Someones first impression of Toledo

The whole blog post is crackpot hippie gibberish. I wouldn't give a second thought to this organization's opinion of the city. When someone starts rambling on about finding one's self and the meaning of life, I tend to lose interest.

We may have roads that look like Baghdad circa 2006, neighborhoods filled with homes that could be knocked down, schools failing, police force numbers lower than all other Ohio cities, but apparently we MILLIONS for a kick ass park downtown for people to walk their dogs...

@deli_diva_ as a former crackpot hippie who now tows the corporate line I couldn't disagree with you more.

http://toledowastewalker.wordpress.com/ - I linked to this article on my blog thanks. It's interesting...not 100% right, but interesting.

Really fantastic pictures on your blog OK. Added you to my Google reader so I won't lose track of it.

I have tons of pictures waiting to go on the blog. I have posted tons of the pictures and locations here over time....I figure it's high time to organize it all. That being said, articles and blog posts like the one shared are something of interest....

@dbw8906 - how the hell do you expect to make downtown a better place to live? If the downtown fails, the region fails.

I've always done a lot of driving for work, here and in other states. Any time I took the old "blue highway" into a metropolitan area, it was ALWAYS an unattractive wasteland of tiny used auto lots, storefront churches, drive-through liquor barns (where permitted) and sometimes the jail or juvenile detention facility.

Cities do a lot to spruce up certain areas and to make them look like a cool destination -- that's what the Visitors & Convention Bureau is for. People who want to randomly pick a highway exit and cruise around observing real life, instead of "lifestyle centers", may find stuff that doesn't look all that appealing, but still provides an income for the residents.

I myself get a kick out of seeing how many old-fashioned corner taverns are still in business in Toledo neighborhoods. The [crappy old] architecture is always a giveaway, and I wonder how many generations of immigrant families used to get beer & popcorn there.

The chain of events as outlined in this blog don't make sense and lead me to believe it's a bunch of baloney. They left Toledo on the highway in search of Lake Erie. Instead found Davis Besse, which is directly on the lake. Kept going in search of this mystical lake and found Maumee Bay State Park. Still no lake? Must have been dark huh? I'm guessing they were never in Toledo, but rather in Sandusky and just high as kites!

The city is full of blight. It does look like a run down city.

I assume most of you travel to other parts of the country. Do you honestly think we can compete with other similarly sized areas?

I spend most of the Summer back east in the Newport RI/Providence area. On any given summer evening, you can walk through downtown Providence and encounter a Jazz concert on one street, a dance troupe from Brown on another corner, A RISD group doing art on another. Newport is so idyllic as to be surreal. The street are filled with young, literally beautiful people from dusk till dawn.

A 45 minute boat ride and I am on Martha's Vineyard or Nantucket for the day.

Coming back to this bombed out forsaken area creates a reactive depression for weeks.

But hey...we have a fine Zoo :(

Amen dbw8906.

Of the big Ohio cities, ours is the least appealing across the board.

Nice post dbw, although I'm sure you'll be flamed as being "negative" and "blind" when all you're doing is telling the truth.

I'm so sick of the "if the downtown fails, the region fails" argument. Downtown Toledo failed a long, long time ago. And unless I'm missing something, the region (Perrysburg, Maumee, Sylvania) seems to be doing just fine.

@dbw8906 I travel to Cleveland quite often.I have been getting hotel rooms on a regular basis Downtown for about 8 years. In that time frame, not only have hotels rooms increased, my average rate has nearly tripled. I used to be able to get a room for $35 on priceline for a 3 1/2 star or better. Now it's $100.When I ask around as to why, they tell me the town is full of people in for a day or 2 getaway from the surrounding cities. Cities like Pittsburgh, Columbus, Detroit, Cincinnati, Indianapolis, Louisville. I'm not saying Toledo will ever be a tourist destination, but somehow downtown Cleveland became the pride of the city in 6 years. i don't think there's any harm in trying to get something going rather than admitting defeat. Every city that has more old homes than people has the exact same issue, it doesn't mean we should give up.

