Toledo Talk

Sadly...Deadspin spins a more local story

http://deadspin.com/5983592/im-down-for-drinks-laughs-sex-the-sexual-harassment-claims-that-brought-down-toledos-running-coach

created by Solleks on Feb 12, 2013 at 04:49:46 pm
updated by Solleks on Feb 12, 2013 at 04:52:12 pm
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Comments ... #

I saw that - the article was definitely more detailed than the Blade.

(Though the Blade did reveal the runner's real name.)

posted by mom2 on Feb 12, 2013 at 04:54:43 pm     #  

I saw that - the article was definitely more detailed than the Blade.

(Though the Blade did reveal the runner's real name.)

posted by mom2 on Feb 12, 2013 at 04:54:47 pm     #  

I don't know why I had a double post - I swear I didn't hit enter twice!

posted by mom2 on Feb 12, 2013 at 04:55:13 pm     #   2 people liked this

I'm guessing that Deadspin had been tipped off about the story (probably by Kertesz herself) a few weeks ago, and had a lot of time to dig into this and write the more detailed story. And then, when the Blade somehow (finally) got wind of the impending Deadspin scoop, threw together their story with minimal time to work it up.

As a side note, I was disappointed that 13 ABC and Shawn Hagerty did not credit Deadspin or the Blade during their 6 pm newscast tonight. All Hagerty said was "facts are leaking out" before running his tape of an interview with O'Brien today. It was quite obvious that Hagerty read the two articles and that was the only way he knew to cover the story today.

posted by JohnnyMac on Feb 12, 2013 at 08:10:42 pm     #  

Wow that was a long article!!

posted by slowsol on Feb 12, 2013 at 08:10:44 pm     #  

slowsol - long and boring. I lost track of the characters half way through, went back then decided I don't really care. Seems like some of the students were enabling his actions.

posted by Molsonator on Feb 12, 2013 at 08:33:52 pm     #  

What a loser. His text messages sound like they came from a 15 year old.

posted by Star56 on Feb 12, 2013 at 09:20:38 pm     #  

Didn't this guy learn from Kwame no text messages

posted by In_vin_veritas on Feb 12, 2013 at 11:04:40 pm     #   3 people liked this

Star, totally agree. I was embarrassed more because of his word choices (straight up dude, literally) and his incessant nagging and chatting another girl up about things like what it would be like to have sex with her teammate than I was with what he actually did.

posted by Johio83 on Feb 12, 2013 at 11:44:08 pm     #  

"Seems like some of the students were enabling his actions"

Do you mean its OK for an instructor to use his position of authority to convince students to engage in prohibited sexual relationships if they consent? How does a student "enable" a teacher or coach? Was it entirely the student's responsibility to say no? Or the coach's responsibility to maintain a professional relationship under widely known rules of conduct in place at all schools and universities? Maybe its just me but coaches aren't supposed to entice students, let alone participate in sexual relationhips.

posted by holland on Feb 13, 2013 at 08:24:24 am     #   1 person liked this

Nope Holland, the Coach was entirely wrong. He has real moral and ethical issues. It's just I would expect the students to step up. They know what is right and wrong. If you have a 21 year old student dating their coach - that says I don't care about the University, my scholarship or the program. If you have students witnessing drunk driving of other students...and not reporting it right away, that's bad.

posted by Molsonator on Feb 13, 2013 at 08:50:03 am     #  

Molsonator posted at 07:50:03 AM on Feb 13, 2013:

Nope Holland, the Coach was entirely wrong. He has real moral and ethical issues. It's just I would expect the students to step up. They know what is right and wrong. If you have a 21 year old student dating their coach - that says I don't care about the University, my scholarship or the program. If you have students witnessing drunk driving of other students...and not reporting it right away, that's bad.

I bet you were a fun person at 21.

posted by researcher on Feb 13, 2013 at 08:59:05 am     #  

The drunk driving was the freakin coach researcher.

posted by Molsonator on Feb 13, 2013 at 09:02:30 am     #   1 person liked this

Yikes! I have to agree with Molsontor. If your referring to turning a blind eye to drunken driving than I DO believe the students were reckless enablers. Having a sexual relationship with your coch is one thing. Letting him or anybody else drive drunk and endangering lives is something on a whole other level. Shame on them.

posted by holland on Feb 13, 2013 at 10:21:06 am     #  

"... when the Blade somehow (finally) got wind of the impending Deadspin scoop, threw together their story with minimal time to work it up."

From the Deadspin story :

The last we heard, Hadsell was tipping off the Toledo Blade about our story and issuing a pre-emptive denial.

More from the Deadspin story:

"Still to this day I wish I would have done something," said a former runner who's now in his early 30s.

At 18 to 21 years of age, don't want to make waves. Just want to fit in. Don't want to jeopardize school and running. But more than 10 years later, the person has a different perspective on life.

The coach's "playbook:"

But Hadsell's control over his female athletes would often extend beyond the track. Several female runners from different eras described a similar process. The texting would begin early, during freshman or sophomore year. A runner who paid attention to Hadsell would be repaid with a bigger role on the team. A runner who ignored his personal intrusions would be ignored as an athlete.

By the time Andrea arrived on campus, there was a playbook. Hadsell first began texting her regularly near the end of her freshman year. She wanted to improve as a runner, and she knew what it took to join the in-crowd.

About the "in crowd:"

Hadsell had a group of his female runners he openly referred to as the "in crowd," according to several former Toledo athletes. In-crowd runners were those who paid special attention to their coach and who in return received preferential treatment during practices and meets.

"Coach Hadsell, you need to be his buddy," Andrea said. "You had to be friends with him or he'll just ignore you. There's no coincidence the in-crowd girls—the girls he races constantly in the big meets—are the women who talk to him the most and have the most open line of communication."

Another runner recalled Hadsell texting incessantly about her weekend plans: "At first you wanted that because you knew that he cared about you as an athlete, which is not right," she said. "At some points it was like a competition to get his attention, which is kind of fucked up and weird, but for some reason you wanted his approval."

"I feel that he recruits—based on the coaches I've had since then—that he recruits a certain mentality of girl that seems to buy into him," said one woman who ran under Hadsell in the mid- to late-2000s. "We were all kind of naive that way. We thought he was so awesome and would do whatever he said."

