Vision Airlines to start Toledo to Myrtle Beach

popular destination and non-stop is great. will consider this for the next golf trip.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/FlyTOLcom/107093498562?ref=tn_tnmn

Good fare comparison on that facebook page. For one passenger, round trip, with 1 carry on and one checked bag, for travel on June 1 returning June 4th, nonstop...

TOL-MYR on Vision: $268
Detroit-MYR on Spirit: $313 (increases by $80 following weeks)
Detroit-MYR on Delta: $453

Amazingly competitive and Vision is a long time establish carrier. Toledoans needs to jump all over this because this is what the area has been wanting. Low fares, nonstop service, to popular destinations. Vision also flies to other vacation destinations so this could be a gateway route to open Toledo to more cities.

Nice, was hoping for Frontier flying to Denver, but this is great news...

Wonderful news. Never been there but hear it's a nice beach. Hope it does well.

http://www.toledoblade.com/business/2012/06/21/Vision-Airlines-pulls-out-of-Toledo-after-less-than-a-month.html

From The Toledo Blade article that 6th_Floor posted - "“Despite the Port Authority’s efforts to support this service — through waiving off all airport fees, including landing fees and terminal use fees, and an aggressive advertising and marketing campaign — the traveling public did not support the route to the level necessary to maintain this air service,” the port’s statement said."

Aggressive advertising and marketing campaign??????

That is just sad.

http://www.toledoblade.com/local/2012/06/02/Vision-Airlines-service-takes-off-1.html

I was going to bump this thread when I read the initial flight was only 25% booked, but figured they would at least stick around until Labor Day. Even the $29 promotion wasn't good enough to gain much interest, so they probably are making a good decision via scrapping the service.

Toledo Express will remain a ghost town.

who are the genuises that justified a strong enough market to support Myrtle Beach flights?

These thigns take time to mature, if ever. There is no such thing as a magic marketing wand that can be waved to really make it take off...beyond patience and the ability to buil over time. It boggles my mind when these places come...and then pull out so quickly because it wasn't an over night success. It's so short sighted.

You know I would think with Perysburg and Bowling Green growing, well sort of, there would be more need for Toledo Express service. But I guess there really isn't much out that way in the way of a air traveling public. And just as easy to shoot up 75 to 275 to Detroit metro for a real full service airport.

^ Perhaps but the airlines are running on such thin margins (or deficits) I don't think they can hold on to unprofitable routes for any extended period of time.

That being said, I agree with justareviewer.

I fly Delta non-stop to Myrtle Beach. It is convenient and easy.

Toledo Express should just discontinue commercial flights. It's a cargo airport first, and it should just focus on that. Detroit's airport is one of the busiest in the country, and it's not much farther from most Toledoans than Toledo Express is.

Johio - in case you didn't know...it's not a cargo airport either, BAX closed down in September and BX is only trucking...The 180th pretty much is the most important thing out there.

Is there still direct flights to Orlando - Sanford?

Molsonator - Yes...St. Pete/Clearwater/Tampa and Chicago (well nonstop flights).

Nobody yet (that I know of) has answered Thomas Walton's commentary in the Blade from over a year ago (when BAX was still flying):

Akron-Canton, Flint Airports Are Flying High

Akron-Canton offers nonstop flights to Atlanta, Orlando, Tampa, Philadelphia, Denver, Washington, Fort Myers, Boston, New York, Charlotte, and Chicago, generally at fares competitive with or better than those of flights out of Cleveland.

CAK is not alone. Bishop International Airport in Flint, Mich., about 70 miles north of Detroit Metro, also is governed by its own airport board and it too is flourishing. Five commercial airlines serve Flint, offering 25 daily arrivals and departures to eight cities.

When we are looking up at Flint, Michigan, we are in deep, deep trouble. What we have now is not working (obviously).

We will NOT fly on Spirit Airlines EVA! The closest that we ever arrived on time in DTW was 4hrs late ( that was the earliest ) as their planes constantly breakdown and the planes are soooo old you are stuck while they chase parts! Plane flights are swapped all over the country while they try to get you home. Totally unreliable...

oht, very interesting stuff. I would immediately discount Akron-Canton, because they have very little competition compared to Toledo with Detroit - Detroit not only handles about 4 times the flow that Cleveland does, but Detroit is a major hub (both domestic and international), and Cleveland is not. However, Flint is pretty mind boggling. Looking up their numbers, it's nuts that they're doing about 5 times as much as we are, while not being too much farther from Detroit's airport than Toledo is.

