OK You Progressives and Developmenteers: Where's Our Decomm'd Navy Ship?

Don't we already have a 'boat' museum that is largely ignored?

Why would we have a naval museum here? We have no serious bases nearby, any major military history as far as the navy goes, and no other real military related tourism to draw people in.

maybe you should get in touch with: http://www.maritimeacademy.us/
or even the port authority that has their offices in maritime plaza: http://www.toledoportauthority.org/

they might be able to help you get your idea accomplished GZ! sounds fun! good luck!

Are you kidding, OhKi? A million men were trained at the Great Lakes naval training station during WWII. We even had two aircraft carriers on Lake Erie, albeit for training purposes only:

http://www.dieselpunks.org/profiles/blogs/great-lakes-aircraft-carriers

Oh yeah, dass righ', aircraft carriers. Who da man? <\_\>

Don't we already have a 'boat' museum that is largely ignored?

If by 'ignored' you mean recently repainted, renamed, relocated, and undergoing restoration, then yes...

GZ I think you're confusing "wanting a sustainable economy downtown" with "chasing every batshit crazy idea on mere whims."

Sohio - by largely ignored...I mean I have yet to hear of it or see it being spoke of as a major tourist destination...ever.

Also - "training" on the great lakes is not major naval history.

I would think that a specialist in "ruin porn" would have a different perspective on "ignored."

AH, I see. OK. You do have a point there...the ship IS woefully under-promoted.

The Boyer or what ever its called now?

She is now called the S.S. Col. James M. Schoonmaker!

Cool idea. Promote the museum with two ships. There was a movement maybe ten years ago to have the Oliver Hazard Perry (a decommed frigate) permanently moored here.

Why the Schoonmaker? was that the original name of the ship? Would be nice to find out what the name was when it was first launched.

Oh ok it is the original name, didn't know that,
http://maritimematters.com/2012/10/historic-move-ss-col-james-m-schoonmaker/

BB said: GZ I think you're confusing "wanting a sustainable economy downtown" with "chasing every batshit crazy idea on mere whims."

No, that's why I was asking the Progressives and Developmenteers, who have total control of city politics in this matter.

Hark ye back to my title; I used plain English. If these P&D types are so hot for local development that is flashy and non-industrial (and they are), then where's our naval destroyer? This is a long-standing problem since they scrapped the USS Toledo in 1974 for a lousy $900K. Where were our city fathers then? I think we know what they were doing; passing envelopes filled with union cash. That's Toledo's real politics.

OhKi said: Also - "training" on the great lakes is not major naval history.

ORLY? Then what major events in naval history took place at Fall River MA?

http://www.battleshipcove.com/

Ouch!

What if the city developed night tours of the "central city"? You could outfit a few buses with bulletproof armor plating and have the tours start at midnight. They would start on Woodstock and move into the central city and then on to Lagrange street. Much to see at that time of night. Riders would be offered optional night vision goggles to clearly differentiate the participants. from the dark alleys and streets.

Forget boats. We have live action going down nightly.

AC said: you have actually reached the level of stupid

How? I was just asking all the so-called progressives and development mavens why they've missed out on such an obvious solution. Considering all the money they end up spending on stuff like flower pots and the like, you'd think there was room in their budgets to sweet-talk the US Navy. Heck, the last I heard, you could have driven up to a NASA installation in Florida and arranged to drive off with one of the SSMEs, free of charge.

Remember there, AC, I'm asking. That makes me the asker. I'm asking stuff from the people who were supposed to be doing, hence the doers. Me askey, they (allegedly) doey. See how this works?

Forget it GZ, asking AC to use reason is going too far.

I don't want to have things that were designed to kill massive numbers of people stinking up our waterfront.

Biased much?

"Forget it GZ, asking AC to use reason is going too far."

Why does this deserve reasoning?

"Me askey, they (allegedly) doey."

Here's some obvious reasoning: GZ's post that started this thread was a troll post. He's simply trying to inflame people for his own kicks, but for the most part, people aren't playing along. But I will.

We should focus our energies on more important ideas for downtown Toledo like the ones proposed by Opal Covey.

Or this idea from 2005 :

A docked boat is too damn boring. Smokestack climbing and indoor snowboarding are more interesting activities.

"I don't want to have things that were designed to kill massive numbers of people stinking up our waterfront."

When it comes to military vehicles, I can understand the mixed sentiment. Seeing the Bockscar, the B-29 that dropped Fat Man on Nagasaki, for the first time as an adult on a trip to Wright Patterson Airforce Base recently was a pretty somber experience. It was difficult for me to balance the positives of its existence against the fact that it ended tens of thousands of innocent peoples' lives.

But I don't really think you could say the same thing about a naval vessel. Especially one that isn't a ballistic submarine (ie, one that serves a purpose outside of mass destruction). Nobody (sane) likes warfare, but everyone agrees that it has to exist. It's like saying a relationship should never have an argument. Give it enough time, and it's inevitable.

Look at Toledo's naval history, as some pointed out the Niagara. If not for that ship (and the others under Perry's command), who knows how 1812 would have turned out. Those are things worth celebrating when it comes to hosting a naval vessel.

False premise, as progressives typically don't hold positions of political power.