Did you actually read the blog? Here's an example:

I have absolutely no answers to these, or the hundreds of questions I haven’t even formed yet. But if I start with the feeling of extreme discomfort brought on by the blight we entered into, if I keep paying attention, questioning, exploring, maybe things will begin to come clearer.

Emphasis mine. If she wants to feel extreme discomfort there are easier methods than driving through Toledo in a quest to find Lake Erie. I was tempted to recommend she use a cheese grater on her nipples, but have managed to restrain myself. So far.

ahmahler - I like going to Cleveland as I'm a rock and roll hall of fame junkie, but the population loss is clear http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/census/2011-03-09-ohio-census_N.htm & http://blog.cleveland.com/architecture/2012/05/regional_sustainability_consor.html

Back in 2007 it was the #5 declining city in America (before the Great Depression V2.0). So my only thought about hotel prices is that they have to charge more to cover the losses they are losing in volume.

PS - I'm not saying give up but chasing the magical carrot of "lets beautify downtown" while the surfs (or slaves who work to pay the bills) suffer degradation of services or loss of them completely while government gives the funds to the magical project of the week so their buddy developers can cash in. It's failed this city for decades.

If you want to be a city that attracts jobs (ie families) you might want to have functional roads and schools first. Having a hipster park project doesn't mean a damn thing to potential families when your child can't read at a 3rd grade level in 6th grade.

dbw8906-Population loss is what happens in this area. It's common to a ton of areas. There are ways to rebound. The Cleveland phenomenon is separate of population loss, but building up the downtown and subsequently surrounding areas (Ohio City and Tremont) has sparked not just tourism, but civic pride, which has made Cleveland a relocation destination for young, educated people tired of Brooklyn or Chicago. Speaking as someone that chose to be here from California, there are a lot of great reasons to be here. Unfortunately recognition of our history and resources takes a backseat to criticism of local government and in fighting. Civic pride is one of the biggest draws to a city. If a community hates itself and doesn't think it can go forward, it won't. Period.

How can a population have pride in a city when it keeps failing the residents on the BASIC things it must provide.

Woo hoo Van Halen booked a show at the Huntington Center, oh btw my taxes went up when my house value plummeted, they want more levies, my street looks like a warzone, violent crime is sky rocketing, and I can't send my children to public schools. But that park sure is neat-o!

You want civic pride? Give the citizens something to be proud of before you try to be world class in the green space competitiveness.

violent crime is sky rocketing

Link please?

Taxes are higher in the suburbs and almost of them are asking for more as well.

Agree that something sounded off about the chain of events as described in the blog post.

Agree that something sounded off about the chain of events as described in the blog post.

Apologies for the double post...oops!

dbw and ahmahler, I think the confusion here is the difference between "the city" and "downtown." You're both right - yes, the city is losing population, and yes, downtown is growing.

It's like in Toledo - Southwyck is part of the city, but obviously nowhere near downtown. And, like Cleveland, the city of Toledo continues to lose population, but downtown Toledo has had a pretty significant increase in the last few years.

Really Mr. G I know you where here last August when we had almost one shooting per day.

Last year, there were 73 percent more shootings in the city - and 44 percent more homicides -- than in 2010

"Taxes are higher in the suburbs and almost of them are asking for more as well."

Yeah, and most of the suburban school districts are rated Excellent or Excellent with Distinction and the streets aren't shitty... maybe because the suburban government actually knows how to use the tax money wisely as opposed to Toledo's government?

Oh shoot, I'm criticizing local government instead of focusing on recognizing resources and local history. Ahmahler warned us about that...

If you think a city can survive with a couple of revenue generating blocks while the rest of the city falls apart and the middle class who can now less than ever afford to go downtown dies, please cite an example. So create swanky restaurants where the commoners can't afford to eat while you slash funding for their kids schooling and then raise their taxes to pay for a park most of them don't care to visit. Sounds like you care more about getting the Perrysburg/Maumee crowd into Toledo on Friday/Saturday night and just say "#%&^ off" to the struggling people who live here 24/7.

