"November Surprise" Coming?

It will be fun to watch.

Well I have always maintained I thought the race would end up a close one. However because of the economy I have always thought that if it were to be a landslide election it would be more likely in Mitt's favor than the President's even with the electoral map favoring the President.

You are right, it will be fascinating.

You have hit on one thing the DNC has chose not to promote their younger leaders. A lot of their hopes had rested on Anthony Weiner but no one could see that implosion coming. For some reason the younger Democrats seem more content to work on campaigns rather than run for office. They certainly could have used the Occupy movement to build some young leaders but they didn't organize them. Their seems to be a feeling that today they must "pay their dues" before taking up the party banner. The youngest leader they have that's had a great deal of success is Gov. Cuomo but one must ask if his name recognition makes him an exception to the rule.

On the opposite the GOP has a lot of young leaders in the limelight. Boehner isn't old by Congressional standards, you see people like Lugar getting voted out, and even with a Presidential nomination going on it was Republicans like Christie, Ryan, Jindal and Rubio who stole the headlines despite not being in the race. Likewise the Tea Party has been effective at organizing within the party and is seen as a key constituancy needed to win even in decidedly blue states like MA.

"DNC has chose not to promote their younger leaders" it's the same reason the Republican party is shutting out it's youth movement (the Libertarian Party) because both Occupy and the Libertarian movement threaten the Neo's (on both sides) strangle hold on jimmying the system for paychecks.

I cant wait, I can see Obama declaring martial law or doing something to stay in power if things don't go his way.

In other words, Liney said "HERPTY DERP DERP DERP FARTBAMA DERP!"

Ya know, when anyone who didn't like BushCo suspected he'd pull the same shit, you accused them of having Bush Derangement Syndrome or some shit like that. Like if someone said Bush was going to pull Osama's body out to show everyone the week before the election, or there'd be some sort of staged terrorist attack and they'd suspend the election, all that would come out of your mouths was how that person was an America-hating moonbat terrorist.

But now when we just substitute Obama's name in for Bush and change things around a tiny little bit, it makes perfect sense to think this sort of shit about Obama and everyone is supposed to conveniently ignore/forget the comments from 2004 and 2008 about Bush and the Republicans rigging everything to stay in power.

FUCK YOU. FUCK YOU AND EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOUR DUMBASS, IGNORANT, SHORT-SIGHTED, HYPOCRITICAL, REVISIONIST, RACIST, SEXIST, HOMOPHOBIC, EASILY MANIPULATED, PROPAGANDA-BELIEVING ASSHOLES.

I cannot fucking believe how fucking far your heads have to be up your own asses to NOT have cognitive dissonance from this. I cannot understand how human beings can be so stupid as to not be able to THINK about what they're saying, let alone ask questions or do even the most rudimentary research when presented with something that should outright cause otherwise rational human beings to ask "wow, is this true?".

Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with your brains that once some idea gets pounded into it, you can never ever question that idea ever again? Are your brains born set into "write-only" mode, or is that something you learned from your idiot parents?

The "youth" "movement" in the GOP is to Libertarian Party as "I can't believe it's not butter" is to actual 100% dairy butter. They look sort of the same, taste sort of the same, but are not the same thing, because the RON PAULites and Teabaggers have their target areas of small-l libertarianism (like shrinking Defense by getting the hell out of all these foreign countries and entanglements and chopping a pile of government regulation of business), but then they want MORE government in the lives of people they DON'T like (anyone who doesn't share their flavor of Christianity), whereas actual libertarianism and the big-L Libertarian Party includes government out of the business of marriage.

As for the Democratic Party not promoting the #Occupy movement, the (D)s are effectively the left side of the Republican party these days as many of the conservatives who got booted out as RINOs are effectively conservative Democrats.

I actually have a serious prediction for an October Surprise.

I think that Presdient Obama will announce that he is approving the final construction plans for the Pipeline coming down from Canada.

