More Homicides Overnight

We need to open another pool.

Yes! More pools! Midnight basketball! If we had midnight basketball these folks would not be gunning each other down!

More pools! More basketball! More social services!

If we had cameras, everyone would have behaved.
Right?

it's GUNS!!! get rid of all the GUNS!!! And all the KNIVES!!! And CANDLESTICKS - or whatever the Hell Col Mustard could use in the living room!!!

They had guns, I thought that made everyone too scared to commit crime.

Went by the pool on Willys about 5:15 tons of people everywhere and saw about 4 TPD cars there, not sure what was going on I'm sure some sort of altercation....

great thread guys

http://www.toledoblade.com/Police-Fire/2012/06/20/2-dead-5-injured-in-Toledo-after-4-shooting-incidents.html

Great attitude Star, we could use a lot more intelligent posts like yours.

Speaking of that, what's the latest on the magic, "crime stopping" cameras? Haven't heard anything about them lately.

Earlier this morning, police responded to a quadruple shooting at Remy’s Gentlemans Club

Whaaaaa? At a Gentlemans Club?

https://www.facebook.com/omar.braswell

lots of guns and posing

My God, the Blah is relentless:

"Police said one of the men involved was shot at least once in the hip and was taken by an individual to the University of Toledo Medical Center, the former Medical College of Ohio."

Tuesday night, police and rescue crews responded about 9:50 p.m. to 1232 Colburn St. near Hiett Avenue, although rescue crews could not locate a victim and did not transport anyone. Police said one of the men involved was shot at least once in the hip and was taken by an individual to the University of Toledo Medical Center, the former Medical College of Ohio. The gunman fled, although police said they have a lead on the suspect, although they have not released the person’s name. This morning, the house where that shooting occurred caught on fire, causing heavy damage to the structure.

Possibly the most confusing statement of "facts" I've ever read.

Nobody was transported to the hospital...except the guy shot in the hip who was transported to the hospital? What???

And the fire....hmm...yeah...seems totally legit.

I'm sure someone simply forgot to take the apple pie out of the oven. The pie he was going to take to the church bake sale to raise funds for the disadvantaged children's outing to the Zoo. On Sunday, Christmas morning. With his grandma. In memory of the victims of violence. I'm sure those were the circumstances of this spontaneous combustion. Right.

I don't get why these people be axen' a fool? Why can't people just behave? OH That and DRIVE! How the hell do some people in Toledo get a drivers license?!??

If anything Makes Toledo look bad its the 20-25 shots taken at Remy's Gentlemans club and no life threatening injuries! That is just sad. Maybe they did not have enough "Swag" to hit their targets.

http://www.toledonewsnow.com/story/18831751/several-females-involved-in-central-toledo-knife-fight

Don't forget the stabbings, too!

I'm so glad we just bought another gun....

http://www.toledoblade.com/Police-Fire/2012/06/20/Man-reported-shot-in-central-Toledo.html

A bit of target practice after lunch maybe?

I fired a pistol last year for the first time and have subsequently been exercising my Second Amendment rights in a responsible manner. My entire perception of shooting or being shot has changed after hearing the true sound when pulling the trigger and feeling the explosion through your hand when using a weapon.

I try to balance rational fear with prepared awareness lately. I started reading the Detroit Free Press on line years ago for sports coverage. It is a grim, grim paper to read. The level and frequency of violence is appalling. Every day there are stories similar to the one posted below that occurred a few days ago involving absolute out of control youth mayhem and disrespect that is driving good citizens and business owners out of the town. It’s a shame that parts of Toledo are falling to the same level.

http://www.freep.com/article/20120619/NEWS01/120619025/With-surveillance-video-Attackers-beat-Detroit-gas-station-clerk-owner-ready-give-up-leave?odyssey=mod|mostview

One more.

http://www.toledonewsnow.com/story/18839281/person-shot-on-ottawa-dr-in-central-toledo

Can't we all just get along?

So, Imagination Station needs to be open 24/7? I mean if there were more hours to get kids interested in science, then these crimes wouldn't happen. Toledo would be filled with aspiring young scientists working on mini volcanoes or rubbing balloons for static electricity and stuff. Not shooting each other.
FOR GAWD'S SAKE, PASS ANOTHER LEVY FOR THAT PLACE, PLEASE!

