Legal Advice

I'd contact an attorney... like tomorrow morning.

absolutely not. you need to contact a lawyer ASAP

Agreed - contact a lawyer.

First of all, there's no excuse for them to administer that sort of beating to a customer. You can safely remove someone from the premises without breaking that person's face!

And, to answer another question you had...a bar is supposed to be careful to not over-serve patrons. (Yes, of course, there is a level of personal responsibility involved as well. However, the bar is supposed to ensure that patrons don't get overly stinking drunk as well...this is why the bar got in trouble for the Mike Gagnon incident. When I worked in a bar throughout college, we were given annual education updates by the local police regarding when a patron needs cut off.)

You are going to want witnesses, and as much documentation in your favor as possible. Record what people say, and who said it.

The owner of the place is the one with the most at risk when a situation gets out of control. The owner should have sober security on duty to handle such situations.

Most owners are keenly aware that lawsuits happen even if a facility follows all the rules and the staff makes prudent decisions. Why an owner would invite a lawsuit is beyond me.

Did the police charge anyone at the bar for the beating?

Have you filed a police report or has someone else filed one? Make sure one has been filed that gives your version of events and do it ASAP.

When you get an attorney ask him/her if Liquor Control should be contacted. That's a heck of nasty Christmas present you got there. I certainly hope your son fully recovers, and quickly.

As others have said, your son definitely needs an attorney. If Sylvania isn't too far to travel, I VERY HIGHLY recommend Jack Brady at Brady, Coyle and Schmidt. He's experienced and good at this type of thing. He's an agressive advocate and not overpriced. Not cheap mind you, but not overpriced.

If its still possible try to have a good holiday.

I am so sorry, I hope your son heals quickly.

I hope your son pulls through ok. it may be fortunate that the bar owner is a bigger idiot than your son. Apparently your son had one too many and had a little trouble handling it well. However the bar owner had no business rouhging him up and will certainly have to pay dearly for getting so out of control. He should have restrained your son and called the police. If you get the right lawyer not only will your sons medical bills and loss of work be paid, but this ought to be worth another $200,000 for pain and suffering. Also I think the bar owner will probably spend several weeks in jail. He ought to lose his liquor license over this too. I hope there are enough witnesses to verify the whole story.

Something like this actually happened to a friend of mine. Turns out...it wasnt true.

He was drunk and his buddy beat him up (fractured eye socket, lost vision in the eye, fractured sinus, broken nose) - he didnt want to get his buddy in trouble and said someone else did it.

We figured something was up when he refused to press charges...

How was your son planning on getting home after getting that intoxicated? If he was with (sober) friends who were planning on driving home, can they provide witness statements?

Yes legal advice is necessary. Your son might actually need an attorney. details are kind of sketchy... he started a disturbance? Can that be translated to he started a fight? Was the owner trying to break up a fight in his establishment and your son threw an elbow? I tended bar for several years and saw things like that often. If a bar owner was trying to break up a fight and caught an elbow in the nose for his trouble, who's to say if this is over for your son yet... Good luck to the both of you. Lets pray this is a final straw and your son doesnt get himself into situations like that any more no matter WHO is at fault. There are many men out there who will look back at a good ass kickin' as a turning point. Lets pray this is one of them.

Oh, and by the way, keep us posted...

What bar? Search the bar's name on the county (Lucas? Wood?) clerk of courts web site, and find out if they have been sued before. Maybe contact an attorney that has sued that bar in the past and ask some questions.

I sure don't condone or defend my kid for his stupid choices, but what he did just doesn't seem to me to justify what happened. From what I've been able to gather so far, the dispute involved a bar tab. There was no fight inside the bar. Kiddo doesn't remember anything about what happened. He's been very groggy and slept most of the day today. He has also had blood draining from his sinuses all day. He had friends with him who witnessed the event. One said a bouncer dragged him outside and slammed him to the concrete and that he was unconscious when the owner administered the beating. It happened at Bigz at DeVeaux Village and I have the bar owner's name. From what I've been told, there have been other similar incidents at this particular bar. I'll be on this first thing tomorrow morning.

Ugh...I surely hope your son makes a full recovery. From what you've reported, sounds like your son got the raw end of the deal.

I hope he has credible witnesses to back him up!

As a side note...I've heard bigz has gotten really rough lately.

This really has nothing to do with liquor law / dram shop liability. It is pretty simple: was your son assaulted by this individual and if so, was the bar owner acting in self defense (which I am sure would be his contention). A "he said, he said" kind of thing, only this is worse because most of the parties were intoxicated. Maybe you will get lucky and there is surveillance video. Are the police involved?

Does Ken Pompora own Bigz? That just crossed my mind that at one time, I had heard that he was involved somehow. If he's the one that beat your son up, it doesn't surprise me at all and you might have a pretty good case.

"It happened at Bigz at DeVeaux Village and I have the bar owner's name. From what I've been told, there have been other similar incidents at this particular bar."

