Toledo Talk

Celtic Irish Tavern

I guess a new pub is going in where the Maumee Chop House was? www.celticirishtavern.com looks like they are from Detroit area? Crappy site. If you click on the lower sub pages it takes you to the pub in Detroit.

created by Molsonator on Jul 11, 2012 at 05:20:59 pm     Business     Comments: 31

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Cannon's Irish Pub in Westland.

posted by Molsonator on Jul 11, 2012 at 05:24:14 pm     #  

Interesting. If it does well and has a decent patronage, maybe we can get Gaelic Storm to come to town again. Love that band.

posted by Foodie on Jul 11, 2012 at 06:11:56 pm     #   3 people liked this

Personally I prefer Jim Edwards Pub in Kinsale, County Cork!

posted by shamrock44 on Jul 11, 2012 at 08:45:58 pm     #  

No, it's the same ownership as Maumee Chop House / Table Forty 4. Just another rebrand. They opened a couple nights ago.

posted by Johio83 on Jul 11, 2012 at 09:54:47 pm     #  

So they own Cannon's too?

posted by Molsonator on Jul 12, 2012 at 07:22:40 am     #  

Not sure what Cannon's is. To my knowledge, Table Forty 4 and Celtic (Formerly Table Forty 4 Maumee, Maumee Chop House before that) are the only two restaurants he owns.

posted by Johio83 on Jul 12, 2012 at 03:22:46 pm     #  

When i was searching the sub-pages on the Celtic web page it linked to Cannon's. If it is like Cannon's it looks more like a bar and less like a family pub.

posted by Molsonator on Jul 12, 2012 at 04:34:40 pm     #  

Whale oil beef hooked!

Should be an interesting place to try out once I suppose

posted by taliesin52 on Jul 12, 2012 at 06:07:21 pm     #  

Stew would be nice, while not Irish I still want to try blood sausage and haggis.

posted by INeedCoffee on Jul 12, 2012 at 10:31:56 pm     #  

Go to the Polish Festival this weekend. You'll find some blood sausage.

posted by Foodie on Jul 13, 2012 at 03:36:20 am     #  

Drove by Thursday. Place is closed. That didn't last long.

Check out their site. Seems they didn't get cash up front to build the site.

http://celticirishtavern.com/

Always, always, always get cash up front from restaurants.

posted by Molsonator on Nov 17, 2012 at 10:16:01 pm     #  

Obviously it was dumb to reopen a location that previously couldn't make it. Table 44 has been struggling most of this year, so these guys probably should find something else to do with whatever money they still have.

posted by 6th_Floor on Nov 17, 2012 at 10:30:07 pm     #  

That area is cursed Indian burial ground. Look at the number of restaurants that have failed over there.

posted by anonymouscoward on Nov 17, 2012 at 10:47:28 pm     #  

yikes, that website is baaaad

posted by upso on Nov 17, 2012 at 11:21:24 pm     #  

The cursed location is a few doors down at the former Bavarian Brewing Company/ Acura Dealer/ XO/ Sidelines/ Mezzmerize/ Ambrosia location (BTW at least one is the name of a strip club, guess which). Chop House/ Table 44/ Celtic Irish tavern suffered from a slow mediocre death. By the time the latest concept rolled around, no one in the area wanted to give it a shot because the guys that ran the 2 previous incarnations were such jerks. I bet if Shawn's moved into that spot, you wouldn't be able to get near the place.

posted by ahmahler on Nov 18, 2012 at 09:53:34 am     #  

I was involved with the Bavarian Brewing Company, and everybody knows the string of failures that happened afterwards at that location. That area is very fickle. Things were good for the Chop House for a while, but 2008 had a pretty big effect on them: they got a large amount of business from the executive lunches and all that, and when those started drying up as companies were clamping down on expenses, times got tough. They tried revamping things by recreating the success of Table Forty 4 in Maumee, but that didn't work. Then they decided to focus more on the later-night bar crowd, but I don't think people really come to Arrowhead Park for that.

posted by Johio83 on Nov 18, 2012 at 05:15:55 pm     #  

wonder how this will affect table 44 downtown?
i've heard they aren't doing very well and having a second mortgage with no income has got to be hurting them.

posted by nits on Nov 18, 2012 at 06:01:26 pm     #  

I think they're pretty separate. I mean, they're obviously the same ownership, but I think they've kept funds pretty independent of each other.

posted by Johio83 on Nov 18, 2012 at 07:07:53 pm     #  

Nits, if you look inside the Table Forty 4 downtown location just about any day, evening, or night, you'll easily know the place hasn't been profitable for a while.

The opening of the Cock n' Bull so far has added to 44's losses. Which debunks the synergy nonsense many here repeatedly have mentioned. But hey, the truth often is shoved aside for a better-sounding tale. They also quit opening most Sundays a while ago...even if a game or event is taking place.

My guess is it remains open (although hours have been greatly reduced) for they know if they officially turn off the lights, their asking price will have to plummet.

posted by 6th_Floor on Nov 18, 2012 at 07:20:22 pm     #  

There looks to be another Irish joint going in next to Subway in the old "Farmer Jacks Plaza". @Shamrock my favourite Irish bar is "The Hibernian" in Cork. Fun fun place and a real neighbourhood pub. My hubs actually got a piano gig there for one night while we were on our Honeymoon! Ireland is a great destination for a vacation!

posted by RockChick on Nov 18, 2012 at 08:47:31 pm     #  

Johio,

Here's a piss-poor mgt story for you regarding Table 44 Downtown.

