Toledo Talk

St Joseph's Auctioning a Puppy

St. Joseph's in Sylvania will be auctioning off a puppy this Saturday. Not to the most responsible person who has thought through this huge commitment beforehand, but to the highest bidder.

Would anyone be willing to call, email, or crosspost this?

St. Joseph's: 419-882-6670

Principal Mrs. Sally Koppinger email: skopping@stjoesylvania.org

Business Manager Mr. Jim Floyd email: jfloyd@stjoesylvania.org

The President of Lourdes College is sponsoring this event. She (Theresa Houp) can be contacted at: tholup@lourdes.edu

Please politely ask them to reconsider auctioning a puppy, and you may even want to propose they instead auction an adoption certificate from the Toledo Area Humane Society.

Points to make:

The serious, lifelong commitment to bringing a pet into a home.
The careful consideration required before deciding on a pet that will fit in with your family and lifestyle.
Auctions create a desire to "win" rather than the careful consideration required.
Pets purchased at auction often end up in shelters and homeless.

There will also be a protest at the event if you care to join.

created by dralionagogo on Jan 24, 2012 at 07:19:33 pm     Pets     Comments: 74

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Comments ... #

It's not what you think.

The benefit dinner is primarily for families of the school. The puppy is available for interested families to meet and make a decision on ownership prior to the dinner, just as anyone bringing a dog into the family would.

This happens every year, and I've never seen anyone bring the puppy home on a whim.

The only difference between this & someone adopting a puppy via other means is that the money goes to the scholarship fund.

Nothing to overreact about. The family who is going to bid on the puppy is basically already decided.

posted by mom2 on Jan 24, 2012 at 07:28:44 pm     #   12 people liked this

I have to agree with dralionagogo on this one.

Even if the money is going to a good cause and the families have the chance to meet the puppy it just doesn't seem right to me.

Surely they could find another non-living item to auction off?

Where does the puppy they auction off come from?

posted by Deho on Jan 24, 2012 at 08:31:03 pm     #  

I hope the highest bidder isn't a Chinese restaurant!

posted by shamrock44 on Jan 24, 2012 at 08:39:52 pm     #  

It is an annual benefit dinner that happens to feature a silent auction. All of the items at the auction are donated. It isn't just a public puppy auction. There are usually items like suites to sporting events, vacation rentals, etc.

I have fostered dogs for rescue groups, volunteer on transport runs to help get dogs into rescue and/or to adoptive families, and have adopted rescue dogs myself. If I thought that a puppy were being mistreated or put into a bad situation, I'd have a problem with it.

But, that's not the case. The only attendees at the silent auction are a relatively small-ish close knit group of families who attend the benefit dinner. Not some public auction where no one knows the background of the random person who will be adopting the puppy.

And, again, this is an annual event...some families plan months in advance to adopt the puppy at the benefit dinner.

posted by mom2 on Jan 24, 2012 at 08:53:46 pm     #   6 people liked this

If the Humane Society would like to donate an adoption certifcate to the silent auction as dralion suggested, I'm suspect the benefit organizers would be happy to accept it though.

I'm not a part of the benefit dinner or silent auction committees, but I'm sure there would still be the opportunity to donate items to benefit the scholarship fund.

posted by mom2 on Jan 24, 2012 at 09:00:25 pm     #  

Sounds like a nice event to me.

And the President of Lourdes University is Bob Helmer.

posted by slowsol on Jan 24, 2012 at 09:02:26 pm     #   7 people liked this

"Its not what you think".

I'm sorry mom2, but "puppy" and "auction", no matter how well intentioned, organized or tightly knit the group, are two things that should NOT go together. Even if, as you say, the outcome has been predetermined and the family prevetted. With the particulars not publicized it leaves the wrong impression to those not in the know. There are other ways to raise money. I wont be participating in a protest, however I will convey my thoughts to the administration.

posted by holland on Jan 24, 2012 at 09:35:13 pm     #  

Oh, I'm not offended or upset holland. I'm not involved with the planning of the dinner or auction.

Was just adding information based on what I know as a St Joe's parent. What would come to my mind when I heard the phrase "puppy auction" vs what actually happens are so drastically different that I felt it was important to clarify.

Not sure where protesters would be able to gather though, at least not where people attending the dinner would actually see them. There isn't a public sidewalk that's really within view of the entrance.

Guess I'll see what happens on Saturday. I'm thinking of bidding on the Red Wings tickets or the Catawba Island package. (No puppy...I have 2 big dogs of my own, and occasionally foster.)

If my kids were of that age, I'd probably try for the orthodontics package. (Keeping fingers crossed that I'll never need it!)

posted by mom2 on Jan 24, 2012 at 10:07:57 pm     #  

I trust you mom2. Your info is always spot on. The very phrase "puppy auction" conjurs up some ugly connotations. It surprises me and disappoints that a learning institution would not realize that they are inadvertently adding credence to such a despicable practice.