Shortly after the Ohio State-Michigan football game ended, I patronized Zavotski's, which is located next door to Bigz. Before entering the store, I saw a schnockered Buckeye fan sprawled on the asphalt outside Bigz. He babbled incoherently. Based upon his extreme drunkenness and battered face, I assumed that he tripped and kissed the parking lot. But I learned inside Zavotski's that the bouncer had bounced the slug out of Bigz. When I left Bigz, Rocky was upright but staggering and yelling toward Bigz, threatening something. His "friends" or handlers were holding him back or trying to control him, but I think a good shadow would have knocked him down again. As I drove off, TPD raced past me, heading in the opposite direction toward Bigz, although I don't know if that's where the police wound up going.

Yes, I've been told Ken Pompora is the man who assaulted my son, and I'm hearing some pretty bad things from different sources about him that I won't mention here. Surveillance video is useless. I know these places destroy video evidence and lie to the police. That's why witnesses will be so important. I'm going to pursue this like a dog with a bone. I will contact the police and find a good attorney. Because of the severity of the injuries, I'm thinking felony assault at the least. My son is going to have thousands upon thousands of dollars in medical bills and has no insurance. I will check it out, but I've also been told there are pending lawsuits against Bigz. They can count on another one.

I have heard that the guy that owns the place is a "Juice Head" as in steroids and the main clientelle are body builder type folks. Hope your son will recover quickly. Dr Kessler is an excellent Plastic Surgeon. Merry Christmas,huh?

I would probably stop posting anything about it on a public forum.

I agree with Slowsol. Anything said here can be subpoenaed and used in court.

If Ken does have something to do with it, it wouldn't surprise me. He's a major douche and I can't stand the guy from my Jed's days. My dad came close to whoopin his ass a few times too.

Blast from the pass -
http://www.toledotalk.com/cgi-bin/tt.pl/article/76228

Interesting...
http://www.northwestohio.com/news/story.aspx?id=195704#.TuWG1fF5mSM

Looks like the guy may still be on probation...

so let me get this straight. Your son drinks too much and acts like an idiot, gets beat up and now you want to sue the bar owner for "over serving" him?

This is exactly what is wrong with society. Why not have your son, who must be an adult by age, but not by behavior, take some responsibility for his actions? I'm not sure the version you heard was actually 100% correct. Who is this "witness"? A friend of your son's?

Good luck finding anyone to testify against the bar owner. Life's best lessons are hardest learned. Your son just got a crash course.

Just for grins, lets assume the following is true.

A man gets shit faced in a bar, gets beligerant and the owner of the bar that over serves the shit faced drunk takes him outside and beats his face into a mass of fractures.

This is NOT OK. Or legal. Its a seroius liquor violation and a felony assault charge.

And about the bar owner Ken Pompora, the line of people testifying to his good character will be a short one indeed, if any at all.

Go to hell, Hockey. One or two more well placed kicks and I could be planning a funeral.

Yeah, I'm the bad guy because I posted about how irresponsible your son was in his actions.

1-what exactly was the "disturbance"? Did he hit a woman? Maybe he grabbed a woman?
2-How was junior going to get home if he was so drunk? Did he have a designated driver with him? The same individual that gave you the story?
3-The comment "sonny elbowed the guy". Seems a little downplayed isn't it? Are you talking about a nudge or a full blown nose breaking elbow?
4-it's probably going to come down to his word against another and a drunk doesn't make a good witness

Whatever the real story is, my response comes from watching so many idiots get drunk and act even worse. Then, once they sobered up, denying or not even remembering what they did. The beating your son took might not be deserved, but before you get all pitchfork and torched towards the bar owner, you might want to find out exactly what went on. If this bar owner is as much trouble as people have posted on here and is still in business, he either has a great attorney that gets him off the hook, or he just doesn't care about what happens. Either way, your son is in for long hard road to recovery. Good luck.

I'm sure your attorney will inform you to do the same later today, but hopefully you filed a police report of the incident. The sooner the better.

I also agree with the advice slowsol posted. Good luck and hopefully your son recovers and learns from this mistake. Many of us have done ignorant things while drinking. There is no glory in beating up a drunk, and hopefully your son ends up gaining monetary damages from the assholes that severely injured him.

Wow, hockeyfan - picking up trolling slack for Ryan are you? So getting drunk and acting like an ass is capital crime to you?

BigZ's is real bad news. I tried going there a couple of times because it's in pretty close proximity to my house and I'm too cheap to pay for boxing Pay Per Views, but it's full of wannabe UFC fighters and everyone in there is wearing a "Tap Out" tee shirt and looking to show off their skillz. It's the West Toledo juice heads bar de jure, and the bouncers are not the friendliest of people. The place is a powder keg waiting to go off.

My cousin came into town and we went do there for a fight and I don't know the pre-existing conditions of said occurrence but it ended with bouncer throwing a drunkard head first into a car. I know bouncers are not "your buddy" but these guys seem to be looking for trouble and enjoy finding it.