A new jazz bar and a swanky resturant will not save this city. And if you want to spend the next 20 years worth of pet project money trying to make it happen while the middle class neighborhoods fall apart, don't cry me a river when when their are no middle class families left because you care more about the waterfront than the home front.

It's called a death spiral, things go from bad to worse until in the end it just collapses. We ain't there yet, so don't count us out. Public services, roads, "beautification", all these things make a city nice to live in but JOBS, JOBS, JOBS are what bring people to live here. And how do you get JOBS? You bring companies here that hire people. This needs to be one of the most business friendly places around to attract companies, the city got complacent when we had all the big manufacturing and technology (as it were) companies here in the past. If you look it up I know you can find some large companies that are just gone or left. Doehler Jarvis (poof), Toledo Scale (left), Devilbiss (mostly gone or left), Owens Illinois (left), Autolite (gone), Champion spark plug (left), Sheller-Glober (gone), thats all I got from Wikipedia, I'm sure there are others. Point is those companies and others like them are gone or we are going to see more leave, and those are just the large employers, I haven't looked for medium or small ones but I'm sure they are out there. I bet most of those were union jobs as well, the collusion between the politicians and the unions are part of the problem when we look at why these companies left or collapsed. A&P unions balked at cuts, company closed all the local stores rather than deal with it, my dad worked for them for 25 years. I won't goon and on with anymore companies that left or closed as I'm sure you all can add to my meager list.
The point being jobs bring people which bring prosperity through having a larger community. Look at the census we have been bleeding population for years, that affect tax income, which throws us into that death spiral in the first place. Bad management (government), only makes it worse and just puts off the inevitable. Open everything to the public let them see exactly how this city works and who is doing what, let them clean out the rats nest of politicians and vote in people that will make those tough choices. If something isn't done it will only get worse, I don't know what happens when a city declares bankruptcy, I'm sure its not pretty. I think Bell as unpopular as some of the things he's done has taken some steps in the right direction, unfortunately he's human and some people have insinuated that he too has some cronyism going on in his administration. Who knows I am not an expert, and these are only my opinions.

dbw8906 "A new jazz bar and a swanky resturant will not save this city. And if you want to spend the next 20 years worth of pet project money trying to make it happen while the middle class neighborhoods fall apart, don't cry me a river when when their are no middle class families left because you care more about the waterfront than the home front."

I have a friend that is getting ready to open a "swanky" restaurant downtown that has certainly not had money thrown at them nor had much support from the city (something linecrosser alludes to, lack of business support), but there is an excitement for this place to open that continues to build positivity, and to think that the middle class can't afford it-try to get a table at J Alexanders or Outback (chains). Why don't we think we can support eclectic chef driven restaurants, but we have no problem spending more money at lesser chains?

Linecrosser, in regards to the companies you named, you're kind of naming them in a vacuum. In a lot of those situations, they were absorbed by larger companies and moved - not really much Toledo can do about that no matter who is running the city.

Autolite was bought by Honeywell, Devilbiss was bought by Champion, who was bought by Cooper, and now part of Federal Mogul. O-I was bought by KKR when they bought out their shareholders, and is actually an oft-cited example of the harm private equity groups can do.

So really, it's just a case of bigger boys coming to town and swallowing up a lot of our big employers.

damn it. I liked my own comment. It was meant to go for ahmahler. Just want to clarify that I'm not trying to rep myself or something. Although I don't actually think you can do that on this site, but still.

ahmahler - I applaud your friend for his entrepreneurship and hope he is successful. I'm not a Toledo hater by any stretch of the imagination I just wish the city would care about the people and their neighborhoods as much as they do the waterfront. BTW I've been here long enough to know it's the same mumbo jumbo we all heard about the docks being our savior.

Here is my summary of the article (geographical discrepancies aside):

We stopped in Toledo. We didn't look for parks, shopping centers, or highly regarded restaurants that are actually in Toledo to try to enjoy. We don't know how to use a smart phone to find a place in town that is worth checking out.

We got off at the wrong exit, got scared, and got back on the highway. We found a park outside of town that had people doing people things. We found some false historical connection (Wikipedia: Maumee River) in the park name to imply that it has more vitality than any other area around it just because it is on the lake (despite the fact that looking at any map will reveal dozen of communities along the lake and river).

