Diggers or Walleyes?

Why not bring back the Goaldiggers?

I didn't know the Walleyes had a trouble filling seats...

BTW - are your initials MC?

Hey, if we're going back to 1978, we can bring back WOHO radio, a giant-ass blizzard, and Paul Lynde doing the weather on Channel 13.

Hop in my DeLorean and we'll crank up the flux capacitor...

The Walleye don't have any trouble filling seats: http://www.toledoblade.com/Walleye/2012/03/31/Despite-woes-Walleye-fans-have-packed-house.html

That Paul Lynde clip was amazing.

And, as a Walleye season ticket holder, I can tell you that the tickets may be sold, but the butts aren't always in the seats. Napoli/Vitucci are not putting a competent product on the ice, and the hockey fans in Toledo know it. The "go to the game for a good time" fans may still go, but there is an untapped market out there.

I LOVE that clip with Paul Lynde!!!

You kids, get off my lawn. Now!

A lot has changed since you died 19 years ago, Mr. Garvin. Is there beer in heaven?

Everyone who had the three year contracts are now able to renew or step away. I have indicated I am cancelling and they are relentless trying to get me to stay. I would say they are very busy trying to keep season ticket holders

$.10 beer night? Make it a $3 beer night and it would be just as effective.

I went to more Storm games than I have the Walleye. For a family of four to go it is well over $100 after tickets, a couple drinks for mom and dad, and a couple snacks for the kids. It's just too expensive for a poor minor league hockey team. Drop the ticket prices to $9 or $10 and it would do wonders.

Sadly the Walleye finished second in the league last season in terms of attendance. They are making good money by treating it like a business, not a sports team (they operate as a non-profit btw). They will even tell you that every other Toledo hockey team failed because management wasn't greedy enough to make sure the team was profitable and the current method of putting a shitty team on the ice season after season is the only way to make sure Toledo hockey lasts for a long time. It's pretty disrespectful to this city's long history of hockey if you ask me, not to mention a completely arrogant attitude to have toward fans.

Really what motivation do they have to be more competitive if Toledo fans continue to sell out games to watch the team lose miserably?

It's not just the season ticket holders who are disgusted and walking away, this reporter dropped the team because of all the bullshit too: http://www.examiner.com/article/so-long-and-thanks-for-all-the-fish-2

When the old Sports Arena closed for the ultra-nice Huntington Center, that should have been the first clue that blue-collar, Bob-Probert-style "gritty" hockey was no longer going to be "in vogue". Far too much "violence"...

Ask yourself this--who do you think Joe Napoli (or any the higher-ups) wants to associate with?

a.) loud, beer-swilling, East-Side hockey nuts who passionately loved the Goaldiggers/Storm, came to every game, got tossed out of a few for being obnoxious, dress in old wife beaters, stained sweatshirts and a gigantic parka (not to mention the requisite facial fur), refer to the wife as "my old lady", yell out "Kill that motherf#&ker!!!!" with every check into the boards, etc.

...or...

2.) nice families who take the kiddies to the game, politely applaud after each "inning", can distract the kids with lots of high-brow food treats and (yes) "Dora the Explorer", safely retreat to the comforts of Perrysburg and wonder if they'll see Joe at the Toledo Country Club this weekend whilst sipping mojitos overviewing the river and tell him what a fabulous job he's doing.

I'm not saying either audience is wrong--just way, way different. And that arena was not built for audience number 1...unfortunately.

As for the money aspect, didn't the Storm win a couple championships, then go down the tubes because they no longer chased the good players? Haven't we seen this before?

No matter what audience you "want", the formula (in my view) is quite simple: win games and people will buy tickets (and merchandise). "Glad to have a team" veneers wear off quickly with people plunking down hard-earned money.

I doubt that you can legally sell 10 cent beer any more and remain in compliance with liquor licensing laws.

When I still waited tables at a bar, we got our hand slapped for selling quarter drafts. (Something about promoting overconsumption or what not.) Granted, that was not in Ohio, but I wouldn't be surprised if Ohio's regulations now had something similar.

oldhometown - My feeling is the Huntington Center has no style or flavor of its own. It is not a place you would want to go to despite the talent on the ice. Mud Hens stadium is different.

The Walleye seem to use the same old promos. No original thinking. I love hockey, I just don't like the experience there.

10 cent beer would be the death of me and many of my friends

We went to many of the Goaldiggers games at the Sports Arena and to tell the truth we quit going because of the diehard fans that made the games suck. We went to our first Walleye game this year and had a good time except for the screaming diehard fan directly behind us. Our friends 69 year old wife got drenched by a cup of beer thrown by a diehard fan in the stands way above us that didn't make it to the ice. You need crowds to make this thing work and some of the fans chase them away.

I remember the Toledo Goaldiggers but the name changed to Toledo Storm. Then when the old Sports Arena was razed, we had no hockey team for a year. My spouse and I went to Fort Wayne to see the Comets play. Upon completion of the Huntington Arena, the Toledo Walleye made its debut.

The Walleye are simply using the same formula used for the Mud Hens.....a little bit for the young and single (which amounts to cheap tix and beer)and a lot for families(which amounts to cheap tix, safe/inoffensive crowds, cleanliness, special guest appearances, and food choices). A successful team on the field/ice, while very helpful, is not a neccessity....but an added bonus. No one can argue that it doesn't clearly work for both organizations.

