Toledo Talk

Anderson's to close in Northwood

http://www.toledoblade.com/business/2012/11/19/The-Andersons-to-close-Northwood-store.html

Wonder if it's going to move to Oregon or some other place on the east side. Why hasn't the owner of the mall cleaned the place up?

created by bikerdude on Nov 19, 2012 at 05:16:50 pm     Business     Comments: 33

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They will not relocate or re-build at this time. Really sad to see them close but cannot blame them. This location was very convenient for me and I have always loked patronizing this company.

posted by Hoops on Nov 19, 2012 at 05:24:20 pm     #   2 people liked this

My guess is because there is no way to make the place profitable. That entire corridor is like a black hole. Money goes in and is never seen again.

posted by MoreThanRhetoric on Nov 19, 2012 at 05:25:09 pm     #  

They would do well on Navarre but I can't see them coming back to the east side.

posted by mk123 on Nov 19, 2012 at 06:45:28 pm     #   2 people liked this

It must really be bad. The rent number that I heard they paid on that buildings was unbelievable (as in low!) Their stores have never been money makers for them, but that one must be bleeding bad.

posted by slowsol on Nov 19, 2012 at 08:11:48 pm     #  

Why hasn't the owner of the mall cleaned the place up?

The whole mall issue is one of property speculation, not sound business operation. From the news reports, the owner clearly just bought the mall to get an income stream and to flip it on a bigger sucker. Well, as it turns out, he was the biggest sucker and he was left without a chair, since the music stopped in Toledo a long time ago. Same thing with the owners of Northtowne. Guys with a few million in cash, but no effin' sense whatsoever.

I'm sure the scrappers are making plans for the mall now. That's what happened to Northtowne. Numerous break-ins by scrappers started to make the place positively dangerous at night.

posted by GuestZero on Nov 19, 2012 at 09:13:21 pm     #  

i feel bad for my family on the east side. this was certainly their best option for groceries. when i lived downtown, this was where we shopped often as well.

that said, this closure is a loooooooooong time coming. that whole mall / structure needs to come down. there is no need for that density of shopping in that part of the world and that mall has seen better days.

posted by upso on Nov 19, 2012 at 10:40:24 pm     #   1 person liked this

We use that Anderson's as well because it's quicker and less traffic than trying to go to Talmadge... of course that whole 'less traffic' is probably part of the reason they're closing.

Just glad it's only this location.

And didn't Banner Mattress have to close their East Side store? Were they planning a new store or just consolidating into their other locations?

posted by MaggieThurber on Nov 20, 2012 at 09:18:12 am     #  

Banner has been advertising for months that they lost their lease, but remain open on Navarre. I heard they may be moving down the street in an old foodtwon, adjacent to ABC Warehouse

posted by Hoops on Nov 20, 2012 at 09:27:04 am     #  

It should be obvious that if Andersons already was making sufficient $$$ at the Woodville Mall location, they will find a place nearby and reopen?

posted by 6th_Floor on Nov 20, 2012 at 09:33:33 am     #  

They had been looking for a place on Navarre, according to one of the higher ups at the Woodville location. He wondered why they would go ahead and redo the air system if they were planning on moving/closing.

The entire Woodville strip should be an example of Urban Planning Failures 101. If you build a commercial strip and not neighborhoods, it will eventually die. There are no people living around the Woodville Mall. There is nothing to support it. That can, and have, and will drive somewhere else. It's a shame, I always liked the Andersons. I have been going there literally my entire life.

Knock the Woodville Mall down and be done with it.

posted by BusterBluth on Nov 20, 2012 at 11:49:34 am     #  

Woodville strip is not an example of Urban Planning Failures, but in failed demographic studies. When Sears built the store in Northwood, it was based on a demographic study that said the Toledo area was going to grow east.

