University of Toledo Housing Project

They've both already been working on the new location searches. I forget what the number Rick said, but I think it was somewhere around 450-600 residences?

i think at this point maxwells is still a hold out... i may be wrong.

big issue that UT needs to address is getting students safely from bancroft hills over to the university. too many students currently are making the dash across douglas into the centential (savage) hall parking lot - not a safe alternative. a stop light, sidewalks, and crosswalk would slow down speeding traffic and help students. with that many new units going in on bancroft for students the sidewalks at westwood and bancroft need be improved as well.

I lived on perth st. a couple houses off bancroft when I was at UT. We never had any break in problems, and any issues we had were always student related party incidents. The other end of Perth by Dorr was another story, constant house and car break ins. And these were not student related.

I lived on perth st. a couple houses off bancroft when I was at UT. We never had any break in problems, and any issues we had were always student related party incidents. The other end of Perth by Dorr was another story, constant house and car break ins. And these were not student related.

I dont know what its like on campus these days, but back then there were some scary dudes who would occaisionally walk right into a class to which they were not enrolled. One or two could often be found walking the various halls. They stood out due to dress style and carrying no books. You also had to keep your car doors locked (of course) and nothing of value in them, including radios.

I was a student from 1992 - 1996 and I took no other precautions than I would have on any other college campus or shopping area. Locking doors, and hiding valuables are just common sense anywhere there are a bunch of people milling around, not just UT. Also, I was a freshman in the fall of 1992--about 4 months after that girl got killed by the UT police officer, so a lot more people were sensitive to campus crime about that time and there was a bit of a heavier watch going on.

Of course, not many dipshits were going to break into a 1981 Chevy Chevette for the awesome mono radio anyway.

That's right...you see me rollin' in a 'vette...you hatin'.....

Although others here have disparaged a UT degree, I'm happy with the quality of education I received and I hope the University continues to expand and do well.

It's not Harvard, but it's not DeVry or UoP either. My UT credentials didn't keep me out of a Masters or Ph.D. program at one of the US-News ranked top 50 schools in the country (top 5 in my field). So....it is what you make of it.

However, in terms of physical expansion, the campus really is at it's limitation, I think. I mean, you've got a huge (area-wise) main campus plus the Scott Park area. It's unrealistic to keep buying up land as a "criminal moat".

Meh - I finished one degree and earned two others at UT the last decade and never had experienced remotely close to a crime problem.

And as far as the value of UT degrees: my UT diplomas have opened many employment doors for me. It is a very respectable Midwestern public university, and the only people who bash UT as "Bancroft High" tend to be locals who have nothing better to do than rip on the place. There is a ton of world-class research happening there, and there are talented faculty in a wide range of disciplines.

Does UT have problems? Sure, but so does every American institution of higher education. Is every program top-notch? No, but the same can be said (again) for every other institution in the country. We tend to see UT's faults up close because we live here and watch the news / read the paper / listen to the radio, but for people who live more than 50 miles away, the University of Toledo looks a lot more interesting than it does to local folks.

Is there really a market need for that many new housing (450-600) units around UT? Aren't there already lots of apartment complexes and single family houses to rent?

The university wants to build additional formal dorm buildings, Dappling2, as opposed to informal housing. They believe that they will need more housing in the next decade to attract non-commuter students in an increasingly competitive undergraduate market due to demographic changes in the region (the number of high school graduates will be flat or falling the next 5-7 years after a mini-boom).

Some years back there was quite a bit of controversy about student apartment/home rentals in Toledo. It seems that landlords were renting to multiple students in one unit, which was contrary to City ordinances. I remember tutoring one Asian student in English at her apartment just a block from campus. There were an unbelievable number of people/students living in that one space. The bedrooms were wall to wall mattresses. I dont remember when, but it was a big issue with quite a bit of newspaper reporting. Landlords were really crying the blues over lost income from enforcement. "Inspectors" of some sort were going door to door looking for violations. Students were complaining that they had no place to go and some feared they would have to leave the University altogether for lack of affordable housing.