If they have to start issuing explanations and disclaimers then maybe they will understand they are heading down the wrong road and should look for other fund raising mechanisms in the future.

posted by holland on Jan 25, 2012 at 12:01:22 am     #  

As well-meaning as the event may be, and I'm sure they wouldn't mean to put a puppy in any danger, in the end it's still a life going to the highest bidder. Who's to say that the highest dollar isn't coming from someone who made a hasty decision?

The sad truth is, most animals go through 4-5 homes in their lifetime, only 1 out of 4 puppies ends up in a forever home, and over 2 million dogs are put to sleep each year in shelters. The odds are against this puppy no matter how good their intentions are.

At least one person requested they auction an adoption certificate instead, and were ignored. In my personal opinion, if you're not involved in rescue, you have no business adopting animals out you don't absolutely have to. Being someone who has been in rescue for several years, I know that even the most well-intending adopters can have their second guesses.

posted by dralionagogo on Jan 25, 2012 at 01:47:36 am     #   1 person liked this

I guess changing it to a hooker coupon is out of the question huh?

posted by hockeyfan on Jan 25, 2012 at 02:27:00 am     #  

I hope that they got this dog from the Humane Society and that its fixed...not from another breeder who's just making the pet overpopulation worse.

posted by OhioKimono on Jan 25, 2012 at 09:15:05 am     #   1 person liked this

WOW What a non-issue.

posted by Molsonator on Jan 25, 2012 at 09:23:36 am     #   12 people liked this

Good God dralionagogo - have you had any job offers from the Blade? You'd fit right in with their "dogs > human life" platform. This is St. Joe's - not some inner city organization auctioning off a pit bull for a fighting ring.

posted by dell_diva on Jan 25, 2012 at 09:28:16 am     #   3 people liked this

I understand the concern, that the animal could be going to somebody who hasn't proven they can take care of the animal. But really, is it any different than somebody deciding they want a dog, driving to Petsmart or wherever, and buying one? Or somebody having a litter of puppies and putting a sign up that says they're for sale?

posted by Johio83 on Jan 25, 2012 at 10:20:16 am     #   2 people liked this

Petsmart doesn't sell dogs. "Buying" a dog creates a market for puppy mills and unscrupulous backyard breeders, both of which commonly engage in cruelty to the breeding animals. It shouldn't take you long Johio83 to do a little net search about the issue of puppy mills and puppy auctions and their inhumane conditions. No one with any real knowledge of the puppy trade would - or should - knowingly associate themselves with that type of activity.

posted by holland on Jan 25, 2012 at 01:57:39 pm     #   1 person liked this

This is St. Joe's...

Which is likely why dralionagogo expressed so much concern.

Given the lack of sidewalks and available space for the protest, I'd suppose the protest marchers could use the parking lot. After all, this is St. Joe's, right? An establishment known for the gentle, forgiving and moralistic nature of its leaders.

Right?

posted by madjack on Jan 25, 2012 at 02:05:33 pm     #  

dralionagogo posted at 12:47:36 AM on Jan 25, 2012:

As well-meaning as the event may be, and I'm sure they wouldn't mean to put a puppy in any danger, in the end it's still a life going to the highest bidder. Who's to say that the highest dollar isn't coming from someone who made a hasty decision?

The sad truth is, most animals go through 4-5 homes in their lifetime, only 1 out of 4 puppies ends up in a forever home, and over 2 million dogs are put to sleep each year in shelters. The odds are against this puppy no matter how good their intentions are.

At least one person requested they auction an adoption certificate instead, and were ignored. In my personal opinion, if you're not involved in rescue, you have no business adopting animals out you don't absolutely have to. Being someone who has been in rescue for several years, I know that even the most well-intending adopters can have their second guesses.

According to these stats, the pup is screwed no matter where he goes. The puppy is already an entity, dropping this by the school now may put the puppy in a worse position - you have no idea, your just making rash a cusations and assumptions.

If you want to do something productive, work with the school now for next year. That's how change happens, not by pissing them off by protesting their event.

posted by MrsArcher on Jan 25, 2012 at 02:09:26 pm     #   3 people liked this

Those are honest statistics. My point for posting those are to explain how difficult it is to find good, forever homes. Rescues have an adoption process for good reason. If St Joes were to employ those tactics, such as the adoption contract and home check, I doubt this would be as big of an issue.

Does anyone know where the puppy comes from originally or if they have a backup plan should s/he not work out with the winning family?

And I will not be attending the protest, only stating there will be one in case someone else may want to.

posted by dralionagogo on Jan 25, 2012 at 02:19:41 pm     #  

There is no room in the Toledo Blade for another non-story. All available space is currently being used for the Seneca County courthouse. I am in favor of protesting the protest however.

posted by Hoops on Jan 25, 2012 at 02:35:01 pm     #   6 people liked this

Alright holland, when you're done attacking a straw man there, note I said Petsmart or wherever. Sorry I didn't research Petsmart first, but let's just go back and say: how is it different than anywhere that sells dogs? Humane society included. When we got our dog, all that was required of us was that we had the money.

posted by Johio83 on Jan 25, 2012 at 02:49:10 pm     #   1 person liked this

(When we got our dog from the humane society, I should say)

posted by Johio83 on Jan 25, 2012 at 02:50:00 pm     #  

Given the above data and providing the pup is from a reputable dealer, perhaps selling a puppy to the highest bidder (in other words, people willing to compete for and pay dearly) at a church with a faith and family based congregation like St. Joseph's in an affluent area like Sylvania, this dog probably has a better chance for warm and loving life than most.

posted by Offshore on Jan 25, 2012 at 02:54:46 pm     #   2 people liked this

Seems like buying tickets to a dinner at $75 a plate, getting dressed up, sitting through the dinner, then waiting to make a winning bid on an auction wouldn't be the most efficient way for someone with bad intentions to get a puppy.

