Post Casino Opening Affect on Smalll Business / Community

Can imagine hotels and eateries nearby will have a boom.

I would guess it would take a good year or two to notice any trends. Even then, how would you know that the casino is for sure the direct result of the business closing? Kind of like the smoking ban. Weren't there bar owners who claimed that they had to close their bar because of the smoking ban, when in fact the business had been failing for awhile? If you're a shitty business owner and your business is failing, it's all too easy to blame the casino and not yourself.

Also, don't forget - lots and lots of local people are employed by the casino. That's not something that should be looked at as a negative.

I can't imagine you will see any changes...but if you do it won't be noticeable for a while.

Occupy Toledo Facebook page --> Casino Grand Opening Protest event --> CasinoWatch.org --> Feb 2008 report Casinos’ impact on a new community (pdf file)

Old Toledo Talk comment that excerpts a 2009 Toledo Free Press story about the Lawrenceburg, Indiana casino, which is owned by the same people who own Toledo's casino. From the TFP story:

My April 2010 comment :

But since the Toledo area is much larger than Lawrenceburg, the same dynamics may not apply here.

The positioning of the casino is isolated. Getting back on the expressway means going home and not looking for something else to do once they are done.

The only "boon" to the area will be a reduction in local money that cuurently travels to Detroit and/or Windsor for gambling. The new local casino will not draw an especially large number of out-of-state visitors, as the nearest state where gambling is illegal is Kentucky; I assume most Kentuckians will simply go to Cincinnati casinos.

There are a few gamblers who like to travel and visit casinos in different cities, but most gamblers either hit the nearest casino or head to a legitimate gambling/vacation destination such as Las Vegas. Anyone who expects the Toledo casino to draw in tons of out-of-state visitors is dreaming, unless by "out-of-state" you mean Monroe and Lenawee counties in Michigan.

As stated above, you will have no idea whether the casino causes the businesses to close or not. Just speculation.

the only thing you can do, which is what you asked, if to frequent the local businesses and spend your money there, and tell your friends, family, and neighbors to do the same.

I think it's also funny that Rossford expects an increase in Business revenue from the Casino. As a Rossford resident what the heck is here that would draw casino patrons? We have bars and gas stations and that is about it, unless you wanna get a crappy over/under-cooked pizza from Marcos.

I started off pro casino, and after research became anti-casino. there are many articles that are backed by well rounded numbers and research out there to support the anti-casino movement.

http://nocasinoerie.org/jobques.htm
http://www.casinowatch.org/studies_research/New%20Casinos%20Impact.pdf

They are black holes for disposable money that would otherwise yield better results in other businesses.

My dog in this fight is NOT to bash the casino. It is here, and we now have to live with it. My dog in this fight is to do what I can to TRY to prevent as many locally owned and operated businesses from closing their doors from lack of business.

I understand that it is in fact "speculation", as to why a business closed, however I still think it is worthy of tracking. For example, restaurants in Downtown, just because 1 or 2 close per year (normal) but if all of a sudden we loose 40% then we must wonder, and what can be done to improve their survival. It may be a lost cause, but I for one would like to find a solution.

Its complicated, and I know this, but hey, I have the time to focus on it. I just need a little help noticing whats going on. You folks are good eyes and ears, and I for one am interested.

That and it will give that Easy Street thread a break :-)

"They are black holes for disposable money that would otherwise yield better results in other businesses."

Hear. Hear, Kimono.

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"lots and lots of local people are employed by the casino. That's not something that should be looked at as a negative."

your wrong, the net effect is solidly in the negative. The wages of workers pale in comparison to the money leaving town. A city can't improve it's economy by having it's citizens play blackjack against one another and then mailing the winnings out of state.

Unless Ohio did it different, I know in some states you cannot gamble at a casino you work at.

ifrost: You are correct!

If it were downtown, it'd probably be a positive. Wayyyyyyy out in the middle of nowhere, a negative.

I agree with dell_diva that it will be a year or so until the obvious economic damage starts being noticed. Just think of circling water in a toilet bowl as it's flushed. This (the Toledo area economy) is just a massive bowl, so it won't be quickly noticed.

Most businesses won't close, but many will. However, many businesses such as Toledo area bars, bowling alleys, convenience stores, restaurants, etc, will have lower gross sales. Keep in mind that many of these places have had increased sales for more than a year from the construction payroll. That has ended, so for many of them it's back to unemployment, but of course that isn't discussed, since it isn't positive spin.

