Toledo Talk

Rich Blocks, Poor Blocks - Income/Rent Map for Entire US

Found this on another site and thought it was really interesting.

http://www.richblockspoorblocks.com/

You can view maps (entire state at a time) that shows Income levels and Rent levels.

created by JustaSooner on Feb 15, 2013 at 05:19:57 pm     Politics     Comments: 135

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Comments ... #

Nice! Thanks for posting.

posted by viola on Feb 15, 2013 at 06:59:12 pm     #  

If it would load, I'll bet it would be pretty cool.

posted by justread on Feb 16, 2013 at 02:19:11 pm     #  

I can't get it to load either

posted by shamrock44 on Feb 16, 2013 at 04:30:38 pm     #  

I had no issues. Not there we're taking a poll or anything.

posted by OnePlainPerson on Feb 16, 2013 at 04:41:08 pm     #  

It loads now. And it's pretty cool.

posted by justread on Feb 16, 2013 at 04:54:24 pm     #  

Nice program. Wonder if they will add additional features to it as time progress.

posted by EvilFoodie on Feb 17, 2013 at 09:07:55 pm     #  

The elephant in the room when you look at neighborhoods by income is that the poorest areas are the ones with the highest minority population. After decades of "urban renewal" and taxpayers sinking billions of dollars into government programs, these neighborhoods never get better. Obviously, nothing is going to change until those populations decide it's time to stop having babies they can't afford, stop taking drugs, and start valuing education.

I am one taxpayer who no longer wants to be forced to pay for people's failures.

posted by Elva on Feb 17, 2013 at 09:52:06 pm     #   3 people liked this

well THAT took long enough!

posted by upso on Feb 17, 2013 at 10:14:49 pm     #   4 people liked this

Hum. So all those low income areas are minorities that have too many babies and take drugs all the time?

You may not want to pay for other's failures, but why do we have to pay for your parent's failure to not pollute the gene pool? /sigh

posted by JustaSooner on Feb 17, 2013 at 11:33:58 pm     #   8 people liked this

Good news JustaSooner--you're not paying for anything of mine! My parents produced an educated, 6-figure income individual.

Now, did you have any constructive data to prove my statements aren't true? Have you driven through the areas of Toledo that the site indicates are low-income areas? What do you see? Have you looked at the racial demographics for the schools in that area?

I do commend you for your head-in-the-sand, bleeding-heart feelings, but this is fact-based and not emotional.

posted by Elva on Feb 18, 2013 at 12:08:41 am     #   2 people liked this

Educated clearly does not equal smart

posted by nits on Feb 18, 2013 at 12:29:19 am     #   9 people liked this

Oh...bless your heart.

They might have produced an educated, 6-figure income person...but they sure fell short when it comes to producing a person who isn't stuck in a world of entitlement when it comes to comparing themselves to others. So while the payment may not be of the monetary fashion, rest assured we are still paying for the rest of you. That's alright though, not all of us need to look at our paychecks to make ourselves feel good.

Your statements brushed such a wide stroke of stereotypical perceptions, so it really worth anyone's time to make you look even more like yesterday's bowl movement than you currently do? I do at least have some sort of charity in my personality, whereas yours apparently is barren.

Have I driven through those areas? Try I went to school in one of those neighborhoods. What did I see? A bunch of traditional and historic neighborhoods forgotten by the rest of the city as people continued to sprawl out to the burbs. I saw neighborhoods just left to rot as people didn't give a second thought to how important those areas are to a city. Have I looked at racial demographics? Why would I need to? You know at some point in your life, you will start to get past the color of someone's skin and move on to looking at other reasons for why a person is in their situation.

It is pretty unusual to see someone be perfect happy and open with being blatantly racist, which is a word I hate to use. It also saddens me that someone who claims to be educated (though you didn't say well), would have such a viewpoint. While I may have my head in the sand, at least I don't have it shoved up my ass. :)

It is pretty interesting though how you quickly turned this into a discussion on race, instead of the data being presented. You mock urban renewal, yet where I live now it is thriving. Old run down downtown, central city, neighborhoods are being restored with massive new (high density) residential developments being built. All this in neighborhoods much like those you are pointing out. While the demographics are going to be a bit different down here (admittedly we aren't as ethnically diverse) , these areas probably share a very similar blend of ethnic backgrounds.

Hopefully we can see someone who has the drive, passion, and funds to move in and start pushing redevelopment in those core areas. Perhaps that would be something you could even look into? I mean you have all this money on your massive (irrelevant?) 6-figure income to invest in the Packers and pay $50 for a brunch buffet. Surely you, being a shrewd investor and wise with your money, would be able to help contribute to revitalizing some of their core neighborhoods that need reinvestment?

posted by JustaSooner on Feb 18, 2013 at 12:37:26 am     #   10 people liked this

nits posted at 11:29:19 PM on Feb 17, 2013:

Educated clearly does not equal smart

If you notice, they never typed "Well educated". ;)

posted by JustaSooner on Feb 18, 2013 at 12:38:15 am     #  

I'll take the contrarian view for a moment and ask why a poster is demonized for speaking of success. If she spoke of poor financial issues, even monetary concerns that were admittedly self-inflicted through poor behavior and choices this poster might be well received. But she speaks of success and those comments ignite a firestorm. Why is it that when anyone speaks of success people jump to “drop them down a peg” and attack them personally? Is it a crime to be successful but an asset to have self-inflicted woes?

We are living in a time when many people are feeling jaded because their work efforts and sacrifices are going to pay for other people's behavioral choices and this seems to be the message I am reading. Call it reverse slavery - working for the benefit of others. No man or woman should be under such chains no matter what color they are.

As far as Elva’s initial commentary concerning racial components of these neighborhoods and behavioral characteristics that lead to poverty I would rather see posters attack these suggestions with data to dispute Elva’s assertions instead of instantly labeling her a racist. Maybe Elva, after mending her scratches would like to provide data to back up her initial suggestions.

I love watching me a good fight!

posted by Danneskjold on Feb 18, 2013 at 02:07:39 am     #   3 people liked this

Oh I'm not demonizing her success at all. Trust me I have no weight in that discussion. I'm more so focused on the unfounded elitist attitude some feel they need to hold over others. It is great to be successful and make lots of money, however there isn't any need to rub in anyone's face. I live quite comfortably, but I'm not one to flash it in front of people to make myself look (maybe feel if I were really that shallow and empty inside) better against others.

I'm definitely no fan of people that just take advantage of the system. However, I don't fault people who rightful get access to it to get through a rough/unique situation. I've always advocated that if you are taking government assistance (outside of short term unemployment) you should be required to do 20-40 hours a week of work for the government. Whether it is picking up trash, mowing the grass, filling pot holes, answering the phones, etc...you aren't dead weight. You are earning your pay until you have found a replacement position and gaining skills at the same time.

I hesitated a good bit until I put the word racist in there. I don't like that word, and I don't like labeling anyone with it. However, the comments posted can't be viewed any other way with the prejudging and stereotyping that was blatant. If it went too far, I'll apologize for that, but it seemed textbook in this case.

I agree with you that we need to get this discussion back on to the data itself. What exactly is going on in these neighborhoods and how to address them. Some would say what is the point on an internet message board. Down here our local online forum has around 10,000 registered users including many local (govt and business) leaders. Policy is influenced and good, quality discussion is put forward to help direct anything from downtown developments to road conditions/construction.

posted by JustaSooner on Feb 18, 2013 at 02:47:00 am     #   7 people liked this

I don't have a dog in this fight, but I would say that the comment regarding a six figure income could be relevant outside of other terrible re-contextualizations on a thread about the distribution of income.

posted by justread on Feb 18, 2013 at 07:14:40 am     #  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_lowest-income_counties_in_the_United_States

Here's a list of the lowest income counties in the US. The top poorest counties are primarily Native Americans. Are they getting a lot of "urban renewal" money in the Dakotas?

#3 is Starr County, TX. It's 88% white.

The first primarily African-American county I noticed was East Carroll Parish, LA at #15.

posted by researcher on Feb 18, 2013 at 09:04:31 am     #   2 people liked this

I question the validity of the map. I live in the Ragan Woods neighborhood and it shows the median household income being around $40-50k (hard to tell exactly), but this area is well above that. I have 3 doctors living within 4 houses of me, I’m pretty sure they make more than $50 per year. I also have more than a few “minorities” around me too and their all “educated” and drug free as far as know.

posted by SensorG on Feb 18, 2013 at 11:14:07 am     #   1 person liked this

I think these comments are a very interesting comparison to today's politically correct sensitivies.

If you notice in my initial post, I talked about "minorities"--never mentioning skin color. It prompted additional posts about how some of the poorest regions are inhabited by Native Americans. Aren't they "minorities"? Isn't it interesting how people (I'm guessing the majority of whom are white) read into my statement that it was only referring to blacks. Geez--it seems racist to minimalize other minorities or to automatically assume drug use and babies born into poor households are only experienced in black communities.

It reminds me of how oftentimes whites feel the need to preface their comments about blacks by saying "Some of my best friends are black." Seems demeaning to me.

Regarding my income, I am very happy with the lifestyle that my hard work and education have afforded me. I wish that every person would work to attain the financial position that I have achieved. It's great!

posted by Elva on Feb 18, 2013 at 12:37:35 pm     #   1 person liked this

I think anyone who uses "politically correct" is a complete imbecile.

Did anyone here say or imply Native Americans were not minorities, except Elva? They were mentioned in a statement of complete fact and then referenced in relation to one of Elva's ignorant comments.

posted by researcher on Feb 18, 2013 at 01:12:09 pm     #   2 people liked this

Funny that Elva ignored the obvious point, however: based on the list of lowest income counties, the poorest areas aren't always the highest minority population. That's what Elva implied.

That has nothing to do with the racist code words, which I've ignored.

posted by researcher on Feb 18, 2013 at 01:17:40 pm     #   2 people liked this

SensorG posted at 10:14:07 AM on Feb 18, 2013:

I question the validity of the map. I live in the Ragan Woods neighborhood and it shows the median household income being around $40-50k (hard to tell exactly), but this area is well above that. I have 3 doctors living within 4 houses of me, I’m pretty sure they make more than $50 per year. I also have more than a few “minorities” around me too and their all “educated” and drug free as far as know.

It doesn't take that many to lower the average down, could only take about 20 homes with an income of 30k a year to bring down those 4 houses with 50k a year incomes. That map says its based on census data and I think that would make it pretty accurate.

posted by Linecrosser on Feb 18, 2013 at 01:29:46 pm     #  

With a blog name like "researcher," one might assume some foundational understanding of the manipulation of data. I'm going to assist with some basic concepts.

