Toledo Talk

Level 3 Snow Emergency to be issued for Lucas County at 5:30 pm

Jan 5, 2014 - Blade story

Officials plan to issue Level 3 snow emergency for Lucas County later today

With predictions of heavy snow and bitter cold in the forecast, officials announced today that they will enact the highest snow emergency for Lucas County beginning at 5:30 p.m.

The Level 3 warning means only emergency vehicles should be on the roadways.

The announcement, which was issued through Toledo Mayor D. Michael Collins, was decided during a meeting of emergency responders at the city's Streets, Bridges, and Harbors building at noon.

That's different. I don't think that I've ever seen a snow emergency level issued in advance of the weather, especially one as high as level 3.

This will catch some people off-guard, since today's weather conditions are probably more benign than expected. This afternoon's temps remain around 32 to 33 degrees. Some of this morning's snow has melted. The light snow that began again around Noon is obviously wet. Total snow accumulation thus far is maybe 1.5 inches as of 2:00 p.m., Jan 5. The wind is light to calm.

The snow, however, is still forecast to get heavy later today, dumping several inches on the Toledo area by Monday morning. It will get windy late tonight, although not as cold overnight as originally expected. 5 to 10 above instead of zero. So conditions late tonight and Monday morning should be a bit tough.

Definition:

LEVEL 3: All roadways are closed to non-emergency personnel. No one should be driving during these conditions unless it is absolutely necessary to travel or a personal emergency exists. All employees should contact their employer to see if they should report to work. Those traveling on the roads may subject themselves to arrest.

created by jr on Jan 05, 2014 at 03:00:24 pm
updated by jr on Jan 05, 2014 at 03:15:40 pm
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My work has been closed the last two days. Haven't left the house since Sunday afternoon. Bundled up and made the short walk to the gas station at Willys & Sylvania around 4. Making a beer waddle up the road. The traffic on Sylvania is not much different from any other day. Settling in with my beer and some crock pot chilli and hoping the level 3 gets lifted at midnight.

posted by TrilbyGuy on Jan 07, 2014 at 06:30:44 pm     #  

anonymouscoward posted at 03:29:43 PM on Jan 07, 2014:
justread posted at 02:09:28 PM on Jan 07, 2014:
MrsArcher posted at 01:01:32 PM on Jan 07, 2014:

Sheriff Tharp's facebook indicates Level 3 will not be lifted until midnight tonight. It is not clear if it will be lifted then, or if they are giving a 'no sooner but may be later' time frame.

Midnight. Unbelievable. I almost feel like going out and getting a ticket so I can fight it in court, but that would just take more time away from my business.

It is not being enforced, nor is it truly enforceable. My points on this thread were philosophical. I sat next to a TPD cop at a light this morning and we looked at each other and did the half-smile nod maneuver.

If you do go out, be careful, go slow, and stay off of the expressways. Other than that, carry on.

I saw an interview with Tharp this morning, and he pretty much said as much. He said "hey, if your boss tells you to go to work, you have to go to work." I also heard the term "personal emergency."

"I am getting my prescription filled."
"I am picking my sister up at the hospital."


"I am getting food for the guys at the fire station."


"I am on my way home from work."

Whatever.

Obviously the HVAC guys are working, the private plow drivers are working. Half the restaurants and bars in town are open. In and Out is open. The gas station is open.

This is why I think it is a level 2 in level 3 clothing. All the caution advice. None of the arrests.

No, unread, that was Wood County Sheriff Mark Wasylyshyn with the "if your employer says you gotta come to work, you gotta come to work" remark.

http://www.13abc.com/story/24376623/wood-co-snow-emergency-controversy (watch the video).

"I know I'm not very popular with a lot of people, but I'm not here for a popularity (contest)."

Oh that'll be remembered when he's up for re-election.

I'd like to know how the roads were sooooo much more passable with higher winds IN THE DARK at 4am than they are right now IN BROAD DAYLIGHT. Seems to me "letting" people roam in the night in what was effectively a ground blizzard isn't a smart move.

All the sheriffs sound alike when you're shaving.

Although I like Wasylyshynstein much better than Tharp.

posted by justread on Jan 07, 2014 at 07:04:02 pm     #  

There are tons of people out and about in Lucas County. Apparently when a level 3 is ridiculous, it is ignored.

posted by justread on Jan 07, 2014 at 07:13:41 pm     #   4 people liked this

Drove to Kroger tonight to pick up some items for a sick neighbor. Lots of people shopping. Pretty much everything was back in stock as well.

posted by Ace_Face on Jan 07, 2014 at 08:00:02 pm     #  

justread posted at 06:13:41 PM on Jan 07, 2014:

There are tons of people out and about in Lucas County. Apparently when a level 3 is ridiculous, it is ignored.

Yes, sort of like the smoking prohibition.

posted by SherryET on Jan 07, 2014 at 08:22:07 pm     #   1 person liked this

It sounds like the Level 3 is because of the conditions in the rural areas of Lucas County. Berkey or Bono has issues, so let's make it a county-wide deal. Nope. It doesn't work that way, in my opinion.

This is one of the advantages of living within the city. We're not sidelined as easily as the open areas outside the city.

So Toledoans are doing the right thing and cancelling the Level 3 sissy emergency on their own.

The sheriff can ticket people driving in the corn fields of eastern Lucas County and leave Toledoans alone.

posted by jr on Jan 07, 2014 at 08:22:31 pm     #   4 people liked this

I heard Mayor Collins on WSPD this afternoon and he said that the Level 3 is in effect in Lucas County until noon on Wednesday. He was asked to clarify because media are reporting it will be in effect until midnight tonight, and he persisted in that it will be in effect until noon. Very confusing and important to those of us whose businesses will be closed if a Level 3 is in effect until noon. You can listen to the podcast on the radio's site to see what you think.

posted by Starr15 on Jan 07, 2014 at 08:35:38 pm     #  

I just listened to it on your suggestion. Collins does indicate that his conversation with Tharp just prior to the interview on WSPD made Collins believe that Tharp was likely to keep the level 3 in place until noon Wednesday.

Damn. Tharp might be a dumbass.

posted by justread on Jan 07, 2014 at 09:09:22 pm     #  

I heard the interview and Collins clearly stated level 3 is scheduled to expire at noon Wednesday.

I noticed that morning classes at UT and Lourdes are cancelled but both re-open at noon. Most area schools decided to close Wednesday early this afternoon. All those closings support the notion of a planned expiration of the level 3 at noon.

Sheriff's office maintains that a reevaluation will occur at midnight tonight.

I'm planning on working tomorrow.

posted by jimavolt on Jan 07, 2014 at 09:29:34 pm     #  

Maybe to be safe, he should extend it until April. After all, he did witness an accident and it did scare him.

posted by justread on Jan 07, 2014 at 09:32:50 pm     #   2 people liked this

ugh. when are we going to get confirmation on this? i need to know whether or not to cancel business as usual for tomorrow... most of my employees live no where near work. ugh.

in a related story, i drove downtown for a meeting tonight. roads were beautiful looking but AWFUL to drive on. straight ice or compacted slippery snow. Sure it's plowed, but people should not be driving on it.

posted by upso on Jan 07, 2014 at 09:42:34 pm     #  

I drove on them. They sucked. I went slow. I tested the surface and how the car would react in advance. I anticipated turns. I came to a stop slowly. I approached intersections slowly. I maintained a distance between me and other vehicles. I stayed off of the expressways.
You know, like winter.

