WTOL News

I find it amazing that the lame stream media has nearly completely ignored this scandal. Well, I don't really - it's their MO.

What IS amazing (and sad) is that so few people even know what it is.

That darn liberal media bias, it's a conspiracy I tell you. Oh wait...

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2012/06/20/155423854/white-house-exerts-executive-privilege-over-fast-and-furious-documents

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/20/obama-executive-privilege-fast-and-furious_n_1611962.html

You can't expect a single news source to keep you adequately informed, especially one that just merged to cut operating costs.

http://www.toledonewsnow.com/story/18827593/ag-and-issa-to-meet-on-operation-fast-and-furious

Actually, I am wondering only if WTOL has a directive from Raycom as to what national news they cover. I am not questioning NPR's coverage and I could care less about the huffington post's coverage.

CBS? NBC? ABC? MSNBC? CNN?

I'd hardly consider huffpo main stream.

Fast and Furious is currently on MSNBC, CNSNews and CNN - front and center. I can't believe how many people say the "main stream" media doesn't cover something, but don't read any newspapers, watch news on TV or read news web sites...

SensorG - It is unavoidable for them to "NOT" report on it now. They have avoided it for the last ten days or so. Anyways, we are all smart enough to know that news services are bias.

Fast and Furious is currently on MSNBC, CNSNews and CNN - front and center.

I think the issue is the fact this "scandal" has been fermenting for well over a year (maybe two?) with very little play in the press and a stonewalling Attorney General. An Attorney General that is about to be held in contempt of Congress.

The President this morning has claimed executive privilege over many documents, which just made things a whole lot more "newsworthy".

“The assertion of executive privilege raises monumental questions," Iowa Sen. Chuck Grassley said in a statement released Wednesday shortly after the president's move. "How can the President assert executive privilege if there was no White House involvement? How can the President exert executive privilege over documents he's supposedly never seen?

Hoo boy....

FWIW, by "play in the press", I mean the concept that the story has "legs"...it's something that newspapers or TV news continually covers because they feel it has the most potential to draw readers/viewers. Not that the outlets have not published stories about F&F...it just hasn't been a story that's front-and-center.

You know, like the Suitcase Six puppies or the Senaca County Courthouse demolition...

There are alot of reasons a President can invoke executive privilege.

Bush invoked the privilege repeatedly: to block a Congressional committee’s subpoenas for documents relating to the Environmental Protection Agency’s decision to reject California’s efforts to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, in the US attorneys scandal that brought down Alberto Gonzales, to prevent Josh Bolten from turning over documents, and to protect Harriet Miers and Sara Taylor and Karl Rove and Scott Jennings from testimony.

There are alot of reasons a President can invoke executive privilege.

Nobody is arguing that. And I'm not turning this thread into "look at all the times in the past blah blah blah..."

The point is that a move by the President to invoke executive privilege is going to push the F&F story (or any issue) front-and-center--more so than it has been.

Whats in there that they don't want us to see?

As per Holders letter to the President: What is in there is the "deliberative process" on how to respond to congressional and media inquiries. In other words, the method by which the public will be dealt a healthy serving of BS and the facts may be avoided.

Seeing as how Bush's use of executive privilege has been brought up, I'm curious what thoughts, if any, then Senator Obama had on the subject.

Sounds like this may be another one of Obama's "evolving" positions...

Bush using signing statements & privilege = EVIL TEAOP REPUKES WHO HATE AMERICA AND LOVE THE RICH.

Obama using signing statements & privilege = Democrats working hard for middle class and poor Americans. (Even though Democratic Senate just voted down food stamps funding because there was not enough handouts to ConAgra on the bill).

I'm really surprised Nixon (err I mean Obama) in an election year has not offered up Holder to the wolves, only logical reason is that this has Barry's paw prints all over it.

So you are saying the BO has the ethics of Bush?

DBW, I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of the right. FYI - Fast and Furious was part of the gun walking operation that started under Bush…

Till Obama makes up a bunch of crap a Syria and invades them with 100k troops then Obama still have the moral high ground.

All the while ignoring the hypocrisy of the left.

FYI - Another retraction: Holder withdraws claim that Bush's attorney general knew about gunwalking

OUCH! SensorG....May Day! May Day! Going Down!

"I think the issue is the fact this "scandal" has been fermenting for well over a year (maybe two?) with very little play in the press and a stonewalling Attorney General. An Attorney General that is about to be held in contempt of Congress."

Exactly.

It's been an ongoing story for about 18 months. NBC finally saw fit to mention it for the first time very recently:
http://times247.com/articles/nbc-devotes-30-seconds-to-first-ever-fast-furious-coverage

ATF gunwalking scandal-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal#cite_note-npr1-3

http://news.yahoo.com/ap-exclusive-second-bush-era-gun-smuggling-probe-202043091.html

A second Bush administration gun-trafficking investigation has surfaced using the same controversial tactic for which congressional Republicans have been criticizing the Obama administration.

