Interesting history between Dr Rees and suspended nurse

You could read a lot into this. What is clear is that in the end, UT and taxpayers will pay.

Very true.

Of course, I absolutely would not blame the family for suing. I'm not normally a "sue happy" person, but if anyone has legitimate reason to file a lawsuit it's this family.

(For the record, I have a family member who had a kidney transplant at UTMC a few years ago. The surgery went well, and there were no issues.)

In confused. What is UTMC?

Ooooooooh wait, you mean the former Medical College of Ohio? Man, you really should have linked a Blade article to help clear this up for everyone!

It appears to the casual observer that Dr. Rees (who is a genius) knew that Lemay was incompetent for several years.

She wouldn't be a member of a union, would she?

You think that this ass is a "genius"???? Apparently, the Courts in Ohio would disagree with you. He was clearly guilty of workplace violence. I would not, put it past someone like him, to possibly go as far as setting someone up. There is a whole lot more to this story. And Grossman needs to STHU and quit stirring the pot! And also what does a union have to do with an OR Tech being assaulted while she was only doing her job??

Easy, unions make it hard to fire incompetents and mistake prone employees

Yeah, actually... perhaps you know him much better than I do. I have only known him for about 10 years. I really got to know him when he removed a kidney from my neice and put it in my sister. He is a medical genius.

Now, if you are suggesting that the incident involving the kick, yeah... that was wrong. But one bad act may illustrate poor common sense. It does not remove the keen intellect for the human physiology and the groundbreaking efforts to enhance collaboration in the tranplant world.

What does a union have to do with a person getting kicked? Nothing.
What does a union have to do with less than competent people being protected? Gee... I don't know.

Now, please explain to me what you know about Dr. Rees outside of what you read on the internet.

Whose life in your immediate family has he extended or saved.

I'll wait.

No, unions reach an agreement with an administration as to the steps and procedures necessary to dismiss incompetent or problematic employees to protect the worker from unfair dismissal. If administration is unable to follow those agreed-upon steps and procedures the employee may not be as incompetent as the administration.

^^ "He was clearly guilty of workplace violence"...got a real kick out of that statement

Only on the internet can a man who was gifted by God with the ability and willingness to heal, who went through all the training and schooling, who worked the long hours, had the difficult conversations, who has stood and prayed with families and whose record is not in question, be called an "ass" and completely dismissed by some random person of comparibly little accomplishment because they read something on the internet and has no first hand knowledge.

I'm not sure that it was a case of the union protecting an incompetent employee.

From the court case that I linked above:

Melanie Lemay testified that she has worked as a registered nurse for defendant for 29 years, with the past six or seven years being in the operating department. Lemay related, though, that she does not regularly assist in surgeries and that she had only assisted in two or three kidney transplants prior to the incident.

("the incident" being the 2009 kicking incident, not the current incident)

Yes, she may have more surgical experience under her belt since 2009. However, it sounds like surgery isn't her main area of experience.

That doesn't necessarily mean that she is an incompetent nurse - just one put into a role that might be outside the scope of her expertise.

Yeah, that is why I said that "it appeared that way to the casual observer."

To be fair, it's not unusual for a certain type of ass-y personality to exist among surgeons.

Not sure if it's because that type of person is drawn to the career, or if being a surgeon turns them that way. (Or some combination of both.)

Don't get me wrong...if I'm being operated on, I want the surgeon with the best knowledge and technical skills. That's why a good surgeon can get away with less-than-pleasant personality issues.

It's too bad that the public (taxpayers and healthcare consumers) will likely never know what really happened, as there will probably be a confidential settlement.

Yes, it was human error. But there may very well have been problems with the procedures and systems in place that lead to the error happening.

That doesn't necessarily mean that she is an incompetent nurse - just one put into a role that might be outside the scope of her expertise..

I was thinking the same thing.

From what I understand, nurses in an O.R. are often times the surgeons 3rd, 4th, and 5th hand. In an intense surgery (and you have to figure an organ transplant is intense), that nurse needs to know/memorize exactly how the surgery is supposed to go, anticipate what the surgeon will need next, and be flexible enough to make adjustments should complications arise. O.R. nurses, especially nurses who work on particular surgeries, are an entirely different skill set than E.R. or ward nurses. Not better, just different.