Also, local churches, veterans organizations, elks, KoC, and various charities, that have had gambling (bingo, poker, raffles) events imo will see significant reductions. Hopefully they are prepared, but I doubt they are very proactive, since many of them probably falsely believe the casino is going to produce some mystical economic boom for the Toledo area.

Glassmen, a youth charity is one example. They had a monthly monte carlo on East Broadway for decades. I believe the last event was a few weeks ago.

Small bars, bowling alleys, convenience stores, restaurants, etc, have employees with quite a bit of off-the-books income. So, reduced incomes and/or increased layoffs for those people will never appear in the city's labor statistics.

People that actually believe The Docks & downtown businesses are going to see any extended uptick from the casino are being delusional.

I expect a possible initial uptick, as the employees' initial wages are circulated and there will be a euphoric buzz surrounding the casino's grand opening...casino's are expert marketers.

Maybe during the summer months some of the out-of-town casino patrons will wander downtown to a Hens or Walleye game. However, there will be some people who used to go to games, opting out and instead visiting the casino.

MOST people lose their money at the casino. Thus, it isn't as if people are going to walk out of the casino, after losing their shirt, and say to themselves, "gee, let's drive to the downtown Toledo ghetto to blow the last of my paycheck drinking and eating." They will be able to drink and eat all they want, @ THE CASINO TOO!

Long-term, I have little or no doubts, that the casino will be an economic death knell for many expecting the opposite.

lfrost, I would expect the few bars in Rossford will be where many casino employees stop after work to talk shop and have a few drinks. Also, I'm sure Rossford will enjoy increased traffic citations revenue.

Is there a bar in the casino? Why would they leave the casino to go to a bar around the corner?

As coming from someone who worked at a bar through a lot of my youth, it's not fun to drink where you work.

The local tax money generated by the casino is going to keep Toledo governmant afloat

^ Hoops, how naive. The one things I have learned about this city is that it's wasteful and narrow minded. No, the city will gobble the income up and scream for more after spending it on stupid pet projects.

Lets hope out of towners don't book to stay at that lovely days inn on Miami Street.
LOL

Curious - can anyone who visits the casino report back as to the prices of beer and mixed drinks?

Ohio....no doubt, the fat cats will waste alot of the money.I just think Toledo was headed for big trouble financially without this casino. Look at the panic when it did not open in March as originally intended. They were already saying how much revenue they lost.
I do not see any business in the direct vicinity gaining business because there are none. It will have to be the rossford/795 area or downtown. Maybe 10 years down the road some investors may buy some land and create some viable businesses next door.

6th_Floor,

Not sure why anyone would come through Rossford when there is a Entrance/Exit right down the street to both North and South I-75, unless someone gets lost.

I believe the Wood County Sheriff's Office is currently running a prostitution sting around Rossford in order to send a message about that sort of thing.

I saw the article and the list of people, JohnnyMac. Sad.

I just think Toledo was headed for big trouble financially without this casino. Look at the panic when it did not open in March as originally intended. They were already saying how much revenue they lost.

Which should be a shining example of how small time our officials think. Who gives a crap about losing 1-2 months of "revenue" when you are (theoretically) looking at years and years and years and years of additional revenue?

Most businesses don't count money until it is actually in hand or services are rendered. To do so on a government level and wring hands about "lost" money is asinine. What, we've been "losing revenue" since 1837 (the city's founding) because we didn't have a casino? Asinine.

In addition, the fact that they're bitching/salivating over "revenue" tells you exactly what their priorities are: "how much additional tax money is there for us to spend?" Not necessarily more jobs. Not continuing to create a fantastic environment to do business. Not what is good for Toledo (however you wish to define it). Just "how much more money?" (you know, for all those pet projects that can have a name attached to them).

Small time. Really small time.

I thought I read something several months ago that council (?) wanted the casino to open a temporary casino to make up for the delay in opening. The marketing department must have told them to pound sand.

Yeah, I also thought it was ridiculous when they were complaining about revenue shortfalls because the casino's opening had been pushed back.
1) as oht said, who counts their money before it's actually delivered?
2) anyone who has any building experience WHATSOEVER knows that you should always factor in delays. Always, always, always.

Then again, I guess we shouldn't be surprised: ODOT said their schedule had been delayed by a year because of heavy rains last April. How does a slow month equate to a year's worth of catch up? And even school children know that it rains in April. There's a freaking nursery rhyme it honor of it.

Hotels and restaurants, Its short trip when you hit the freeway to the hotels just south of there. Not sure what you can get as far as food over that way I don't go out there much, even then aren't they putting some sort of dining into the casino?

