My kids said they have "heard" that there have been a rash of thefts in West Toledo in which small-to-medium sized dogs have been stolen, supposedly to use to train fighting dogs. I suspect this is an "urban myth", but just in case, has anyone else seen anything about this on the news anywhere?
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My fiancee mentioned something about it yesterday. Other than that, I've heard nothing.
Haven't heard anything either.
However, if someone stole my dog, there isn't a definition of "blind rage" strong enough to describe what I would feel and want to do to the perps...
Same here, oldhometown. But I'd like a bit more evidence (link to a news article or some such, as opposed to facebook rumors) before I get too concerned when I let my dog out in my back yard.
Damn. I hope they catch the bastards who are doing this. Utterly disgusting.
Agreed OHT. I consider myself to be someone who has a good knowledge of the law and what I can and can't do (owe trespassers degree of care, proportionate response, etc), but when it comes to a pet, I think rules would be out the window. I couldn't be too critical of anyone who reacted to it like it was their child being kidnapped.
pets are not considered property. thieves must know this. if someone is on your property you cannot just simply shoot them.
as far as it being a crime, yes it is a crime to steal. this is as bad as stealing from the elderly or disabled and i hope these fools get caught.
so dog owners just open the front door and let their dogs run wild. then wonder "where is fido? he hasnt been home all day." As a kid i would ride my bike and if i saw a stray dog i would bring it home everytime. I would put up lost and found poster and only one owner ever called up and came for their dog. as i got older i never understood how an animal can be part of a family and the family not miss him/her
I've seen a huge rise of "lost" and "stolen" dogs on craigslist. There also appears to be an increase in pit bulls "in need of a good home".
When I was looking for a home for Juno, the first people contacting me were obviously looking for a fighting or breeding dog. They had great stories to encourage me to adopt to them, but wouldn't agree to a home check. Actually, they'd hang up right when I mentioned it.
With the "demand" for pits being higher, I'd assume the abuse of is also on the rise - and the need for bait dogs as well.
*There is a FB page called "Toledo Area Lost and Found" that's stocked with rescuers, fosters, and all around animal lovers that may give you a better idea of the lost or stolen animals in the area.
good find dralionagogo.
i then read this:
"I went through the 475 split about 15 mins ago and there was a little fluffy black and shizhue (sp). It was too muddy to pull over and it's right at the congested turn :("
So post it to FB and then maybe someone else will save the dog from being crushed by a semi truck. some ppl are simply amazing
It absolutely breaks my heart to see a dog running loose near a roadway or, worse, dead on the road.
I realize dogs can get loose but think far too many get loose due to owner negligence.
Here comes skeptical hockeyfan:
6 dogs "stolen" from same neighborhood. So, let me get this straight. 6 dogs taken from backyards and none of the owners heard or saw anything unusual? No barking? No yelping? No nothing?
I can understand that some dogs don't bark when people approach, but all 6 dogs were perfectly quiet while being stolen? And how long are these dogs kept outside? I realize that it only takes a couple of seconds to take a dog, but you let your dog out, then bring him/her back in after a few minutes. Would have to be a pretty intense operation to be able to monitor when dogs are let out to just move in and steal dogs. Even if the dogs were kept outside full time, seems like something is missing here.
Sounds like another terroristic news story based on very loose facts.
"... but you let your dog out, then bring him/her back in after a few minutes."
You obviously never owned a dog. Many times the dog to remain outside tied up or within the fenced in yard for a lot longer than a few minutes.
Six dogs. Determined thieves would simply need to drive around a while to find six dogs that could be easily snatched, especially when dogs come to the fence.
Our 4-3/4 lb. Yorkie absolutely loves to wander our fenced back yard for extended periods of time, even in light snow or pretty chilly temperatures. I most often have to call her in, rather than find her at the back door waiting. She also is exceptionally friendly to strangers, kids and adults alike. She will hurl herself in your arms and lick your face in a frenzy if given the opportunity. She would be extremely easy to dognap. This whole thing scares the heck out of me.