But I have the same scepticism about the need for such a large numer of units.

To build on what some others have said, I'd agree that an undergrad degree from UT is nothing to scoff at. Realistically, I don't think it's a big deal where your 4 year degree came from. As others have said, they had no problems getting into prestigious schools for graduate programs with a UT degree.

The thing I'd like to see bumped up is our graduate level programs, most notably the law school. I don't know where it ranks now, but when my girlfriend at the time was applying to law schools in '05, UT's requirements were literally in the lowest group of ABA approved schools.

They also had the highest failure rate when students took the bar exam. Poor teaching? Poor student admission standards? Combination? Hard to tell.

HistoryMike...I would like to see Dorr Street slowed down and beautified w/medians, etc. Better pedestrian crosswalks and lighting would be a plus too. The Campus Gateway project is a good start, but the Dorr Street side still needs work. Having a plasma center with people lined up to sell their blood right next to the university is not a selling point when out if towners come to tour the university.

"Some years back there was quite a bit of controversy about student apartment/home rentals in Toledo. It seems that landlords were renting to multiple students in one unit, which was contrary to City ordinances."

Here are some old Toledo Talk threads that may be related:

February 2003 - Byrne Hill Estates being ''overrun'' that excerpted a Toledo Journal story:

February 2003 - Homeowners frustrated with student rentals that excerpted another Toledo Journal story:

December 2003 - UT students upset over housing law that excerpted a Toledo Blade story:

In that same December 2003 thread, excerpts from a story at studentgovernment.utoledo.edu :

"I would like to see Dorr Street slowed down and beautified w/medians, etc"

I think that would be a great move. Making that area more pedestrian-friendly would help promote more businesses to locate there and help build out the Gateway development. The setting is a pretty important factor for a lot of kids when deciding where they want to spend the 4+ most social years of their lives, and UT doesn't have much to offer. Building out this area to provide a multitude of entertainment/dining/etc options would go a long way for the school's image, in my mind. I went to Ohio University, which is about as perfect a college setting as I could imagine. Seeing what the UT campus and surrounding area has to offer, it's just... yeah, it could use an upgrade.

Having a plasma center with people lined up to sell their blood right next to the university is not a selling point when out if towners come to tour the university.

Plasma centers usually are located near universities. It's not something that should stand out when comparing UT to other campuses.

I attended a large university in a nice suburban community, and there was a plasma center a block or two from our campus. I knew people who would sell on Wednesday for their weekend beer money. (I did not, but I knew a lot of people who did.)

spoke with Rick from city diner about this a couple of weeks ago. Bummer that building is going to get torn down. The library bar just sunk a bunch of money into rehabbing their space and rick's place is great as well.

Is there REALLY demand for that much residency in the area? 400 units sounds like a hell of a lot of people to be putting in that space. it's REALLY going to change the traffic patterns over there.

I am sad to learn the former Omni nightclub, and apparently the newer Library bar, may be razed for this project. These were the only entertainment venues, aside from the tiny neighborhood bar Jake's Saloon, on the whole east side of campus.

Omni had about a six year run, opening in 2006 as Gatorz. The main dance floor was huge and kept the original wood from University Lanes - the previous tenant. When it first opened, a couple of the lanes were left intact - not sure if they were functional.

Gatorz closed around late 2008 (I think) and reopened as club Omni before being sold to a new owner who spent over $1 million to spruce it up, adding a very nice VIP area, a super posh back lounge, and outdoor patio bar. The place looked less like a frat house and more like a big city upscale nightclub.

The place was easily the largest nightclub in Toledo. At its peak, on busy club nights, there would be anywhere from 1,000-2,000 people. Finding a parking spot was sometimes a challenge.

I was there for the grand re-opening, and the vibe was incredible. It made me happy that a place like this existed in Toledo.

The venue also hosted some really good national concerts. I remember attending the Kenny Wayne Sheppard Blues Legends Tour, and walking up to a sold out line wrapped around the entire building.