The timing will be such that he will look like he is really doing what he can to create jobs.

It will be kind of a Sistah Souljah moment as he makes the environmentalists the heavies and tries to swing the independent votes his way before Romney can respond effectively.

Of course he will do everything he can AFTER the election to slow it down or make it impossible to complete.

You do know that pipeline will do nothing except send Canada's oil across the USA to the Gulf where China will pick it up and take it home, right? And coincidentally jack up OUR gas prices since Canada's not going to be selling that oil to us?

AC that is the stupidest thing you've said so far, why would they send it to the gulf coast and load it on ships for China, when they can send it west across Canada and ship Direct across the Pacific? They already said if the pipeline don't get built they will build a pipeline to Vancouver and ship it all to China.

Liney, let me explain this in simple small words for your two working TEA-steeped brain cells to process and understand.

With no pipeline to the Gulf or the Pacific in place, the Tar Sands oil goes to Midwest refineries (like the ones here in Toledo).

If they build Keystone XL, there will be a couple thousand temporary construction jobs (as in, when it's done, here's your last paycheck and a pink slip, everyone!) while they build it and maybe a couple dozen jobs for monitoring it afterwards. Then all the Tar Sands oil goes to the Gulf for EXPORT, or some refining down there. It can go east to Europe and Africa or west through Panama to China and Japan. And you can bet China will be happy to buy that oil regardless.

If they don't build Keystone XL and instead ram a pipeline across the Canadian Rockies to the Pacific, it'll be put on supertankers to China.

Either way, if they build either pipeline, YOU GET FUCKED BECAUSE GAS PRICES IN TOLEDO GO UP.

Do you comprehend this? Earth to Liney, Earth to Liney, do you read, over?

Also, higher oil/gas prices in the Midwest will kill jobs here. So yeah, be a typical Tea-tard and root for short-term gains while ignoring long-term goals.

What makes you assume I am a member of the tea party? Geesh AC you need to get a life.

This must be a picture of AC as a child.

Gee, let's see now, how about the rabid hatred of Obama, the comments about him being a socialist, the bitching about spending, the constant mention of Liberals (with capital L), the mentions of "socialism", the hatred of unions... For being a "linecrosser" you sure are spewing the Tea Party Line. The only way to tell you're NOT a Teabagger would be to do extensive DNA testing.

He is a socialist, hes surrounded himself by socialists. Linecrosser refers to the fact I live in Michigan but cross the state line damn near every day to shop, visit friends etc.
I would say with your atagonistic arguements about everything just about anyone else seems to think you seem to be a pinko communist as well and seem to love Obama and what he stands for as well as will probably campaign and vote for him in November. So I would say your a socialist as well and a card carrying member of the American Communist party.

You don't have a fucking clue what socialism is, you sad, pathetic idiot. I don't know if you drank the Fox News Kool-Aid or the TEA or both, but only ignorant morons seriously spout the "OBAMA IS A SOCIALIST" bullshit. What makes him a socialist, O great dumbass? Please enlighten us with your well-thought out and completely defensible argument. I could use a laugh or two.

Could it be the people around him who stated publicly that they admire Mao or claimed to be communists? Maybe its the policies coming out that punish capitalism and promote socialism? I don't know but from everything I've heard from him so far leans that way, including his upbringing.

And AC stop being such a ignorant ass, no one appreciates your constant name calling and spewing of hate speech.

More bullshit.

Got some citations? Or are you just going to say stuff without documentation? Frankly, your argument SUCKS and you've cited NOTHING. If you want to argue he's a socialist because someone around him, whom you cannot name, supposedly said they admire Mao or someone around him claimed to be a commie, then I can totally claim RON PAUL is a white supremacist because I have a nice picture of him with the webmaster of Stormfront.org. And by extension I claim all the Republican party are white supremacists because they allow such people to be in their party and openly associate with them! Perfectly acceptable according to your Liney-logic (or what passes for logic).