But I have little sympathy for anyone who can't handle their booze and begins a physical confrontation.

Plus I'm know they have security cameras, sequester the tape.

1.) Was this young man planning to drive home in such an inebriated state? I haven't seen an answer yet.

If so, while I am sympathetic to his pain and suffering, the possibility that he could have killed someone on the road (for example: driving the wrong way) really negates an outpouring of support for him.

2.) I've never been a violent drunk, so I can't say what goes on in the brain of someone who is. However, from observation of others and my own uncle, it is a bad, bad path to go down. He needs help. After some recovery, your son needs alcohol treatment. Now. This may be difficult to hear, but if he is an asshole when he gets some (or a lot of) drinks in him, something like this will happen again--and as you said SM, a couple more well placed kicks and you could be planning a funeral.

He needs to quit booze and he will need help. And it will be difficult. I hope he can do it.

3.) Plus I'm know they have security cameras, sequester the tape.

If that tape still exists, they are dumber than I thought. And I think you'd want to subpeona the tape...not sequester it.

A note to dbw8906:

If you want to use French to show us how sophisticated we are here in Toledo please note that the correct expression is du jour, which you can find on most menus as is soup du jour.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_jure

Thus, Egypt was by Ottoman law de jure a province of that empire

As in Thus, Big Z was by Juice Head law de jure a province of that empire

lol

OHT - Here's an answer and a different perspective on the matter.

1. Who cares what his intents on driving were? Such intent is not at issue here. Do you want to pre-arrest people for being in a situation where a person could possibly be hurt? It appears to me as though your sympathy is bullshit, because he could have hurt someone. I don't think that's a fair approach.

2. How can you recommend immediate alcohol treatment for someone you knew nothing of until the original post yesterday. All any reader knows for sure is that he got drunk and was involved in an altercation. It's way premature to recommend counseling of any type. Get off yo high horse.

Life is filled with options and choices and each of us lives the life that is the sum total of the decisions and choices made through their life. Some good, some bad.

3. You're 100% right with the subpoena. It's nice to find some mutual ground.

Some of the logic presented here is "Let's beat intoxicated people because, being intoxicated, they may get into a car and drive drunk." Amazing.

How about this logic? "The bar doesnt turn a profit from over serving intoxicated individuals because, being intoxicated, they may get into a car and drive drunk."

Then if somebody walks in already drunk and the drunk gets beligerant, the bouncers can safely call the police and get this drunk locked up for the night. The bar doesn't have anything to hide. No laws broken and nobody gets hurt.

shortysmom- Hang in there.

Although I'm not an attorney, I believe the law that applies is called 'excessive force'. For instance, assume that HockeyFan discovers me letting the air out of his tires in the wee hours of the morning. He yells the traditional WTF? and I attempt to run away. Should he assist my departure with a swift kick or two to my ample behind, he's on safe ground - both literally and legally. However, should HockeyFan pick up the traditional blunt instrument of choice and whale the daylights out of me, sending me to the hospital, he'll likely be arrested, cuffed and stuffed. Sure, I'm still guilty of criminal trespass and a host of other things, but that does not provide a built in excuse for good old HockeyFan to rearrange my map.

I hate dealing with drunks. They are often belligerent and prone to making a mess in my car. They tend to be mouthy, mainly when they ought to shut up and sit quietly. All that said, I wouldn't want to see anyone beaten up the way Sonny was. I hope you consult with a good attorney and I also hope Sonny is a lot more careful about where he goes drinking in the future.

It seems MadAnthony should have accepted DBW8906's post ad pedem litterae.

1. Who cares what his intents on driving were? Such intent is not at issue here. Do you want to pre-arrest people for being in a situation where a person could possibly be hurt? It appears to me as though your sympathy is bullshit, because he could have hurt someone. I don't think that's a fair approach.

The legal issue is the beating. My sympathy (or anyone's) is an emotional reaction which is on an individual level. I don't have sympathy for someone who gets rip-roaring drunk and then intends to drive home afterward (as I too drive through that neighborhood). I do have sympathy that he got the crap kicked out of him while unconscious which is completely out of line, over-the-top, and needs to be punished.

2. How can you recommend immediate alcohol treatment for someone you knew nothing of until the original post yesterday. All any reader knows for sure is that he got drunk and was involved in an altercation. It's way premature to recommend counseling of any type. Get off yo high horse.

Let me describe my high horse.

My high horse has my uncle's dead body on it. My high horse has my father and I dragging him out of bars at 1AM, bailing him out of jail, seeing the wounds from another bar fight (swollen shut black eyes, broken nose, one broken arm). My high horse has him struggling with a lifetime of this behavior, followed by legal and medical problems...but get treatment?: "Hell no!"

My high horse has us finding him choked to death (from his own vomit) on his couch at the age of 46. Too old to do that drinkin' and fighting shit. My high horse has me seeing my father cry for the only time ever. My high horse carries its burden.