It's a level "H."
If you live on a hill, stay home.

posted by justread on Jan 07, 2014 at 09:51:03 pm     #  

the city of toledo's twitter account just confirmed that level 3 gets downgraded to 2 at 11pm today.

posted by upso on Jan 07, 2014 at 10:02:31 pm     #  

justread posted at 08:51:03 PM on Jan 07, 2014:

I drove on them. They sucked. I went slow. I tested the surface and how the car would react in advance. I anticipated turns. I came to a stop slowly. I approached intersections slowly. I maintained a distance between me and other vehicles. I stayed off of the expressways.
You know, like winter.

It's a level "H."
If you live on a hill, stay home.

No, that's an unlevel H. There's a hill, it's not level.

posted by anonymouscoward on Jan 07, 2014 at 10:15:57 pm     #   2 people liked this

I heard Mayor Collins on WSPD this afternoon and he said that the Level 3 is in effect in Lucas County until noon on Wednesday.

I think the sheriff has allowed Collins to run this snow show.

posted by MrsArcher on Jan 07, 2014 at 10:39:11 pm     #   2 people liked this

I was among those who thought that re-issuing the Level Three was probably unnecessary and overzealous -- until I had to go to work today and actually drove out there.

I both went and came home without incident, save for some spinning tires both times I was stopped at the red light at the Trail and Detroit Ave. and I tried to get going again, but it was pretty unnerving out there and I was extremely glad that there was hardly any other traffic to contend with. I drove a considerable length of the Trail (at about 35 mph) and there is no way -- NO way -- it can handle normal commuter traffic until the temps increase enough for salt to work. Sections of it are only drivable in the center lane.

posted by jmleong on Jan 07, 2014 at 11:10:56 pm     #  

It must be my Catholic school upbringing(!), but when they warned you could get arrested if you were out on the street during the Level 3, I stayed home. Heck, I could have used some snacks since I ate all the cheese curls. I never realized any grocery store would be opened until I read the comments here.

posted by Starr15 on Jan 08, 2014 at 12:15:23 am     #   1 person liked this

Jesus. If you want to go into work on a Level 3, nobody is stopping you. You have the freedom of choice to do so (Mrs. Archer)... at your own risk. Risk a crash, a ticket, sitting in an office or retail establishment with no clients/customers. All your risk, so go for it! Nobody is holding a gun to your head. America is still a free country.

posted by toledolen_ on Jan 08, 2014 at 12:17:03 am     #   2 people liked this

toledolen_ posted at 11:17:03 PM on Jan 07, 2014:

Jesus. If you want to go into work on a Level 3, nobody is stopping you. You have the freedom of choice to do so (Mrs. Archer)... at your own risk. Risk a crash, a ticket, sitting in an office or retail establishment with no clients/customers. All your risk, so go for it! Nobody is holding a gun to your head. America is still a free country.

When you are threatened with arrest for traveling, you freedom is being eroded.

I think Tharp's statement "we had to do something or someone was going to get killed" (rough paraphras since I'm on my phone) is instructive - at what point do we stop certain activity all so no one gets killed?

People die in traffic all the time, they die from bad eating habits, they did from all sorts of things. At what point can or should government act to stop it? I say they went too far this time.

posted by MrsArcher on Jan 08, 2014 at 08:48:07 am     #   4 people liked this

Went into work in Maumee yesterday am, left about 4, went and got my haircut in Sylvania (re-scheduled from Monday), headed over to The Fresh Market - they were closed but Costco was doing a brisk business. Went to the "ghetto Kroger" at Monroe and Secor - it was definitely living up to its moniker last night - and was very busy. Drove home and made Adobo chicken tacos for dinner. All without incident. Roads were definitely icy in places, traffic was light except for the semi trucks doing 60 in the ice lanes on 75.

Passed a number of police cars in Sylvania and Toledo. I'm sure the reason they didn't even give me a second glance is because I was driving slowly and cautiously - unlike the idiots I witnessed spun out on the Trail this morning.

If we get the rain that is called for this weekend along with the melting snow piled up along the roads and overnight freezing temps - the fools will be in the ditches everywhere.

posted by Foodie on Jan 08, 2014 at 09:59:35 am     #   1 person liked this

Made it to work this morning off 795. The turnpike was great, the rest was awful.

Watched a guy weave in and out of traffic on 795, then promptly put his Ford Focus into the center median. It felt like instant justice.

posted by slowsol on Jan 08, 2014 at 10:39:45 am     #   7 people liked this

That's called "street justice" <runs and hides back under the pillows>

posted by Mariner on Jan 08, 2014 at 10:46:38 am     #  

Morning commute was uneventful. Slow down and take your time. Numerous ice patches and single lane driving on multi-lane roads.
My liver is thankful that I went back to work.

posted by Hoops on Jan 08, 2014 at 10:51:48 am     #  

The trail is a disaster - huge potholes (eastbound) all the way. This doesn't bode well for my daily commute.

posted by endcycle on Jan 08, 2014 at 11:31:05 am     #  

I noticed them this am on the way in - and they're only going to get larger by the end of the weekend.

posted by Foodie on Jan 08, 2014 at 11:56:15 am     #  

Drove my spouse to Detroit Metro this morning. What a mess! From the Michigan border until 275 it was like driving on a frozen pond. I don't mean just icy--I mean I didn't see the pavement for miles! It should have been closed.

posted by Starr15 on Jan 08, 2014 at 12:24:04 pm     #   2 people liked this

Starr15 posted at 11:24:04 AM on Jan 08, 2014:

Drove my spouse to Detroit Metro this morning. What a mess! From the Michigan border until 275 it was like driving on a frozen pond. I don't mean just icy--I mean I didn't see the pavement for miles! It should have been closed.

It was closed. They sent out a media release asking people not to use I-75 from the Ohio line to Brownstown until noon.

posted by justread on Jan 08, 2014 at 07:11:39 pm     #  

justread posted at 06:11:39 PM on Jan 08, 2014:
Starr15 posted at 11:24:04 AM on Jan 08, 2014:

Drove my spouse to Detroit Metro this morning. What a mess! From the Michigan border until 275 it was like driving on a frozen pond. I don't mean just icy--I mean I didn't see the pavement for miles! It should have been closed.

It was closed. They sent out a media release asking people not to use I-75 from the Ohio line to Brownstown until noon.

Michigan needs to adopt Ohio's level system.

posted by anonymouscoward on Jan 08, 2014 at 08:04:11 pm     #  

They didn't need every person to stay home in an entire county. They just needed people to avoid using one stretch of highway for a few hours.

posted by justread on Jan 08, 2014 at 08:28:38 pm     #   2 people liked this

justread posted at 07:28:38 PM on Jan 08, 2014:

They didn't need every person to stay home in an entire county. They just needed people to avoid using one stretch of highway for a few hours.

As if the rest of the roads in Monroe County were somehow magically BETTER than that stretch of I-75?

There isn't any particular reason the sheriff can't selectively choose, say, townships to be under Level 3, other than that would get to be confusing for anyone who doesn't know where the townships are. Unless I'm missing something in the law that I can't be bothered to look up at the moment.

posted by anonymouscoward on Jan 08, 2014 at 10:54:33 pm     #  

anonymouscoward posted at 09:54:33 PM on Jan 08, 2014:
justread posted at 07:28:38 PM on Jan 08, 2014:

They didn't need every person to stay home in an entire county. They just needed people to avoid using one stretch of highway for a few hours.

As if the rest of the roads in Monroe County were somehow magically BETTER than that stretch of I-75?

There isn't any particular reason the sheriff can't selectively choose, say, townships to be under Level 3, other than that would get to be confusing for anyone who doesn't know where the townships are. Unless I'm missing something in the law that I can't be bothered to look up at the moment.

Some roads in Monroe County were probably better, but it had nothing to do with magic.
Understanding the importance of I-75 and the fact that it is one of the most heavily traveled stretches of highway in the US, they decided to do a concentrated blitz on it for a few hours.