Lastly, we'll make a false comparison to the decline of domestic manufacturing and the state of affairs of American universities (one's failure is actually the result of exploiting developing economies and disproportionate trade policies, the other's failure is the result of subsidization and inadequate primary schooling).

Is this supposed to be creative writing? Pulp-journalism? A diary? This article is a perfect example of irresponsible blogging. I hope, for the sake of the people fronting money for the documentary, that the content is not as hopelessly biased and opinionated as that blog entry. I'm no full-time Toledo cheerleader, but if you plan on opening your mouth in a public forum at least know what you are talking about or talk to someone who does.

An out-of-town friend of mine visited a few weeks ago. He was born and raised here, but moved away 10 years ago, when he was 30, so he vividly remembers Toledo. We drove through town a few times while he was here. Several times he mentioned Toledo looks more run-down than ever. Of course I agree with him. He grew up in one of Toledo's worst slum areas, Vistula.

I agree with dbw8906, spending a single dollar on a dog park, while the roads are in horrible shape, summarizes just how corrupt and/or ignorant Toledo's leaders are and have been for many years.

If people downtown want to walk their dogs, walk near the OC building toward the Oliver House, or cross the river and walk @ International Park/Marina District.

I thought the dog park was not being funded by tax dollars?

Oh back off, brainswell. You'll give someone a complex or something.

Oh fucking ***barf***.

I wish I'd written that line.

I have just had the honor of clicking the plus toggle for the fifth time, thus turning the color of the post a nice Kelly green.

I'd like to nominate OldHomeTown for one of the top five most succinct, accurate and aggressively descriptive one line comments on ToledoTalk for the year 2012.

Another restaurant? Nice that someone is opening something new, but another restaurant? I'm talking big corps who hire 250-500 at a time.

Jhio
Yeah some of the companies got swallowed up but that happens in a free market. If the city was such a great place to own a business maybe they would of kept operations here. I'm also sure that there are other companies that I didn't mention that do fit the description I gave a above.

They must not have seen the bridge. It's a destination bridge, after all.

The Reynolds Rd. Corridor looks like HELL! I drove down that Sunday and thought wow- I wouldn't buy Southwyck for anything the way the surroundings look! Need something done- the city needs to spend simple money to make it look better- that alone is marketing indirectly!!!

Other than maybe low-income housing, Southwyck probably doesn't have economic value for a developer, even priced at $0. Therefore, I'd rather see that area remain vacant than build more welfare shelter.

To say the city "needs to spend simply money" to make the Reynolds corridor look better = tax us more than they already are. No thanks...I want to give as little as possible to the crooks at the Port Authority and @ Jackson & Erie.

For the bridge, that was ODOT, not Toledo

"simple money" would mean using the work force they already have by beautifying the coorridor 6th floor- not taxing... pulling weeds, trimming things... SIMPLE things... NOT TAX....dumbass

The city has chosen to abandon the them, along with other neighborhoods around town. So I don't get angry with the residents who walk away from their homes in those areas, the city clearly doesn't care about them. Why continue to pay taxes on a piece of land that the city doesn't care about improving, cut your loses and move on. It's the only way governments are going to get the message, don't stand for being abandoned for jazz bars.

But hey you tell those poor people when they look out the window at the blight of a neighborhood they have invested their fortunes in that the city is gonna spend MILLIONS for a sweet park by the water, I bet it fills them with sunshine.

Jim, the city already has to rely on volunteers to plant flowers and pull weeds in the various concrete pots around town. Since it concerns you so much, you should volunteer instead of asking people who have buried the city to now fix it via doing what you deem simple things.

http://www.toledoblade.com/local/2012/05/15/Volunteers-step-up-to-beautify-Toledo-s-neglected-flower-beds.html

Hey Jim, instead of complaining about it here, "step up" like the mayor says and pull the weeds yourself.

Taking a step back from what we should or shouldn't do, I love that all of the ranting of this thread is based on one person's OPINION of Toledo. Slamming their blog and writing style because we don't like what they have to say about their impression of our city cracks me up.

