Toledo Talk

Why No Fox On Buckeye Cable?

Anyone know what happened with Fox & Buckeye Cable System? Nothing from Toledo or Detroit. Guess I have to dig out the DTV Converter box.

created by ToledoDoug on Dec 12, 2012 at 07:05:28 pm     Media     Comments: 55

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From The Blade story: "Based on a demand by the parent companies of WTOL-TV Channel 11 and WUPW-TV Channel 36 Buckeye CableSystem stopped broadcasting Channel 36 at 5 p.m. today."

http://www.toledoblade.com/TV-Radio/2012/12/12/Buckeye-ordered-to-drop-Channel-36.html

posted by paulhem on Dec 12, 2012 at 07:28:04 pm     #  

So... Does this mean that people without cable or satellite won't be able to see Lions or the late games now? I only ask because typically Fox has NFC games..

posted by hunkytownsausage on Dec 12, 2012 at 07:36:00 pm     #  

Damn... Meant to say people WITH Buckeye cable..

posted by hunkytownsausage on Dec 12, 2012 at 07:39:03 pm     #  

hunkytownsausage: Fox Sports Detroit is Channel 110 on the standard service; channel 643 for HD... From their Web site, http://www.foxsportsdetroit.com/ it looks like they have the Lions and that's NFC

posted by paulhem on Dec 12, 2012 at 08:48:53 pm     #  

WHAT?????

How am I supposed to DVR new episodes of Bones and Glee now? I'm pissed!

Yeah, eventually fox.com puts the full episodes online, but then I'll be like 8 days behind. Grr....

posted by mom2 on Dec 12, 2012 at 08:57:55 pm     #  

BTW - it seems silly to me that WUPW's owner would expect everyone to pay more for Fox programming just because they share a news broadcast with WTOL now.

Give me a break...that's only one small component of the programming on the channel.

Greedy bastards.

I'm going to start watching all of my Fox programming on the channel out of Detroit now or online. Fuck WUPW.

posted by mom2 on Dec 12, 2012 at 09:06:58 pm     #   4 people liked this

Easy now.

posted by Molsonator on Dec 12, 2012 at 09:11:33 pm     #  

Eh...I've kind of found the whole WTOL/WUPW thing to be a little annoying anyhow, but now this is the icing on the cake.

I watch Channel 11 news every morning, but tomorrow I think I'm going to turn on Channel 13 instead.

posted by mom2 on Dec 12, 2012 at 09:18:38 pm     #   1 person liked this

I'm not sure I've heard of someone getting so upset over Bones and Glee.

posted by slowsol on Dec 12, 2012 at 09:18:54 pm     #   1 person liked this

"Fuck WUPW" mom2 I would never expect this tenacity out of you. Gotta say I'm pleasantly surprised.

That said, kind of a dumb move to drop Fox36, no matter how crappy the broadcast. NFL fans will have a major problem with this....

posted by hunkytownsausage on Dec 12, 2012 at 09:36:50 pm     #   2 people liked this

Nov 22, 2012 - Gigaom.com - The 2012 Cord Cutters gift guide for cable-free holidays

If you want to give a gift that keeps on giving, consider gadgets that help to get rid of that expensive pay TV subscription. Check out our Cord Cutters [video] gift guide.

Notes from the above Web page and video:

  • Roku is available starting at $50.
  • Apple TV costs $99.
  • Boxee TV is available for $98.
  • Vizio CoStar costs $99.
  • Mohu Leaf costs $40. - "The Leaf® will allow you access to free OTA (Over the Air) network programming such as NBC, ABC, CBS, and Fox (varies by location). To use the Leaf® with an SDTV you will need a digital converter box."

posted by jr on Dec 12, 2012 at 09:56:24 pm     #   3 people liked this

but ... but... but....
the season premiere of COPS featuring TOLEDO is on this saturday!!!!!!

nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

posted by upso on Dec 12, 2012 at 10:15:40 pm     #   1 person liked this

This is a retransmission consent issue. Don't have time to give a detailed post (maybe tomorrow if this is still lingering), but you can educate yourself.