Ooops, the actually expansion happened west, into Sylvania, Maumee, Springfield and eventually Monclova. The strip was built anticipating neighborhoods would be coming, but they didn't.

posted by MrsArcher on Nov 20, 2012 at 12:10:39 pm     #  

Uh, Buster, there are a shit-ton of people living around the Woodville Mall, I'm one of them!!! We have been shopping at Andersons and other places along Woodville and eating in the restaurants all the way to the Hi-Level, but it's not enough. Dammit!!! Gonna miss Andersons real bad, I just bought a landscape design from them and I was going to buy everything I needed from them in the spring. I know I can go other places, but them closing really sucks for a lot of reasons.

posted by nana on Nov 20, 2012 at 01:20:40 pm     #   1 person liked this

Banner was closing down because there old lease was ancient and therefore a great price. Once it expired they didn't want to pay more there fore the landlord kicked them out but I don't blame him. I think Goodwill is going in over there.

posted by mk123 on Nov 20, 2012 at 04:18:40 pm     #  

Banner is leaving Oregon and moving into Great Eastern, according to this article http://www.presspublications.com/from-the-press/10631-northwood-to-try-to-keep-the-andersons-store-in-the-city. Goodwill is moving into its former building on Navarre, as mk123 said.

I really liked Andersons, too. It's a local company and I enjoyed going there. They usually only had one check out aisle open, though, so that was a tip off that it wasn't busy. They are not relocating because they cannot find a building to lease on the east side that is as cheap to rent as at the mall, which the article says is $10,000 per month.

posted by renegade on Nov 21, 2012 at 07:09:42 pm     #  

Was Anderson's the last biz there?

posted by Molsonator on Nov 21, 2012 at 07:16:24 pm     #  

Sears is still in the mall.

posted by lfrost2125 on Nov 21, 2012 at 07:35:42 pm     #  

renegade posted at 06:09:42 PM on Nov 21, 2012:

Banner is leaving Oregon and moving into Great Eastern, according to this article http://www.presspublications.com/from-the-press/10631-northwood-to-try-to-keep-the-andersons-store-in-the-city. Goodwill is moving into its former building on Navarre, as mk123 said.

I really liked Andersons, too. It's a local company and I enjoyed going there. They usually only had one check out aisle open, though, so that was a tip off that it wasn't busy. They are not relocating because they cannot find a building to lease on the east side that is as cheap to rent as at the mall, which the article says is $10,000 per month.

Besides rent, what sort of shape would any of the commercial properties over that way be in? I don't even know if the former Hills or Food Town are still standing, and I don't know how they'd fit at Great Eastern. Keep in mind how much renovation would have to take place for The Andersons to move in to one of those properties.

posted by anonymouscoward on Nov 21, 2012 at 09:03:56 pm     #  

Anderson's retail division has lost money every year for several years in succession. They haven't been profitable since the housing market crashed. They have valiently hung in there and taken rather good care of their employees, although staff has been trimmed through attrition and fewer seasonals. Unless and until the economy becomes robust again I don't see them opening another location, even to replace Northwood.

It is hands down my favorite local operation. Their committment to the Toledo area through financial gifts and other support is unmatchable.

posted by holland on Nov 21, 2012 at 09:24:20 pm     #   1 person liked this

The link did not seem to work for me so here is one, I hope it works: http://www.presspublications.com/from-the-press/10631-northwood-to-try-to-keep-the-andersons-store-in-the-city.

It sounds like they tried to find a place but the rent was to high, even in Oregon. Sad.

posted by golddustwoman on Nov 21, 2012 at 11:45:19 pm     #  

renegade said: They are not relocating because they cannot find a building to lease on the east side that is as cheap to rent as at the mall, which the article says is $10,000 per month.

There are three major options if you want to keep it open. One, find another space to rent. Two, find another building and buy it. We're in the middle of a huge crash in property prices. You'd think there's a deal or two out there. And three, locate some vacant land and construct the building you want.

If holland's testimony is correct, this is all a moot point anyway. Like 6F said too, if they were making money, meaning an appropriate profit, they'd merely relocate. But this does bring up another issue. Why can't they perform a little renovation and seal the store out of the mall proper? I've seen demos where portions of malls remain standing. Anchor stores seem integral.

The same effort could be done here. Or is the entire WM site being essentially condemned in some fashion that makes it legally impossible to operate in an attached building? I feel I'm lacking details.

posted by GuestZero on Nov 22, 2012 at 12:59:08 am     #  

from golddustwoman's article link: "We can offer tax incentives to them if they build a new building. In turn, they should be able to pass the savings onto The Andersons. We will try to make it economically feasible."