They didn't decide to issue the authority to arrest anybody in the county on any road over it. That would have been stupid.

posted by justread on Jan 09, 2014 at 06:48:43 am     #   3 people liked this

justread posted at 05:48:43 AM on Jan 09, 2014:
anonymouscoward posted at 09:54:33 PM on Jan 08, 2014:
justread posted at 07:28:38 PM on Jan 08, 2014:

They didn't need every person to stay home in an entire county. They just needed people to avoid using one stretch of highway for a few hours.

As if the rest of the roads in Monroe County were somehow magically BETTER than that stretch of I-75?

There isn't any particular reason the sheriff can't selectively choose, say, townships to be under Level 3, other than that would get to be confusing for anyone who doesn't know where the townships are. Unless I'm missing something in the law that I can't be bothered to look up at the moment.

Some roads in Monroe County were probably better, but it had nothing to do with magic.
Understanding the importance of I-75 and the fact that it is one of the most heavily traveled stretches of highway in the US, they decided to do a concentrated blitz on it for a few hours.

They didn't decide to issue the authority to arrest anybody in the county on any road over it. That would have been stupid.

So everyone else in the county suffered so they could divert all resources to I-75 because I-75 turned into complete crap because of all the traffic driving over it that packed it all into solid ice because the sheriff can't close all the roads so they could get proper treatment in the first place.

posted by anonymouscoward on Jan 09, 2014 at 06:38:07 pm     #   1 person liked this

anonymouscoward posted at 05:38:07 PM on Jan 09, 2014:
justread posted at 05:48:43 AM on Jan 09, 2014:
anonymouscoward posted at 09:54:33 PM on Jan 08, 2014:
justread posted at 07:28:38 PM on Jan 08, 2014:

They didn't need every person to stay home in an entire county. They just needed people to avoid using one stretch of highway for a few hours.

As if the rest of the roads in Monroe County were somehow magically BETTER than that stretch of I-75?

There isn't any particular reason the sheriff can't selectively choose, say, townships to be under Level 3, other than that would get to be confusing for anyone who doesn't know where the townships are. Unless I'm missing something in the law that I can't be bothered to look up at the moment.

Some roads in Monroe County were probably better, but it had nothing to do with magic.
Understanding the importance of I-75 and the fact that it is one of the most heavily traveled stretches of highway in the US, they decided to do a concentrated blitz on it for a few hours.

They didn't decide to issue the authority to arrest anybody in the county on any road over it. That would have been stupid.

So everyone else in the county suffered so they could divert all resources to I-75 because I-75 turned into complete crap because of all the traffic driving over it that packed it all into solid ice because the sheriff can't close all the roads so they could get proper treatment in the first place.

No. Because they didn't ask MDOT for help as outlined under the county's contract with MDOT, actually.

posted by justread on Jan 10, 2014 at 12:00:17 pm     #   5 people liked this

Nice one, justread! I'd like to be a fly on the wall during their safety/analysis meeting. I'm a low-level munchkin on my job, but I have to keep taking emergency response awareness training. I guess I assumed that local officials were aware of who to call, when to call, how to request the help, how to recognize who has the authority during a crisis ...

posted by viola on Jan 10, 2014 at 05:21:36 pm     #   1 person liked this

[CITATION NEEDED]

posted by anonymouscoward on Jan 10, 2014 at 11:03:09 pm     #  

County officials failed to ask the Michigan Department of Transportation for help.
Read more at http://www.toledoblade.com/local/2014/01/10/Monroe-Co-cites-lack-of-funds-for-snow-woes.html#p4yt204bmAkM0Xp8.99

posted by justread on Jan 10, 2014 at 11:07:16 pm     #  

I want Cupcake to have what he needs. Poor widdle fella.

posted by justread on Jan 10, 2014 at 11:09:18 pm     #  

I want Cupcake to have what he needs. Poor widdle fella.

posted by justread on Jan 10, 2014 at 11:09:21 pm     #  

Sweet. Dually.

posted by justread on Jan 10, 2014 at 11:11:00 pm     #  

justread posted at 10:07:16 PM on Jan 10, 2014:

County officials failed to ask the Michigan Department of Transportation for help.
Read more at http://www.toledoblade.com/local/2014/01/10/Monroe-Co-cites-lack-of-funds-for-snow-woes.html#p4yt204bmAkM0Xp8.99

Hate to tell you and the other 5 morons who upvoted your comment above this but your little Blade article (and I don't usually give The Blade any clicks so pardon me for not having seen the article) backs up my argument.

They actually DID need everyone to stay home:

“It hurt us that we weren’t able to shut the county down,” Mr. Pierce said. “The stranded cars blocked the roads and slowed us down. If they could have shut this down like they did in Toledo, we’d have had these roads open.”
It was particularly unacceptable, Mr. Lievens said, that there was no announcement urging motorists to stay off the roads until “late Tuesday,” by which time abandoned cars were a widespread problem that blocked plows and depleted the availability of tow trucks.

As I said, the traffic packed it all down into impassable sheets of ice, plus it made even trying to clear it harder. And if everyone would have stayed off the roads, they maybe (and we can argue back and forth on that if you really want to) would have made headway enough to either have avoided having I-75 turn into a disaster area that required them to close it, or made enough headway on the other roads to divert a couple more plows to make headway on I-75 after having cleared out other roads.

The fact that they're looking into how to emulate the Snow Emergency Level system further backs up my argument that they really needed people to stay home county-wide.

No such system exists in Michigan. Mr. Bosanac said he is consulting county lawyers to determine if such an alert-level system could be established.

Yes, we can argue that they are resource-strapped and you can go on theorizing that if they had double the plows out they could have kept the roads open and I could argue that even with double the plows they'd still have been slowed down by all the morons who wrecked or stalled out or otherwise fouled the roads.

Yeah, Monroe County screwed the pooch, but you ought to be the first to admit they shouldn't have needed to do a "concentrated blitz" on I-75 in the first place had they been able to SHUT. DOWN. EVERYTHING. so they, for example, didn't have to run plow trucks to dig out morons who stalled so the tow trucks could tow them so they could plow the roads properly, so they could have focused on main roads and all that without as much traffic packing everything into ice, etc. etc.

Yes, the horrible oppressive government and their Level 3 Snow Emergencies suck, but they were in specific meteorological conditions where instead of it being 15-25 degrees where salt is still effective and the snow on the road either remains wet/slushy or soft/snowy when traffic passes over it, it was sub-zero where the traffic effectively packed it into solid ice. Better to have leverage to keep people off the roads (ticketing/arrest) so they STAY off the roads and don't make them worse, than to let them run amok and then have to deal with the stalled-out/off-in-the-ditch stranded morons making the roads worse (both in surface condition and in obstacles to avoid).

posted by anonymouscoward on Jan 11, 2014 at 12:55:29 am     #   3 people liked this

anonymouscoward posted at 11:55:29 PM on Jan 10, 2014:
justread posted at 10:07:16 PM on Jan 10, 2014:

County officials failed to ask the Michigan Department of Transportation for help.
Read more at http://www.toledoblade.com/local/2014/01/10/Monroe-Co-cites-lack-of-funds-for-snow-woes.html#p4yt204bmAkM0Xp8.99

Hate to tell you and the other 5 morons who upvoted your comment above this but your little Blade article (and I don't usually give The Blade any clicks so pardon me for not having seen the article) backs up my argument.

They actually DID need everyone to stay home:

“It hurt us that we weren’t able to shut the county down,” Mr. Pierce said. “The stranded cars blocked the roads and slowed us down. If they could have shut this down like they did in Toledo, we’d have had these roads open.”
It was particularly unacceptable, Mr. Lievens said, that there was no announcement urging motorists to stay off the roads until “late Tuesday,” by which time abandoned cars were a widespread problem that blocked plows and depleted the availability of tow trucks.