FCC.gov: "Retransmission Consent": http://www.fcc.gov/encyclopedia/retransmission-consent

Wikipedia: Retransmission Consent

Basically, in your bill, you are paying a "per-subscriber" fee for every cable station you get. ESPN extorts the most (like $6 per subscriber)...tiny little niche channels like Nick Too get the least (about .02 per subscriber). Broadcast networks...although eroded from the glory days of the 60s, 70s, and 80s...have woken up to the fact they weren't getting paid like they think they should for channels the cable system is retransmitting over their systems. Now they want the money and they want a lot of it. At least on par with the top cable channels...because their audience is bigger. No two ways about it.

Fox/Newscorp is notorious for breaking bad over this issue. And it shows in their bottom line...they've doubled the retransmission consent fees they get from local stations.

FierceCable: News Corp. doubles Fox retransmission-consent revenue

News Corp. (Nasdaq: NWSA) executives said the company more than doubled the retransmission-consent fees it collects from cable operators and satellite TV providers during the quarter ending Sept. 30.

The media giant said that its television segment generated $156 million in operating income for its fiscal first quarter of 2013, up 17 percent compared to the same period last year. Increased retransmission-consent fees represented the biggest area of growth for the TV segment.

You can run to Detroit...but chances are they are coming up for renewal soon...and Fox is waiting for more cash from that station.

But....on the flip side, if ESPN is getting $6 per subscriber, why shouldn't a broadcast channel get that--especially during primetime when the audience would be generally much bigger than anything ESPN could muster (outside of some NFL football games)?

It's a huge mess. It will get worked out. These things can take anywhere between a week and a month...but they get worked out. There's no way this is dragging into either college bowl season or (gasp) American Idol season.

That ended up being longer than I thought...

posted by oldhometown on Dec 12, 2012 at 10:23:27 pm     #   3 people liked this

Oh and that Blade article is written by complete amateurs who know nothing about the television business.

The fact those two stations have a JOA in regards to news operations doesn't matter two shits in this dispute. Nada.

posted by oldhometown on Dec 12, 2012 at 10:25:17 pm     #  

UPSO: You won't miss COPS TPD http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/category/238118/fox-2-tv-schedule

posted by paulhem on Dec 12, 2012 at 10:32:31 pm     #   1 person liked this

With hi-speed Internet, who needs to bother with cable or TV?

I haven't had a tv in the house since the switch to a digital signal - we didn't know if our tv tower would do digital signals so we didn't bother to get the little converter boxes, and we live too far out for cable.

So we watch all 'TV' online - anything from Hulu.com to Netflix, and a couple 'free' sites. You can watch darn near everything when you want, and most of the time (except Hulu) commercial free.

Now I will admit I don't know about the availability of sports games - we have watched things like the presidential debates real-time, but we're not sports fans so have never went looking for those.

I'm so used to online viewing now, going to a friends or relative's and having to sit thru commercials is almost painful.

posted by MrsArcher on Dec 12, 2012 at 11:12:08 pm     #  

Oh geez people. You aren't hostages. Just get U-verse or Direct TV or Dish for crying out loud. Buckeye's been a ridiculous small time operator for as long as I can remember. I've got U-verse AND I still have a working TV tower and can switch easily to over the air digital if I lose U-verse, which has never happened, or if U-verse should get into one of these transmission disputes and drop a channel, which has not happened either.

What I don't get is a decent weather channel or Buckeye (gag) local sports. I dont miss either.

posted by holland on Dec 12, 2012 at 11:25:27 pm     #  

@paulhem
i don't have anything but basic cable! i'm screwed!

nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

posted by upso on Dec 13, 2012 at 12:19:53 am     #   1 person liked this

"Just get U-verse or Direct TV or Dish for crying out loud."

Why?

Isn't the MrsArcher, cutting-the-cord, option better?

The only over the air programming that I require is the NFL. After that, we can watch everything on DvD or downloaded over the Internet. Our Toast.net service seems fast enough.

We have the bare minimum cable package with Buckeye Cable, which provides mainly the local channels. But no Fox channel means a reduction in NFL viewing. This is the motivation to move on to something else, which I should have done long ago. We'll drop the cable and get the converter box and then one of the systems listed above. We won't need cable nor satellite TV.

For this Sunday, my small, portable digital TV will have to suffice for watching football on the local Fox channel. And Toledo COPS on Saturday night.

posted by jr on Dec 13, 2012 at 12:41:08 am     #  

holland posted at 10:25:27 PM on Dec 12, 2012:

Oh geez people. You aren't hostages. Just get U-verse or Direct TV or Dish for crying out loud. Buckeye's been a ridiculous small time operator for as long as I can remember. I've got U-verse AND I still have a working TV tower and can switch easily to over the air digital if I lose U-verse, which has never happened, or if U-verse should get into one of these transmission disputes and drop a channel, which has not happened either.