For a couple years, they had rock tribute shows every Friday. Here is a pic from the Led Zeppelin show...

The club's downfall may have been its size. It probably cost a lot to staff and keep it going. I can only imagine their utility bills. Ongoing road construction along N Westwood probably didn't help. Last summer, towards the end of its run, I remember going there on a Tuesday, and the bathrooms looked like they had not been cleaned in weeks. Absolutely filthy. The Tuesday/Thrusday crowd was also down to about 100-300 people.

The place was unique to Toledo, and there may not be anything like it again. If you're interested, here is a link to Flash Toledo, where there are picture galleries for 2009-2011.

There seems to be few bars around UT...strange for a school that size

yeah... my experience at BGSU was bars everywhere!!!

Could the reason that there are a small number of bars around campus compared to BG and other colleges is that UT has a larger commuter student population then they do out of town students who stay in student housing? Commuter students go home at the end of the day to different parts of the area and are probably working as well. No time for partying or they choose bars close to where they live and work.

This.

UT's has a huge problem in that it has no "college town" resident area that is actually linked to the university. Anyone who thinks the linkage of "Behind Engineering" and UT is acceptable is out of their minds. It's literally a quarter-mile from the east side of Westwood Ave to Stadium Drive, and there is Douglas--which functions as an expressway--and the athletics facilities in the way.

I dig the Gateway construction, but it's such a hike from Dorr/Secor to the classes in north campus. It's like a half-mile. That is unacceptable.

It should go without saying, if UT doesn't have a walkable "college town" neighborhood, they will always lose a fair amount of kids to BGSU who actually want to experience those things.

Solutions? For starters Douglas needs to be completely overhauled. It should not be an expressway (aka a gigantic wall bifurcating UT and its student), it's a road and the traffic should be slowed, with proper walk ways for students. Perhaps if they sunk it and built a pedestrian bridge something cool could work.

I don't think Toledo needs to expand for academic space though. Not at all. They need density on-campus. They have a nice thing going on with residential south of Ottawa and academic north of it. Keep that going. There is an entire mini-forest of wasted space that is available. Nobody goes to a university for the ugly cluster of trees; they need to build their next dorms there, between International/Academic and Parks/Greek Village.

Sadly the best place for a "gateway" per se is actually where Maxwells is. I actually think it's the only place. A dense strip of bars on Bancroft, if Douglas ever got revamped, would be really attractive. It's perfectly walkable for all of "Behind Engineering." Being a student at Ohio State, it's a huge advantage to be able to walk home hammered from the bars. It's tough to do that at UT (although I did many times from Omni back to the Academic House haha).

I may have shed a tear when the Pub closed.
But I won't cry for the Omni.

it is surprising the university over the years hasnt had a plan for the lands surrounding it.

the city and the university missed a huge opportunity to find a much better solution for the secor to byrne transition years ago. the plan commission was even tasked with coming up with new designs for that entire area north and west of dorr and secor... but they delayed and then failed and we wound up with college drive and the apartments. the real only roadblock to that process is the att switching building but that could easily have been worked around.

a little bit later when they worked on rocket hall, they blew the chance to just scrape the old josephs grocery store and build from scratch more appropriate buildings, planned in a more appropriate way. i still go into to rocket hall and still just laugh at how awkward the whole damn thing is.

as others have stated, the university needs no more land but needs to manage their density and adjacencies better - living in the crossings must be a bear when getting to classes at u hall or mcmaster.

when the railway line was finally abandoned, ut should have been all over that with long term planning. everything they built on that side of campus should have been done with the intent of bringing douglas and the railroad RoW down to grade. as far as the gatorz, blind pig, and stein site... there is technically a city road through there that ought to be rebuilt as an actual road. let this housing development put up townhouses along the creek but leave the commercial block to be rebuilt with mixed use apartments and or offices over commercial. with the density of the adjacent neighborhood and the major cross-roads this location clearly should be targeted for an urban node type development. but the city continues to take whatever any developer offers.