About the coach's success at UT:

Hadsell had been at Toledo since 1998, and in the intervening years he had built the Rockets into a regional power, becoming an institution unto himself along the way. The 42-year-old was a five-time Mid-American Conference coach of the year.

In 2003, he became director of the school's entire running program. In short order he turned one of the country's worst women's programs into the cream of the MAC. Before his arrival, the women's cross country team had finished last in the MAC in 13 out of the previous 18 seasons. Under Hadsell, the women's team would win league titles in 2001 and 2002, and again in 2010, 2011, and 2012.

But ...

In addition, the runners we spoke to said Hadsell would regularly talk to them about sex and send them sexually suggestive text messages. He hounded runners who tried to quit the team. He used his authority as a coach to exert dominion over the private lives of his athletes, pressuring his female runners to stay off birth control. Former runners also recall Hadsell drunk-driving the team van, drinking during practices, and buying alcohol for underage runners.

"We were all brainwashed and thought less of her for taking birth control."

One source described a "cover-up culture" among the athletes— female athletes too uncomfortable to bring up the matter with each other or with school officials. Some worried that nobody would believe their word against that of a highly respected coach. Some didn't want to risk their position with the team. Others worried about outing their friends.

posted by jr on Feb 13, 2013 at 10:40:37 am     #   1 person liked this

A quick story illustrating how times have changed.

Back in 1978 I was in grad school at a private Catholic University. One of my fellow grad students was a beautiful young woman.

A well respected professor (in his late 50's) in my department openly approached the young lady and asked if she would like to join him and his wife for a sexual encounter. She was amused by gently declined his offer.

The professor was a card carrying hippie from the 60's and openly promoted his views on sexuality. His demeanor was not sleazy but rather "alternative lifestyle".

Nobody gave it a second thought or considered it outrageous.

Today your tenure would be at risk for such a proposal.

posted by Star56 on Feb 13, 2013 at 02:54:44 pm     #  

To me the guy is simply a creep and should never get another coaching job. Back in the 60's and 70;s this behavior might be laughed off. That is not the case in today's world. I would also expect 18-21 year old women to stand up against this type of behavior.

posted by jackie on Feb 13, 2013 at 03:42:30 pm     #   3 people liked this

Even if all the involved students were consenting adults, this clown of a coach was using his power and position to negatively influence the behavior of the students he was supposed to be supervising. Coaches, professors, bosses, politicians, cops, and so on: if someone is in a direct reporting relationship with you, stay the hell away from them in sexual relationships, and keep your interaction to alcohol-free and organization-sanctioned public events.

I never cease to be amazed at idiots who throw away entire careers over bullshit behavior like this. Heck, if I have a student in the office, I keep the door at least 1/4 open, and I limit contact to university- and department-sponsored events. If this is a conversation that needs to occur away from the office, it will happen at a public place, like a Starbucks or Panera. Most importantly, though: my students trust me not to be a lecherous asshole, and chasing after them is a violation of mentor-mentee trust as much as it is boorish behavior.

Also: while someone may be an "adult" at 18, or even 22, let's face it: these are still highly impressionable and easily swayed young people, not really that much different from 16- and 17-year-olds. I had a boss who engaged in a lot of shady behavior (financial scams, not sexual escapades) when I was that age, and I kept my pie-hole shut mostly because the boss was quite imposing. As a more mature person I realize now he was a bag full of hot air, but at that age I bought the wink-wink nudge-nudge "everybody does this shit" line and looked the other way with his corrupt side deals.

posted by historymike on Feb 13, 2013 at 06:09:03 pm     #   4 people liked this

1.) I guess there were no courthouses being torn down in this case, so an investigation was not necessary by the Blade into activities at the University of Toledo, formerly known as Toledo University or TU.

Borrowing my question from several "Blade" threads--what exactly am I missing by not paying for a subscription???

2.) This type of shit goes on...even in this "enlightened" age...far more than is publicly acknowledged. And that goes for both coach/student and professor/student relationships.

posted by oldhometown on Feb 13, 2013 at 06:14:24 pm     #   1 person liked this

looks like search is disabled unless you are logged in

posted by upso on Feb 13, 2013 at 06:37:30 pm     #  

Molsonator posted at 08:02:30 AM on Feb 13, 2013:

The drunk driving was the freakin coach researcher.

Yes, THAT'S to what I was referring!

posted by researcher on Feb 14, 2013 at 11:21:06 am     #  

A bit of a whizzing match flared up between the Toledo Blade and Deadspin that some have called Old Media vs New Media.

Here's an excerpt from a Feb 13, 2013 comment by Toledo Blade Managing Editor Dave Murray posted in the Facebook comments section of this week's Blade story about the UT coach resigning:

Emma Kertesz agreed to an on-the-record interview with Blade sports writer Ryan Autullo and she knew her name would be published with her comments.

The difference between the coverage of this story by The Blade and Deadspin is that Autullo is a professional journalist who has named sources and you can believe what he reports.


Feb 13-14 postings elsewhere related to this:

Some excerpts from the above stories:

Deadspin's editor Tommy Craggs disagrees.

"If Dave Murray wants to say something about the veracity of our reporting, without which the Blade's story likely never would've existed, he should say it," Craggs fired back in an email to POLITICO. "Otherwise he's just another asshole leaving bad comments on the Internet."

I think I get Murray's frustration. As editor of a venerable, 175-year-old newspaper, it can be hard to lose a local story to a bunch of profanity-loving kids from a New York-based website*. But the inability to accept that Deadspin is a legitimate news outlet -- and a strong one at that -- is so archaic and tin-eared I'm surprised Murray could even figure out how to post it online.

...

It's bloggers vs. newspapers time again! And on this occasion, we have the special soupçons of access-dependent local sportswriters, deranged editors, and Gawker's well-tuned nose for drama.

Deadspin's reporter, Doug Brown, said they kept Kertesz's anonymity at her request, and opined on Twitter that "it’s kind of fucked up what they did, didn’t challenge the coach at all or talk to more people; just used his side w/o question".