What I don't get is a decent weather channel or Buckeye (gag) local sports. I dont miss either.

I'm satisfied with my Buckeye service. I'm not sure the problem in this situation is Buckeye's fault - it seems like WUPW's owners may be causing the problem here. Or at least sharing the fault.

Anyhow, we tried DirecTV once - had a horrible experience with them, and switched back to Buckeye as soon as we could. U-verse isn't available in our area. Not really interested in trying another satellite provider based on my shitty experience with DirecTV.

posted by mom2 on Dec 13, 2012 at 12:44:54 am     #   1 person liked this

holland posted at 10:25:27 PM on Dec 12, 2012:

Oh geez people. You aren't hostages. Just get U-verse or Direct TV or Dish for crying out loud. Buckeye's been a ridiculous small time operator for as long as I can remember. I've got U-verse AND I still have a working TV tower and can switch easily to over the air digital if I lose U-verse, which has never happened, or if U-verse should get into one of these transmission disputes and drop a channel, which has not happened either.

What I don't get is a decent weather channel or Buckeye (gag) local sports. I dont miss either.

I'm satisfied with my Buckeye service. I'm not sure the problem in this situation is Buckeye's fault - it seems like WUPW's owners may be causing the problem here. Or at least sharing the fault.

Anyhow, we tried DirecTV once - had a horrible experience with them, and switched back to Buckeye as soon as we could. U-verse isn't available in our area. Not really interested in trying another satellite provider based on my shitty experience with DirecTV.

posted by mom2 on Dec 13, 2012 at 12:44:54 am     #  

1) Rokus are pretty awesome particularly if you know of some useful "private channels" http://www.rokuprivatechannels.com/ http://www.roku-channels.com/

2) Existing antennas/towers work just fine with digital signal unless you are actually in a bad reception area. Digital is all or nothing.

3) The finger to Buckeye, WTOL, and WUPW, and all their owners. Stale old media, fighting to keep their outdated business models relevant because they can't think up anything better that allows them to make money.

posted by anonymouscoward on Dec 13, 2012 at 01:19:29 am     #   4 people liked this

http://www.google.com/tv/

I'm just biding my time.

posted by holland on Dec 13, 2012 at 01:55:41 am     #  

The info I saw yesterday said CH52 Fox Detroit was being removed also

posted by Hoops on Dec 13, 2012 at 09:35:31 am     #  

We have been cable and satellite free for a couple years and have never looked back. We have a digital antenna on the house (it was like going back in time when I put it up) and we watch any "cable" shows on the internet. I get a kick out of going the look I get when I tell the DirectTV saleskids in BestBuy that I don't pay for television. It's like telling them that Jersey Shore is not actually reality.

posted by MoreThanRhetoric on Dec 13, 2012 at 10:24:47 am     #   2 people liked this

It's like telling them that Jersey Shore is not actually reality.

WTF! My head is spinning!

posted by SensorG on Dec 13, 2012 at 10:36:08 am     #  

https://fiber.google.com/about/

posted by jbtaurus98 on Dec 13, 2012 at 12:20:23 pm     #  

MoreThanRhetoric posted at 09:24:47 AM on Dec 13, 2012:

We have been cable and satellite free for a couple years and have never looked back. We have a digital antenna on the house (it was like going back in time when I put it up) and we watch any "cable" shows on the internet. I get a kick out of going the look I get when I tell the DirectTV saleskids in BestBuy that I don't pay for television. It's like telling them that Jersey Shore is not actually reality.

We're finally making this move. I've been pushing the idea on my wife the last couple of years, but we decided the time was right as we bought a new house and are in the process of moving. I bought a Roku and have Netflix and Amazon Prime memberships. To be honest, I'm looking forward to increasing my quiet reading time.

posted by researcher on Dec 13, 2012 at 12:52:48 pm     #  

Am I not following something here? Google Fiber benefits us in this area how..........??

posted by Foodie on Dec 13, 2012 at 02:28:24 pm     #  

We have all of the above - Roku, Netflix and an Amazon Prime membership plus Apple TV. Standard fare (major) network TV shows are of no interest to us. Aside from movies (generally not current releases), Netflix, Amazon and Apple seem to be heavy on rebroadcasting sitcoms, crime dramas and so called reality shows. No desire to watch any of them.