All reports from my friends who attended the VIP fundraiser yesterday say that the place is fantastic on all levels. Great food, drink, atmosphere, and customer service was top notch. More Vegas-like than Detroit casinos.

LC, I think there are 3 restaurants in the casino. I'm fuzzy on the number, but I do know there will be a steakhouse that they claim will be the best Toledo has ever seen. (Not saying there's truth to that, since it's really not much more than a sales pitch, but they're certainly talking a big game)

I recall seeing the signs. A steakhouse, a buffet-style eatery, and a 200 seat sports bar. That really isn't good news for many Toledo restaurants.

I think the only local businesses that have anything to fear about the casino being here are carry-outs who rely on scratch off ticket sales and places that serve a great steak. To think that a place that serves $5 beers, $8 mixed drinks, and $15 burgers is going to kill small businesses is ridiculous.

Eh, I don't think it'll really impact things too much. Speaking only for myself, I'd only ever eat there if I were already in there, or it was the absolute best place I've ever eaten in Toledo. Otherwise, I'm not going to deal with driving over there, parking in the garage that I'm assuming won't be free, and dealing with the crowd of a casino.

Nope when they first talked about building it I had heard it was going to be games only no bars, no restaurants, and I though to myself across from the docks would be the perfect place to put it. Gamble get hungry or want to take a break grab a bite and some beers, go across the street to the docks. People could come up on their boats, dock and go to the casino, even have a security guard watching the dock. Just across from downtown, maybe leave from casino to catch a game of baseball or hockey. I think that some of those old buildings across from the marina would increase in value, maybe some business could move into some of them, or even on the east side near there. If you had a casino with no bars, restaurants, maybe food catered in from a local company instead of inside the casino. Even better should of built it on the old Toledo Edison plant they are now tearing down. As far as that goes how about lake cruises with gambling could stop in at the casino on the river. I still think the waterfront is totally under utilized in this city, Smaller river cruise boats are starting to take off elsewhere. Would like to see a 4-5 day / night cruise could hit Windsor, Detroit, Toledo, Cleveland waterfronts and can go to the casinos with shuttles. Could even open up a whole Great Lakes cruises, travel around to Superior, Michigan, Ohio, New York, Canadian cities.

http://www.toledoblade.com/local/2012/05/25/Toledo-councilman-proposes-fees-for-Internet-cafes.html

It looks like the casino doesn't anyone else having action on what they have claimed as theirs.

I recall reading somewhere that the Casino will get all it's food and stuff from Local companies, so that is a plus.

Molsonator, I don't know the prices on beer but the mixed drinks there yesterday were about 6 bucks pre-tip. But that doesn't mean that was a promotional price either.

It has 3 restaurants and a smaller 24/7 snack place. The buffet food looked pretty good, but they didn't have any prices up, same with the sports bar. The steak house looks very nice, and they are going for high end. My understanding from an employee there is they wanted it to be as good as a Ruth Chris. I took a look at the menu and there petite fillet was $40 with all sides separate. Looked about on par with Rockwells, maybe a bit more expensive. My guess is they have the most to loose from the Casino's restaurants since they are so similar.

For "stay and play" guests a casino-hotel-downtown shuttle business might spring up, if the hotels don't provide it themselves. A downtown parking/bar shuttle might work - given driving I-75 and parking could be a challenge at the location. The casino apparently has 3400 parking spaces, which should be plenty after openning week.

The criminal defense bar may see a rise in some work be it disorderly conduct, DUI, trespass etc. No doubt Penn Central will have solid security, but will also agressively pursue charges to keep the casino reputation as a safe place. If, however, the casino looks to lower economic status patrons as a primary resource, then perhaps a shady element will be allowed to cruise the floor. TPD and Rossford PD no doubt will focus enforcement on that area.

Innovation and imagination will determine if any new business is created or whether existing places survive/thrive. If I had either I would look to reap benefit.

Damn.

CC (formerly TAHL).

I've heard that the newer hotels on Alexis Rd over near the Meijer and Toledo Speedway are going to be having room specials and a shuttle for casino patrons.

Talked with Holiday Inn French Quarter - they will have a shuttle.

That hotel near the speedway is a slime hole, went there once long long time ago and it was bad then, with the death of Northtowne I cant see that it would get any better, they probably charge by the hour.

The brand new Fairfield Inn? Wasn't that just built 2 or 3 years ago?

Or are you talking about the older one that has been there awhile?

You said speedway I thought Raceway track, no those are better hotels, I was thing alexis and detroit.