The Blade's reporter, Ryan Autillo, punched back :

If Deadspin reporter on Hadsell was as inaccurate in his reporting as in his Twitter insults of me/Blade, you shouldn't believe a word. ... Also, based on his timeline he desperately wants everyone to know he wrote this piece. #youarentthestory

...

Earlier this week, Deadspin published a story about a University of Toledo track coach who was busted for sending illicit messages to students. The Toledo Blade, the 177-year-old newspaper that was also chasing the story, got scooped. Sound familiar?

The Toledo Blade wasn't pleased. Their story on Hadsell didn't hit until later Tuesday morning. After all, they were just the latest publication chasing a story they should have owned, only to get scooped by Deadspin. It's been something of a trend lately.

Old media fretting over new media scooping them on big stories is nothing new. Most recently ESPN tried to defend itself to The New York Times for not reporting the Manti T'eo story sooner. In case you don't remember, it was Deadspin who scooped them.

...

Both stories have different styles, written for their respective audiences, but they each get the point across. I don’t view this issue as old vs. new media, but rather, more traditional media finding a way to gain equal footing with a growing online, up-to-the minute reporting. We are well aware that news doesn’t wait until tomorrow morning, and we intend to break the news when we have it confirmed, even if it is 7:13 a.m.

...

It may be more of a non-story quibble than anything, but it shows the shifting dynamic of reporting - both in sports and in news. Deadspin, for their part, gained a lot of cred following the Manti Te'o story, though newsroom curmudgeons the world over aren't ready to relinquish their grip.

...

From KURT FRANCK, executive editor, Toledo Blade: There has been some back-and-forth debate today about old vs. new media as it relates to a sports story reported by deadspin.com and The Blade/toledoblade.com. Some may view our newspaper as “old media” — we prefer “traditional” — but we also have a Web site that is updated around-the-clock. We have several blogs and we break news. To assume our method of reporting is only to be found in the printed edition is inaccurate and a stereotype that “new” media supporters need to move past. We are “new” media, too.


Murray tweeted on Feb 13:

Didn't mean to "diss" Deadspin by praising @AutulloBlade for sourced story about UT coach/texting, but that's how it went down.

posted by jr on Feb 14, 2013 at 03:19:53 pm     #  

Interesting, jr.

One thing that is kind of hinted at in all those back 'n' forths, but not outright said, is that Deadspin or any other non-Toledo outlet doesn't have to give a flying fuck about who they piss off in the local power structure. They are not trying to schmooze, to get invited to the kool-kids parties, to get that $100,000 ad buy for football, not trying to partner with other entities. They just chase after the story, like the adversarial press should do--it's their job.

Who is Lloyd Jacobs to Deadspin? Nobody. Who is Dave Murray, Ryan Autullo, Kurt Franck? Who gives a damn? Deadspin sourced their story, did a hell of a detailed job (it appears), and beat the shit out of a "newspaper" with immense home-turf advantage (including...you'd think...its own sources).

This story was beaten down somewhere early in the process (when someone was desperately trying to tip them off). I've worked too long in media and with newspeople to not know that someone shit-tanked this thing...and it wasn't the reporter. It was someone higher up who was worried about offending or embarrassing UT, or the athletics department, or not getting "access" to UT coaches, players, meetings, students, cafeteria food...whatever. Christ...cowboy up you wimps.

Sorry if I'm pissing all over the newspaper (or news) business, but I swear that these news "titans" would sell their mothers to Satan just to have "access" and be in the in crowd and go to the cool parties hosted by the upper crust. It's done here, it's done in other cities, and it's done on a national scale. Kiss the asses of the powerful with puffball stories and suppress anything embarrassing and....(gasp)....you'll get to come to JRB house for Christmas this year and have a sweelllll time! And this time, in my opinion, that attitude got them scooped by a blog willing to do....wait for it.... journalism!

Of course, the big dead rotting elephant question in the room is this: what other stories is the Blade sitting on because of political/social pressure? Do you honestly believe in this fabulous city our largest problems are a torn down courthouse miles away or the Humane Society?

It's called competition, Blade dudes. And this time you can't steamroll 'em out of town like you've done or tried to do with every other competitor.

posted by oldhometown on Feb 14, 2013 at 03:58:07 pm     #   5 people liked this

A small addendum to the previous post:

Apparently, "professional journalists" haven't learned shit in 15 years, because that's how long ago a small blog named the "Drudge Report" ran with a story that big powerful Newsweek (and other cherished "traditional media) shit-tanked: President Clinton's affair with Monica Lewinsky

And of course, there are other cases where blogs scoop newspapers (hell, even the National Enquirer got nominated for a Pulitzer for covering the John Edwards fiasco), but it is absolutely stunning and sad that the only defense Dave Murray came up with is "we're the 'real' media and they are not."

posted by oldhometown on Feb 14, 2013 at 04:06:55 pm     #   2 people liked this

As I have mentioned on a few blogs, including Jim Romensko's allegations that the Blade was "scooped" or "followed" or "sat on" the story are rubbish.

Dave Murray and Ryan Autullo were discussing this three weeks ago on Twitter

posted by paulhem on Feb 14, 2013 at 04:47:54 pm     #  

Regarding Dave Murray's comments, just in case you don't click on the links that jr provided:

Here is what The Atlantic Wire reported that Dave Murray wrote:

"We knew we were in competition with Deadspin for the story and could have published the story on Monday, but Ryan Autullo, our sports writer, hadn't confirmed a couple key facts so I made the decision to hold off until he was able to confirm on the record important parts of the story. We think it's important to use named sources whenever possible."

"My comments responding to a reader this morning were to explain why we used the name of the young woman who turned text messages from the coach over to the University of Toledo. My comments about Ryan Autullo being a professional journalist who uses named sources was meant to praise him, not 'diss' Deadspin and its reporters. I have no idea what their professional backgrounds are and I welcome their competition on this story."

Dave explained himself. Whether one embraces his explanation is up to the individual. It soed make it a more juicy story if Dave "dissed" someone.

I tried to provide Connor Simpson (Atlantic Wire) with the fact that The Blade was not scooped via a comment last night. It must be still waiting for moderation? However, that wouldn't fit into his "scooped" headline, would it?