As I said, the traffic packed it all down into impassable sheets of ice, plus it made even trying to clear it harder. And if everyone would have stayed off the roads, they maybe (and we can argue back and forth on that if you really want to) would have made headway enough to either have avoided having I-75 turn into a disaster area that required them to close it, or made enough headway on the other roads to divert a couple more plows to make headway on I-75 after having cleared out other roads.

The fact that they're looking into how to emulate the Snow Emergency Level system further backs up my argument that they really needed people to stay home county-wide.

No such system exists in Michigan. Mr. Bosanac said he is consulting county lawyers to determine if such an alert-level system could be established.

Yes, we can argue that they are resource-strapped and you can go on theorizing that if they had double the plows out they could have kept the roads open and I could argue that even with double the plows they'd still have been slowed down by all the morons who wrecked or stalled out or otherwise fouled the roads.

Yeah, Monroe County screwed the pooch, but you ought to be the first to admit they shouldn't have needed to do a "concentrated blitz" on I-75 in the first place had they been able to SHUT. DOWN. EVERYTHING. so they, for example, didn't have to run plow trucks to dig out morons who stalled so the tow trucks could tow them so they could plow the roads properly, so they could have focused on main roads and all that without as much traffic packing everything into ice, etc. etc.

Yes, the horrible oppressive government and their Level 3 Snow Emergencies suck, but they were in specific meteorological conditions where instead of it being 15-25 degrees where salt is still effective and the snow on the road either remains wet/slushy or soft/snowy when traffic passes over it, it was sub-zero where the traffic effectively packed it into solid ice. Better to have leverage to keep people off the roads (ticketing/arrest) so they STAY off the roads and don't make them worse, than to let them run amok and then have to deal with the stalled-out/off-in-the-ditch stranded morons making the roads worse (both in surface condition and in obstacles to avoid).

Hate to tell you and the other 5 morons who upvoted your comment

No you don't. You started with calling them morons. It was your main point. Don't be sad that everybody doesn't agree with you Cupcake. It happens to the best of us, also.

posted by justread on Jan 11, 2014 at 07:33:52 am     #   2 people liked this

Here's the bottom line Anonymous Cupcake:
A community can either:
TEACH the practical appliction of physics in school.
WARN people when the snow is deeper than their tires.
REQUEST that people postpone non-essential travel during peak snow removal operations.
ALLOW people who are equipped to go about their business.
PRESERVE law enforcement resources for actual problems.
If they make bad decisions and have problems, that's called "learning."

Or, we assume everybody is too stupid for their own good and attempt to LEGISLATE common sense.

I promise to stay away from snow plows when I am out driving my Hummer in the snow doing nice things for my enviro-weenie friends who are unable to use their Prius, umkay?

posted by justread on Jan 11, 2014 at 09:13:46 am     #  

I see that I need to buy a vowel. :)

posted by justread on Jan 11, 2014 at 09:21:18 am     #  

justread posted at 08:13:46 AM on Jan 11, 2014:

Here's the bottom line Anonymous Cupcake:
A community can either:

TEACH the practical appliction of physics in school.

WARN people when the snow is deeper than their tires.

REQUEST that people postpone non-essential travel during peak snow removal operations.

ALLOW people who are equipped to go about their business.

PRESERVE law enforcement resources for actual problems.

If they make bad decisions and have problems, that's called "learning."

Or, we assume everybody is too stupid for their own good and attempt to LEGISLATE common sense.

I promise to stay away from snow plows when I am out driving my Hummer in the snow doing nice things for my enviro-weenie friends who are unable to use their Prius, umkay?

There's the voice of reason.

In November of 2008, about 2000 motorists of one stripe or another got stranded on I-90 between Janesville and Madison Wisconsin. A major snowstorm rolled over the area starting early on Friday afternoon. By 5:00 PM experienced drivers were having trouble with the surface streets. Since I-90 is on an upward incline from Chicago to Mad City, the traffic started going slower, and slower, and slower... until everything ground to a halt among spinning tires, shattered tempers and bent minds. They stayed out on that highway the entire night, with the National Guard bringing in blankets and water.

The Great Unwashed had plenty of warning that this mountain of snow was coming, but instead of hunkering down in their apartment in the Big Windy, the upper middle class idiots left the office early Friday afternoon, packed the family into the four wheel drive gas guzzler and headed for their holiday home in Door County, Wisconsin to enjoy an anticipated three or more day weekend. What they didn't understand was that the four wheel drive vehicle that has never once been used in a real off-road situation requires open space and a skilled driver. Having neither, they all got stuck in the snow. All night.

You'd think this might be a learning and growth experience, but it probably wasn't. The major complaints were that the government didn't warn them strongly enough, and that the government didn't do enough for them when they all got stuck. Go figure, right?

So going along with JustRead's philosophy here, my thought is that you should have enough sense not to play on the railroad tracks, not to touch the stove to see if it's hot and not to drive under significantly adverse conditions. If you do and the government has to rescue you, you can jolly well pay for the tow and the aggravation you've caused.

The assumption that everybody is too stupid for their own good shouldn't be applied, as it effects those of us who fail to shoot ourselves in the foot because we observe Rule #2. At the same time, I'm willing to give you ten to one odds that you can find one-third of the drivers on the road today that are too stupid to be allowed to drive. Let's begin by getting those idiots off the road, shall we?

posted by madjack on Jan 11, 2014 at 02:08:00 pm     #  

Hey Jackson, I don't need or want the government to teach me anything.

My parents taught me not to play on the tracks, not to touch a hot stove and how to drive in winter weather.

Truth be told, my dad also taught me how to put coins on the tracks and how to safely collect them after a train runs them over and squishes them. The key then is not playing on the tracks when a train would make that playing unsafe.

He also taught me how to safely touch a hot stoves and other things; by using gloves, oven mits and even some asbestos cloth that he kept around the garage.

See, the lessons aren't NOT to do it, but rather HOW TO DO IT SAFELY.

We ought to have a drink sometime - it's been 2 long.

Cheers,

Jim

posted by jimavolt on Jan 11, 2014 at 02:58:59 pm     #  

Egg zacktly. ^^

posted by justread on Jan 11, 2014 at 03:44:43 pm     #  

jimavolt posted at 01:58:59 PM on Jan 11, 2014:

Hey Jackson, I don't need or want the government to teach me anything.

My parents taught me not to play on the tracks, not to touch a hot stove and how to drive in winter weather.

Truth be told, my dad also taught me how to put coins on the tracks and how to safely collect them after a train runs them over and squishes them. The key then is not playing on the tracks when a train would make that playing unsafe.

He also taught me how to safely touch a hot stoves and other things; by using gloves, oven mits and even some asbestos cloth that he kept around the garage.

See, the lessons aren't NOT to do it, but rather HOW TO DO IT SAFELY.

We ought to have a drink sometime - it's been 2 long.

Cheers,

Jim

People are fucking idiots and morons of all stripes will be out on the roads justifying their trip with whatever excuses they can. Government having the power to say "okay roads are closed, if you drive on them we'll be more than happy to ticket and possibly arrest your stupid asses" just provides additional incentive to many to not hop in the car and be stupid, in the same way that government saying "drink and drive and we'll lock your ass up" provides additional incentive to many to not get behind the wheel after having a few.

Then again I could point out that RR tracks are private property and your dad taught you to disrespect said private property, Jimmy.

In the case of severe winter weather to the extent we got with the storm, I'll happily choose government closing the roads and fining the fuck out of anyone not on them with a damn good excuse over not closing them and then having my fuckin' tax and other dollars going to cops/fire/rescue/EMS overtime to deal with accidents/rescues and all the morons ending up in the ER after they get in 50-car pileups or slide off into the ditches that jack up my healthcare costs or go to Medicaid. Or my fuckin' tax dollars going to plow driver overtime because the traffic on the roads made the roads harder to plow and clear.

