Well, so much for supporting Toledo and its airport. It seemed too easy to fly from here to Southwest Florida than driving to Detroit.....parking etc. But alas, Direct Air has stopped service abruptly throughout its system. Unfortunately, there are no alternatives to our destination from Toledo. Back tonDetroit at the last moment.
Direct air
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And living in the flight path of Toledo Express gets quieter and quieter.
posted by Molsonator on Mar 14, 2012 at 09:16:04 pm #
Allegiant does fly to Punta Gorda, but so far only from 4 other cities. If the Port does their job (which is rare for the last umpteen years) they would be working to get them to start up the route from TOL. We'll see if that happens. Allegiant is flying extremely heavy right now and DirecAir was booked around 91% full on their outbound flights so far this year. Demand is there, someone just needs to fly it.
However, fuel pressures are starting to take a major toll on the airline system overall. Southwest announced it'll lose money this quarter. This will probably open them up to raising fares around $10-20 on one way ticket prices which in turn will be immediately matched by everyone else.
There are a couple new start ups out there which could be a viable option for Toledo, but much too early to say. Don't be shocked if anyone airline does show up in Toledo this year that has had some previous history.
Outside of passenger traffic, cargo traffic is rebounding. The BX facility is humming along, so at least it isn't empty. No public word on bringing in air lift to support their operation yet. However, DHL is operating 3 flights a night now to Cincinnati and Minneapolis.
posted by JustaSooner on Mar 14, 2012 at 09:21:44 pm #
Unfortunately, this was just a bad business plan by Direct Air. They opened up some questionable routes and weren't charging enough on their fares to cover their fuel costs. Not really the Port's fault here. Direct Air had no available seats from Toledo until one of their very last flights out in the end of April.
We shall see how the Port reacts on Friday. I will report back then. They never have been very out of the box proactive thinking. Sooner is right though - they should be talking to Allegiant right now and trying to get them onboard for flights next fall. Even though, they could easily run flights pretty much all summer down to Southwestern Florida.
We shall see how the Port reacts on Friday...They never have been very out of the box proactive thinking.
The understatement of the year...
posted by oldhometown on Mar 15, 2012 at 12:33:30 pm # 1 person liked this
Sarcasm Alert, Sarcasm Alert
"We shall see how the Port reacts on Friday...They never have been very out of the box proactive thinking."
Um... Didn't you know that Toledo Express is REALLY a covert Space Port equipped with landing pads for UFO's and with a sophisticated state of the art port of entry for Aliens err, sorry, Galactic Explorers into the USA?
How much more "proactive thinking" do you want anyways? I really wish people would give the people that are in charge of business and economic development the respect they deserve for making this area the.....
Ha! I think the Port Authority is a shadow government. They get funding from shipping activities (including every plane that lands or takes off) and they are being handed the right to generate their own income stream by taking over municipal parking. Are they accountable to anyone, either in government or to the taxpayers? Remember that Carty badly wanted a seat on the PA board ... probably so he could pull some strings and get some things done.
posted by viola on Mar 15, 2012 at 07:49:43 pm # 1 person liked this
So Rockford, IL, which was also impacted by Direct Air, went out and immediately secured Vision Airlines to come in an take over service effective...NEXT WEEK. I highly doubt anyone at the Toledo Port Authority has taken the initiative similar to this.
http://www.wrex.com/story/17170807/rfd-announces-solution-for-direct-air-cancelations
I believe their is a Port board meeting tomorrow and they probably won't even touch on it. They'll chalk it up to "oh it is a bad economy, fuel prices, blah blah blah...oh 9/11 too!" Same tune has been sung by them for over 10 years now. Their incompetence is pretty embarrassing, but hey...if they can sleep at night know how horrible of individuals they are and the fact they are among the laughing stocks of the (airline) industry - then more power to them. The warning signs should have gone off when airlines 10+ years (AirTran, United, etc) told them to get lost when they went calling.
posted by JustaSooner on Mar 15, 2012 at 11:01:55 pm #
The port authority is accountable to a board of directors appointed by the mayor and county commissioners.