It amazes me that these so-called "new media" outlets didn't bother to search a "new media" social communication tool like Twitter before making allegations That The Blade scooped. One would think that they would know how to use a search engine or learn how to search Twitter.

posted by paulhem on Feb 14, 2013 at 05:09:07 pm     #  

soed = does --- Is that dislexia?

posted by paulhem on Feb 14, 2013 at 05:11:01 pm     #  

Umm...ok. One extremely generic tweet on the 25th proves Dave & Ryan were on top of the whole thing.

And the digging was so intense Dave and Ryan didn't tweet very much about it until the Deadspin story caught you with your pants down and you had to respond. In fact, it looks like Dave's tweets were simply retweets of Ryan.

But, sure. Instead of "violated university policy" in Dave and Ryan's tweets, I should have read/inserted/inferred "banged his way through a number of nubile cross-country coeds whilst inferring if they didn't they wouldn't be in the 'in' crowd."

Because Dave & Ryan were on top of it and that's what I should have known they meant.

posted by oldhometown on Feb 14, 2013 at 05:20:04 pm     #   1 person liked this

Am I missing something? Who is Dave Murray saying "Keep digging" to? This is weird.

posted by Molsonator on Feb 14, 2013 at 05:24:32 pm     #  

"Umm...ok. One extremely generic tweet on the 25th proves Dave & Ryan were on top of the whole thing."

Jim Romenesko thought so... Along with emails.

If you click on the Romenesko link, you will see:

“As editor of a venerable, 175-year-old newspaper, it can be hard to lose a local story [emailers note the Blade has been on the story for some time; Byers has updated his post]"

Emphasis is mine.

But hey, whatever fits your narrative...

posted by paulhem on Feb 14, 2013 at 05:32:42 pm     #  

Molsonator: This was just a tiff between news outlets and news people that most everyone else could care less about.

In order to properly research this, you would need to read two stories - One of which is quite lengthy, then read all the blogs with comments. But, whatever works for you...

posted by paulhem on Feb 14, 2013 at 05:39:13 pm     #  

No thanks. I don't see why it matters.

posted by Molsonator on Feb 14, 2013 at 05:50:25 pm     #  

Keep slugging away, Paul.

Thanks for providing the quote where Murray admits he "los[t] a local story." Nobody cares who came in second and nobody liked the "me too!" kid growing up...both attitudes on display here.

Your boss's response was pathetic ("The difference between the coverage of this story by The Blade and Deadspin is that Autullo is a professional journalist who has named sources and you can believe what he reports") and his later "apology" for that statement half-hearted. Both signs of a sore loser.

But, keep blaming me and the "narrative."

posted by oldhometown on Feb 14, 2013 at 05:54:49 pm     #   2 people liked this

I don't think continued using of the word venerable to describe your paper, when I hear the word venerable I think of some old guy on his last legs that refuses to admit that hes past his prime and continues to try to do things he no longer has the stamina or strength to accomplish. Just saying.

posted by Linecrosser on Feb 14, 2013 at 06:12:49 pm     #  

I don't think its a good idea to use that word to describe your paper.

posted by Linecrosser on Feb 14, 2013 at 06:13:30 pm     #  

What oldhometown said, all of it. You got beat, in your own backyard. Everybody knows. Deal with it.

posted by hunkytownsausage on Feb 14, 2013 at 07:03:10 pm     #  

Does no one click and read? The quote was from Byers, the writer at Atlantic Wire. Not Dave.

So you deal with that. hunkytown

posted by paulhem on Feb 14, 2013 at 07:25:15 pm     #   1 person liked this

Does it matter why you delayed? No, you got scooped and are now trying the "No I shot you first" argument of an 8 year old.

posted by Linecrosser on Feb 14, 2013 at 07:56:35 pm     #  

linecrosser: it is not "delay" to get both if the subjects of the story on-the-record - As Dave Murray said: It is journalism. My experience with The Blade newsroom more than 15 years is: You better have people on-the-record! That means identified and quoted sources. Dave Murray took a beating because he followed the high standards of The Blade's journalism, as compared to an unidentified source that was used by the other source.

Dave might feel as though has he not demanded the highest standards of journalism, then The Blade story would have been out a day before.

The real issue here is what your expectations are, oldhometown and hunkeysauceage. My only concern is that The Blade might possibly be forced to your lower standard.

But... What do I know? I am not a journalist - just someone who toiled in the newsroom for 15-16 years.

posted by paulhem on Feb 14, 2013 at 10:09:03 pm     #  

Yawn.....

posted by hunkytownsausage on Feb 14, 2013 at 10:31:45 pm     #  

I get the whole professional pride thing but this has just devolved into a "mines bigger than yours" contest. I'm in the who cares camp. Read both stories, The Blade story first (Ha, The Blade scooped Deadspin on my news feed!) The story is interesting. I have a young daughter that might be involved in college athletics one day. I will keep an eagle eye on any coach from now on and talk to my daughter about how to handle any potential situation that might arise.
Other than that, I'm filing the pissing contest portion of this story under "Who gives a shit". The Blade and Deadspin can continue beating their chests about this allover the interwebs while another "new media" or "traditional media" source gets the next big story.

posted by TrilbyGuy on Feb 14, 2013 at 10:45:22 pm     #  

Trilbyguy: I agree... This is boring, like oldhometown wrote --- yawn :)

posted by paulhem on Feb 15, 2013 at 04:09:30 am     #  

hunkytownsausage posted at 09:31:45 PM on Feb 14, 2013:

Yawn.....

This is boring, like oldhometown wrote --- yawn :)

I said that?

posted by oldhometown on Feb 15, 2013 at 08:19:36 am     #   1 person liked this

Paul should have double checked his source. Maybe waited a while to post.

posted by Molsonator on Feb 15, 2013 at 08:31:39 am     #   3 people liked this

One person's boring is another person's interest. If disinterested, then simply ignore it and move on. Why spout about it? Since I follow news about media, I find it interesting. Therefore, any more "news" about the news and this asshole coach will be posted here.

Runner's World/Running Times post about the UT coach and coaches in general.

http://www.runnersworld.com/elite-runners/twisted-trust

posted by jr on Feb 15, 2013 at 08:40:48 am     #  

The real issue here is what your expectations are, oldhometown and hunkeysauceage.

Not pissing and moaning about competitors who aren't "real" journalists would be a start.