According to the U.S Census Bureau, 54% of minorities are designated as living in poverty and 38% of whites fall into that category. It affirms the accuracy of my initial statement that "the poorest areas are the ones with the highest minority population."

P.S. "Researcher": You may want to re-read your post:

"Here's a list of the lowest income counties in the US. The top poorest counties are primarily Native Americans. Are they getting a lot of "urban renewal" money in the Dakotas?

#3 is Starr County, TX. It's 88% white.

The first primarily African-American county I noticed was East Carroll Parish, LA at #15."

Keeping in mind that I never mentioned "African Americans," but said "minorities" in my original post, it's obvious that you were thinking only of blacks (reference your #15 comment).

posted by Elva on Feb 18, 2013 at 01:57:49 pm     #   2 people liked this

If you didn't mean African Americans when you said minorities, who were you referring to when you? You certainly weren’t talking about Native Americans. Stop trying to back track and falsely parse your words, you’re a bigot; you got called on it; accept it and move on.

posted by SensorG on Feb 18, 2013 at 02:14:49 pm     #   6 people liked this

Remember when "bigot" and "racist" actually meant something? You know, before the liberals starting tossing it around about anyone who opposed Obama.

posted by Elva on Feb 18, 2013 at 02:43:32 pm     #   2 people liked this

SensorG posted at 10:14:07 AM on Feb 18, 2013:

I question the validity of the map. I live in the Ragan Woods neighborhood and it shows the median household income being around $40-50k (hard to tell exactly), but this area is well above that. I have 3 doctors living within 4 houses of me, I’m pretty sure they make more than $50 per year. I also have more than a few “minorities” around me too and their all “educated” and drug free as far as know.

Looks like the blocks are grouped by Census Tracts.

Perhaps Ragan Woods is in the same Census Tract as some of the surrounding apartments and/or condos?

posted by mom2 on Feb 18, 2013 at 03:09:27 pm     #  

Elva posted at 01:43:32 PM on Feb 18, 2013:

Remember when "bigot" and "racist" actually meant something? You know, before the liberals starting tossing it around about anyone who opposed Obama.

What does Obama have to do with this conversation? Answer the question… If you didn't mean African Americans when you said minorities, who were you referring to when you?

posted by SensorG on Feb 18, 2013 at 03:18:20 pm     #  

SensorG - I found a breakdown of the households within Census Tract 72.04 on the Census.gov website.

Looks like the income for the Ragan Woods census tract breaks down as follows:

INCOME AND BENEFITS (IN 2011 INFLATION-ADJUSTED DOLLARS)

Total households - 2,207

Less than $10,000 - 187

$10,000 to $14,999 - 154

$15,000 to $24,999 - 272

$25,000 to $34,999 - 413

$35,000 to $49,999 - 281

$50,000 to $74,999 - 425

$75,000 to $99,999 - 150

$100,000 to $149,999 - 233

$150,000 to $199,999 - 51

$200,000 or more - 41

Median household income (dollars) - 40,421

Mean household income (dollars)- 54,741

Census.gov's American Fact Finder

posted by mom2 on Feb 18, 2013 at 03:19:51 pm     #  

If anyone wants to pull up more detailed statistics for their own neighborhood (census tract), you can use the link I posted above to pull up the info.

It actually gives a lot of interesting, detailed information beyond just income data.

posted by mom2 on Feb 18, 2013 at 03:23:32 pm     #   1 person liked this

I'm pretty sure bigot is the right word here BTW.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bigot

posted by SensorG on Feb 18, 2013 at 03:24:10 pm     #   2 people liked this

Elva posted at 12:57:49 PM on Feb 18, 2013:

With a blog name like "researcher," one might assume some foundational understanding of the manipulation of data. I'm going to assist with some basic concepts.

According to the U.S Census Bureau, 54% of minorities are designated as living in poverty and 38% of whites fall into that category. It affirms the accuracy of my initial statement that "the poorest areas are the ones with the highest minority population."

P.S. "Researcher": You may want to re-read your post:

"Here's a list of the lowest income counties in the US. The top poorest counties are primarily Native Americans. Are they getting a lot of "urban renewal" money in the Dakotas?

#3 is Starr County, TX. It's 88% white.

The first primarily African-American county I noticed was East Carroll Parish, LA at #15."

Keeping in mind that I never mentioned "African Americans," but said "minorities" in my original post, it's obvious that you were thinking only of blacks (reference your #15 comment).

It's only "obvious" if you're looking at covering your own ass. The fact remains, your first post in this thread was discredited. Game over. Move on.

posted by researcher on Feb 18, 2013 at 03:28:52 pm     #   1 person liked this

SensorG posted at 01:14:49 PM on Feb 18, 2013:

If you didn't mean African Americans when you said minorities, who were you referring to when you? You certainly weren’t talking about Native Americans. Stop trying to back track and falsely parse your words, you’re a bigot; you got called on it; accept it and move on.

Are you sure there's not a lot of "urban renewal" taking place in the Dakotas?

I just wanted to see if Elva would ignore that again.

posted by researcher on Feb 18, 2013 at 03:29:56 pm     #  

mom2 posted at 02:23:32 PM on Feb 18, 2013:

If anyone wants to pull up more detailed statistics for their own neighborhood (census tract), you can use the link I posted above to pull up the info.

It actually gives a lot of interesting, detailed information beyond just income data.

Thanks mom2, it must add in the appartments and retirement condos as well. There at the other end of the neighborhood and while I go by them all the time, I don't consider them Ragan Woods.

posted by SensorG on Feb 18, 2013 at 03:31:26 pm     #  

On the link I posted, it appears that Census Tracts are further broken down into subunits called block groups.

You can determine both the census tract and block group for a home by entering the specific address.

It is possible to filter some of the data and statistics by block group, but it appears that the income data doesn't break down that far.

posted by mom2 on Feb 18, 2013 at 03:46:43 pm     #  

SensorG posted at 01:14:49 PM on Feb 18, 2013:

If you didn't mean African Americans when you said minorities, who were you referring to when you? You certainly weren’t talking about Native Americans. Stop trying to back track and falsely parse your words, you’re a bigot; you got called on it; accept it and move on.

I don't see it, SensorG. Elva wrote 'minorities', plural. No specific group was mentioned or inferred.

You, on the other hand, got sucked into a troll trap that a retarded five year old would have avoided, and possibly sensing something not quite right about this you resort to the old tried and true tactic of name calling and false conclusion.

posted by madjack on Feb 18, 2013 at 04:46:52 pm     #   2 people liked this

—sigh— No MJ, Elva didn’t use the word ‘minorities' in their initial post. They said “minority population” and “those populations”. Do you think they were referring to Native Americans? Asians? Are the Irish still considered minorities?

posted by SensorG on Feb 18, 2013 at 05:05:21 pm     #  

No matter how she or Sensor meant minorities, Elva clearly made bigoted statements. As if the only explanation for lower income is rampant over-sexuality, drug use, and the undervaluing of education. It never relates to the lower starting income of the family, inability to attend college (for various reasons), or the lack of connections to break into the trades. Note, I am not ignoring the fact that many people - of all "races" - DO fail to earn a decent living for the reasons Elva mentioned, but I am not ignorant enough to believe that minorities, as a group, are hyper sexual, drug addicts who are barely able to read and write.

posted by MoreThanRhetoric on Feb 18, 2013 at 05:05:46 pm     #   1 person liked this

From Researcher: Are you sure there's not a lot of "urban renewal" taking place in the Dakotas?

Yeah, it's called Habitat for Humanity. I took a look at the map, and having lived in South Dakota for a while I can tell you for a hard fact that these are the areas where you don't travel unarmed, and that's during the day. At night you don't travel at all; the Indians will shoot at you.

The Indians (AKA the Sioux or Oglala) are the minority that Elva is talking about here. The Sioux aren't black, by the way. You don't have to take my word for this though - you can drive out there and find out for yourself.

Habitat for Humanity went through the area and built a series of very nice cabins which they gave away to the local residents. Two years later the place looked like it got hit with a sixties style race riot, complete with burned out cars and trashed buildings.

My point here is that urban renewal alone does not produce the expected result. New infrastructure, shops and living space can eventually be constructed, but it will be demolished by the local populace in short order. Another example is Cabrini Green, an absolutely legendary failure.

If the government wanted real renewal, it would manipulate the economy so as to create a labor shortage (among other things). In truth the government doesn't want that. The government wants a dependent population that will continue to elect Mister and Mistress Popularity into office.

posted by madjack on Feb 18, 2013 at 05:21:26 pm     #   2 people liked this

I'm fairly new to this blog. Do SensorG and Researcher always resort to name calling?

posted by Elva on Feb 18, 2013 at 05:36:12 pm     #  

Nice subject change. Again Elva, who were you referring to when you said ‘minorities'. I also wasn’t name calling, I was defining what you are. Big difference…

posted by SensorG on Feb 18, 2013 at 05:41:43 pm     #  

From MoreThanRhetoric: I am not ignorant enough to believe that minorities, as a group, are hyper sexual, drug addicts who are barely able to read and write.

Oh I don't know about that, MoreThanRhetoric. You can be pretty ignorant when you put your mind to it. I kind of think I need a little convincing. Can you blame me?

My real objection is that an increasingly large segment of the vocal populace wants to ignore, decry and discredit any facts that highlight race, crime, population growth, education, lack of employment and government assistance with the lowest economic segment of our population. Heaven help you if you bring up any IQ statistics (The Bell Curve anyone?) and link it to race. You'll be tarred, feathered and run out of town on a rail - just don't ask your detractors to pass an eighth grade reading test.

So the rest of the populace is just supposed to sit quietly on the sidelines and pretend that slums don't exist, Pickett Elementary is a really, really good school to attend and there isn't really any reason to avoid certain sections of the city during broad daylight. And, by the way, continue shoveling tax dollars into a system that is not working and hasn't worked in a long time.

posted by madjack on Feb 18, 2013 at 05:49:35 pm     #   2 people liked this

Elva posted at 04:36:12 PM on Feb 18, 2013:

I'm fairly new to this blog. Do SensorG and Researcher always resort to name calling?

Only when properly motivated.

posted by madjack on Feb 18, 2013 at 05:50:46 pm     #  

MJ, I always love your witty banter and intelligent insights. As for your question about the existence of slums...