While they were acting like fools, "axen'" implies that they were inquiring, not behaving in a certain manner.

Toledo has become "little Chicago".

The destruction of the African-American community has probably reached the point of no return. The vast majority are born out of wedlock, into poverty and into a degenerate culture. The productive Africans move as far away from "the brothers" as they can and quietly assimilate into more stable cultural experiences.

Education will not work, talks from city officials will not work, their illiterate "baby momma" can not do anything.

The hope is to suppress the reproductive rate (i.e. Margaret Sanger's reason for PP) and to allow them to shoot each other into non-existance. Oh..and keep the social workers and progressives as far away from them as possible.

Just wait for the $2 million worth of additional "security" cameras (that, no doubt, will morph into more ticket/revenue producing red light/speed cameras) and the passage of the parks levy.

Then, all will be well. At least that's what the morons on city council y'all keep re-electing would have you believe.

"If anything Makes Toledo look bad its the 20-25 shots taken at Remy's Gentlemans club and no life threatening injuries! That is just sad. Maybe they did not have enough "Swag" to hit their targets"

This is what happens when you hold the gun sideways "gangsta style". Just think if they would actually aim!

Maybe they should just set asside a section of town for the gangs to war over, unlimited free for all and no cops around just hearsts in the morning to pick up the corpses. Would be like lazer tag in the 80's. Actually be more like a giant roach motel, they check in but they don't check out.

Oldhometown has probably noticed the creeping frequency of gang graffiti throughout south Toledo as these gangs claim their "turf." The trash cans in front of Doc Watson's (not to mention the dumpsters and electrical boxes in the back) have all been "tagged."

The side of the old "Stop and Go" on Reynolds across from Southwyck has a huge Blood "tag" on it...

Certain members of this board will tell you that the rising crime is a fallacy imposed by the evil GOP to make you cower to fear.

Must be nice to live in an ivory tower neighborhood.

Nearly any city could use more law enforcement personal. What Toledo really needs is better citizens. Too many of the current people have no regard for human life, even their own.

I should add...if these gangbangers want to take each other out, it's hard to muster up much sympathy.

The problem comes when they take out an innocent bystander with them. Or recruit new members to replace the deceased, thus perpetuating the cycle.

(How do you keep the younger generation from joining gangs? Eventually the current gang members will kill each other off...perhaps the key is to keep them from finding replacement members.)

Unless you live in the direct area of these gang shootings and low lifes with no hopes, dreams, or ambitions people generally don't care enought to act and apathy is the rule of thumb.

I live in Sylvania Township, so the violence in Toledo doesn't affect me. That said, if some sort of feasible plan to eradicate most or all gang violence were developed and proven, I believe money and labor could be found to put the plan into action.

mom2 - If you grow up in gang territory, it's almost impossible to not end up affiliated with them. Besides the overt pressure and threats of force against an individual/family, there are environmental factors as well.

Let's say your parents are deadbeats who don't care about your education or what you do. The local gang has a lot to offer (comparatively) for those kids: street smarts, a "family" structure, a source of tax free income, women, and drugs. They will never all kill each other off. They know exactly how to keep their ranks full.

Unfortunately, at this point, hiring more cops to noticeably reduce crime in certain neighborhoods, is akin to hiring more ambulance drivers to cure cancer.

I liked Robert Heinlein's opinion on the subject, there is a part in Starship Troopers where he described problems with gang kids, he just suggested more harsh punishment when the kids are children to correct their behavior. I would scan and paste it in here but it might be illegal and its kinda long for a post. He goes on to mention how psychologists thinking they were doing right about worrying about a child's mental health had by stopping the simple idea a whipping a child for punishment had stopped the best method for learning right from wrong that was instilled in man by nature.
Anyway I have reread it a couple times and it seems to make sense to me.

I'm thinking we just need to bring back legal dueling. Have a problem with someone, challenge them to a duel. But make it more modern, and sell ESPN the broadcasting rights so we can dump the money back into the community. I'm thinking something along the lines of Thunderdome.

Two men enter One man leaves!