I am also skeptical, at least right now. I'm on the FB group for the neighborhood where this is taking place, and thus far there have been no posts from anyone who had a dog come up missing or who even knows someone who had one come up missing. The only thing posted there was from the page that dralionagogo mentioned, and even that wasn't a direct source.
There have been several break-ins in the neighborhood over the past month and I think people around here are very jumpy right now and repeating stories that might not have any basis.
One thing I keep thinking about... my boyfriend did see a large hawk in our neighborhood a few times within the past few months. I've wondered if there's any possibility a small dog would be easy prey.
I've not only worked for the Humane Society, but have owned more than 6 dogs over the years. I agree that some didn't bark or make a fuss for strangers, but most did. I just can't believe that 6 "quiet" dogs lived in the same neighborhood and close enough for "dog thieves" to steal them.
What the dog "wants" is not always best for the dog. I am still the master and the owner. I do not let the dog do what it wants all the time. That applies to eating off the table, taking a dump in the livingroom and staying outside to carry-on as it pleases. It's called responsible pet ownership. And part of that is keeping my dogs safe by knowing what they are doing and where they are. My "quiet" dogs do not get left outside for however long they want. When they are outside, they are either watched, or timed so I know that nothing could happen. Leaving a quiet dog outside is asking for trouble. It could escape or even be "stolen".
"... my boyfriend did see a large hawk in our neighborhood a few times within the past few months. I've wondered if there's any possibility a small dog would be easy prey."
Red-tailed Hawk food:
From the 13abc story
Red-tailed Hawks hunt during the day.
A vicious night-time predator of small mammals is the Great-horned Owl. This owl will snatch small pets, like cats, but they're not good enough to remove a dog's collar at the scene of the grab.
From the book "Lives of American Birds" about the Great-horned Owl's eating habits:
According to the 13abc story, more than six dogs have been taken.
Before reading the 13abc story, I jokingly thought it was coyotes taking the dogs. But the 13abc story states:
I believe human thieves are the likely reason why the dogs are missing and not hawks, owls, nor coyotes.
But I may have to incite panic, anyway, by raising the Coyote Alert Status to black, which is the highest and worst level.
Last fall, thieves broke into some homes in our neighborhood during the day and stole big screen TVs. I would say that stealing small to medium size dogs at night is an easier and less risky endeavor.
BLACK ALERT STATUS?
Sweet Moses! Close your window sashes, bolt your doors, turn on your emergency broadcast system alert detector thingy.
Wind up your wind up flashlights and wait for further instructions.
Oh my hockeyfan - aren't we a bit on our high horse! My yard has a six foot privacy fence all the way around. It is roughly 40 × 50 ft and mostly out of view of the public. The Yorkie, though tiny, is true to her breed in temperment. They are terrier ratters who truely thrive in the outdoors. She's friendly by her own nature and by the fact that we worked to socialize her. I would no more deprive her of satisfying her basic breed instincts than I would try to make a left handed child a right hander. I work with a breed's particluar natural instinct (if the breed is known), not against it, whenever possible.
In the 40 years I have cared for dogs, I have had 15 that were/are my own. I have "rescued" too many to count, probably well over 30. Some were through an old, now defunct, pet welfare organization called United Helping Animals. Many more were dogs that my husband and I "found" or were brought to us from dire circumstances. Each dog received every bit of needed vet care and was eventually adopted out to screened, responsible homes. We fostered them in our own home at our own expense. So I'll bet your experience with six dogs and raise you by about 40 that had lengthy stays under my feet, and more than one, a permanent place in my heart.
Sadie knows the hub and I are the pack leaders. She knows her place in the "five pack" we currently have. She knows her basic commands. I don't doubt that you are a good and loving dog owner hockeyfan, but I'll state flatly that you do not have the fullest grip on all aspects of responsible dog ownership.
BLACK ALERT STATUS?
Sweet Moses! Close your window sashes, bolt your doors, turn on your emergency broadcast system alert detector thingy.
Wind up your wind up flashlights and wait for further instructions.
And, while you await your official instructions, load your shotgun and stay real quiet. If you happen to see a coyote, employ the shotgun in its primary office - and I don't mean as a personal back scratcher.