Oh and zero citation of the policies that "punish capitalism" and "promote socialism"? In other words "I, Line-dumbass, do hereby arbitrarily declare all policies that have happened under Obama to punish capitalism and promote socialism, because I said so, and I refuse to specify exactly what policies these are and how they actually punish capitalism!"

You don't have any argument. You just make assertions without any substance and since they have no substance you can't back them up or defend them. Hence the only outlet you have is to attack me because I'm not being the sweetest, nicest, most respectful person. Here's a free clue: It's not name calling and "spewing of hate speech" when someone makes false and/or baseless assertions and/or cannot and/or will not back their claims up and someone else calls them out on it. It's merely being a jerk towards an asshole who stinks up the joint by spewing bullshit. I'm sorry that I don't have infinite patience or tolerance towards dumbasses like you who have nothing better to do than sit on the Internet and post comments about how Obama is a commie socialist because you don't like his skin color or because the voices on WSPD or Fox News tell you so. You see, Liney, right now the difference between you and the nutjobs who argue that the moon landings were faked is nil. You're not intelligent enough to bother checking anything; you're just a knee-jerk puppet for right-wing interests. You got brainwashed with Obama hate and you're not going to waste one minute questioning who might be pulling your strings. I, on the other hand, have already stated here, several times, that the two-party system is bullshit, that Obama sucks, but the only alternatives presented by the current system suck harder, etc. etc. etc. only for you to NOT FUCKING COMPREHEND THIS and keep up with the "AC loves Obama and therefore is a pinko commie socialist liberal" crap. I've made my arguments as to why the Tea Party is the same thing as the GOP and why they suck ass and why I really REALLY dislike their bullshit and why I think they're hypocritical, including specific cases whereby they say "we're the party of small government and freedom" then enact more laws and regulation (which is BIGGER government) to restrain the freedom of people to marry, for example. Your claims boil down to "because".

There's a reason I have a modicum of respect for the likes of dbw: it's because if he's challenged, he'll back his ass up with some arguments and facts and figures that amount to more than "because". It's as if we were playing baseball and a rules question came up and one of us pulled out the rulebook or tape from a game or phoned an umpire... the other person might not agree with the interpretation or application of said rule, but it's not like you and your "because I said so and because you're a jackass".

Bah, what am I saying, you'll just reply with three lines of unrelated bullshit about how I'm stupid and a stinky doo-doo head meanie because I won't let up on you for not questioning yourself on why you believe what you believe and citing actual credible sources to back your beliefs up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rm-Fx5jTbPE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiYjTcpNdUE&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fi5NX_Y0cow&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yf7rPmPQ64k&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thzVdw2MQCQ&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySM63ES8t4U&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqKnVr3I9q8&feature=related
If you will even bother to watch or just spout out with more liberal crap flowing from your mouth, whatever I'm Done responding to you directly, I will now talk about you and not to yo, because your dont deserve my attention.

I would argue he is a 70's republican with heavy Marxist economic leanings and a judicial streak bent heavy in fascism.

Maxine Waters is a socialist.

Yup, Liney proves he is a pathetic piece of shit douchebag who can't hold up his end of the argument! Proven right in my prediction! He posts a pile of video that supposedly explains everything and a couple lines of retort, vs. any sort of intellectual response.

Let's see here... looks like you went to YouTube and searched for "obama socialist". Way to go you lazy pathetic fuck.

First video: Selectively edited video of some guy, BEFORE OBAMA WAS INAGURATED... "we kind of agree with Mao that political power comes from the barrel of a gun". HEY, SOMEONE WHO AGREES WITH A QUOTE FROM MAO, GUESS THAT MAKES HIM A COMMIE SOCIALIST! Also love the invocation of Godwin from the person who posted that clip. So now that you broke the Nazi barrier, let me just cite this: http://www.snopes.com/quotes/goering.asp and say that I agree with Goering... OH SHIT LOOK I'M A NAZI BECAUSE I AGREE WITH SOMETHING A NAZI SAID!