Of course there are slums. Of course there are areas populated by low class, unintelligent blacks. And whites. And Indians. Slums are not endemic to minorities, despite what you would like to believe. If you go to countries where blacks are the only people around, do you know what you find? You find neighborhoods of all kinds. Rich areas, poor areas, safe areas, crime-riddled areas, etc...Just because your myopic view of the US leads you to believe that slums are a minority phenomena does not make it so. There is significant correlation between economic position and crime and education rates. However, the relationship between cause and effect is not a simple one - it is more of a cycle than unidirectional.

posted by MoreThanRhetoric on Feb 18, 2013 at 06:06:25 pm     #   1 person liked this

Incidentally, use your brain, or may be a dictionary, the next time you sling an insult. Ignorant is the person who incorrectly uses the word ignorant.

posted by MoreThanRhetoric on Feb 18, 2013 at 06:09:18 pm     #  

madjack posted at 04:21:26 PM on Feb 18, 2013:

From Researcher: Are you sure there's not a lot of "urban renewal" taking place in the Dakotas?

Yeah, it's called Habitat for Humanity. I took a look at the map, and having lived in South Dakota for a while I can tell you for a hard fact that these are the areas where you don't travel unarmed, and that's during the day. At night you don't travel at all; the Indians will shoot at you.

The Indians (AKA the Sioux or Oglala) are the minority that Elva is talking about here. The Sioux aren't black, by the way. You don't have to take my word for this though - you can drive out there and find out for yourself.

Habitat for Humanity went through the area and built a series of very nice cabins which they gave away to the local residents. Two years later the place looked like it got hit with a sixties style race riot, complete with burned out cars and trashed buildings.

My point here is that urban renewal alone does not produce the expected result. New infrastructure, shops and living space can eventually be constructed, but it will be demolished by the local populace in short order. Another example is Cabrini Green, an absolutely legendary failure.

If the government wanted real renewal, it would manipulate the economy so as to create a labor shortage (among other things). In truth the government doesn't want that. The government wants a dependent population that will continue to elect Mister and Mistress Popularity into office.

I've spent a lot of time in the Dakotas. Never carried a gun. Not very urban.

Nice try and nice deflection.

posted by researcher on Feb 18, 2013 at 06:15:02 pm     #  

Elva posted at 04:36:12 PM on Feb 18, 2013:

I'm fairly new to this blog. Do SensorG and Researcher always resort to name calling?

Only when it's all that's necessary to state a fact.

posted by researcher on Feb 18, 2013 at 06:16:46 pm     #  

madjack posted at 04:49:35 PM on Feb 18, 2013:

From MoreThanRhetoric: I am not ignorant enough to believe that minorities, as a group, are hyper sexual, drug addicts who are barely able to read and write.

Oh I don't know about that, MoreThanRhetoric. You can be pretty ignorant when you put your mind to it. I kind of think I need a little convincing. Can you blame me?

My real objection is that an increasingly large segment of the vocal populace wants to ignore, decry and discredit any facts that highlight race, crime, population growth, education, lack of employment and government assistance with the lowest economic segment of our population. Heaven help you if you bring up any IQ statistics (The Bell Curve anyone?) and link it to race. You'll be tarred, feathered and run out of town on a rail - just don't ask your detractors to pass an eighth grade reading test.

So the rest of the populace is just supposed to sit quietly on the sidelines and pretend that slums don't exist, Pickett Elementary is a really, really good school to attend and there isn't really any reason to avoid certain sections of the city during broad daylight. And, by the way, continue shoveling tax dollars into a system that is not working and hasn't worked in a long time.

The only people that think there is "an increasingly large segment of the vocal populace wants to ignore, decry and discredit any facts that highlight race, crime, population growth, education, lack of employment and government assistance with the lowest economic segment of our population", are people who just wish they could lynch any non-white.

posted by researcher on Feb 18, 2013 at 06:19:02 pm     #  

Thought Crime - the next best thing to actual wrong doing, and historically a very convenient tool for those who wish to exert their perceived power.

posted by Danneskjold on Feb 18, 2013 at 06:51:55 pm     #   1 person liked this

Who was I talking about when I wrote "minorities"um"minorities."

posted by Elva on Feb 18, 2013 at 07:02:52 pm     #  

Researcher, talk about deflection, I guess calling Eva a racist negates her statements on the waste of pumping taxpayer money into the bottomless holes some of those neighborhoods have turned out to be. Regardless of the color of skin those residents have, giving them free stuff hasn't seemed to improve their situation, the people living in those communities don't maintain their residences, and dont seem to give a crap about what the appearance of their neighborhoods look like. Those conditions seem to spread to other nearby blocks as well, and you can go out and watch as people move to new neighborhoods and their houses start to crumble from neglect. Lack of caring because its not like it was their money that paid for any of it, because they don't pay taxes, they let their grass grow, their windows go unwashed, their houses unpainted or cared for, as long as they have a big screen tv, the latest hot tennis shoe, a nice car, and a cell phone they have what they care about. And that is regardless of race, religion, creed, number of parents, school they attend. Its ingrained in their attitudes and taught to their children. I have only to look at my polish grandmother who would be so embarrassed should anyone see spots on her windows or the grass untrimmed, she worried about every detail of how her house appeared to her neighbors. She and her husband worked their asses off to pay for that house, it wasn't a mansion, she paid money she earned to buy that house and she was damned if someone was going to tell her it looked bad. She even resorted to trimming her grass with scissors because it looked bad to her. The care she took of that house and yard was because she cared what others thought and what she perceived were its imperfections. But she was damn proud of it, and no one from the government was going to tell her what size of toilet she could have, how many gallons of water could come out of the shower head, what kind of light bulbs she could use, it was her property and those idiots could go to hell in her opinion.

posted by Linecrosser on Feb 18, 2013 at 07:16:05 pm     #   1 person liked this

Linecrosser posted at 06:16:05 PM on Feb 18, 2013:

Researcher, talk about deflection, I guess calling Eva a racist negates her statements on the waste of pumping taxpayer money into the bottomless holes some of those neighborhoods have turned out to be. Regardless of the color of skin those residents have, giving them free stuff hasn't seemed to improve their situation, the people living in those communities don't maintain their residences, and dont seem to give a crap about what the appearance of their neighborhoods look like. Those conditions seem to spread to other nearby blocks as well, and you can go out and watch as people move to new neighborhoods and their houses start to crumble from neglect. Lack of caring because its not like it was their money that paid for any of it, because they don't pay taxes, they let their grass grow, their windows go unwashed, their houses unpainted or cared for, as long as they have a big screen tv, the latest hot tennis shoe, a nice car, and a cell phone they have what they care about. And that is regardless of race, religion, creed, number of parents, school they attend. Its ingrained in their attitudes and taught to their children. I have only to look at my polish grandmother who would be so embarrassed should anyone see spots on her windows or the grass untrimmed, she worried about every detail of how her house appeared to her neighbors. She and her husband worked their asses off to pay for that house, it wasn't a mansion, she paid money she earned to buy that house and she was damned if someone was going to tell her it looked bad. She even resorted to trimming her grass with scissors because it looked bad to her. The care she took of that house and yard was because she cared what others thought and what she perceived were its imperfections. But she was damn proud of it, and no one from the government was going to tell her what size of toilet she could have, how many gallons of water could come out of the shower head, what kind of light bulbs she could use, it was her property and those idiots could go to hell in her opinion.

Did you even read my posts? What are you talking about?

posted by researcher on Feb 18, 2013 at 07:25:21 pm     #   3 people liked this

Based on Elva's original false argument and the subsequent discussion, here are some stats from American FactFinder that render all of this moot:

Population living in poverty: 48,452,035
White living in poverty: 29,260,632 (That's 60%, for those keeping score)

Are all of these people having babies they can't afford, taking drugs, and not valuing education, but just so happen to be spread over a larger geographic area?

posted by researcher on Feb 18, 2013 at 08:30:22 pm     #  

White people have the good sense to spread out their poverty!

posted by researcher on Feb 18, 2013 at 08:45:03 pm     #  

madjack posted at 04:21:26 PM on Feb 18, 2013:

From Researcher: Are you sure there's not a lot of "urban renewal" taking place in the Dakotas?

Yeah, it's called Habitat for Humanity. I took a look at the map, and having lived in South Dakota for a while I can tell you for a hard fact that these are the areas where you don't travel unarmed, and that's during the day. At night you don't travel at all; the Indians will shoot at you.

The Indians (AKA the Sioux or Oglala) are the minority that Elva is talking about here. The Sioux aren't black, by the way. You don't have to take my word for this though - you can drive out there and find out for yourself.

Habitat for Humanity went through the area and built a series of very nice cabins which they gave away to the local residents. Two years later the place looked like it got hit with a sixties style race riot, complete with burned out cars and trashed buildings.

My point here is that urban renewal alone does not produce the expected result. New infrastructure, shops and living space can eventually be constructed, but it will be demolished by the local populace in short order. Another example is Cabrini Green, an absolutely legendary failure.

If the government wanted real renewal, it would manipulate the economy so as to create a labor shortage (among other things). In truth the government doesn't want that. The government wants a dependent population that will continue to elect Mister and Mistress Popularity into office.

You just described the hollers of West Virginia.

posted by SensorG on Feb 18, 2013 at 09:07:21 pm     #   1 person liked this

Also Mad Jack the Bell Curve was completely debunked years ago. I'm not surprised you still cling to it's wrong conclusions because it fits the naritive in your head about blacks. It's not the you think blacks are "less intelligent", it's "science" right.?

posted by SensorG on Feb 18, 2013 at 09:24:23 pm     #  

this is getting ridiculous people

posted by upso on Feb 18, 2013 at 09:51:27 pm     #   1 person liked this

(A/C walks into thread)

(A/C walks back out)

(A/C goes off and dons his lead-lined Nomex suit)

(A/C walks back into thread)

Shitty neighborhoods aren't about race. That's a side-effect of other sociopolitical factors. (aka "that 'hood is full of [fill in the blank] and I'm gonna get out of there because [blank]"

Shitty neighborhoods are about income, they're about slumlords who don't maintain their properties, they're about residents who don't have any respect for others, let alone self-respect, they're about (in the past 5 years) foreclosed homes not being kept up and the high prices for scrap metals causing otherwise decent homes to be stripped and essentially economically unfeasable to repair and sell, etc. etc.

I'm not going to argue on "urban renewal" other than to say that when the money isn't being spread evenly (because the local government is full of self-centered douchebags, REGARDLESS OF PARTY, who kowtow to whatever movers and shakers suit their tastes), and as a result the streets and sidewalks fall apart and police/fire response sucks and the property/zoning inspections aren't done, you definitely get the feeling of "fuck it, nobody cares, why should I spend the money and effort to make my place look nice?". It doesn't matter if it's gang graffiti in the black 'hood or a car up on blocks and a pile of empty beer cans and uncut grass in the front yard in the white 'hood, if nobody gives a damn and the city ain't got the time and resources to deal with it and the slumlord don't give a fuck.