For every one person who CAN do something safely, there's half a dozen who THINK they can and one or two of those who fuck it up royally.

posted by anonymouscoward on Jan 11, 2014 at 04:00:38 pm     #   1 person liked this

anonymouscoward posted at 03:00:38 PM on Jan 11, 2014:
jimavolt posted at 01:58:59 PM on Jan 11, 2014:

Hey Jackson, I don't need or want the government to teach me anything.

My parents taught me not to play on the tracks, not to touch a hot stove and how to drive in winter weather.

Truth be told, my dad also taught me how to put coins on the tracks and how to safely collect them after a train runs them over and squishes them. The key then is not playing on the tracks when a train would make that playing unsafe.

He also taught me how to safely touch a hot stoves and other things; by using gloves, oven mits and even some asbestos cloth that he kept around the garage.

See, the lessons aren't NOT to do it, but rather HOW TO DO IT SAFELY.

We ought to have a drink sometime - it's been 2 long.

Cheers,

Jim

People are fucking idiots and morons of all stripes will be out on the roads justifying their trip with whatever excuses they can. Government having the power to say "okay roads are closed, if you drive on them we'll be more than happy to ticket and possibly arrest your stupid asses" just provides additional incentive to many to not hop in the car and be stupid, in the same way that government saying "drink and drive and we'll lock your ass up" provides additional incentive to many to not get behind the wheel after having a few.

Then again I could point out that RR tracks are private property and your dad taught you to disrespect said private property, Jimmy.

In the case of severe winter weather to the extent we got with the storm, I'll happily choose government closing the roads and fining the fuck out of anyone not on them with a damn good excuse over not closing them and then having my fuckin' tax and other dollars going to cops/fire/rescue/EMS overtime to deal with accidents/rescues and all the morons ending up in the ER after they get in 50-car pileups or slide off into the ditches that jack up my healthcare costs or go to Medicaid. Or my fuckin' tax dollars going to plow driver overtime because the traffic on the roads made the roads harder to plow and clear.

For every one person who CAN do something safely, there's half a dozen who THINK they can and one or two of those who fuck it up royally.

Ohhh Cupcake. You make a great point. The drunk driving problem is much, much greater than the "driving while snowy" problem. And it happens ALL YEAR LONG!
Let's outlaw cars and solve it once and for all.

posted by justread on Jan 11, 2014 at 04:06:01 pm     #  

Another great idea Cupcake. You mention "your fuckin' tax dollars" twice as the justification for your opinion and how right it is. That's genius. Those of us who pay more in taxes should get more representation. I should get at least two votes.

You are on fire.

posted by justread on Jan 11, 2014 at 04:15:15 pm     #  

Hmmm. Here is a wrinkle CC: with a damn good excuse.

Is there an excuse breathalyzer now?
Blow a .08 on the excuse meter and you get a ride (in dangerous driving conditions remember) downtown?
Or are giving judge badges to Barney Fife?

posted by justread on Jan 11, 2014 at 04:23:59 pm     #   1 person liked this

Now cupcake, let's say, hypothetically... I don't really have a need to drive in the level 3. BUT, I happen to have an administration job at a place that never closes. I can drive whenever I want, because my ID badge is super official looking.

The poor schmuck next door is middle manager at a regular old business. He doesn't even have a badge.

You are so unfair. Randy Oostra has to make the beer run for the entire neighborhood.

posted by justread on Jan 11, 2014 at 04:30:00 pm     #  

I got wind of some behind-the-scenes stuff yesterday that I had not heard before with regard to the County going to Level 2 Monday afternoon - rumor has it that Jeep had a contract that needed to be finished and if they couldn't work they would incur major penalties, so the sheriff at the urging of the county commissioners rolled back the Level 3 on Monday so that Jeep could call workers in to finish the project and then went back to Level 3 when they got the all clear from Jeep.

I have no first-hand sources on this, its all second hand but from some politically-connected people who have had solid inside information before.

Just thought it was interesting.

posted by MrsArcher on Jan 11, 2014 at 07:54:08 pm     #  

Random question: Is it odd that Lucas County, Ohio and Lucas County, Iowa BOTH had a new Sheriff named Tharp come into office in 2013?

posted by justread on Jan 11, 2014 at 08:07:15 pm     #  

This would be a breach of public trust to maneuver snow emergency levels for any employer. I certainly hope it isn’t true as you have indicated you heard.

posted by Nyse on Jan 11, 2014 at 08:25:21 pm     #  

MrsArcher posted at 06:54:08 PM on Jan 11, 2014:

I got wind of some behind-the-scenes stuff yesterday that I had not heard before with regard to the County going to Level 2 Monday afternoon - rumor has it that Jeep had a contract that needed to be finished and if they couldn't work they would incur major penalties, so the sheriff at the urging of the county commissioners rolled back the Level 3 on Monday so that Jeep could call workers in to finish the project and then went back to Level 3 when they got the all clear from Jeep.

I have no first-hand sources on this, its all second hand but from some politically-connected people who have had solid inside information before.

Just thought it was interesting.

I heard the same thing.

posted by dell_diva on Jan 11, 2014 at 09:29:45 pm     #  

MrsArcher, I don't think the Jeep thing was a big secret. I watch very little TV (compared to most) but I did have the tube on for weather reports on & off throughout the storm. When Lucas went to Level 2, I understood it was specifically to let the big employers have a second shift that day.

My knucklehead cousin, now ... who has the f-ing TV on all day, every day, woke up and drove to work BOTH DAYS without calling her employers to check and see if she was even needed. She arrived at the empty, locked building and went home. WTF.

posted by viola on Jan 12, 2014 at 11:46:34 am     #  

justread's being really really inflammatory. He needs some time in the /p/enalty box or something.

posted by anonymouscoward on Jan 12, 2014 at 11:54:06 am     #   3 people liked this

I just wanna know how many cupcakes we have. I'm so freakin' polite always hate to take the last one.

posted by Mariner on Jan 12, 2014 at 12:04:41 pm     #   1 person liked this

The amount of logical fallacies and poor argumentation in this thread is astounding and erodes my faith in humanity. And it is not on both sides of the argument, or at least far and away not to equal extent.

posted by RobJelf on Jan 12, 2014 at 12:14:41 pm     #  

viola posted at 10:46:34 AM on Jan 12, 2014:

MrsArcher, I don't think the Jeep thing was a big secret. I watch very little TV (compared to most) but I did have the tube on for weather reports on & off throughout the storm. When Lucas went to Level 2, I understood it was specifically to let the big employers have a second shift that day.

My knucklehead cousin, now ... who has the f-ing TV on all day, every day, woke up and drove to work BOTH DAYS without calling her employers to check and see if she was even needed. She arrived at the empty, locked building and went home. WTF.

I don't watch the news, so I have no way of knowing how it was conveyed. But I doubt very seriously it was conveyed in a manner that included the fact they were going back to level 3 on Tuesday.

I don't know which is more disconcerting - that the county played with the snow emergency levels to accomodate one employer, with less than 5,000 jobs (how many employees do they have now?) and screw the other thousands of hourly workers and businesses who couldn't go to work absent the threat of a ticket (does that ticket come with points or not?) or that absent that pressure from Jeep we would have been under a level 3 for 55 hours when the storm lasted less than 12.

I said as soon as the original Level 3 was announced thru the mayors office that I didn't think Tharp was pulling the strings.

posted by MrsArcher on Jan 12, 2014 at 12:26:23 pm     #  

MrsArcher posted at 11:26:23 AM on Jan 12, 2014:
viola posted at 10:46:34 AM on Jan 12, 2014:

MrsArcher, I don't think the Jeep thing was a big secret. I watch very little TV (compared to most) but I did have the tube on for weather reports on & off throughout the storm. When Lucas went to Level 2, I understood it was specifically to let the big employers have a second shift that day.