<sigh>

But you know what? Screw it. I take it all back, SM, on the recommendation of jimavolt (and now I see, holland). Your son simply had an asshole beat him up. No problems with alcohol. No problems with being a "chippy" or belligerent drunk. No problems whatsoever. Premature on my part to show concern that he may need more than just his bones healed...that maybe this "life lesson" should inspire him to cut down or eliminate alcohol from his life. Chalk this event up to "life experience" (jimavolt's summary). Chalk my response up to "I just want people beaten because they may drive home drunk" (holland's summary). Yeah, that's exactly what I meant, holland <rolls eyes>.

I'm apparently way too judgmental and biased due to my own experience with a beautiful person, whom I loved growing up, becoming a belligerent drunk when he drank and the heartache, heartbreak, and ulcer-inducing worry, fear, and devastation it caused. Not that you'd know anything about that because there is nothing here to indicate any of that.

It's all my fault for posting. I'm the asshole. Thanks for (not) listening.

Enjoy your holidays and a speedy recovery to the young man.

Happy Holidays to you too oldhometown.

oldhometown- "It's all my fault for posting. I'm the asshole. "

Finally got something right!

Oldhome, I'm sorry about what you went through. It's a special kind of strangeness when the bad drunk is also a lovable guy when sober. If people grow up hating a relative who's a jerk all the time, it's easier to deal with in the future.

I find myself sometimes reacting very defensively about childhood situations that can never be changed. I would like to drain that source of negativity from my life ... maybe you could think about that, too.

It seems to me that Shorty is young enough to be at the beginning of his learning curve regarding drinking and hanging around in bars (and walking away, etc.) A young man I work with once visited a strip club, had one drink (he claims), and woke up on a stranger's front porch with the police handcuffing him. He learned some stuff from that experience!

I think you people worried more about whether or not her son was going to drive, have focused in the wrong place.

The bar tape is likely long gone after every altercation which they are the bad guys. If he was drinking on a tab, and he paid the bill with a debit/credit card, now there is some solid evidence. If he has frequented this place and has rang up large bills drinking there, it's obvious they aren't doing what they are supposed to do...cut people off that are very drunk. If a patron gets beaten to a pulp at a liquor establishment, the owner has some liability.

It doesn't matter what the "be responsible for your own actions" crowd thinks about it...bar owners and staff have liability hanging over their heads.

I don't want a reply from shortysmom until her son's case has finished. Hopefully, he has a check in her hand or one or more of these goons spends some time in the slammer.

Shorty, regardless whether or not criminal charges are filed, that bar has some sort of liability coverage to pay for "accidents." If it doesn't, they really are fools. The owner of the property, likely a different person/entity, also likely has some insurance similar to a homeowners policy.

Your son likely has a claim against the bar for his medical bills.

If their tape has "disappeared" it further points to them hiding something. The place already has an established track record of violence.

Whoa, no one is saying the beating was justified because sonny was going to drive home drunk, or because he was drunk, or any other reason.

My point is in response to the original post. The original post seems to have a "victim" tone to it and while downplays the sons actions and behaviors, tells the story about how her innocent son was served too much alcohol and then was dragged outside and beaten.

In my experience, I've never seen a well behaved sober person grabbed from their seat, taken outside and beaten for no reason.

Like I asked in my post:
What was the disturbance he speaks of inside the bar? While beating a man senseless while defenseless has no excuse, I can think of a handful of things that would get me pissed enough to beat someone. And believe me, it would take a lot more than just letting the air out of my tires. I'm a level headed guy to a point.
Also, the original post says, "he elbowed the guy". Again, there is a wide range of "elbows". I've nudged people with my elbow to get their attention. I have also seen "elbows" that could break boards/noses/ribs.
Most importantly, her entire account is based on what? Sonny's drunk account (which she says he is too drunk to defend himself, so the account must be true), or, a friend that was probably as drunk as he was. Rarely do friends go out and one gets completely wasted while the other is completely sober. Usually they either both get hammered, or the more sensible one watches out for the other. Either way no one knows for sure. Then, the story says he was beaten repeatedly. Not that it would justify it, but if said "drunk" continued to run his mouth after the disturbance, and during the elbow and escorting out, he only fueled the fire.
Like I said, getting beat/kicked while on ground isn't right, I'm thinking sonny had something to do with provoking it.
And in case you still want to look at sonny as a good little innocent boy, I asked what his plans were to get home. Not because getting beaten is justified if you plan on driving drunk, but because if he's careless enough to drive drunk, then he's probably careless in other areas of his behavior.
Before I can accurately pass judgement, I'm wondering if this is sonny's only alcohol incident. I personally don't care what happened to him. I do feel bad for him and his mother, but I'm not ready to blame everyone except him for what happened like he was an innocent victim minding his own business, then got plucked out of the crowd to get beaten.