bringing douglas down to grade improves traffic flow and ease of getting to destinations (including accessing the parking garage on stadium drive that clogs traffic every day); makes douglas safer as speeds would be decreased; and makes the wedge shaped parcel at university hills blvd very important!! i've always though ut should have a better alumni conference center/hotel right there.

i hope the university has a good plan for the schorlings ferdos dowd-white-nash area... they sure have done precious little to this point. it is the best place to make a nice accommodation for their faculty and staff and try to keep them living in old orchard. simultaneously, if the U and the city dont get serious about code enforcement of unrelated people in housing, the housing stock in old orchard will deteriorate... imagine what happened at ann arbor or oxford or dayton.

mixman... thanks for the photos... as an old fart i never dared to go into gatorz. i use to get grief for stopping in jakes before basketball games ;)

BlusterBluth

The "mini forest" "wasted space" "ugly cluster of trees" is part of the Ottawa River Restoration Project, which runs through the UT campus.

http://www.utoledo.edu/commissions/river/archive2012.html

"Phase I, to be completed this summer, will consist of the building of a cut bank feature along 900 feet of river bank adjacent to the UT Law School, which will require tree removal, excavation of fill placed along the river in 1960, new soil, landscaping and plantings with seeding and trees. Phase II, currently in final design stage, involves the use of natural materials including trees and rock to create in-stream habitat for fish and other aquatic organisms, with this work to be completed in August 2013."

Some of what you see will change, other parts will remain. The Toledo Botanical Garden, (which will have spent nearly $500,000 when it's part is completed) and many, many other entities are part of this massive project to improve storm drainage and water quality of the Ottawa River and general Maumee basin watershed.

TBG has removed 38,000 tons of sediment and two dams. The stream rock work is now in place. Native plantings were started in some areas last fall, with the big push planned for this spring. Volunteers Needed!

I trust that the final project of UT's portion will be just as outstanding as TBG's. Its absolutely amazing.

Hi enjoyeverysandwich. I didn't go to ut, but I find this interesting. What do you mean by "bring Douglas road to grade?" I also wondered what the building was on the nw corner of Dorris and sector. It is owned by AT&T? I also don't think students are moving into old orchard as the real estate costs are prohibitive. Thanks!

One question: Why doesn't UT force the college kids stay in dorms there 1st 2 years in college or maybe just there 1st year? I would think this would allow the UT area to have and grow to a college town feeling.

Do they even have enough dorms to force that?

That is a good question and I guess that needs to be answered first. Either way the price at which the other colleges usual charge the dorms would be enough for them to build one and force it. I really think that would force UT area to have a college town feel and for the area to prosper or grow faster.

I'm not sure that would work. There are already UT students who choose to go to Owens for the first two years to get their core requirements out of the way at a lower cost. If UT made it a requirement for freshmen and/or sophomores to live on campus, I think you'd see even more students choosing the Owens route.

I think Freshman at UT are required to live at the dorms. I lived at the Academic House for two years and hated it. Resident freshman are only permitted to park their cars on Scott Park campus and take the bus to the dorms. If I was a high school senior looking at colleges, this would be a deal-breaker for me by itself. One thing I don't understand is UT wants to tear down the quad (about time) and put up a new "Honors" housing. Someone pointed out recently that there's already honors housing at the Academic Center. Why should they want another? I am under the impression the school is having a hard time filling all of the dorms.

Resident freshman are only permitted to park their cars on Scott Park campus and take the bus to the dorms. If I was a high school senior looking at colleges, this would be a deal-breaker for me by itself.

Many colleges don't allow freshmen to bring cars at all, and those that do allow freshmen to get parking permits often banish them to an obnoxiously far parking lot.

It shouldn't be something that reflects negatively on UT versus most other campuses.

Agreed. Very common to not allow cars for freshman.

UT freshmen under the age of 21 are required to live on campus unless they reside with a parent, guardian or spouse, or those who have dependents of their own. I'm guessing that the majority of freshmen who are commuter students are still living at home. BG has a similar rule.

I have a friend who was able to purchase a home before she was 21. I wonder if they would have required that she live on campus.

