Toledo Talk

Gun Show This Weekend

For all who haven't heard, the Maumee Valley Gun Collectors Association is having a gun show at the Lucas County Recreation Center (2901 Key Street, Maumee, OH).

Dates: January 19th and 20th, 2013
Hours
Saturday 8:30 - 4:00
Sunday 8:30 - 3:00

created by madjack on Jan 18, 2013 at 01:06:27 pm     Politics     Comments: 188

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Comments ... #

I'll bet it will be a jam packed madhouse.

posted by Foodie on Jan 18, 2013 at 01:55:03 pm     #  

I see where prices on so-called assault guns are insanely pricey. I thought I overpaid on a Colt pre-ban years ago... now maybe not.

posted by pete on Jan 18, 2013 at 02:12:06 pm     #  

Good time to sell!

posted by upso on Jan 18, 2013 at 02:49:30 pm     #  

Wonder if any dealer will have small pistol primers?

posted by Erin on Jan 18, 2013 at 06:46:07 pm     #  

Stopped at Gander Mountain last evening just to see what the shelves looked like. They are usually pricey as is but I just was curious. I think their Glock 19 magazines were almost $40 per and they were sold out. You get three magazines when you purchase a new Glock which can usually be had for $550 range. If I were looking for magazines I would have a hard time not just purchasing an extra gun, getting my magazines and having a new pistol to boot. It's pretty crazy right now - my internet sources have been dry for months. Fortunately, I did stock up about 3 months ago.

posted by Danneskjold on Jan 18, 2013 at 08:07:40 pm     #  

Should have clarified above - I was referring to stocking up on ammunition which I also was looking at when I was at Gander. They had very little defense ammunition and none of the higher quality performers.

posted by Danneskjold on Jan 18, 2013 at 08:09:36 pm     #  

Erin, bass pro had a couple hundred small pistol primers on the shelf Tuesday night.

posted by jhop on Jan 18, 2013 at 10:48:35 pm     #  

Thanks jhop. I may run down there tomorrow.

posted by Erin on Jan 19, 2013 at 12:35:26 am     #  

The place was incredibly crowded this morning. I arrived in the vicinity around 8:30 and traffic was gridlocked. I finally got parked and got in line where I waited 20 minutes to get in, and by that time the line snaked out of sight. I estimated around 200 people waiting to get in.

Inside it was elbow to elbow all over. Gun prices are up, as are ammo prices. I only saw one pistol I was tempted to buy - a 1911 that was assembled from spare parts by a gunsmith that was closing his shop and selling off everything. The trigger pull was nice and the barrel and bushing looked very solid. The price was $500. I was tempted to offer $450, but I've already got a 1911 that I enjoy shooting.

Black, scary assault rifles were in high demand. I counted a dozen men walking around with AR-15 rifles for sale - and since that would be a private sale no back ground check is needed.

Suck on that one, SensorG.

There were high capacity magazines available for almost anything, although ammunition was a little scarce.

Anyway, it's a good show. I left a little early because of the crowd.

posted by madjack on Jan 19, 2013 at 12:42:53 pm     #   3 people liked this

I'm glad you had a good time gollum.

posted by SensorG on Jan 19, 2013 at 01:25:59 pm     #   9 people liked this

Maddie said: Black, scary assault rifles were in high demand.

As they should be, since after the latest Liberal-caused school massacre, every card-carrying Liberal out there stated quite clearly he was coming to take our guns, constitution or not.

Liberals are great gun salesmen. Every time they open their mouths to make one of their pointless points, we go out and buy even more guns. 310 million guns (CNN, 2012) in 58 million households. Liberals are just making it worse for themselves by their own definitions, so they are really like children in their minds... so it strikes me that it's just too bad that more Liberals don't die in school massacres. Having adults walking around with the minds of children is the ultimate danger to our Republic.

posted by GuestZero on Jan 19, 2013 at 04:11:11 pm     #  

"Having adults walking around with the minds of children is the ultimate danger to our Republic."

I can't agree more. Please do the republic a service and stay in your house.

posted by Sohio on Jan 19, 2013 at 04:31:08 pm     #   7 people liked this

"Liberals are just making it worse for themselves by their own definitions, so they are really like children in their minds... so it strikes me that it's just too bad that more Liberals don't die in school massacres. Having adults walking around with the minds of children is the ultimate danger to our Republic."

posted by Ace_Face on Jan 19, 2013 at 04:58:20 pm     #   1 person liked this

Sohio posted at 03:31:08 PM on Jan 19, 2013:

"Having adults walking around with the minds of children is the ultimate danger to our Republic."

I can't agree more. Please do the republic a service and stay in your house.

posted by anonymouscoward on Jan 19, 2013 at 06:15:17 pm     #   3 people liked this

"[...] it's just too bad that more Liberals don't die in school massacres." -- GuestZero, Jan 19, 2013 at 03:11:11 pm

posted by anonymouscoward on Jan 19, 2013 at 06:22:22 pm     #   4 people liked this

I'm headed out to see a play, but earlier I placed a bet with myself and I want to collect.

12 to 7 this thread ends up in the Siberia section. I put $5 to win.

5 to 1 that SensorG would post an inflammatory one liner. I put down a sawbuck.

Personal to SensorG: Fuck you!

posted by madjack on Jan 19, 2013 at 07:13:42 pm     #   2 people liked this

Wow MJ you just can't me out of your head can you?

GZ - can you even legally carry a gun in Ohio or pass a back ground check to buy new ones?

posted by SensorG on Jan 19, 2013 at 09:31:43 pm     #  

Man, Gun Appreciation Day went off with a BANG!

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/19/16603029-5-accidentally-shot-at-gun-shows-in-north-carolina-ohio-indiana?lite

Five people ACCIDENTALLY shot by all these RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNERS, BUYERS, AND SELLERS.

posted by anonymouscoward on Jan 19, 2013 at 11:27:51 pm     #   3 people liked this

What should happen to Mr. Gary Lynn Wilson? He allegedly, according to the article, brought a loaded weapon in to a gun show. Is a domestic terrorist? Should he be prosecuted to the full extent of the law? Here is a question: is he guilty of a "gun crime?" and whether he is or isn't, should individuals whom are convicted of gun crimes, (think scary black gang banger) be afforded their constitutional right to carry? Any infringement, you know, is against what the framers intended.
And as far as the morons involved in these instances - should they really be allowed to carry a gun in to my school/church/grocery store? Hell no!

posted by Progress22 on Jan 19, 2013 at 11:39:21 pm     #  

SensorG posted at 08:31:43 PM on Jan 19, 2013:

Wow MJ you just can't me out of your head can you?

GZ - can you even legally carry a gun in Ohio or pass a back ground check to buy new ones?

I can, but then you waste bandwidth and distract me with your moronic ideas about freedom.

Fuck you, SensorG. And I fucking mean that, you no good piece of dog shit.

Apologies to any dogs or dog owners that I may have offended.

posted by madjack on Jan 20, 2013 at 12:17:42 am     #   1 person liked this

Five people ACCIDENTALLY shot by all these RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNERS, BUYERS, AND SELLERS.

Tell me AC, how many people were injured in auto accidents today? What should happen to the perpetrators? What, in reality, actually does happen to the perpetrators?

posted by madjack on Jan 20, 2013 at 12:20:21 am     #  

anonymouscoward posted at 10:27:51 PM on Jan 19, 2013:

Man, Gun Appreciation Day went off with a BANG!

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/19/16603029-5-accidentally-shot-at-gun-shows-in-north-carolina-ohio-indiana?lite

Five people ACCIDENTALLY shot by all these RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNERS, BUYERS, AND SELLERS.

Nothing like the gun control nuts getting all giddy over the news of people accidentally being shot at gun shows. Almost like they were just wishing for it to happen...all while still trying to claim the moral high ground.

There is one thing I am curious about though, how many people do you think were shot/murdered in the gun control paradise of Chicago during the same time frame? 15? 20? 25?

posted by RBancroft on Jan 20, 2013 at 12:25:10 am     #   1 person liked this

Progress22 posted at 10:39:21 PM on Jan 19, 2013:

What should happen to Mr. Gary Lynn Wilson? He allegedly, according to the article, brought a loaded weapon in to a gun show. Is a domestic terrorist? Should he be prosecuted to the full extent of the law? Here is a question: is he guilty of a "gun crime?" and whether he is or isn't, should individuals whom are convicted of gun crimes, (think scary black gang banger) be afforded their constitutional right to carry? Any infringement, you know, is against what the framers intended.
And as far as the morons involved in these instances - should they really be allowed to carry a gun in to my school/church/grocery store? Hell no!

What are the Five Fucking Rules of Firearm Saftey?

1) The fucking gun is ALWAYS loaded and functional, even if someone says they unloaded it, even if you are alone in a sealed room with it and verified it is completely unloaded, because you never know if the Bullet Fairy will magically load it the moment you blink. (Always treat the gun as if it is loaded!)

2) Don't point your fucking gun at anything you don't want to put a hole in! (Always point the gun in a safe direction.)

3) Keep your fucking booger-hook off the fucking bang switch until you are going to fire! (Do NOT put your finger on the trigger until you are ready to shoot!)

4) Keep the fucking bullets out of and away from the fucking gun until it is ready for use! (Don't load the gun until you are ready to fire.) EXCEPTION: Personal protection ONLY, with the SAFETY ON.

5) Don't pull the fucking bang switch until and unless you are fucking sure of the fucking target and what the fuck is behind the target! (Don't pull the trigger unless you've verified the target and what you could hit behind and beyond the target if you miss or the bullet penetrates through the target.)

No, these guys aren't guilty of a crime, because stupidity is not a crime. However, I'd be looking to slap them with some kind of reckless endangerment/endangering the public misdemeanor, you know, the kind where you get 6 months and community service and a nice big fine, plus a civil suit by the people who were shot.

posted by anonymouscoward on Jan 20, 2013 at 12:42:28 am     #   1 person liked this

Are people injured in automobile accidents daily? Obviously yes. And some of those accidents are caused by folks using their vehicle recklessly (drunk, driving too fast, etc.). But we have decided as a society that the dangers and even deaths associated with cars are outweighed by their benefits. That the deaths from automobiles, while tragic, are the price we pay for the convenience and freedom they give us. If indeed banning guns because people get shot is as silly as banning cars because people die in auto accidents, then what you are really saying is that random mass killings like Newtown (and Aurora and Virginia Tech and Columbine and on and on) are unfortunate but the price we pay for our Second Amendment rights as they currently exist.

posted by Ace_Face on Jan 20, 2013 at 12:44:20 am     #  

"Tell me AC, how many people were injured in auto accidents today? What should happen to the perpetrators? What, in reality, actually does happen to the perpetrators?"

Well, the party at fault usually gets cited for whatever laws they broke, insurance gets paid out, and if it's a particularly big fuck-up, like DUI, vehicular manslaughter, driving without insurance, they TAKE YOUR RIGHT TO DRIVE AWAY OR EVEN TAKE YOUR CARS AWAY.

Also there's insurance payouts and all that fun too.
"Nothing like the gun control nuts getting all giddy over the news of people accidentally being shot at gun shows. Almost like they were just wishing for it to happen...all while still trying to claim the moral high ground."

Not giddy at all, just a mix of sarcasm and schadenfreude due to the fact that these were violations of the Five Fucking Rules of Fucking Firearm Safety happening right under the bright spotlight of intense media scrutiny when these guys should have been on best fucking behavior. I feel sorry for the victims but as for the perps... YA DUN GOOFED, DOOFUS! There should NOT have been accidents.

Oh, and YOU dun goofed, dumbass, because if you had a lick of sense, you wouldn't be attacking the "gun control nuts" as getting all giddy at people being accidentally shot at gun shows... you'd have condemned the fucking idiot owners for violating the Five Fucking Rules first thing.

posted by anonymouscoward on Jan 20, 2013 at 12:57:12 am     #   1 person liked this

then what you are really saying is that random mass killings like Newtown (and Aurora and Virginia Tech and Columbine and on and on) are unfortunate but the price we pay for our Second Amendment rights as they currently exist.

Haven't they been arguing that the mass killings are a good thing because its people exercising their 2nd amendment rights and killing liberals?

posted by SensorG on Jan 20, 2013 at 01:01:22 am     #   2 people liked this

The tide has turned.

http://www.pollingreport.com/guns.htm

posted by holland on Jan 20, 2013 at 01:15:55 am     #   1 person liked this

madjack posted at 11:20:21 PM on Jan 19, 2013:

Five people ACCIDENTALLY shot by all these RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNERS, BUYERS, AND SELLERS.

Tell me AC, how many people were injured in auto accidents today? What should happen to the perpetrators? What, in reality, actually does happen to the perpetrators?