Like every other business (and the port authority is a business that generates revenue and tries to make a profit), their bottom line has taken a hit and cuts have been made. Unfortunately, those cuts have included the marketing staff at the airport that used to pitch the airport to airlines.
posted by MemyselfandI on Mar 16, 2012 at 07:24:41 am #
The port authority is accountable to a board of directors appointed by the mayor and county commissioners.
Like every other business (and the port authority is a business that generates revenue and tries to make a profit), their bottom line has taken a hit and cuts have been made. Unfortunately, those cuts have included the marketing staff at the airport that used to pitch the airport to airlines.
Yet they continue to find money to fund other projects and purchase assets. They are probably just looking for an asset that they can use to write off losses - the airport. The excuses about losing money and having to make serious cuts, to positions critical to keep the airport functioning, is just that - an excuse. And a weak one at that. You don't see Flint, Fort Wayne, Rockford, South Bend, Gary, or Youngstown coming up with these excuses. They are pushing projects through and aggressive going after new services for their respective cities. Of course many of these cities have separate airport authorities than other transportation authorities. That allows them to focus completely on airport operations. The TLCPA has always been more focused on the sea port and rail industries.
Not saying that the airport should go to the City of Toledo operate, heavens those idiots will make things worse. However, an independent airport authority/trust should be established where they can focus on the airport and airport only.
posted by JustaSooner on Mar 16, 2012 at 04:39:18 pm #
"Write off" is a term bullshit artists throw around a lot to explain decisions they don't understand.
To "write off" is to deduct a loss on taxes. The port authority does not pay taxes, therefore, would not be looking for a write off.
From what I've been told, the port authority would gladly give the airport to the first person to take it off their hands.
posted by MemyselfandI on Mar 20, 2012 at 09:36:24 am # 1 person liked this
Aviation has never been a focus of this area and it should be. It allows businesses easy access to transportation to do things efficiently. The Port continues to squander good opportunities with the airport. Not even the city gives two shits about the place. The only people that do are the ones who are out there and have some kind of affiliation out there - and that is even waning as they see that no one else cares. The airport has such a huge economic impact on area, yet they haven't figured out how take advantage of it. Why haven't they pitched manufacturing of aircraft parts to Boeing or Airbus or Hawker or Cessna? Could easily build a plant near there which would be easy access in and out. That would play into this areas manufacturing strength.
I question why this area has such a small ratio of business jet to population and businesses. I don't get how a place like Allentown, PA has 100x more bizjet activity then TOL who has a much larger base. I also question why we have no flight school out at the airport. I think it comes back to the entity running the place. They have no one promoting the place on a full time basis. There is no one dedicated to discussing with potential clients or users. They are on minimum staffing out there and people are just pissed.
MM&I-I have heard that too ... If I only could win the lotto ::sighs::
-Av
"Write off" is a term bullshit artists throw around a lot to explain decisions they don't understand.
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Thanks for posting that and I agree.
Did I not read that the Port Authority is going to rent out an apron at the airport to store automobiles?
This is a little off, however I never understood the reasoning behind Toledo Express Airport location when we had a great location at Metcalf Field (I think Toledo Metro Airport back in the day.) I do know the soil at Toledo is sandy muck and rock at Mecalf. It really made no sense to re-invent the wheel though. I suppose it was all about fed grants and who would make out the best while in office... I know when Toledo Express was built the area was really out in the Boon Docks. And then developers moved in, built houses and sub-divisions and many people moved out there so they could complain about the airport noise.
Same thing happened at Cleveland Hopkins and a court order made the airport noise proof and or buy houses...
This is a little off, however I never understood the reasoning behind Toledo Express Airport location when we had a great location at Metcalf Field (I think Toledo Metro Airport back in the day.) I do know the soil at Toledo is sandy muck and rock at Mecalf. It really made no sense to re-invent the wheel though. I suppose it was all about fed grants and who would make out the best while in office... I know when Toledo Express was built the area was really out in the Boon Docks. And then developers moved in, built houses and sub-divisions and many people moved out there so they could complain about the airport noise.
