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Toledo Violence Reduction Effort

I just read this Blade article concerning an initiative that was taken by the city to curb violence. http://www.toledoblade.com/local/2012/04/28/Violence-across-city-must-end-gangs-told-1.html

My first impression is very favorable. I do wish they would have this type of dialogue with all younger students who are not yet in trouble. Many moons ago we had an undercover narcotics detective come to our school before I was a teenager who told horrific stories about what occurs to people on PCP. He also told stories about junkies as well. I still remember them to this day. I ran into more than my fair share of problems as a young man but as bad as I got I mostly steered clear of the more harmful narcotics, much in part to this officers frank discussions.

Of note from the article - When Dr. Barry Knotts, a trauma surgeon at Mercy St. Vincent Medical Center, showed a man whose head was blown away from a gunshot wound, men looked away.
"I know, and you know, if you're in a violent group, you're also a target," the doctor said. "That puts you at risk [of] meeting me in not a good way."

Also from the article - When Nicole Ross-Byrd spoke, the men stopped fidgeting, stopped yawning, and leaned forward.
"I'm a surviving mother of a murdered son named Christopher," she said.
Ms. Ross-Byrd was at home on March 3, 2008, deciding what to make for dinner, when she got a phone call that her 17-year-old son, Christopher Ross, was shot.
On her way to the hospital, she thought she would have to take some time off from college to care for her son.
She had no idea that, more than an hour before she arrived at the hospital, her boy — with whom she was in labor for 56˝ hours — was dead.

created by Danneskjold on Apr 28, 2012 at 09:10:27 pm     Other     Comments: 30

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Comments ... #

This will have ZERO effect on gang violence. Zero.

posted by Star56 on Apr 29, 2012 at 02:31:50 am     #   2 people liked this

The only way it will change is if people take back their neighborhoods, get involved, and get proactive. Sadly, most people put on their blinders and are only concerned about their little corner of the world.

posted by hockeyfan on Apr 29, 2012 at 04:02:06 am     #   1 person liked this

I do not see the approach in the Toledo Blade story as a cure-all for street violence, but it may make an impression on a few of these teenagers, at least for a few days or weeks. I also like that it injects a dose of reality into the minds of these teens in that the stylized, choreographed violence they see on television and films gets replaced with the gore and agony associated with real-life deaths.

Like hockeyfan, though, I see gang violence as a more systemic problem rather than a situation with simple solutions. Many members of these gang subcultures have some seriously distorted values, and there are many parents who have given up on these kids. Unfortunately, there are no quick fixes to the dysfunctional families that helped create these problems, nor are there any fast track ways to improve neighborhoods or create meaningful employment opportunities that can compete with the allure of making a thousand or two a week slinging rock or crystal. Of course, we seem satisfied with just locking up small time dealers in our failed War on Drugs, while in the bigger picture the consumer demand for street drugs will lead to another generation of young dealers looking to make fast cash.

Bottom line: There is too much profit with artificially high prices to see an end to the number of willing street-level entrepreneurs wanting to capitalize any time soon. "Taking back neighborhoods" can happen, but that seems to just shift gang and crime problems other areas. Gangs will continue to exist so long as the high profit margins in street drugs exist.

posted by historymike on Apr 29, 2012 at 08:36:54 am     #   2 people liked this

I guess I'll wait and see if this approach helps. It might, if, as an earlier article said, 2% of Toledo's population is committing 70% of the crime, target that 2% with everything you have. Harrass them (within the confines of the law) until you make it too much of a hassle to be associated with a gang.

posted by JeepMaker on Apr 29, 2012 at 10:21:41 am     #  

There's insufficient jail space. The Toledo Municipal Court and the Lucas County Court of Common Pleas court system are already over burdened. The police force in Toledo is at an all time staffing low. The Lucas County Sheriffs' staffing level isn't much better. The taxpayers will not pay any more in taxes.
Criminals know they will we OR'd if they do show up for court and most of them dont. "Failure to Appear" is rampant. If evey person sighted into court actually showed up the entire court system would come crashing down.

Until there are REAL consequences, the City's new get tough attitude has no teeth. The failure and cowardice of City and County officials to get this message across clearly to taxpayers is a very, very major part of the problem. Add to that the delusional CCW folks who think they actually make a difference in the crime rate and you have a perfect storm of creating an environment where crime can flourish.

posted by holland on Apr 29, 2012 at 01:10:08 pm     #  

Holland, do you know what the police (entire payroll) staffing levels are today as compared to say... 40 years ago when Toledo had a greater population? I do not but am posting that as I am curious if any TT'ers know how to track that down.

I once read about 3-4 years ago that TPS (the teachers and staff) employed twice as many people around that time period then they did around 40 years ago when the population was twice as large. That could be a misnomer but considering how many sick days and all the accrued time off that many public employees get these days I would not be shocked.