Emails obtained by The Associated Press show how in a 2007 investigation in Phoenix, agents of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives — depending on Mexican authorities to follow up — let guns "walk" across the border in an effort to identify higher-ups in gun networks. Justice Department policy has long required that illicit arms shipments be intercepted whenever possible.

So.....the current Attorney General and the President are pulling out all the stops and endangering their political livelihoods to protect us from knowing all about a program that started under George W. Bush....whom they despise and have blamed everything upon for the past 4-5-12 years? But miraculously, after having fully reviewed a similar program in 2009, they've kept their mouths shut on this one program while blaming everything else on their predecessor. Amazing self control <sarcasm>. Well, that's ended...it's Bush's fault again.

The current Attorney General and the President have known about this program for years and, instead of eliminating it as another horribly misguided George W. Bush program, expanded it.

I think it's important to look at the scope of the activity....from your own link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal#cite_note-npr1-3:

Operation Wide Reciever (2006 - 2007): With assurance from ATF "that Mexican officials would be conducting surveillance or interdictions when guns got to the other side of the border", Detty would sell a total of about 450 guns during the operation.

And the Attorney General and President were so shocked...shocked...and morally offended by this illegal activity that they came up with a new expanded version!

Operation Fast & Furious (2009 - 2011): Altogether, 2,020 firearms were bought by straw purchasers during Fast and Furious.

Go after the tactic in Congress, but don't pretend there's some sort of more high ground here for Obama. The President and his Attorney General had their opportunity to spotlight and end something bad happening under George Bush...but decided to turn it into something really bad for whatever reason. Kept the program going. "Gunwalking" went from 450 guns to over 2,000 in F&F.

Now you turn around and say "but but but George Bush did it too!" Christ, is that line ever going to get old with you guys? Conceded: Bush's ATF did do gunwalking. There--your point is noted. Now what? Why didn't Obama and Holder after fully reviewing "Wide Receiver" put a stop to it? Can't blame Congress (they didn't authorize it). Can't blame the Supreme Court (no Court decision paves the way for this). Can't blame those "rednecks" in Arizona who absolutely did not want this going on in their state.

So what's the reason??? Oh wait...I know: George W. Bush, so dumb he can't speak, can't add, can't do anything right, is also responsible for everything that has been directly under the Obama Administration's direct control for at least 3 1/2 years. Got it. Damn, that guy should write a book and displace Machiavelli in history as a man who knows how to work the political machinery from a ranch in Texas after being out of office for years.

"...we are all smart enough to know that news services are bias."

That's why I read/watch news from a variety of sources to get a better understanding of what's going on. The national media in particular has become too biased. I am an independent, so I really don't have a dog in this race. I don't think there is a candidate who is brave enough to make the changes we need to make at a fundamental level to benefit our country. Once the government outlaws the damn lobbyists, and we get real campaign finance reform, we'll be headed in the right direction.

"Once the government outlaws the damn lobbyists, and we get real campaign finance reform, we'll be headed in the right direction." Agree with this 100%.

I am always surprised by the number of people who just don't know or care what is going on in our country and the world.

Well you TeaTards damn well would cry foul if Obama DIDN'T allow the gun purchases - you'd claim he was out to destroy the gun manufacturers and take away your guns.

Sure because gun owners support the President breaking numerous laws to run a false flag operation. Keep throwing cover for our man child President who thinks he is a king and the laws do not apply to him. I don't understand how Progressives can justify him ignoring the Constitution with the logic of "well Bush did it too", there is a reason he was one of the worst Presidents we ever had. So you wish Obama to carry the same mantle?

The differences between Operation Gunwalker (still an unconstitutional operation) is that the Bush DOJ was at the very least arresting people. NOBODY was arrested through Fast & Furious.

Wonder how people would feel if Wikileaks had gotten and posted these documents?

I wonder if executive privilege is the transparency the people were promised?

As far as I know if the president wasn't involved in any way with this then there was no grounds for executive privilege to be given.

So you don't understand what "executive privilege" is. This sort of idiotic comment is one of the (many) reasons why I hound your pathetic self on this board. I'm sick of fraking morons like you who bitch and moan about the system yet want to vote in the even bigger lying, deceitful sacks of fecal matter who make a big dog and pony show of how much better they are than the other guy.

Please, show us more of your ignorance of politics. Don't bother to read up on the history of executive privilege. Just keep spewing your waste here while praising the TeaOP, and we'll let everyone decide if they want to vote for the politicians who are trusted by dumbasses like yourself, or if they want someone that smart people kind of like.