As far as the Dr. goes, I don't know him--but stop and realize the pressure he is under during every surgery. You don't get to be an organ transplant surgeon being a schmuck. There's too much risk. People may live if a kidney surgery fails, but they are on dialysis (i.e. quality of life changes drastically). The massive amount he must pay for malpractice insurance to protect himself from malcontents who don't follow post-surgery instructions and fuck up his work...or just plain surgeries that don't work (surgery is never 100%) must weigh on him as well. The times he has had to deal with distraught families after those surgeries that didn't work and the pressure from families who turn their loved one's lives to his hands.

So......you might want to forgive the Dr. this one "high-strung" moment where he lost it thinking his surgery was being fucked up. It's not her ass that's on the line--it's his. Multi-millions of dollars on the line. As it is right now.

Oh crap, here we go--I'm "for" workplace violence...c'mon, bring it on...even though you know that is entirely not the point of this post.

Oh, and I forgot... when this GENIUS was not doing surgery, teaching urology, or establishing national non-profits, he was writing the software used to match donors. If a waiting list for kidneys is eliminated due to the growth of the nonsimultaneous altruistic donor model, it will be solely his accomplishment.

No, he's just an "ass."

Well said, OHT, and I was thinking the same thing about the high stress involved in major surgery. Not to justify the alleged kick, just to put it into context.

I don't work in surgery but have worked for surgeons for 20 years, and what people don't think about is the stress level of the job, you have someone opened up on the table in front of you and you need an instrument you may be a little abrupt when asking for what you need, because time is of the essence and if you are any good you don't want to keep your patient under any longer than you have to. Dr Rees has done wonderful things for the transplant world,and I'm sure he will continue to. I'm certain he feels horrible about this.

I'm a little late to the party, but I've never let that slow me down before.

I did a little research and wrote about IQ ranges here:
IQ range. In this case I don't know RockChick personally, but having read her posts for some time I would guess that she is of average intelligence. So, in the four ranges I listed below, RockChick is likely 85 - 114.

Borderline Mental Disability: 70 - 84
Average in the US: 85 - 114
Above Average or Bright: 115 - 129
Genius: 180 and up

The thing is that Dr. Michael Rees probably is a genius. So do a little math and imagine this: You, RockChick, are called upon to perform a very complex task and someone's life is held in the balance. Succeed and the person lives; fail and the person dies right there - a death that you can prevent if you're good enough. You have a few assistants, and the assistants have their shortcomings but they are the best you can find, so you train them and begin the task.

Then you discover the big mistake. Someone has saddled you with the local village idiot because your assistant is taking a rest break. The person isn't exactly retarded, but everyone knows he isn't the sharpest tack in the box either. This is the guy that picks his nose in public, examines the yield for Lord only knows what, then disposes of said yield by wiping it in the nearest door jamb. He farts in public and thinks it's funny, and he's given up balancing his checkbook because the task is too difficult for him.

You've got someone's life in the balance. The family is depending on you to save their loved one's life.

How long before your temper snaps?

Now do the math. The surgical nurse is likely above average IQ, about 130. Dr. Michael Rees is about 180 or more - about 50 points difference. So Dr. Rees working with the surgical nurse is about like you working with the developmentally challenged person described earlier. This means stress, and now in the middle of this someone throws a howler monkey in the room and you wonder why Rees loses his temper? I think it's likely the man cannot imagine anyone actually doing something like this to him in the middle of an operation.

Then Rees has to go to court over the incident, and a jury of his peers can't be found in the immediate area. The man is so far ahead of the judge and both attorneys it isn't even funny. He's arguing an incident that was likely justified with a group of primitives, and he knows that even if he wins he loses - no one understands what happened or why.

As far as union labor goes, the presence of a labor union in a hospital has everything to do with 'it'. Labor unions defend incompetent members and keep them in the workplace when they should be somewhere else. McDonald's, maybe.

Me, I want Dr. Rees.

Sorry for you MadJack but I too am a Nurse so I guess you can score me a little higher on the IQ scale. I too am also married to a Dr. who is considered by more than a few people in the world to be a genius so spare me! I might add that the nurses at St. Vincents are in the UAW and provide excellent care.

Hey! Where's the 130 - 179 range?

:-)

That was the middle class that was eliminated due to the economy.