Staffing numbers relative to population would be interesting if it was provided. You could argue that today’s population requires much more effort but I am not so sure. Crime, drugs, alcohol and domestic squabbles are not new.

I still believe that sending strong, often graphic images and powerful messages to young people concerning violence or drugs is at least one thing that could be done coupled with many other solutions. It would certainly not solve a problem but might help. They are certainly going to have their fill of influences when they reach the age when the headphones go on.

posted by Danneskjold on Apr 29, 2012 at 03:07:14 pm     #  

For whatever it's worth, Chief Diggs told me Toledo has the lowest police to citizen ratio of any "major" city in the country.

posted by upso on Apr 29, 2012 at 03:36:19 pm     #  

Not to worry. The police to citizen ratio will improve as people move to the burbs.

posted by max on Apr 29, 2012 at 05:03:37 pm     #  

How do you convince a young kid that working a legit job at minimum wage is better than "gang" activity worth literally hundreds or thousands of dollars?

posted by hockeyfan on Apr 29, 2012 at 09:27:22 pm     #  

A legit career path equals a life and job long after one's gang years are over. Plus one typically doesn't get shot at or fucked with police while they're on the job. It's definitely a solution for some people.

posted by upso on Apr 29, 2012 at 09:31:56 pm     #  

Have you ever tried to explain that to a young punk? Better luck forcing water into a rock. Unless you can really connect with that person.

posted by hockeyfan on Apr 29, 2012 at 10:42:51 pm     #  

Actually... yes I have. It's much easier than you'd think. :)
"connecting with that person" is what it's all about. And it's something we all should consider doing when it feels right.

posted by upso on Apr 29, 2012 at 10:55:13 pm     #  

Merely fluff from the political machine that gives the illusion of them "doing something."

posted by 6th_Floor on Apr 29, 2012 at 11:14:07 pm     #  

toledo needs to realize it is not a major city and stop using that comparison

posted by Hoops on Apr 30, 2012 at 07:36:07 am     #   1 person liked this

One of the standard measures of policing is the number of officers per population size. Police per capita is the term.

Here's how we compare:
In this report the relevant numbers begin at page 9. In 2009 Toledo had 1.6 sworn officers per 1000.

http://www.toledopolice.com/Annual%20Reports/2009%20Annual%20Report.pdf
From the report:
The entire nation was looking to President Barack Obama’s stimulus bill to help city and state police agencies
hire officers or avoid police layoffs. $1 billion in aid was set aside for this purpose but a staggering $8.3 billion was
requested by departments throughout the country. Toledo, which already had the lowest officer per capita ratio
of all major Ohio cities at 1.98, slipped to 1.6 officers per thousand citizens. “For a city of our size, (my officers)
have their hands full,” Chief Navarre was quoted by FOX news in June of 2009. Efforts to do prevention work
were severely hampered and the vice and detective bureaus were especially hard hit. Felony persons crimes
took priority while property crimes bore the impact of 17 detectives being reassigned to cover street patrol.

Here is the latest U S Department of Justice 2010 Crime in the United Sates Report. In the front page summary it states that the 2010 national average was 2.4 sworn officers per 1000

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/police-employee-data

posted by holland on Apr 30, 2012 at 09:27:08 am     #  

We must be really, really behind on cameras per capita, because Chief Diggs wants cameras, not officers.

posted by justread on Apr 30, 2012 at 09:58:53 am     #  

HISTORY MIKE AND HOCKEY FAN;"TOLEDO IS "NUMBER ONE" in the entire nation for thefts of metal.! And I believe "ALL THE WRECKING YARDS SHOULD BE FORCED TO REPORT BUYING METAL FROM ANY suspicious persons,also appliances..

SINCE THE NEW HOUSING ON ACTON ST WAS BUILT,I went to a number of neighbors and asked them if they had had any problems living on Angola Rd. near the "Acton St. housing project.? next to us they have had no less than "8" brakeins and 1 they took some $200.00 worth of tools

"The cops caught them"!!but the prosicuting attorney refused to take charges or take it any farther..!!

All together I have been told there have been nearly "50"thefts or breakins since the housig poject became rented or filled..

"STILL CONSIDERING BUYING ON ANGLOA ROAD.."?

MY CADILLAC WAS STOLEN FROM OUR DRIVE on the 13th,windshield & pass.windows busted out and trunk damaged & r/f wheel. "Lucas county"found it the next day and had it towed by "Abco towing" to their lot( I won't even start to tell about the Hell I went through trying to get my car out of their lot )

SO NOW,its getting fixed and I feel there will be another attempt to steal it again.."So what do I do,"set outside with a gun,? install motion detector lights...Someone tell me the best solution pls..? I have a new key fob but I don't know how to program it.?