(sarcasm alert)
You guys are looking at this all wrong. If anything, let's get more ammo supply stores opened in Toledo and boost the economy.
Why hasn't the media covered the real problem? The casino! It was after this place recently opened that shootings and murders went up. I bet none of these people have the "gamblers anonymous" number to call and get help.
Apparently, these latest shooters didn't attend the "scolding" from the mayor and police chief. I'll bet once their gang buddies tell them about what the chief and mayor said at that meeting, they'll be burdened with shame and turn themselves in.

I think there is a good business opportunity here. Discounted marksmanship classes marketed towards the gangs.

listening to the scanner i just heard a shooting in Sylvania twp, welcome to the jungle

Certain members of this board will tell you that the rising crime is a fallacy imposed by the evil GOP to make you cower to fear.

Must be nice to live in an ivory tower neighborhood.

The fallacy is actually that crime is rising at all. In fact, the FBI says the national crime rate is at its lowest rate since WWII. The difference between 1952 and 2012? They didn't have the internet and cable tv telling them about every crime that happened anywhere in the country. Plus, I think it is somehow human nature to think that things are always going downhill.

NB: I am not saying that the crime rate in Toledo is rising or dropping, just that it is sinking nationally. I'd be interested to see that data if it is available.

"listening to the scanner i just heard a shooting in Sylvania twp, welcome to the jungle"

http://www.toledoblade.com/Police-Fire/2012/06/21/Person-shot-in-Sylvania-Township.html

Good point Ace_Face. About a month ago after continuing feelings of unease and trying to take a rational approach to all the negative news I came much to the same conclusion. That does not infer that there is an acceptable number of homicides we should all feel comfortable with each year but if you are not in a gang and you are not involved in any way with the illegal drug trade as a user or provider you are probably living during one of the safest periods in human history from a life expectancy and quality of life stand point.

I'm rereading Unholy Toledo, today's gangs have nothing on the old time gangsters. Maybe I'll start a new thread on it next week.

Eh...it was the neighborhood over by WalMart. I always forget that's technically Sylvania Twp.

^^

Meaning that residents of that neighborhood have Toledo mailing addresses, so I forget it is still Sylvania Twp.

(Felt I had to clarify, because I know there are some who would try to read into the comment I made.)

I'm sorry I don't think it acceptable to create urban "plantations" for crime. Crime in those neighborhoods is not going down and every year those plantations slowly expand. The "oh it's just the (insert race of choice) side of town, nothing to worry about" is not acceptable. Their are children and hard working families in those neighborhoods that deserve better.

If you think it's fine to keep happy white america suburbia safe and offer up the poor to the gods of "safety", that's good for you. But working in and around some of the roughest neighborhoods in the Detroit area there are people there begging for relief from the violence. People who get tired of holding their children at night because they wake up crying in fear of the gunshots. And they deserve better than to be forgotten about on the crime plantation.

Sorry I didn't grow up in White McHappy-ville where crime has never been a problem and I don't find it acceptable that we sweep it under the rug in the side of town you don't live in.

But doesn't the change have to come from within the affected neighborhoods?

There's only so much that the people in "McHappy-ville" can really do to help.

Sure. For starters, we can demand our elected and law enforcement officials (as well as the prosecutors and courts) do more than simply repeating "This violence has got to stop."

THIS!

A lack of willingness for the police to patrol neighborhoods where crime is rampant may be due to the constant braying of "police brutality" and general disrespect, loathing, and hatred police receive when trying to do their jobs in these areas.

Police aren't perfect or even good many times--not by a long shot. However, I can understand a sense of "eh, why bother. F@#k 'em" when it comes to this stuff. Somebody's kid dead in the street...nobody talks. "Nobody saw nuthin'". You know damn well where the gang houses are (hell, even the newspaper does); nobody cares. Business as usual. But in the meantime, you--in the blue uniform--are hated and a target. Why put yourself in more danger by being "supercop".

Philisophically, yes it's wrong. Police are sworn to protect. All I'm saying is, as a human with a tough job and needing some self preservation (physical and mental) might lead you to a mindset of "it's not worth it...let's just pick up the bodies in the morning".