I want you guys to step back from the residential aspect of this and go look at how the hell the City of Toledo managed the COMMERCIAL properties in the Southwyck area or the Northtowne area, or even how Northwood managed the Woodville Mall. How the hell do things get into those states? One would EXPECT that if the government was sooooo strapped for cash, they'd be inspecting and citing the crap out of the commercial slumlords, shutting stuff down, going after them hard over missed tax payments, etc. etc. Instead they opted for some low-hanging fruit (the infamous driveway parking tickets, lots of red-light cameras, easy stuff they can get out of the average Joe) instead of investing time (time = money after all) in going after the corporate slumlords.

Of course, this routes right back to the "let's spend the money on our friends and backers" route... hey, let's commission a study (that costs $50k or more) on how to revitalize or market or whatever bullshit, instead of investing that money in getting the city law and inspections departments some more people to go cite and prosecute.

Ask yourselves how the Nicholas building is what, $500k behind in back taxes.

If you want to fix Toledo, what you do is you announce that there's going to be one hell of a code enforcement blitz in the spring, with a website explaining code violations that will be cited and to report problems anonymously and a schedule of when the blitz is going to hit the neighborhood, and you allocate the resources to go neighborhood or zipcode by zipcode looking for all the cars on blocks and gang graffiti and broken windows and uncut grass and write it all up. Then you follow up in 30 days cleaning up the messes and leaving citations and bills. Then you follow up 30 days later with everyone who has not made arrangement to pay the bills. Then in 30 more days you start the court cases and arrests. Yeah, you are tying up the courts with something other than crime and traffic citations, tough cookies.

I'm not a fan of eminent domain or government seizing property by any means, but if it is clear the owner doesn't give a flying fuck at a rolling donut, it's time to take action. The owners know the city doesn't care, and if they did, they don't have the resources to do anything about it, so it becomes a circular problem.

posted by anonymouscoward on Feb 18, 2013 at 09:54:12 pm     #   1 person liked this

upso posted at 08:51:27 PM on Feb 18, 2013:

this is getting ridiculous people

I have been waiting for someone to play the Western Sky Financial card. :)

posted by justread on Feb 18, 2013 at 09:55:18 pm     #  

Dear lord--what "Researcher" doesn't know!

Okay, so "Researcher" (and we are using that term loosely!) says that there are 29,260,632 whites living in poverty and makes a BIG DEAL about how that is 60% of the people living in poverty.

Here's some really tricky math, "Researcher," so get out your calculator.

There are 223,553,265 whites in the U.S. So:

29,260,632 divided by 223,553,265 = 13% of whites live in poverty

If you care to do the math on your own, you can look up on your trusty website how many blacks or Hispanics live in poverty and divide it by the number of total blacks or Hispanics in the U.S. and you will find that the percentage of each of those populations (otherwise referred to as "minorities") living in poverty will be much higher.

Then you might want to re-read my ORIGINAL post.

You're welcome!

posted by Elva on Feb 18, 2013 at 10:22:43 pm     #  

Elva posted at 09:22:43 PM on Feb 18, 2013:

Dear lord--what "Researcher" doesn't know!

Okay, so "Researcher" (and we are using that term loosely!) says that there are 29,260,632 whites living in poverty and makes a BIG DEAL about how that is 60% of the people living in poverty.

Here's some really tricky math, "Researcher," so get out your calculator.

There are 223,553,265 whites in the U.S. So:

29,260,632 divided by 223,553,265 = 13% of whites live in poverty

If you care to do the math on your own, you can look up on your trusty website how many blacks or Hispanics live in poverty and divide it by the number of total blacks or Hispanics in the U.S. and you will find that the percentage of each of those populations (otherwise referred to as "minorities") living in poverty will be much higher.

Then you might want to re-read my ORIGINAL post.

You're welcome!

Your original post says nothing about that. You're trying and failing to cover up for your ignorant comments.

As proven, there are high numbers of poor white communities. You were factually incorrect. Again, this is proven. Are you too proud to admit it?

posted by researcher on Feb 18, 2013 at 10:34:18 pm     #   2 people liked this

As mocked earlier, your only potential argument is a hysterical complaint about poor minorities in denser communities. What does that prove and how is that "the elephant in the room"?

posted by researcher on Feb 18, 2013 at 10:37:30 pm     #   3 people liked this

Elva posted at 08:52:06 PM on Feb 17, 2013:

The elephant in the room when you look at neighborhoods by income is that the poorest areas are the ones with the highest minority population. After decades of "urban renewal" and taxpayers sinking billions of dollars into government programs, these neighborhoods never get better. Obviously, nothing is going to change until those populations decide it's time to stop having babies they can't afford, stop taking drugs, and start valuing education.

I am one taxpayer who no longer wants to be forced to pay for people's failures.

...for what it's worth, "Urban Renewal" is an actual definable program/ideology from the late 1950s that lasted through the 1970s and was very very very very very bad. Those ideas are dead, it's not what is going on anymore.

It was all a bad reaction to Eisenhower's freeway system sucking the life out of the downtown economies of, well, nearly every city in the country. Now 90% of cities have a doughnut-looking economy in their regions. I'm curious, did you guys bitch about it what the federal governments paid 90 cents on the dollar for the hundreds of billions of dollars for suburban development? It's arguably the greatest misallocation of resources in the history of mankind.

From the 1980s onward, cities have corrected their mistakes of "Urban Renewal" and real progress has happened. The ones that acted quickly thrived, the ones that didn't failed miserably. Toledo is in the latter category.

Of course this isn't necessarily dealing with welfare/education, simply coming from a Planning perspective here.

posted by BusterBluth on Feb 19, 2013 at 11:57:51 am     #  

Actually, I have my date wrong. It was 1949. And let me be more specific about why Urban Renewal was terrible.

In a nutshell, the thought process was that we should get away from things like the "City Beautiful" moment that existed more or less since 1890 (that we should fix our cities to look like Europe and upgrade tenements and whatnot. You know, FIX THE PROBLEM), and that we should embrace "rational planning" and build highrise communist-looking residential towers and highways going everywhere. So, the federal government handed out billions upon billions to knock down slums and throw huge freeways down.

The worst part is that the people living there were ignored, which started a lot of our modern social problems. For example, Urban Renewal displaced more than 100,000 urban poor and put them in government public housing problems--i.e. concentrating all of the poor into one place, which totally exacerbated the problem (look up Pruitt-Igoe) and made a bad problem and much much much worse. Then there's the whole deal of Racial Zoning (yep, it existed) all over the country. Did you know that the only place MLK Jr was assaulted during a march was in Chicago while marching on integrating a suburb. Did you know that the Fair Housing Act was the last of the Civil Rights Acts to be passed? It has been a systematic approach to concentrate poverty and "escape" it (while simultaneously attempting to ignore it) instead of treating the issue.

Is the system working today? Of course not. But let's not pretend that it is something new or that only happened from some failure of Johnson's Great Society. You can look at Red Lining maps from the 1930s and see a shockingly perfect map of ever plight is today--EIGHTY YEARS LATER.

posted by BusterBluth on Feb 19, 2013 at 12:51:14 pm     #  

Why don't we have an edit function?

"For Example, Urban Renewal displaced more than 100,000 urban poor in Atlanta alone and put them in governmental public housing programs."

posted by BusterBluth on Feb 19, 2013 at 12:58:41 pm     #  

(A/C walks into thread)

You're late. What are you trying to do, make some kind of grand entrance or something?

From Elva: Okay, so "Researcher" (and we are using that term loosely!)

Just remember that if you want to tighten him up, he's got left-handed threads.

posted by madjack on Feb 19, 2013 at 06:51:43 pm     #  

From AnonymousCoward: look at how the hell the City of Toledo managed the COMMERCIAL properties in the Southwyck area or the Northtowne area, or even how Northwood managed the Woodville Mall. How the hell do things get into those states?

As you well know there isn't anything in the Southwyck area except a McDonald's, a bus stop (Chicago Megabus) and a couple of bankrupt hotels. Unless you count the apartments in back of the Southwyck Slab, that is, and I think those are all Section 8 places.

Toledo didn't manage anything in that area. The mall and the surrounding businesses were doing pretty well for a while, then everything just slowly slid into the swamp. Crime at the mall was a big problem, and no one was doing a thing to keep a lid on it. Eventually the place got bulldozed, and every developer in the US of A has been smart enough to stay the hell away from the area. Every developer, and that includes the geniuses that thought Portside was a great idea.

posted by madjack on Feb 19, 2013 at 07:14:42 pm     #  

madjack posted at 06:14:42 PM on Feb 19, 2013:

From AnonymousCoward: look at how the hell the City of Toledo managed the COMMERCIAL properties in the Southwyck area or the Northtowne area, or even how Northwood managed the Woodville Mall. How the hell do things get into those states?

As you well know there isn't anything in the Southwyck area except a McDonald's, a bus stop (Chicago Megabus) and a couple of bankrupt hotels. Unless you count the apartments in back of the Southwyck Slab, that is, and I think those are all Section 8 places.

Toledo didn't manage anything in that area. The mall and the surrounding businesses were doing pretty well for a while, then everything just slowly slid into the swamp. Crime at the mall was a big problem, and no one was doing a thing to keep a lid on it. Eventually the place got bulldozed, and every developer in the US of A has been smart enough to stay the hell away from the area. Every developer, and that includes the geniuses that thought Portside was a great idea.

Thanks for proving my point. No, seriously. I did say COMMERCIAL properties.

Crime at the mall was a big problem

Yeah, exactly.

Wasn't there something that got tore down for being a nuisance property and then they built the Walgreens or whatever it is on that spot? My brain keeps recalling something in that area (other than the mall itself, obviously) having been a big crime area and getting shut down and tore down.

posted by anonymouscoward on Feb 19, 2013 at 09:13:15 pm     #  

The city should have done more long ago to tighten up the owners of the malls.

posted by Linecrosser on Feb 19, 2013 at 11:23:30 pm     #  

I really liked AC's Feb 18th 'Nomex' post. He's still dodging the race factor, since he's a Liberal and he will never admit that, but it's certainly true there are several other significant socio-economic factors involved. Arguably, those factors are more fixable; it's not like we can address the race issue directly, by actually shipping all those troublesome Whites "back to Europe" where they came from.

posted by GuestZero on Feb 20, 2013 at 12:11:08 am     #  

"I want you guys to step back from the residential aspect of this and go look at how the hell the City of Toledo managed the COMMERCIAL properties in the Southwyck area or the Northtowne area, or even how Northwood managed the Woodville Mall. How the hell do things get into those states?"