Covering local news (especially political) without a blatant, in-your-face, JRB-destroys-enemies-of-his-ideas slant would be another broad area.

My only concern is that The Blade might possibly be forced to your lower standard.

My "lower standard" would be a step up in many cases.

Isn't there a courthouse being torn down somewhere that deserves breaking news coverage just about now?

posted by oldhometown on Feb 15, 2013 at 11:21:40 am     #  

"My only concern is that The Blade might possibly be forced to your lower standard"

Wow, you mean lower standards exist? The Blade as directed by JRB already practices selective journalism - um, scratch that - selective reporting (they ceased practicing journalism long ago); yellow journalism and uses his poison pen to destroy anyone he deems stands in his way or disagrees with him.

The Blade lost all credibility with me years ago. It's a waste of trees - and, more recently, bandwidth.

posted by Foodie on Feb 15, 2013 at 11:53:23 am     #  

Thank god Tom Noe paid his water bill....

posted by Molsonator on Feb 15, 2013 at 12:38:18 pm     #   2 people liked this

^^Too bad some on city council haven't..........

Wonder how many of us among the hoi polloi could get away with owing hundreds for our water bill and still have something come out of the faucet?

posted by Foodie on Feb 15, 2013 at 02:14:06 pm     #  

oldhometown: Obviously you have no interest in discussing this without ranting about how much you hate The Blade. Let me make this simple.

UT coach story...

Blade: 2 on-the-record interviews

Deadspin: One anonymous source

The issue here is not about The Blade. The issue is whether so-called "new media" is allowed lower standards than traditional media. In this case, it seems to me because some contributors here have issues with The Blade, that the over-riding concern of what this means to the future of news is lost. What really scares me is that the overall trustworthiness and integrity of all media ( including radio OHT) is being damaged by a mentality of who gets the story online first - not accuracy.

I get that you do not like (or do hate) the local newspaper. You and others make that clear very frequently on this message board. So frequently, that I suspect you have a keyboard macro that sprays out the text when you press a shortcut key combination.

This is indeed a macro issue. Dave Murray is defending the standard. My wife requires 3 on-the-record sources for stories her students at UT submit to her for grading, or she takes off one letter grade. So, that is the standard I am exposed to.

So, the fact that my friend Dave Murray has been beaten up because he answered a question on Twitter, with a 140 character limit, defending those standards shocked me. I like that he made clear his standard for "real journalists." Dave is figting the good fight. I pray he can continue to do so.

posted by paulhem on Feb 15, 2013 at 03:13:58 pm     #  

The interest in "scooping" everyone can lead to rampant misinformation, like we saw with the Sandy Hook Elementary murders.

posted by researcher on Feb 15, 2013 at 03:36:54 pm     #  

Uh, paulhem? Type "Toledo Blade" and "unidentified source" into Google and see what turns up for Blade stories. Please stop trying to imply that the Toledo Blade never uses anonymous sources. As I am sure that you know, many sources face peril if they go public. As a journalist I had to make use of anonymous sources on any number of stories where people did not feel safe to speak out.

Also, while the Deadspin story made use of anonymous sources, it was clear that they had access to evidence that was quite compelling (text messages). Finally: please stop implying that the use of anonymous sources somehow violates journalistic standards; as you well know, this is covered at length in the Code of Ethics for the Society of Professional Journalists, and the practice is widely accepted.

I know you want to support your employer by posting here on this topic, but dude: give it a rest.

posted by historymike on Feb 15, 2013 at 04:13:16 pm     #  

What really scares me is that the overall trustworthiness and integrity of all media ( including radio OHT) is being damaged by a mentality of who gets the story online first - not accuracy.

The integrity of all media is undermined by people who kingly preside in businesses thought once unassailable, yet now are showing glaring vulnerability. When once there was only one, now there are others. You don't like the way they do business--OK, fine. I get it. But, gotta tell you...sites like TMZ, Drudge, and Deadspin are becoming reliable sources of information for being more right than wrong in a lot of cases (not to mention, newspapers run corrections too).

In an instant world, being first is going to be king--and you'd better learn to compete, or change the motto to "yesterday's news tomorrow" and get it over with.

I get that you do not like (or do hate) the local newspaper. You and others make that clear very frequently on this message board. So frequently, that I suspect you have a keyboard macro that sprays out the text when you press a shortcut key combination.

Sounds like you really want to have a conversation too...

In other threads, you claim to want to listen to people about the new web app, tech stuff, this 'n' that. My "hatred" has been critical of the content. The newswire overdependence. The fluff stories that seem to make the front page. The blatant softballs to people the Blade likes politically and the hard-ass attitude to people they don't.

My criticisms are hatred--no. They are the valid criticisms many people (former subscribers) think. I don't trust the Blade. That's a fair statement. They have lost my trust.

posted by oldhometown on Feb 15, 2013 at 04:14:58 pm     #   7 people liked this

Dan Rather didn't do the mass media any favors when he ran with his gut trying to "get" Bush with his faked documents, even after being warned they were faked.

posted by Linecrosser on Feb 15, 2013 at 04:55:46 pm     #  

OHT: Roger, The Blade list your trust... I hear you and do, in fact, regret that you feel that way. Each person in this community is important and so are their views.

historymike - I was not discussing ethics . Here are the standards the NYTimes uses for anonymous sources:

"In routine interviewing – that is, most of the interviewing we do – anonymity must not be automatic or an assumed condition. In that kind of reporting, anonymity should not be offered to a source. Exceptions will occur in the reporting of highly sensitive stories, when it is we who have sought out a source who may face legal jeopardy or loss of livelihood for speaking with us."

Since the young woman was no longer either under the coaches authority and felt safe enough to give her name to the Blade, then that is the standard. The fact that The Blade waited until they had her on the record before publishing several hours later means that the standards if accuracy were met by The Blade.

The discussion here was that not only did the Deadspin story offer more detail, but one person claimed that it was better because the story had more detail. Yes, the Deadspin story was much more entertaining. The top graphic would not work for The Blade's audience because of the liberal use of the eff-bomb.

In practice, most "traditional" news sources are legally the public record. If so-called "new media" intends to become the public record, then they should be held to the same standard.

