states.

In fact, the NILRR also found this:

Between 1995 and 2005, U.S. Department of Labor data show private-sector job growth in Right to Work states exceeded private-sector job growth in non-Right to Work states as a group by 79% and in Ohio alone by nearly 500%. Over the same period, inflation-adjusted U.S. Commerce Department data show real personal income growth in Right to Work states exceeded overall personal income growth in non-Right to Work states by 39% and exceeded Ohio’s meager increase by 142%. Meanwhile, U.S. Census Bureau statistics show that, from 1994 to 2004, the number of citizens covered by private health insurance grew by 11.5% in Right to Work states, slightly more than double the aggregate growth in non-Right to Work states. In Ohio, over the same period, the ranks of the privately insured actually declined by 0.2%.

Now, you may not like the NILRR, but the figures are from the government (DOL, Commerce Dept. and Census) not from the NILRR - NILRR is just pointing them out.

I would be interested in a newer study to see what impact the recession has had - perhaps not as much as in private-sector employment due to the number of public-sector jobs in Ohio that have NOT been shed (yet).

Perhaps Whirlpool is the beginning of a reversal of the trend - I don't know. But I do know that economic issues are not the only reason to support a RTW law in Ohio.

posted by MaggieThurber on Nov 21, 2011 at 08:58:25 am     #  

Conservatives are presenting RTW as a moral cause because for the most part the economic argument simply isn’t there.

Now as employee of a company, I make that company money, which in turn they use to support causes I don’t believe in and feel are moral wrong. Why am I being forced to support them? As a stock holder in the company, they is the company spending dollars things that I find moral wrong when that money should be coming back to me?

The obvious answer is I should find a new job and a new investment. If you don’t want to work for a union shop, go down the street to one that isn’t. Pretty simple…

posted by SensorG on Nov 21, 2011 at 10:19:48 am     #  

"If you don’t want to work for a union shop, go down the street to one that isn’t." - Really chaps my ass to say it but I agree.

But I would fight for the remove the clauses such as "must use union labor" from government contracts and let unions stand side by side with the market. Then let the person paying the bill (the taxpayer) deiced the best value for their dollar.

We don't need to be rid of unions just level the playing field and let them stand on their own merits with zero bailout dollars to cover their cost structure.

posted by dbw8906 on Nov 21, 2011 at 10:39:38 am     #   1 person liked this

Paul Krugman on Texas
The Texas jobs myth: Gov. Rick Perry is no miracle worker
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/opinion/2015919308_krugman16.html
"But what does population growth have to do with job growth? Well, the high rate of population growth translates into above-average job growth through a couple of channels. Many of the people moving to Texas — retirees in search of warm winters, middle-class Mexicans in search of a safer life — bring purchasing power that leads to greater local employment. At the same time, the rapid growth in the Texas work force keeps wages low — almost 10 percent of Texan workers earn the minimum wage or less, well above the national average — and these low wages give corporations an incentive to move production to the Lone Star State."

posted by wolfman on Nov 21, 2011 at 10:43:09 am     #   1 person liked this

Right wing talking heads: Stop the Lies

posted by wolfman on Nov 21, 2011 at 10:49:09 am     #  

Paul is right, right to work won't save manufacturing jobs. Just read this article from Manufacturing Net. I can't find the evidence but I'm pretty sure they must be funded by some right wing conservative organization.

The pro-job environment in right-to-work states is paying off with new automotive jobs. Tennessee is the home of Volkswagen’s new $1 billion auto assembly plant, as well as plants operated by Nissan and GM. Alabama boasts billion-dollar plants operated by Mercedes-Benz, Honda and Hyundai. Texas enjoys a large automotive manufacturing presence with Peterbilt, GM, International and Toyota. One reason for these states’ growing success in the automotive industry is their strong right-to-work laws embodying a commitment to a worker’s right to choose not to be part of a labor union. Right-to-work laws are an important factor to companies considering where to set up new operations.

In the twenty-two states with right-to-work laws, workers cannot be forced to join unions, or to pay union dues if they decide not to join. In non-right-to-work states, workers must join unions or pay union dues to keep their jobs. If an employee working in a non-right-to-work state fails to join the union or pay union dues then the union forces the company to terminate the employee.