Haven't noted that, and as a old school baseball and hockey fan (that's also a family guy) here's my take...for a hardcore baseball fan, 5/3rd is about ideal for all. Great seating, close to the action. Huntington for hardcore hockey fans? Not so much. The place does lack a bit of character (seems quite...."sterile" imo), and the seats are waaaay too small. The family oriented atmosphere does take away from that old-school rowdiness many of us really liked about going to a live hockey games. But that's just he way it is.

The difference between the Sports Arena era hockey fan base and the Walleye fan base is pretty simple to figure out: The Sports Arena crowd could not sustain a fanbase with a losing team. Got a bad team? Well your left with a dumpy arena, crappy food, and a scary walk back to the car. The Walleye can and do, because their fanbase considers the outcome of the game or product on the ice of primary concern. If the Walleye stink? So what? You got to take the family to a game in a shiny modern arena, kids got a chance to see Barney, and got everyone home safely. If they win? Even better.

*DOES NOT condsider the outcome of the game or product on the ice of primary concern.

All those teams went belly up, too. You can bitch and moan about the current offering, but the bottom line DOES matter. This is a grown up world.

A championship will eventually come to Toledo and all will be well. And I'll let walleyexaminer on the bandwagon.

That's the american way. Can't have a get together without some kind of drug.
Alcohol is the current fav. It's legal, available everywhere and socially acceptable.
Just think of how many events are popular without alcohol. Not many. Anytime you get to go to anything with alcohol being there is a great chance to see idiots who can't control their drinking, get showered with beer, and to have somekind of a negative interaction with those idiots. Really takes the fun out of things.

Bulldog, if you want to celebrate mediocrity, then by all means enjoy that. This isn't about whining about losing or not getting a title every season, this is about an organization making a conscious choice to disregard the actual game in favor of making a profit. Some adults in this grown up world expect the organization that campaigned for tax dollars for the now empty for months arena, the millions for the arena football team that never happened and the hockey team that has alienated local hockey fans to actually TRY to be competitive. Why is it just a common ideal that teams either are competitive or they make money? News flash: Many do both!

Reporters do not jump on or off a bandwagon, they report news and write opinions because that is their job. They likely have a lot more information about what's actually going on with the team than you do.

I'll be honest - I went to about 2 dozen Walleye games last year and couldn't tell you the outcome of any of the games I attended.

I have to agree with BulldogBuckeye here. I was trying to argue the same thing in a thread that was discussing the Mud Hens recent woes a while back - minor league sports are about entertainment, not winning. It's all about having a fun thing to go out and do, and if we should get to see a win in the process, all the better! Minor league teams are not sovereign entities. Their rosters are largely decided by whatever top level team they're affiliated with. All we can do is hope that we get to see some promising prospects spend some time in Toledo, and enjoy watching them before they get called up to the show.

In my book, winning does matter. If I am going to pony up the $$ for tickets and overpriced concessions, the product should be worth it.
I can go to the movies for entertainment.
Vitucci has had trouble recruiting, no doubt. I read the sports page from Fort Wayne and the Komets have signed some very good scorers and will probably do well in a similar market.
This is as bad as not keeping score in youth sports and everybody gets a participation ribbon.

Had some great times with my AMSHIP Buddies at the Diggers games in the 70's. How about the good old Toledo Blades? The Blade newspapers gave them great write ups. I believe they may have been a Red Wings farm club... Those were great times when our Dad's took us to the games and we sometimes got to drive the car home thanks to the Buckeye Beer on tap.

Hey, I'm not celebrating mediocrity. I want the teams to do well. It makes for a much better atmosphere at games and builds civic pride.

If you read closely.....my point is that a smart business model for running a professional sports franchise means insulating your attendance (ie keep it from falling off the face of the earth)from when things are going south on the playing surface. Ever been to the Sports Arena or Ned Skeldon when those teams sucked? Are you kidding me? Pathetic attendance. Was that management's decision to let it happen?

Nowadays....the attendance is maintained, mostly due to better selling of the live game experience. If you think ownership "doesn't care" as long as they're bringing it in at the gate....well, let me tell you that any owner will tell you business is almost ALWAYS better when a team is successful, and the expense of special apprearances, promos, fireworks, etc aren't needed.

Maintaining attendance and maintaining a quality team are not hand in hand. Hell, I've seen professional team that win and STILL can't draw (ie: Tampa Bay Rays). Bottom line is.....I think you are way out of line if you think that the Walleye ownership is indifferent to or willingingly concedes putting a winning team on the ice because they're making a profit without doing so. We all know, more profit is better than less profit.

I guess I just find it laughable to read a commentary (not a reporting, as you define it) critical of this ownership, especially given our past history of the numerous failed franchises and obvious profiteering (Gladieux, et al)on One Main Street. They got away with murder for years, without putting a nickel into the team (nice handmade logo, Storm) or the joint. We went to that place IN SPITE of the ownership. Problem is...it eventually catches up with them and they go belly up.

One final note.... salaries etc, are far less impactful in the minor leagues than in the majors....it's not like you can go out and buy the best players. Outside of making a good coaching hire and making good personnel decisions (often neither are a matter of a decision not to spend more or less money) what can a minor league franchise really do to insure a winner anyway??