It look like this woman is incompetent, which is why she wasn't on regular rotation, AND she had previous bad blood with Dr. Rees at the time of this recent incident. Could she have fucked this up on purpose? 29 years in, she's at the end of her career, go out with a kick in his nuts. OR she's just stupid and everyone has been covering for her just a little too long. OR she's losing it. I'm sorry, the operating rooms are right next to each other, they were still closing the donor when the kidney was handed off to be taken a few steps to the recipients table, WHY THE HELL ARE YOU CLEANING UP ANYTHING NOW??? AND HOW DO YOU NOT KNOW WHERE THE KIDNEY IS IF YOU ARE EVEN PAYING THE SLIGHTEST BIT OF ATTENTION???? This makes absolutely no sense. Either she's a retard or she did it on purpose.

Please don't make sweeping assumptions about the two nurses involved in this awful unfortunate medical disaster. Thank God it wasn't a situation where someone lost their life. And please don't use the word retard in the year 2012....it is really offensive and there are much better words to use like my fave "fckwit". I am sure that there is a whole lot more to this story. And by the way, does anyone have any idea how The Blade got the names of the 2 nurses involved?

Don't waste your time and energy being sorry for me, RockChick. Clearly you have better things to do with both.

So you're a nurse and you're not happy with my assessment of your IQ. Alright then, let's gift you a few points and move you up to the next level; Above Average or Bright: 115 - 129. There now. All better?

And you're married to a Doctor - good for you! And your Doctor is considered by more than a few people to be a genius. Okay, that's good enough for me. I guess we can make you a genius by injection.

Will someone please explain to me why I attract insecure neurotics? AC? Where are you, buddy?

You know something Holland? I wouldn't give a royal rat's ass in a ten dollar blender just how abrasive, caustic or unreasonable the surgeon is - so long as he gets results, and especially if he's getting those results while he's operating on me or my friends and family. If the nurses don't like it, let 'em quit and go to work somewhere else.

I wouldn't mind seeing the 'shitty' side of these people at all. They're making demands on behalf of their patients, and they do it to ensure success. I like that kind of attitude when the best part of my personality is on the line.

The majority of gifted surgeons aren't asses to the staff. Being a jackass doesnt make a better surgeon, it just makes him a jackass. Me, I'd rather have a little harmony, or at least professional courtesy, in the OR when I'm operated on. I wouldn't want stressed out OR nurses catering to a prima donna surgeon.

I heard they had to search for the lost kidney for an hour before they found it.

And, ( I hit post before I should have) doesn't that kind of implicate everyone in the process? I thought these things need to happen quickly? Thank god the receiving person wasn't opened up and ready to get then implant.

So rock chick, no answer to my question about the depth of your personal knowledge of the man you call names and suggest is NOT a genius?

Add that to the credibility gap along with supposedly being married to a "genius doctor," yet having an easy ability to anonymously criticize, invalidate and minimize doctors who you do not know on the internet.

"I really got to know him when he removed a kidney from my neice and put it in my sister. He is a medical genius."

You saw one side of this obviously gifted physician. As a close family member of a patient he treated, you seem heavily influenced by an obviously lifesaving experience. You don't seem to be an objective observer. That's Ok. But you couldn't possibly know for certain whether or not he can display another side altogether when dealing with the surgical staff. I find your criticism of RockChick posts illogical and based on emotion. Arent you also anonymously criticizing, invalidating and minimizing on the internet, the stated opinion of someone you do not know?

So rock chick, no answer to my question...

I wouldn't hold my breath on this one, JustRead. Between work, union duties and Mensa meetings I doubt she has time.

On another note -

Please don't make sweeping assumptions about the two nurses involved in this awful unfortunate medical disaster.

No. This is exactly the time for sweeping assumptions and I think Nana got it right. This woman may well be vindictive and out for a little revenge or she's an incompetent retard and has been protected by the labor union for too long.

Thank God it wasn't a situation where someone lost their life.

What are you, a retard? It's a kidney transplant. People without 'em (kidneys, that is) are not famous for their longevity. Both the donor and the recipient were still alive at the end of the surgery. Now try explaining to these people and their families just how a nurse screwed the whole thing up and we'll have to begin the search all over again for a willing matching kidney donor, but somehow it wasn't the nurse's fault.

And please don't use the word retard in the year 2012

I don't feel like waiting for 2013.
Retard.

Retard, retard, retard. Boy do I feel better.

Classy madjack - Real classy. But I've learned not to expect anything more from your posts.

In the genius bracket of the Stanford-Binet IQ test, duh, you moron. With documented proof, no less.