What does the automotive industry’s decision to set up shop mean for these right-to-work states? It means jobs and increased tax revenues. An analysis by the University of Tennessee predicted that Volkswagen’s recent investment will raise incomes in the region by $511 million annually and will generate more than $55 million per year in new tax revenues. Other automotive manufacturers and component suppliers are spending billions in upgrades and new construction at plants in right-to-work states.

Many states have not been as fortunate as Tennessee, Alabama and Texas. For example, states such as New Hampshire have problems attracting businesses and producing job growth partly because union’s have successfully thwarted lawmakers’ repeated attempts to pass right-to-work legislation. The New Hampshire legislature overwhelmingly passed right-to-work legislation earlier this year only to have the legislation vetoed by the governor. New Hampshire would have been the first state in the Northeast to have a right-to-work law.

The National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation reports that right-to-work states “enjoy faster growth and higher real purchasing power than their forced unionism counterparts.” Research from other groups confirms the Foundation’s claims and shows that right-to-work laws are also better for individual workers. A study by the National Institute for Labor Relations Research indicates that from 1999 to 2009, right-to-work states saw a 28.3 percent increase in personal income, compared to a 14.7 percent increase in non-right-to-work states. Right-to-work laws are also good for the businesses that employ the workers. A recent study evaluated 30 factors to identify the top 10 best states to do business, and the top 5 states on the list were right-to-work states.

A labor union is attempting to prevent Boeing from opening a plant in South Carolina (right-to-work state) instead of Washington (non-right-to-work state). In 2009, Boeing announced that it would build a plant to meet demand for its new 787 Dreamliner aircraft. Boeing wanted to build the plane at its existing plant in Washington, and attempted to negotiate with the union representing its workers, the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers. The talks broke down because the union wanted a seat on Boeing’s board of directors and a promise that Boeing would build all future airplanes in Washington.

Boeing has experienced significant problems with the union for many years. The union shut down Boeing’s production line four times since 1989, including a 58-day strike in 2008 that cost Boeing $1.8 billion. Following the failed negotiations with the union regarding the Dreamliner plant, Boeing began looking for alternative locations. Their decision to open a facility in South Carolina will create more than 1,000 jobs and will add $6 billion annually to South Carolina’s economy. Boeing’s decision highlights the benefits states receive when they honor workers’ freedom to choose not to join a union.

Boeing’s decision to build the new plant in South Carolina infuriated the union. They filed an unfair labor practice charge with the NLRB asking the government to stop Boeing’s plans to open the new facility. The NLRB responded by filing a complaint alleging Boeing retaliated against the union by acting out of “anti-union animus” when it moved production work to South Carolina. The NLRB is asking a judge to order Boeing to operate the aircraft production line at a unionized plant in Washington. The union hailed the NLRB’s complaint as “a victory for all American workers.” Boeing is vigorously contesting the case and is moving forward with plans to assemble planes in South Carolina. The Boeing South Carolina plant could be operating for years before the dispute is resolved.

The NLRB’s attempt to take away Boeing’s ability to run its business is an unprecedented move that is contrary to federal law. Moreover, the NLRB’s actions are bad for business and could have a chilling effect on an already struggling economy. Companies are reluctant to invest in new operations or hire new employees when the companies’ CEOs fear political meddling in business affairs that might impose higher costs. In addition, the NLRB’s action violates a fundamental principle of our American values – that individuals and companies have the right to make their own decisions without government intervention. The National Association of Manufacturers recently surveyed its members regarding how the NLRB’s action against Boeing is affecting their decision-making. Approximately 69 percent of the survey participants indicated the government’s case against Boeing would hurt job growth. Around 49 percent said their capital expenditure plans “have been or may be impacted by the NLRB’s complaint.”