Who knows how many people even read the blog? TT probably just increased the viewers in a few days what it would have normally received in a year.

I actually live in South Toledo myself, and do maintain several areas that the city should in our area. So don't tell me to step up, I am doing my part and probably the most pro-toledo person you will ever meet

If you are the most pro-Toledo person I'll ever meet, then prove it by pulling the weeds along Reynolds Road that obviously are bothering you.

I do my part, via cleaning my block and sewer grates when it rains. Along with every other diligent homeowner, I also pay property taxes to fund city services such as pulling weeds along major city thoroughfares.

Not sure if we're talking about the same things, but there were some prairie-style grasses planted along Reynolds Road. What might look like tall weeds is actually a new approach to landscaping.

I can see there is a mowed grass path behind the tall grasses (just like there was when they first installed the plantings). Some of what you see was designed to be tall grass, right up against the road.

If it forces the baby-stroller crowd to stay out of the busy street, I'm all in favor!

This afternoon, I noticed city crews were clearing the weeds from cement pots @ Cherry & Summit and along Dorr Street. So Jim, it may just be that they haven't made it yet to the Reynolds area.

Funny as hell... I just stumbled across this on the internet. Read the commentary below the picture. There are some pretty funny observations from outsiders. We might just think we are prettier then we really are.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/zoomar/2610560052/

Rofl on the up side we have beach volleyball, a good zoo and can get a chilidog 24/7, wonderful.

Read the commentary below the picture.

I did. What a howl! Thanks for the link.

YIKES! Interesting find Danneskjold.

http://www.toledoblade.com/local/2012/05/27/Hotels-in-Toledo-fall-far-short-of-elite-status-1.html

Toledo is a gritty, blue-collar town...get over it already.

6th_Floor, sorry! I just posted the same link. Didn't realize you had already posted it.

"Of the big Ohio cities, ours is the least appealing across the board."

I think that Canton,Akron and Youngstown are much worse than Toledo.That is my impression of those cities.

"Rofl on the up side we have beach volleyball, a good zoo and can get a chilidog 24/7, wonderful."

You are selling Toledo a little short.You forgot the Mud Hen stadium,Art Museum,Huntington Center,Metro park system and now a new casino.

I thought of this thread over the weekend. Ended up driving in downtown Pittsburgh while going home.

Sadly I couldn't believe the difference in the two cities. Everything was so alive, lots of younger people just walking the streets. The buildings from the big towers down to the in-between shops looked well updated, clean, and full.

I truly love Toledo, but this really put some things into perspective. Often it's mentioned here what we could do, endless discussions on a possible future. But here I was lost driving around, but really soaking in what a big city looks like that's making it work.

The feeling was nice, energetic, and promising.

Just my $0.02. Hope everyone had a good weekend, it's good to be back in town.

Just repeating the comment on the posted link.

was this your first time visiting another city? pittsburgh's population may be close to ours, but it also has a much bigger colleges, pro sports teams etc. with a MUCH better economy and housing market. Not sure it's really fair to compare the two cities.

Just wanted to say ... though it's easy to ridicule the positive attributes we have here in Toledo ("yay! We have a zoo! We have an art museum!" etc.), there is a multiplier effect that goes along with each institution.

Where there's a great library, there will be a hundred or more professionals who care deeply about providing free books and services. The art museum staff may be small, but hundreds of patrons support art initiatives and major exhibitions and classes. The Metroparks system has something for everyone, and hundreds of people who care deeply about land preservation, wildlife, and recreation hang around the parks and hold fundraisers. With a national wildlife refuge and Fort Meigs in the vicinity, those are additional groups of interesting people who keep things going.

A hundred nature-loving people here, several hundred art patrons there, zoo crowd plus library fanatics plus the botanical garden/urban farm crowd ... those are the people who live here and who make this an interesting place to live. They shop at the farmer's market and support all manner of unusual restaurants.

In comparison, many Ohio towns have just a small historical society, one library with limited hours, and a couple of ballfields that make up their "park system." We are blessed to have so many outlets for creative, caring people.