Not when you could just walk into the Humane Society and pay the fee. (Or the dog warden or any number of other avenues.)

posted by mom2 on Jan 25, 2012 at 02:57:39 pm     #   3 people liked this

dralionagogo posted at 01:19:41 PM on Jan 25, 2012:

Those are honest statistics. My point for posting those are to explain how difficult it is to find good, forever homes. Rescues have an adoption process for good reason. If St Joes were to employ those tactics, such as the adoption contract and home check, I doubt this would be as big of an issue.

Does anyone know where the puppy comes from originally or if they have a backup plan should s/he not work out with the winning family?

And I will not be attending the protest, only stating there will be one in case someone else may want to.

So on one hand, you're criticizing the process. Then admitting that you don't even know what process you're criticizing?

posted by mom2 on Jan 25, 2012 at 02:59:51 pm     #  

(My battery is dying right now, but I do know more specifics that I can type later.)

posted by mom2 on Jan 25, 2012 at 03:08:37 pm     #  

Offshore, the concern with auctions is 1. the assumption that an animal's value can be related to other items for auction, and 2. bidding wars - the desire to win just to win.

I think there are ways to please everyone in this situation though. I'm not as die-hard as others and don't believe this is the same as the puppy mill dog auctions, but a few precautions should be added.

St Joes doesn't have rescue experience, nor do they have the knowledge - so go ahead and borrow ideas from rescues. I emailed them only asking they include an adoption contract and allow someone with the experience to do a home check.

This isn't all black and white, but they have placed themselves in a grey area where they should be receptive to the advice of rescuers.

As for "prviding the pup is from a reputable dealer": Most "reputable" breeders are not so simply "reputable". There are very few who have the breed's temperament and health in mind, and I have yet to see one in this area. If that's not their only concern, they're backyard - despite how reputable their community believes them to be.

I'm also waiting to hear where this puppy is coming from, because it's entirely too easy to get one from a mill or backyard breeder in exchange for a little publicity. You see, there are many layers of concern here, but all of which can be easily remedied if St Joes will accept the advice so generously given.

posted by dralionagogo on Jan 25, 2012 at 03:12:14 pm     #  

Draglion
A wide eyed puppy can surely tug at one heart strings and influence a buyer’s decision and, in fact, most people, in my opinion, should not have dogs.

Dogs as a commodity: since dogs are in fact bought and sold they often have a monetary value. My problem with breeders in general is that they breed to compete with others to “title” a dog. The “championship” dog produces offspring with higher monetary value than untitled or mixed breeds. Therefore, even a reputable breeder isn’t likely to donate a championship quality pup to charity. But, that doesn’t mean that the pup will not make just as good of pet as a so-called champion. I despise this but that doesn’t make it not exist. In this case the money bid for the pup will most likely exceed the market value of the dog.

I cannot say that a bidding war just for the sake of winning is the case; at least I hope not. It’s just my testimony and experience that the bidders really want the dog not the victory.
In any case, I will stick to my original words that “this dog probably has a better chance for warm and loving life than most”

posted by Offshore on Jan 25, 2012 at 03:39:56 pm     #  

Ok, I'm just going to say it. Who fucking cares?

posted by hunkytownsausage on Jan 25, 2012 at 03:48:55 pm     #   12 people liked this

That's sad.

posted by holland on Jan 25, 2012 at 04:32:28 pm     #  

Is it illegal? no
Is it offensive? no

Is it one of those things that may sound like a good idea at the time, but probaby should be re-thought? yes

The potential for misunderstandings and heated points of view is definately there. For a mere few sentences added to the entire event, this contraversial topic could be reduced to almost nothng.
Things like: Only those serious about adopting a puppy will follow through with adoption. Others will donate value of gift back to fundraiser.
or
Winners must be approved for puppy adoption by facility providing prize.

Let's remember that we live in a dog-loving country and sometimes the best intentions are misplaced.

posted by hockeyfan on Jan 25, 2012 at 04:33:29 pm     #   1 person liked this

dralionagogo posted at 01:19:41 PM on Jan 25, 2012:

Those are honest statistics. My point for posting those are to explain how difficult it is to find good, forever homes. Rescues have an adoption process for good reason. If St Joes were to employ those tactics, such as the adoption contract and home check, I doubt this would be as big of an issue.

Does anyone know where the puppy comes from originally or if they have a backup plan should s/he not work out with the winning family?