Flint itself may not be a destination, but it's close to the north metro Detroit suburbs and closer to the tourist/vacation friendly north 2/3 of Michigan.

In comparison, what would be the appeal of flying into Toledo?

How do we terminate the Port Authoruty running the airport? They are a complete failure.

I think there's a lot that needs to be rethought about the Port Authority. Why are they running parking garages now, and why are they going to start building warehouses? These are things that the private industry does, and now the public sector is going to start competing? How is that business-friendly in any way?

Population density has a lot to do with it. In three directions from Toledo express there is NOTHING, 7 if you also use NW, SW, SE. I don't see the farmers heading to the airport for business travel.

ToledoRamblingMan:

YOU don't terminate the port authority running the airport. They have a lease with the city. If the city breaks the lease, they get to pay the port authority oodles of money. And we know the city doesn't have it.

There is no revenue in air cargo, so suggesting that as a viable option for Toledo Express tells me you don't know jack about aviation.

Toledo needs a low fare carrier such as Southwest or Jet Blue to come in and offer service to a MAJOR destination (not a vacation destination). The other airlines will follow.

Most of Detroit's wealthiest suburbs are closer to Flint than Toledo. So it makes sense Flint's airport has a lot more traffic than Toledo Express.

"The other airlines will follow". Huh? tells me you don't know jack about....oh never mind.

Johio, I think the Port Authority is a shadow government. I think they should be running a ferry to the Islands and a regular water taxi from Promenade Park to International Park to the (future) riverside metropark and on to the casino. I'd be riding that sucker every weekend.

Granted, these activities have little to do with their mission, but lots of what they do seems unrelated to "port" activities. But I believe they get a stream of funds from every ship that docks and every airplane that lands. They have to spend it on something.

BTW, Myrtle Beach was never going to be a good destination for me. I love flying out of Toledo Express, but it has to be someplace useful for my stage of life (occasional business and international travel).

General questions for everyone...

If you could have you say, what cities would you want to have nonstop service to from Toledo Express?

Then let me throw this out here, on flights 500 miles or less would you fly on a 70-seat prop (ATR-72-600 or Dash 8-Q400)?

What would you expect to pay one way?

On flight lengths over 500 miles would you want an old A319/737 or a newer Embraer 190/195 aircraft?

^are you the airport czar?

Market research maybe?

Dead on avinsurer.

I would pay 10% over Detroit fares, even if connection is necessary for most flights if times allowed morning departures

^^ yep, I agree. In the past, we've gone with Toledo if flights are within $100 of Detroit options. We felt it was worth the extra $ if we were coming home from an international destination.

http://www.toledoblade.com/local/2012/07/08/Other-airports-boom-as-Toledos-nose-dives.html

My fingers are aching typing this, but another realistic article from TB.

The past three years were record lows for the 56-year-old airport.

Probably the best idea would be to cease operations at TOL. But, that would force many of the airport and port political appointees to find real jobs.

This week I booked a Florida trip for later this summer. Toledo used to be much cheaper than flying from Detroit. However, for the dates I want, Detroit is $70 bucks cheaper. Also, no bag fees and potentially being upgraded to 1st class, so -1 for TOL and +1 for DTW and my wallet.

There is almost no, one destination airline that can make it at Toledo express, even flying into a big hub like Chicago hasn't worked. Myrtle Beach is a popular destination, but not enough of one, for Toledo to keep afloat an airline at express. And keep in mind most traffic would be flying from Toledo to the destination (wherever) and back, its not like there would be much traffic flying from a popular destination to Toledo. We will never be able to provide enough traffic to keep an airline flying to any one destination. The best that we could hope for is like our train station to have limited runs one in and one out to maybe 3-4 mid size hubs (Pittsburgh/ Cincinnati/ Indy (because the big Hubs are too crowded and expensive to add a flight from Toledo). And the prices would have to be slightly better than Detroit's, and people would have to be willing to add at least one stop over.

Actually flying to Chicago has worked, I'm not sure where you are getting the idea it hasn't. American has been growing month over month at TOL since they added the 4th flight. This is something that wasn't highlighted in the article however. Toledo is also one of the top 20 highest yielding stations for American which is huge.

The Myrtle Beach route failed because of poor planning and execution by the airline. You can't announce a new route in just a little over a month and expect the flights to be full. Most airlines will give 3 to 6 months notice for new routes to build awareness and sell tickets.