Binet Scale of Human Intelligence
IQ Score Original Name Modern Term
Over 140 Genius or Near-Genius
120 - 139 Very Superior
110 - 119 Superior
90 - 109 Average or Normal
80 - 89 Dull Dull Normal
70 - 79 Borderline Deficiency Mild
50 - 69 Moron Moderate
20 - 49 Imbecile Severe
Below 20 Idiot Profound

Of course, there's also the Wechsler Adult Intelligence Scale and some other tests out there too.

My daily dealings with normal people who are somehow trusted to drive massive objects around at high rates of speed and pay attention while doing it, people who are free to procreate yet they cannot tell the difference between a standard power cable and an Ethernet patch cord, people who can tell me everything about the last season of Jersey Shore yet who couldn't install a new toilet, faucet, electrical outlet, or set up their new TV without screwing it up, people who are LITERALLY running around with access to the entire Internet in their pocket yet can't seem to spend 5 minutes to Google and read an answer to a question, are stressful enough. Then I have to deal with the FUCKING howler monkeys out there whose mouths or keyboard fingers fire off on reflex before Brownian motion brings their two remaining brain cells into contact that insist that the Earth was created 6000 years ago, that Jesus rode dinosaurs, that God hates fags, that Obama is a Kenyan-born commie socialist Nazi, that supply-side economics works, that the only rape that matters is "legitimate" or "forcible" rape and that you can't get pregnant from such, that birth control is taken like aspirin every time before a woman has sex, that evolution is merely a theory and "intelligent design" is valid too, and above all, that their far-out whacko nutjob ideas deserve equal air time so the people can decide whether or not their claims that 2+2=5 are more valid than the entire educational, technologic, and scientific community standing behind 2+2=4.

And then people go off on me for fucking using the word "fuck" so fucking much, because using bigger words to express how stupid some people are and how exasperated I am would be pointless as nobody would know what they mean nor bother to look them up. Fuck.

Having said all that and gone way off topic, let me say this:

It sounds like Dr. Rees has way high standards for his surgical team. He's probably a perfectionist prick, which is great if he's doing surgery on you and not so good if you have to work with him. He needs to take a chill pill and understand that he can't always have the best of the best and that people do fuck up or somehow don't always understand what you spell out to them. At the same time, his team needs to realize he's a perfectionist prick and deal with it. If Nurse Lemay isn't cut out for working with him, he should have said so a long time ago and be done with it. Some people just cannot get on the same wavelength.

That said, clearly there was some sort of lack of professionalism going on in that OR AND someone Clearly Fucked Up. Accidentally or deliberately, I refuse to speculate and I'm sure a jury's going to decide that one, on top of all the internal and external investigations that have been triggered by such a colossal cluster-fuck.

Your mixing a few things, hun.

I didn't suggest that I was objective. Why in the world would I? I suggested that I actually know the man, as opposed to having him be someone I have only read about on the internet. And you are assuming that the contact with my family is the sole source of my dealings with him, and they are not. I worked in health care administration in a context that allowed me to learn a great deal from him and about him. No ma'am. Stilll...I am not objective. I am simply quite familiar. And he is a (thanks AC) Fucking genius.

I am suggesting that another poster is not credible, and doesn't know the man from, well..... Jack. A comment to an anonymous poster from an anonymous poster in the course of debate is quite different from making a judgement call that a complete stranger is not a genius because they kicked somebody.

She crawled out on an intellectual branch that would not hold her weight. And now there are two of you on that branch.

Freaking homonyms, You are. You're. Dam.

Hun? Really? Hun? And now you're judging MY intellectual capablities as well? You clearly have no idea what you're talking about in terms of my IQ thus rendering anything you post as having no credibility whatsoever. None. Those who know me, now no you don't know jack. I suspected as much (but tried to be polite about it). You just confirmed my suspicions.

What's eating you, Sweet Pea? She's defending a nurse or two that really screwed up big time. You really and truly agree with her?

Your mixing a few things, hun.

"You're", as in "You are", but you caught that one after the fact. The other word is Hon, short for Honey, sometimes used as a term of endearment. In this case, maybe not so much. 'Hon' can also be used as a condescending term to dismiss an impertinent female. For instance, "Adults are talking now, Hon. Why don't you go watch some TV?" or "No Honey, you are not the acting supervisor of the department."