I'm surprised that an owl would go after a Canadian honker. Those geese are big, very strong and they have an evil temper. Has anyone ever seen one in this area?
It occurs to me that dog stealing is a crime of opportunity, kind of like a smash and grab. I've read stories about people having their dog stolen while they were walking the dog on a leash - the criminals just came up and calmly unhooked the dog and made off with it. And, since the criminals outnumber the dog walker, it's a pretty easy crime.
If criminals are stealing dogs around here, and it sounds like they are, keep a close watch on your dog and keep your pistol with you. The idea that you can't shoot someone who's stealing your dog is false - assuming you have any competence in marksmanship at all, that is.
I do not get your post holland.
I am not on a high horse. I merely doubt the story as told by the sensationalized media. As far as my comment about being the "master", that was in response to the dog "wanting" to do something.
If we all let our dogs do what they want, they would wander the streets loose to breed and do whatever their "true nature" is.
By the way, I wasn't stating that I had owned 6 dogs so everyone would bow down and worship my dog knowledge. It was in response to being accused of not ever owning a dog. Not to show the TT's how dog knowledgeable I am.
I believe that posted responses on any message board lacks it's true intent. I never intended to come off as superior or even "better than anyone else". I do however, question most stories and reports at face value and do not follow blindly. That applies to this post.
Just take a moment to consider these facts.
The news story states 6 dogs, others say 12.
I question the fact that 6 dogs could be taken in the same "area" or neighborhood without owners being alerted. Yes, I know some dogs are friendly, but many bark when approached. Even with extensive surveillance finding 6 dogs that do not bark when approached, all in the same neighborhood is really slim odds. How would anyone know by simply watching if a dog is going to bark? That's a big chance to take to watch a dog from a distance and then approach it, hoping it won't bark. But let's assume that a dog was stolen. So one dog disappears and no one notices. Then another, then another, and again until 6 are gone. And no one noticed or spoke to other dog owners? I've seen cars riding around my neighborhood calling for their dogs if they were missing. I've had people come up to my door and ask if I've seen their missing dog when it got loose. My point is that didn't anyone make this apparent? Didn't this happen there? Wouldn't all these people being outside calling for their dogs be some kind of a tip that something was happening there? I would like to think that after the 4th dog being missing, that people would start looking after their pets a little more while outside.
It really doesn't matter to me how other people raise or treat their dogs as long as they don't break the law. If they want to leave their dogs outside because the dog "wants" to, then by all means, do it. But don't be surprised when the dog either digs it's way out, jumps the fence, or worse, gets stolen doing so. I guess if the dog "wants" to come back, it will.
But, I'm not a good and loving dog owner because of what? A couple of sentences on a message board? Good grief. I guess I'll add that to my list of things I need to do. Right after sensitivity training. Take sensitive dog ownership classes.
By the way, animal hoarders also like to boast about how great they are as pet rescuers and owners. That's what the guy on the east side told me as we removed over 115 cats from his house and over half of them had to be put down for health reasons.
One additional note, legally, dogs and pets ARE considered property. That article link posted above was an opinion about why they should be considered more than property. Which I agree with, to an extent.
I repeat - "I don't doubt that you are a good and loving pet owner.........."
Wait a minute...didn't the local daily hire a dog beat (Auto correct wants to type dogbert) reporter? Where is the official MSM story on this horrific crime? Did the doggone Blade staff get scooped by tv on this?
None necessary. We both love and care for our dogs, but in different ways.
We do not own any dogs right now but in the past we have had several. A pet that is good around children usually loves people. It would be easy to lure them out of the yard.
Irresponsible dog owners do let their pets run free. But even the best fence will not keep a dog in if it is determined to see the outside world.
People who abuse or steal animals are among the scum of the earth. They also tend to be people abusers and takers of things not theirs.
Amen Jackie. I once had to bury 12" of chain link fence underground entirely all the way around the fenced back yard to keep a dog from digging out. He was a mixed breed rescue, approximately 7 years old when we got him, who loved to roam, in spite of being neutered.