Those places aren't built to last. Big box stores have a life expectancy of FIFTEEN YEARS, and that's coming from the developers' standpoint.

It's literally the equivalent of slash and burn farming. Build a big stucco building, gross as much as possible, flee the area and build a new one elsewhere. There is no real investment on the developers' part because they're in it to MAXIMIZE PROFIT, not be economically sustainable.

Malls are fake downtowns, that's it. Southwyck was just the fake downtown Maumee, and now the new fake downtown Maumee is fallen timbers. Don't be so naive, it's not meant to last.

The best thing a government can do when put in the situation of building a mall (gross), is to require funds to be placed in escrow for ~25 years. If the mall is still hoppin', the developer can use the money to reinvest in the building, if it's vacant, then the money is used to knock the building down quickly to prevent the mess it becomes.

And before anyone says "oh well they're just moving away from the crime and slums and to where the money is..." No shit, and the crime and slums happen because it's not economically sustainable. It goes both ways.

posted by BusterBluth on Feb 20, 2013 at 12:55:24 am     #  

GuestZero posted at 11:11:08 PM on Feb 19, 2013:

I really liked AC's Feb 18th 'Nomex' post. He's still dodging the race factor, since he's a Liberal and he will never admit that, but it's certainly true there are several other significant socio-economic factors involved. Arguably, those factors are more fixable; it's not like we can address the race issue directly, by actually shipping all those troublesome Whites "back to Europe" where they came from.

I grew up in a white trailer trash 'hood. There isn't any fucking race problem. There's a RACIST problem ("oh look, a ni-BONG moved into our 'hood, time to move out!"). That's in part why you end up with these "new" "ethnic" neighborhoods. The rest of the problem is of course as I outlined it: a combination of lack of respect, lack of enforcement, socio-economic factors, etc. All it takes is a couple assholes to not maintain their property and for enough of the neighborhood to not care, as well as the city to not care.

posted by anonymouscoward on Feb 20, 2013 at 07:27:45 am     #  

posted by Ace_Face on Feb 20, 2013 at 09:43:20 am     #   7 people liked this

BB said: It's literally the equivalent of slash and burn farming. Build a big stucco building, gross as much as possible, flee the area and build a new one elsewhere. There is no real investment on the developers' part because they're in it to MAXIMIZE PROFIT, not be economically sustainable.

That seems insightful. It's still happening. Some fool built another center-anchor-based strip mall out on Navarre Ave, not that far from a similar one east of it that is far older and almost totally empty.

If commercial lending wasn't such a whore for businesses to ravish, this sort of thing would be rare. Developers would renovate existing locations instead.

posted by GuestZero on Feb 20, 2013 at 11:15:51 pm     #  

AC said: There isn't any fucking race problem. There's a RACIST problem ("oh look, a ni-BONG moved into our 'hood, time to move out!").

Yeah, that's what I said or implied you'd say. You'd never admit the addition of Negro thugs to neighborhoods caused their downfall.

Well, moving away from thugs is a civil right. Being a thug, is not.

posted by GuestZero on Feb 20, 2013 at 11:50:12 pm     #  

I like that "Negro" thugs, specifically, ruin a neighborhood. There are no other deleterious thugs. Or at least worth mentioning.

Us poor white people.

posted by researcher on Feb 21, 2013 at 12:08:07 am     #  

GuestZero posted at 10:50:12 PM on Feb 20, 2013:

AC said: There isn't any fucking race problem. There's a RACIST problem ("oh look, a ni-BONG moved into our 'hood, time to move out!").

Yeah, that's what I said or implied you'd say. You'd never admit the addition of Negro thugs to neighborhoods caused their downfall.

Well, moving away from thugs is a civil right. Being a thug, is not.

I... don't even know what to say to this. You sound like a pretty pathetic racist.

Have you ever considered that the "moving away" causes the economic and social black hole? Detroit is the prime example for the western world to see. While basing your economy something like automobiles (which are susceptible to economic booms and busts, you can simply wait on buying a new car) played a role, the much much much bigger factor is that that money simply moved out the Detroit city line.

A city's income is based on income and property tax, a county's income is based on sales tax. When some of the rich move over the line, the city still has to offer all of the public services (e.g. roads, bridges, police, etc) with a smaller tax base. Taxes can go up, or cuts can be made. Higher taxes and fewer police (more crime) drives everyone away. Why fix the problem when I can move two miles away and drive past the problem on the way to work?

Detroit is a "shrinking city," but that's a misnomer as the region is still growing. This is also true with Cleveland, Cincinnati, and most places you typically assume is shrinking.

http://www.epa.gov/med/grosseile_site/indicators/images/se-mi-and-detroit-population.gif

When the money moves out, the public services deteriorate, and situation exacerbates itself and becomes exponentially worse. Public schools go into the shitter due to the loss of tax revenue, the uneducated population turns to crime, and now we find ourselves in a situation where we are paying ~$42,000 annually per inmate to keep entire population behind bars.

Then of course the other factor is speculative land developers. Detroit Area, and the rest of the country, have built and are still building too many houses. Detroit Area in particular built 10,000 more houses than there were families to live in them. What does that do? Rich guy moves into the biggest, furthest away house, he sells his to slightly less rich guy who is slightly closer, he tells and sells his to someone slightly less rich and slightly closer....this continues all of the way until you're at the bottom of the barrel and suddenly there are 10,000 empty houses with no one to buy them. Vacancies go through the roof, they become crack houses, crime skyrockets because the presence of people is the #1 crime deterrent, and people just continue to run away from the black hole. They don't fix the problem.

Then there's the issue I already brought up, that we decided to systematically (i.e., legally and intentionally) segregate our communities and concentrate the poverty. That is just asinine for a number of reasons. If I have a classroom of 25 middle class/rich kids and 5 poor kids, the poor kids' test scores and his persona is shaped positively by the classmates. If it's 30 poor kids, test scores typically fall through the floor and only a rare few get ahead. This works in communities too. (and also the reason I'm 100% for vouchers so kids can free themselves from the disastrous TPS).
*
To say it's all about the "negro thus" moving in is horribly ignorant and ignores so many variables of the situation. As does pinning the economic downturn of a city on its woes. *

posted by BusterBluth on Feb 21, 2013 at 05:48:04 am     #  

So, it's Bill Pulte's fault?

posted by justread on Feb 21, 2013 at 06:09:28 am     #  

researcher posted at 11:08:07 PM on Feb 20, 2013:

I like that "Negro" thugs, specifically, ruin a neighborhood. There are no other deleterious thugs. Or at least worth mentioning.

Us poor white people.

"Thugs" of all colors destroyed my former quite West Toledo neighborhood.

Idiocracy knows no melanin.

posted by dbw8906 on Feb 21, 2013 at 10:09:09 am     #   5 people liked this

"Idiocracy knows no melanin."

I love that!

posted by Johio83 on Feb 21, 2013 at 10:26:16 am     #  

Johio83 posted at 09:26:16 AM on Feb 21, 2013:

"Idiocracy knows no melanin."

I love that!

Literally true in GZ's case. One wonders which is whiter: his skin or the sheets he wears.

posted by anonymouscoward on Feb 21, 2013 at 10:35:58 am     #   5 people liked this

Are caucasian thugs the minority ?!?!!?!? Can't catch a break these days

posted by Hoops on Feb 21, 2013 at 10:56:53 am     #  

dbw8906 posted at 09:09:09 AM on Feb 21, 2013:
researcher posted at 11:08:07 PM on Feb 20, 2013:

I like that "Negro" thugs, specifically, ruin a neighborhood. There are no other deleterious thugs. Or at least worth mentioning.

Us poor white people.

"Thugs" of all colors destroyed my former quite West Toledo neighborhood.

Idiocracy knows no melanin.

I doubt it. Disinvestment ruined the neighborhood. Essentially, the ability of flight produced White Flight.

I was at a talk yesterday given by George Galster, born and raised in North Toledo now teaching at Wayne State. He write pretty openly about what he calls "Space Rape," and how the two sides scapegoat each other. "You ruined by neighborhood! It's so dilapidated! It used to be great!" and they respond with "You ruined the neighborhood! You left it to fall into disrepair!"

The truth is obviously somewhere in the middle. Keep in mind that the highway construction destroyed thousands of homes for the poor. People obviously didn't like where they landed. So don't blame the thugs, one again blame the highways who displaced them.

posted by BusterBluth on Feb 21, 2013 at 11:17:59 am     #  

I liked AC's statement about going after the low hanging fruit. It always makes me wonder how the city can let buildings like the Clarion on Reynolds get so far behind on their taxes. If Joe Homeowner is 12 months delinquent, the foreclosure notices start coming.

posted by Dappling2 on Feb 21, 2013 at 03:00:13 pm     #  

I really have no idea what their reasoning is, but I could see it being something along these lines:
For the most part, anyone can buy a house. So if a homeowner falls behind, you can go after him. If you force him out, that's fine, because his house will be filled by a tax-paying occupier. With a large structure like a hotel or small business, however, it's not a given that someone else will come in and occupy the space, should the current owner be forced to vacate.

posted by Johio83 on Feb 21, 2013 at 03:16:57 pm     #  

Yes, but there are buildings that are behind on their taxes that are vacant as well. I weep for my south Toledo neighborhood as it is becoming increasingly shabbier.

The only real economic increase that I have seen is the number of beggars on the corner of Reynolds and Glendale! On a side note, I wish there was an ordinance against panhandling.

posted by Dappling2 on Feb 21, 2013 at 03:50:22 pm     #  

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20130221/METRO01/302210375

"Half of Detroit property owners don't pay taxes
News analysis finds $246.5M in taxes went unpaid last year"

posted by anonymouscoward on Feb 23, 2013 at 05:26:37 pm     #  

Wow.. seems like I trigger a dead or slow topic into a active one.

posted by EvilFoodie on Feb 23, 2013 at 06:10:18 pm     #  

GuestZero posted at 10:50:12 PM on Feb 20, 2013:

AC said: There isn't any fucking race problem. There's a RACIST problem ("oh look, a ni-BONG moved into our 'hood, time to move out!").

Yeah, that's what I said or implied you'd say. You'd never admit the addition of Negro thugs to neighborhoods caused their downfall.

Well, moving away from thugs is a civil right. Being a thug, is not.