How about not passing judgement all together?

oldhometown- "It's all my fault for posting. I'm the asshole. "

Finally got something right!

Classy as always, SensorG...

I'm not passing judgement. I'm trying to get the facts. Before I buy a ticket for the "poor little sonny" sympathy train, I'd like to find out if this was a unfortunate and unprovoked attack, or one that was fueled by the actions, words, and behaviors of an irresponsible drunk.

What I find even more shameful is that unless sonny was alone, his friend/friends stood by and watched this happen. Definately someone worthy of a Christmas card this year.

Geezus, hockeyfan, nothing justifies a beating. No matter what words he used, nothing, legally, justifies a beating. I don't know what you mean by "actions" or "behaviors," but unless those arise to an assault, only self-defensive reactions of the bar owner would be justified. Getting kicked in the head while down on the pavement is a crime, no matter how you cut it.

Sorry to hear about the situation with your son shortysmom. I'll refrain from commenting on the legality issue (I'm not a lawyer). I think everyone makes good points above, even the people who's points may sound harsh. Taken collectively there are many things to consider.

I will mention that if this is [not the first incident] with your son then you might have more important long term issues to deal with then just attending to the scrapes and bruises incurred from this melee. I've known many people who's lives spun out of control who, even after similar situations as you describe still continued to go down a dark path of destruction. I've also known some people who had a wild youth streak and straightened themselves out without assistance. There are places such as Al-Anon for family members and AA for people with problems.

Again, not pointing fingers just saying if the pattern is there and a problem is getting worse any severence received as a result from this beat down will not mend the problems your son is having "if" he needs help and unfortunately that could mean that last evenings beat down might be even less painful then what is in store. - I hope not.

Good Luck.

Well I guess I sounded like an asinus ad lyram on that one.
Apologies to dbw8906 for a classic case of damnant quod non intelligunt.

Nothing justifies a beating? I can make a list of things that would piss me off enough to beat the hell out of someone. Many of them aren't self defense. They may or may not be a legal defense, but still they would cause me to beat the hell out of someone. That being said, kicking someone in the head and/or face while they are virtually passed out on the ground, you're right. A crime. But, once again, is that what really happened? No one on here knows for sure at this point.
I rarely hear of innocent people getting grabbed and thrown out of bars because they were obeying the rules.
Everything in the original post might be right and that would be a shame and a crime. Let's find out the details before the lynch mob forms and swings the rope.

HF, places like Bigz always have wannabe tough guys roaming around looking to take advantage of someone.

The guy that beat up her son didn't have any reason to kick him while he was on the ground, and especially drunk beyond being able to defend himself.

Likely the mf has been bragging how he "kicked the shit" out of some guy with his chest stuck out. Personally, I hope the guy winds up serving some time and paying some money out of his pocket. I'd like to see how far his chest is stuck out when he receives the court date letter.

He would have gotten more of a fight out of a bag of potatoes than a wasted drunk. As an owner, he could have shown the guy the door, if he resisted and tried to make a scene, maybe a shove to the ground and told not to return ever again. Instead he chose to act like a goon.

We have laws on the books against beating someone, to top it off, a customer, within an inch of death. If shortysmom's family handles this correctly, they can see to it that some of his time and plenty of his money disappear.

If you haven't already SM, get several photos for court.

meh no harm, no foul as I found it in one of my wife's "smart books" the other day (as opposed to the technical manuals and 1970's Mad magazines strewn about my office). Slept through 2 years of French.

"Nothing justifies a beating? I can make a list of things that would piss me off enough to beat the hell out of someone. Many of them aren't self defense. They may or may not be a legal defense, but still they would cause me to beat the hell out of someone."

HF: You are essentially making a list of things that would get you charged with assault. If that is OK with you, I won't challenge you on your personal belief system.

Well. Hockeyfan, you can give either the douche bag Pompora the goon with a proven record of whores, tax evasion, minors, gun possession, and drug abuse or a drunk 20 something benifit of the doubt.

I guess we know which side your on. Must of had you at Tapout shirt.

By the what is the list of offenses you have for kicking the faces of passed out guys in front of bars.

What kind of owner beats a customer nearly to death? I mean unless this kid had a weapon and was trying to assault the owner or other patrons, the owner has some explaining to do. If you own a bar, I would think you would have a protocol that you follow to deal with unruly or belligerently drunk patrons. Beating the shit out of the drunk, obnoxious patron and then KICKING HIM IN THE HEAD as he lays on the ground, would not be what I call proper protocol.

I am very hesitant to agree with or come to the side of HF, but I didn't read him say the kid deserved the beating. In fact, he specifically stated more than once that the beating was unjustified regardless of what the kid did. But, he is also pretty accurate when he says that it is unlikely that the story recounted is 100% fact. I have never heard two intoxicated people retell a story without pretty important 'factual' differences. Most of those stories don't involve beatings and possible criminal charges. So, even when the events are benign, drunk people can't get their stories right.