Agreed. I'm not promoting treating your pets like inmates, but keeping a watchful eye on them, for me, comes from having a few "Houdinis" that loved to challenge fences. Whether or not a dog "escapes" or not, stealing someone's pet is grounds for a whooping. Stealing more than one pet from a group of homes is grounds for a beating.
I'm not sure about the motivation for stealing them though. There's no big money in selling them unless they are pure bred and you have papers. Even if held for ransome, it's just too easy to get caught.
My 2 dogs or as we call them "the girls" are considered part of the family. Both rescue dogs and best friends to each other. One goes outside and wants right back in. The other will stay out for long periods of time. On occasion one has escaped the back yard and I waste no time finding her, never gets too far.
Three rules are don't mess with #1 Me, #2 Mrs hoops, or #3 My dogs. This dog stealing in pure nonsense, especially in a concentrated neighborhood where the houses are close together
Is the mail delivered door to door in that particular neighborhood? I LOVE my mailman, and I'm pretty sure that 99.99% of the good men and women who deliver the mail are good, upstanding citizens, but it only takes one. Same thing for meter readers.
I'm joining the skeptics on this one. It seems the media rushed forward with a story based on people who refused to believe their precious Fifi ran away from home. Once they arrest someone or someone actually sees a guy tossing dogs into a windowless van, I'm staying on the fence.
On a side note, that FB page is well intentioned, but seems to be full of people who have severe fears of other people losing their pets. Is there a recognized phobia for that?
Dog (companion) stolen - first world problem
Dog (food) stolen - third world problem
Send out a brown alert,quick catch the dog nappers before they leave the state.
It seems more likely to me that 6 dogs could have been stolen from the same neighborhood than having 6 dogs run away around the same time. My reasoning is that it's not hard to steal a dog, certainly easy enough to case a neighborhood for friendly happy-to-see-you dogs. Unless those dogs were conspiring a break out, I'm more skeptical of synchronized escapes.
If I were to steal a dog, I'd only need to walk by a yard and gauge the reaction. Dog starts a scene, keep on walking. Dog looks at you like he expects to be pet...a determined thief may not need much more motivation.
That fb page has been helpful. People from all venues keeping each other up to date and trying to match the lost ads with the found ads. Usually someone will head out to where an animal was spotted if the person who posted wasn't able to (or just didn't try to) stop and help. No matter where you look you'll always find more people asking for help than those willing to do it themselves.
Yes, but what's the motivation? Is there really good money to be made selling dogs? Not unless they lay golden eggs. Just ask any shelter person. For about a hundred bucks you can adopt from most local places but that includes all shots, spay/neuter, and sometimes a first vet vist. If these people are looking to make money, how much could they really get? $20-$50? Maybe?
One last note: I thought the brown alert was having to do with an emergency bathroom trip.
Amber alert: child
Blue alert: police
Ok how about cold nose alert then?
Hockeyfan, I can't guess whether these dogs were stolen or ran away, but I do know that there are a few reasons why a person might steal a dog.
1. For bait. The original post in this thread surmised that the dogs have been stolen to train fighting dogs. This does happen. You can imagine the gruesome details of such a dog's fate. This is why one should NEVER EVER advertise an unwanted dog as "free to a good home," and why, if you find yourself in the position of needing to re-home a dog, you should do serious investigation of your potential adopters.
2. For breeding. This is stupid for many reasons, although criminals aren't known for being brainy; and many of the puppies I see advertised in the Blade cost far more than $50. Someone might naively see dog breeding as a money-maker (although to properly breed dogs can be a pricey endeavor, and obviously the market is over-saturated). This is one of many reasons to spay and neuter our pets! It makes them less desirable to thieves.
3. To sell for research or experiments -- this seems a bit far-fetched and I don't know how common it is or even to whom a dog stolen in Toledo would be sold for research. Perhaps this one is an urban myth, but I'm mentioning it because I do occasionally see it mentioned elsewhere.
4. The crazy quotient. Who knows why some people do the things they do? Some people have a screw loose. Maybe they want to "rescue" dogs, or torture them or ...?