As far as the direction of passengers. American's service is mainly there to serve business traffic flying TO Toledo, not from. However, the leisure airlines like Allegiant do serve Toledo originating traffic to vacation destinations. They have been doing well filling planes and there could be some additional growth on the horizon.

Toledo Express can fill planes but it is going to come down to routes, nonstop service, and fares. It all comes down to the planning portion and how it is executed. Recently though there has been nothing but misfires by either shoddy operations or airlines just buying time.

I would also invite you to expand your knowledge of the industry. The mid sized hubs you listed...Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, and Indianapolis lost their hubs awhile ago. Cincy still has some echoes of one but Delta is down to just Concourse B now and very limited service. The old Comair terminal/Concourse C is completely mothballed and Concourse A just reopened for the other airlines to get them out of the old Terminal 2. The larger hubs like Atlanta, Dallas, and Denver will all work from Toledo but the equipment has to be right. 50-seat RJs are dying very fast (too expensive to fly) so Toledo has to prove they can make a 70+ seater profitable.

The article focused on a lot of good issues when it comes to management of the airport. The Port Authority is filled with nearly zero industry insiders/experts and just local cronies. Change needs to start from the top and Toth needs to right the ship. All we heard for years was how bad Toledo was doing, yet they were profitable just up until a short time ago. There was zero reinvestment into the airport's airline service over the majority of that time and now they are being exposed for their poor management.

Score another point for TT! Those issues were all discussed here in threads before the Blade decided it was worth a story. Nice to see it on the front page, too.

Love the suggestion above, Sooner: "I ...invite you to expand your knowledge ..." Very well put! I often run into people who believe they have the one, simplistic, obvious solution to a complex problem and they don't understand why "it" can't be fixed right away ... whatever "it" is.

"The Port Authority is filled with nearly zero industry insiders/experts and just local cronies." JustaSooner

This is the problem with the city and county, isn't it? The whole area is run by the Old Boy network and has been for years. Just look at our elected officials, who just change seats when they are defeated or are pushed out by term limits.

I still believe a lot of people miss a key point about how this city is operated.

Too many individuals and entities who control Toledo, probably don't want industry experts and otherwise large fish entering their pond. If that occurred, it's quite possible many of our current power holders would be kicked to the curb. So, Toledo is allowed to remain in a constant rut, and the power structure remains consistent.

One of the most powerful ways to vote is with the wallet. Therefore, until I see some new faces at the port authority and airport, and/or the fare is cheaper, I will be flying to/from Detroit. An equal fare will no longer be a good enough to use Toledo Express.

justasooner- I don't consider the airport running at a $700+ deficit as working, ok I agree that American eagle is still willing to fly in and out but how is it if their numbers are going up month to month the overall number of passengers is in decline.

Justasooner- I did throw out mid size hubbs without being up on there current status, but the idea is the same. I looked at ticket prices on Orbits for Toledo to Chicago and Detroit to Chicago, and Detroit beat us every time on price, and flexibility of schedule, one comparison was Toledo $438 round trip Detroit ranged was $143 round trip or $338 round trip. So even the most expensive costs $100 more at Toledo per ticket, so leaving from Toledo with the wife costs me at least $200 more guess where I'm most likely to leave from.
You also indicate that Toledo can fill planes (and we agree that routes and fares play a big part in that), however if we can fill planes why have we been unable to do so. As long as Detroit is able to beat us on route, price, and still be relatively convenient, Toledo will never fill planes like you claim, unless we can get some routes and that we can fill enough to drive the rates down enough to beat Detroit, and can go non stop to some places they don't otherwise Toledo will forever be stuck where we are.

Justsooner- I did find your comment about my midsize hubbs interesting (I don't follow the airline industry that closely) But I think the key to revival of smaller airports like ours especially when they are in the shadows of larger airports like DTW, is the revival of the midsize hubbs.

Toledo Is never gonna compete against Detroit for number of seats. It has too much going for it, so near I275, I94 to provide fast access to it, large communities all around it, Number of major airlines that service it. Toledo just isn't going to compete with all that. If the Air National Guard were to be closed the airport would have such a fast vacuum you would hear the pop from downtown Toledo as it imploded. they need people that know what they are doing, get out of the way and let them create a small function, link to other major airports where people can transfer to a real airline and plane. They should concentrate on flying to Detroit, Indianapolis, Cleveland, Columbus, and get connecting flights from there. Talking small 20-50 seat jobs, some sort of puddle jumpers just to get you to a major airport.

Perhaps direct flights to CAK...they seem to know how to manage an airport business.

