Toledo Talk

Threats and bullying for street names?

Ugh...as if city council doesn't have bigger fish to fry, now we have someone threatning to bring in "thousands of activists from around the country" if a street isn't named after Joe Wicks?

Scott said he is “forewarning” City Council that a protest in which he has “invited thousands of gay and lesbian people from around the country” to participate is planned for noon, June 1 at One Government Center [located at 640 Jackson St.].

The article goes on to discuss what sound like very valid reasons why a street should not be named after Wicks:

At the time of his death, April 19, 2010, both the Lucas County Treasurer and the Auditor reported that Wicks owed $30,954.83 in back taxes, and that those taxes have never been paid by Wicks’ estate.

In a May 4 email to Sarantou, City of Toledo Commissioner of Building Inspection and Acting Director of the Department of Inspection Chris Zervos wrote, “The misuse and abuse of its last owner, Joe Wick [sic] has rendered the building unusable in its present state.”

And...

“It’s the same case with Joe Wicks. Like it or not, God rest his soul, Joe Wicks has left a reputation as someone who did not maintain his property. That’s a fact.”

Entire Article

created by mom2 on May 11, 2012 at 10:45:41 am     Local-Politics     Comments: 46

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Comments ... #

It's absurd

posted by upso on May 11, 2012 at 10:49:25 am     #   1 person liked this

The thing that gets me about this is that Lair Scott lives in Chicago, and he's making a threat to bring in "thousands of people from around the country" to protest regarding a street name in Toledo, Ohio.

Why should any of those people's opinions be relevant to city council regarding the street name?

If it appeared that council was balking at the street name only because Wicks was gay, I would find that disappointing.

However, it would appear that there are legitimate, documented reasons why he may not deserve such a community honor.

Isn't there someone else from Toledo's gay community, past or present, who perhaps might deserve the honor more?

posted by mom2 on May 11, 2012 at 10:53:35 am     #   2 people liked this

Tell him to bring his demonstration. Tell him the city fire department has a brand new hose and they can take turns sucking on it.

posted by madjack on May 11, 2012 at 11:17:19 am     #   1 person liked this

Name a street after Joe Wicks??!! Seriously? Every bar the guy owned was a sh*thole. He never invested a penny more than was necessary to keep the doors swinging on the hinges. The back taxes issue should be more than enough reason not to do this.

I could go on with hundreds more reasons - most dealing with his character but mom taught me that it's wrong to speak ill of the dead.

RIP Joe. Hope it's not too hot down there.

posted by Foodie on May 11, 2012 at 02:23:59 pm     #  

Amen, Foodie. I, too, will refrain from speaking ill of the dead, but there is no reason to give municipal honors to Joe Wicks. If this is about honoring someone from the LGBT community (haven't read the article, and I apologize for that), then there are plenty of other people far more deserving.

I could similarly make some unenthusiastic comments about the character of Lair Scott, but will again refrain. Come on, Toledo -- isn't there someone here in town who'd be a far better representative of the LGBT community? Jesus....

posted by luvtoledo on May 11, 2012 at 03:13:56 pm     #  

Don't worry about Lair Scott or as he's known in some circles Liar. He imagines himself a national or regional gay activist, but even here in his "hometown" local gays tend to ignore him. If even 10 people showed up I'd be suprised. Council, if they feel they need to rename streets, should come up with written guidlines for doing that. A moratorium on any renaming until that is done.

posted by fred on May 11, 2012 at 04:00:47 pm     #  

Agreed, Fred, that hometown folks blow off Lair Scott. What's aggravating is that he gets more traction in hometown media than other locals far more deserving of being listened to. Grrr...

posted by luvtoledo on May 11, 2012 at 04:33:04 pm     #  

Fred makes a good point about city council establishing guidelines, and I agree with the above posters: there are far more noteworthy LGBT figures who could be honored than a bar owner. By this logic people like Ken Pompora and Rob Croak should get streets named after them.

Blecch.