The most appropriate response I've ever heard for this kind of a remark came to me many years ago during High School, from a genuinely tough teenage girl. She'd run afoul of a supremely asinine high school teacher who was supported by the administration, both of whom were equally arrogant and dictatorial. Anyway, they were filing out of the office as I was being escorted in - big surprise there, huh? - and I overheard the teacher say to the girl, "Alright Honey, now you just do as you're told and we'll get along fine." The girl pulled up short and without missing a beat said, "I'm not your fuckin' honey."

Ah, well. I always admired her, and I wonder whatever happened to her later on.

The thing is, the word hun should be capitalized. It's Hun, as in Attila the Hun.

I didn't suggest that I was objective. Why in the world would I?

Exactly. I could easily see RockChick leaping to this conclusion, but I'm surprised Holland didn't pick it up. You said you knew the man personally, and it sounded credible to me. What the hell, the man is a medical doctor and we all get sick at some time or another. More importantly, he's accounted an outstanding surgeon, so why not?

doesn't know the man from, well..... Jack.

Okay, JustRead. That'll be enough of that for today.

Lol, I like fckwit, too, actually. And you are correct, I forget myself. Being pissed off does that to one. :)

It wasn't a doctoral thesis people. I do this like texting and don't look back. Anywho... "Hun" was all of the above, and some more too. But mostly it should be taken as a term of endearmeant like when Paula Dean says "shoog." You people are in my living room, you know. :)

Your (haha) You're kind of all over the place. I said you were on a limb, toots. Relax. I no I don't no you.

Sure are some people hot to defame this great man. And they don't even know him. (Hey, we just stumbled on to my actual point.)

In no way did I seek to defame this patrticular surgeon, only to point out that: 1. Some brilliant, gifted surgeons do display outrageously bad behaviour in the OR. 2. Your stated close association with him as a close member of a patient's family who received life saving treatment has biased your opinion and that being biased under these circumstances is understandable. (It was in a later posting that you revealed you also worked with this surgeon in an administrative setting.)

I stand by both my comments. Surgeons can be shits to the staff. Members of patient's families who experienced a good outcome can be understandably biased in their favorable assessemnt of a life saving surgeon. I might also add that unless you scrubbed in and stood in the OR while any surgeon was working you can't guarantee that professional behaviour was displayed at all times, Hon.

Well, it's made national news:

http://www.foxnews.com/health/2012/08/25/kidney-for-ohio-patient-transplant-put-in-trash/?test=latestnews

In business school one of my professors made the point that doctors are often wrong, belligerent, abusive, etc. in tense situations. From a business perspective, and hospitals are all businesses now with profit as a major, major goal, it makes sense to get rid of the nurse, or a whole series of nurses, in order to preserve the economic usefulness of the doctor. The doctor may bring in patients from a large area. Nurses and nursing care don't bring in "new business." I kind of feel sorry for anyone in the nursing profession --

Some how this thread has veered from what I saw as a very tragic event for everyone involved. Can you imagine the pain and suffering by the two adult patients in this case?

Something seems fishy to me when the CEO of TU tries to placate the public on this horror story.

Of course everyone empathises with the patients. This post has segued into speculation about how such an event could happen. That's only normal.

Just recently Consumers Report rated UTMC third from last in a nine state, 147 hospital survey based on several criteria. All of those criteria involved procedures that were important for patient safety. Now, they 'lose' a healthy kidney. Again a result of some kind of procedural sloppiness. If the staff follows the correct protocols these events don't happen and patients don't suffer the consequences.

Its also natural for the institution to try to mitigate the bad PR this is generating. In the kidney matter they are using the "worse things have happened elsewhere argument". In the Comsumers Report horribly low rating they bashed the criteria used. They fear prospective patients will tell their Doc, "I'm not going to UTMC". The hospital AND the Doctors stand to lose revenue.

What UTMC needs to do is to quit making excuses, come clean about how this happened and explain how they plan to prevent any similar incident in the future. They need to address the hospital wide lack of effective patient safety protocols, especially infection control procedures. They have a long way to go to gain back the confidence of the public.

Sad to say, but until it hits their bottom line through reduced admission rates, they probably won't do anything but deny as much culpability as possible.

As I've posted elsewhere before, under no circumstances am I to be admitted to UTMC. Even with a time delay to get to another hospital I'd stand a better chance of surviving whatever the calamity might be that brought me there. I wonder if I could get an emergency bracelet that says "No UTMC Admission"?

Don't see why not, sounds like something that can legitimately be part of a living will/PoA. Just like a DNR order. And frankly when I hit the right age I'm going to get DNR tattooed between my tits...