Same thing happened at Cleveland Hopkins and a court order made the airport noise proof and or buy houses...
Yeah. Metcalf would definitely have been better to be expanded, but they wanted room. The problem is Express was put too far west. The other sites where in West Toledo and also where International Park is now in East Toledo. It probably wouldn't be as bad if the Turnpike was more used for local travel as it is a very quick trip from the east side to the airport when you use it. However, Toledo isn't like many (larger) cities that are use to intra-city toll roads.
I still kinda think it would be nice to rehap Metcalf and move commercial operations over there.
posted by JustaSooner on Mar 20, 2012 at 05:11:14 pm #
"Write off" is a term bullshit artists throw around a lot to explain decisions they don't understand.
To "write off" is to deduct a loss on taxes. The port authority does not pay taxes, therefore, would not be looking for a write off.
From what I've been told, the port authority would gladly give the airport to the first person to take it off their hands.
Aww someone is getting grumpy. It's okay if you next course of action is to attack right away. For all we know you have a vested interest in the Port Authority, so we'll keep that noted going forward.
The Port Authority wouldn't really have to do much. They are just leasing it from the City. If they want to unload it, then people need to start working on an independent airport authority or leasing it to a private company to operate.
posted by JustaSooner on Mar 20, 2012 at 05:13:32 pm #
I first used Toledo Express in April of 1957. There was a lot of enthusiasm for it at that time. We used to go out on Sundays and eat at the airport and watch planes land and take off.
North Towne and Franklin Park were airports at that time. And all were in the boon docks. Land became too valuable for drive-ins and airports and the building of the malls began.
I do not know the politics of getting airlines to use Toledo Express. But just having the fly by night airlines who eventually just quit flying is not a good advertisement for our town.
I first used Toledo Express in April of 1957. There was a lot of enthusiasm for it at that time. We used to go out on Sundays and eat at the airport and watch planes land and take off.
North Towne and Franklin Park were airports at that time. And all were in the boon docks. Land became too valuable for drive-ins and airports and the building of the malls began.
I do not know the politics of getting airlines to use Toledo Express. But just having the fly by night airlines who eventually just quit flying is not a good advertisement for our town.
The main thing working against Toledo Express (besides an ineffective Port) when it comes to market conditions is there...
- Airlines are in the mode of coping with high gas prices and are trying to cover margins and keep yields high.
- Toledoans are wanting for nonstop service to many destinations at cheap fares.
The two don't mix. Airlines would serve Toledo if they could make money to pay the bills and match their profit margins of existing markets. Toledoans are stuck in budget mode and want to be cheap.
It is going to take a complete retraining of the local market in what is reality and what is fantasy. The minute people change and start paying sustainable fares and utilize the services offer, the faster choices will expand. American is doing very well in Toledo but it is mostly out of town business traffic coming into the airport. High yield traffic.
Here in OKC we are seeing continuous growth of offerings from the airport and that is with one of the highest average fares in the nation and people driving to Wichita, Tulsa and Dallas. People may think driving 2 hours is too much, but most of our morning commutes in the town are around an hour. It happens when you have a city that is 600 square miles not counting suburbs - compared to Toledo which is just over 80. Flights are full though and we see more service added. Southwest is adding Chicago Midway nonstop and also trying to start Washington National nonstop.