The only bar owner I think who deserves a street named after her was Rusty Monroe, whose club brought jazz musicians to Toledo from around the world. I think Tedrow Road was renamed "Jazz Avenue" at some point, and this befits someone whose work elevated Toledo to prominence in jazz circles.

posted by historymike on May 11, 2012 at 04:35:57 pm     #   2 people liked this

Tell em to come and clean up and beautify our streets and parks while there at it.

posted by Linecrosser on May 11, 2012 at 06:52:27 pm     #  

If Missouri can put a bronze bust of man in the state capitol, who called a woman he didn't know a slut for four days on the radio and ask her to post videos online of her having sex, then I guess its OK to name a street after a gay guy who didn't pay his taxes or keep up his property.

posted by holland on May 11, 2012 at 08:28:32 pm     #  

holland posted at 08:28:32 PM on May 11, 2012:

If Missouri can put a bronze bust of man in the state capitol, who called a woman he didn't know a slut for four days on the radio and ask her to post videos online of her having sex, then I guess its OK to name a street after a gay guy who didn't pay his taxes or keep up his property.

Yeah, but staying with your logic, it should be in Missouri.

posted by justread on May 11, 2012 at 09:03:35 pm     #   1 person liked this

Why is an ex toledoian pushing for this? Should be someone that lives in the City. I get so tired of people that don't live in the City of Toledo limits telling us how to run this city.

I don't think any streets or landmarks should be named after anyone, just confusing. The Cherry Street bridge is still the Cherry street bridge to me. If they rename Huron St, Joe Wicks Parkway, it will still be referred to as Huron Street by me.

Joe didn't even own Ceasars at the time of his death, so I am not sure why the back taxes on the building or shape of the building matter. Joe sold that building and someone (from out of town no less) owned it at that time. If you own a building with back taxes, they are to be paid at closing (a bank requires it if there is a mortgage) and if there is a cash deal they need to be paid by the owner at closing or the new owner assumes them. In this case, I would assume the new owner assumed the back taxes.

While I am opposed to renaming any street, something I find iritating is Gary Resnick opposing this. He doesn't keep the parking lot or building that LaSalle cleaners is in up.

posted by classylady on May 12, 2012 at 11:48:10 pm     #  

As Founder of the first ever Toledo Gay Pride Day, Sunday, June 25, 1995, I have much to say about the comments I've read.

This is NOT about the targeted building and this is NOT about Lair Scott. Most of you failed to mention Joe's contributions to the LGBTQ community. He was a mentor to many and now, those people are coming out with the POSITIVE side of Joe, most of you, again, fail to remember or even know of. Some of you, drunk at one of his bars or ousted from one of his bars, still hold a grudge against him.
We're now uniting in a way we've never done before to HONOR this man you scorn in his death and have no idea how he physically suffered before his death.

Joe brought in millions of dollars in revenue to Toledo and not just in his pockets. He supported so much in our community that most fail to recognize like feeding the homeless, raising funds for HIV/AIDS, giving people jobs that were down on their luck, wheeling a damn baseball bat when the Toledo Police Department should have been keeping safety for LGBTQ people in his area and there are dozens of other positive issues about Joe, too many to explain in this thread.

On Friday, June 1 at noon, One Government Center, I will have my fifth civil rights march in Toledo and this one is closer to my heart than any of them. We'll not just be protesting the HOMOPHOBIC downtown business men who have placed a SMOKE SCREEN upon Joe's honor, but other facts like Mayor Bell NOT signing the Ohio Mayor's Petition for Freedom of Marriage and other issues Toledo itself fails to offer the LGBTQ community. Domestic Partnership?? LOL! Where's our RIGHT to marry? etc, etc ...

So many thousands of Toledoans have exiled themselves, included hundreds and hundreds of LGBTQ community members due to the fact that Toledo has nothing to offer them. In fact, besides myself, Crystal Bowersox has done the same thing in the name of survival. All of you will be hearing from Crystal on these issues in days to come.