The benefits to right-to-work states and their residents are clear – jobs are created because businesses want to move to pro-business states and workers have the freedom to choose whether they want to join a union

posted by fred on Nov 21, 2011 at 12:34:53 pm     #  

RTW create more jobs Fred? Then why are 8 of the 12 highest unemployment rates in RTW states? These include Alabama, Tennessee and South Carolina. Which I argue, the only reason they can attrack any businesses at all is because they are able to use Federal tax dollars that they suck out of NY, CA and NJ to offer huge incentives that most northern/ RTW states couldn’t dream about.

http://www.examiner.com/finance-examiner-in-national/volkswagon-receives-570-million-tax-incentives-for-new-plant-tennessee

Basically Volkswagen built its $1 billion with almost 60% paid for by the tax payer! Alabama was only offering to build 40% of the plant for them. If Tennessee and Alabama weren’t sucking at the teats of union states they wouldn’t be able to attack any business at all.

posted by SensorG on Nov 21, 2011 at 01:52:31 pm     #   1 person liked this

It's not right-to-work, it's the fact that those deep red southern states with their Teapublican governors and legislatures who supposedly completely and utterly LOATHE "bailouts" and "government handouts" basically hand these big companies BILLIONS in "incentives" to come to their states. And then they go on to bitch about "pork barrel politics" and "earmarks".

BIGGEST FUCKING HYPOCRITES EVER.

So keep on sucking that Koch there Mags and Fred. As long as you've got that hot Koch in your mouth you can't explain how tax breaks, grants, infrastructure improvements, etc. etc. are not "corporate welfare" like the bailouts you (supposedly) rail against, or are the government spending you (supposedly) hate. As long as Alabama and Mississippi and Tex-ass say "Hey Big Corporations, y'all come on down here and we'll give you a 30 year tax break and build a highway to your plant and whatever else you want HERP DERP DURR!" while the sane states say "um we can't afford to match that level of insanity", the Big Corporations will just go on using those states like the cheap whores they are.

Me, personally, I'm just waiting because in 20 years when global warming has really kicked in, there won't be jack shit left in those states, as whatever isn't blown away by the hurricanes and tornadoes will be baked dry by drought and unlivable without massive A/C... and you just figure out how much A/C you need to cool down an auto assembly plant.

posted by anonymouscoward on Nov 21, 2011 at 07:27:10 pm     #  

wait you bitch about States giving away "incentives" but then you rail on people who want to end public dollars for private companies. Then bitch about them Teabagger States taking money from producing Union States but don't wish for States to have the ability to keep more of their tax dollars.

You Sir are a barrel of laughs.

posted by dbw8906 on Nov 21, 2011 at 07:38:32 pm     #  

dbw8906 posted at 06:38:32 PM on Nov 21, 2011:

wait you bitch about States giving away "incentives" but then you rail on people who want to end public dollars for private companies. Then bitch about them Teabagger States taking money from producing Union States but don't wish for States to have the ability to keep more of their tax dollars.

You Sir are a barrel of laughs.

I don't deny it, nor do I deny my own hypocrisy. However, unlike 99% of the media and moderate/independent voters, I'm not going to let the TeaOP/right wing get away with theirs without calling it out.

posted by anonymouscoward on Nov 21, 2011 at 07:48:18 pm     #  

WBSPD Koch suckers!

Yes it amazes me that after the November 8th election that had issue 2 go up in flames they, the Koch suckers across the country, start pushing right-to-work. These media shills must be going to national Rush Limpball orgies filling their minds with.....

posted by wolfman on Nov 22, 2011 at 02:04:07 am     #  

The doofists at WBSPD think its all is caused by workers making too much and we all need to work for less (right-to-work). This line of thinking has our economy in the tank causing federal, state, and local tax revenues to fall in lock step. So the "geniuses" at Speedy think we need more of the same less disposable income more imports from overseas. How stupid is this line of thinking? Our economy is suffering from global trade that has forced the American economy to compete with economic practices of a hundred years ago. No health and safety, no environmental protection, no living wages for the majority, no restriction on child labor, and no large middle class. This is what unregulated free trade has brought to America over the past thirty years. To blame unions is just BS, a diversion by the growing 1% to have total control of ALL Americans. Union influence is dwarfed by the huge money that is being spent to control the political process. Just look at what one man corporate lobbyist G. Norquist has done with his anti tax pledge and our super committee deficit talks. The big money of the 1% won the day which will cause huge problems for all average working Americans.

posted by wolfman on Nov 22, 2011 at 10:32:41 am     #   1 person liked this

I seem to recall one President Dubya giving us all checks so we could spend them to stimulate the economy, or something. Funny how the entire GOP was all for that. But anything else given directly to the people is "welfare", and demanding that something is done about the rich 1% getting richer and, dare I say it, trickling down some of that wealth so the rest of us have money to spend is pinko commie socialism.