Two cable channels that get a lot of play in my home are Food Network and HGTV. Last I knew, Roku was no longer able to stream those two. Even when they were, it was limited, rebroadcasts.

While cutting the cord has been of great interest to me for some time, I've yet to figure out just how I can continue to enjoy Food and HGTV via Roku or other streaming options. We are definitely NOT interested in watching programming on a computer monitor or mobile device.

Another cable channel we do watch for sheer fantasy entertainment is Wealth TV - which I do see is available via Roku for $2.99/month.

Any suggestions how someone like me could cut the cord and still enjoy what I currently enjoy?

posted by Foodie on Dec 13, 2012 at 02:39:37 pm     #  

We are definitely NOT interested in watching programming on a computer monitor or mobile device.

Some laptops have an HDMI out to attach to a "monitor"...which could, in fact, be your home television. Might be something to think about.

I'm also a Roku/Amazon/Hulu only house. New movies, I just go to Redbox and splurge the $1.

Don't know how much money I save. I do enjoy sports and if there's a game I can't stream via ESPN 3 or other source, I end up shelling out beer money at the local watering hole with big screens.

Ah well...get me out of the house.

posted by oldhometown on Dec 13, 2012 at 02:55:55 pm     #  

Google Fiber does not benefit the area now, but is wildly popular in KC. Just keeping my fingers crossed for a Toledo roll out.

posted by jbtaurus98 on Dec 13, 2012 at 02:58:23 pm     #  

jbtaurus98 posted at 01:58:23 PM on Dec 13, 2012:

Google Fiber does not benefit the area now, but is wildly popular in KC. Just keeping my fingers crossed for a Toledo roll out.

Dec 12, 2012 article

Uh-oh, here comes some holiday bad news for the cable and content incumbents: Speaking today at the Dealbook conference, chairman Eric Schmidt insisted that Google Fiber isn’t just some kooky attempt to turn Kansas into a high-speed-Internet Oz. ”We’re running it as a business,” Mr. Schmidt told moderator Andrew Ross Sorkin.

What’s more, he added that it’ll be available in ”hopefully more cities, if we’re able to expand our service.” The company is trying to decide where right now.

Dec 13, 2012 article

Seattle will join Chicago, Kansas City, [Bristol], Tenn. and other cities with its very own gigabit broadband network. The proposed plan would see a mix of fiber-to-the-home, mobile broadband and gigabit point-to-point wireless services. The city will partner with Gigabit Squared to make it happen.

Gigabit Squared’s first commitment was in Chicago, which it announced in October.

What’s fascinating about all of these models is that they are bypassing traditional ISPs, such as the telcos and cable firms to build out city-specific programs where the municipality and a private company work together to build out the network.

Google took this same approach in Kansas City when it chose that town for its Google Fiber deployment. And lest other municipalities feel left out Google said this week that it would expand Google Fiber to more cities, while Gigabit Squared still has four more towns left if it follows its original plan.

posted by jr on Dec 13, 2012 at 03:16:43 pm     #  

Hopefully, we'll see it in this area before I'm too old to care.

If I'm not mistaken, Buckeye made a huge investment a few years back and strung fiber around most of this area. Wonder if what they strung would accomodate the gigabit speeds?

posted by Foodie on Dec 13, 2012 at 03:41:01 pm     #  

This is American Spirit's fault.
But not Fox Detroit's fault... so BCI is back in the hot seat.

A great reason to evaluate what I actually watch and what I pay BCI each month. I may need to cut back on paying the blocks for cable so I can pay the blocks to read the online blade.

posted by justread on Dec 13, 2012 at 04:18:37 pm     #  

This is American Spirit's fault.

Why shouldn't a local broadcast channel carried on a cable system...one that attracts many more viewers than say vH1, AMC, or TBS...not get the per-subscriber fee those cable channels get (if not more)?

Clear reception of local broadcast channels are still one of the biggest draws for people to subscribe to cable. Why shouldn't they get paid for their product...since cable indirectly profits off of the availability of their product on their system? Remember how small-dish satellite rolled out in the late 1990s? I do. Dish and DirecTV didn't "take off" until spot-beam sat technology made it possible to have local broadcast channels on their systems (saving people from switching back-and-forth between antenna and satellite service). Once the locals were on board, and the price difference was noted, the sat companies started competing well.