I'm not making excuses or really sticking up for the Port but I want state a few facts.

"justasooner- I don't consider the airport running at a $700+ deficit as working, ok I agree that American eagle is still willing to fly in and out but how is it if their numbers are going up month to month the overall number of passengers is in decline."

Overall, the YTD passenger numbers are up 2% over 2011 and May was up 10% over May 2011. The $700k deficit is directly related to the BAX closure.

"Justasooner- I did throw out mid size hubbs without being up on there current status, but the idea is the same. I looked at ticket prices on Orbits for Toledo to Chicago and Detroit to Chicago, and Detroit beat us every time on price, and flexibility of schedule, one comparison was Toledo $438 round trip Detroit ranged was $143 round trip or $338 round trip. So even the most expensive costs $100 more at Toledo per ticket, so leaving from Toledo with the wife costs me at least $200 more guess where I'm most likely to leave from.
You also indicate that Toledo can fill planes (and we agree that routes and fares play a big part in that), however if we can fill planes why have we been unable to do so. As long as Detroit is able to beat us on route, price, and still be relatively convenient, Toledo will never fill planes like you claim, unless we can get some routes and that we can fill enough to drive the rates down enough to beat Detroit, and can go non stop to some places they don't otherwise Toledo will forever be stuck where we are."

I just checked Orbitz and TOL-ORD round trip was $240 and $114 out of DTW on AA. Note, you are flying the same airplane TOL-ORD as you would DTW-ORD on AA. I will note, the best day to check on AA for fare sales - Wednesdays/Thursdays. I have seen TOL-ORD as low as $180 round trip. TOL has been able to fill the seats, the problem is, not at a good enough fare to make it as profitable as being able to place that airplane somewhere else. Allegiant has been running at 87% to 92% loads all year long and that is basically turning passengers away. The problem is, they aren't making a good enough margin to add more seats. I was told if they increase their one way fare by just $5 ($10 round trip) they see a 5% to 10% decline in bookings. This is because no one wants to pay more then DTW. A lot of people say they will, but when it comes down to it, won't.

The focus needs to be on lower fare carriers and maybe one more network carrier. The best airline for TOL right now would be Frontier to Denver. Access to a great destination and a good network out west with very reasonable fares. United to Washington DC would be ideal for the network carrier as it would allow for a good destination in DC and a plethora of domestic and international connections.

The reason why we continue to have trouble is because of above reasons, but they also just do the minimum to promote the airport. They throw money to the media outlets and say that's more then enough. They are rarely out talking to travel agents and users in the community. They aren't engaging the community like a CAK does. They have the most twitter and facebook followers. They are constantly out in the community doing events and other stuff. Hell they had a big "reveal" of their new luggage tag. Just creative stuff that is fun and engaging. The Port has no one to do that. They have no one to sell the airport to the community, they have no one to engage, nothing. They just piss money away to the local media who loves their money.

The airport should be an embarrassment to every city official and the lack of service a genuine scandal...but it's not.

Every single member of the Port Authority should be terminated...but won't be.

Toledoans should be absolutely intolerant of being told "we can't do that"...but aren't (despite plain-face evidence of other airports' ability to compete with larger neighbors).

Change won't happen any time soon either.

So, I'll just fly out of DTW for the foreseeable future.

I have a great passion for this subject, but why think about it and get upset??? Seems that all the power players and elected officials are completely happy with the current situation. <shrug> Oh well...

One of my biggest gripes Pete. Though we have the same issue down here. Thankfully voters recently rejected one of those hoppers who tried to get out of the State House into a County Commissioner seat while being investigated on felony bribery/corruption charges.

I agree that TOL needs a major stable low fare carrier to really make an impact. JetBlue is an option since they don't fly into any area airport. Southwest might be an option down the road, but the airport will need to pony up a revenue guarantee to make it happen. However, that isn't always a bad thing considering what else will follow. Southwest recently ended a revenue guarantee with Panama City, FL after revenues came in much higher than expected due to the Southwest draw. Wichita is about to transfer from AirTran to Southwest and they are paying $6 Million to Southwest to retain them. I wouldn't be shocked to see that market do amazing as well. The problem is there isn't enough cash in Toledo to make an investment in the future. Yes Southwest flies to DTW, but the presence isn't all that amazing. Though in Ohio they will now fly to Cleveland, Columbus, Akron-Canton, and Dayton. That leaves Toledo and Cincinnati as the two larger cities without Southwest service.