So, I'm out tonight at C'N'B and I overhear people talking about how 44 actually opened this Sunday because of a couple downtown scheduled events.

However, they had several tables walk out because the service was horrendous. The place didn't have nearly enough staff, so even with only a dozen or so tables the wait was too long. Then, the cake icing on top of already horrible service, they RAN OUT OF FOOD.

They should just sell the business at whatever price and find something else to do.

posted by 6th_Floor on Nov 19, 2012 at 04:02:25 am     #  

Another one bites the dust in Maumee.So much for this happening only in Downtown Toledo.Maybe they should look into building another mega church.It seems like that is the new trend.

posted by buckeye278 on Nov 20, 2012 at 12:25:32 pm     #  

I think it's largely the same problem we've been having here for decades now. The population of the metro area is exactly what it was 40 years ago. (People have just drifted from the city to the burbs) However, new shopping areas and developments keep popping up. If we keep adding new malls and restaurants and shopping centers, etc, something existing has to go in order for the new ones to succeed.

posted by Johio83 on Nov 20, 2012 at 12:47:48 pm     #  

*is almost exactly

posted by Johio83 on Nov 20, 2012 at 12:48:14 pm     #  

Johio, how are you tracking the metro population? The wiki on the City of Toledo (which I assume is not the metro number) shows that our population has dropped to the same level as 1929 or 1933, about 80 years ago, almost 3 generations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toledo,_Ohio#Demographics

posted by GuestZero on Nov 20, 2012 at 02:08:58 pm     #  

If you're counting the metro population - and not just the city of Toledo - please take into account that the Toledo Metropolitan census area used to include Monroe County, Michigan (pop. 152,000) - which moved to the Detroit Metro census area (I forget when, maybe back in 2000). Census.org has a link to a pdf file with the 1970 data, but the file is rather large so I didn't download it.

Although not technically correct, due to their proximity, I would personally include Bedford, Whiteford, Lambertville, Temperance, and Erie as part of Toledo Metro's numbers. I'm guess that would add maybe 50,000 people.

I will give creedence to the theory about people and businesses moving outward. Including Fallen Timbers, there are now 8 or 9 sit-down restaurants west of I-475 in Maumee.

posted by mixman on Nov 20, 2012 at 02:36:59 pm     #  

GZ, I'll try to dig up the article that showed the metro area pop. This one isn't it, but it at least goes back to 1980, and shows how stationary the population has stayed, despite the fact that the city itself keeps shrinking. (This one actually shows that the metro area has grown by 1K people in the past 30 years)
http://www.city-data.com/us-cities/The-Midwest/Toledo-Population-Profile.html

posted by Johio83 on Nov 20, 2012 at 02:47:11 pm     #  

The U.S. Census Bureau defines Metro Toledo by the counties of Lucas, Fulton, Wood, and Ottawa, although I would narrow it down to all of Lucas, eastern Fulton, northern Wood, western Ottawa, and include southern Monroe County, but that would require more work to get those population numbers.

The population of Toledo and Lucas County peaked with the 1970 census.

City1970 pop2010 popChange
Toledo383,818287,208-25.2%

County1970 pop2010 popChange
Lucas484,370441,815-8.8%
Fulton33,07142,698+29.1%
Wood89,722125,488+39.9%
Ottawa37,09941,428+11.7%
Sub Total644,262651,429+1.1%
Monroe118,479152,021+28.3%
Grand Total762,741803,450+5.3%

(Arithmetic not guaranteed to be 100% accurate.)

Obviously, Detroit area residents would have also contributed to Monroe County's population increase.

For the immediate Toledo area, the population has remained about the same over the past 40 years, but clearly, the amount of developed land around Toledo has increased dramatically. I infer that Toledo has a lot of vacant properties.

These images are from a documentary about the Oak Openings Region, and the pictures show quite a change in land use for only a 16-year period. I assume more development around Toledo has occurred since 1997.

posted by jr on Nov 20, 2012 at 03:52:04 pm     #  

Johio83: However, new shopping areas and developments keep popping up. If we keep adding new malls and restaurants and shopping centers, etc, something existing has to go in order for the new ones to succeed.

^

That's what many of us have been saying for a long time.

The people who continuously talk about "the more the merrier" regarding bars, restaurants, and retail are foolish unless they are referring to patrons enjoying low prices.

The owners aren't benefiting from the glut. I focus my discussion about downtown here because it's where I hang out, but the same dynamic applies to every part of Toledo. In fact, based on decades of population data, downtown and the overall Toledo area still have too many bars, restaurants, retail, etc.

So, as Toledo's economy continues circling the bowl, not only will an existing place likely close with every new venture, the poor economy and shrinking population tell us that a further net decrease will continue.

The greatest benefit from these fools opening more bars and restaurants here is we enjoy lower prices.

posted by 6th_Floor on Nov 20, 2012 at 06:35:26 pm     #  

JR: I infer that Toledo has a lot of vacant properties.

It also is because families are much smaller than pre-1980, but those smaller families started living in larger and larger homes as they settled into the suburbs.

posted by 6th_Floor on Nov 20, 2012 at 06:42:44 pm     #  

Thanks, Johio. I consider myself better informed now.

posted by GuestZero on Nov 20, 2012 at 10:19:34 pm     #