Here is another sad aspect. There is a new program at UT that was put together by Kay Patton Wallace And a few others that was designed to attract AND retain African American students. Brainiacs interviewed for this program do not want to attend UT for FREE as "it doesn't sound fun". The Braniac gets to go to school for free ( one kid actually had a GPA of 1.0 ) and UT gets like 10k for putting his butt in a seat. Brainiac blows a semester of sitting in class texting....that is if they even come to class and YOUR TAX DOLLARS ARE DOWN THE TOILET. Tatts and bangin are more fun! And Jacobs deserves a 100k signing bonus???

A man was shot and killed late Thursday night in Sylvania Township, authorities said.

Darryl Stipes, 60, was found with multiple gunshot wounds on his front porch at 3322 Waldmar Road at 10:24 p.m., Sylvania Township Police Chief Robert Boehme said.

He was taken to Toledo Hospital, arriving at 10:43 p.m., where he was later pronounced dead.

Police said they are investigating leads on a suspect and motives. They do not believe this was a random act, Chief Boehme said.

Waldmar is north of Central Avenue and west of Holland-Sylvania Road.

This is the first homicide in Sylvania Township this year.

Article

Oldhometown...don't know if you saw this yet, but it relates to your last comment:

Victims of shootings not helping, police say

Toledo police said Thursday no arrests had been made in any of the nine shootings that shook the city Tuesday and Wednesday. Authorities said victims have not been cooperating.

Toledo police Chief Derrick Diggs said the community needs to report any information to investigators.

Seven of the shooting victims sustained nonlife-threatening injuries; two, Antwoine Huggins, 24, and Omar Sutton, 19, died.

Anyone with information on the shootings is asked to call Crime Stoppers at 419-255-1111.

They don't say anything because they know the police will do nothing but haul one or two "yuthes" off to jail (for 6 months) while their "brothers" shot out their windows. Can you blame them? Our prisons are overcrowded with non-violent offenders due to the war on drugs so we do not have the ability to give hard time to the real criminals because there is a bus load of people who had 40 dollars worth of pot headed to the pen for lockup and they need available beds so real criminals get early release.

We can get millions for grants to park a bazzilion cops along 75 at Ottawa River whenever we need funding for the police man's ball but can't get the same number of cops to camp out in high crime areas. I HATE taxes but I would pay whatever it cost of provide adequate police present till the message got sent that good people can take no more. People should not have to live in fear, we are better than this. We can put a man on the moon but can't save the ones in our inner-cities.

They don't say anything because they know the police will do nothing but haul one or two "yuthes" off to jail (for 6 months) while their "brothers" shot out their windows.

But even if the "yuthes" went to jail for 6 years, not 6 months, they brothers would still be able to shoot out the windows of the snitch, wouldn't they?

Sure, increasing police patrols could help, but it could help more with some buy-in from the residents of the neighborhoods.

• "their" brothers, not "they" brothers

"but it could help more with some buy-in from the residents of the neighborhoods." - You say that like a Syvania-ite watching on random meth head breaking into your neighbor's house to do some thievery because they have nice stuff. So be honest with me as a mother are you going to be a "snitch" when people are lined up out in front of your home 24/7 staring you in the face as your kids leave for school, they know when you husband goes to work, for all intent and purposes own the street you live on and no matter how many times you call the cops they can't make them go away? Please tell me if the lives of your children are worth "justice" that will never come. The whole "neighborhood empowerment" coming from the suburbs is bullshit in the purest form. World of difference in you reporting a break-in then someone stuck in hell reporting gang activity.

So by your logic the police are worthless for these people and they should form armed mobs and just go about putting bullet holes in gang members. Batman is a comic book not a reality, it shouldn't have to come down to vigilante justice.

I'll get back to you on that when you're ready to have a rational conversation, dbw.

Hint: If you think that saying that the police need cooperation from the residents of a neighborhood = saying that the only thing that will work is residents forming vigilante mobs, then you're not trying to have a rational conversation.

I will Germany credit for their Police system, they don't mess around, there is no such thing as Police brutality in Germany. People don't mess around when the cops show up, they behave. If you ever make it to any of their airports they patrol the airports with sub machine guns.