Since the cops don't seem to come around at night,maybe someone will let me borrow or buy a motion detecting wild life camera..?

"But", even then "WILL THE PROSICUTING ATTORNEY FOLLOW UP AND THROW THE BOOK AT THEM..? I Some what agree that inferred camers placed around the areas homes could be a great asset..?

I MIGHT ADD "I AM ARMED AND I KNOW HOW TO AND "WILL USE DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT MY SELF, HOME AND PROPERTY"!

posted by blacjac687 on Apr 30, 2012 at 01:40:35 pm     #  

You probably shouldn't be armed..

posted by hunkytownsausage on Apr 30, 2012 at 01:50:17 pm     #   2 people liked this

"Hello,Charles Bronson" WE NEED YOUR SERVICES HERE ASAP AS "MR CURSEY"..!

posted by blacjac687 on Apr 30, 2012 at 01:53:09 pm     #  

I am not sure why I am pointed out with your metal stealing stat.
Where did that statistic come from?
Until people start watching out for each other and caring about what goes on in their neighborhood, things will only get worse.
The scrap yards cannot really determine what is stolen and what isn't. I did see at omni source that they only take 1 catalytic converter per day from the same person. Does this help them from getting stolen? I do not know. If you could drive to another yard less than an hour away and sell multiple ones, then it wouldn't.
I feel for you getting your car stolen. It is a royal screw job for sure. How to prevent it? You can only take so many measures. Car thefts are very low on the priority list and that sucks. I good alarm helps, but isn't a guarantee.
I'd love to hide in the trunk with a gun and wait til it does get stolen. That would be justice.

posted by hockeyfan on Apr 30, 2012 at 02:14:31 pm     #  

More ranting from blacjac.....shocking

posted by Hoops on Apr 30, 2012 at 03:13:23 pm     #  

Tanks Hockeyfan; the 1st in the nation for stolen metal was on the "yahoo"news popup that comes on when I go online buddy... "I'LL GIVE SOME SERIOUS THOUGHT TO BEING INSIDE OF THE TRUNK"..!

YA KNOW HF, BUNGIE STICKS SUROUNDING THE CAR TIPED WITH SOMETHING THAT WOULD GET THEIR ATTENTION". what do ya think..? I know I have to post "no trespassings sign's" first, right.?

in Viet Nam "EXCREMENT"WAS USED TO CAUSE INFECTIONS..!

posted by blacjac687 on Apr 30, 2012 at 03:25:26 pm     #  

Tanks Hockeyfan; the 1st in the nation for stolen metal was on the "yahoo"news popup that comes on when I go online buddy... "I'LL GIVE SOME SERIOUS THOUGHT TO BEING INSIDE OF THE TRUNK"..!

YA KNOW HF, BUNGIE STICKS SUROUNDING THE CAR TIPED WITH SOMETHING THAT WOULD GET THEIR ATTENTION". what do ya think..? I know I have to post "no trespassings sign's" first, right.?

in Viet Nam "EXCREMENT"WAS USED TO CAUSE INFECTIONS..!

posted by blacjac687 on Apr 30, 2012 at 03:25:29 pm     #   1 person liked this

"HOOPS" IF YOU DONT LIKE WHAT I WRITE
"PISS OFF" OR, YOU COULD PASS SESAMEE STREET AND GO STRAIGNT TO HELL! AND DON'T READ IT IF YOUR SUCH A WHIMPY ASS.!

posted by blacjac687 on Apr 30, 2012 at 03:32:02 pm     #   1 person liked this

wow

posted by upso on Apr 30, 2012 at 03:39:05 pm     #   4 people liked this

Somebody is a little upset, cant say as I blame him though. But shooting at people walking past the house is a little extreme I think.

posted by Linecrosser on Apr 30, 2012 at 04:34:53 pm     #   1 person liked this

During my two tours in Vietnam I never encountered any "Bungie" sticks. We did have a problem with Punji stakes however. We didn't even have bungie cord back then.

posted by Wydowmaker on Apr 30, 2012 at 06:27:01 pm     #  

Those are sticks that snap back after you spring them.

posted by Linecrosser on Apr 30, 2012 at 08:38:15 pm     #  

Note to blacjac....Big Bird , Ernie, and Elmo say hello you freak

posted by Hoops on May 01, 2012 at 07:42:53 am     #  

Another aspect of gun violence...people can become wheelchair bound.

In D.C., another measure of gun violence: Men in wheelchairs
Article with story

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/in-dc-another-measure-of-gun-violence-men-in-wheelchairs/2012/09/07/0638cfaa-e169-11e1-98e7-89d659f9c106_story.html

posted by 55pointplace on Sep 10, 2012 at 10:29:18 am     #  

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