The GOP relies on its base being too fucking stupid to spot the disconnect and cognitive dissonance between what they say and what they do.

posted by anonymouscoward on Nov 22, 2011 at 11:01:24 am     #   2 people liked this

You know I might actually listen to your guys drivel if you would tone down your rhetoric.

posted by Linecrosser on Nov 22, 2011 at 12:34:33 pm     #  

Linecrosser posted at 11:34:33 AM on Nov 22, 2011:

You know I might actually listen to your guys drivel if you would tone down your rhetoric.

BWAHAHAHAHHAAHHAahahhahahahahahahahha gasp gasp gasp HAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH

You want my rhetoric toned down... and you listen to Fox News and right-wing talk radio?

Good frigging grief, man.

posted by anonymouscoward on Nov 22, 2011 at 11:50:51 pm     #  

Speaking of Fox News rhetoric:

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/11/22/fox-news-host-megyn-kelly-calls-pepper-spray-a-food-product/

posted by anonymouscoward on Nov 22, 2011 at 11:53:16 pm     #  

"Pepper spray a food product"...too funny!!!

posted by wolfman on Nov 23, 2011 at 02:20:37 am     #  

So because you see others using bad words you figure its alright. We'll I hope you see someone jumping off a bridge too.

posted by Linecrosser on Nov 23, 2011 at 12:42:37 pm     #  

Keep on fucking that chicken, er I mean toeing that line, Republican Line-toer.

posted by anonymouscoward on Nov 23, 2011 at 09:02:38 pm     #  

Pinko commie lover = Coward

posted by Linecrosser on Nov 24, 2011 at 01:54:20 pm     #  

AC, go fart peas at the moon. Any reasonable points you might make are lost deep in your Moonbat gibberish.

Maggie Thurber and dbw8906 are pretty accurate here. It certainly is true enough that labor unions are needed in Ohio, but the stranglehold they have on labor opportunity has to be brought to an end. For instance...

When the rag droppers went on strike at Davis-Besse power station went on strike their complaint amounted to higher wages and better benefits. I would have very happy to have one of those jobs they didn't want and I'd have started work that same day. That's the kind of crap that has to cease, and that's why Ohio needs a right to work law.

The rest of the crap that labor unions get, like automatic deduction of dues and forced participation should become a thing of the past. Then we could see the economy in Ohio pick up a little.

posted by madjack on Nov 26, 2011 at 01:18:21 pm     #  

madjack posted at 12:18:21 PM on Nov 26, 2011:

AC, go fart peas at the moon. Any reasonable points you might make are lost deep in your Moonbat gibberish.

Maggie Thurber and dbw8906 are pretty accurate here. It certainly is true enough that labor unions are needed in Ohio, but the stranglehold they have on labor opportunity has to be brought to an end. For instance...

When the rag droppers went on strike at Davis-Besse power station went on strike their complaint amounted to higher wages and better benefits. I would have very happy to have one of those jobs they didn't want and I'd have started work that same day. That's the kind of crap that has to cease, and that's why Ohio needs a right to work law.

The rest of the crap that labor unions get, like automatic deduction of dues and forced participation should become a thing of the past. Then we could see the economy in Ohio pick up a little.

You want to work at Davis-Besse? The power plant where they decided not to do adequate inspections and bent the NRC into allowing them to run past their shutdown deadline, and only inspected the reactor head because the NRC ordered them to due to the nozzle cracking issue at other plants? The one which was what, 3/16" of buckling stainless steel away from a Loss Of Coolant Accident and melting the fuck down? You magically trust WorstEnergy to work in your best interests as an employee and that they'll follow every single OSHA and NRC guideline?

You Teatards ARE fucking nuts.

posted by anonymouscoward on Nov 26, 2011 at 05:27:26 pm     #