Toledo Talk

Major, vehicle-wrecking pothole alert thread.......

I-280 NB ramp to I-75 NB, left lane, just before 75, Smart car swallowing pothole. I hit the son-of-a-bitch last night and thought for sure I'd end up limping home.

Ottawa River road, right after you cross Suder from the I-75 exit is a disaster. You MUST go slow and swerve like you are under the influence to avoid all the potholes.

created by Foodie on Jan 21, 2014 at 09:59:10 am     Other     Comments: 50

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This was going to be my year for citizen action on potholes. I've been hatching a plan for a while, since I remove cheap (illegal) signs from the right-of-way sometimes and then use them for tomato supports in my garden.

I always thought I could paint those signs bright orange and stencil the words "Pothole Right Lane" or "Pothole Ahead 100 Feet" and then stick them into snowbanks as a public service.

Also, I should add the proper city phone number to call so everyone who's yacking on cell phones while driving can also report the hazard. :-)

But this year, to my surprise, the city has kept up with the major offenders that I run across on my rounds. I drive a loop from Secor to Holland-Sylvania to Monroe and/or Central. Maybe my part of town is getting special treatment, but the bad holes don't stay open more than a day or two after storms.

posted by viola on Jan 21, 2014 at 10:36:06 am     #  

It seems the Anthony Wayne Trail is a ship wreck until you reach Maumee. Then it seems fine. Why?

posted by Molsonator on Jan 21, 2014 at 10:41:03 am     #  

Molsonator posted at 09:41:03 AM on Jan 21, 2014:

It seems the Anthony Wayne Trail is a ship wreck until you reach Maumee. Then it seems fine. Why?

We should probably avoid answering that question lest we force this thread off to /p/...........

posted by Foodie on Jan 21, 2014 at 10:49:50 am     #   1 person liked this

Molsonator posted at 09:41:03 AM on Jan 21, 2014:

It seems the Anthony Wayne Trail is a ship wreck until you reach Maumee. Then it seems fine. Why?

I noticed the same thing, the Trail going to and from 75 is a complete wreck.

posted by waughkev on Jan 21, 2014 at 10:53:21 am     #  

waughkev posted at 09:53:21 AM on Jan 21, 2014:
Molsonator posted at 09:41:03 AM on Jan 21, 2014:

It seems the Anthony Wayne Trail is a ship wreck until you reach Maumee. Then it seems fine. Why?

I noticed the same thing, the Trail going to and from 75 is a complete wreck.

Yep, I run that gauntlet twice a day.

posted by Foodie on Jan 21, 2014 at 10:54:58 am     #   1 person liked this

Is the Anthony Wayne trail the responsibility of the cities or the county?

posted by Molsonator on Jan 21, 2014 at 11:16:36 am     #  

Surely, a pothole reporting/searching mobile app exists. It could operate many ways. One way:

Reporting

  • Driver holds the phone in one hand while still driving safely.
  • Driver simply taps a huge button on the mobile app each time that the driver sees a pothole.
  • The driver would not need to look at the phone.
  • Of course, the GPS coordinates are logged for the hole.
  • It would be nice, however, to have a three-point, pothole rating system, but that would be another click and probably too much for a driver to do. Unless three large buttons existed on the app instead of one huge button. Each button represents each type of pothole. But this may also require the driver to look down at the phone.
    • 1=solid thud, but still good enough to drive over
    • 2=risky
    • 3=rim-buster, avoid at all costs

Searching

  • When driving somewhere, the driver plots the route, and the app indicates the pothole locations that are color-coded to match the severity level, if using the three-point rating system.


Or people could use these Web forms to report potholes:

  • City of Toledo : Pothole Repair Request Form - "To report potholes that need to be repaired you may call 419-936-BUMP or fill out the form."
  • ODOT : Report a Pothole - "To report a pothole, click on Add new item, then fill out the popup form."


This mobile app called Pothole Alert 311 works with the 311 system for some cities.

Toledo does not have a 311 system, but Mayor Collins plans to implement one.

Dec 23, 2013 Blade story

The new mayor plans to assign Mr. Leggett the task of creating a 311 system for Toledo. Such a system could handle nonemergency calls for city services, such as public utilities and pothole repair, or even non-emergency police calls, depending on how it is configured.

posted by jr on Jan 21, 2014 at 11:26:37 am     #   4 people liked this

Molsonator posted at 09:41:03 AM on Jan 21, 2014:

It seems the Anthony Wayne Trail is a ship wreck until you reach Maumee. Then it seems fine. Why?