There is one airline that comes to mind right away that is ready to fly into Toledo. They won't. Why? Toledoans won't support the minimum average fare they are wanting, which isn't that high at all. So yeah there are politics involved, but there is also a lot of blame placed on the Walmart/budget mentality of the Toledo-area traveler.
posted by JustaSooner on Mar 20, 2012 at 06:32:53 pm #
The real problem is Detroit is too close and to cheap for Toledo to compete against. The shear number of airlines available in
Detroit means unless you get some cut rate airline with gimmicky fare prices your not gonna get good deals. As Justa says cheap fares and airline profits don't mix at such a small airport. Shooting up 75 and out 275 to Detroit metro is just as easy as driving across Toledo for about 60% of the folks in Toledo. If you can't get the numbers for filling planes most airlines won't even consider coming to Toledo let alone direct flights anywhere. I wonder if Toledo gets some of the airport subsidies to keep it open?
http://ostpxweb.dot.gov/aviation/x-50%20role_files/essentialairservice.htm
posted by Linecrosser on Mar 20, 2012 at 07:38:53 pm #
The real problem is Detroit is too close and to cheap for Toledo to compete against. The shear number of airlines available in
Detroit means unless you get some cut rate airline with gimmicky fare prices your not gonna get good deals. As Justa says cheap fares and airline profits don't mix at such a small airport. Shooting up 75 and out 275 to Detroit metro is just as easy as driving across Toledo for about 60% of the folks in Toledo. If you can't get the numbers for filling planes most airlines won't even consider coming to Toledo let alone direct flights anywhere. I wonder if Toledo gets some of the airport subsidies to keep it open?
http://ostpxweb.dot.gov/aviation/x-50%20role_files/essentialairservice.htm
It's definitely not under the EAS program. Too big for that. Toledo brings in money with landing fees and having the Air National Guard base there does wonders. There is also a decent private aviation contingent there that helps. Passenger service doesn't make or break the airport, which many seem to not realize.
There are several instances of successful airports in the shadow of major hubs. However the one part of your statement is the key - it is too cheap. Having Walmart of the Skies - Spirit - up there just destroys yields. Lansing is in the same boat as Toledo, but they have Sun Country doing good things.
We can look back in the not-so-distant past and Toledo was doing really well. Almost 40 flights a day to several destinations and had low fare service by AirTran and ATA. People didn't support them. Granted ATA was doing good here, but the parent went bankrupt. AirTran left due to weak yields even though planes were 70-80% full. Delta left due to weak yields. Same with USAir, Continental, etc.
Can it get better? Yeah I believe it can. However, there really needs to be a niche find that will be able to serve the market with reasonable fares to get the area to compromise. Of course things would be better if Spirit would to die since they are a stain on the industry when it comes to yields. Of course they don't make money on air fares, they make their money on charging you for everything but the bathroom and air on the plane.
posted by JustaSooner on Mar 20, 2012 at 08:03:26 pm #
JustaSooner:
I agree with your analysis of the airport's situation. I just hate it when people toss around buzzwords (like "write off") without context. As a public enterprise, the port authority has no taxes on its income to write off.
Nobody, and I mean NOBODY wants that airport. Carty looked at forming an airport authority. The port authority was eager to hand it (and Metcalf) off. Nobody had any enthusiasm for it.
TOL is in a death spiral. The port authority, with a thriving seaport, would rather invest money earned at the seaport, back into the seaport. Any money spent on the airport from seaport revenue must appear as debt on TOL's balance sheet and TOL's debt load is staggering now. It does not have the money for salaries to market it properly to airlines and, unfortunately, the last guy they had marketing it was a real weenie who did not do a good job.
posted by MemyselfandI on Mar 21, 2012 at 10:26:11 am #
Who was the "weenie"?
posted by Molsonator on Mar 21, 2012 at 10:28:13 am #
MMI - Again, unfortunately, no one around here thinks an airport is an economic builder. There is support growing out there for a separate airport authority. Every time it's brought up, it's quashed though because no one wants to take the time or invest the money in creating it. It goes back to the fact no one cares for an airport around here, therefore, funding would be very scarce as there would be no way to get any kind of tax revenue to start the authority and help run the airport for a certain amount of years until it would be self sustaining. The only way to get it off of the Port Authority right now is going private, but no one around here has the money for that...especially when their deficit last year was $283,000.
Weenie? I prefer cheese...None the less, they had one person working on it and then let him loose to never fill the position. Akron/Canton has a full staff dedicated to the marketing of the airport. How hard is it to get a few college interns from around the area to work on those types of things?
The box is very small...
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