Oh and before you cry police state, think if your answer to the traffic cams was if your obeying the law you have nothing to worry about, same thing.

You still didn't answer my question of what would you do if in their shoes with the gang camped out in front of your house 24/7. Please tell me if you would trade the life of your family for "justice" that the cops can't even enforce.

Wait let me guess they could hold a march and tell those evil gangbangers "NO MORE WE REFUSE TO GIVE IN", maybe the Blade will even come and take pictures. But when the cameras and cops go home for the night what do you think is going to happen? This is not some Hallmark after school special where the bully is shamed and learns the error of his ways and they all shake a Coke and a smile. The bully has 10's if not hundreds of thousands of dollars at stake through the drug trade. You think the bully gives two shits about being snitched on? Omar Braswell had Facebook pictures with guns and blunts because they know the cops can't do a damn thing about it.

Your applying suburban logic to urban problems. And the attitude of "well those people should rise up and do something" is absolute bullshit. The people have been abandoned by the system. Mayors no longer try to solve the problem they just do their best to keep the plantation from growing and write off the lives lost as "progress". The only people that care are those stuck in the warzone and those in the neighborhoods that are seeing the front move their way. Everyone will sit on their back patio, sipping margaritas and spout some statistics about overall national crime rate.

I wrestle with much of what you say DBW and often waiver. These points are not directed toward your comments but rather conflicts of responsibility I myself carry. I lend my skills to that of small actions helping an individual, others work in larger circles in attempting to corral institutions or groups together to solve problems – ultimately it takes the skill set of both types of individuals.

I understand the system breaking down. Though not a TV person the show the Wire was helpful for me in understanding the effect of institutions on people. That said, I am also a pretty firm believer that I am NOT my brother’s keeper nor should I require a keeper for myself – that is a form of dependent slavery. I have been given no proxy to care for or be responsible for other men. I believe that there are ways of life that when lived have consequences and those penalties are manifestations that can direct the sick to the deep root of the problem and not the surface BS that is panned in the news. Keep having babies without fathers… here is what your streets will become. Allow your children to disrespect their elders…. Here is what your homes will become. Ignore your children and leave them unattended….. here is what your homes will become. Do not take advantage of educating yourselves and prefer lives of laziness over effort… here is what your streets will become.

Now… when a person comes to me who is afflicted and ready to change and says “I want out” I am happy to show him the way and even invest time in doing so but until that person or group recognizes the manifestations as a result of the actions and not as a result of victimization than the long term solution can’t appear. The reverse of the manifestations above is – Educate yourselves and invest your energies in learning skills… here is what your lives will become. Raise your children with both parents active in the children’s lives…. Here is what your lives will become. Teach your children respect, attend to them and … here is what your streets will become. Sylvania is not perfect but I’ll bet dollars to dimes that percentage wise there is more positive effort and upbringing going on than not.

Another conflict comes from the responsibility of the person whose life has been rewarded because of good living. Should they commit suicide and abandon the fruits of their effort to attempt to “save” those who are not living positive lives? I often say not – enjoy the fruits of your labor. Attempting to insert yourself into that position of assistance before the person or group recognizes the true nature of why their streets are going to hell only causes further division. They need to solve the problem on their own – and it does not take million dollar grants or extra police in the field. The entire inner city community could form volunteer committees to solve their own problems walking the streets and talking to neighbors. They choose not to… and their streets and lives become….. I do have empathy toward those who are stuck in the crossfire though – ultimately they are the ones who will need to fight and in the war.

Change isn't easy. If it was, the world would be crime free and singing in harmony.
If you find yourself in a challenging situation, you have to make a choice. Do something, or nothing.
Do you stand up and make a change or do you sit by and watch it continue.
There is no risk in sitting by and doing nothing. Especially when it comes to fighting for your right to a safe and quiet neighborhood. The risk is if you stand against what is wrong. Is it easy? No. Is it safe? No. Will you be alone? Maybe. Is it worth it? Only you can answer that.
To me it is almost like freedom. Freedom from violence. Freedom from being threatened. Freedom to be safe.
Everyone has to make their own mind up. The time for hiding inside your house and hoping things will change for the better are long gone. Get involved or get out. Only you have to look at yourself in the mirror.