Toledo did a resurfacing project on the trail roughly 10 years ago. Choices were made to save money, including eliminating curbs and drains from the design. Water does not shed properly from the road, built over a former canal. The additional water held in and below the paved surface causes more issues with freeze/thaw heaving than "normal" in our climate. The ramifications of that decision were pretty immediate. The road started coming apart in 2004.

posted by justread on Jan 21, 2014 at 12:08:35 pm     #   1 person liked this

I know 3 different people who have cracked rims on the Trail in the past few weeks.

posted by mom2 on Jan 21, 2014 at 12:22:23 pm     #  

Toledo's 2014 street resurfacing plan is not finalized yet, but the following was reported by the Toledo Blade on Jan 18, 2014:

Collins offers initial plan for street projects - "Proposal seems to suggest fixes to fewer miles than under Bell"

The Collins administration has not released a plan for sidewalks and curbs.

City Spokesman Lisa Ward said the full capital improvements budget and the 2014 general fund budget are being revised.

“We have no idea yet how many streets we will pave in 2014,” Ms. Ward said. Ms. Ward said the residential streets likely would be divided equally among the city’s six council districts.

The street projects identified Friday for resurfacing are:

  • Madison from 11th to Woodruff.
  • Nebraska Avenue from Detroit Avenue to Collingwood Boulevard.
  • Douglas Road from Dorr Street to Kenwood Boulevard.
  • Suder Avenue from Manhattan Boulevard to just north of Abygail Trail.
  • Dorr from Byrne Road to Douglas.

The city is also paving streets for the Lucas Metropolitan Housing Authority’s new Collingwood Green Senior Community,

posted by jr on Jan 21, 2014 at 12:30:41 pm     #  

It appears the ODOT form does not include Lucas County.

posted by Foodie on Jan 21, 2014 at 12:47:40 pm     #  

Foodie posted at 09:49:50 AM on Jan 21, 2014:
Molsonator posted at 09:41:03 AM on Jan 21, 2014:

It seems the Anthony Wayne Trail is a ship wreck until you reach Maumee. Then it seems fine. Why?

We should probably avoid answering that question lest we force this thread off to /p/...........

No, it would be banished only to local /p/, which is less of a slum.

If you want an answer about the specific segment between the I-75 ramps and the nearest intersections, that's because whomever is responsible for maintenance does not give a flying fuck and thinks concrete expansion joints should be just fine filled with hot and cold patch, instead of cut out and re-poured with concrete. Oh, and because there was some talk about a MAGICAL DOWNTOWN GATEWAY WITH LANDSCAPING AND SHIT at one point.

If you're talking about the stretch SW of 75 towards Maumee, it's because the shit asphalt is deteriorating and because I think the city's attitude towards crack sealing and preventative maintenance amounts to "why should we bother?"

If you want to keep the potholes from getting bad, you need to keep water from getting under the surface layer of asphalt. Which means you either need to cut out the shitty spots of surface asphalt, or crack seal/surface seal. Both are, of course, labor intensive, which means they ain't getting done.

Maumee maintenance takes over at Maumee line which means the road is better because Maumee don't fuck around and let their roads get that bad.

posted by anonymouscoward on Jan 21, 2014 at 11:27:59 pm     #   6 people liked this

I was planning to upload videos about toledos mammoth potholes. Douglas is very bad between oakwood and kenwood so its good to see it made the list. That stretch of madison doesnt get much traffic but it is home to the local dem party hq and another new park. Dorr between secor and douglas was paved not long ago.

posted by EconCat88 on Jan 22, 2014 at 08:19:56 am     #  

Douglas is very bad between oakwood and kenwood

That's putting it lightly...

posted by oldhometown on Jan 22, 2014 at 04:47:53 pm     #  

For all practical purposes, the Trail is rapidly becoming non-driveable.

I sent an e-mail to my useless district council person (Ms. Webb) inviting her out to the Point to view the disaster that is Ottawa River Rd. I want her to exit off I-75 onto the ORR exit and go really fast through the red light and onto ORR. If she survives the 6 foot wide bottomless pothole at the red light intersection, what used to be roadway once she crosses Suder will certainly get her.

And the blockheads are once again going to rob the CIP of another $14 million this year for God-knows-what. Probably so they can make more donations to "charitable" groups.

Seriously Toledo, when will you folks wake up and start sending fiscally responsible people to 1 Gum't Center?

posted by Foodie on Feb 21, 2014 at 01:28:03 pm     #  

The trail just into Toledo from Maumee where they removed the train track viaduct (sp?) is not driveable. They were out this morning trying to patch but it seemed like it was just causing a bigger mess.

posted by Molsonator on Feb 21, 2014 at 01:51:20 pm     #  

The first 500 feet of Ottawa River Rd. once your cross Suder is not driveable. And I'm not kidding about the 6 foot wide, bottomless pothole at the end of the OR exit ramp - if you are coming out to the Point, be very aware of this monster. It's been there for weeks but has become downright dangerous this week.