You might also try contacting the offices of Rep. Marcy Kaptur, or Senators Portman and/or Brown, and see if any of them would like to throw some political muscle behind the idea.

http://www.kaptur.house.gov/
http://www.portman.senate.gov/public/
http://www.brown.senate.gov/

Researcher said: False premise, as progressives typically don't hold positions of political power.

Which letter in "so-called" proved too difficult for you to understand?

ilovetoledo said: I don't want to have things that were designed to kill massive numbers of people stinking up our waterfront.

Well now, I didn't exactly expect to hear that sort of response. But I have no problem with it. Is this a common feeling about ship museums?

It wasn't a letter so much as the omission of the entire phrase in your initial post.

Or the fact that almost all of your posts are completely nonsensical.

Are you expecting a statue of yourself made when you go on that murder spree you keep posting about?

Jr said: A docked boat is too damn boring.

To a certain extent, yes. Once you've been to see the USS Whatever on the shoreline, you're generally not going to see it again. And not everyone is enamored by military displays.

This little idea was bouncing around in my mind, from the two Canadian (?) naval vessels that docked here last summer.

There are other concerns, of course. There's always expense. Take the SS United States, for example:

http://news.yahoo.com/apnewsbreak-historic-ship-short-funds-time-192734819.html

$80000 per month to keep that beast at dock. Seems a shame to scrap a 1000-ft ship, but those fees... brrr!

Researcher said: It wasn't a letter so much as the omission of the entire phrase in your initial post.

Your agenda and selectivity in reading English isn't our problem.

Who keeps posting about a murder spree?

Good thing, as you seem to have plenty of problems without my help.

Have you visited GuestZero's posts in the /p/ forum lately? I also made the mistake of looking at Swamp Bubbles yesterday.

Seems like a stupid thing to do if true...

"As for civil unrest, we responsible citizens will execute rioters. Just watch us. I can execute one rioter each 15 seconds from a distance up to 500 yards. And I'll be wearing a mask, so good luck trying to haul me into court for it later." - GuestZero

Seems like a stupid thing to do if true...

Sorry for the repeated post, it was an accident.

I am glad you asked the question GZ. It was promised and never delivered.

I think a naval ship would be a draw especially if it is historically significant. Many of those I have been on we're cared for by sailors who had retired or long gotten out thus deferring costs.

I never saw the Boyer because I generally could have cared less about merchant shipping on the GL. However being raised by a military history buff I know my Dad would have taken me onto a decommissioned military ship or a 1812 replica. After all he was the person who insisted my childhood vacations were to places like Gettysburg and Yorktown while my friends went to Cedar Point for the unknown time.

...

And you're going to pay for the upkeep of your "free" Navy ship or whatever with what money, since you want all taxation abolished (TEA PARTY! TAXED ENOUGH ALREADY! herp derp!)

I'd say you didn't think your grand plan through, but that would make the assumption you are capable of thought (instead of merely reflex).

Some years back the navy offered to give us the USS Toledo, but the Boyer was chosen as being more representative of the Great Lakes and Toledo. I think it would be a mistake to bring a military vessel permanently to Toledo. Something historical like a sailing vessel would be much better.

Somebody's gotta tell Researcher that war deaths aren't murder. The same logic applies during a civil insurrection, when the militia makes an appearance. Masks are there to stop angsty Liberals from obtaining civil revenge upon the soldiers once the bullet-riddled court buildings re-open.

All this is news to Researcher although his so-called progressive policies are guaranteeing those social upheavals will occur. Well, the rifles will speak while the Liberals squeak, and history marches on.

ILT said: Some years back the navy offered to give us the USS Toledo, but the Boyer was chosen as being more representative[.]

That's local history I didn't know. Do you have more info I can follow up on? Sounds like I'll have to delve into the Blade microfilm files in the library, due to the era (1974).

I can see your point about the sailing ships, since if you're keen to follow Great Lakes history for naval combat, that's the era you'd want. There seem to be far fewer of those ships around, though, unless one is into restoration efforts.

AC said: And you're going to pay for the upkeep of your "free" Navy ship or whatever with what money, since you want all taxation abolished (TEA PARTY! TAXED ENOUGH ALREADY! herp derp!)

It's amazing that you have that much trouble with the same English that came out of your own mouth, since there's a logically vast difference between being taxed enough already, and abolishing all taxation.

Anyway, about the only thing the government could do in this case is donate the naval vessel at the federal level, and donate the docking space at the local level. What's left is all an effort incumbent upon private donation and public attendance. The question is, who can make that work economically?

You neatly ignore the question of who exactly is going to pay for upkeep. Unless, that is, tne ship magically cleans and paints itself and all the heating and lighting and such is also powered by magical unicorn farts.

Rename the ship "Christine" ??

I think it was probably in the 90s when the USS Toledo was considered....I don't remember but I do know for sure we had a chance to get the Toledo. I tried the google news archive but it didnt' come up with anything...it is not complete.

Also, the Brig Niagara visits once per year. I love looking at that.

"I think it was probably in the 90s when the USS Toledo was considered"

I'm not sure about this. The ship Toledo met its end in '74, and the submarine Toledo is still in active service.

Oh great. I pay taxes so you can look at old newspapers? Moocher!

This was actually a funny troll. Probably unintentional, but kudos nonetheless!