I don't live in Toledo (again, neither does Crystal), which is sad, but I've been an activist in Toledo since the age of 14. It's documented. Would I move back to Toledo? You bet I would IF there was something tangible for me to respect the Glass City again. Why am I an outside activist? Because NO ONE has stood up to the microphone to take any leadership. Toledo Pride?? A gender exclusive group, like many many organizations before them and it's all about Lexi's bar and filling her pockets with the "hope" she attempts to lay onto a apathetic group of people. I NEVER piggy backed on Toledo Pride. Get your facts str8. My march was set in June of that year and it was LEXI who offered me her date and then, she turned on me. Lexi and I have history together going back to 1995. Just ask her. Equality Toledo?? When was the last time any of you have attended one of their meetings? It's because they DO NOT have public meetings. I could go on and on but all this territorial pissing would be cured if we just had a neutral community center, and this is how it all started about.

Joe showed me a number of buildings he was going to offer me for a community center way back in 1995. Somehow, lack of interest in the LGBTQ community and APATHY caused it to be on hold for many years. I wanted to name the center after Joe. When he passed, I waited 2 years to see if anyone would come forward to honor his legacy. Not one person did until I realized that a street could be named to honor him. I mean, do any of you know the names and reputations of those honored thus far?? I think not.
That's when I approach Councilperson Steve Steel with the idea and then he proposed it to council but not after people wanted to target Joe and bring him down even in death.

All of you should be ashamed of yourselves for continuing the negativeness that Toledo is so well known for.
This is not even about Joe any longer. It's now about LGBTQ rights in Toledo, that so many of you are ignoring.

Peace and Pride,
Lair Scott
A Toledoan ;)
PS: I don't even see anything in ToledoTalk topics that has anything for LGBTQ community members to discuss their needs and issues. What does that say, mom??

posted by LairScott on May 16, 2012 at 08:47:44 pm     #  

^ meow!

I look forward to hearing what Crystal Bowersox may or may not be saying in the future.

I understand your frustration, but I have to say, scolding people who were never involved in your drama is not a good way to get more folks to support you. "Lack of interest within the LGBTQ community" seems to have sunk one of your previous plans ... how is that the fault of whatever non-LGBTQ people who may be posting/reading topics here?

I don't scorn anybody, in life OR in death. Geez. I'll post something just to show I care, OK?

posted by viola on May 16, 2012 at 09:39:47 pm     #   3 people liked this

Getover yourself Lair. This is TOTALLY about you. I've been in Toledo since 1980 - when I was 23 years of age and very much a patron of Toledo's downtown gay bars.

I saw first hand what went on and knew many on the "inside". You paint Joe as a Saint. I'm sure he must have had some redeeming qualities - but I never saw them.

To say that he contributed millions to the Toledo economy - I'd like to see the facts to prove that. His establishments were shitholes. Filthy, not maintained, bathrooms that made most of us choose the alley out back.

I also saw the way he tried to run his "competition" out of business. Let's get real here: there have always been enough gay bars for Toledo's gay population - by population #'s alone, it just isn't that large. There was never any need to try to run your perceived competition out of business.

Coming here to this forum (for the 1st time?) and blasting those of us who live, work and do our best to enjoy (survive) Toledo when you live.....where? Chicago?

Your (mostly) incoherent ramblings ring so hollow and are meaningless to the vast majority.

You don't live here any longer. Go find a cause - or parade - to jump out in front of wherever the hell you are.

As for your June 1 "event".......<YAWN>..........

PS: I, for one, could give a fat rat's ass about Crystal Bowersox. Another carpet bagger - much like you.

posted by Foodie on May 16, 2012 at 10:34:17 pm     #   16 people liked this

AMEN!

posted by nits on May 16, 2012 at 10:52:11 pm     #  

What does Q stand for?

This man let his beautiful building fall into disrepair. There is no way in hell that you can convince me he deserves to have his name on a street, let alone on a street surrounded by Presidents and Great Lakes haha

posted by BusterBluth on May 17, 2012 at 12:17:59 am     #  

BB: I had to look it up myself, according to Wiki "A popular variant adds the letter Q for those who identify as queer and are questioning their sexual identity as "LGBTQ", recorded since 1996."