Disclaimer: The opinions in this post are that of my own and not that of Southwest Airlines Co.

I would love to see a new carrier with a network similar to Air Wisconsin in the mid 80s before they got swallowed up...or even USAir into the 90s. Regional aircraft connecting multiple small/medium/large markets across the Eastern half of the US. Think similar to the Southwest model but scaled down using 40-80 passenger aircraft (Dash 8 or ATRs). The break even load on these aircraft is exceptionally low which makes them attractive. The new models all fly at much higher speeds comparable to full jet aircraft and are exceptionally quieter compared to older turboprops/propjets.

However, flying to those airports you mention won't do much for connections without interline agreements in place. IND and CMH won't give you much since they are just spokes for the most part now. CLE is a small hub and DTW is all Delta. Though it would be interesting to see which regional markets have business interests as well as leisure interests that could support fares in the $59/99/179 fare bucket setup.

An operation like that is what I think might be the key to get things going again for TOL. Now to just find the money. LOL

Does anybody have concise information as to income and expense related to the airport? Is the city losing money, breaking even or actually profiting? Is there a burden to the community or to tax payers due to the airport? I would really be interested to know that. I have a feeling that information would be extremely difficult to simmer down and summarize as entities who control that information would put their own spin on it.

I hate to be a pessimist but in the new economy I do not see Toledo airport thriving with a major hub like Detroit less than an house away. I can't imagine all the expense related to such an enterprise. Maybe I am wrong, maybe the airport actually makes money, but if it is losing money and you take a real look at the future of aviation and logistics than shuttering the airport might actually be beneficial for the city’s ability to expand in reasonable directions that it can support.

I try to ask myself this... Would I take a risk and invest significant money and savings of mine in this enterprise? If that answer is a resounding "no" than why should the community of tax payers?

Dannes - no the city doesn't lose any money, they make $1 per year as that is the lease the Port pays them. There is no theoretical burden to the tax payers. All of the money made out there is spent out there. The FAA mandates this. I don't have the latest numbers on the budget. I will post them at the end of the month after the committee meeting.

Prior to BAX closing, the airport was turning a profit - I think the article stated that.

One thing everyone forgets, it's not just passenger service out there. You want out of town companies to invest in the area, you still need a vibrant airport for executives to fly in and out in the same day on their corporate planes. The way to keep the airport up to date with technology and keep up with wear and tear, it needs money from the FAA. Where do you get the most money from the FAA? The passengers and PFCs...the more passengers, the more PFCs, the more funding from the FAA. Repaving the runways at the airport employs around 200 jobs with all of the logistics that needed to go into it. They repaved the smaller runway a few years ago and are going to repave the main runway here in the next few months. Other projects still keep people employed....

We all want to keep jobs in our area right?

When is the lease up again? I will bid $100 a year for that contract - I can't do any worse that the Port Authority does.

February 2029 for both TOL and TDZ.

I thought you'd all like to know what the price of failure is:

Toledo Blade 2011: Port Board Chief Gets Pay Hike

The Toledo-Lucas County Port Authority board of directors Thursday approved a 5 percent raise, retroactive to Jan. 1, for agency President Paul Toth.

The raise from $170,000 to $178,500 was approved by an 11-0 vote following a closed-door executive-session discussion. Opie Rollison, the port board's chairman, said afterward that Mr. Toth's raise was granted because "all of his goals and objectives have been met" and its size was based on compensation that port executives elsewhere with comparable responsibilities receive.

---------

I begrudge no man a decent, hefty, or outrageous salary...but it must be commensurate with success. "...[A]ll of his goals and objectives have been met"???? Obviously, passenger service was not one of the goals...because there is no way in hell any type of goal was met.

To quote myself from earlier in this thread:

"Seems that all the power players and elected officials are completely happy with the current situation." -- oldhometown

Port Authority to you: It's all your fault.

Toledo Blade: Board sees no takeoff for Toledo Express--President says market won't support growth

It's your fault you won't pay a premium to fly out of TOL.

It's your fault if you don't like having to fly to Chicago, waiting an hour or two, then being able to fly east for business.

It's your fault your time and money are valuable.

Always....always....it's your fault. Not theirs.

Wow. I've never seen a group of "leaders" publicly act so defeated. I'm sorry. If I was a share holder of a company and there were executives talking like that, I would be asking for their head immediately and kicking them out on the street.

The idea by Opie on spending the $2.7M on the airport itself would fail. Why? They would use it in the way they have always done. Instead if they really wanted to make things pop they would use it as a revenue guarantee for a carrier that would make an impact - JetBlue or Spirit.