HM, I know that you are a professor at UT. Why don't you check with them and ask why the Communication Department maintains those standards.

And yes, I am defending my employer. I am also defending reporting standards that if allowed to erode will hurt the public.

posted by paulhem on Feb 15, 2013 at 05:28:09 pm     #  

Sorry for the typos I'm using my iPhone. You wouldn't believe some of the weird auto-correct words I had to fix. :)

posted by paulhem on Feb 15, 2013 at 05:30:46 pm     #  

PaulHem:

1. Your information about my employer is incorrect.
2. I am noting that you did not address the issue I raised that the Toledo Blade is more than willing to use anonymous sources on stories, and I bet I could find 100 Blade stories in an hour or two that have used anonymous sources. You would be a fool to take that bet, sir.
3. Neither you nor I know the full chronology of the events that led to the two competing stories. It is safe to assume that someone started providing news outlets with information shortly after the coach's late January resignation. It is possible that the source was unwilling to go public at an earlier date, but then was convinced, cajoled, or voluntarily chose to go public later to the Blade. Heck, for all we know someone at the Blade might have said: "Look: Deadspin is going to run this, so you may as well go forward and get some control over how you are portrayed." It would not be the first time reluctant sources have changed their minds.
4. Even if I did work at UT, you are not comparing apples to apples. A communications department is not in the business of scooping other entities, at least not in the sense that newspapers and other commercial media outlets are.
5. Quit blaming new media for the obsession for being first with a story: that shite has been going on at least since William Randolph Hearst was wet behind his metaphorical ears.
6. Also: your efforts to label as Blade-hating any criticism of the paper are tiresome. Most folks do not "hate" the Toledo Blade, and criticism does not constitute "hate." I advise developing a thicker skin, though in my several dealings with Blade administrators on a handful of stories that examined the Blade, all of my dealings reflected this sort of insulated group-mind that was eerily reminiscent of the Borg.

Full disclosure: I have been both threatened with and named in lawsuits by the Toledo Blade over the years during my former career in journalism, and I know from personal experience how vindictive and petty Blade execs can be. Perhaps you are too close to them, or perhaps your public role will not allow you to comment. Or, perhaps you have been assimilated.

:-)

posted by historymike on Feb 15, 2013 at 06:14:48 pm     #   6 people liked this

Gee HM... My wife teaches journalism, even has a masters in it from MSU. Additionally, she had the same debate about this with students who brought up how they really liked the Deadspin story and didn't like the Blade story. As a journalist, she is outraged with the crap Mr. Murray had to take because it leads to the end of thorough journalism.

Also, I could care less how Ryan Autullo got the young lady to go on-the-record. The Blade would not have published the story without on-the-record sources.

historymike: Today's news is tomorrow's history. When you research items how thorough would you want the news sources that you use for your history dissertations?

There are people denying that the Holocaust took place. When should we demand thorough reporting? After everyone involved has passed away? I am shocked that you, holding a Phd in history would not be demanding even more strict use of sources.

Are there times stories should be published when sources are not available? Yes. Look at the excerpt from the New York Times standards that I put into my post above. Quite frankly, I am not interested in debating with you which Blade stories should have had sources versus which should not. Neither you nor I are trained journalists.

You are an academic. Ask your Communication Department at UT, don't debate with me.

HM: I will refrain to use the word hate when referring to your view of The Blade.

Good luck with the lawsuits.

posted by paulhem on Feb 15, 2013 at 07:43:41 pm     #  

"A communications department is not in the business of scooping other entities, at least not in the sense that newspapers and other commercial media outlets are." Hard to disagree with that...

The UT Communication department teaches news writing. You are correct. THEY do not have an interest in scooping others. They are interested in teaching reporting skills to students. Just like a history department isn't interested in creating ancient history. They tech students how to learn it.

posted by paulhem on Feb 15, 2013 at 08:00:44 pm     #  

tech = teach

posted by paulhem on Feb 15, 2013 at 08:01:24 pm     #  

Just... wow. I am not sure whether to laugh or feel sorry for you, paulhem.

1. I never thought this thread would devolve into Godwin's Law, but here we are.
2. I am blown away by your effort to connect journalists using anonymous sources with Holocaust denial. Amazing straw man, though.
3. Note to everyone not named paulhem: notice how when I bothered to take a moment to criticize the Blade, paulhem saw fit to attack my credentials as a historian (and in a very serious/insulting way, suggesting I am blasé about the Holocaust). Almost on cue we see the group-mind at work: attack and smear anyone who is a threat. Kind of creepy, that.
4. Not to worry about lawsuits: that is old stuff (2006-ish) and unlike some folks at the Blade, I don't hold grudges.
5. Kudos to your wife for teaching journalism; I am sure she does excellent work.
6. ^^ See how easy it is to be civil?

posted by historymike on Feb 15, 2013 at 08:43:07 pm     #  

And since you apparently refuse to read, I do not work at UT. Perhaps you are so stuck in "Angry Defender of the Blade" mode that you keep missing this.

posted by historymike on Feb 15, 2013 at 08:45:45 pm     #   2 people liked this

historymike posted at 07:45:45 PM on Feb 15, 2013:

And since you apparently refuse to read, I do not work at UT. Perhaps you are so stuck in "Angry Defender of the Blade" mode that you keep missing this.

Formerly Toledo University.

posted by Linecrosser on Feb 15, 2013 at 09:12:23 pm     #   1 person liked this

I agree - wow is right! How did you get out of what I wrote that you were blase' about the Holocaust? I used that as an example. Nor did I intend to infer that you were not a very competent historian. I am attempting to have a conversation with you. If I insulted you in anyway, please accept my explanation that it was an to attempt to clarify the topic for others reading the thread.

I checked your LinkedIn profile. Perhaps you might have posted something about the "UT writing center" that I saw on your blog or another one?

You are listed as a Lecturer / Graduate Coordinator at Bowling Green State University OK, another good source for your research into news sources - they offer a journalism major there.