Under certain circumstances, you can be charged with vehicular assault or vehicular homicide.

posted by Sohio on Jan 20, 2013 at 01:31:07 am     #  

holland posted at 12:15:55 AM on Jan 20, 2013:

The tide has turned.

http://www.pollingreport.com/guns.htm

LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLIBERAL BIAS!

posted by anonymouscoward on Jan 20, 2013 at 01:47:02 am     #  

SensorG posted at 12:01:22 AM on Jan 20, 2013:

then what you are really saying is that random mass killings like Newtown (and Aurora and Virginia Tech and Columbine and on and on) are unfortunate but the price we pay for our Second Amendment rights as they currently exist.

Haven't they been arguing that the mass killings are a good thing because its people exercising their 2nd amendment rights and killing liberals?

Remember, every time a conservatard shoots a LLLLLLLLLLiberal, it's because the Second Amendment trumps the First. LLLLiberals don't have free speech rights and all that.

posted by anonymouscoward on Jan 20, 2013 at 01:48:58 am     #  

Thanks, Fark.com:

posted by anonymouscoward on Jan 20, 2013 at 02:02:50 am     #   1 person liked this

Did you edit that yourself AC or did you find a 5th grader to do it? Are you going to have a photo op with children anytime soon also?

posted by Linecrosser on Jan 20, 2013 at 07:02:20 am     #  

anonymouscoward posted at 11:42:28 PM on Jan 19, 2013:
Progress22 posted at 10:39:21 PM on Jan 19, 2013:

What should happen to Mr. Gary Lynn Wilson? He allegedly, according to the article, brought a loaded weapon in to a gun show. Is a domestic terrorist? Should he be prosecuted to the full extent of the law? Here is a question: is he guilty of a "gun crime?" and whether he is or isn't, should individuals whom are convicted of gun crimes, (think scary black gang banger) be afforded their constitutional right to carry? Any infringement, you know, is against what the framers intended.
And as far as the morons involved in these instances - should they really be allowed to carry a gun in to my school/church/grocery store? Hell no!

What are the Five Fucking Rules of Firearm Saftey?

1) The fucking gun is ALWAYS loaded and functional, even if someone says they unloaded it, even if you are alone in a sealed room with it and verified it is completely unloaded, because you never know if the Bullet Fairy will magically load it the moment you blink. (Always treat the gun as if it is loaded!)

2) Don't point your fucking gun at anything you don't want to put a hole in! (Always point the gun in a safe direction.)

3) Keep your fucking booger-hook off the fucking bang switch until you are going to fire! (Do NOT put your finger on the trigger until you are ready to shoot!)

4) Keep the fucking bullets out of and away from the fucking gun until it is ready for use! (Don't load the gun until you are ready to fire.) EXCEPTION: Personal protection ONLY, with the SAFETY ON.

5) Don't pull the fucking bang switch until and unless you are fucking sure of the fucking target and what the fuck is behind the target! (Don't pull the trigger unless you've verified the target and what you could hit behind and beyond the target if you miss or the bullet penetrates through the target.)

No, these guys aren't guilty of a crime, because stupidity is not a crime. However, I'd be looking to slap them with some kind of reckless endangerment/endangering the public misdemeanor, you know, the kind where you get 6 months and community service and a nice big fine, plus a civil suit by the people who were shot.

No argument from me.

You can't legislate common sense, but I am willing to prohibit gross negligience.

posted by justread on Jan 20, 2013 at 07:41:35 am     #  

"Five people ACCIDENTALLY shot by all these RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNERS, BUYERS, AND SELLERS."

When you say "shot by all these" are you saying that 57,999,995 did it? Or are you saying that the 5 idiots were not responsible gun owners. I would certainly agree that they are not. I can't imagine how that could be debated.

I would have expected the percentage of idiots among 58,000,000 people in any group to be much, much greater than .000000086

posted by justread on Jan 20, 2013 at 07:50:34 am     #  

holland posted at 12:15:55 AM on Jan 20, 2013:

The tide has turned.

http://www.pollingreport.com/guns.htm

Are you referring to the top line, the one relating to President Obama's proposed "laws" (many, with the exception of the renewal of the previously expired AW ban were just suggestions and recommendations, and ideas for studies)? That's my guess. That one slightly favors the President's proposed "laws." Perhaps it did not before and that is the tide in question.

The rest of the page seemed to suggest a different overall climate in regard to the issue. To aggregate the data simply would be to say that the country is 60-65% averse to blaming guns for things that people do, enacting more restrictive legislation, and the villification and criminalization of millions of responsible gun owners.

posted by justread on Jan 20, 2013 at 08:01:12 am     #  

Madjack: "Black, scary assault rifles were in high demand. I counted a dozen men walking around with AR-15 rifles for sale - and since that would be a private sale no back ground check is needed."

Did you happen to get a photo of a man with a JCPenney bag at a gun show surrounded by men with AR-15s? I'm looking for balance on the issue. :)

posted by justread on Jan 20, 2013 at 08:03:43 am     #  

SensorG: "Haven't they been arguing that the mass killings are a good thing because its people exercising their 2nd amendment rights and killing liberals?"

If you are willing to identify the person who said this by name, I am willing to give them a wedgie. Maybe even hang them on the back of the door.

posted by justread on Jan 20, 2013 at 08:06:37 am     #  

Mortality rates will naturally be lower when we restrict all activity in which someone is or could be injured. Let's go for it.
The next generation will be an incredibly safe and restricted population, absent both the dangers and freedoms of liberty.

posted by justread on Jan 20, 2013 at 08:20:59 am     #  

madjack posted at 11:42:53 AM on Jan 19, 2013:

The place was incredibly crowded this morning. I arrived in the vicinity around 8:30 and traffic was gridlocked. I finally got parked and got in line where I waited 20 minutes to get in, and by that time the line snaked out of sight. I estimated around 200 people waiting to get in.

Inside it was elbow to elbow all over. Gun prices are up, as are ammo prices. I only saw one pistol I was tempted to buy - a 1911 that was assembled from spare parts by a gunsmith that was closing his shop and selling off everything. The trigger pull was nice and the barrel and bushing looked very solid. The price was $500. I was tempted to offer $450, but I've already got a 1911 that I enjoy shooting.

Black, scary assault rifles were in high demand. I counted a dozen men walking around with AR-15 rifles for sale - and since that would be a private sale no back ground check is needed.

Suck on that one, SensorG.

There were high capacity magazines available for almost anything, although ammunition was a little scarce.

Anyway, it's a good show. I left a little early because of the crowd.

I almost played the 8:30 card but decided that I didn't want to go near it. Some people are scared of all gun owners. I am only scared of the huge wave of people who have just jumped in due to recent events. I figured that I would sit this one out. I really don't have any additional funds budgeted for guns right now anyway. Couple of property tax bills next week.

Instead I went to Shooters of Maumee with a buddy. There was a line at the door at 9:45. They opened early. (Well played)
Was able to get in and get my favorite lane, number 7. Heard a guy come in and say "I am here for the gun show" tee hee, poor fella.
Spent a couple of hours behind the safety of the rifle range divider (wink) and all was ok.

Around noon we had inhaled enough gunsmoke to be all done. It was an madhouse by then. Typically, one of us will watch the weapons after shooting while the other washes his hands, so I had a chance to look around the room. There must have been 75 people in there, a bunch of kids, and a large group (family reunion, perhaps?) with a big pile of pizza boxes and bags of soda pop. I have never watched the show, but I have seen Honey Boo Boo promos and I think that they Honey Boo Boo may have been there. I was a little less than enthused about the idea of so many people in there, and the whole pizza party aspect. Hell, maybe it was a concealed carry class. Who knows.

I decided that I would be more comfortable if it was a club rather than a walk-in kind of joint. I think that the market would support another location, easily.
Besides, if basketball courts keep inner city youth off the streets, more shooting ranges will keep (insert gun stereotype) off the street too.

To their credit, SOM seemed to have things under whatever control could be had all things considering, and that it was my personal comfort level. Not an incident witnessed. I did not see any particularly dangerous manuevers on the range, and there was a large number of staff and a range officer was in the range at all times. I was watched more than normal, so it was clear that everybody was. The staff was focused, present and involved.

posted by justread on Jan 20, 2013 at 08:42:29 am     #  

justread posted at 07:06:37 AM on Jan 20, 2013:

SensorG: "Haven't they been arguing that the mass killings are a good thing because its people exercising their 2nd amendment rights and killing liberals?"

If you are willing to identify the person who said this by name, I am willing to give them a wedgie. Maybe even hang them on the back of the door.

I was making a reference to the multiple times that GuestZero has made comments like he did in this thread...

GuestZero: " so it strikes me that it's just too bad that more Liberals don't die in school massacres."

posted by SensorG on Jan 20, 2013 at 09:15:16 am     #   2 people liked this

madjack posted at 11:20:21 PM on Jan 19, 2013:

Five people ACCIDENTALLY shot by all these RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNERS, BUYERS, AND SELLERS.

Tell me AC, how many people were injured in auto accidents today? What should happen to the perpetrators? What, in reality, actually does happen to the perpetrators?

If cars are so deadly, why do you need a gun to protect yourself? Use your car.

posted by researcher on Jan 20, 2013 at 09:15:56 am     #   1 person liked this

RBancroft posted at 11:25:10 PM on Jan 19, 2013:
anonymouscoward posted at 10:27:51 PM on Jan 19, 2013:

Man, Gun Appreciation Day went off with a BANG!

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/19/16603029-5-accidentally-shot-at-gun-shows-in-north-carolina-ohio-indiana?lite

Five people ACCIDENTALLY shot by all these RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNERS, BUYERS, AND SELLERS.

Nothing like the gun control nuts getting all giddy over the news of people accidentally being shot at gun shows. Almost like they were just wishing for it to happen...all while still trying to claim the moral high ground.

There is one thing I am curious about though, how many people do you think were shot/murdered in the gun control paradise of Chicago during the same time frame? 15? 20? 25?

The Chicago argument is pretty absurd. Chicago isn't a closed-off island.

posted by researcher on Jan 20, 2013 at 09:17:23 am     #  

That link that holland posted shows that 90%+ of Americans support background checks for ALL gun sales, including private sales and gun show sales. That's even higher than I would have expected. And yet, such a requirement won't be put into law. If that doesn't demonstrate that gun owners fear of the gub'ment taking away their gun is just overblown hysterics, I don't know what else will.

posted by Ace_Face on Jan 20, 2013 at 10:10:18 am     #  

Ace_Face posted at 09:10:18 AM on Jan 20, 2013:

That link that holland posted shows that 90%+ of Americans support background checks for ALL gun sales, including private sales and gun show sales. That's even higher than I would have expected. And yet, such a requirement won't be put into law. If that doesn't demonstrate that gun owners fear of the gub'ment taking away their gun is just overblown hysterics, I don't know what else will.

I agree Ace, it was higher than I expected as well. I think what was more surprising was there only being a 4% difference between Democrats and Republicans. The variance in most of the ideological questions was comfortably in double digits.

That being said, I must take issue with your last statement. The connection between favoring background checks and an overblown fear of the government taking away guns just doesn't make sense. As a gun owner, a background check will only affect me if I choose to purchase another gun. So even if background checks are instituted on all gun purchases going forward, gun owners have no reason to fear the government using said background checks to take away the guns they already own.

posted by RBancroft on Jan 20, 2013 at 11:49:24 am     #  

justread posted at 07:06:37 AM on Jan 20, 2013:

SensorG: "Haven't they been arguing that the mass killings are a good thing because its people exercising their 2nd amendment rights and killing liberals?"

If you are willing to identify the person who said this by name, I am willing to give them a wedgie. Maybe even hang them on the back of the door.

I look forward to GZ's wedgie.

posted by anonymouscoward on Jan 20, 2013 at 12:35:06 pm     #  

SensorG posted at 08:15:16 AM on Jan 20, 2013:
justread posted at 07:06:37 AM on Jan 20, 2013:

SensorG: "Haven't they been arguing that the mass killings are a good thing because its people exercising their 2nd amendment rights and killing liberals?"

If you are willing to identify the person who said this by name, I am willing to give them a wedgie. Maybe even hang them on the back of the door.

I was making a reference to the multiple times that GuestZero has made comments like he did in this thread...

GuestZero: " so it strikes me that it's just too bad that more Liberals don't die in school massacres."

Also, in he thread titled 'TPD and TPS----Get Your Armed Guards Out of the Schools!'; GZ said this:

'The only good thing about a potential shooting in a Toledo Public School is that it's highly likely some Liberals would die.'

posted by Sohio on Jan 20, 2013 at 12:47:52 pm     #   1 person liked this

What I mean is that a universal background check, which 90% of Americans support and is a relatively innocuous form of gun control, is unlikely to pass into law. So how likely is it that a form of gun control that a majority of Americans do NOT support (confiscation, universal registration, etc.) will pass? It simply won't happen.