Never mind that the quote is widely misinterpreted or misstated.

Political power grows from the barrel of a gun.
— Mao Zedong

This quote has been widely misinterpreted, however. Mao explained further that, "Our principle is that the Party commands the gun, and the gun must never be allowed to command the Party."

"Speak softly, and carry a big stick." -- Teddy Roosevelt.

OH SHIT I'M NOW A REPUBLICAN CAUSE I AGREE WITH SOMETHING TR SAID! FUCK! GODDAMN IT! SHIT ON TOAST!

Fuck you, Liney, you disingenuous piece of shit. If you want to play this game, then fine, you agree with shit Teabaggers say therefore YOU ARE A TEABAGGER and there's no denying it. Else, if you want to claim you're NOT a Teabagger despite agreeing with Teabaggers then your argument about Obama is INVALID.

Do I really need to do the other videos? Because #2 is the same thing, in the same vein as Fox News was caught out selectively editing her speech, TWICE (http://mediamatters.org/research/201205160003) #4 about Obama wanting to be a dictator is easily invalidated by one GEORGE DUBYA BUSH HIMSELF:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aD3xfT0c99g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A09Ha5M82us
Your best Republican buddy Bush = Obama then!

#5 is a Glenn Beck show excerpt and I'm sure he never ever selectively edited anything he showed. Nope, nosiree.

Video #7 is posted by "TeaPartySanDiego"... but you're not a Teabagger, Liney, not at all, you don't drink the TEA or the Kool-Aid...

Don't have time to go further in-depth to debunk Liney's bullshit and I don't really want to because I don't want to watch more stupid selectively edited videos that "prove" his point (his point being about as sharp as a pile of dogshit).

"Obama's a socialist because Glenn Beck and Michael Savage say he's a socialist and say he surrounds himself with people who agree with with things Mao said." --Liney

"Liney's a Teabagger and a disingenuous, lying, illogical dumb-ass because he listens to Teabaggers who are disingenuous, lying, illogical dumb-asses." -- AC

Did a fart blow through here? Someone need to light a candle or something, because I think a walking piece of shit passed by.

dbw > I would gladly take Ron Paul over Obama if there was no other choice, just as I take Romney over Obama, because there is no other choice. I wish we could have scrunched them all together to make an ideal candidate, none of them were perfect.

Liney walked past a mirror and because he's not intelligent enough to be self-aware thought it was another person.

Liney I feel Obama and Romney are one in the same, both tools of the elite who profit from wars and taking from the working class. Both of them will jack up the budget by war/"programs"/tax cuts and the tab will be left with the working class to pay for. Al Qaeda won on 9/11 when they allowed the elite from both sides of the isle to raid our wallets. Debt is far more dangerous to the long term safety of our country than Iran ever will be. Greece was destroyed without a bullet ever being fired.

And on the subject of tax cuts, I'm for them at a Federal level. I think taxes should be higher locally where they can do the most work for the citizens who pay them and not be shipped to the Sandbox. I'm for 15% taxes but only if everyone gets 15%. There is no such thing as a "job creator", companies exist to make money not employee people. If 15% is good enough for Mitt and his boys it's good enough for me, that is where he loses my vote.

Can't vote for Romney, Gary Johnson will get my vote.

The "flat tax" BS is BS. You want 15% for everyone and local taxes increased (presumably including sales taxes) which is going to make the rich richer because it costs the rich the same amount of money for basic expenses as the rest of us (food, clothing, etc.) and anything they do above shopping at Walmart they can easily decide to not do anyhow, so giving them a tax cut isn't going to make them magically buy a second yacht just the same as raising taxes or keeping them the same as they are now isn't really going to factor into the decision. And of course if you are really truly flat tax then there's no deductions or whatever for the middle class and poor who are now suddenly hit with a bigger tax burden at the same time you just cut taxes on the rich.