Outbound lanes of the Trail shortly after you exit downtown have been orange barreled for the last few days. The road is not driveable. The rest of the Trail is severely pothole riddled until you cross Detroit into Maumee.

posted by Foodie on Feb 21, 2014 at 02:07:18 pm     #   2 people liked this

"........I was planning to upload videos about Toledo's mammoth potholes......"

Knock yourself out, Econ.

posted by MariaL on Feb 21, 2014 at 02:09:28 pm     #  

This is the worst I've seen the roads, in 60 years.

posted by Wulf on Feb 21, 2014 at 02:41:47 pm     #  

I'm sure this winter isn't helping, and I'm willing to bet that because of the cold temperatures and inability to use hot-fill material, that they're doing the best they can. But the outbound Trail is an absolute horror show. From downtown out to Parkway Plaza, it's like playing a terrible video game. Don't drive it if you don't have to.

posted by kaj on Feb 21, 2014 at 03:28:50 pm     #  

RIP Anthony Wayne Trail 1913-2014
I bottomed out my accord twice on my way into the office today. saw a truck bottom out yesterday on the way home (Southbound). Hopefully Broadway is reopened.

posted by endcycle on Feb 21, 2014 at 03:31:07 pm     #  

I drove on the "Trial" on my way to/from a meeting yesterday.

While I was on it, in between gravel spray and huge cavernous gaping holes, I had two thoughts:
1) I have officially designated my oldest car as my Anthony Wayne Trail car. I will drive nothing else on the AWT.

2) If Anthony Wayne were alive, and saw that minefield named after him, he really would be "mad."

posted by justread on Feb 21, 2014 at 03:37:46 pm     #  

"RIP Anthony Wayne Trail 1913-2014"

That sounds like an event idea for social media to plan: a mock funeral for a road. Organize a huge, hearse-led funeral procession that drives slowly, the only speed possible, down the Trail. Hold a burial ceremony with fake gravestones and plastic flowers. Everyone dressed in black. Etc

Another funeral procession option, carry chunks of road to be buried. (Their road is better.)

posted by jr on Feb 21, 2014 at 04:09:29 pm     #   1 person liked this

Like them, we'd be forced to walk.

posted by justread on Feb 21, 2014 at 05:00:03 pm     #  

I so want to do that, JR.

posted by endcycle on Feb 21, 2014 at 05:59:13 pm     #  

that's not the right pothole, hon. can't tell the players without a scorecard! :)

posted by nana on Feb 22, 2014 at 07:10:15 pm     #  

Nope, the wee bit of cold patch they tossed in some of the holes on Friday afternoon is already gone. The first 500 feet of EB OR road once you cross Suder is not driveable - use a different route.

nana is correct - the article above refers to the 475EB ramp to 75NB - you know, the brand new one that was actaully built with concrete - that crosses the Ottawa River.

posted by Foodie on Feb 23, 2014 at 07:28:47 am     #  

Wake me when May gets here and this winter/pothole nightmare has started to subside.

posted by historymike on Feb 23, 2014 at 08:37:42 am     #  

Every year the city sub-contracts private companies to help plow the snow. Why not sub-contract paving companies to help with the potholes? The city doesn't have enough manpower or equipment to properly do the job in a timely manner and if they can come up with over $800,000.00 to demolish an old motel that has been empty for years, why not allocate that money (and probably more) to the much more pressing problem of filling the potholes. City hall needs to get their (and our) priorities in order.

posted by Mike21 on Feb 23, 2014 at 09:01:22 am     #   4 people liked this

Making deliveries all over the area 6 days a week let's me see all of these areas.
I've never seen it even close to this bad. Cass road between Heatherdowns and Glendale.....crumbling. Detroit avenue in the Bancroft/Monroe area, the same. Maybe we should just lower all speed limits to 5 mph?
The other day, I dropped off a delivery near Conant and the Trail. Next stop was Manor Care downtown on Summit. I took the Trail all the way to downtown. The trail in Maumee was great, no potholes....until about 100 yards before the Toledo city limit. From there on it was horrible.

posted by JeepMaker on Feb 23, 2014 at 11:21:31 am     #  

Mike21 posted at 08:01:22 AM on Feb 23, 2014:

Every year the city sub-contracts private companies to help plow the snow. Why not sub-contract paving companies to help with the potholes? The city doesn't have enough manpower or equipment to properly do the job in a timely manner and if they can come up with over $800,000.00 to demolish an old motel that has been empty for years, why not allocate that money (and probably more) to the much more pressing problem of filling the potholes. City hall needs to get their (and our) priorities in order.