My knucklehead cousin, now ... who has the f-ing TV on all day, every day, woke up and drove to work BOTH DAYS without calling her employers to check and see if she was even needed. She arrived at the empty, locked building and went home. WTF.

I don't watch the news, so I have no way of knowing how it was conveyed. But I doubt very seriously it was conveyed in a manner that included the fact they were going back to level 3 on Tuesday.

I don't know which is more disconcerting - that the county played with the snow emergency levels to accomodate one employer, with less than 5,000 jobs (how many employees do they have now?) and screw the other thousands of hourly workers and businesses who couldn't go to work absent the threat of a ticket (does that ticket come with points or not?) or that absent that pressure from Jeep we would have been under a level 3 for 55 hours when the storm lasted less than 12.

I said as soon as the original Level 3 was announced thru the mayors office that I didn't think Tharp was pulling the strings.

Oh depending on what they want to hit you with for driving during a Level 3 you can get lots of points:

http://bmv.ohio.gov/orc_offense_conviction_code_lst.stm

Driving on closed highway is good for 2 points.
Reckless operation is 4 points.
Failure to obey police order is 2 points.
etc. etc.

posted by anonymouscoward on Jan 12, 2014 at 12:41:05 pm     #  

While we're at it, if someone was pulling the strings for Jeep, that would be right up there with Chris Christie's little bridge problem... let's create problems for everyone except our choice employer.

posted by anonymouscoward on Jan 12, 2014 at 12:43:51 pm     #  

Robjelf said:

The amount of logical fallacies and poor argumentation in this thread is astounding and erodes my faith in humanity. And it is not on both sides of the argument, or at least far and away not to equal extent.

What the hell does that mean? It's nebulous tripe. I can't tell what side of the discussion he's on . . .

posted by jimavolt on Jan 12, 2014 at 02:13:02 pm     #   1 person liked this

anonymouscoward posted at 10:54:06 AM on Jan 12, 2014:

justread's being really really inflammatory. He needs some time in the /p/enalty box or something.

"Cupcake" is inflammatory?
It was a term of endearment.

Suddenly you stopped calling me "unread?"
Gee AC, I just figured that after two dozen instances of you calling me "unread" with no reaction from me, you could put up with Anonymous Cupcake without calling mom to intervene.

I guess your neighborhood has all one-way streets.

posted by justread on Jan 12, 2014 at 03:47:00 pm     #  

anonymouscoward posted at 11:41:05 AM on Jan 12, 2014:
MrsArcher posted at 11:26:23 AM on Jan 12, 2014:
viola posted at 10:46:34 AM on Jan 12, 2014:

MrsArcher, I don't think the Jeep thing was a big secret. I watch very little TV (compared to most) but I did have the tube on for weather reports on & off throughout the storm. When Lucas went to Level 2, I understood it was specifically to let the big employers have a second shift that day.

My knucklehead cousin, now ... who has the f-ing TV on all day, every day, woke up and drove to work BOTH DAYS without calling her employers to check and see if she was even needed. She arrived at the empty, locked building and went home. WTF.

I don't watch the news, so I have no way of knowing how it was conveyed. But I doubt very seriously it was conveyed in a manner that included the fact they were going back to level 3 on Tuesday.

I don't know which is more disconcerting - that the county played with the snow emergency levels to accomodate one employer, with less than 5,000 jobs (how many employees do they have now?) and screw the other thousands of hourly workers and businesses who couldn't go to work absent the threat of a ticket (does that ticket come with points or not?) or that absent that pressure from Jeep we would have been under a level 3 for 55 hours when the storm lasted less than 12.

I said as soon as the original Level 3 was announced thru the mayors office that I didn't think Tharp was pulling the strings.

Oh depending on what they want to hit you with for driving during a Level 3 you can get lots of points:

http://bmv.ohio.gov/orc_offense_conviction_code_lst.stm

Driving on closed highway is good for 2 points.
Reckless operation is 4 points.

Failure to obey police order is 2 points.

etc. etc.

It's all about the quality of the excuse.

posted by justread on Jan 12, 2014 at 03:58:14 pm     #   1 person liked this

Mariner posted at 11:04:41 AM on Jan 12, 2014:

I just wanna know how many cupcakes we have. I'm so freakin' polite always hate to take the last one.

Don't eat the cupcake.
There's one serving of etoufee err, effete though.

posted by justread on Jan 12, 2014 at 04:00:55 pm     #   2 people liked this

I traveled on north and south I-75 from 6 a.m. until 9:30 a.m. on Wednesday. The Level 3 had been lifted and I had not heard/viewed/read that they wanted people to stay off from the expressway. Interestingly, the majority of I-75 was passable, but there was about a 5-mile stretch through the Monroe exits that was extremely bad.

My question is--why didn't they actually close that section? What good does it do to use the media to ask people to stay off the highway when you can't be assured everyone is getting the message? To be effective, law enforcement needed to force people off the expressway.

posted by Starr15 on Jan 12, 2014 at 08:39:29 pm     #   1 person liked this

justread posted at 03:00:55 PM on Jan 12, 2014:
Mariner posted at 11:04:41 AM on Jan 12, 2014:

I just wanna know how many cupcakes we have. I'm so freakin' polite always hate to take the last one.

Don't eat the cupcake.
There's one serving of etoufee err, effete though.

Ohhhhh... man, is that ever bad. That is so bad.

Bad dog, JustRead. No biscuit.

posted by madjack on Jan 13, 2014 at 11:10:40 am     #  

jimavolt posted at 01:13:02 PM on Jan 12, 2014:

Robjelf said:

The amount of logical fallacies and poor argumentation in this thread is astounding and erodes my faith in humanity. And it is not on both sides of the argument, or at least far and away not to equal extent.

What the hell does that mean? It's nebulous tripe. I can't tell what side of the discussion he's on . . .

He's practicing his campaign speeches.

posted by madjack on Jan 13, 2014 at 11:24:55 am     #  

anonymouscoward posted at 10:54:06 AM on Jan 12, 2014:

justread's being really really inflammatory. He needs some time in the /p/enalty box or something.

Teacher! Teacher! JustRead's playing with matches again. Put him out in the hall...

...with MadJack, who got sent out of class as punishment for allowing AC to make an ass out of himself again, and has been patiently waiting for JustRead to screw up and get sent out of the classroom so we can ditch school and find some intelligent conversation at a bar somewhere.

posted by madjack on Jan 13, 2014 at 11:29:40 am     #  

MrsArcher posted at 07:48:07 AM on Jan 08, 2014:
toledolen_ posted at 11:17:03 PM on Jan 07, 2014:

Jesus. If you want to go into work on a Level 3, nobody is stopping you. You have the freedom of choice to do so (Mrs. Archer)... at your own risk. Risk a crash, a ticket, sitting in an office or retail establishment with no clients/customers. All your risk, so go for it! Nobody is holding a gun to your head. America is still a free country.

When you are threatened with arrest for traveling, you freedom is being eroded.

I think Tharp's statement "we had to do something or someone was going to get killed" (rough paraphras since I'm on my phone) is instructive - at what point do we stop certain activity all so no one gets killed?

People die in traffic all the time, they die from bad eating habits, they did from all sorts of things. At what point can or should government act to stop it? I say they went too far this time.

Ok.