To me, the whole gun debate is about scoring political points and making money. The NRA, Brady Center, gun manufacturers and the DailyKos know how exercised people get about guns and they stoke that anger and fear for their own gain.

posted by Ace_Face on Jan 20, 2013 at 12:49:06 pm     #  

I am often torn between urging jr to ban GZ or letting him stay and hoist himself by his own petard.

posted by Ace_Face on Jan 20, 2013 at 12:51:45 pm     #   3 people liked this

The NRA, Brady Center, gun manufacturers and the DailyKos know how exercised people get about guns and they stoke that anger and fear for their own gain.

If jr sold column and banner ads on the gun threads alone on this board, he could make some decent bank.

posted by oldhometown on Jan 20, 2013 at 01:10:53 pm     #  

anonymouscoward posted at 11:35:06 AM on Jan 20, 2013:
justread posted at 07:06:37 AM on Jan 20, 2013:

SensorG: "Haven't they been arguing that the mass killings are a good thing because its people exercising their 2nd amendment rights and killing liberals?"

If you are willing to identify the person who said this by name, I am willing to give them a wedgie. Maybe even hang them on the back of the door.

I look forward to GZ's wedgie.

Then let's stop saying "they" are starting saying "GZ."
Thanks. :)

posted by justread on Jan 20, 2013 at 01:38:48 pm     #  

Ace_Face posted at 11:51:45 AM on Jan 20, 2013:

I am often torn between urging jr to ban GZ or letting him stay and hoist himself by his own petard.

GZ posts in various forums and boards with a cople of different names. I can say he probably the least controversial, most accurate and least offensive here, which is saying a lot.

posted by SensorG on Jan 20, 2013 at 02:25:13 pm     #  

Trouble typing on the iPad today...

Cople= couple

Should be- I can say he is probably...

posted by SensorG on Jan 20, 2013 at 02:28:08 pm     #  

So you made a post to correct your mistakes that anyone with half a brain can read your intent. This unfortunately is the modern age where the youth no longer learn script or use proper English or grammar. I myself have been berated for improper usage or your, you're, there their, and frankly could give a damn. I see a lot of times a person with a legitimate complaint or question only to be harassed about their grammar rather than answering the question or replying on content. I guess it give the grammar police something to do in a age where they are becoming obsolete.

posted by Linecrosser on Jan 20, 2013 at 03:43:12 pm     #  

So you made a post to correct your mistakes that anyone with half a brain can read your intent.

I made the correction for those with less than half a brain.

posted by SensorG on Jan 20, 2013 at 04:12:24 pm     #  

SensorG posted at 01:25:13 PM on Jan 20, 2013:
Ace_Face posted at 11:51:45 AM on Jan 20, 2013:

I am often torn between urging jr to ban GZ or letting him stay and hoist himself by his own petard.

GZ posts in various forums and boards with a cople of different names. I can say he probably the least controversial, most accurate and least offensive here, which is saying a lot.

So he's actually a troll with lots of alts?

posted by anonymouscoward on Jan 20, 2013 at 04:14:38 pm     #  

No, didn't say that. I think GZ is only GZ here and on Swampbubbles, but goes by a couple of other names on other forums.

posted by SensorG on Jan 20, 2013 at 04:21:04 pm     #  

anonymouscoward posted at 03:14:38 PM on Jan 20, 2013:
SensorG posted at 01:25:13 PM on Jan 20, 2013:
Ace_Face posted at 11:51:45 AM on Jan 20, 2013:

I am often torn between urging jr to ban GZ or letting him stay and hoist himself by his own petard.

GZ posts in various forums and boards with a cople of different names. I can say he probably the least controversial, most accurate and least offensive here, which is saying a lot.

So he's actually a troll with lots of alts?

What name do you use on swamp bubbles? How about Facebook?

posted by Linecrosser on Jan 20, 2013 at 06:09:49 pm     #  

Linecrosser posted at 05:09:49 PM on Jan 20, 2013:
anonymouscoward posted at 03:14:38 PM on Jan 20, 2013:
SensorG posted at 01:25:13 PM on Jan 20, 2013:
Ace_Face posted at 11:51:45 AM on Jan 20, 2013:

I am often torn between urging jr to ban GZ or letting him stay and hoist himself by his own petard.

GZ posts in various forums and boards with a cople of different names. I can say he probably the least controversial, most accurate and least offensive here, which is saying a lot.

So he's actually a troll with lots of alts?

What name do you use on swamp bubbles? How about Facebook?

I don't have an account on SB. My Facebook page is God.

posted by anonymouscoward on Jan 20, 2013 at 06:20:12 pm     #  

Can't be God that would usurp Obama

posted by Linecrosser on Jan 20, 2013 at 06:48:45 pm     #  

Linecrosser posted at 02:43:12 PM on Jan 20, 2013:

So you made a post to correct your mistakes that anyone with half a brain can read your intent. This unfortunately is the modern age where the youth no longer learn script or use proper English or grammar. I myself have been berated for improper usage or your, you're, there their, and frankly could give a damn. I see a lot of times a person with a legitimate complaint or question only to be harassed about their grammar rather than answering the question or replying on content. I guess it give the grammar police something to do in a age where they are becoming obsolete.

The written language is becoming obsolete?

posted by researcher on Jan 20, 2013 at 06:57:25 pm     #  

Linecrosser posted at 05:48:45 PM on Jan 20, 2013:

Can't be God that would usurp Obama

Here we go with your obsession with Obama the great Socialist Muslim Usurper again.

Why don't you just outright call him a ni-BONG on here and get it over with?

posted by anonymouscoward on Jan 20, 2013 at 07:18:15 pm     #  

researcher posted at 05:57:25 PM on Jan 20, 2013:
Linecrosser posted at 02:43:12 PM on Jan 20, 2013:

So you made a post to correct your mistakes that anyone with half a brain can read your intent. This unfortunately is the modern age where the youth no longer learn script or use proper English or grammar. I myself have been berated for improper usage or your, you're, there their, and frankly could give a damn. I see a lot of times a person with a legitimate complaint or question only to be harassed about their grammar rather than answering the question or replying on content. I guess it give the grammar police something to do in a age where they are becoming obsolete.

The written language is becoming obsolete?

Teabaggers prefer to speak with bullet points.

posted by anonymouscoward on Jan 20, 2013 at 07:19:41 pm     #   2 people liked this

"I look forward to GZ's wedgie."

Apply the wedgie to the gun cabinet, not the shorts. There's probably not much much in the shorts, hence the need for a big gun cabinet.

posted by holland on Jan 20, 2013 at 08:10:55 pm     #  

holland posted at 07:10:55 PM on Jan 20, 2013:

"I look forward to GZ's wedgie."

Apply the wedgie to the gun cabinet, not the shorts. There's probably not much much in the shorts, hence the need for a big gun cabinet.

Aw come on, holland, there's a lot in those shorts. The thing is, it's in the back and not the front.

posted by anonymouscoward on Jan 20, 2013 at 08:38:25 pm     #   2 people liked this

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/01/20/santorum-armor-piercing-bullets-are-a-right-in-our-country/

Yeah, we need armor-piercing bullets! And then we need depleted uranium rounds for shooting tanks when the government comes for us in M1A2s

posted by anonymouscoward on Jan 20, 2013 at 09:04:57 pm     #  

anonymouscoward posted at 06:19:41 PM on Jan 20, 2013:
researcher posted at 05:57:25 PM on Jan 20, 2013:
Linecrosser posted at 02:43:12 PM on Jan 20, 2013:

So you made a post to correct your mistakes that anyone with half a brain can read your intent. This unfortunately is the modern age where the youth no longer learn script or use proper English or grammar. I myself have been berated for improper usage or your, you're, there their, and frankly could give a damn. I see a lot of times a person with a legitimate complaint or question only to be harassed about their grammar rather than answering the question or replying on content. I guess it give the grammar police something to do in a age where they are becoming obsolete.

The written language is becoming obsolete?

Teabaggers prefer to speak with bullet points.

Said the man with a bullet point. Did you get that from your liberal friends?

posted by Linecrosser on Jan 20, 2013 at 10:17:14 pm     #  

From AC: Well, the party at fault usually gets cited for whatever laws they broke, insurance gets paid out, and if it's a particularly big fuck-up, like DUI, vehicular manslaughter, driving without insurance, they TAKE YOUR RIGHT TO DRIVE AWAY OR EVEN TAKE YOUR CARS AWAY.

There is no 'right to drive' AC.

posted by madjack on Jan 20, 2013 at 11:38:14 pm     #  

anonymouscoward posted at 07:38:25 PM on Jan 20, 2013:
holland posted at 07:10:55 PM on Jan 20, 2013:

"I look forward to GZ's wedgie."

Apply the wedgie to the gun cabinet, not the shorts. There's probably not much much in the shorts, hence the need for a big gun cabinet.

Aw come on, holland, there's a lot in those shorts. The thing is, it's in the back and not the front.

Having met GuestZero in person along with a few of his current detractors, I can safely say that none of you are going to give him anything unless he chooses to tolerate it.

posted by madjack on Jan 20, 2013 at 11:41:38 pm     #  

You know, this thread has really gone downhill. Reading it reminds me of a coon in the hen house at the usual time - o-dark-thirty.

posted by madjack on Jan 20, 2013 at 11:43:06 pm     #  

madjack posted at 10:38:14 PM on Jan 20, 2013:

From AC: Well, the party at fault usually gets cited for whatever laws they broke, insurance gets paid out, and if it's a particularly big fuck-up, like DUI, vehicular manslaughter, driving without insurance, they TAKE YOUR RIGHT TO DRIVE AWAY OR EVEN TAKE YOUR CARS AWAY.

There is no 'right to drive' AC.

If you really want to keep down the "there's no right to drive but there is a right to keep and bear arms" route, then I once again point out that the HOLY SECOND AMENDMENT does not say "firearms", it just says "arms", and "arms" as of 1787 wasn't just "firearms" either, that included swords and bows, and that since we have a "Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty" that regulates the number of nukes we can have, you lost the argument that the government can't keep certain weapons out of the hands of government long ago.

posted by anonymouscoward on Jan 20, 2013 at 11:46:55 pm     #  

SensorG asked: GZ - can you even legally carry a gun in Ohio or pass a back ground check to buy new ones?

Yes, of course. Holding political opinions that drive Liberals into screaming rages is not yet defined as a problem in any sort of background check... not that a BGC involves review of my political opinions.

I've never had a problem with obtaining weapons, as evidenced by the handful that I do own. After all, I'm not a social problem in the first place. The Liberals are. That was always my point. Really, that's reality's point.

At any rate, the legal ability to carry a gun in Ohio is very easy to obtain. The Ohio constitution states quite clearly that it can't stop you from doing it; therefore anyone can carry. And that reveals another problem that Liberals have: The ability to read and understand constitutions. Particularly certain amendments. Specifically any part of the English used therein that says people have the right to keep and bear arms. For some reason, that all turns into gobbledygook to a Liberal, like Matrix code.

posted by GuestZero on Jan 21, 2013 at 03:49:37 pm     #  

Maddie said: You know, this thread has really gone downhill.

Had I known people would be showing interest in the contents of my pants, I'd have returned earlier. How do I post pictures here? LOL!

At any rate, reality continues to plod onward, and we still have the right to keep and bear arms, which in Ohio is secured by two constitutions. This drives Liberals into wrathful rages or simmering silences, alternately. I wonder if that sort of thing brings on stress-related illnesses? It might be a race between school shootings and stress illnesses, as to which better shortens Liberal lifespans. Ironically, both are caused or otherwise enabled by Liberals. They are truly their worst enemies.

posted by GuestZero on Jan 21, 2013 at 04:02:19 pm     #  

GZ said: "blah blah LLLLLLIBERALS! blah"

Hey GZ, those two constitutions say "arms" not "guns", so again I ask where are the rights of the people to possess nerve gas and anthrax and nukes?

posted by anonymouscoward on Jan 21, 2013 at 04:05:18 pm     #  

posted by SensorG on Jan 21, 2013 at 04:25:06 pm     #   2 people liked this

anonymouscoward posted at 03:05:18 PM on Jan 21, 2013:

GZ said: "blah blah LLLLLLIBERALS! blah"

Hey GZ, those two constitutions say "arms" not "guns", so again I ask where are the rights of the people to possess nerve gas and anthrax and nukes?