Let's see now:

Bush:
* 9/11 happened on his watch
* Got us tied up in Afghanistan
* Lied and got us involved in Iraq
* Blew trillions of dollars on those wars
* Couldn't be bothered to be in the White House when Katrina hit
* Economy collapsed under his watch, or more accurately, failure to watch anything other than the game on the TV at his ranch in Crawford
* Bailouts, which you and the Teabaggers wrongfully attribute to Obama, because Fox News brainwashed you

Obama:

• "Fast and Furious", maybe
• Solyndra, maybe

OTOH, Obama eliminated Osama bin Forgotten-by-Bush, thus enabling thousands of people to get some closure and removing one huge evil terrorist asshole from the planet, and he didn't blow trillions of dollars and thousands of troop lives to do it.

Face it, Obama would have to be caught on film eating babies in order to surpass Bush.

Oh, and as for your "king" remark: you must have completely forgotten about all the signing statements, memos from the DOJ, etc. plus the Republican-leaning Supreme Court that elected Bush plus the fact that he had mostly Republican Congresses, and when he actually faced Democrats in Congress, the Dems were complete and utter pussies who could not find the balls, spines, courage, fortitude, or gumption to face Bush down on anything or make a huge stink over it. Not that the so-called "liberal media" (which consists mostly of conservative businesses owned and/or run by conservative businessmen) would have actually run with the stories.

"Face it, Obama would have to be caught on film eating babies in order to surpass Bush."

And you still would give him a pass AC.

He would deny it and show film of Someone else and say see see.

What does getting rid of himself have anything to do with signing off on hiding the truth of operation gun runner???

I sure wish you would stop trying to use past examples of stupid shit for an excuse as to why its ok for Obama to do what he's doing, I dont agree with what others did either, the expression 2 wrongs dont make a right still holds true. Why is it when ever something questionable is done by YOUR MAN, and he must be you defend his every word and action as if its a personal insult to you, you always try to find someone else who did something to try to justify what they are doing?

A/C I love the fact that you think the current President can shred the Constitution just because the last one did.

So if some guy beat you up for your lunch money yesterday is it "ok" for the next guy to do it to. Shame on people for not being more vocal about Bush, but I think they have learned their lesson, so it's just to bad for Barry that he can not be equally has evil? By you logic he didn't get his turn like George at doing illegal things so we should give him the opportunity because we gave it to the last guy?

You said it better than I did.

BTW per your idol J Stew - attorney General Eric Holder has engaged in a cover-up and that the president's assertion of executive privilege in the case is hypocritical. Stewart went on to mock Democrats who have made the talk show rounds defending the president, announcing that it's time to play America's favorite game, "Differentiate Your Party's Assertion of Executive Privilege From The Previous Administration's."

"The president needs to protect his ability to get advice," Stewart joked. "Even if that advice is something incredibly stupid, like 'Why don't we let Mexican drug runners smuggle guns into Mexico and not track them for no f*cking reason whatsoever?'"

Hey Republitards!

I have some fun words for you to consider.

RONALD "I DO NOT RECALL" REAGAN.

IRAN-CONTRA.

This shit ain't fucking new, folks. Now do me a favor and stop sucking Koch and say "Well shit, A/C just showed us that our great saint of a President and Obama ain't much different except for skin color, and maybe we should shut our pie holes."

And remember that Ronnie's "oh fuck, Alzheimer's" came well after his testimony.

Wow AC has dimentia.

... When the person claiming I have dementia and other mental illnesses cannot spell such things properly, it tends to diminish their argument.

Keep on doing that thing with the chicken, dude.

I love how the entire GOP has nothing better to do for American than hammer away at Obama at the behest of their corporate masters (Koch brothers, Sheldon Adelson, and umpteen other bazillionnaires). And I love how you eat it up by the 55 gallon drum and totally do not question it or any sort of similarities to anything Team GOP has ever done over the years. Apparently the only failing of the GOP was to not throw all the RINOs out (RINO being anyone who dared spend money on the poor, follow the Constitution with respect to free speech, non-establishment of religion, freedom of assembly, or equal protection, or didn't cut spending enough).

Remember, folks: It's not a crime if a Republican does it. But anything a Liberal does, it's criminal and a sin in the eyes of God.

Dude who appointed you the spelling police? You really need to get over yourself. I don't care who they are if they are wrong they are wrong. If it was proven that Reagan approved the weapons to the rebels then he should of went down for it. Since you want to drag up history, care to go over Carter's policies that helped give us the crappy economy of the late 70's? Didn't think so.

Carter has nothing to do with how our government keeps having deals where one hand doesn't know the other hand is selling arms to questionable groups.

And I thought you weren't ever going to acknowledge me directly again anyhow.

Your like a wart on the end of someone's nose, you know its impolite to stare but you just can't ignore it. Your bias and stupidity is like the pimple, I just can't ignore it.

That would be "You're" and "it's" and also warts and pimples are different things.

That would be because your special, you can be both.

No, you're special.

And you sound like a 6 year old.