Apparently what some municipal administrator thinks is economically feasible, isn't what a real fiscal conservative knows is economically feasible. Treating one taxpayer differently than another introduces a long-term instability in the function of the economy. It's not economically feasible, in the objective sense.

Our federal, state and local governments creep ever closer to forming an outright corporate-socialist culture. They are literally running out of people and organizations to tax.

posted by GuestZero on Nov 22, 2012 at 01:09:25 am     #   1 person liked this

GuestZero posted at 12:09:25 AM on Nov 22, 2012:

from golddustwoman's article link: "We can offer tax incentives to them if they build a new building. In turn, they should be able to pass the savings onto The Andersons. We will try to make it economically feasible."

Apparently what some municipal administrator thinks is economically feasible, isn't what a real fiscal conservative knows is economically feasible. Treating one taxpayer differently than another introduces a long-term instability in the function of the economy. It's not economically feasible, in the objective sense.

Our federal, state and local governments creep ever closer to forming an outright corporate-socialist culture. They are literally running out of people and organizations to tax.

The question is...who said that? That quote is not attributed.

posted by Sohio on Nov 26, 2012 at 07:41:45 am     #  

@MrsArcher, it most certainly qualifies as an Urban Planning failure just as much as any mall does.

The entire East Side outside of East Toledo's Main Street is an urban planning abomination. Neither Northwood or Oregon have anything resembling a downtown, and Northwood if bifurcated by a monstrous expressway where one should be. The Woodville Mall is just one of the casualties in a development model based on the 1945-1990 world and has been proven to be unsustainable economically a million times. This is #1,000,001.

@Nana, no, not very many people live near the Woodville Mall. There are two subdivisions adjacent to the property, but that's it. Northwood is a collection of seperated subdivisions surrounded by fields with absolutely no sense of community, walk-ability, bik-ability, etc. Oregon isn't much better (and sadly neither is much of America).

Simply saying, if you build a mall in the middle of a field surrounded by disconnected housing, you create an environment in which you need a car to get there. So obviously once I get in my car I can easily just cruise on over to the newer shiner mall. For this reason Fallen Timbers is particularly vulnerable to the same fate as the Woodville Mall, only that setup is "Mall 2.0: Take Off The Roof And Reveal The Fake Downtown."

posted by BusterBluth on Nov 26, 2012 at 10:55:52 pm     #   2 people liked this

BusterBluth posted at 09:55:52 PM on Nov 26, 2012:

@MrsArcher, it most certainly qualifies as an Urban Planning failure just as much as any mall does.

The entire East Side outside of East Toledo's Main Street is an urban planning abomination. Neither Northwood or Oregon have anything resembling a downtown, and Northwood if bifurcated by a monstrous expressway where one should be. The Woodville Mall is just one of the casualties in a development model based on the 1945-1990 world and has been proven to be unsustainable economically a million times. This is #1,000,001.

@Nana, no, not very many people live near the Woodville Mall. There are two subdivisions adjacent to the property, but that's it. Northwood is a collection of seperated subdivisions surrounded by fields with absolutely no sense of community, walk-ability, bik-ability, etc. Oregon isn't much better (and sadly neither is much of America).

Simply saying, if you build a mall in the middle of a field surrounded by disconnected housing, you create an environment in which you need a car to get there. So obviously once I get in my car I can easily just cruise on over to the newer shiner mall. For this reason Fallen Timbers is particularly vulnerable to the same fate as the Woodville Mall, only that setup is "Mall 2.0: Take Off The Roof And Reveal The Fake Downtown."

This theory does not explain Southwyck.

posted by anonymouscoward on Nov 26, 2012 at 11:45:52 pm     #  

What the media doesn't mention is whether Tireman next to the mall is also leaving. That place is always packed. Does The Andersons own Tireman?

"The question is...who said that? That quote is not attributed."