A little concerned about comments insinuating that a drunk person is somehow lame or defenseless. Prisons are filled with people who have committed terrible acts of savagery while inebriated (no offense intended shortysmom). Remember the recent incident about 200 yards away from this ruckus where a person head-butted an officer and stole a police car. I'm not too quick to judge any party in this matter but often drunk people are more dangerous than sober people. There reflexes may not be as sharp but they are unpredictable. I have been in places where a person was getting way out of hand and required being neutralized so they had no ability to grab a bottle, throw a punch or assault anyone. I was glad they were neutralized. (certainly there are situations where a person goes over the line but we don't really have those facts) I just want to address the insinuation that a drunk person is somehow harmless and defenseless. – not the case.

I appreciate everyone's concern. For those worried about drinking and driving, my son doesn't drive. He's never had a license and has never been interested in getting one despite my nagging over the years.

There are more and more young people delaying getting a driver's license, or not getting one at all these days. Hope he's better today. And you too mom.

Is that really true? More and more young people aren't getting a license. How in the world could you get back and forth to work and college? Or, is it because they don't work or go to school?
Please don't tell me that they are using Tarta.

Mommy drives them.

Is that really true? More and more young people aren't getting a license.

Yes it is true, many young adults can't afford a car and insurance,or want to save money for something decent. My son doesn't have a license, he walked to work, of course he did get his temps, but being deployed threw that out of the window for now.

Sensor did you read all the posts? He said list of things that would warrant a beating and then also said in same post but not kicking in the face while on ground unconsience. I'm sure there are things that would justify a couple good punches, maybe not in court, but once you knock someone down or unconscience to continue is just wrong. Sorry to hear about your Kid Mom.

Just a side note, Ken Pompora is quite popular in the County Court records with lawsuits still active over his involvement with Jed's, Metropolis, Ole Taco, Urban Active Gym, and the infamous BIGZ

Just one reason why I don't frequent bars. Seems there's too many people who fit into the following equation, "them + alcohol = instant asshole."
Of course the beating (as far as we were told) was unjustified. The offender should be charged. However, I bristle when I read about people blaming a bar for THEM drinking too much. Take some responsibility for your actions.

Just an FYI after doing a quick search...

http://www.toledoblade.com/local/2005/08/23/Legal-problems-join-menu-for-2-local-bars-their-owner.html

One of my (old) businesses also got stuck with some of Jed's bad checks. Back then Pompora had some decent people working for him in managing, or trying to manage, the bars. They did make the checks good eventually, (months) but not because Pompora was willing.

While trying to collect I heard the RUMOR repeatedly that (back then) it was a big nose candy problem. Mind you this was a RUMOR. I never saw any proof. With all his legal problems and convictions I have a hard time understanding how he can be legally incolved in a business that sells liquor. Apparently he's gotten around that somehow.

"I have a hard time understanding how he can be legally incolved in a business that sells liquor."

From the September 2008 story that SensorG linked to above:

What's the definition of the following above phrases?

• "not able to engage in any business venture"
• "five years of community control"

Holland I can tell you it isn't a rumor. Chris Frick also had a nose candy problem. I was at a few Jed's closed bar parties and they would do it right on the bar.

Oh wow. Pompora did once have some people working with/for him that were really decent and honest. Over time, he pretty much screwed everybody. It seems the drug use was just an extension of a person who, even without a drug problem, has no integrity.

Yeah I knew pretty much all the waitresses and bartenders at the Maumee and p-burg jeds. I can't remember which one it was but the girls showed up for work and the doors had a "closed for business" sign. No one ever told them they were closing.

Gee, first this yo-yo gets numerous chances after screwing up and then Andrew Z. I see a trend here.

Yup. Shit floats.

Ken Pompora is/was a coke head - no doubt about it

shortysmom - how's your son doing? Can you comment on any legal action going on?

I hope your son was able to make it home for the holidays.

Shortysmom, I some how missed this whole posting in December. I hope your son is feeling better.

He's doing okay. Thanks for asking. He was only hospitalized overnight. There's nothing much you can do for the kind of fractures he has. He decided contacting the police is probably a waste of time. We found out a TPO outside the bar witnessed the incident and did nothing but call for the ambulance. An acquaintance of his got the same treatment a couple weeks ago. I still want him to talk to an attorney because he has no health insurance and the medical bills so far are close to $14,000 with more to come. I'll update as things develop.

It's not too late to file a report. Your son really should consider doing it.

THIS!!!

OH BIGZ! YOU CAN FEEL THE ROIDS IN THE AIR THERE! ALSO I WILL NEVER FORGET THE ONE TIME WE WENT THERE WE SAW A RAT COME OUT FROM THE SIDE OF THE BUILDING AND RUN ACROSS THE STREET. LOL

Is it possible that Sonny wasn't quite such a victim as he claims?

If so, the apologies to hockeyfan should begin. This point is essentially what all HF's posts in this thread were about.