And I will not be attending the protest, only stating there will be one in case someone else may want to.

Sorry, I'm going to ask for citations for those stats, and please, an unbiased source. Every dog I have owned, except for my current labradoodle has been one-home dogs (unless you want to count the breeder - than its two and that would throw off the stats right from the get-go, huh?)

And honestly, while rescues 'think' they are doing good for animals, IMO they are so darn picky they are passing up good homes for blind rules. A good example - my boss lost her 15 year old large-breed dog and wanted to adopt a rescue dog. The group told her NO because she didn't take her dog to the vet often enough. Seriously? Large-breed dogs do not live to 15 because they have been mis-treated. They passed up a good, solid home where the owner had a good income, big back yard, and knew how to raise a dog, because of hard-line rules. It was sad. And so my boss did the evil thing - went to a puppy mill breeder to get a new puppy. Now who exactly is encouraging puppy mills?

There is no telling at any time that people are buying/adopting a dog for the right reason. And to attack a fund raiser because they aren't doing it to YOUR specifications is stupid.

And no one is coming to my home and telling me whether or not I deserve to have a dog - that's my business. Home visit = B.S.

posted by MrsArcher on Jan 25, 2012 at 08:29:23 pm     #   6 people liked this

This is probably one of those things -- the auction, that is -- that on the surface sounds much worse than it actually is. (But I gotta admit, on the surface auctioning a puppy sounds pretty bad.)

*

Mrs. Archer, I doubt you would criticize rescues and their rules so much if you'd ever done work for one. Foster an animal sometime. Put considerable effort, time and patience into correcting the "issues" that likely got it sent into rescue in the first place. Make it feel safe. Teach it to be confident. Love it. Take it for walks in the park. Share your bedroom and your couch with it. Perhaps nurture it back to health through a disease or surgery. And then hand it over to an approved adopter; you may never see that animal again OR you might get called in two weeks by the adopters because "Fido just isn't working out." See how you feel about home checks and proper, regular vet care then.

posted by jmleong on Jan 25, 2012 at 10:55:49 pm     #   1 person liked this

Mrs. Archer, you're asking me to search through a very large accumulation of sites just to seek out those exact facts. I encourage you to research what you'd like, but what I can tell you is that I don't deal in biased statements. Whether they support my claims or not, I don't put much stock in anything that can't be backed.

What I can tell you is the euthansia rates are easy to find and available through HSUS. My previous source for that is dated 2009. Current data has changed to 3-4 million dogs put to sleep in shelters each year.

It's great that you believe animals are a commitment. However, most people are not that dedicated. I speak from experience, being a rescuer myself and having friends all across the county doing the exact same thing, one even being the head of his area's Humane Society.

The home check is one of the most important steps we take. Some people will claim a certain amount of animals and you'll get to their place to discover 2-3 more large dogs who act aggressively. Other times it's something smaller that only needs to be addressed because the owner overlooked it.

With Juno, my recently rescued pit bull, I had people calling with lovely stories of family and pit experience only to hang up on me when I mentioned the home check. In all my years of rehoming animals, I've never had this happen, yet with a pit bull it's been very common. If someone doesn't agree to the home check, there's something they're hiding.

posted by dralionagogo on Jan 26, 2012 at 01:46:47 pm     #  

I had five steadfast, major criteria for placing an adoption.

A home visit which proved a secure, fenced in area for the dog.

No children under 4 years of age if the dog was a small puppy. (That one caused the most trouble. Children under 4 yrs of age, no matter how well supervised, are brainless when it comes to not poking, hitting or otherwise roughing up a puppy. A puppy is not a learning toy.)

Two non-family references as to a person or couple's fitness and ability to provide "for life" care.

If a couple, I asked would they keep the dog if a new baby came into the picture. You'd be surprized at how many women couldn't look me straight in the eye and say yes.

And of course, documented spaying and neutering, if applicable. Vet reference if they'd had other dogs. I'd check with the landlord to make certain a rental was pet friendly.

Tough? I hope so. The good people who really cared and were knwoledgeable about canine welfare understood the process and welcomed it. The ignorant, well read Mrs. Archer's post.

posted by holland on Jan 26, 2012 at 04:49:31 pm     #   2 people liked this

Seriously?

No children under 4 can have a puppy.

Making a couple choose a dog over their baby.

Absolutely ridiculous. It is truly sad that some people in this world value a freaking DOG over a human life. Pathetic.

posted by dell_diva on Jan 26, 2012 at 05:10:48 pm     #   5 people liked this

Oh please, cut the drama. Why should a couple get a dog then shove it off to a new home later because it gets in the way of the new baby? The point is to get them to wait until a better time. Do you ever THINK before you post?

posted by holland on Jan 26, 2012 at 05:18:14 pm     #   1 person liked this

Before I stop reading this stupid thread - please tell me Holland that dogs were not euthanized because of your strange criteria? Or maybe there is not that many dogs to be placed.

posted by Molsonator on Jan 26, 2012 at 05:23:14 pm     #   4 people liked this

Obviously I think a bit more clearly than you do. What happens when the "perfect" childless couple gets the puppy after meeting your strict criteria then a year or two later, the husband loses his job, they foreclose on the house and are forced to move to an apartment that isn't pet friendly? Or if the apartment is pet-friendly, the fees are too high? Or they have to move in with relatives who (gasp!!) have a child or are allergic to dogs? What happens then? The thing is, life is incredibly unpredictable. The most unstable home can be made to look Ward-and-June Cleaver-ish for the hour it takes to do a home visit. You could be turning down the most acceptable, loving home for your dogs (such is the case with the "ignorant" MrsArcher's boss).