posted by GTVT on May 17, 2012 at 12:30:16 am     #  

Just because there isn't anything about the LGBTQ community members to discuss their needs and issues, doesn't mean there isn't support or interest in supporting that community.
If no LGBTQ person posts a topic, why would a straight person start a topic about needing to know about a bar, location or hangout?
By the way, I believe that there was overwhelming support from the Toledo Talk crowd for same sex partner benefits for city employees when Mayor Bell suggested it.
And why does there NEED to be a place for LGBTQ on here? Sure, they are welcome to post anything they want, but what if they are already posting their hearts out on another, more specific message board?
I don't really know what you're looking for, or why Crystal Bowersox suddenly became Toledo's Ambassador or even an authority on the topic, but as far as I'm concerned the city politicians are poor in supporting anything but their own careers here. If you don't know that by now, you really don't know a thing about Toledo.

posted by hockeyfan on May 17, 2012 at 01:56:00 am     #  

If I am going to be ashamed of myself, I might as well earn it:

I find the fact that Mike Bell sometimes dresses like a member of The Village People an implied endorsement of LGBTQ. Or the Doobie Brothers. Or both.

posted by justread on May 17, 2012 at 08:28:31 am     #   8 people liked this

LiarScott, I have to agree with Foodie here. We're working with the city to find a way to fix what he left behind at 725 Jefferson (Caesar's). He was no different than the deadbeat landlord that jerry rig things to get by on the cheap and shut his tenants up when they complain. The building would have been better off if he'd never been in it to begin with.

posted by Johio83 on May 17, 2012 at 08:43:52 am     #   3 people liked this

Standing ovation for your post, Foodie.

posted by dell_diva on May 17, 2012 at 08:46:17 am     #   1 person liked this

Standing ovation for your post, Foodie.

posted by dell_diva on May 17, 2012 at 08:46:17 am     #  

Yeah, what she said. Good job, Foodie.

posted by madjack on May 17, 2012 at 09:37:14 am     #   2 people liked this

Did the property get that bad while he still owned it?

posted by Linecrosser on May 17, 2012 at 11:21:12 am     #  

I had to do some research to find out who the hell Lair Scott is. Living in Toledo for nearly 50 years has been no help, because although I have been involved in mainstream community activities, I didn't happen to make the acquaintance of this great Toledoan. Come to find out, he is the same person who started the petition that Ernie and Bert from Sesame Street should get married. Gee thanks. You are now the moral compass of Children's Television Workshop. If the blog post "Sex with Jesus" wasn't provocative enough. Look Lair, you may have been born in Toledo, but you are no more a "Toledoan" than I am a resident of Chicago. We have a name for people like you: "Escapee." The bottom line is this: We don't name streets after people on a whim, no matter how gay or straight that they happen to be. There are enough voices that suggest that this gentleman may have been a bit of a bum, as much as he was a bit of everything else, including Messiah to the "LGBTQ" community. I am sorry to his family and friends for his loss. It was not my loss, nor was it a loss to most of OUR community. (And I am not talking Oak Park here, Ziggy.) But hey, I am a little strict on the naming thing. I don't think that we should name things in Toledo after Danny Thomas for his many contributions to the city of Memphis, Tenn. The short list of people who do deserve this honor would not include Joe Wicks. Nor would the really, really, long list.

posted by justread on May 17, 2012 at 11:51:22 am     #   4 people liked this

justread posted at 08:28:31 AM on May 17, 2012:

If I am going to be ashamed of myself, I might as well earn it:

I find the fact that Mike Bell sometimes dresses like a member of The Village People an implied endorsement of LGBTQ. Or the Doobie Brothers. Or both.

The Doobie Brother are pure 70's solid gold. Can we name a street after them? China Grove Ave perhaps? That is a good name for Rockin' Down The Highway.

posted by dbw8906 on May 17, 2012 at 12:18:27 pm     #  

I like that. A lot. And as a Beatles fan, I'd like to formally request:
Why Don't We Do It In The Rd.

posted by Johio83 on May 17, 2012 at 12:30:18 pm     #   2 people liked this

The following street renamings have a better chance than the Joe Wicks proposal:

Shrewsbury becomes "Wurzelbacher"
Central Ave east of Lagrange becomes "Steinem"
Townley becomes "Finkbeiner"
Indian Rd. becomes "Tom Scholl"
Cherry St. in front of CCHS becomes "Gene Kranz"
Upton becomes "P.J. O'Rourke"
Ontario north of Cherry becomes "Jameel Farrar"
Woodville Rd becomes "Cousino Road"
Water street becomes "Dillen Drive"
Broadway becomes "Lopez Lane"
Pilliod becomes "Milton Bennett Way"
Secor near Sylvania becomes "Kip Diacou"
Perrysburg-Holland becomes "Anderson Road"
Monroe St. east of Alexis Road becomes "Walt Churchill"
Bancroft becomes "Gradkowski"
Dorr St becomes "Bernard Culp"

posted by justread on May 17, 2012 at 12:49:34 pm     #   2 people liked this

I don't know who Joe Wicks or Lair Scott are...and after reading this thread, I'm very happy to keep it that way...

posted by oldhometown on May 17, 2012 at 01:20:55 pm     #  

Johio83, if I could "like" your comment a million times I would lol.

posted by dell_diva on May 17, 2012 at 01:23:54 pm     #  

posted by toledolen_ on May 17, 2012 at 02:08:13 pm     #  

Didn't they name a park after Jamie Farr? He's done more for Toledo than Joe Wicks.

posted by Linecrosser on May 17, 2012 at 02:28:30 pm     #  

^^^^^^ China Grove - very appropriate!

posted by justareviewer on May 17, 2012 at 02:38:44 pm     #  

What about Gregg Knott?

My understanding is that not only was he a local business owner who advocated for the gay community, but he also was a big part of the revitalization of the Old West End.

posted by mom2 on May 17, 2012 at 03:29:56 pm     #  

Someone forgot Katie Holmes, Adrianne Palicki, Alyson Stoner, and of course Jim Jackson, while we're at this.

posted by anonymouscoward on May 17, 2012 at 08:07:05 pm     #  

Jackson is moot.

posted by justread on May 17, 2012 at 11:25:00 pm     #  

I'd suggest Sanzenbacher, but I'm pretty sure mail would never find it's way there due to misspellings.

posted by Johio83 on May 18, 2012 at 10:09:55 am     #  

I don't even see anything in ToledoTalk topics that has anything for LGBTQ community members to discuss their needs and issues. What does that say, mom??

I don't even look at that list of topics...everything appears on the main page anyhow. (Except politics, which was bumped off the main page for awhile though it is currently listed again.)

I couldn't tell you a single topic that is listed there, other than politics, and I bet 99.9% of ToledoTalk users are the same way.

posted by mom2 on May 18, 2012 at 10:44:17 am     #  

... I didn't even know there was a list. There's a list?

posted by Johio83 on May 18, 2012 at 10:47:29 am     #   1 person liked this

click on tags from box ion right on main page.

posted by Linecrosser on May 18, 2012 at 11:21:37 am     #  

Joe showed me a number of buildings he was going to offer me for a community center way back in 1995. Somehow, lack of interest in the LGBTQ community and APATHY caused it to be on hold for many years. I wanted to name the center after Joe. When he passed, I waited 2 years to see if anyone would come forward to honor his legacy.

If discrimination were the reason there was a lack of an LBGTQ community center in Toledo, I would have a problem with that, as would many other local residents.

However, when the reason is a lack of interest from the population the community center would be intended to serve, it makes one question the need for such a center.

posted by mom2 on May 18, 2012 at 11:36:37 am     #   3 people liked this

The protest was today - I just noticed that the Blade updated an article about it.

According to the article, there were 20 protestors.

http://www.toledoblade.com/local/2012/06/01/Toledo-protesters-seek-same-sex-marriage-law.html

posted by mom2 on Jun 01, 2012 at 02:47:56 pm     #  

According to the article, there were 20 protestors.

What a fail.

posted by oldhometown on Jun 01, 2012 at 08:02:19 pm     #  

mom2 posted at 02:47:56 PM on Jun 01, 2012:

The protest was today - I just noticed that the Blade updated an article about it.

According to the article, there were 20 protestors.

http://www.toledoblade.com/local/2012/06/01/Toledo-protesters-seek-same-sex-marriage-law.html

Land of misfit toys pic.

posted by justread on Jun 01, 2012 at 08:31:28 pm     #  

Again: <YAWN>...............

posted by Foodie on Jun 04, 2012 at 08:58:18 am     #