To wit:

hockeyfan: Before I buy a ticket for the "poor little sonny" sympathy train, I'd like to find out if this was a unfortunate and unprovoked attack, or one that was fueled by the actions, words, and behaviors of an irresponsible drunk.

The beating was administered after my son had already been knocked unconscious by the bouncer. Under what circumstances is this ever okay?

Never

Yes, never. So charges need to be pressed and you need to contact a lawyer to see about collecting damages to cover the medical expenses. 2k of attorney's fees hurts a lot less than 14k of unpaid medical bills.

Any witnesses who weren’t intoxicated?

I would get the name of the TPO that called the ambulance. Must be friends of Pompass or his buddies but lets see him get up in court and lie for the guy.

Was there sunday Jan 8, got kicked out, I guess having to much fun. Left and decided to return, parked by Buckeye Cable and the bouncers see and chase me, i run towards the police station on Sly, run across street in the backyard of a house. They found me and they had fun. They carried me back 5 guys and hold me on the ground. Cops came i ended getting arrested for DC. Almost was let go but our favorite off duty cop insisted i be arrested. I was hit with some object, mased, hit repeatedly, and while on ground had a foot on my throut. I plead no contest, $100 fine $100 court cost. I plan on doing nothing, its a life lesson. I way to old to be doing stuff like this. Just thought I'd drop my 2 cents.

They chased you, caught you, beat you, carried you back and then had you arrested? WTF?

I know, should have never went back. I didnt go to work all week due to the fact my left side of my face was hit w/ something and a nice black eye, and countless scraps cuts and brusies all over my body. I use to bounce so when you give these guys any opportunity to do something like this, it game on, but really to chase me that far..?

Car was towed too, $155 for that and two flat/slashed tires, tow to my house $60.

I just hope "Karma" does me some good, I really want to get even but there not worth it.

And the home owner of referenced backyard didn't hear 5 guys beating on you? Next time yell RAPE!

I live near that shopping center - drive by it every day. I work out at Fitness 19, and patronize Zavotski's meats all the time...

But with all these comments, I cant see why anybody'd want to go into that bar!! Not considering there are alternatives you dont hear stories like this about within - what? a mile?

Whooop, whoooop, whoooop, the BS alarm is going off.

-thrown out for no reason
-ran over half a mile being chased by 5 guys
-caught and carried back
-beat up while off-duty cop stands by and watches

Once again, this all could have been avoided if you just left when thrown out the first time. Why you chose to go back and engage in a chase is beyond me.
I'd like to get some other versions of that story.

So let me get this straight Kwi... you go to a bar in December get too intoxicated and cause a disturbance. You are escorted out of the bar whereupon you elbow the owner. At that time you get pummeled for your actions to the point that you earn a fractured eye socket.

Not enough though... You return to the bar a month later and get kicked out again. I'm going to make a wild assumption that alcohol was a facture, please beg my pardon if I am incorrect. Now that you have been evicted from the bar without taking a beating you still are not satisfied and decide to return tat evening and incite more mayhem thus earning... a second beating and more monetary damages.

You've determined at this stage that all of this is "A life lesson" and you are way to old to be doing this stuff. I for one ... disagree. I think you are making headway. I mean look, you obviously were not beaten as bad the second time as you were the first. I think a third attempt is probably going to be where you see real progress being made. Seriously, don't quit now... Insanity has been defined as doing the same thing and expecting a different result. That's obviously not the case here... Get back in there young man!

Is Kwi50 ShortysMom's son, ie Shorty? I didn't read it that way. I read it a new guy, new incidence.

That was my assumption when I read:

"I know, should have never went back. I didn’t go to work all week due to the fact my left side of my face was hit w/ something and a nice black eye"

I thought that was in reference to the damage incurred on the first visit and "should have never went back" referred to going back again.

I read it as him going back after a Jan. 8th indecent...

Either way, these guys should hold their liquor better and this bar is a train wreck like every other Ken Pompora property ever...

idiot bar owner + people who can't control themselves with alcohol = perfect storm

while the police are mentioned a few times in this thread, i'm highly suspicious of any police that would watch this sort of stuff happen and not do anything.

Losers. Bar degenerate loser.

Idiot has no health insurance. Enjoy paying $14000+ for being an asshole.

wow

kwi50 is not my son. Neither, for that matter, is shorty. He's my chihuahua.

Wait a minute!! somebody beat up a Chihuahua???

that would make sense tho... the running thru the yards... the broken eye sockets (they have those big bug eyes anyway...) cops doing nothing - our dog catcher has a record of that, probably lucky he wasnt just put down!!

One stern look, huh? Who are you trying to kid, me or you? What you really meant to say was that while you were evicting two, the third took up residence and gave you the old melting brown eyes, too cute for words look, so when you threatened the dog with a rolled up newspaper Mrs. HistoryMike sided with the dog and threatened to put you outside where you belonged. Then when the situation escalated and the police showed up, Chauncey Gardner invited the SWAT team and their police dog in for pizza while you waited in the paddy wagon.