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/michael-brooks/4/399/385

Frankly, Mike, maybe this is a topic your and I will never agree on because of our divergent experiences with The Blade.

posted by paulhem on Feb 15, 2013 at 09:19:40 pm     #  

Another thing you seemed to miss: while I do not possess a journalism degree, I worked as a journalist for eight years. You can carry on, though, with the ad hominem attacks. Nice touch in disclosing on a public message board the personal info you dug up on me, BTW: keep it classy, brother!

posted by historymike on Feb 15, 2013 at 09:30:56 pm     #  

Is information that you published on LinkedIn really "digging up?"

Here's mine. http://www.linkedin.com/in/paulhem

Would an ad hominem attack be comparing me to the Borg, perhaps? I didn't take offense - just wondering what the rules are.

I didn't realize that I attributed a journalism degree to you. I know you hold a Phd in history. I am impressed by all the very difficult times you had achieving that, Mike. I am impressed with the fact that you have a Phd of any kind. It isn't easy and you deserve respect for that achievement!

I tend to read what you write on your blog and others. So, you could say that i am kind of a fan. I honestly did not realize that I had insulted you.

Sorry. I was hoping we could meet somewhere and have a cup of joe or a beer whatever. I think that you are an interesting guy. Is that now out of the question? Seriously...

posted by paulhem on Feb 15, 2013 at 10:05:22 pm     #   1 person liked this

just an fyi, if you have a linkedin account and click on someone else's account, they may be able to see that you've looked at it

i hope you two weirdos can get a beer and become friends

posted by nits on Feb 15, 2013 at 10:24:19 pm     #   6 people liked this

Sigh.

posted by Nolan_Rosenkrans on Feb 16, 2013 at 02:01:32 pm     #  

After watching this there won't be a dry lip in the house.

http://www.northwestohio.com/sports/video.aspx#.USAdiPItepZ

posted by Molsonator on Feb 16, 2013 at 08:04:32 pm     #  

Since news about news is cool on TT...

Talking about sports writing...

The Blade's sports writer, Dave Briggs, is in the the Associated Press Sports Editors Top 10 for beat writing in the 75,001-175,000 circulation category.

posted by paulhem on Feb 18, 2013 at 03:41:09 pm     #  

Freaking pathetic.

JRB called, he said your not helping.

posted by justread on Feb 18, 2013 at 04:36:49 pm     #   2 people liked this

He may have said "you're not helping."

posted by justread on Feb 18, 2013 at 04:37:21 pm     #  

We all know where you stand, justread.

http://www.toledotalk.com/cgi-bin/tt.pl/article/133358#133521

Thank you for your in-depth analysis of my post. High quality contribution...

posted by paulhem on Feb 18, 2013 at 06:33:43 pm     #  

Well I need to find a decent daily Sodoku, probably use AARP's crossword and good online spot for comics and we can go ahead and cancel our Blade subscription. Watching channel 11 or 13 gives me just about anything else worth reading in the Blade. Tell me again how The Blade is still relevant in today's market?

posted by Linecrosser on Feb 18, 2013 at 07:00:03 pm     #  

"Watching channel 11 or 13 gives me just about anything else worth reading in the Blade. Tell me again how The Blade is still relevant in today's market?"

And as I mentioned in this earlier thread.

My friend Ken Rosenbaum asks: "What Toledo television station includes all the local obituaries, local store coupons, local sports news and box scores, schedules of local senior events, all fun activities in northwest Ohio, local crime logs, local financial news, local restaurant reviews, details of meetings of area city and village councils, local zoning board news, local political developments and shenanigans, local store ads and sales, local viewers' responses such as letters to the editor, etc. Please advise so I can tune in."

posted by paulhem on Feb 18, 2013 at 07:17:54 pm     #  

Linecrosser posted at 06:00:03 PM on Feb 18, 2013:

Well I need to find a decent daily Sodoku, probably use AARP's crossword and good online spot for comics and we can go ahead and cancel our Blade subscription. Watching channel 11 or 13 gives me just about anything else worth reading in the Blade. Tell me again how The Blade is still relevant in today's market?

Well, it's sure relevant on TT. You people can't stop talking about it

posted by researcher on Feb 18, 2013 at 07:26:31 pm     #  

As long as I'm not dead who cared?
Coupons.com
Radio for sports, ESPN.com
Again Internet for financial news
Yelp.com for restaurants
WSPD covers local and area city council meetings
A lot of local stores have a web site
TT gives lots of responses and posts about Toledo
You do have all of that in 1 location but remember it is about 12 hours old too by the time readers get it. Some of the rest might be found on other websites. The paper is fading as a one and only source, slowly but surely you will become completely obsolete. I applaud that you are trying to jump to the new age media, time will tell if its a success. I think some of what is happening is like the dying of an ancient magnate that has enjoyed his control of his empire for so long he has no way to come to grips with the fact it is fading away from him, either by death or by progress.

posted by Linecrosser on Feb 18, 2013 at 07:34:43 pm     #  

Paul- Matt Markey's piece Sunday on Ted Nugent was good. I find myself reading more and more of his articles.

posted by Molsonator on Feb 18, 2013 at 08:29:42 pm     #  

Matt is a great writer. I'll let him know that you liked it.

Thanks Molsonator!

posted by paulhem on Feb 18, 2013 at 09:00:19 pm     #  

paulhem posted at 05:33:43 PM on Feb 18, 2013:

We all know where you stand, justread.

http://www.toledotalk.com/cgi-bin/tt.pl/article/133358#133521

Thank you for your in-depth analysis of my post. High quality contribution...

Diversion says what?

If you didn't care for the two-word analysis of the tragic comedy displayed in this thread, I am sure that you don't really want the in-depth one.

posted by justread on Feb 18, 2013 at 10:11:55 pm     #  

Catching up after being away for a while.

Feb 15, 2013 Toledo Blade opinion by sports writer Dave Hackenberg

The truth always comes out, especially in this age of social media and open-records laws. Why schools and other entities clam up and circle the wagons, like the University of Toledo did in the recent case involving track and field/cross country director Kevin Hadsell, instead of simply coming clean always amazes me. What UT’s typical approach – you might have thought it would have learned from the Gene Cross saga — invited was investigations by newspapers and Internet sites and, boy, did it get one of each.


Feb 13, 2013 - Romenesko - Why newspaper sports journalists don't like Deadspin :

Deadspin really breaks the unspoken, but long-standing tradition that sports reporters only cover what goes on between the lines.