The Spirit operation out of DTW isn't what it use to be. They could very easily approach them with a very aggressive and favorable agreement to relocate all ops to TOL. Yeah they are the Walmart of the skies, but they put butts in seats. As for JetBlue they don't fly to any nearby city except Chicago so they wouldn't be competing with other stations.

The one thing I want to know. The airport was running budget surpluses for years, yet they didn't have any rainy day fund for when things turned ugly? Horrible leadership and planning there.

If freaking Wichita, Kansas can muster the support to raise funds for a revenue guarantee to secure Southwest Toledo should be more than capable. Of course, that is asking too much for leaders to actually...lead.

I saw it as a good sign (but all your points are valid, Sooner). I see this as a meeting where the good ole boys in charge have finally admitted that business is bad and they don't know how to make it better. I think they are waking up to a lot of things after discovering the thought-provoking TT threads on airport topics.

Since the port authority doesn't answer to anyone and they can undertake whatever projects they like -- such as creating buildings, expanding the airport industrial park, and running parking operations, I'd love to see them sponsor a bus service that goes to DTW (as previously mentioned by another TTer).

The New York City area has something called The Hamptons Bus, a very nice service that takes cityfolk to the beaches all summer long. We could do the same between airports. They should also get a water taxi up & running, from downtown to the Lake Erie Islands/Cedar Point.

Wonder why there couldn't be a "Jet Express" sort of stop from the docks or downtown to the islands?

My understanding is it still is a long trip. I think i heard over an hour and a half to get there due to no wake zones. Uses up lots of fuel too.

But that is how much money saved in gas for local folks to not drive to port clinton?

I would much, much rather take a boat to Cedar Point than drive -- same for "The Islands" as a destination. I would enjoy the journey, not really see it as a high-speed trip. Unless you own a boat, there are very few opportunities to ever see our portion of the river, the shipping port, the lighthouse. I'd like to cruise past all of that stuff and enjoy it -- then go on to margaritaville or whatever.

Lake cruises, stops at Windsor/Detroit for gambling, Mackinaw for a tour of the Grand Hotel, Milwaukee for beer tasting, Chicago to get mugged. Can go East to see Rock n Roll museum in Cleveland, the wine country of New York state. I am sure there are other decent places with touristy attractions.

I look at is as they have failed and really don't know what to do. The industry as a whole isn't doing that bad right now (Southwest just posted a record Q2 profit). It also shows just how poorly they manage the business. Back in the 90s/early 2000s the use to subsidize the airport with revenue from the Seaport. Then we see here the airport was actually turning a profit for years up until a short time ago. So what happened to all the profit? More than likely it got funneled back to other non-airport related projects.

As a whole the Port Authority is just a failure when it comes to running the airport. Their bad relationship with AirTran didn't really help in keeping them here. The thousands and thousands of dollars lost in advertising guilt (Buy Local campaign) could have been better utilized. It just doesn't really make sense how they let things get so out of control.

The BAX hub shut down had plenty of red flags a year or two earlier. When DHL shut down the massive former Airborne Express hub in Wilmington and started to reactive the old Cincinnati hub, they started flying 2-3 flights a day from TOL to CVG during the morning cargo sort. This should have hinted that DB Schenker was already working with DHL. Eventually DB moved all the US air cargo over to the DHL network and made the TOL hub irrelevant (though DHL does still operate 2 daily flights). At least the facility is being used today and hopefully we'll see additional air cargo increase.

The DTW bus service idea that keeps coming up is something that the Port Authority or any local gov't should have zero influence over. If people want it, let a private company start it up and fund it. However, it is going to be pretty difficult to figure out demand and schedules initially so there will be a loss that would need to be carried for months (if not longer). Considering some flights depart out at 5AM, you will need buses that depart at least hourly starting at 3AM or earlier. People that keep pushing the idea just really don't bother to lend much thought to the logistics and financial requirement that will be needed to make it viable. That NYC bus service is $45 each way, are Toledoans really going to pay for that? No.

As far as the water taxi/ferry service. Jet Express tried Downtown to Put-In-Bay and wanted to charge $120 for the trip. Just not viable at those price points in a price sensitive community.

Jet Express did it one time, on a weekday at noon, with very little prior notice given. I would have paid $120 for that trip ... but on a Saturday or Sunday! :-) Heck, we'd do it twice a year at that price ... on a weekend or holiday, not in the middle of a workday.