Chemical and Biological weapons have been banned for years.

posted by Linecrosser on Jan 21, 2013 at 08:36:52 pm     #  

Linecrosser posted at 07:36:52 PM on Jan 21, 2013:
anonymouscoward posted at 03:05:18 PM on Jan 21, 2013:

GZ said: "blah blah LLLLLLIBERALS! blah"

Hey GZ, those two constitutions say "arms" not "guns", so again I ask where are the rights of the people to possess nerve gas and anthrax and nukes?

Chemical and Biological weapons have been banned for years.

Which is UNCONSTITUTIONAL!

Or are you admitting that you have no problem with the banning of certain arms, and thereby conceding that the government does in fact have the power to regulate "arms", which include FIREarms?

posted by anonymouscoward on Jan 22, 2013 at 12:58:11 am     #  

Ah HAH!

Chemical and biological weapons are EXACTLY in every way like a gun, and certainly in the mind of the 1787 gentleman farmer.

He got you on that one, Liney.

posted by justread on Jan 22, 2013 at 06:48:43 am     #  

GuestZero posted at 02:49:37 PM on Jan 21, 2013:

SensorG asked: GZ - can you even legally carry a gun in Ohio or pass a back ground check to buy new ones?

Yes, of course. Holding political opinions that drive Liberals into screaming rages is not yet defined as a problem in any sort of background check... not that a BGC involves review of my political opinions.

I've never had a problem with obtaining weapons, as evidenced by the handful that I do own. After all, I'm not a social problem in the first place. The Liberals are. That was always my point. Really, that's reality's point.

At any rate, the legal ability to carry a gun in Ohio is very easy to obtain. The Ohio constitution states quite clearly that it can't stop you from doing it; therefore anyone can carry. And that reveals another problem that Liberals have: The ability to read and understand constitutions. Particularly certain amendments. Specifically any part of the English used therein that says people have the right to keep and bear arms. For some reason, that all turns into gobbledygook to a Liberal, like Matrix code.

GZ:

You mean...LIBERALS, like the ones in Arizona, present at the Giffords shooting, who were prevented from bearing arms by some of the nation's most relaxed concealed carry laws?

THOSE liberals?

I'm not letting you off the hook on that one, GZ. I want to hear YOU say it.

posted by Sohio on Jan 22, 2013 at 07:37:46 am     #  

madjack posted at 10:41:38 PM on Jan 20, 2013:
anonymouscoward posted at 07:38:25 PM on Jan 20, 2013:
holland posted at 07:10:55 PM on Jan 20, 2013:

"I look forward to GZ's wedgie."

Apply the wedgie to the gun cabinet, not the shorts. There's probably not much much in the shorts, hence the need for a big gun cabinet.

Aw come on, holland, there's a lot in those shorts. The thing is, it's in the back and not the front.

Having met GuestZero in person along with a few of his current detractors, I can safely say that none of you are going to give him anything unless he chooses to tolerate it.

You give yourself too much credit.

posted by researcher on Jan 22, 2013 at 09:17:20 am     #  

Does anything think GuestZero has really driven anybody into a "screaming" or "wrathful" rage concerning politics?

The internet can truly distort reality.

posted by researcher on Jan 22, 2013 at 09:21:23 am     #  

I waffle back and forth between feeling sad for GZ and laughing at GZ.

posted by SensorG on Jan 22, 2013 at 09:29:16 am     #  

From Researcher: You give yourself too much credit.

The hell I do.

posted by madjack on Jan 22, 2013 at 10:10:11 am     #   1 person liked this

madjack posted at 09:10:11 AM on Jan 22, 2013:

From Researcher: You give yourself too much credit.

The hell I do.

Good man.

posted by researcher on Jan 22, 2013 at 11:52:21 am     #   1 person liked this

Back to the issue, I was at the show both days, and the attendance was super! Doesn't look to me like the so-called public wants more gun control.

posted by Wulf on Jan 22, 2013 at 01:27:44 pm     #  

Wulf posted at 12:27:44 PM on Jan 22, 2013:

Back to the issue, I was at the show both days, and the attendance was super! Doesn't look to me like the so-called public wants more gun control.

One of the top three dumbest statements of the thread.

posted by SensorG on Jan 22, 2013 at 01:44:30 pm     #  

I went to a University of Michigan foot game in A2 and attendance was super! Doesn’t look like the so-called public likes Ohio State.

posted by SensorG on Jan 22, 2013 at 01:51:29 pm     #  

"so-called public"

posted by researcher on Jan 22, 2013 at 02:25:12 pm     #  

SensorG posted at 12:51:29 PM on Jan 22, 2013:

I went to a University of Michigan foot game in A2 and attendance was super! Doesn’t look like the so-called public likes Ohio State.

Who are you taking to the senior prom?

posted by madjack on Jan 22, 2013 at 03:42:14 pm     #  

Wulf posted at 12:27:44 PM on Jan 22, 2013:

Back to the issue, I was at the show both days, and the attendance was super! Doesn't look to me like the so-called public wants more gun control.

The same thought occurred to me. The Ayatollah Obama and His elite cadre of legislative storm troopers want more control. Gun control is only one aspect.

Two things I noted at the gun show were people who clearly did not know what they were looking at, but felt they had to buy one or more guns while they still had the chance, and the other was the skyrocketing prices of modern firearms, particularly auto-loaders.

I didn't attend the second day, and probably should have. If the 1911 was still for sale I likely would have bought it.

posted by madjack on Jan 22, 2013 at 03:47:49 pm     #  

"The Ayatollah Obama and His elite cadre of legislative storm troopers want more control. Gun control is only one aspect."

Indeed. I'm worried about that wacko Michelle Obama and her militant views against salt, which could lead to draconian salt control measures. At the next salt show, I should boost my coarse sea salt supplies in various flavors, colors, and styles. This mini gravelly treat is one of my favorite kitchen tools. Ban salt, and I'll have to use guns to defend my stash from the chefs.

So it's all connected. Take away our guns, and then we cannot defend our salt supplies. Then MO will come after our olive oil, butter, and eggs. It's the health Nazis war against making tasty food. Their misinformation agency dupes the public into thinking salt along with fats, protein, and carbs from natural sources are bad.

To summarize: Buy a bullet for a good food.

posted by jr on Jan 22, 2013 at 06:04:03 pm     #   3 people liked this

jr

Love your article. It tickles me a lot.

I know the gun show was crowded - my husband went. But I'll bet you there were a hell of a lot more people home than there. Most of us aren't worried about stock piling ammo and buying guns instead of butter.

posted by jackie on Jan 22, 2013 at 06:18:22 pm     #  

"I went to a University of Michigan foot game in A2 and attendance was super! Doesn’t look like the so-called public likes Ohio State.

! posted by SensorG on Jan 22, 2013 at 12:51:29 pm # + "

The number one stupid post on this thread

posted by Wulf on Jan 22, 2013 at 06:25:10 pm     #   1 person liked this

jr posted at 05:04:03 PM on Jan 22, 2013:

"The Ayatollah Obama and His elite cadre of legislative storm troopers want more control. Gun control is only one aspect."

Indeed. I'm worried about that wacko Michelle Obama and her militant views against salt, which could lead to draconian salt control measures. At the next salt show, I should boost my coarse sea salt supplies in various flavors, colors, and styles. This mini gravelly treat is one of my favorite kitchen tools. Ban salt, and I'll have to use guns to defend my stash from the chefs.

So it's all connected. Take away our guns, and then we cannot defend our salt supplies. Then MO will come after our olive oil, butter, and eggs. It's the health Nazis war against making tasty food. Their misinformation agency dupes the public into thinking salt along with fats, protein, and carbs from natural sources are bad.

To summarize: Buy a bullet for a good food.

Desalinizationism should have a voice at the table.

posted by justread on Jan 22, 2013 at 06:52:24 pm     #  

3 years ago - no guns in the household. No understanding of guns. Fear/distrust and about the only thing we knew was through the media.

Today - Proud, responsible gun owners. Both my wife and I exercise our carry conceal privilege and are proud members of the NRA. We have NO intention of giving the right to protect ourselves period!

Why - A government is far less likely to attempt to tyrannize it's people when those people are armed to the teeth!
Why II - About the only person in this country who truly does have people protecting him 24/7 is the President. The rest of us our on our own and I will not be a victim.

posted by Danneskjold on Jan 22, 2013 at 10:02:52 pm     #   5 people liked this

I know the gun show was crowded - my husband went. But I'll bet you there were a hell of a lot more people home than there. Most of us aren't worried about stock piling ammo and buying guns instead of butter.

That's one thing that cracks me up about gun nuts: they often say that they are concerned about "safety" or "protecting their family." So they spend small fortunes and inordinate amounts of time preparing for unlikely situations like civil unrest, massive and persistent power failures and home invasions instead of preparing for much more likely (but less dramatic) perils that can face a family. I know stocking a rainy day fund in case you or you spouse lose a job isn't as much fun as shooting off an AR-15, but it is more probable than having to fend off an armed intruder.

posted by Ace_Face on Jan 22, 2013 at 10:10:44 pm     #   1 person liked this

Danneskjold posted at 09:02:52 PM on Jan 22, 2013:

3 years ago - no guns in the household. No understanding of guns. Fear/distrust and about the only thing we knew was through the media.

Today - Proud, responsible gun owners. Both my wife and I exercise our carry conceal privilege and are proud members of the NRA. We have NO intention of giving the right to protect ourselves period!

Why - A government is far less likely to attempt to tyrannize it's people when those people are armed to the teeth!
Why II - About the only person in this country who truly does have people protecting him 24/7 is the President. The rest of us our on our own and I will not be a victim.

And there are no rich people in America who have armed security and a perimeter around their mansions that rivals or beats that of the President?

One of the oil bigwigs got his former employer to pay for his security for several years in his golden parachute package.

Good to know you think having 100 round magazines in your AR-15 will stop a government with NBCI weapons. What the fuck you gonna do when they release the superflu or super-ebola or whatever they got that they have a vaccine for and you don't?

posted by anonymouscoward on Jan 23, 2013 at 12:31:31 am     #  

Why - A government is far less likely to attempt to tyrannize it's people when those people are armed to the teeth!

Just say “Islamic Fascist” and people can’t go to war or give up their rights fast enough. As for the US government being scared of you? A drone strike would vaporize you and your house faster than you can say “Don’t Tread On Me”.

posted by SensorG on Jan 23, 2013 at 09:34:47 am     #   1 person liked this

The gun show was full of people too fat, lazy, stupid, or incompetent to defend themselves against a tyrannical government.

posted by researcher on Jan 23, 2013 at 10:02:35 am     #  

The gun show was full of people too fat, lazy, stupid, or incompetent to defend themselves against a tyrannical government.

You were there?

posted by oldhometown on Jan 23, 2013 at 12:11:58 pm     #   4 people liked this

AC keeps whining and not learning: I ask where are the rights of the people to possess nerve gas and anthrax and nukes

The Second Amendment has been soundly interpreted from its own text to govern arms in the hands of the common field soldier. That means club, garrote, knife, machete, pistol, shotgun, rifle, etc... and yes even swords, spears and bows. My only contention with current practices is that grenades and other such personal explosive weapons should also be covered by the Second Amendment... since they too serve the field soldier in his capacity in the militia.

The Second Amendment assumes that we will act like soldiers, regardless if we actually do. Liberals largely refuse to be soldiers, and that particular mental illness drives them to assume that the rest of us should refuse too.

posted by GuestZero on Jan 23, 2013 at 12:16:32 pm     #   2 people liked this

The gun show was full of people who will never use their gun to defend themselves or their families.

posted by researcher on Jan 23, 2013 at 12:16:51 pm     #  

GuestZero rejects the idea of a living document, or Living Constitution, and therefore any sort of judicial interpretation.

posted by researcher on Jan 23, 2013 at 12:18:16 pm     #  

2013 is actually 1787.

posted by researcher on Jan 23, 2013 at 12:18:44 pm     #  

62-Year-Old With Gun Only One Standing Between Nation And Full-Scale Government Takeover

http://www.theonion.com/articles/62yearold-with-gun-only-one-standing-between-natio,30984/

posted by Ace_Face on Jan 23, 2013 at 12:19:41 pm     #  

From AC: And there are no rich people in America who have armed security and a perimeter around their mansions that rivals or beats that of the President?

Not unless you count a visit from Middle East royalty. The President of the United States travels in a tank disguised as a limousine. He's protected by the US Secret Service 24/7, and they are backed by the US Army. Security around the White House and the nation's capital building(s) has never been higher, not even during the Cuban missile crises.

No, AC. The wealthiest people in the United States don't have security that even comes close to the President.

posted by madjack on Jan 23, 2013 at 03:08:22 pm     #  

researcher posted at 11:16:51 AM on Jan 23, 2013:

The gun show was full of people who will never use their gun to defend themselves or their families.