I suspect that it has more than a little to do with the relationship between the sports departments and the institutions they cover. Sports reporters are totally dependent on those institutions for credentials and access.

So, sports reporters and editors are willing to put up with rules and restrictions that no other journalists would tolerate….and a lot of those rules are unwritten.


Feb 15, 2013 - AwfulAnnouncing.com story :

How has Deadspin been able to beat local and mainstream outlets on significant news stories? Tim Burke, who co-authored the Te’o story with Jack Dickey, told me, “I think we've become the prominent site publishing investigative work outside the sports mainstream, so it's natural people looking to leak information about something come to us first.”

Since [Deadspin] is not a “traditional” news outlet, the writers do not have the same restrictions when it comes to posting. The site does not restrict its coverage out of fear of offending people– and because of this, they can get more granular, including things that local papers will clearly leave out.

Being an older newspaper, the Blade decided it had traditional standards to maintain, not only printing the coach’s denial, but leaving out the incriminating texts that Deadspin included and getting certain elements of the story on the [record].

Brown’s story [Deadspin] was worlds different than Autullo’s [Blade]. Brown didn’t start by waxing poetical nonsense about Hadsell’s good deeds of caring for his sister’s children while she struggled with alcoholism. Brown’s picture of the situation was much more cutting than the Blade’s. He paints a much uglier picture of Hadsell being an alcoholic himself, blackmailing athletes into staying on the team, forcing them to run when they didn’t want to, being responsible for a number of eating disorders, and being an overall bully in general. We can only assume Autullo was forced to hold back on reporting certain things for whatever reason.

Because of their presence outside the mainstream and their ability to go where newspapers and networks won't, Deadspin is better equipped to break some of these stories and beat local outlets. As Burke told me in an e-mail:

"Doug Brown is simply a better reporter than anybody they have at the Toledo Blade. They can say whatever they want to about "professional journalists," we're fortunate to have the readership to be able to support a small but highly-skilled staff. And I say that as somebody who is from the Toledo area and read the paper daily for ten years.

I'd say any news organization that is based in and covers a region will never be able to adequately cover investigative news in that region because of the conflicts of interest that naturally reside at the nexus of where you live and where you work. Because Deadspin is, basically, nowhere (yes our offices are in NYC but neither I nor Doug nor my Te'o co-writer Jack Dickey live there, at least not officially) and we are not at a constant grind for future access we have more flexibility for coverage of these things."


The author of the Deadspin story is Doug Brown.

Brown's Twitter profile says:

Journalism outsider. @Deadspin guy. 24. Ann Arbor native. Finishing up graduate J-school at Kent State.


The runner featured anonymously in the Deadspin story and mentioned in the Blade story is Emma Kertesz. She graduated from Toledo Central Catholic High School. She recently left UT to be a professional runner.

Feb 4, 2013 - Toledo Blade - All-American Kertesz leaving UT to turn pro - "Central Catholic graduate skipping senior track season"

Feb 5, 2013 - Independent Collegian - Emma Kertesz leaves University of Toledo to turn professional

From the Collegian story:

Hadsell’s departure played a big role in her decision.

"[He] was a major part of why I became so good," Kertesz said. "For him to not be there anymore was definitely a factor."

Kertesz arrived at Toledo barely breaking the 19-minute mark on the 5K. Her personal best now stands at 16:35 in that event and 33:28 in the 10K.

She graduated in May of 2012 with a history degree and used up her cross country eligibility, but was still able to compete one more year on the track circuit.

The Toledo native dominated the Mid-American Conference during her career and competed in some Team USA events.

Kertesz said the decision to leave was difficult, but had been planning on running for Hansons-Brooks after her college days were over.

"This is definitely something that I’ve wanted to do before he even resigned," she said. "It was hard, but it was kind of like, 'OK, I'm just doing it a little bit sooner than I planned originally.'"

She lives with two teammates and will focus on the 5K all the way up to half-marathons. The team is funded by Kevin and Keith Hanson who own four running shops in the area. They also sponsor the U.S. Olympic Development Team.

From the Blade story:

Kertesz, who is recovering from a bout with plantar fasciitis that excluded her participation in Toledo’s indoor season, will soon turn her attention to track and to road races.

In November, Kertesz helped Team USA to a third-place finish in the International Chiba Ekiden in Japan, a marathon broken up into six stages involving three women and three men from 15 countries.

Kertesz’s new teammates at Hansons-Brooks include a runner-up female finisher at the Boston Marathon and an eight-time NCAA Division II champion.


http://www.hansons-running.com

Feb 3, 2013 - Hansons-Running.com - Hansons-Brooks Welcomes Emma Kertesz

Kertesz’ consistent improvement deems her a great fit for the Hansons-Brooks team. “I want to continue to develop as an elite athlete and be competitive in the professional scene,” said Kertesz, on her goals as a Hansons elite, “and hopefully run PR’s I would not have thought fathomable.”

The Hanson’s-Brooks Distance Project offers year-round group training in a laid back environment. The full sponsorship includes housing, health insurance, Brooks® Running gear (apparel, shoes, etc.), coaching and agent services, travel, performance bonuses, and a multitude of medical services, including massage and physical therapy treatments, all at no cost to the athletes.

posted by jr on Feb 21, 2013 at 09:54:01 pm     #  

I suspect that it has more than a little to do with the relationship between the sports departments and the institutions they cover. Sports reporters are totally dependent on those institutions for credentials and access.

Naaahhhh....that can't possibly be. I was just berated that this kind of thing couldn't happen with all those "standards" in place.

So, sports reporters and editors are willing to put up with rules and restrictions that no other journalists would tolerate

This I disagree with. Political "journalists" turn into stenographers with puffball questions quite easily when they want access, especially to people they agree with politically. It's an industry-wide illness, not endemic to only sports.

The only useful press is an adversarial press to those persons or institutions with power. Otherwise, you may as well just read press releases for free.

posted by oldhometown on Feb 22, 2013 at 11:22:10 am     #  

I love the fact that this is not only about the coaches lewd acts and remarks but how it is being covered by the Blade and Deadspin. With so many sub plots, this is like Tom Clancy on Estrogen!

posted by Molsonator on Feb 23, 2013 at 09:49:03 am     #