The decay of Toledo is brought into focus when you travel to other cities. As described, the vibrancy and youthfulness of other cities stands in sharp contrast to the local area.

I think we should compare ourselves to other towns, not cities. That way, we come off looking much better!

My old neighborhood outside Chicago is fabulous these days (but was fairly rundown all through the 1980s). In order to enjoy an oasis of fabulousness, you have to drive through 20-30 miles' worth of decayed housing, obsolete factories, and retail death zones in three directions.

In all honestly, if Toledo just would build a few more libraries, parks and downtown condos...it finally could reach it's real potential.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/05/11/college-grad-jobs-major-metros/2149915/

Toledo scratched it's way to 94th out of 100. One spot above Detroit.

If you click the numbered link on the right side of the page it shows each city.

This isn't really about perception...it's reality for job seekers.

A few more libraries, parks and downtown condos are really great for government employees and construction people. Nobody else, however. It's hard to appreciate the library when you're so poor you're wondering where you're going to live a year from now.

We need to stop paying expensive and unionized government workers to maintain parks, and just let 'em go back to seed. People around 'em will maintain 'em if they feel motivated, and will enjoy the benefits thereof.

GZ like the sand lots of the 50's/60's?

LC - Its just exactly the opposite in terms of suing if there is a park/playground accident. Governments or municipalities have to meet recognized standards for park/playground maintenance including equipment choices and ADA accessibility in order to meet insurance requirements and/or receive any grants or other funding aids. They are generally immune from lawsuits if they meet the standards. You, on the other hand, as an individual or as part of a group of individuals are NOT immune from being sued if you took it upon yourself to maintain a park/playground area. Hence, you don't see or hear of many successful law suites regarding public playgrounds or parks. I don't think the Village of Holland had ever been sued for anything park related. I've never heard of the Metroparks, with its vast holdings, of having any serious maintenance issue complaints or suits. I wasn't able to find the number for annual visitors but I know it is high. Surely someone must have gotten a sliver somewhere?

Should you go the route of taking over a park to maintain, you'd better have plenty of liability insurance.

Its so tiresome to hear the bias about "little darling's" and pampering etc. and the general ignorance of how government works. Anything goes to fit preconceived notions I guess.

Sorry JR. The post I was responding to was removed while I was searching for Metropark visitorship numbers.

Holland your right, forgive me it was wishful thinking that a neighborhood could maintain a park for their children to play in. I guess there is no alternative to Metroparks and city maintained facilities. They do have an effect on visitors to the city, first impressions and all that.

Careful, BusterBluth. Your most recent comments may be deleted from this thread. Take your off-topic, non-local political bullshit to the politics forum. Or something like that.

Who said that leaving parks to the hands of local citizens would result in no parks at all?

And what downtown amenities are missing? Outline them.

"Who said that leaving parks to the hands of local citizens would result in no parks at all?"

Not me.

"And what downtown amenities are missing? Outline them."

You need a bulleted list? Well, if nothing solidifies that you have no life, this is it.

I put my request politely. Not enough, it seems.

If you want view of Lake Erie, drive north on I-75 into Monroe County, MI, get off at the village of Luna Pier. There's a free parking lot by the lake. You'll only be 11 miles from downtown Toledo as-the-crow-flies. No swimming, fishing or boat launch there.

There is a boat launch but its further south in the area, I remember people swimming on the beach south of the walk out pier there, and people fishing off that pier. Unless they changed things since 2 years ago.

That's correct, Starr15. Toledo cannot renew. Too much capital has fled; Toledo is really too common in culture; the inertia of the fall is too large; our government is purely predatory; and finally, the ongoing depletion of petroleum just dooms the auto industry upon which we depend in nearly every metric.

Moving forward by decades, Toledo will see a bottoming out due to access to fresh water and all the renewed water transport that that implies. Toledo's port will become more important. Ships may even be built here again. But that's a renewal only in a small part, long after our economy will undergo a huge collapse, even considering today's problems.

GZ sounds like the plot from the Road Warrior.