And Molsonator brings up a valid point too.

posted by dell_diva on Jan 26, 2012 at 05:34:46 pm     #  

Neither, molsonator. I had plenty of dogs/pups that went to decent "for ever" homes. Only one, an adult, was euthanized - she bit - three times before we got a diagnosis. I didn't place animals that displayed serious temperment problems. This one was a purebred Brittany Cocker Spaniel that had Cocker "Rage Syndrome" a known documented, disorder of some cockers. Totally untrustworthy and never could be trusted.

I never knowingly put a dog in a situation where a potential new mother might decide they didn't want the dog anymore because of the new baby. It happens all the time. Better they wait unitl the family unit can manage a dog as part of the whole family.

Ever see a toddler beat a puppy over the head with a PlaySkool toy? I have. Sure, mom usually intervenes, but the pup still caught a shellacking. No point in putting a small puppy in that potential situation either. When a dog or a puppy left my care I didn't look back over my shoulder worrying.

posted by holland on Jan 26, 2012 at 05:44:28 pm     #  

Oh for Christ's sake dell diva. Of course life happens. All dogs could come back to me if situations changed that were beyond the control of the adoptive family. They could come back to me if the animal turned out to be a bad fit. That was part of the deal. I'm sorry I didnt spell it out for you. I did get some back. One guy moved to keep his job and couldn't take the dog with him. Another came back because the owner had a stroke and her family was unable to take the dog in. One dog just refused to be house trained. I got her back. Again dell diva - THINK. Not everybody is as dumb as you seem to want to believe. Stomping on people you don't agree with before clearing up a point is just your style I guess. Sigh.

posted by holland on Jan 26, 2012 at 05:58:19 pm     #   2 people liked this

Holland's rules are common sense, really it's rehoming 101. I haven't met a single foster who allows families with young children to adopt cats or puppies. Nor do I know any who omit the ever important home check.

Personally, I weed out anyone I think may abandon their animal after having a baby or moving. Those are both ridiculous reasons to throw a life away. The baby will be fine, it's the animal who needs to watch out. And if you can't find a place that allows animals, you really didn't try that hard.

There are some instances that demand you give your animal away, but they're few and far between. With most people, it's simply a lack of integrity.

Excuses are exactly that. It doesn't take long to hear them all.

posted by dralionagogo on Jan 26, 2012 at 11:22:45 pm     #  

Is it one of those things that may sound like a good idea at the time, but probaby should be re-thought? yes

There's the voice of sanity.

I have no objection to Holland's rules for pet adoption, and if I ever did adopt a dog from Holland she'd be welcome to come on out to my place any time at all and see how the dog is getting along.

Clearly Molsonator and dell_diva have some mysterious malfunction to this criteria, and so don't have to adopt a dog from Holland or anyone else. They're free to live in a pet free area, happy forever after.

posted by madjack on Jan 27, 2012 at 12:50:18 am     #  

I guess we'll just agree to disagree. I value human life more than a dog's life. In my opinion, that makes me the sane one.

posted by dell_diva on Jan 27, 2012 at 09:31:14 am     #   1 person liked this

For the record, I don't think there is anything wrong with a rescue group or individual having criteria for potential adoptive families. If the group has put the time, effort, and expense into rescuing the dog or cat, then the group has certainly earned the right to say what type of home they would like for that particular animal.

I don't necessarily think that gives a group the right to try to dictate what process another organization uses, of course, but any rescue has the right to set up whatever rules it sees fit for its own adoptions.

posted by mom2 on Jan 27, 2012 at 10:23:22 am     #   1 person liked this

Sylvania school to go ahead with puppy auction as fund-raiser

From the article: The high bidder in past auctions has paid between $2,000 and $2,800 for the puppy...

Which ought to allay any misgivings. Anyone who spends over two grand on a dog is not going to mistreat it or dump it in favor of a child or a goofy relative.

posted by madjack on Jan 27, 2012 at 10:51:47 am     #   2 people liked this

madjack, I can tell you that I know one of the families who is hoping to bring this puppy home.

Knowing that I have 2 dogs, they started asking me questions before Halloween about how I combine a busy life (family, work, activities) with taking proper care of my dogs. I know they have asked the same questions of other families with dogs.

I don't know that they will definitely be the family that "wins" the dog, but if they do it certainly won't be a spur of the moment thing. This particular family has put a lot of thought across several months into whether they can responsibly bring a dog into their family.

posted by mom2 on Jan 27, 2012 at 10:57:40 am     #   1 person liked this

I appreciate St Joe's allowing HS to provide some guidance. But reading the article did raise a concern about where the puppy is coming from.