So AC is female?
personally if i was in charge everyone would have been fired, doctor nurses anyone that was involved with that surgery or had any responsibility for that kidney.

Nope. You walked smack into a conversation between me and RockChick, and now think that it is about you or something.

TO RECAP: I tried to give a good man an honest compliment on the internet. Of course someone (who doesn't even know the guy) came along and questioned it. I would otherwise not be involved in this thread, and really didn't mean to get wrapped up in a conversation with her, let alone you.

And I didn't "reveal" that I "worked" with him. I "revealed" that I worked in the same business and knew him in that context. What if I played fucking golf with the guy? It is so outside of your experience that it doesn't matter. And I am defending myself to you?

My God. You are a piece of work.

See TO RECAP again.

Thank you. I apologize for an honest compliment (about the doctor in this case) that became a hijack by the drama seekers.

Wouldn't there be a striking visual difference in appearance between a bad kidney and a healthy one? And wouldn't a trained nurse know the difference?

What a bitch.

Hey Anonymous Coward:

"Obama is a Kenyan-born commie socialist Nazi, that supply-side economics works.."

Hmm...Yes he is (w/the the exception of him being a Nazi) and yes they do...

Obvious troll is obvious, and I'm not feeding you.

From AnonymousCoward: and above all, that their far-out whacko nutjob ideas deserve equal air time so the people can decide whether or not their claims that 2+2=5 are more valid than the entire educational, technologic, and scientific community standing behind 2+2=4.

There you go. That kind of nails it, doesn't it?

It occurs to me that the energy, decibel level and monotony of the whacko nutjob message du jour tends to be inversely proportional to the veracity.

And then people go off on me for fucking using the word "fuck" so fucking much, because using bigger words to express how stupid some people are and how exasperated I am would be pointless as nobody would know what they mean nor bother to look them up. Fuck.

Well I'll be diggered! Ya larn sumpin' new ever' day.

Why wasn't the kidney quickly washed off with a sterile saline solution and transplanted anyway? If I was laying on an operating table, cut nearly in half, I'd take the chance. With maybe an enhanced course of antibiotics, what would be the downside, compared to no new kidney? I forgot--the patient might live to testify.

Better yet, if I need a kidney I'll go to Cuba and get state of the art medical treatment from the best hospital system in the World. A family member went to Manila for a kidney a few years ago but died on the table, so that's out.

^^I have no idea if you are joking or not, but taking the unnecessary risk of implanting a necrotic organ seems like a tailor-made way to make a malpractice attorney's career...

I picked up on that possibility a few months ago. May have even briefly mentioned it here, but I don't recall in what thread.

And I could be running a disinformation campaign too! Keep on guessing!

^^I have no idea if you are joking or not, but taking the unnecessary risk of implanting a necrotic organ seems like a tailor-made way to make a malpractice attorney's career...

! posted by oldhometown on Aug 27, 2012 at 04:29:15 pm # +

The malpractice attaches at the time the kidney hit the trash can. I'm talking about saving the patients' life.

BTW, what would be the thing to do if a heart were the organ involved? Let it lay in the can until the staff talked to someone in the Spitzer Building?

LOL...that's why I merely said possibility. :)

In Ohio we have tort reform. Trying to understand it, but it looks like each lawsuit might be worth $1- $1.5 million with the lawyers taking 1/3-1/2...

http://www.mcandl.com/ohio.html

I wish these people would get a lot more...

mom2 posted at 04:46:38 PM on Aug 27, 2012:
Linecrosser posted at 02:41:08 PM on Aug 26, 2012:

So AC is female?
personally if i was in charge everyone would have been fired, doctor nurses anyone that was involved with that surgery or had any responsibility for that kidney.

I picked up on that possibility a few months ago. May have even briefly mentioned it here, but I don't recall in what thread.

Looks like we'll need to see ACs' tits to make an informed guess!

Perhaps this thread is a possible answer to:

http://www.toledotalk.com/cgi-bin/tt.pl/article/119126

Made Huff too...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/25/kidney-in-trash-university-of-toledo-medical-center_n_1829877.html?utm_hp_ref=weird-news&ir=Weird%20News

And Fark: http://www.fark.com/comments/7287940/Its-OK-5-second-rule

A comment

Better wait on burning Ms Lemay at the stake, sometimes all the story isn't given to the media or the public!