So, in other words, if a freighter is coming into port and the MLK bridge is raised; and you decide you want to attempt to cross it anyway, and some combination of lights, a gate, and a jackbooted thug cop wants to try and stop you, that's an assault on your freedom. Right?

posted by Sohio on Jan 13, 2014 at 12:44:05 pm     #   1 person liked this

The bridge wasn't raised. It just had snow on it.

posted by justread on Jan 13, 2014 at 01:11:04 pm     #   2 people liked this

Sohio posted at 11:44:05 AM on Jan 13, 2014:
MrsArcher posted at 07:48:07 AM on Jan 08, 2014:
toledolen_ posted at 11:17:03 PM on Jan 07, 2014:

Jesus. If you want to go into work on a Level 3, nobody is stopping you. You have the freedom of choice to do so (Mrs. Archer)... at your own risk. Risk a crash, a ticket, sitting in an office or retail establishment with no clients/customers. All your risk, so go for it! Nobody is holding a gun to your head. America is still a free country.

When you are threatened with arrest for traveling, you freedom is being eroded.

I think Tharp's statement "we had to do something or someone was going to get killed" (rough paraphras since I'm on my phone) is instructive - at what point do we stop certain activity all so no one gets killed?

People die in traffic all the time, they die from bad eating habits, they did from all sorts of things. At what point can or should government act to stop it? I say they went too far this time.

Ok.

So, in other words, if a freighter is coming into port and the MLK bridge is raised; and you decide you want to attempt to cross it anyway, and some combination of lights, a gate, and a jackbooted thug cop wants to try and stop you, that's an assault on your freedom. Right?

Yeah, sure is, I mean, clearly we should let anyone who feels like it try all the Dukes of Hazzard and Blues Brothers type car jumps whenever they feel like it, and remove the gates and lights to cut down on taxpayer expenses because personal responsibility means anyone who happens to walk or drive onto the opening or opened bridge is responsible to the rest of us who get held up by any damage to the bridge or rescue attempt or what have you. So let Cletus try to jump the gap, I'll be happy to collect money for my lost time and gas when his flaming wreckage closes the bridge. And if Cletus doesn't have insurance, well I guess I'll sue his parents and baby momma and kids Darryl and Darryl as the next of kin!

posted by anonymouscoward on Jan 13, 2014 at 01:14:14 pm     #  

I had an elderly relative take someone to DTW during the level 3. She survived just fine in a small 4×4. That's the choice she made, having weighed her options as a reasonable, free citizen.

She wouldn't have jumped the MLK bridge while it was being raised. She would, however, have called it the "Cherry Street Bridge."

posted by justread on Jan 13, 2014 at 01:45:20 pm     #   2 people liked this

justread posted at 12:45:20 PM on Jan 13, 2014:

I had an elderly relative take someone to DTW during the level 3. She survived just fine in a small 4×4. That's the choice she made, having weighed her options as a reasonable, free citizen.

She wouldn't have jumped the MLK bridge while it was being raised. She would, however, have called it the "Cherry Street Bridge."

posted by anonymouscoward on Jan 13, 2014 at 02:18:18 pm     #  

She wouldn't have jumped the MLK bridge while it was being raised. She would, however, have called it the "Cherry Street Bridge."

I thought that bridge was called the 'Carty Cafe.' I occasionally stop on that bridge, but I never see anyone selling coffee and hot dogs.

posted by jr on Jan 13, 2014 at 03:19:17 pm     #  

I remember that well.

They could do the "Craig Cafe" for the next few months on the Craig Bridge. It will be closed for painting. (Who paints in January?)

She calls that the "old I-280" by the way, more racism? :D

posted by justread on Jan 13, 2014 at 03:24:06 pm     #  

So, in other words, if a freighter is coming into port and the MLK bridge is raised; and you decide you want to attempt to cross it anyway, and some combination of lights, a gate, and a jackbooted thug cop wants to try and stop you, that's an assault on your freedom. Right?

Not even close. If the MLK bridge is raised, there still are various routes to cross the river, though it may take me longer to go those alternate routes. That is totally different than telling me I may be subject to arrest for driving my car on a road, any road.

How far, really, will people let the government go?

This may be slightly off topic, but my daughter rolls her eyes anytime the Hunger Games come up in conversation with me. I detest that movie, and am seriously concerned on how far the citizens of this country will let the government go simply because no one sees the problem with the premise of the movie.

Can we honestly say the Hunger Games will/can never happen? "It's just a movie!" intones my daughter. Really? Is it?

How far will we let the government go?

posted by MrsArcher on Jan 13, 2014 at 04:27:03 pm     #   1 person liked this

Not even close. If the MLK bridge is raised, there still are various routes to cross the river, though it may take me longer to go those alternate routes. That is totally different than telling me I may be subject to arrest for driving my car on a road, any road.

*Unless a random officer "approves" a random excuse. Which is scary also.

posted by justread on Jan 13, 2014 at 04:29:11 pm     #   1 person liked this

MrsArcher posted at 03:27:03 PM on Jan 13, 2014:

So, in other words, if a freighter is coming into port and the MLK bridge is raised; and you decide you want to attempt to cross it anyway, and some combination of lights, a gate, and a jackbooted thug cop wants to try and stop you, that's an assault on your freedom. Right?

Not even close. If the MLK bridge is raised, there still are various routes to cross the river, though it may take me longer to go those alternate routes. That is totally different than telling me I may be subject to arrest for driving my car on a road, any road.

How far, really, will people let the government go?

This may be slightly off topic, but my daughter rolls her eyes anytime the Hunger Games come up in conversation with me. I detest that movie, and am seriously concerned on how far the citizens of this country will let the government go simply because no one sees the problem with the premise of the movie.

Can we honestly say the Hunger Games will/can never happen? "It's just a movie!" intones my daughter. Really? Is it?

How far will we let the government go?

...wow. that's one seriously slippery fuckin' slope you've got going on there.

a level three snow emergency is declared in some of the worst weather conditions this county has ever seen, yadda yadda, hunger games?

Anecdotally: did anyone prevent you from putting on snowshoes or cross country skis to get where you were going? No? Then they didn't curtail your fucking freedom, you paranoid loon. No one was at your door telling you that you weren't allowed to leave. County-controlled-and-paid-for-streets were closed to MOTOR TRAFFIC. That's all. The National Guard wasn't called out to gun down carloads of patriotic people, and the police generally had their hands full trying to keep up with rescuing idiots who went out anyway.

glenn beck called - he needs his chalkboard back.

BTW: I apologize for the overly snarky and probably not-as-polite-as-I-should-be tone. You just gotta understand how trying it is to be nice and polite to lunacy after a while. I mean, there are ACTUAL and REAL threats to your freedom out there (Yeah, about that drug war with the government being allowed to seize your cash without due process? Fun times, that!), and THIS is where you choose to be incensed? Weird, Mrs. Archer, really... really... weird.

posted by endcycle on Jan 13, 2014 at 04:44:09 pm     #   2 people liked this

Wayyyy worse than "cupcake." :)

posted by justread on Jan 13, 2014 at 04:46:26 pm     #  

Not even close. If the MLK bridge is raised, there still are various routes to cross the river, though it may take me longer to go those alternate routes. That is totally different than telling me I may be subject to arrest for driving my car on a road, any road.

Nonsense.

What about your freedom to choose? What if you don't WANT to take one of the other bridges? At least two of the other bridges are higher than the MLK...what if you are afraid of heights? What if you're running late? What if they are out of your way, is the government going to reimburse you for extra gas?

It's the same thing: temporarily restricting your passage on a certain roadway or roadways so that business can be taken care of.