The city administrator, since he's talking before the quote and after the quote.

posted by bikerdude on Nov 27, 2012 at 10:26:07 am     #  

Andersons sold the Tireman franchise some time ago.

posted by Foodie on Nov 27, 2012 at 10:49:28 am     #  

@anonymouscoward, actually Southwyck is the first mall I use when I speak on the subject. Southwyck's circle has a diameter of almost exactly 1/2 mile, which is more or less the textbook size of a neighborhood. Southwyck is mall 1.0; it's roofed and zero people live there. Anytime people don't live there it's more vulnerable than it should be. Southwyck, like Woodville et al, is a destination not, for lack of a better word, a home.

Americans need to understand that malls are just fake downtowns. That's it. They have a clear advantage in being able to create a perfect (too perfect) downtown free of homeless men asking for change or unwanted strip clubs, and with constantly clean storefronts, etc. Look at Fallen Timbers, it's just what people want downtown Maumee to be. Take away the parking and just look at that strip. It's fake downtown. Hell down here in Columbus or fake downtown (Easton) is complete with fake telephone booths and lighting. It's basically Disneyland. It's all fake.

Mall 1.0 worked from 1950-2010, Mall 2.0 is hoping to work for this century. At some point Americans need to demand the construction of actual downtowns again, not stucco malls. We need real investment (e.g. no strip malls) with mixed-use models and, in the words of Lewis Mumford, to "forget the damned motor car and build the cities for lovers and friends." All of this other stuff is a corporation trying to put as little investment in to get the greatest return on its temporary geographical monopoly. It's not economically sustainable (as well as environmentally or socially).

posted by BusterBluth on Nov 27, 2012 at 09:27:11 pm     #  

I never bothered to notice that, BB. Now that you point it out, it's fairly obvious. Storefronts. Pavement-esque walkways. Benches. Yes, I see it now.

Demanding real downtowns, however, is fraught with problems. There must be an economic reason. The reason we had real downtowns a century ago, is because we didn't have cheap oil. Dirt-cheap oil, really. So people had to keep in close proximity as the high price of travel demanded.

But then America particularly exploded into urban production on cheap oil, building 80% of our current stock of buildings since WWII, so now we're spread out, largely linked by roads, cars and trucks. Too spread out, really, and petroleum is only depleting. So when crunched by a lack of cheap energy for transportation, we'll be crunched doubly hard with the sheer expense of essentially abandoning suburbs and exoburbs. So it's likely from the sheer expense of the matter, that downtown re-compression just can't happen. In some circumstances, sure.

But not for Toledo. You can't invoke any sort of urban planning thing for people who are this effin' poor. That's what's happening in East Toledo; the area's just becoming abandoned by planners, since there's no money in it for them. And nobody actually cares about people on the East Side. Neither economics nor morality will come to their aid.

Toledo will just Balkanize. Before that happens officially and permanently, there will be a lot of unofficial barriers put in place. Neighborhood by neighborhood. But even that's in the future. The practical short term is a continuing decline IAW the Detroit Model of urban decay.

posted by GuestZero on Nov 27, 2012 at 10:49:01 pm     #  

GZ even the people on the east side dont care about the east side, nobody puts down the east side like the people living on the east side.

posted by Linecrosser on Nov 27, 2012 at 10:58:47 pm     #  

Can't argue against that one, LC. There used to be a certain prideful insularity, from talking to the old timers here in "the nickel" (43605). But the demographic has to change, since they are getting too old, their children move away, and frankly the SectionEighting of Toledo has hit the nickel bad.

The North Side has become an 'LMHA desert'. A fellow blogger drove me around there a few days ago and I had to update my head from what I saw.

I'm hazy on what the difference is between LMHA and S8, but clearly there's a growing monobloc of managed properties in the North. In the nickel, I can't even tell, but I do notice lots of people around who never seem to go to work, yet live there just fine. They can't be "independently wealthy". There's got to be some sort of SSI thing going on.

posted by GuestZero on Nov 28, 2012 at 01:34:37 pm     #  

AH. More drive-by assumptions. You & 6th floor should get along just fine.

posted by Sohio on Nov 28, 2012 at 01:38:02 pm     #   1 person liked this

http://www.presspublications.com/from-the-press/10662-tireman-also-moving-from-the-woodville-mall

I guess Tireman is leaving, too, but relocating to Oregon.

posted by bikerdude on Nov 30, 2012 at 07:10:03 pm     #