What I want to know is which dog took pity on you and let you out.

shorttsmom, you're putting up with all these comments very well, I must say, and I hope everything turns out ok for your son. Happy New Year!

these were 2 seperate incidents, to clear things up.

Decided to go to BigZ after El Camino last night. Never seen so many "bouncers" in one place. We had a group of about 12 and snagged one of the big tables to sit/stand around.

While we were there one guy got mouthy with a bouncer and he was politely escorted out. This happenned near our table. Afterwards, another guy came to our table and apologized for the small commotion.

We left around 1:30 and never witnessed anything else, perhaps they are turning over a new leaf

In my experience I've never seen a quiet, rule obeying person get dragged out, beaten to within an inch of their life for absolutely no reason. Usually alcohol taints the memory of the "victim".

Ken Pompora doesn't own Bigz. He is the front man for another felon named Jamie Deen who is the silent owner of a number of bars in Toledo. Deen served almost ten years in federal prison for cocaine trafficking and puts most of the bars in his sister's name. Neither of them should legally have anything to do with a liquor establishment but for some reason the officials don't care. Stories like this will be a recurring theme if these two are allowed to continue opening and operating bars in Toledo. The drug trade is red hot in Bigz and most of their staff is in on it. Look for a big bust sooner or later in the news. It can't go on forever.

I knew of the whole Jamie Deen front as well and his sister for the liquior permits. Found a new lawsuit as well.

http://lcapps.co.lucas.oh.us/onlinedockets/Docket.aspx?STYPE=1&PAR=CI201104569-000&STARTDATE=01/01/1900&ENDDATE=01/01/2100&PARTY=0

Make sure you look at the public documents at the top left corner!

Go Frick!!!

That has to be Chris Frick's dad. If it is nice guy from what I remember.

Where does the current Perrysburg Jed's (and other locations owned by the same people) come into play here? I know that they have nothing to do with Pompora or Frick, but how do they have the ability to operate under the Jed's name and trademark?

Before all this trouble I know Frick and Pompora were trying to Franchise the Jed's name. So they might have bought into the franchise.

"So they might have bought into the franchise." Correct, these are franchise locations.

Just an FYI- your favorite restaurateurs of Toledo our trying to take over South Toledo again…

http://www.star105toledo.com/index.php?fuseaction=home.display&id=3350

Star 105.5 St. Patty's Day Party!

Join Star 105.5 for our St. Patty's Day Party Saturday, March 17th! The party gets started at 5pm at Bigz Bar and Grill AND at 32 Degrees! You get TWO parties for the price of ONE! Take the free shuttle between each party to keep the party going! Listen to Star 105.5 for more details! From Bigz Bar and Grill, 32 Degrees, and Star 105.5!

Liquor License Info
2738269
FIRE PIZZA BAR LLC
5122 HEATHERDOWNS
TOLEDO, OH
43614
Member Name Shares Interest Office Held
0.00
DEANA DEEN 0.00 MANAGE MEM PRESIDENT

I figured he had something to do with it. Especially when I saw this:

REAL soon. LOL

Why anyone would want to drink 32 degree beer is beyond me. Are all the taps going to be malt liquor and ultra light beers?

A proper serving temperature for American adjunct style lagers (which is the typical beer served at places most appropriate to wear an Affliction T-shirt) is about 36-39 degrees.

yeah, that 4 degrees is really going to make people not want to drink. Seriously?

HF no but a room full of Affliction T-shirt will.

Actually, it is surprising how much a difference that 4 degrees makes on beverages. If you have a newer refrigerator (with digital temp controls), try turning it down that much, wait a few hours, then grab your favorite drink. Big difference in flavor and experience. Colder often = less flavor.

All that being said, the typical customer at a Bigz-type establishment is not likely to notice or care. They are far more worried about whether they remembered to DVR "Jersey Shore" before they left the trailer.

Colder beer does equal less flavor, so what better way to drink Bud Lite and Pabst Blue Ribbon Beer than as cold you can get it.

HF, people will want to drink it. I was merely pointing out that this place is blatantly pandering to those that think ice cold beer is better. Because of that, I know better than to give it a shot when one of my friends tells me there is a new bar at Reynolds and Heatherdowns.

BTW, is this place in the plaza right across from Trotter's?

Google shows it where Jed's use to be, give or take. I'll still take Trotter's everytime, that's my hangout bar.

It is located in the plaza to the north, across the street from Trotters. Saw the sign, it is right on the end, facing Heatherdowns.

Grab Me a Warm One

http://www.slate.com/articles/life/drink/2012/03/don_t_believe_coors_and_budweiser_colder_isn_t_better_.html

Sensor, I saw that last night too - it totally made me think of this discussion.

If beer tastes bad to you at 45 degrees its bad beer to begin with.