GZ, given the disposition on civil rights that you have expressed in the past, I am surprised you don't consider 'being a thug' to be a natural right of man...

posted by Sohio on Feb 23, 2013 at 07:43:18 pm     #   2 people liked this

Being a thug is balanced by the natural right of lethal self defense. Probably too tricky a mental path for you to follow there, Sohio, sadly. Maybe passing a few college courses this time might do the trick for you. Or read a book. Remember those?

posted by GuestZero on Feb 24, 2013 at 01:36:31 am     #  

BusterBluth said: Have you ever considered that the "moving away" causes the economic and social black hole?

No, the economic and social black hole is caused by Negro thuggery, considering their huge contribution to the crime stats (unless you believe all crime stats are collected by 'racists'). It's all well documented by decades of causing White Flight.

Get it yet, nimrod? One thing CAUSED the other. Having trouble reading English? Seems like you're having trouble reading past the 'Libenglish' that fills the public schools and universities about this issue. Race isn't allowed to be talked about... which is a great hint that it's undoubtedly something that should be talked about.

Separate WAS equal. We propagandized that away. The races hate each other. That's the reality. Millennia of history proves that without a doubt. So all this diversity has led to unraveling of social fabric. This is how an empire dies. Good riddance, really. The world isn't going to miss the rest of our little and big Detroits when they burn and rot in the middle of all this wonderful diverSHITy.

How you Liberals explain away crime stats by just ignoring them, and then move away from Blacks anyway, steams my eggplant. Your very behavior means you understand that Whites don't want to live amongst Blacks, and vice versa. So what's the problem with admitting that separate is equal? It's not even that equality means anything these days anyway, since you retards are just fodder for the top 1% (the rich) and top 10% (the unions). The blessings of equality have long shriveled up on the American vine. One might as well place hope in the spirit of Christmas being some sort of rejuvenating social force.

posted by GuestZero on Feb 24, 2013 at 01:50:47 am     #  

GuestZero posted at 12:36:31 AM on Feb 24, 2013:

Being a thug is balanced by the natural right of lethal self defense. Probably too tricky a mental path for you to follow there, Sohio, sadly. Maybe passing a few college courses this time might do the trick for you. Or read a book. Remember those?

We've been over this before, GZ. It has nothing to do with nature; as certain humans have no nature-given ability to defend themselves against a person who has the nature-given attributes of a thug. Therefore, by your twisted logic, a thug being a thug and victimizing the helpless is his natural right.

This is why I reject your 'natural rights' horseshit, and am glad most thinking people do too.

Nice ad hominem attack, by the way. Too bad for you, it only serves to bolster my self-esteem to know that a person as small-minded as yourself thinks of me that way...

posted by Sohio on Feb 24, 2013 at 02:27:58 am     #   1 person liked this

GuestZero posted at 12:50:47 AM on Feb 24, 2013:

BusterBluth said: Have you ever considered that the "moving away" causes the economic and social black hole?

No, the economic and social black hole is caused by Negro thuggery, considering their huge contribution to the crime stats (unless you believe all crime stats are collected by 'racists'). It's all well documented by decades of causing White Flight.

Get it yet, nimrod? One thing CAUSED the other. Having trouble reading English? Seems like you're having trouble reading past the 'Libenglish' that fills the public schools and universities about this issue. Race isn't allowed to be talked about... which is a great hint that it's undoubtedly something that should be talked about.

Separate WAS equal. We propagandized that away. The races hate each other. That's the reality. Millennia of history proves that without a doubt. So all this diversity has led to unraveling of social fabric. This is how an empire dies. Good riddance, really. The world isn't going to miss the rest of our little and big Detroits when they burn and rot in the middle of all this wonderful diverSHITy.

How you Liberals explain away crime stats by just ignoring them, and then move away from Blacks anyway, steams my eggplant. Your very behavior means you understand that Whites don't want to live amongst Blacks, and vice versa. So what's the problem with admitting that separate is equal? It's not even that equality means anything these days anyway, since you retards are just fodder for the top 1% (the rich) and top 10% (the unions). The blessings of equality have long shriveled up on the American vine. One might as well place hope in the spirit of Christmas being some sort of rejuvenating social force.

Did you guys hear something?

posted by Sohio on Feb 24, 2013 at 03:19:48 am     #  

GuestZero: Separate WAS equal. We propagandized that away. The races hate each other. That's the reality. Millennia of history proves that without a doubt.

WTF? Just because you're a racist tool doesn't mean everyone else is. Your ignorance know no bounds. Every time I think we've seen it's limits, you simple produce more.

posted by SensorG on Feb 24, 2013 at 08:52:09 am     #   2 people liked this

... Millennia of history proves that without a doubt ...

Uh, GZ? "Racism" is a fairly new concept, at least in terms of human history. So-called "black laws" did not start emerging until the 18th century (and the colonial U.S. was ground zero for these race-based laws). Racism emerged in large measure in conjunction with the transatlantic slave trade, and in a cynical way racism has been useful for white elites to disrupt any sort of class solidarity that might have formed between black and white working classes (I add this because you have been promoting class solidarity on other threads). Prior to the 18th century religion and socioeconomic class were much greater sources of division than skin color.

And "separate was equal"? Not sure what you were smoking when you wrote this, but you obviously have not spent much time reading about the Jim Crow era South. Perhaps pick up a history textbook or two instead of the quasi-racist pamphlets you must be reading.

Last: personally, I would much prefer to live next door to African Americans who keep up their property than crazy lowlife whites, if given the choice.

posted by historymike on Feb 24, 2013 at 09:38:22 am     #  

The moderator here lets that kind of racist nonsense slide?

posted by researcher on Feb 24, 2013 at 04:10:17 pm     #  

researcher posted at 03:10:17 PM on Feb 24, 2013:

The moderator here lets that kind of racist nonsense slide?

Probably not if he notices this thread will probably be shit canned into politics. He doesn't normally censer free speech but it is his site and more often than not stuff gets moved to /p/ after AC or GZ get going in on politics.

posted by Linecrosser on Feb 24, 2013 at 05:34:52 pm     #  

Racism isn't exactly "politics".

posted by researcher on Feb 24, 2013 at 07:20:53 pm     #  

Perhaps not, but there is not an individual 'Racism' board, so things like this generally get bumped thusly.

posted by Sohio on Feb 24, 2013 at 08:03:06 pm     #  

Linecrosser posted at 04:34:52 PM on Feb 24, 2013:
researcher posted at 03:10:17 PM on Feb 24, 2013:

The moderator here lets that kind of racist nonsense slide?

Probably not if he notices this thread will probably be shit canned into politics. He doesn't normally censer free speech but it is his site and more often than not stuff gets moved to /p/ after AC or GZ get going in on politics.

Or yourself. Pot, kettle, all that.

posted by anonymouscoward on Feb 25, 2013 at 12:47:07 am     #  

researcher posted at 03:10:17 PM on Feb 24, 2013:

The moderator here lets that kind of racist nonsense slide?

PROTIP: The nice little ! flags the post as needing review. Start clicking on it when GZarthy starts spewing his racist crap (or maybe he's just trying too hard at trolling, who knows?)

posted by anonymouscoward on Feb 25, 2013 at 12:54:43 am     #  

researcher posted at 03:10:17 PM on Feb 24, 2013:

The moderator here lets that kind of racist nonsense slide?

Note that your own account is still active.

posted by madjack on Feb 25, 2013 at 11:22:37 am     #   1 person liked this

anonymouscoward posted at 11:47:07 PM on Feb 24, 2013:
Linecrosser posted at 04:34:52 PM on Feb 24, 2013:
researcher posted at 03:10:17 PM on Feb 24, 2013:

The moderator here lets that kind of racist nonsense slide?

Probably not if he notices this thread will probably be shit canned into politics. He doesn't normally censer free speech but it is his site and more often than not stuff gets moved to /p/ after AC or GZ get going in on politics.

Or yourself. Pot, kettle, all that.

No matter how appropriate it might be in this case, I find the constant repetition of pot, meet kettle (who are both black, as we all remember) a bit tiresome. I think a few substitutions might be in order, such as:
Gasoline, meet matches.
Magnesium, meet Bunsen burner.
Deep fryer, meet Chef Torch.

Or my own favorite, Moonbat, meet Wingnut.

I'm sure there are others.

posted by madjack on Feb 25, 2013 at 11:33:10 am     #  

madjack posted at 10:22:37 AM on Feb 25, 2013:
researcher posted at 03:10:17 PM on Feb 24, 2013:

The moderator here lets that kind of racist nonsense slide?

Note that your own account is still active.

I can't tell if you're drunk or if you're sober and haven't read your drunken posts.

posted by researcher on Feb 25, 2013 at 12:27:01 pm     #   1 person liked this

From HistoryMike: Last: personally, I would much prefer to live next door to African Americans who keep up their property than crazy lowlife whites, if given the choice.

Read that quote until comprehension has sunk in.

Let us suppose that a person, we'll call him Phred, has saved up his bread and finally bought himself a house. Anyone who has ever gone through the home buying process isn't likely to forget it - it isn't anything like shopping at Wally World. So Phred moves in along with his family, Mrs. Phred and three little snot noses. Life is a lot of hard work, but life is good. Phred gets to come home every day and the first thing he sees from down the block is his own home. Then he sees that the kids have left their paraphernalia out in the middle of the driveway again, and the weekday circus begins.

For the sake of brevity I'll mention that Phred, like a lot of people, keeps his place up pretty well. His home won't be featured in Better Homes and Gardens this year, and next year isn't looking all that promising either, but what the heck? Phred has a nice new pool in the back yard and Mrs. Phred still looks good in a bikini, so life is good.

So time passes, the kids grow a little because Phred keeps feeding them, and life is still pretty good. And a brand new family moves in down the block. The new family is of African-American descent. Black, in other words.

Seeing as how Phred and Mrs. Phred are on the good side of the bell curve and have fairly solid morals, they decide privately that if the new family is black, so what? They aren't any different than we are. They give the kids a quick lesson on racial prejudice, discrimination and such things as the kids might find disturbing, and that's that. When the old Sunday barbeque rolls around, Phred and his family are a little surprised at the attitude a few of the neighbors evidence about the new family, but that's life in suburbia, right? Each to his own. The best thing Phred and Mrs. Phred can do is explain carefully to their children that we don't believe the same way they do. We believe in equality, and racial prejudice is bad, and we don't use the en word in this house.

One month down the road a few 'For Sale' signs go up. The houses sell, one way or another, and another black family moves into the neighborhood. And another after that. Then Phred realizes that at some point things have changed. The occasional SUV blasting rap music at three in the morning is more frequent than it used to be. Late night traffic has increased considerably. Noise complaints are frequent and the police aren't around when you need them. Vandalism in the form of graffiti has gone from non-existent to common. Athletic, hard eyed young people congregate in front of several homes and stare silently at Phred and Mrs. Phred as they drive by. One evening as Phred is driving home a large group blocks the street so that Phred can't get past. Phred honks the horn, and finally, slowly, the group parts just enough to allow Phred to get by.