Certainly everyone hopes so.

Everyone but the Moonbats, who are hoping for another mass murder scenario they can use to justify their stand on controlling and monitoring the population.

posted by madjack on Jan 23, 2013 at 03:10:23 pm     #  

madjack posted at 02:10:23 PM on Jan 23, 2013:
researcher posted at 11:16:51 AM on Jan 23, 2013:

The gun show was full of people who will never use their gun to defend themselves or their families.

Certainly everyone hopes so.

Everyone but the Moonbats, who are hoping for another mass murder scenario they can use to justify their stand on controlling and monitoring the population.

And now Maddie's with GZ in the "LLLLiberals are horrible people and they want people to die and more of them need to get killed" crowd.

posted by anonymouscoward on Jan 23, 2013 at 05:50:47 pm     #  

GuestZero posted at 11:16:32 AM on Jan 23, 2013:

AC keeps whining and not learning: I ask where are the rights of the people to possess nerve gas and anthrax and nukes

The Second Amendment has been soundly interpreted from its own text to govern arms in the hands of the common field soldier. That means club, garrote, knife, machete, pistol, shotgun, rifle, etc... and yes even swords, spears and bows. My only contention with current practices is that grenades and other such personal explosive weapons should also be covered by the Second Amendment... since they too serve the field soldier in his capacity in the militia.

The Second Amendment assumes that we will act like soldiers, regardless if we actually do. Liberals largely refuse to be soldiers, and that particular mental illness drives them to assume that the rest of us should refuse too.

So when technology improves and the "common field soldier" is issued laser rifles, railguns, and even the BFG9000, all those toys should be available to the average American as well?

The common field soldier is also beholden to the Geneva Conventions. Civilians, if I recall correctly, are not inasmuch as concerns fighting.

But hey, you just admitted that a) THE GOVERNMENT HAS THE POWER TO REGULATE FIREARMS and b) YOU ARE A CRAZY NUT WHO WANTS TO BE ARMED WITH GRENADES AND C4.

posted by anonymouscoward on Jan 23, 2013 at 05:57:10 pm     #  

AC, exaggerate much?

posted by Linecrosser on Jan 23, 2013 at 06:44:22 pm     #   1 person liked this

My daughter & son-in-law went to the gun show. First time for her. She came back convinced that a large number of the people attending needed a psych eval. I think her take was "bunch of paranoid whackos".

posted by holland on Jan 23, 2013 at 07:59:10 pm     #   3 people liked this

"... people attending needed a psych eval. I think her take was "bunch of paranoid whackos"."

What's wrong with paranoid wackos? All the great computer sys admins and network security specialists are paranoid wackos. That kind of personality trait is a requirement for those jobs.

I wonder what the general audience thinks of attendees at DEF CON or the hackers supporting Tor?

My favorite paranoid wacko programmer is Richard Stallman.

I refuse to have a cell phone because they are tracking and surveillance devices. They all enable the phone system to record where the user goes, and many (perhaps all) can be remotely converted into listening devices. When I need to call someone, I ask someone nearby to let me make a call.

I read and send mail with Emacs using M-x rmail and C-x m. I have no experience with any other email client programs.

I have several free web browsers on my laptop, but I generally do not look at web sites from my own machine, aside from a few sites operated for or by the GNU Project, FSF or me. I fetch web pages from other sites by sending mail to a program that fetches them, much like wget, and then mails them back to me. Then I look at them using a web browser, unless it is easy to see the text in the HTML page directly.

When I use a search engine, it is always from a machine that isn't mine and that other people also use. I never identify myself to the site, of course.

I reject Facebook and Google+ on principle because they require people to give their "real names". I am proud to identify myself when stating my views; I can afford to do that because I am in a fairly safe position. There are people who rationally fear reprisals (from employers, gangsters, bullies, or the state) if they state their views. For their sake, let's reject any social networking site which insists on being told a user's real name.

posted by jr on Jan 23, 2013 at 08:52:15 pm     #  

"My daughter & son-in-law went to the gun show. First time for her. She came back convinced that a large number of the people attending needed a psych eval. I think her take was "bunch of paranoid whackos"."

I saw the same crowd at the union rally.

posted by MikeyA on Jan 23, 2013 at 10:07:59 pm     #   1 person liked this

jr posted at 07:52:15 PM on Jan 23, 2013:

"... people attending needed a psych eval. I think her take was "bunch of paranoid whackos"."

What's wrong with paranoid wackos? All the great computer sys admins and network security specialists are paranoid wackos. That kind of personality trait is a requirement for those jobs.

I wonder what the general audience thinks of attendees at DEF CON or the hackers supporting Tor?

My favorite paranoid wacko programmer is Richard Stallman.

I refuse to have a cell phone because they are tracking and surveillance devices. They all enable the phone system to record where the user goes, and many (perhaps all) can be remotely converted into listening devices. When I need to call someone, I ask someone nearby to let me make a call.

I read and send mail with Emacs using M-x rmail and C-x m. I have no experience with any other email client programs.

I have several free web browsers on my laptop, but I generally do not look at web sites from my own machine, aside from a few sites operated for or by the GNU Project, FSF or me. I fetch web pages from other sites by sending mail to a program that fetches them, much like wget, and then mails them back to me. Then I look at them using a web browser, unless it is easy to see the text in the HTML page directly.

When I use a search engine, it is always from a machine that isn't mine and that other people also use. I never identify myself to the site, of course.

I reject Facebook and Google+ on principle because they require people to give their "real names". I am proud to identify myself when stating my views; I can afford to do that because I am in a fairly safe position. There are people who rationally fear reprisals (from employers, gangsters, bullies, or the state) if they state their views. For their sake, let's reject any social networking site which insists on being told a user's real name.

Then we have ESR, gun nut and increasing whackjob...

On the other hand, RMS and ESR have contributed to society. I'm not gonna claim their contributions counterbalance their whackadoodle-ness, but that's better than the average "I have two dozen assault rifles and 100,000 rounds tucked away in my bunker, come and take my guns, 0bongo HUSSEIN Barack!" nutjob.

posted by anonymouscoward on Jan 23, 2013 at 10:16:09 pm     #  

MikeyA posted at 09:07:59 PM on Jan 23, 2013:

"My daughter & son-in-law went to the gun show. First time for her. She came back convinced that a large number of the people attending needed a psych eval. I think her take was "bunch of paranoid whackos"."

I saw the same crowd at the union rally.

... then you looked away from the mirror...

posted by anonymouscoward on Jan 23, 2013 at 10:25:20 pm     #   1 person liked this

AC do you make those new kitchen gadget commercials? You know the ones that show tried and true and traditional ways of doings things to be the most inept and the people using them seem to be suffering from about 6 nerve related disorders?

posted by Linecrosser on Jan 24, 2013 at 12:41:33 am     #  

My daughter was quite impressed with the gentleman who walking though the crowd and selling Nazi flags. She (and companion) chatted up a gun dealer who firmly believed that the government had a secret plan already in place to confiscate everybnodys guns.

jr there is a defference between paranoia and risk assesment. Smart people are able to look at an issue,see where the threats are and plan accordingly. Paranoid people see threats where there arent any.

posted by holland on Jan 24, 2013 at 12:54:22 pm     #   4 people liked this

How many flags did she get?

posted by Wulf on Jan 24, 2013 at 05:04:53 pm     #   2 people liked this

"jr there is a defference between paranoia and risk assesment. Smart people are able to look at an issue,see where the threats are and plan accordingly. Paranoid people see threats where there arent any."

But if you wait until the threat is obvious, maybe it's too late to act. The smart person might be able to imagine something that could happen in the future.

So is this person's thinking smart, paranoid, or stupid?

I refuse to have a cell phone because they are tracking and surveillance devices.

Don't use Facebook. Facebook permanently records everything you do, even what you look at, even items that are "deleted". And presumably gives them to the CIA. A timeline shows how Facebook has increasingly shown contempt for privacy.

How many Facebook users feel threatened by Facebook?

How would you describe the Electronic Frontier Foundation when it writes about our government's "secret" surveillance activities within the U.S., which includes things like:

  • Cell Phone Data Requests
  • Stingray Interceptors
  • License Plate Readers
  • Drone Authorization

The EFF sounds a bit paranoid. These programs are for our safety, so why the concern? We should accept the fact that we have to surrender some privacy for security.

Facebook encourages sharing openly and not being private. We'll get used to being transparent, which means we'll be more accepting to less privacy in the future if we're told that we'll be safer.

The increasing number of traffic cameras and other security cameras managed by the government are obviously designed to improve our safety. Who would oppose safety? And these programs help us accept less privacy in the future. Since no real threat exists with these cameras now, then linking these activities to some kind of future Big Brother program is paranoid thinking.

Gun talk is a brilliant public distraction for the government.

The U.S. federal government is the largest employer in the U.S. If only a small fraction of those employees would be considered smart, it's still a large enough number for them to invent a "threat" for tomorrow that maybe nobody else has imagined today.

posted by jr on Jan 24, 2013 at 06:40:47 pm     #   1 person liked this

So, I should get a bug out bunker and an AK 47 with a big clip?

BTW my son works for the DOD. High security clearance. I really don't know what he actually does. But he is an American like the rest of us. Not the enemy.

posted by holland on Jan 24, 2013 at 08:59:09 pm     #  

Wulf posted at 04:04:53 PM on Jan 24, 2013:

How many flags did she get?

Ha!
Ha!Ha!
Ha!Ha!Ha!

That's rich!

Thanks, Wulf.

posted by madjack on Jan 24, 2013 at 09:11:26 pm     #   1 person liked this

holland posted at 07:59:09 PM on Jan 24, 2013:

So, I should get a bug out bunker and an AK 47 with a big clip?

BTW my son works for the DOD. High security clearance. I really don't know what he actually does. But he is an American like the rest of us. Not the enemy.

If your son really works for the DOD and has top secret clearance, that means that the government has already crawled up your butt with a microscope and found the skeletons in the closet, the offshore bank account and the marital aids you don't want anyone to know you have.

It also means that if shit comes to sweat you'll toe the line like a good little communist and report to your neighborhood senior citizens center when you're too old to work.

posted by madjack on Jan 24, 2013 at 09:17:10 pm     #  

I'm not sure he has Top Secret security clearance. He has an official title and he works in information systems. I do know early on in his career some inquiries were made. He does work for the DOD, in Tampa FL, both he and my daughter in law. McDill. Yeah, the Petreaus, Jill Kelly thing. I got the real scoop. Communist? God what an asinine thing to post.

I would expect the government to make certain the people to whom they entrust sensitive information were from a stable background, not risky nut bags. Would you have them NOT investigate?

posted by holland on Jan 24, 2013 at 10:11:35 pm     #   1 person liked this

"BTW my son works for the DOD. High security clearance"

"I got the real scoop"

Yeah, so did TMZ.

posted by justread on Jan 25, 2013 at 07:21:27 am     #  

Nazi flags?
They allow WORLD WAR 2 memorabilia at gun shows frequented by collectors of WORLD WAR 2 memorabilia? OMG.

Shocking.

They allow civil war memorabilia too. Should I post it in a way that suggests a renewed movement toward secession and slavery?

"I saw a guy selling rebel flags, could mean a rebellion."

posted by justread on Jan 25, 2013 at 07:25:47 am     #  

Did anyone dress up like a Nazi?

posted by Linecrosser on Jan 25, 2013 at 11:06:53 am     #  

Linecrosser posted at 10:06:53 AM on Jan 25, 2013:

Did anyone dress up like a Nazi?

If they had, we'd have heard about it.
Anything "nazi" is a sure bet when you are attempting to marginalize an entire group of people by associating them with the perceived craziness of one.

posted by justread on Jan 25, 2013 at 11:12:10 am     #   2 people liked this

I am sure holland would have reported it, had it happened, probably with jubilant glee.

posted by Linecrosser on Jan 25, 2013 at 01:37:58 pm     #  

Assault Weapons Ban Lacks Democratic Votes to Pass Senate

A proposed ban on sales of assault weapons would be defeated in the U.S. Senate today unless some members changed their current views, based on a Bloomberg review of recent lawmaker statements and interviews.

At least six of the 55 senators who caucus with Democrats have recently expressed skepticism or outright opposition to a ban, the review found. That means Democrats wouldn’t have a simple 51-vote majority to pass the measure, let alone the 60 votes needed to break a Republican filibuster to bring it to a floor vote.

The five Democratic senators from traditionally pro-gun states who have recently expressed skepticism about the bill are Max Baucus and Jon Tester of Montana, Mark Begich of Alaska, Heidi Heitkamp of North Dakota and Joe Manchin of West Virginia. Independent Senator Angus King of Maine, who is caucusing with Democrats, also said he opposes a ban.