How is this solely American Spirit's fault for saying "we are valuable to you--pay us like you do your most valuable cable-only network". Fox has made no bones about its desire to be paid as such for the network programming it provides local affiliates.

posted by oldhometown on Dec 13, 2012 at 04:35:06 pm     #  

Cable providers just cannot pay that much for the major network broadcasts as it does cable only. Think about it, you can put up an HD antenna and get the same channel FOR FREE. The major networks make way more money from advertising than the cable only channels.

posted by MattL on Dec 13, 2012 at 04:41:06 pm     #  

The major networks make way more money from advertising than the cable only channels.

1. Who cares? Why can't they make more? They draw the audience, they should get paid.

2. Why do they make more money? Because more people are watching. More people watching = more people watching, usually on cable/sat = value.

Think about it, you can put up an HD antenna and get the same channel FOR FREE.

And you could not subscribe to cable and exist in that world. Most people who subscribe to cable want local channels included (by tradition and by demand). That is a value to cable. Cable doesn't want to pay...fine, but they lose some value not having a local broadcast channel on board because their consumers expect it to be there.

posted by oldhometown on Dec 13, 2012 at 04:53:36 pm     #  

We've had cable forever and until the past few months been satisfied. They finally resolved out neighbor transmission problems. Yeah!

I understand Fox in Toledo and Cable having a feud. But Detroit Fox channel? That doesn't seem to make any sense.

Is that out to screw those like my husband who is in loved with Bones and Cops? We both like Fox Sports, baseball and football.

posted by jackie on Dec 13, 2012 at 05:04:53 pm     #  

oldhometown posted at 03:35:06 PM on Dec 13, 2012:

This is American Spirit's fault.

Why shouldn't a local broadcast channel carried on a cable system...one that attracts many more viewers than say vH1, AMC, or TBS...not get the per-subscriber fee those cable channels get (if not more)?

Clear reception of local broadcast channels are still one of the biggest draws for people to subscribe to cable. Why shouldn't they get paid for their product...since cable indirectly profits off of the availability of their product on their system? Remember how small-dish satellite rolled out in the late 1990s? I do. Dish and DirecTV didn't "take off" until spot-beam sat technology made it possible to have local broadcast channels on their systems (saving people from switching back-and-forth between antenna and satellite service). Once the locals were on board, and the price difference was noted, the sat companies started competing well.

How is this solely American Spirit's fault for saying "we are valuable to you--pay us like you do your most valuable cable-only network". Fox has made no bones about its desire to be paid as such for the network programming it provides local affiliates.

Raycom, posing as American Spirit for reasons of an FCC nature, has decided that WUPW (That lil station that I have known since Larry founded it) is worth what WTOL is worth.
Not what WUPW is worth.
That and I have an irrational dislike for American Spirit.
Semi rational maybe.

posted by justread on Dec 13, 2012 at 08:19:13 pm     #  

justread: do not discount the pressure Fox is putting on its affiliates to extract gobs more retransmission revenue (see the article I linked to earlier).

Point being--regardless of FCC ownership posturing or personal feelings or negotiation strategery--Fox wants its piece and more. And it is willing to have stations flex their options in order to get it.

WUPW may be a "little" station, but it carries Fox Sports programming and American Idol (still a ratings powerhouse, although "The Voice" is really cutting into them deep). Valuable chips...

posted by oldhometown on Dec 13, 2012 at 08:53:00 pm     #  

http://www.toledoblade.com/TV-Radio/2012/12/14/BCSN-terminates-relationship-with-WTOL-over-level-of-service.html Who didn't see this coming? "Mr. Wilkowski said the lawsuit and BCSN issue have nothing to do with each other and are separate matters." Who are Block/Blade/Buckeye kidding?

posted by TrilbyGuy on Dec 14, 2012 at 03:06:11 am     #  

TrilbyGuy posted at 02:06:11 AM on Dec 14, 2012:

http://www.toledoblade.com/TV-Radio/2012/12/14/BCSN-terminates-relationship-with-WTOL-over-level-of-service.html Who didn't see this coming? "Mr. Wilkowski said the lawsuit and BCSN issue have nothing to do with each other and are separate matters." Who are Block/Blade/Buckeye kidding?