In August, when it's too hot to sleep at night, Phred hears a racket in his backyard and discovers a group of teenagers cooling off in his pool. He doesn't know them individually, but he knows where they came from. He realizes that he's afraid to tell them to get out, and he's afraid to call the police. Worse, he realizes that he's been afraid to drive home past their house.

If Phred decides to sell his home, he won't get as much for it. His home has devalued, the crime rate is up and the neighborhood isn't what it used to be.

Whatever happened to They aren't any different than we are.?

The hell they aren't. They are thugs. They aren't brown thugs, white thugs or green thugs. They are black thugs, and no matter what the right thinking, warm and sensitive good citizens of the enlightened age say or think or do, they are still black thugs. Black gangsters. Crips. We are not.

The problem that I see is that no one is allowed to call them black gangsters or black thugs. As soon as you apply that label, you're automatically a no-damned-good racist and anything you say is a dirty racist lie. Accuracy doesn't matter a whit. If you're white, you're supposed to tolerate vandalism, graffiti and noise at all hours of the night because if you don't, you're a racist. The reality of the situation has vanished.

If and when a similar scenario actually happens to you and you get to see your neighborhood go downhill due to crime and generally uncivilized behavior, it'll leave a mark on you. You won't see black people the same way for a long time, and the best you'll be able to do is not discriminate. Which is good enough, by the way, because we still have freedom of thought.

This is why I ignore or discount the racist portion of any comments on TT and a lot of other places.

posted by madjack on Feb 25, 2013 at 01:02:44 pm     #   4 people liked this

Everyone is allowed to call "them" thugs as long as you can pinpoint who "they" are. Instead, we're treated to the above generalizations and stereotypical racist nonsense.

In the same way I don't want to live next to a "thug", I don't want to live next to an ignorant, trashy, white racist like madjack.

posted by researcher on Feb 25, 2013 at 01:25:58 pm     #   7 people liked this

Wow – So the moral of Mad Jack’s story is that black people are thugs and as soon as one moves into your neighborhood you should either move right away or burn a giant cross in their yard to make them move. Ignorance and racism at its finest.

posted by SensorG on Feb 25, 2013 at 01:57:04 pm     #   8 people liked this

The problem that I see is that no one is allowed to call them black gangsters or black thugs.

Who isn't 'allowed' to? You just said it...did anyone censor you?

As soon as you apply that label, you're automatically a no-damned-good racist and anything you say is a dirty racist lie.

OK, so...basically, you want to be able to voice your opinion, without having to deal with others voicing their opinions back? You want to be able to say what you think about other people, but what others think about you just...hurts your feelings too much?

If and when a similar scenario actually happens to you and you get to see your neighborhood go downhill due to crime and generally uncivilized behavior, it'll leave a mark on you.

It is already happening to me...and I live in the suburbs. Predominately white. There is not a black family or black resident, to my knowledge, living within a several mile radius of me (and I would know if they were, right? 'Cuz they'd be BLAAAACK, after all! I'd see 'em!). Yet, I deal with vandalism. I deal with having my garage broken into (joke's on them...I have nothing of value out there) and when they caught the kid who did it, he was white. All of the petty crime that has ever been committed against myself or my family has been by white thugs. So, who do I get to blame?

You won't see black people the same way for a long time,

I bet I will. In fact, thinking about what you said here, I don't see WHITE people the same way. I mean, all those white people moved out of Phred's neighborhood, just because of their own prejudices...and now, Phred's neighborhood is a shithole? Phred suffers because of the small-mindedness of others; in fact, the white people seem to have more or less conspired to ruin Phred's neighborhood. I notice you seem to hold all of those white people blameless for fleeing under such silly pretenses?

I'm not going to call you a racist, MJ. I don't even know you. But you are saying racist things here ('blacks are thugs and thugs are black and if blacks move into your neighborhood it is the beginning of the end for you'). I fully respect your right to say them...but don't say racist things and then wonder why people call you a racist. Own your convictions.

posted by Sohio on Feb 25, 2013 at 03:37:45 pm     #   5 people liked this

researcher posted at 11:27:01 AM on Feb 25, 2013:
madjack posted at 10:22:37 AM on Feb 25, 2013:
researcher posted at 03:10:17 PM on Feb 24, 2013:

The moderator here lets that kind of racist nonsense slide?

Note that your own account is still active.

I can't tell if you're drunk or if you're sober and haven't read your drunken posts.

Maddie fails the Turing test, actually.

posted by anonymouscoward on Feb 25, 2013 at 06:31:33 pm     #  

GuestZero posted at 12:50:47 AM on Feb 24, 2013:

BusterBluth said: Have you ever considered that the "moving away" causes the economic and social black hole?

No, the economic and social black hole is caused by Negro thuggery, considering their huge contribution to the crime stats (unless you believe all crime stats are collected by 'racists'). It's all well documented by decades of causing White Flight.

Get it yet, nimrod? One thing CAUSED the other. Having trouble reading English? Seems like you're having trouble reading past the 'Libenglish' that fills the public schools and universities about this issue. Race isn't allowed to be talked about... which is a great hint that it's undoubtedly something that should be talked about.

Separate WAS equal. We propagandized that away. The races hate each other. That's the reality. Millennia of history proves that without a doubt. So all this diversity has led to unraveling of social fabric. This is how an empire dies. Good riddance, really. The world isn't going to miss the rest of our little and big Detroits when they burn and rot in the middle of all this wonderful diverSHITy.

How you Liberals explain away crime stats by just ignoring them, and then move away from Blacks anyway, steams my eggplant. Your very behavior means you understand that Whites don't want to live amongst Blacks, and vice versa. So what's the problem with admitting that separate is equal? It's not even that equality means anything these days anyway, since you retards are just fodder for the top 1% (the rich) and top 10% (the unions). The blessings of equality have long shriveled up on the American vine. One might as well place hope in the spirit of Christmas being some sort of rejuvenating social force.

You are such a piece of shit.

posted by BusterBluth on Feb 25, 2013 at 07:27:45 pm     #   7 people liked this

...and I'm not a liberal. lol

posted by BusterBluth on Feb 25, 2013 at 07:27:57 pm     #   4 people liked this

Taking things more or less in order...

There isn't much danger of you and I ever living next door to each other, Researcher. Still, if you ever think for some reason that your next door neighbor is me, feel free to ask.

For his part, SensorG suffers the Napoleon complex. Filter everything he writes through that and you'll get the true meaning.

From Sohio: But you are saying racist things here ('blacks are thugs and thugs are black and if blacks move into your neighborhood it is the beginning of the end for you').

You've misquoted me, which is a little surprising. My point, which you illustrated so well, is that once anyone complains about black thugs and their illegal activities, listening and comprehension cease. How will you ever solve the problem if you've blotted out everything else because of a politically correct knee jerk reaction? You won't, and you'll have no valid response to anyone who was ever victimized by a black thug.

Not that I didn't expect a load of stable dressing to fall all over this thread. I did. But certain intelligent contributors might have looked past any racist statements and started to see things (violent crime and gang activity, for instance) from a different perspective. Others are excused, such as our resident pseudo-intellectual and his BFFE Short-Biggie.

posted by madjack on Feb 25, 2013 at 08:11:53 pm     #   3 people liked this

anonymouscoward posted at 05:31:33 PM on Feb 25, 2013:
researcher posted at 11:27:01 AM on Feb 25, 2013:
madjack posted at 10:22:37 AM on Feb 25, 2013:
researcher posted at 03:10:17 PM on Feb 24, 2013:

The moderator here lets that kind of racist nonsense slide?

Note that your own account is still active.

I can't tell if you're drunk or if you're sober and haven't read your drunken posts.

Maddie fails the Turing test, actually.

Spoken by someone who has failed both the Rorschach and the MMPI - despite the cheat sheet I sent you.

posted by madjack on Feb 25, 2013 at 08:15:07 pm     #   2 people liked this

madjack posted at 07:11:53 PM on Feb 25, 2013:

Taking things more or less in order...

There isn't much danger of you and I ever living next door to each other, Researcher. Still, if you ever think for some reason that your next door neighbor is me, feel free to ask.

For his part, SensorG suffers the Napoleon complex. Filter everything he writes through that and you'll get the true meaning.

From Sohio: But you are saying racist things here ('blacks are thugs and thugs are black and if blacks move into your neighborhood it is the beginning of the end for you').

You've misquoted me, which is a little surprising. My point, which you illustrated so well, is that once anyone complains about black thugs and their illegal activities, listening and comprehension cease. How will you ever solve the problem if you've blotted out everything else because of a politically correct knee jerk reaction? You won't, and you'll have no valid response to anyone who was ever victimized by a black thug.

Not that I didn't expect a load of stable dressing to fall all over this thread. I did. But certain intelligent contributors might have looked past any racist statements and started to see things (violent crime and gang activity, for instance) from a different perspective. Others are excused, such as our resident pseudo-intellectual and his BFFE Short-Biggie.

Have you given up the "I know you" shtick?

posted by researcher on Feb 25, 2013 at 08:41:39 pm     #  

Madjack - "For his part, SensorG suffers the Napoleon complex. Filter everything he writes through that and you'll get the true meaning."

I call you out for your racist BS and this is all you have? Also I'm 6' tall, which if memory servers me correct, it taller than you.

posted by SensorG on Feb 25, 2013 at 09:24:41 pm     #   2 people liked this

My point, which you illustrated so well, is that once anyone complains about black thugs and their illegal activities, listening and comprehension cease.

I listened and I comprehended, MJ. I got your point. You can describe thuggery, but if you mention the thugs are/were black, people get uneasy. People think it is racist to merely identify the skin color of a perpetrator(s). That is partially because such descriptions are rarely limited to a simple statement of appearance of the thug in question. Your point wasn't THAT complex. I get it.

You can spin it any way you want. Your rhetorical example suggested that a single black family moving in down the street is a slippery slope to hordes of black thugs taking over your neighborhood. The fact that the problem you see in crime is that you think you can't freely associate it with a single race; instead of the problem being that the crime exists in the first place, is a rather racist perspective. As I have tried to tell you, I deal with plenty of crime in my suburban (read: not inner city) neighborhood perpetrated entirely by white folks (mostly teenagers). That is what makes it racist: when you focus only on the black thugs, you unfairly gloss over the WHITE thugs that are pissing ME off. How dare you.

You've misquoted me, which is a little surprising.