Maine Senator Susan Collins, a Republican who supported similar legislation in 2004, has indicated she is unlikely to back the proposed ban.

posted by oldhometown on Jan 25, 2013 at 02:52:42 pm     #  

Linecrosser posted at 10:06:53 AM on Jan 25, 2013:

Did anyone dress up like a Nazi?

You mean you weren't there? You missed your chance at being the only Nazi there!

posted by anonymouscoward on Jan 25, 2013 at 03:31:43 pm     #  

AC, I heard you showed up as Mussolini.

posted by Linecrosser on Jan 25, 2013 at 04:13:09 pm     #  

Linecrosser posted at 10:06:53 AM on Jan 25, 2013:

Did anyone dress up like a Nazi?

Just Rich Iott...

posted by SensorG on Jan 25, 2013 at 04:31:37 pm     #   1 person liked this

Oh was he there? Did you see him or are you just being facetious.

posted by Linecrosser on Jan 25, 2013 at 04:57:27 pm     #  

http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/story/20707196/dad-points-ak-47-at-daughter-for-grades

Yup, sounds like some of the people in this thread... if they were ever able to have children and not have them taken away at the earliest opportunity.

posted by anonymouscoward on Jan 25, 2013 at 05:14:08 pm     #  

Linecrosser posted at 03:13:09 PM on Jan 25, 2013:

AC, I heard you showed up as Mussolini.

He didn't. That was Holland in drag.

posted by madjack on Jan 25, 2013 at 05:49:49 pm     #  

MikeyA posted at 09:07:59 PM on Jan 23, 2013:

"My daughter & son-in-law went to the gun show. First time for her. She came back convinced that a large number of the people attending needed a psych eval. I think her take was "bunch of paranoid whackos"."

I saw the same crowd at the union rally.

Unfortunately for the union members, their paranoia has become reality. Statistically, that's the absolute opposite of gun show attendees.

posted by researcher on Jan 26, 2013 at 01:33:48 am     #  

justread posted at 10:12:10 AM on Jan 25, 2013:
Linecrosser posted at 10:06:53 AM on Jan 25, 2013:

Did anyone dress up like a Nazi?

If they had, we'd have heard about it.
Anything "nazi" is a sure bet when you are attempting to marginalize an entire group of people by associating them with the perceived craziness of one.

Good thing you're here to make apologies for lowlives!

posted by researcher on Jan 26, 2013 at 01:38:32 am     #  

madjack posted at 08:17:10 PM on Jan 24, 2013:
holland posted at 07:59:09 PM on Jan 24, 2013:

So, I should get a bug out bunker and an AK 47 with a big clip?

BTW my son works for the DOD. High security clearance. I really don't know what he actually does. But he is an American like the rest of us. Not the enemy.

If your son really works for the DOD and has top secret clearance, that means that the government has already crawled up your butt with a microscope and found the skeletons in the closet, the offshore bank account and the marital aids you don't want anyone to know you have.

It also means that if shit comes to sweat you'll toe the line like a good little communist and report to your neighborhood senior citizens center when you're too old to work.

It's cute that you're pretending you'd react differently.

posted by researcher on Jan 26, 2013 at 01:41:15 am     #  

researcher posted at 12:38:32 AM on Jan 26, 2013:
justread posted at 10:12:10 AM on Jan 25, 2013:
Linecrosser posted at 10:06:53 AM on Jan 25, 2013:

Did anyone dress up like a Nazi?

If they had, we'd have heard about it.
Anything "nazi" is a sure bet when you are attempting to marginalize an entire group of people by associating them with the perceived craziness of one.

Good thing you're here to make apologies for lowlives!

I apologize for researcher.

posted by justread on Jan 26, 2013 at 05:58:35 am     #   4 people liked this

To your aryan brothers? Don't feel so compelled. I'd never claim to associate with you.

posted by researcher on Jan 26, 2013 at 08:54:21 am     #  

researcher posted at 07:54:21 AM on Jan 26, 2013:

To your aryan brothers? Don't feel so compelled. I'd never claim to associate with you.

I know you. I don't know why you've taken a sudden interest in behaving like a complete and total ass, but whatever the reason, get over it.

If you want to make a valid argument on anything being discussed here, then by all means do so. If your argument holds water you'll find you're supported, regardless of political persuasion. So far, all you've managed to do is post a bunch of emotional 'I feel' drivel.

posted by madjack on Jan 26, 2013 at 10:30:10 am     #  

MikeyA posted at 09:07:59 PM on Jan 23, 2013:

"My daughter & son-in-law went to the gun show. First time for her. She came back convinced that a large number of the people attending needed a psych eval. I think her take was "bunch of paranoid whackos"."

I saw the same crowd at the union rally.

Which union rally?

posted by Sohio on Jan 26, 2013 at 11:46:59 am     #  

Just once I'd like to hear some liberal doosh-bag begin a sentence with "I think", instead of "I feel".

posted by Wulf on Jan 26, 2013 at 01:55:04 pm     #  

Wulf posted at 12:55:04 PM on Jan 26, 2013:

Just once I'd like to hear some liberal doosh-bag begin a sentence with "I think", instead of "I feel".

Wulf, if you said "I think", it'd be a lie right off the bat, as you are incapable of thought. You and your Teabagger brethren here operate on reflex and simple programming from right-wing outlets. This is why, for example, it just takes a few key words or phrases being mentioned to get GZ to spout "Liberals!" or Liney to spout "Obama is a socialist!". All you have are little algorithms waiting for the correct input to fire off the pre-programmed canned responses.

posted by anonymouscoward on Jan 26, 2013 at 02:40:54 pm     #  

In other words, like how I just played you like a fiddle? Of all the liberal doosh-bags here, you're the easiest, and the most fun to give a few strokes to! You're a sap, that's for sure! hahahahahahahahah!

posted by Wulf on Jan 26, 2013 at 02:50:17 pm     #   1 person liked this

Wulf posted at 12:55:04 PM on Jan 26, 2013:

Just once I'd like to hear some liberal doosh-bag begin a sentence with "I think", instead of "I feel".

In the context of debate or discussion, those two words mean essentially the same thing.

Also, 'doosh' is actually spelled 'Douche.'

posted by Sohio on Jan 26, 2013 at 03:08:42 pm     #  

Sohio posted at 02:08:42 PM on Jan 26, 2013:
Wulf posted at 12:55:04 PM on Jan 26, 2013:

Just once I'd like to hear some liberal doosh-bag begin a sentence with "I think", instead of "I feel".

In the context of debate or discussion, those two words mean essentially the same thing.

Also, 'doosh' is actually spelled 'Douche.'

Wulfie wouldn't know anything about douche, like most Tea-tarded conservatives, he knows nothing about vagina except that he should be in charge of it and have his government in it.

posted by anonymouscoward on Jan 26, 2013 at 03:58:16 pm     #   1 person liked this

Sohio posted at 10:46:59 AM on Jan 26, 2013:
MikeyA posted at 09:07:59 PM on Jan 23, 2013:

"My daughter & son-in-law went to the gun show. First time for her. She came back convinced that a large number of the people attending needed a psych eval. I think her take was "bunch of paranoid whackos"."

I saw the same crowd at the union rally.

Which union rally?

Wolf man posted video of it at swampbubbles.

posted by MikeyA on Jan 26, 2013 at 11:53:29 pm     #  

researcher posted at 12:33:48 AM on Jan 26, 2013:
MikeyA posted at 09:07:59 PM on Jan 23, 2013:

"My daughter & son-in-law went to the gun show. First time for her. She came back convinced that a large number of the people attending needed a psych eval. I think her take was "bunch of paranoid whackos"."

I saw the same crowd at the union rally.

Unfortunately for the union members, their paranoia has become reality. Statistically, that's the absolute opposite of gun show attendees.

Is their paranoia that there will be no unions if people aren't forced to join?

posted by MikeyA on Jan 26, 2013 at 11:56:31 pm     #   1 person liked this

Nobody is forced to join a union.

As I have pointed out on this board more times than I can count: what you are describing is known as a CLOSED SHOP. Closed shops were outlawed by the Taft-Hartley act.

In a non-RTW state, such as Ohio, you can be forced to pay dues to a union that is being compelled by law to represent you in your particular job, as dictated by the NLRB. But you cannot be forced to become a member.

In a RTW state, you cannot be forced to pay those dues; but the union will still be compelled by law to represent you in any job where the union has been established, as per the NLRB.

So, to answer your question: NO. I don't think that is what their paranoia is, since what you are suggesting does not exist in the first place. Interesting notion, though.

posted by Sohio on Jan 27, 2013 at 12:14:38 am     #   1 person liked this

So in Ohio you can be forced to pay dues to a union that you don't want to be a member of?
Thank GOD you can't be forced to actually "join."
Whew.

posted by justread on Jan 27, 2013 at 07:25:20 am     #  

Next gun show: March 9 and 10. Mark your calendar.
Go early, see the flags.

posted by justread on Jan 27, 2013 at 07:26:48 am     #  

justread posted at 06:25:20 AM on Jan 27, 2013:

So in Ohio you can be forced to pay dues to a union that you don't want to be a member of?
Thank GOD you can't be forced to actually "join."

Whew.

Yes, you can be 'forced' if you accept employment where a union exists. Nobody can force you to take a particular job; and if the presence of a union is a problem for you, you are free to seek employment elsewhere, OR, you can petition to have the union disbanded. If enough people in the workplace agree with you, you'll get your wish. Failing that, you can also strive to obtain a non-union management job in the same company.

posted by Sohio on Jan 27, 2013 at 10:05:42 am     #  

What about a shop where none of the workers want to be unionized but are because the workers back in 1960 voted for it. The workers 50 years later STILL have to pay to the union even though a clear majority may not want the union involved.

posted by MikeyA on Jan 27, 2013 at 12:04:37 pm     #  

Sohio posted at 09:05:42 AM on Jan 27, 2013:
justread posted at 06:25:20 AM on Jan 27, 2013:

So in Ohio you can be forced to pay dues to a union that you don't want to be a member of?
Thank GOD you can't be forced to actually "join."


Whew.

Yes, you can be 'forced' if you accept employment where a union exists. Nobody can force you to take a particular job; and if the presence of a union is a problem for you, you are free to seek employment elsewhere, OR, you can petition to have the union disbanded. If enough people in the workplace agree with you, you'll get your wish. Failing that, you can also strive to obtain a non-union management job in the same company.

It's no use arguing this, because these assholes are brain-damaged and do not comprehend irony or cognitive dissonance or hypocrisy. They can tell everyone that if you don't like condition X (where X is anything from dangerous working conditions, overwork, under-pay, no vacation, no sick time, etc.) as part of employment, then fuck off and find a different job, but when that condition is paying union dues, they magically have a GOD-GIVEN RIGHT to work that job without paying union dues.

posted by anonymouscoward on Jan 27, 2013 at 02:14:45 pm     #  

MikeyA posted at 11:04:37 AM on Jan 27, 2013:

What about a shop where none of the workers want to be unionized but are because the workers back in 1960 voted for it. The workers 50 years later STILL have to pay to the union even though a clear majority may not want the union involved.

Also not true. That, in fact, is the least accurate thing you have asserted so far.

Any union member can initiate a petition among members to de-certify the union. If enough people sign, a vote is held, and if enough people vote to get rid of the union, it's gone (it used to be "50%-plus-1", for both forming or disbanding a union, but that might have changed since the last time I checked...)

Admittedly, it's not easy, because even guys who dislike the union stand to lose something if it goes away--their seniority rights, if nothing else--so it is not easy to convince even the haters to sign such a petition. But it can be done and it does happen. One famous instance of this happening was at Coors Brewing in the 1980s.

This is getting OT...

posted by Sohio on Jan 28, 2013 at 12:21:02 am     #  

"Any union member can initiate a petition among members to de-certify the union. If enough people sign, a vote is held, and if enough people vote to get rid of the union, it's gone (it used to be "50%-plus-1", for both forming or disbanding a union, but that might have changed since the last time I checked...)"

Yes because the Union members, who don't belong, won't try to intimidate lock in step. After all they did tear down a tent and attack RTW supporters in Michigan even with camera's filming. This on top of a unions storied history of intimidation and maffia ties.

posted by MikeyA on Jan 28, 2013 at 12:21:53 pm     #  

Your first sentence makes no sense.

As to your second sentence, I can't defend the violent actions of certain people. But if you're going to judge an entire group by the actions of a few, there are not going to be many organizations or groups of any stripe that you could support.