Wilkowski used to have a small crumble of credibility.
Anywho...
Kind of fun to watch two media MONOPOLIES fight it out.

posted by justread on Dec 14, 2012 at 07:39:33 am     #  

Bumping this back up because I'm curious. I see the ads the Blade is running denouncing the local FOX affiliate. Is there any hint of a resolution?

It looks like Buckeye subscribers have few choices, either suck it up or get a different cable/satellite/phone provider.

posted by holland on Jan 03, 2013 at 06:53:20 pm     #  

Congress should have snuck "a la carte" cable into the fiscal cliff deal.

posted by JohnnyMac on Jan 03, 2013 at 06:57:57 pm     #  

I don't see any reason for Buckeye to relent. It's a bit like a newly hired employee asking for a raise even though he hasn't done anything to deserve it. In fact, if you watch Fox over the air, you'll notice they are running very low on local advertising. Fox needs to generate money from somewhere. If Buckeye waits long enough, they should come out okay in this deal.

posted by MoreThanRhetoric on Jan 03, 2013 at 06:59:59 pm     #  

There was a commercial on Cable that said Fox lost/laid off 60 some jobs because of their decision. My wife and I only saw it once. Did anyone else? That seemed really high.

posted by Molsonator on Jan 03, 2013 at 07:13:19 pm     #  

Molsonator posted at 06:13:19 PM on Jan 03, 2013:

There was a commercial on Cable that said Fox lost/laid off 60 some jobs because of their decision. My wife and I only saw it once. Did anyone else? That seemed really high.

I also saw that. It didn't say that Fox specifically lost that many jobs, just that 60 jobs were lost.

posted by slowsol on Jan 03, 2013 at 07:29:29 pm     #  

Holland,

I have complained about the full page ad in the Blade every other day to Buckeye. They tell me the ad is "free". I do not believe them one bit. Neither side moves me to compassion.

This conflict reminds me of two year olds who cannot play nice in the sandbox. It is ridiculous and needs to be worked out.

People in our neighborhood have dropped the dish because of the many trees. So our only option is Buckeye. Damn.

posted by jackie on Jan 03, 2013 at 07:31:22 pm     #  

Sorry to hear that jackie. If you watch COPS, the last episode was pretty poor - and no Toledo cops. You haven't missed much.

posted by holland on Jan 03, 2013 at 07:51:26 pm     #  

holland posted at 12:55:41 AM on Dec 13, 2012:

http://www.google.com/tv/

I'm just biding my time.

ok, this is blowing my mind. You buy the box, then never pay another thing? I pay more than that per month for Time-Warner!! I need to read up on this. I don't watch TV so I'll need to sell this to The Hub, but I might be able to if it's not too confusing.

posted by nana on Jan 03, 2013 at 11:32:29 pm     #  

Ok, never mind, I started reading the description in the wrong place, you still need a cable or sat provider. I could still use someone simplifying the explanation for me. :)

posted by nana on Jan 03, 2013 at 11:34:47 pm     #  

This conflict reminds me of two year olds who cannot play nice in the sandbox.

Ain't that that truth.
Gimme!
NO! Mine!
GIMME!
NO! Mine, *&@%^ you!
Oh! I'm gonna tell.
::smack::
WHAAAAHHHH!

People in our neighborhood have dropped the dish because of the many trees.

Given Toledo, I'm surprised there are any trees left. It's even that way in Sylvania, so named for the word sylvan. Probably soon to be changed to sawdust or something.

posted by madjack on Jan 03, 2013 at 11:41:40 pm     #  

I'm no fan of the Block properties, but I can sympathize with their position. If someone wanted me to pay 50% more than market value for something, I would be fairly crabby about it. That is basically what WUPW is attempting with this mess. Unfortunately for Buckeye, customers don't care if they are right or wrong because they want to watch their shows. As subscribers to cable, those customers should actually be grateful because higher retransmission fees will just be passed along.

All of this makes me glad that I have been using over-the-air broadcast for more than 2 years.

posted by MoreThanRhetoric on Jan 04, 2013 at 12:22:50 am     #  

I called last Sunday to see if any progress had been made. The rep was not helpful, could not offer any time frame for resolution and advised I should just pick up FOX over a local antenna if I had a digital TV. I told them I thought that is what I paid them every month for.
So it continues and another bar tab for NFL Sundays.

posted by Hoops on Jan 04, 2013 at 08:50:02 am     #