Um...I did? There's a difference between misquoting and paraphrasing, you know:

The hell they aren't. They are thugs. They aren't brown thugs, white thugs or green thugs. They are black thugs, and no matter what the right thinking, warm and sensitive good citizens of the enlightened age say or think or do, they are still black thugs. Black gangsters. Crips. We are not.

If and when a similar scenario actually happens to you and you get to see your neighborhood go downhill due to crime and generally uncivilized behavior, it'll leave a mark on you. You won't see black people the same way for a long time, and the best you'll be able to do is not discriminate.

OK, you're right. I was wrong to suggest that you opined blacks moving in was a death knell for any white street.

posted by Sohio on Feb 25, 2013 at 09:40:36 pm     #   8 people liked this

Doesn't matter what color the skin is, if you have slobs and criminals move into your neighborhood it will end up ruining the neighborhood.

posted by Linecrosser on Feb 26, 2013 at 04:44:16 pm     #   2 people liked this

...if you have slobs and criminals move into your neighborhood it will end up ruining the neighborhood.

Unless they get their own reality show.

posted by oldhometown on Feb 26, 2013 at 04:49:54 pm     #  

Yeah, that can actually be a job-creator...

posted by Sohio on Feb 26, 2013 at 08:16:07 pm     #  

BB said: You are such a piece of shit.

No, I don't commit crimes. I combat them. Criminals are the pieces of shit here... well, they and Liberals, who are in love with a diversity that they consistently avoid in their own neighborhoods, workplaces and schools.

This Liberal love affair with the violent Black thug is coming to an end. Section 8 and the housing crash is putting an end to White Flight. Liberals can't just run away anymore, screaming over their cowardly shoulders about how 'racist' the rest of us are being. Remember, BB, I moved into a neighborhood with a significant Black population. Given the social stats, and how many of you have dropped hints about your income levels, few if any of you R-worders actually live with or even near Blacks. I do. Total irony about who's 'racist' here.

posted by GuestZero on Feb 26, 2013 at 10:16:06 pm     #   4 people liked this

GuestZero posted at 09:16:06 PM on Feb 26, 2013:

BB said: You are such a piece of shit.

No, I don't commit crimes. I combat them. Criminals are the pieces of shit here... well, they and Liberals, who are in love with a diversity that they consistently avoid in their own neighborhoods, workplaces and schools.

This Liberal love affair with the violent Black thug is coming to an end. Section 8 and the housing crash is putting an end to White Flight. Liberals can't just run away anymore, screaming over their cowardly shoulders about how 'racist' the rest of us are being. Remember, BB, I moved into a neighborhood with a significant Black population. Given the social stats, and how many of you have dropped hints about your income levels, few if any of you R-worders actually live with or even near Blacks. I do. Total irony about who's 'racist' here.

Blah blah blah.

I don't give a shit what color my neighbors are, just so long as I don't have to put up with stupidity, be it loud bass from a blinged-out hood-mobile, or "hey y'all, hold my beer and watch this" antics, or whatever the fuck.

Again, the problem isn't "Negro Thuggery" or whatever stupid racist bullshit you've got, it's a lack of respect for anyone else.

posted by anonymouscoward on Feb 27, 2013 at 01:21:09 am     #   3 people liked this

What's a "R-worder"? Republican?

posted by Ace_Face on Feb 27, 2013 at 09:21:15 am     #   1 person liked this

GZ wrote:
No, I don't commit crimes. I combat them. Criminals are the pieces of shit here... well, they and Liberals, who are in love with a diversity that they consistently avoid in their own neighborhoods, workplaces and schools.

I’m feeling a bit dickish this morning, so I’m going to ask.

GuestZero, your blogger name used to be Peahippo (no secret). Are you the same Peahippo that arrested for felonious burglary a few years back?

http://www.kuro5hin.org/comments/2010/11/11/11817/893/25#25

posted by SensorG on Feb 27, 2013 at 10:05:00 am     #  

From SensorG: I'm 6' tall, which if memory servers me correct, it taller than you.

In your four inch FMPs, maybe.

posted by madjack on Feb 27, 2013 at 10:37:05 am     #   1 person liked this

From Sohio: People think it is racist to merely identify the skin color of a perpetrator(s). Your point wasn't THAT complex. I get it.

Complex is a relative term. Concepts that offer no complexity at all to you may qualify as a significant leap in philosophy for others. Then there are the chosen few for whom my little vignette is as easy to understand as a definition of the universe and nine examples.

Still, it's nice to affirm that I got my point across.

From Sohio: Your rhetorical example suggested that a single black family moving in down the street is a slippery slope to hordes of black thugs taking over your neighborhood.

Well... hell. I should have written it differently as that was not my intent. Far from it, in fact.

From Sohio: when you focus only on the black thugs, you unfairly gloss over the WHITE thugs that are pissing ME off. How dare you.

Because I'm a bold and daring contributor? No? Well then, my standard disclaimer is that I'm not trying to gloss anything over. Thugs, criminals and gang members are all universally no good and ought to be locked up, regardless of race.

posted by madjack on Feb 27, 2013 at 10:47:31 am     #  

From SensorG: I’m feeling a bit dickish this morning...

If you'll stop taking your work home with you, that won't happen.

posted by madjack on Feb 27, 2013 at 10:48:25 am     #  

madjack posted at 09:37:05 AM on Feb 27, 2013:

From SensorG: I'm 6' tall, which if memory servers me correct, it taller than you.

In your four inch FMPs, maybe.

You're calling me liar about my height? You’re getting crazier and crazier…

If memory serves me correct, History Mike has a pic of you and me together, perhaps he decide. I may be wrong about being taller than you; I have a hard time judging the height of fat people.

posted by SensorG on Feb 27, 2013 at 11:32:05 am     #   1 person liked this

And a brand new family moves in down the block. The new family is of African-American descent. Black, in other words....One month down the road a few 'For Sale' signs go up. The houses sell, one way or another, and another black family moves into the neighborhood. And another after that. Then Phred realizes that at some point things have changed. The occasional SUV blasting rap music at three in the morning is more frequent than it used to be.

The first thing I thought of was the "Successful Black Man" meme. To wit:

http://www.quickmeme.com/Successful-Black-Man/popular/1/

posted by Ace_Face on Feb 27, 2013 at 11:37:21 am     #  

madjack: "Thugs, criminals and gang members are all universally no good and ought to be locked up, regardless of race."

I think this should be the biggest takeaway for a lot of people in this discussion. People throw terms like "black thug" around, and focus on the first word instead of the second word. The same way people wrongly focus on the first word of "Muslim extremist." Then people formulate negative associations with Muslims, instead of accurately seeing that it's the "extremist" portion of it that is important. It's just as absurd as if you said "a serial killer from Colorado," and everyone said "oh my god, Colorado?! Why aren't we doing something about that state?!"

We could probably solve a lot of these issues by just stating the important part, that they're either a thug, extremist, or what have you. I've never heard anyone refer to Hitler as "the white mass murder who cause more harm to the world than any person, ever."

posted by Johio83 on Feb 27, 2013 at 12:14:43 pm     #   2 people liked this

GuestZero posted at 09:16:06 PM on Feb 26, 2013:

BB said: You are such a piece of shit.

No, I don't commit crimes. I combat them. Criminals are the pieces of shit here... well, they and Liberals, who are in love with a diversity that they consistently avoid in their own neighborhoods, workplaces and schools.

This Liberal love affair with the violent Black thug is coming to an end. Section 8 and the housing crash is putting an end to White Flight. Liberals can't just run away anymore, screaming over their cowardly shoulders about how 'racist' the rest of us are being. Remember, BB, I moved into a neighborhood with a significant Black population. Given the social stats, and how many of you have dropped hints about your income levels, few if any of you R-worders actually live with or even near Blacks. I do. Total irony about who's 'racist' here.

A very well-stated argument.

"I CAN'T be racist...I live near blacks! Do YOU???"

I don't think BB was trying to engage your assertions...he was just stating a fact. And frankly, he was being charitable about it. What you actually are is a lot lower than what he said you are.

posted by Sohio on Feb 27, 2013 at 05:09:40 pm     #   1 person liked this

Well... hell. I should have written it differently as that was not my intent. Far from it, in fact.

Yeah, I guess so. If that wasn't your message, maybe you shouldn't have said things like "you won't look at black people the same again." Or "they are still black thugs. Black gangsters. Crips. We are not."

Then there are the chosen few for whom my little vignette is as easy to understand as a definition of the universe and nine examples.

Oh, I think there are PLENTY of people who understood your little vignette. PLENTY. Your message got across, MJ. Don't worry about that.

Thugs, criminals and gang members are all universally no good and ought to be locked up, regardless of race.

...But the only ones that might cause a mass exodus of decent folk and lower your property value is the black 'uns...right, MJ?

posted by Sohio on Feb 27, 2013 at 05:16:47 pm     #   4 people liked this

Sohio posted at 04:16:47 PM on Feb 27, 2013:

Well... hell. I should have written it differently as that was not my intent. Far from it, in fact.

Yeah, I guess so. If that wasn't your message, maybe you shouldn't have said things like "you won't look at black people the same again." Or "they are still black thugs. Black gangsters. Crips. We are not."

Then there are the chosen few for whom my little vignette is as easy to understand as a definition of the universe and nine examples.

Oh, I think there are PLENTY of people who understood your little vignette. PLENTY. Your message got across, MJ. Don't worry about that.

Thugs, criminals and gang members are all universally no good and ought to be locked up, regardless of race.

...But the only ones that might cause a mass exodus of decent folk and lower your property value is the black 'uns...right, MJ?

Dontcha know neighborhoods only go to hell when b-l-a-c-k people move in? If white trailer trash move in, they're good people. Even more so if they hate the homos and ni-BONG!s and have signs and Confederate flags in their rusted-out shit-box vehicles and windows and yards to that effect.

posted by anonymouscoward on Feb 27, 2013 at 06:16:09 pm     #  

6 feet tall is the new short, just saying.

posted by justread on Feb 27, 2013 at 06:47:39 pm     #  

On the original topic, (Rich block poor block, which somehow became rich black, poor black) I am out in Arizona on a golf trip for the week. You drive from Scottsdale to Mesa and you are in a different world. Short trip... big difference.

posted by justread on Feb 27, 2013 at 06:54:15 pm     #  

(Rich block poor block, which somehow became rich black, poor black)

If you say it with a thick British accent, though, it's actually interchangeable. Try it. Russian works, too.

posted by Sohio on Feb 27, 2013 at 08:18:08 pm     #  

Hey, you're right.

Almost works with the Hahvud Yahd accent too.

posted by justread on Feb 27, 2013 at 11:18:23 pm     #