As to your statement about the mafia; it's not 1950 anymore, Mikey. Yes, there have been unsavory elements in union leadership in the past. In some cases, there probably still are. But again, that could be said about almost anything. I might also point out that, if you think labor unions are the only ones who have ever done any intimidating, perhaps you have never heard of Harry Bennet and the Battle of the Overpass?

Bringing this back to the topic of the thread, if you are going to blame all unions and union members for the actions of some people in history and the present, and paint them all with the same brush...then I guess you'll blame all gun owners/users for the careless and/or criminal actions of some, too? Frankly, I don't think either of those broad generalizations is very fair.

posted by Sohio on Jan 28, 2013 at 01:29:41 pm     #   1 person liked this

madjack posted at 09:30:10 AM on Jan 26, 2013:
researcher posted at 07:54:21 AM on Jan 26, 2013:

To your aryan brothers? Don't feel so compelled. I'd never claim to associate with you.

I know you. I don't know why you've taken a sudden interest in behaving like a complete and total ass, but whatever the reason, get over it.

If you want to make a valid argument on anything being discussed here, then by all means do so. If your argument holds water you'll find you're supported, regardless of political persuasion. So far, all you've managed to do is post a bunch of emotional 'I feel' drivel.

Remember when I told you that you give yourself too much credit? Self-reflect, man!

posted by researcher on Jan 28, 2013 at 04:42:31 pm     #  

Harvard Study: More Guns Do Not Mean More Crime

From the study:

This Article has reviewed a significant amount of evidence from a wide variety of international sources. Each individual portion of evidence is subject to cavil—at the very least the general objection that the persuasiveness of social scientific evidence cannot remotely approach the persuasiveness of conclusions in the physical sciences. Nevertheless, the burden of proof rests on the proponents of the more guns equal more death and fewer guns equal less death mantra, especially since they argue public policy ought to be based on that mantra. To bear that burden would at the very least require showing that a large number of nations with more guns have more death and that nations that have imposed stringent gun controls have achieved substantial reductions in criminal violence (or suicide). But those correlations are not observed when a large number of nations are compared across the world.

You can read the whole paper here

posted by dbw8906 on Jan 28, 2013 at 07:03:29 pm     #  

Sohio, it's not like the 1950's? Who is the head of the Teamsters Int'l?

I rest my case.

posted by MikeyA on Jan 28, 2013 at 07:20:09 pm     #  

James P. Hoffa. Son of Jimmy Hoffa (who was a prominent REPUBLICAN, by the way). Junior didn't get elected until 20 years after senior 'disappeared.'

What's your point? I suppose you had as much of a problem with George Bush's son getting elected president? Or Henry Ford's grandson taking over Ford?

Is that really all you have?

Okay, I'll grant you one thing...it is sort of like the '50s again under Hoffa junior, in that the Teamsters Union has actually GROWN again since he took over, for the first time in decades...I'll give you that.

But again, getting back to my back-on-topic question from before: When assessing a group or organization, are we to ascribe all negative traits of the minority to the majority? Because I really think that is a slippery slope that is no good for anyone...

posted by Sohio on Jan 28, 2013 at 11:01:10 pm     #  

Sohio isn't "assessing a group or organization, are we to ascribe all negative traits of the minority to the majority?" exactly what "progressives" (which is a made up term to make Daily Show Watchers feel good about voting for a Neo-Con) are doing to gun owners right now?

Five people ACCIDENTALLY shot by all these RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNERS, BUYERS, AND SELLERS. - AC / At least 45 people were transported to area hospitals and 5 people died at Sugar Land concert in 2011, END CONCERTS! People have NO REAL REASON to be clustered together listening to the same hee haw music they can hear on the radio. There is NO REASON that people should be standing huddled together taking up land, leaving behind garbage, and polluting the earth by driving their carbon emitting cars there. No reason these people had to die, senseless. In 2003 in West Warwick, RI over 100 people where burned to death at a concert, and just a few days ago over 200 people where killed in Brazil and 100 taken to the hospital as another concert claimed their lives. Why are you not fighting to end senseless concert violence? Shouldn't all these people be regulated to stay home and listen to CD's/MP3's in safety? Don't you care for their souls? See we can all play the internet tragedy game.

"then what you are really saying is that random mass killings like Newtown are unfortunate but the price we pay for our Second Amendment rights as they currently exist." - ACE more kids, remember when somebody is trying to screw you over it's always for "the kids" ("Help the children, save the children, protect the children." You know what I say? Fuck the children! What I'm talking about is this constant, mindless yammering in the media, this neurotic fixation that suggests that somehow everything--everything--has to revolve around the lives of children. It's completely out of balance.- George Carlin) but Ace more children die from drowning than from gun violence, so you are saying for the price of you staying cool in the summertime that innocent children should have to die?

Apply the wedgie to the gun cabinet, not the shorts. There's probably not much much in the shorts, hence the need for a big gun cabinet. - Holland / Ahh thats right if you own a firearm you must be lacking in the "manhood" department. Same can be said for expensive cars & 500 dollars purses right too?

That's one thing that cracks me up about gun nuts: they often say that they are concerned about "safety" or "protecting their family." So they spend small fortunes and inordinate amounts of time preparing for unlikely situations like civil unrest, massive and persistent power failures and home invasions instead of preparing for much more likely (but less dramatic) perils that can face a family. - Ace / Let me first say that I don't own any "black" or assault rifles, have less than a 100 rounds of ammo in my house and I do not send any of my money to the NRA but I know LOTS of families who tell it that "family" comes first yet they blow 4 grand a year going to Mexico, gets that 3rd car that happens to be a cherry red convertible, have every iDevice they can get their hands on and haven't contributed to their kids college fund in years but sure do have a sweet boat. You can't categorize gun owners as the only people in this country with poor financial planning skills.

My daughter & son-in-law went to the gun show. First time for her. She came back convinced that a large number of the people attending needed a psych eval. I think her take was "bunch of paranoid whackos". - Holland / I work in predominately heavy industrial neighborhoods that are often populated by poor/young/minorities as rich older people don't build homes next to coal fired power plants. Now I'm only in these neighborhoods for a couple of hours per day (much like you genius level daughter & son-in-laws who must have a PHD in psychology being able to form evaluations so quickly) and all I see is random violence, people who don't care for their homes and neighborhood, and people who don't stay around to take care of the children they have. So by your logic it's fair after only spending a couple of hours in their company to call them ALL welfare loving, baby daddy having, dregs of society that should all be sterilized to preserve a peaceful and prosperous nation correct? I'm mean if you Freud children can judge a whole group of people on a what I'm going to say is 45 mins of interaction then why can't I?

Wulfie wouldn't know anything about douche, like most Tea-tarded conservatives, he knows nothing about vagina except that he should be in charge of it and have his government in it. - AC / Thats right if you didn't vote for Obama you MUST be a loser who never scores and pooty tang!

But again, getting back to my back-on-topic question from before: When assessing a group or organization, are we to ascribe all negative traits of the minority to the majority? Because I really think that is a slippery slope that is no good for anyone... - Sohio this whole fucking thread, especially the "intelligent Left" who must come and save all us "low information" troglodytes.

We are quick to try and restrict guns from the 99.99999% of Americans who didn't shoot anyone today (or any day) for the that matter but heaven forbid we talk about FACTS. Like the majority of gun deaths come from gang violence, or that most shooting somehow roll back to the War on Drugs. Or maybe the fact that our massive rates of incarceration create a new post-felon class of non-violent offender who have never hurt anyone but are now left with the felon moniker and have little choice in the society for prosperity outside of crime. But nope we don't want to talk about solving those issues. Lets get the EVIL RIFLES from the crazy hillbillies cause they are death machines! Even though 99.999999% of gun deaths never involve "assault rifles".

Nation Murder Rate vs Rate of Gun Ownership
Russia 20.54 [2002] 4,000
Luxembourg 9.01 [2002] c. 0
Hungary 2.22 [2003] 2,000
Finland 1.98 [2004] 39,000
Sweden 1.87 [2001] 24,000
Poland 1.79 [2003] 1,500
France 1.65 [2003] 30,000
Denmark 1.21 [2003] 19,000
Greece 1.12 [2003] 11,000
Switzerland 0.99 [2003] 16,000
Germany 0.93 [2003] 30,000
Norway 0.81 [2001] 36,000
Austria 0.80 [2002] 17,000

Less guns DO NOT equal less violent crime, FACTS prove that no matter how it makes you "feel". NO study can be found to show that less gun equal more safety. From Harvard Report linked above:

A second misconception about the relationship between firearms and violence attributes Europe’s generally low homicide rates to stringent gun control. That attribution cannot be accurate since murder in Europe was at an all‐time low before the gun controls were introduced. For instance, virtually the only English gun control during the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries was the practice that police patrolled without guns. During this period gun control prevailed far less in England or Europe than in certain American states which nevertheless had and continue to have murder rates that were and are comparatively very high.

The peacefulness England used to enjoy was not the result of strict gun laws. When it had no firearms restrictions [nineteenth and early twentieth century] England had little violent crime, while the present extraordinarily stringent gun controls have not stopped the increase in violence or even the increase in armed violence. Armed crime, never a problem in England, has now be‐come one. Handguns are banned but the Kingdom has millions of illegal firearms. Criminals have no trouble finding them and exhibit a new willingness to use them. In the decade after 1957, the use of guns in serious crime increased a hundredfold.

posted by dbw8906 on Jan 29, 2013 at 09:43:04 am     #   3 people liked this

posted by Linecrosser on Jan 29, 2013 at 11:53:22 am     #   1 person liked this

'Sohio isn't "assessing a group or organization, are we to ascribe all negative traits of the minority to the majority?" exactly what "progressives" (which is a made up term to make Daily Show Watchers feel good about voting for a Neo-Con) are doing to gun owners right now?'

Well, I, for one, am not. And if anyone is, that is not fair, and it is wrong. But it is also wrong to do the same thing to union members, or Catholics, or people from Detroit, or anyone else. That is my point. Let's not fight stereotypes with stereotypes. It's not only counter-productive, it is a lazy debate tactic.

I know better than to judge ALL gun owners/users by the misguided or criminal actions of a minority. I own a rifle myself, as do several members of my immediate family, past and present. I realize that some people do not know better than to espouse broad generalizations about gun owners, and I am sorry about that. But turning around and saying 'OH YEAH??? YOU KNOW WHO ELSE IS VIOLENT AND SHADY? UNION MEMBERS...!' is doing exactly the same thing; and that was what it seemed to me mikeyA was doing. You cannot fight ignorance with ignorance. Ignorance does not cancel itself out, it compounds.

Either it is OK or it isn't. That was all I was trying to say.

posted by Sohio on Jan 29, 2013 at 02:01:45 pm     #  

By the way, I don't think I stood on that point 'this whole fucking thread,' as you put it. I believe I posed the question once, and reiterated once when it was not answered. Two posts is hardly 'this whole fucking thread.'

posted by Sohio on Jan 29, 2013 at 02:16:40 pm     #  

Sohio I agree, it's not ok. I'm doing my best to learn to not classify people on historical models I may have built up, but I'm not perfect.

I've tried my best to have rational discussion with people who check the "D" box more often because I'm not a Republican and I need I do feel the need to have more than one knowledge set to draw from. But it seems they are just as Constitutionally daft as TeaBaggers and they all end the conversation by trying to be a Daily Show writer as it devolves into ad hominem attacks in attempts to be culturally funny regurgitating what they heard Steward or Colbert dribble on about last night. Nobody wishes to have real debates anymore, just to name call and play some dumb ass game of one ups-manship. It's "ok" for Holland's Einstein like progeny to make rash, uninformed decisions on people as "wackos" as the smart, well to do, Ivory Tower Liberals love to do, but don't you dare try to do the same thing because you then are a uninformed Teatard, Kotchsucker, and Right Wing nut jobs. It's a two way street and it's not maintained well.

“It would be easy to say that we owe it all to the Bush family from Texas, but that would be too simplistic. They are only errand boys for the vengeful, bloodthirsty cartel of raving Jesus-freaks and super-rich money mongers who have ruled for at least the last 20 years, and arguably the last 200 years. They take orders well, and they don’t ask too many questions. The real power in America is held by a fast-emerging new Oligarchy of pimps and preachers who see no need for Democracy or fairness or even trees, except maybe the ones in their own yards, and they don’t mind admitting it. They worship money and power and death. Their ideal solution to all the nation’s problems would be another 100 Year War. Coming of age in a fascist police state will not be a barrel of fun for anybody, much less for people like me, who are not inclined to suffer Nazis gladly and feel only contempt for the cowardly flag-suckers who would gladly give up their outdated freedom to live for the mess of pottage they have been conned into believing will be freedom from fear. Ho ho ho. Let’s not get carried away here. Freedom was yesterday in this country. Its value has been discontinued. The only freedom we truly crave today is freedom from Dumbness. Nothing else matters.