Personally, I'm one of those types who, when we had a dog, was always paranoid that he was going to get loose or be stolen, so he was never left unsupervised outside for longer than it might take me to go to the bathroom myself, and even that was rare. I'd watch him from the back door or a window, or I'd go outside with him. The back yard was for pottying, not self-directed playtime.
"Personally, I'm one of those types who, when we had a dog, was always paranoid that he was going to get loose or be stolen, so he was never left unsupervised outside for longer than it might take me to go to the bathroom myself, and even that was rare. I'd watch him from the back door or a window, or I'd go outside with him. The back yard was for pottying, not self-directed playtime."
Me, too. When I had dogs, I was very neurotic about them. They were well-behaved, but if I left them alone in the yard, they'd nearly always get into some kind of trouble, i.e,. fall into the pool, corner an injured cat or raccoon to the fence, etc. I need to know where they are, too. I never could understand people who let their cats out at night, then go to bed. I would always be worried that our cat got hit by a car during the night or he got lost or just plain disappeared.
Selling animals to labs is fairly common. "Bunchers" collect from free ads, some I'm sure even steal, and then sell them around $25 a piece to licensed USDA Class B dealers who get quite a bit more from the lab.
Another reason would be what's called "flipping", when a person makes a profit on an animal they got for free or cheap. When the animal is fixed it will serve to make more of a profit. Purebred - even more.
I'm surprised that an owl would go after a Canadian honker. Those geese are big, very strong and they have an evil temper. Has anyone ever seen one in this area?"
Yes, but not for years. In the mid '90's there was a great horned owl hunting our neighborhood. I first spotted it perched on the TV antenna tower of my neighbor late at night with a full moon shining behind it. I was very surprised as I was not aware that GHO's were even in this area but a (primitive in the '90's) Internet search said they are. It stuck around for a few weeks and we kept a very close eye on our Pomeranian. Late one evening while on the patio, the dang thing scared the crap out of us as it hopped off the next door neighbor's (different neighbor than where originally spotted) TV tower to take flight. They don't just "jump" into immediate flight like a small bird. They "drop" a considerable distance as they spread their wings to take flight. We didn't even know it was around until we heard the rush of feathers above our heads, looked up and saw the HUGE thing flying away. Aside from standing about 3' tall, they have a huge wingspan. It was quite a site.
Haven't seen one around for years but the hawk population seems to have exploded.
"When I had dogs I was very neurotic about them."
A dog needs to be allowed to be dog to avoid the development of neurotic coping behaviours.
#1. Understand your dog.
#2. Provide your dog with an environment where they can safely express their instinctual behaviours.
If its a purebred, that's pretty easy. It will have a known, certain set of characteristic behaviorial traits. Example: An English Pointer (or any of the field hunting dogs for that matter) will go bonkers if not allowed to work off the energy they have for running the fields. Coop that dog up and your really doing the dog a great disservice. They will find other ways to express that frustrated energy and it might involve eating your couch cushions.
If its a mixed breed your job is harder. You have to spend some time with your dog to see what he/she is all about. You may or may not be able to recognize some instinctual breed behavious. If you do see some breed traits work with those behaviours and provide a SAFE environment that allows the dog to express those behaviours.
I had a chihuahua/terrior mix that wouldn't get his feet wet or stay outdoors for two minutes in bad weather.He preferred to be indoors, even if it was good weather. His sister had a ton of terrier temperment, digging, running, yapping, rolling in the mud, and trying to catch the fish in the koi pond. What a joy she was! That 8lb dog needed a full acre to run off that terrier energy. We made sure she had a safe place to do just that. And becasue she could work off what she loved to do, it made her a great indoor dog, happy and relaxed. She had great house manners, good social skills and easily reponded to basic obedience commands.
A dog needs more than neutering, vet care, good nutrition and love. They need to know you are the pack leader. Some basic obedience training will yield great results in maintaining your dog's mental well being. Absolutely equally important is that a dog needs to be a "dog" and regularly allowed some time to exercize and safely do what a dog does.