I'll only lightly touch on the fact that the mini goldendoodle is a very new breed, and therefore does not have the health history to determine how healthy the pups will be. That takes time and careful bookkeeping.

My main concern is St Joe's buying from a backyard breeder. The puppies aren't receiving hip, heart, eye, elbow, or any defect testings. This leads me to wonder how extensive the testing has been on the sire and dam, or records taken on the lineage. All of which are the only ways to ensure healthy pups.

When buying a puppy from Country Mini Goldendoodle, you have the option of picking up your puppy or having them shipped. Once they turn 8 weeks, this BYB will place them in airline freight and send them to you. Being subjected to this stress and unreliable temperatures is particularly dangerous for young pups.

If you pick them up yourself, you can have them at 7 weeks. That's too young to remove a puppy from their mother and siblings. Puppies and kittens can continue nursing until 12 weeks, doing so only makes them stronger. They also learn not to play to rough and what behavior is okay, not okay, and what potential dangers should be avoided. Some experienced breeders and fosters will allow the animal to be rehomed at 8 weeks, but generally you'll want to hold off until 10-12. And at that age, each week is a valuable life lesson.

Just because you're paying $800-1200 for a puppy doesn't mean you're getting healthy "stock". If they're going to pay that much to support backyard breeding, they may as well adopt instead. You have just as much guess work on health, but at least it's ethical.

posted by dralionagogo on Jan 27, 2012 at 05:16:45 pm     #   1 person liked this

IT'S A FUCKING DOG!!!!!!!!!!

posted by dell_diva on Jan 27, 2012 at 05:39:40 pm     #   5 people liked this

You don't know that for sure. Some dogs that are spayed and neutered lose their sex drive. Besides, I haven't read where they have designated this dog strictly for mating. Where did you get your info?

lol

posted by hockeyfan on Jan 27, 2012 at 06:38:53 pm     #   1 person liked this

There are principles and ethics here, dell. If this is just a dog to you, and that means very little, then I wonder why you pay such close attention to this thread.

I believe if you're going to breed a dog, you should shoot for the healthiest, most temperamentally sound you can get. Then maybe dogs wouldn't be born with hip dysplasia or dying of cancer by age two so frequently. Many health defects in dogs can be avoided through careful breeding. Guessing the family who wins the pup is hoping for a healthy dog, too.

posted by dralionagogo on Jan 27, 2012 at 06:54:22 pm     #   1 person liked this

Dralion, I haven't looked into this particular breeder, but in general your comments are spot-on regarding the things a potential buyer should look for when working with ANY breeder to purchase ANY puppy.

Adoption is a wonderful, kind, rewarding experience ... but it isn't for everyone; sometimes a new puppy is really the best fit for a family. But if a family is going to go that route, the points you've made about breeding dogs reputably and responsibly are excellent and I hope people take them seriously.

I wonder if this breeder offers a health guarantee on the pup? Reputable breeders usually do.

Since the Blade is so in love with dog stories (which, by the way, is OK with me), but they refuse to stop running Pets for Sale classified ads, I'd like to see them do a story about how to evaluate a breeder, maybe in the spring, aka puppy and kitten season.

posted by jmleong on Jan 27, 2012 at 11:18:58 pm     #  

There is an absolutely adorable video featuring each of the past year's dogs and their families.

I wish I could link it here, so that at least everyone could see how loved and happy the dogs from previous years are. (I'm not saying that it would change anyone's mind about the auction, nor would I expect it to...but at least it might give some peace of mind for people to see that those dogs are living good lives.)

However, it is posted on a private FB group for St Joe's families, and I'm not sure it would be viewable here. And even if I could figure out a way to link it, I'm not sure I'd be comfortable doing that without permission since there are other people's kids in the video.

posted by mom2 on Jan 27, 2012 at 11:20:40 pm     #   1 person liked this

"I'd like to see them do a story about how to evaluate a breeder, maybe in the spring, aka puppy and kitten season."

I'd like to read about that, too. There's so much misinformation out there on breeders. I only adopt from shelters, but I know of many people who only want buy pure breds.

posted by bikerdude on Jan 28, 2012 at 04:49:20 am     #  

The best resource for reputable breeders of purebred dogs is the local Kennel Club. It's kind of frustrating dealing with them as you have to leave a message on an answering machine and wait for a call back. Waiting for a call back can sometimes take days. (It certainly removes any implusiveness from adopting a dog.) Alternatively, ask your vet if you have one, or call a couple of well known local vets and see if they have a breeder they might recommend. While I strongly prefer shelter adoptions, I have no problems with individuals or families who seek out a purebred. Who doesn't love a big adorable Golden Retriever or a tiny Yorkshire Terrier?! A dog can't choose its birth circumstances and all deserve good homes. If that's the right dog for you, then go for it!