We are turning into a nation of whimpering slaves to Fear—fear of war, fear of poverty, fear of random terrorism, fear of getting down-sized or fired because of the plunging economy, fear of getting evicted for bad debts or suddenly getting locked up in a military detention camp on vague charges of being a Terrorist sympathizer.” — Hunter S Thompson ”Extreme Behavior in Aspen,” February 3, 2003

posted by dbw8906 on Jan 29, 2013 at 02:18:08 pm     #   1 person liked this

Did you know?
People who went around correcting other people’s grammar are actually suffering from a form of OCD -- Grammar Pedantry Syndrome.

posted by Linecrosser on Jan 29, 2013 at 06:16:55 pm     #  

Linecrosser posted at 05:16:55 PM on Jan 29, 2013:

Did you know?
People who went around correcting other people’s grammar are actually suffering from a form of OCD -- Grammar Pedantry Syndrome.

You think so?

I would surmise they are suffering from something different; a combination of: a basic education, a grasp of their own native tongue, and reasonable annoyance at those who can't master something as simple as basic grammar and spelling.

posted by Sohio on Jan 29, 2013 at 06:35:34 pm     #   1 person liked this

From DBW8906: It's a two way street and it's not maintained well.

That's what happens when you use union labor and the Moonbats are in office. Instead of asking 'Who's guarding the hen house?' you're left with 'Which fox is guarding the hen house this week?', and now the government wants to make it a crime to hunt foxes.

From DBW8906: We are turning into a nation of whimpering slaves to Fear... [fear of] suddenly getting locked up in a military detention camp on vague charges of being a Terrorist sympathizer.

Which is the real fear. I can handle most anything else, but the thing I actually fear the most is the government; Federal, State and Local, in that order. The real problem is that the Federal government polices itself and all decisions are made arbitrarily. So, should some alphabet soup agency that no one has ever heard of because the name is classified decide that I'm a risk to someone somewhere, I could be swept up, rigorously interrogated and sent overseas for political reeducation - or something. Mind you, there doesn't have to be any evidence. There are people being held incommunicado in the U.S. right now without any evidence at all.

posted by madjack on Jan 29, 2013 at 06:36:04 pm     #  

Linecrosser posted at 05:16:55 PM on Jan 29, 2013:

Did you know?
People who went around correcting other people’s grammar are actually suffering from a form of OCD -- Grammar Pedantry Syndrome.

By the way, you used two conflicting tenses there: 'went' is past tense and 'are' is present tense.

posted by Sohio on Jan 29, 2013 at 06:37:15 pm     #  

"James P. Hoffa. Son of Jimmy Hoffa (who was a prominent REPUBLICAN, by the way). Junior didn't get elected until 20 years after senior 'disappeared.'

What's your point? I suppose you had as much of a problem with George Bush's son getting elected president? Or Henry Ford's grandson taking over Ford?

Is that really all you have? Oh yeah, I'm sure the mob connections ended in 1982. That's how it ALWAYS happens.

"But turning around and saying 'OH YEAH??? YOU KNOW WHO ELSE IS VIOLENT AND SHADY? UNION MEMBERS...!' is doing exactly the same thing; and that was what it seemed to me mikeyA was doing. You cannot fight ignorance with ignorance. Ignorance does not cancel itself out, it compounds." Actually if you look at my first union post it's clear that it was in jest. A form of socratic irony to show Holland the error of his assessment. AND if you do take issue with what I said, I believe I can show a much better propensity for violence among Union members than legal gun owners. Would you really like us to compare those instances? I can cite specific examples. Do you really understand what "May Day" is? As someone who was in a union and grew up in a union household I know the history behind it and there's a difference between accidents and premeditation. This is not ignorance, it is fact-based analysis and a large reason why no one in my immediate family are union supporters anymore.

If you think it's ignorance it's because you are ignoring the facts yourself.

posted by MikeyA on Jan 29, 2013 at 08:58:50 pm     #  

Sohio posted at 05:35:34 PM on Jan 29, 2013:
Linecrosser posted at 05:16:55 PM on Jan 29, 2013:

Did you know?
People who went around correcting other people’s grammar are actually suffering from a form of OCD -- Grammar Pedantry Syndrome.

You think so?

I would surmise they are suffering from something different; a combination of: a basic education, a grasp of their own native tongue, and reasonable annoyance at those who can't master something as simple as basic grammar and spelling.

Yes. Now just think for a moment that this is the Internet and people from all over are looking at Liney and judging America on the basis of his grasp of the native language and argumentative skills.

Thanks for making America look bad, Liney. Why do you hate America so much to do that to our great nation?

posted by anonymouscoward on Jan 29, 2013 at 09:22:23 pm     #  

'Oh yeah, I'm sure the mob connections ended in 1982. That's how it ALWAYS happens."
Mikey, I have no proof on that one way or another, nor do you. It's all speculation now, and it is quite pointless. I can say that at the same time Hoffa was running the Teamsters, Walt Reuther was running the UAW. Reuther has an enduring reputation as a honest and scrupulous man, as well as a hopeless square who did not drink or smoke and had nothing but a glass of milk for lunch. So if you want to get into dueling examples of good guy/bad guy, we can sit here and one-up each other all night. What's the point?

I'm not sure what your May Day point is? May Day means something different depending on what part of the world you're from. Were you referring to the origins as Loyalty day? Or its origins from Haymarket and co-opt by communists? In any event, I am not going to try and change your mind, if you have your mind made up that union members have an inclination toward violence. The fact is, if you want to broad-brush any group of people, then it can be done to ANY group of people.

If your original pint was in jest, I apologize for over-reacting.

posted by Sohio on Jan 29, 2013 at 09:45:56 pm     #  

Sohio posted at 05:37:15 PM on Jan 29, 2013:
Linecrosser posted at 05:16:55 PM on Jan 29, 2013:

Did you know?
People who went around correcting other people’s grammar are actually suffering from a form of OCD -- Grammar Pedantry Syndrome.

By the way, you used two conflicting tenses there: 'went' is past tense and 'are' is present tense.

was copied and pasted from a Facebook site. I did Google it and there were several hits regarding it. I think its more along the lines of people that absolutely have to nit pick about spelling and grammar, not in the case where someone just doesn't like the content and tries to slam someone for their grammar and spelling so they can dismiss the argument rather than reply with a real response.

posted by Linecrosser on Jan 30, 2013 at 01:00:24 am     #  

I know how to get the NRA to support gun control and to get the GOP to pass it.

It is really easy.

posted by anonymouscoward on Jan 30, 2013 at 01:38:18 am     #  

When you get full dem support, wake me up.

posted by justread on Jan 30, 2013 at 07:02:40 am     #  

justread posted at 06:02:40 AM on Jan 30, 2013:

When you get full dem support, wake me up.

The plan is very simple. Secretly hire a large number (50-500) of young black male actors who are all under the strictest non-disclosure agreement known to man, put them in "New Black Panther" costumes, and have them openly carry AR-15s with and Glocks in a "demonstration march" in several major cities.

By about the fourth march, this will be all over Fox News.

Suddenly, the GOP and the NRA will piss their pants over a pile of highly armed black men running around and will pass a gun ban with no problem.

posted by anonymouscoward on Jan 30, 2013 at 10:52:53 pm     #  

Actually the irony of your post AC is most of the gun crime is perpetrated by young black men, just a fact of the statistics. Yes, we should be doing something to end that type of crime.

However, we need to do it via a socieological and cultural change, not gun laws. There are enough gun laws on the books, it's the enforcement that lags.

Plus I think that your hypothesis that the NRA would support a gun ban even in that instance is roundly false.

posted by MikeyA on Jan 30, 2013 at 11:06:25 pm     #  

Suddenly, the GOP and the NRA will piss their pants over a pile of highly armed black men running around and will pass a gun ban with no problem.

You're an idiot.

posted by madjack on Jan 30, 2013 at 11:16:25 pm     #  

anonymouscoward posted at 09:52:53 PM on Jan 30, 2013:
justread posted at 06:02:40 AM on Jan 30, 2013:

When you get full dem support, wake me up.

The plan is very simple. Secretly hire a large number (50-500) of young black male actors who are all under the strictest non-disclosure agreement known to man, put them in "New Black Panther" costumes, and have them openly carry AR-15s with and Glocks in a "demonstration march" in several major cities.

By about the fourth march, this will be all over Fox News.

Suddenly, the GOP and the NRA will piss their pants over a pile of highly armed black men running around and will pass a gun ban with no problem.

Todd Bridges is available.

posted by justread on Jan 31, 2013 at 08:29:17 am     #  

See if you can dig up Al Jolson...

posted by Sohio on Jan 31, 2013 at 02:17:51 pm     #   1 person liked this

Karl Frederick died 50 years ago.
Is he still president of the NRA?

Meanwhile, since violence is destroying black culture, and most gun crimes are committed by black youth, maybe getting the Black Panthers involved and taking responsibility for the upbringing of young black men would help, and why certainly, the law abiding, non-felon members of the Black Panther would have equal rights under the extisting 20,000 gun laws.

posted by justread on Jan 31, 2013 at 05:09:22 pm     #   2 people liked this

upso posted at 01:49:30 PM on Jan 18, 2013:

Good time to sell!

How much for your AR15? :)

posted by justread on Feb 01, 2013 at 07:27:00 am     #  

I apologize for the grammar and over all sentence structure in my last post. I end up patching a post together through out the day on my phone as I sit and wait for other crews to finish. The phone is not the best place to edit a post and my sausage like finger hit "Post" instead of "Preview".

But I thought armed guards in schools would never help???

Armed guard disarmed shooter in Atlanta school shooting, says police chief

posted by dbw8906 on Feb 01, 2013 at 01:52:57 pm     #  

BTW a leader in non-violent protest and a wonderful man of change and Liberty, Dr. Martin Luther King had LOTS of guns. He knew that most gun laws in the country started as racism and continue to this day.

According to John M. Snyder: “At one time, King applied for a permit to carry a concealed handgun, but was denied. He was concerned for his personal safety, just as are a lot of law-abiding American citizens.“ - OH THE HORROR THAT A BLACK MAN BE AFFORDED THE SAME RIGHTS AS A WHITE MAN! Dr. King's house had just been firebombed, he was under a constant state of duress, but because he was black, he was denied the right to protect himself.

Lousiana has one of the first gun control laws in the nation and it was created for blacks.

No negro who is not in the military service shall be allowed to carry fire-arms, or any kind of weapons, within the parish, without the special written permission of his employers, approved and endorsed by the nearest and most convenient chief of patrol.”

Kurt Hofmann writing for Examiner.Com elaborates on the racism behind these laws:

“UCLA Constitutional law professor Adam Winkler–hardly likely to be mistaken for a fervent gun rights advocate–readily acknowledges bigotry as the father of “gun control,” as he explained in an interview with the Wall Street Journal:

In his research for ‘Gunfight,’ Winkler also noted a close intersection between guns and racism. ‘It was a constant pressure among white racists to keep guns out of the hands of African-Americans, because they would rise up and revolt.’ he said. ‘The KKK began as a gun-control organization. Before the Civil War, blacks were never allowed to own guns. During the Civil War, blacks kept guns for the first time – either they served in the Union army and they were allowed to keep their guns, or they buy guns on the open market where for the first time there’s hundreds of thousands of guns flooding the marketplace after the war ends. So they arm up because they know who they’re dealing with in the South.’”

Former Chicago Mayor Richard J. Daley had some views on the subject:

“Outside the suburbs in the city, we have control, but what the hell, in the suburbs, there are — you go out to all around our suburbs and you’ve got people out there, especially the non-white, are buying guns right and left. Shotguns and rifles and pistols and everything else. There’s no registration. … There’s no, and you know, they’ve had trouble with this national gun law, but after the president’s assassination, someone ought to do something.”

It's why the rights of minorities are so important, what we allow the government do to the poorest or weakest of us will one day end up on our heads.

One has not only a legal, but a moral responsibility to obey just laws. Conversely, one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws.

- Martin Luther King Jr.

posted by dbw8906 on Feb 01, 2013 at 02:05:43 pm     #   2 people liked this

But I thought armed guards in schools would never help???

Nah, of course not. I mean, look at this bunch of unreasonable people calling for armed (meaning "carrying firearms") security...

NBC Connecticut: Newtown Calls for Armed School Officers

posted by oldhometown on Feb 01, 2013 at 05:00:50 pm     #   3 people liked this

I see an armed guard caught the latest shooter in Atlanta.

posted by Wulf on Feb 02, 2013 at 02:27:45 pm     #   1 person liked this