How about we cut corporate welfare (subsidies) on almost everything and actually get back to something resembling a "free market"? Bonus points if we can work out how to deal with other governments subsidizing their shit to destroy our manufacturing and markets.

Well since Johnson has no chance of ever beating Obama I'm gonna vote for Romney even with his faults he's better than Obama.

As far as taxes goes they should just throw out the unfair antiquated tax code that takes a year to read and 23 lawyers to interpret and go with a 15% flat tax, adjusted every 4 years to adjust for changes in income/spending. They also need to chop the living crap out of the federal budget, the federal budget should never exceed more than 10% of GDP. Our national debt is another thing they need to get a handle on, we should be bring it down not increasing it. That should be reduced by at least 2% every year except in cases of emergency as defined by law. Paying for votes by borrowing money is just plain stupid and the American public should be outraged, the entire American public.

Liney says: "Both sides are bad, so vote Republican."

No thanks, I don't care to vote for a pile of hypocrites who tell me they're all for smaller government and less regulation and then try to enact a theocracy that tells people who they can't marry and what they can't do because it's against the will of Radical Christian Jesus.

Wow this thread really drifted

ACey tends to do that to a thread.

AC I was not arguing for a flat tax (which I might support) but the fact that I don't agree with the mantra that "job creators" should not have a lower tax rate than working class Americans. If Mitt finds 15% to be equitable for his peer group it should be fine with ours. Close all deductions and lower the tax rate. You earn it, you pay it.

I've said for a long time (with numerous post on TT) END PUBLIC FUNDS FOR PRIVATE COMPANIES! Business should rise and fall on it's own merits not to propped up (or penalized) by handouts/the tax code.

It depends on how they got shares of stock in the first place, if it was part of your payroll compensation wasn't it taxed when you got it? IF you bought the stock with your money, that money was taxed when you earned it, wasn't it? If its a stock in your 401K then its tax deffered than you will be paying taxes on it later. Paying 35% on money you already paid taxes on seems a little unfair. Its still a matter of unintended consiquences when all these loop holes are formed, by politicians seeking a way to protect themselves and their friends or people who vote for them. Start over with the tax code and you could save billions just in the IRS department alone.

HAY LINEY!

Romney is going to go do a fundraiser at the home of a guy who has a couple paintings by one A. Hitler. along with statuary of Castro and Lenin... so since according to you Obama is a socialist because of the people around him, that means Romney is a Nazi Communist, right?

http://maddowblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/06/05/12072164-the-rich-arent-like-you-and-me

Right, Liney? RIGHT?

"tax differed" is a scam. Pay it when you earn it and then keep the government's grubby hands off if it. If people actually seen immediately the pound of flesh the government was taking they might be a little vocal about it.

Differing money leads to waste and corruption, I don't care how you made the money. Like I said above if people really felt the impact of the current tax structure TODAY, and not pine away at the hopes the government wouldn't take their money in the future things would change.

I agree DBW Roth IRA's are the way to go, deposit after taxes and they dont get anything when you start to withdraw later. I had heard rumors they were going to get rid of them, haven't seen anywhere that its true. The only thing about tax deffered that makes sense that when you do draw on those accounts you should be in a lower tax bracket. I had also heard that some politicians wanted to go after those deposits as well. Again rumor that I haven't seen any hard evidence of.

It would sure be something if the conservatives in this thread actually could spell "defer" and "deferred" when talking about taxes, as it would actually make their arguments at least look slightly more intelligent.

Of course, the real crime is going from putting money in actual pension plans where the people in the plan get actual votes on what the plan holds and thereby proxy votes as shareholders for the stock they own to this 401(k) bullshit where your employer takes a chunk of your check and hands it to some fund manager at some megabank-investment corporation to do with as they please, whereby your money buys stock that the FUND MANAGER controls the proxies of and votes for corporate policies that support them and their ends, not you.