I would NOT go outside of a vet recommended breeder or one referred from a Kennel Club. INVESTIGATE AND PICK YOUR BREEDER FIRST, then pick your dog. A qualtiy breeder means a quality, cared for dog. If there isn't a local breeder for the breed you're interested in, try a Kennel Club referral from a club located in another city. Something else to consider, nearly all breeds have organizations dedicated to rescuing their own particular breed. There are many, many rescued purebreds in foster homes looking for the right home. Do a little Google.

http://www.toledokennelclub.org/

Full disclosure: I have a purebred chihuahua from a kennel outside of Norwalk Ohio. I so dearly loved our old rescued chihuahua that died, that I just had to have another one. I choose the breeder, then waited until the litter was born and then choose the pup. It's sometimes a long process if done correctly. He's perfect.

posted by holland on Jan 28, 2012 at 01:20:56 pm     #  

2 hours to post time! Just picked up my suit from the cleaners. Got a pocket full of cash and an itching for a new pup. Once the misses gets all dolled up, we're heading over. So, if you're one of the goofballs out front with a picket sign, watch out. I tend to drive angrily.

posted by toledobrad on Jan 28, 2012 at 06:34:14 pm     #  

Bring it, faggot.

posted by madjack on Jan 28, 2012 at 06:43:39 pm     #  

Slurs? Really?

posted by toledobrad on Jan 28, 2012 at 06:48:01 pm     #   2 people liked this

BTW, the protest looked like a bust. 10-15 people, mostly women, on the sidewalk with some dogs on leashes. Some had signs, but the print was small enough that you couldn't even tell what it said if you passed them on Main.

Also, the protesters were barely noticeable from the entrance to the event. I only noticed because I specifically looked for them out of curiosity.

Anyhow, I'll update after it is over if I get a chance.

posted by mom2 on Jan 28, 2012 at 07:08:29 pm     #   6 people liked this

Well, how much?

posted by HickoryG on Jan 29, 2012 at 05:09:09 pm     #  

toledobrad=TROLL. Please go away......NOW

posted by RockChick on Jan 29, 2012 at 05:26:18 pm     #  

$3,400

The puppy is going to a lovely family that has a long-standing history with both the school and parish.

Most of the people inside weren't even aware that there were protestors outside. I heard more than a few people express surprise that there were protestors outside.

"Protestors? I didn't see any protestors." "What are they protesting?"

However, I noticed online that the group is proclaiming the protest a "success." I'm not sure what their criteria is for a successful protest. I would say that a turnout of 10-15 people in a barely visible location, people inside barely aware of their presence, and a record bid made for the puppy certainly wouldn't classify as a "success."

Especially since their actions turned off at least one family from adopting through a rescue group. The family I mentioned above, who has been carefully considering dog ownership for months, is not the family who will be taking this particular puppy home.

I had been encouraging this family to consider adopting through a local rescue group, if the puppy from the benefit dinner did not become part of their family. However, they were so turned off by the rhetoric of the protestors and their ridiculous comments online that I fear they have lost any interest at all in working with a rescue puppy.

So congrats, protestors. You had a meager turnout that had minimal impact on the people attending the benefit dinner and you have turned some people off from the idea of working with rescue groups. What a success!

posted by mom2 on Jan 29, 2012 at 05:29:52 pm     #   5 people liked this

According to one of the media outlets (I can't remember if it was the Blade or a TV station) reported that there were "dozens" of protesters. They must have rounded up, from 15 to 24 to get their "dozens" statement.

posted by dell_diva on Jan 29, 2012 at 05:38:19 pm     #  

"They were so turned off by the rhetoric of the protestors and their ridiculous comments online that I fear they have lost any interest at all in working with a rescue puppy."

Not sure what that means. If they "lost any interest" in adopting a rescue or shelter dog just because of protesters, they never were going to do this in the first place. Many people adopt from shelters and rescues because they want to help with the severe problem of homeless dogs and cats, not because they are against breeding per se. And I certainly don't think someone protesting the process of auctioning off a puppy at St. Joe's is going to change my mind whether to adopt from a shelter and rescue.

posted by bikerdude on Jan 29, 2012 at 05:43:19 pm     #  

bikerdude- it was more because of some of the bizarre, whacked out comments that some of those people made online. (For example, equating the benefit dinner with slavery, and suggesting that one of the parish members get pregnant and offer the baby for auction at the dinner next year.)

Unfortunately, people who volunteer for rescue groups sometimes have to deal with the bad image projected by the extremists. I know - I have volunteered for a rescue group for years. And I often hear comments that I seem too "normal" to be part of a rescue group, because the loud, vocal extremists do not exactly represent the cause well.

Sort of how the attention-seeking whackos at PETA turn more people off from animal rights than they ever inspire.

posted by mom2 on Jan 29, 2012 at 05:54:42 pm     #   2 people liked this

I should add...I'm not sure that they wouldn't still consider the Humane Society.