However, in the case of a level 3, I'm pretty sure that unless an armed guard stood by your home to ensure you didn't leave without proper cause, your freedom to travel was not being impeded. Much like with the examples YOU gave, you were free to do as you pleased, as long as you had good reason to be on the roads or were willing to risk consequences.

posted by Sohio on Jan 13, 2014 at 05:32:31 pm     #  

In a level 3, those with good jobs and impressive id badges are "free" but regular folks face points and imprisonment. Where's the justice?

posted by justread on Jan 13, 2014 at 06:02:23 pm     #  

I'm amused that my post did pretty much what I figured: Irritate and evoke comment from those most guilty of the statements I made. Protest too much and all that. I wouldn't waste my effort on anything political here. Not really looking to play in the mud.

I just wish folks would slow down, step away from the bad logic and unexamined talking points and stick to interesting and fact-based appeals to reason rather than emotional provocation and appeals to fear. Of course, it has been claimed that reality has a 'liberal' bias, so that may not work out well when politics are involved.

posted by RobJelf on Jan 13, 2014 at 06:42:09 pm     #  

justread posted at 05:02:23 PM on Jan 13, 2014:

In a level 3, those with good jobs and impressive id badges are "free" but regular folks face points and imprisonment. Where's the justice?

Some of us with impressive ID badges would have preferred the days off. Just sayin.

posted by Nolan_Rosenkrans on Jan 13, 2014 at 07:04:26 pm     #  

Nolan_Rosenkrans posted at 06:04:26 PM on Jan 13, 2014:
justread posted at 05:02:23 PM on Jan 13, 2014:

In a level 3, those with good jobs and impressive id badges are "free" but regular folks face points and imprisonment. Where's the justice?

Some of us with impressive ID badges would have preferred the days off. Just sayin.

They don't follow you all the way to work. You could go anywhere. Just sayin.

Besides, I meant impressive. I forgot about the media also.

posted by justread on Jan 13, 2014 at 07:06:49 pm     #  

I'm amused.

Awesome. It's entertainment, after all.

I just wish.

Wish for amusement, and you'll be content. :)

posted by justread on Jan 13, 2014 at 07:09:00 pm     #  

badges?!

posted by justareviewer on Jan 13, 2014 at 09:23:40 pm     #  

I'm amused. :)

posted by justread on Jan 13, 2014 at 09:33:27 pm     #  

I'm sad to see a public safety thread has turned into a political flame fest.

posted by INeedCoffee on Jan 14, 2014 at 06:14:44 am     #  

It was finished keeping us safe over a week ago.

The next "public safety" or weather threat deserves a new thread.

posted by justread on Jan 14, 2014 at 07:42:33 am     #   3 people liked this

Outrage.
Oh my Gawd, someone could die.

Where is the level 3 today ?!

posted by justread on Jan 16, 2014 at 08:19:13 pm     #   1 person liked this

justread posted at 07:19:13 PM on Jan 16, 2014:

Outrage.
Oh my Gawd, someone could die.

Where is the level 3 today ?!

I missed where the visibility was that bad, the roads were drifting over immediately after plowing, and salt was ineffective.

Seriously, your trolling is weaksauce.

posted by anonymouscoward on Jan 16, 2014 at 08:30:52 pm     #   5 people liked this

But they closed I-75, Cupcake.

If we had saved one life...

posted by justread on Jan 16, 2014 at 09:19:04 pm     #  

justread posted at 08:19:04 PM on Jan 16, 2014:

But they closed I-75, Cupcake.

If we had saved one life...

Well what I just saw was CLOSED DUE TO ACCIDENT.

Not CLOSED DUE TO IMPOSSIBLE TO DRIVE UPON DUE TO SNOW AND ICE.

But,

with your trolling and jackassery, if it makes you feel better.

posted by anonymouscoward on Jan 16, 2014 at 09:56:22 pm     #   4 people liked this

http://www.toledoblade.com/Police-Fire/2014/01/16/Snow-causes-crashes-lane-closures-on-US-23-near-Dundee.html

A guy died in Fulton county. :(

posted by justread on Jan 17, 2014 at 06:29:13 am     #  

What the FUCK is wrong with you that you need to make fun of someone's death in a pathetic attempt to argue your lame and invalid attempt at what I'll call a "point" only because I can't call it a "dull" and still have people understand what I mean?

posted by anonymouscoward on Jan 17, 2014 at 09:51:02 am     #   1 person liked this

anonymouscoward posted at 08:51:02 AM on Jan 17, 2014:

What the FUCK is wrong with you that you need to make fun of someone's death in a pathetic attempt to argue your lame and invalid attempt at what I'll call a "point" only because I can't call it a "dull" and still have people understand what I mean?

The sad face indicates sadness. The story indicates that there was more going on with the weather than simply one accident.

Why would you suggest "making fun" of someone's death?

Oh yeah, your constant and ever-present agenda. I forgot.

posted by justread on Jan 17, 2014 at 10:52:14 am     #   1 person liked this

justread posted at 09:52:14 AM on Jan 17, 2014:
anonymouscoward posted at 08:51:02 AM on Jan 17, 2014:

What the FUCK is wrong with you that you need to make fun of someone's death in a pathetic attempt to argue your lame and invalid attempt at what I'll call a "point" only because I can't call it a "dull" and still have people understand what I mean?

The sad face indicates sadness. The story indicates that there was more going on with the weather than simply one accident.

Why would you suggest "making fun" of someone's death?

Oh yeah, your constant and ever-present agenda. I forgot.

No, it's that when you make a comment like this:

Outrage.
Oh my Gawd, someone could die.

Where is the level 3 today ?!

! posted by justread on Jan 16, 2014 at 07:19:13 pm

and then you post what you did above, it really REALLY comes off as you are being a real sick jackass.

posted by anonymouscoward on Jan 17, 2014 at 11:00:53 am     #   4 people liked this

anonymouscoward posted at 10:00:53 AM on Jan 17, 2014:
justread posted at 09:52:14 AM on Jan 17, 2014:
anonymouscoward posted at 08:51:02 AM on Jan 17, 2014:

What the FUCK is wrong with you that you need to make fun of someone's death in a pathetic attempt to argue your lame and invalid attempt at what I'll call a "point" only because I can't call it a "dull" and still have people understand what I mean?

The sad face indicates sadness. The story indicates that there was more going on with the weather than simply one accident.

Why would you suggest "making fun" of someone's death?

Oh yeah, your constant and ever-present agenda. I forgot.

No, it's that when you make a comment like this:

Outrage.

Oh my Gawd, someone could die.

Where is the level 3 today ?!

! posted by justread on Jan 16, 2014 at 07:19:13 pm

and then you post what you did above, it really REALLY comes off as you are being a real sick jackass.

Ah, you have made a connection that wasn't actually there.

It must serve your agenda.

posted by justread on Jan 17, 2014 at 12:12:47 pm     #  

justread posted at 11:12:47 AM on Jan 17, 2014:
anonymouscoward posted at 10:00:53 AM on Jan 17, 2014:
justread posted at 09:52:14 AM on Jan 17, 2014:
anonymouscoward posted at 08:51:02 AM on Jan 17, 2014:

What the FUCK is wrong with you that you need to make fun of someone's death in a pathetic attempt to argue your lame and invalid attempt at what I'll call a "point" only because I can't call it a "dull" and still have people understand what I mean?

The sad face indicates sadness. The story indicates that there was more going on with the weather than simply one accident.

Why would you suggest "making fun" of someone's death?

Oh yeah, your constant and ever-present agenda. I forgot.

No, it's that when you make a comment like this:

Outrage.


Oh my Gawd, someone could die.

Where is the level 3 today ?!

! posted by justread on Jan 16, 2014 at 07:19:13 pm

and then you post what you did above, it really REALLY comes off as you are being a real sick jackass.

Ah, you have made a connection that wasn't actually there.

It must serve your agenda.

Given my previous comment is one + away from a Green Box of Goodness, I don't think so Tim, you're outranked and outnumbered.

posted by anonymouscoward on Jan 17, 2014 at 12:37:51 pm     #  

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