I have a friend who was able to purchase a home before she was 21. I wonder if they would have required that she live on campus.

Universities are not gulags. I'm sure if the case was made that she was a homeowner in the area (and it wasn't mommy and daddy that really owned the home), an exception would be made. But this would be ultra rare.

Obviously, the rule is in place to keep 18 year olds with their first taste of freedom away from the parental units under some sort of watch or advising (RAs & others). Good rule for 98% of young resident (not commuter) students.

The problem with UT forcing students to live in the dorm or not Drive a car during freshman years is the bus line system is not robust enough to support it. Students can have classes on Nebraska, at the Art museum, downtown, even in Sylvania. The TARTA system is even worse.

Holland the ordinance was passed to stop 1 developer from building a new complex. One council woman sought to fight it because it would displace a historic Black neighborhood that is still run down today.

There are no bars in the area because those that are there TPD harassed the students( saw it with my own eyes) yet ignores the gang members who are clearly not students so the students drive to the bars on the other side of town.

Toledo takes a hostile view towards the students. I've said this countless times.

Door street needs to be revamped to better accommodate the students and to take advantage of the money they bring in. A clean up of the warehouses and abandoned factories at Westwood and door would be the most ideal place. I also think the university should start buying along Westwood to link main campus with Scott park.

Some will remember when discussing a metro rail in Toledo I suggested building over the train tracks that run parallel to Westwood. That would link the campuses and begin the project off of state dollars before the city or count had to invest one penny.

It's been a few years since I was at UT but at the time there was no requirements for freshmen living on campus or where they could park cars. BG requires freshmen that have a permanent address greater than 50 miles from campus to live on campus.

In_vin_vertias, the rule about freshmen residents and cars has been implemented in the past six or seven years, I believe. I seem to recall it going into effect just as a friend's youngest son started there, and it wasn't the rule when my kids were there (though my two did live at home, so it wouldn't have applied to them anyway).

According to UT's website, they have the same 50 mile restriction as BG.

And OHT, as soon as I posted that about my friend, I saw there was a second page to the exemption form on UT's website. I'm pretty sure they would have permitted her to live off campus, too. :)

Why would UT need more student housing? Its enrollment has been slowly declining with its biggest drop this past fall. Current dorms are not at capacity.

Elva, it's a selling point. Crime around campus is really high. Students feel safer on campus because of the constant activity and campus police patrols. I think the university is making another push for in state nontoledoan students they did the same thing from 92-95 and it boosted enrollment for a number of years.

mikeyA - crime is not relatively high around the university... it is on par with other universities.

also, the developer that was preevented from doing the development has had a history of stuffing illegal number of students in units and has even done time for such... the neighborhood you mention is not run down.

and third, the rail line that runs parellel with douglas westwood could connect with the medical campus but to connect with scottpark would require the extention of the track that was used for the rails to trails project... this could still work as the running traill ends before leaving campus... it runs diagnolly and still exists from dorr and byrne to parkside and nebraska.

dappling - douglas ought to be brought back down to grade and intersect bancroft at grade. the interference with the grid at that area causes everyone headaches, students, residents, and businesses down near hill ave. also remove the abandoned rail over pass and get that down to grade as well... improve safety and appearances. safety in the park for pedestrians for autos leaving westwood onto bancroft.

this would also put douglas at the correct elevation to enter the ut parking garage on the correct level to enter it om the east side rather than the west... why bring all those vehicles onto campus and into conflict with all the pedestrians

@slowsol

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Thanks

I agree, the Douglas overpass always seemed like it complicated things more than it helped anything.

Totally agree.

I would probably be a bit more extreme and make Douglas and Westwood into one two-lane, 25mph, road. Make that Toledo's High Street.

I think the Secor Gateway is on the opposite end of campus. That sort of development should be where Maxwell's/Omni are right now. That whole section north of Ottawa River and East of campus should be the center of off-campus life and is quite literally the perfect gateway spot. If UT is ever going to make a "College Town," that's how it'd have to be done.