They are each a unique, complex, mental being, not just house ornaments and receptacles for affection.
Holland, are you guessing that people who keep a watchful eye on their dogs' back yard potty breaks are not providing opportunities for their dogs to exercise and "be dogs"? Because I would beg to differ, as you and I have never met and you've never seen me spend a day (or a week ... or a year) with a dog.
An English Pointer (or any of the field hunting dogs for that matter) will go bonkers if not allowed to work off the energy they have for running the fields. Coop that dog up and your really doing the dog a great disservice. They will find other ways to express that frustrated energy and it might involve eating your couch cushions.
Sadly, I can attest to this.
We got busy over the holidays (as many people do) and sadly did not get our English Pointer as much exercise as he needed during that time.
And yes, he did chew up one of the cushions on "his" couch.
Sigh...at least it was the dog couch in the other room, not the good couch in the family room?
Ouch. English Pointers are a teriffic breed. I just love them. But it takes a special owner to manage this dog as a house pet. Your pointer is lucky mom2. Sounds like he found that special owner.
I don't know how old your pointer is, but I don't think you will be always dealing with the high intensity behaviour. He will eventually "age out" of most of that excessive energy. He'll still enjoy running the fields, but he'll be more likley to enjoy a good nap on the couch, instead of eating it. Again, he's apparently a very lucky dog.
It isn't an urban myth. In fact it's been happening for years, and I agree it's despicable.
holland, I must be insane. I have my English Pointer and a Weimaraner as house pets.
(Though my Weim is a year or two older than the Pointer, and less energetic than what's typical for the breed. Still active, just not that stereotypical crazy Weim energy.)
"A dog needs to be allowed to be dog to avoid the development of neurotic coping behaviours."
I should have said that I took my dogs to the park every day to run their fool heads off, lol. They were well behaved, and never bothered anyone. I always carried a leash, though, as a courtesy to others using the park. I would never keep them in the house without any exercise. My point was I could never keep them in the yard for very long unless it was supervised simply because they could get into trouble, i.e., fall into our inground swimming pool, which they did even when they were supervised. The neighbor's dog nearly drowned once when it dug a hole under our fence in the middle of the night and fell into the pool.
Providing a safe environment for a dog to regularly blow off steam is one of THE HARDEST tasks a pet owner has to deal with. It can be expensive and its day in and day out for years. Depending on the breed, it can sometimes be the biggest challenge of pet ownership.
I've had three pointers. All rescues. One became ours permanently. He was big time "field nutty", but did not dig or jump.
The second was a sweetie that was easy to adopt, and pretty mellow for a pointer.
The other was a magnificent German Shorthair who could jump the back yard fence any time she choose. Running the fields was her life. At the time we didn't have the money to replace the 4' chain link with a 6' privacy fence. (We did do that later.) Keeping her at home AND exercized was a huge daily undertaking. We finally found a safe adoptive home for her with a retired couple who lived on an island on a small lake in Michigan. There she could run to her heart's content. No fences and everybody on the island ( about six families as I remember) was dog friendly. If it hadn't been for that couple I don't honestly know what we could have done to place her properly. She was one of my all time most difficult dog adoptions. We first tried local responsibile hunters but she was gun shy. In fact, I was told that was probably why she was found running loose and no one claimed her. She might have run from the gun shot and the owner never tried to get her back.
She was also my first experience at having a dog in heat. She went into heat about the second week we got her. Try hanging on to a 55 lb dog in heat on a six foot lead who wants to run, run, run. I really never want to go through that again.
Neighbor had a dog once the could get over 6' privacy fences. I'm not that familiar with all the dog breeds was a hunting dog type but he never took it hunting. The dog would jump up get its front paws on top of fence and pull itself over, would clear 4' fences and could jump our 5' fence pretty easily.
Oh brother. I can't envision a dog getting over a 6' fence but if the dog's really determined I'm sure it can happen. That's when you have to have an outdoor kennel run with an enclosed top. No small expense there.
I couldn't believe it till I saw it happen. He was able to get his front paws between the ears on top of a 6' privacy fence and pull himself up and over.