However, I cannot see them adopting through a rescue group, after seeing some of the truly out-there statements that were being made by the groups involved with the protest.

posted by mom2 on Jan 29, 2012 at 06:06:19 pm     #  

I suppose that in part, this comes down to an institution, a Catholic school, that regards itself as credible, smart and generally above reproach, as smarting a little bit from being publicly criticized. Its sometimes easier to say that those delivering the criticism are not worthy, rather than admit that maybe you need to revisit your decisions and activities. Its natural to go on the defensive.

There are crazy fringes on all sides of an issue. If you're intelligent you recognize this and try look at the underlying facts and premises for possible merit. Even an instituion can learn something new.

posted by holland on Jan 29, 2012 at 08:43:45 pm     #  

Honestly, holland, I think that they ended up getting just as many messages of support (from people outside the school/parish) than criticisms from the protest group, so I'm not sure that in the end that anyone was smarting from public attention. It wasn't all negative attention.

Of course, I do understand the larger point that you're trying to make.

posted by mom2 on Jan 29, 2012 at 09:10:30 pm     #   2 people liked this

(By the way, I know that it can be difficult to tell a person's tone in an internet posting - I want to clarify for those reading that I'm being conversational with holland, not argumentative. I enjoy holland's opinions and insights, and on many topics have ended up exchanging some back and forth postings with her.)

posted by mom2 on Jan 29, 2012 at 09:21:41 pm     #  

And I have the greatest respect for mom2's postings. Civil discourse is always a pleasure. Something I strive for, but dont quite always achieve.

posted by holland on Jan 29, 2012 at 11:04:54 pm     #  

"By the way, I know that it can be difficult to tell a person's tone in an internet posting."

So true, mom2, so true. I can sound harsh, strident, or self-righteous on a message board when I'm really not that way at all. I like to think I'm pretty easy going that sometimes doesn't translate on a message board.

Although I have always adopted dogs and cats from shelters, I do not look down on family and friends who buy dogs from breeders. I have never had a problem with that simply because if that's their cup of tea, then so be it. As Holland said, they need homes, too. And many end up in shelters, anyway. I wish more people would adopt from shelters instead of buying them, but I've found that there will always be people who want a specific dog or cat, and sometimes the only way to get that is through a breeder.

posted by bikerdude on Jan 30, 2012 at 07:19:51 pm     #   1 person liked this

Slate magazine just ran an interesting article about people who have had bad experiences with rescue groups.

This was the sort of thing that I was talking about, when I mentioned above that sometimes certain extreme groups can give a negative impression of all rescue groups.

I have encoutered this myself when I have tried to encourage people to foster - it seems like all it takes sometimes is one bad experience or impression of one group to turn people off from the idea.

Which is unfortunate, because there are so many different types of people involved with different types of rescue groups.

http://www.slate.com/articles/life/heavy_petting/2012/01/animal_rescue_want_to_adopt_a_dog_or_cat_prepare_for_an_inquisition_.html

No Pet For You
Want to adopt a dog or cat? Prepare for an inquisition at the animal rescue.

posted by mom2 on Jan 31, 2012 at 11:36:17 am     #   3 people liked this

You know, 1 out 4 dogs in shelters/rescues is purebred, plenty of hybrids in there, too.

Mom2: I agree with the one will ruin it for all theory with some rescues. A number of my adopters came to us after negative experiences with a particular rescue, and it's always the same rescue. Although I know it to be run competently and compassionately, I think adopters can sometimes be screened more heavily than their own volunteers.

What we all do is try to pair up the right animal with the right home situation. Too many animals get dumped in shelters or on streets, so we seek to avoid that. Every animal is evaluation in as many situations possible, but very few people are ever willing to let us pick the one who would work in their home.

I recently had a lady wanting to adopt (and declaw) my young, feisty foster cat for her 1 year old. Her reasoning was her other 3 cats won't play with the kid. Ya think?

I've also had people wanting to adopt cat-aggressive cats for their new kitten. These are cats who have been tested with cats and kittens and just can't cope, despite all the work we've done with them. Yet when I suggest another cat that loves kittens, they don't want that cat b/c it doesn't have the LOOK they want. Wrong color or something silly like that.

So I agree there will always be people giving their rescue a bad name, usually the new and young volunteers or the older and jaded, but they have had the experience to know what works and what sends the animal right back to you. We need to be cautious or the animal suffers.

posted by dralionagogo on Jan 31, 2012 at 05:53:59 pm     #  

I do agree that it is good to be cautious and make sure that the animal will be going to a good situation. As I stated above, I support the right of a rescue group to set it's own criteria.

Just wish that the groups who are so restrictive that it turns people off realized that they might be creating an image problem by association for other groups. There must be a happy medium somewhere, one would think!

And, of course, it would be nice if people who had a bad experience with one rescue were still willing to give other groups a chance. Though I can understand why a person might get too frustrated if they felt they were raked over the coals by a group.

I happily had a home visit when I signed up to foster, but it was really more of a "check to see if you have a secure yard and also to see that your current dog looks happy/healthy in the home" kind of visit. I'm not sure how I would have reacted if the home visit had been as intense as some of the ones described in the Slate article! Might have balked a little, even though I don't have anything to hide.

posted by mom2 on Jan 31, 2012 at 06:18:44 pm     #