Ok, but cold patch stays in a hole what, two days?

posted by justread on Feb 23, 2014 at 12:01:53 pm     #   2 people liked this

Once again you are right justread. Let's just do nothing and wait till all the asphalt comes up and we will be driving on the bricks, cobblestones and dirt that is under it. Maybe we could use some of that money to try to get that permanent bug out of your ass - although from reading some of your comments, we don't have enough!

posted by Mike21 on Feb 23, 2014 at 12:14:03 pm     #   1 person liked this

I didn't say that we should do nothing, dumbass. I said that cold patch stays in the hole for like two days.

That fact should be worked into any realistic pothole plan. That was my one and only point. Why take a fact personally?

Your own "bug" is deeply effecting your reaction to non-confrontational and non-argumentative posts, asshat.

posted by justread on Feb 23, 2014 at 01:41:46 pm     #   7 people liked this

You are right again justread. I never mentioned cold patch but once again you put something in a comment that was not there. Why not make some constructive suggestions instead of being so negative about other's comments? Since I'm such a dumbass, could you explain to me - and all the other dumbasses out there what an asshat is? Or better yet, why not post a pic of you wearing one of yours!

posted by Mike21 on Feb 23, 2014 at 01:51:04 pm     #   1 person liked this

Look, anybody who has followed the fact that Toledo can't keep up with the pothole problem (your point) knows that a factor in both the problem and the solution, is that in the winter months (the months with the freezing and thawing) cold patch is the only alternative.
Recently, an unprecedented early opening of a hot asphalt plant is helping us get at least a better handle on the pothole situation.

I agree that Toledo has not made potholes a high enough priority. However, I also recognize that a major factor is the fact that cold patch stays in the hole, ohhhh, about two days. That fact is entirely relevant to any solution or plan in regard to pothole mitigation.

The rest, and your reactions to my point, are related to your own issues and your own drama. I was just throwing the cold patch issue into the mix. I wasn't even disagreeing with you.
You have issues.

posted by justread on Feb 23, 2014 at 02:06:29 pm     #   7 people liked this

I agree with "Mike 21"Private paving companies would be the way to go.They would have a reason to get in there and get the job done quick and efficiently[PROFIT]. City workers don't that fire under their ass to get the job done that quick and that is the way it is.Another thing cold patch is not made to work when the hole was full of water,hot mix is the only way to go and even then the hole should not be full of water because hot mix will set up to quick before it can be compacted and pop out of the hole in a chunk.

posted by moxie on Feb 23, 2014 at 02:57:55 pm     #  

Just came up I-75 north before the Ottawa River Road Exit and saw 5 cars pulled over with flat tires. The pothole always wins.

posted by OldTimer on Feb 23, 2014 at 07:44:14 pm     #  

Cold patch is OK when the stuff gets time to settle and bond with the adjoining pavement, and it is even better when the temperature is hot outside. I have used the stuff in driveways and parking lots many times (both personal and my commercial lots) and achieved permanent repairs. Clean out the hole, pack down the sub-pavement, pour the cold patch in, tamp it down, and voila - problem solved.

However, as justread noted, it does not stay long in the pothole when cars, trucks, and semis are bouncing on it in cold temps with freeze-thaw-salt added to that mix. Water also interferes with adhesion, so good luck getting cold patch to take hold in the sloppy Artic mess we have experienced the past two months.

posted by historymike on Feb 23, 2014 at 08:06:21 pm     #  

Errr... "Arctic."

posted by historymike on Feb 23, 2014 at 08:07:08 pm     #  

I agree that the addition of contractors to the mix for pothole duty would be worthwhile. The analogy that they use them for snow removal is a good one. I never intended for all hell to break loose when I mentioned the shortcomings of cold patch.

I've used it at home in the summer, while dry, and tamped the living hell out of it, and it was fine.

But during a winter like we have had, some of the blame of the overall terrible roads does fairly go to cold patch coming back out of wet roads that are heaving in the -10 to 35 degree swings, salt, and constant snow.

posted by justread on Feb 23, 2014 at 09:29:58 pm     #  

Hopefully nobody here has hit the massive canyon along the westbound curb lane across from ut's university hall. Bancroft from collingwood to secor should be considered a natural disaster area.

posted by EconCat88 on Feb 24, 2014 at 01:15:53 am     #  

I frequently use the Anthony Wayne Trail, from Parkway Plaza to the Collingwood Road exit, but have taken an alternate route for the last couple of weeks because of its poor condition. Today I took a chance and drove down it, and was surprised by how much it has improved. I hit just one, small, pot hole. Seems all the other holes have been filled. I was using the passing and middle lanes until I took my exit. The curb lane wasn't too bad, either.

posted by renegade on Feb 24, 2014 at 08:52:21 pm     #  

Yes, I noticed some major improvement today of the condition outbound and inbound. There are still a few craters but hats off to the crews who had to have spent God knows how many hours filling them.

Now, if we can just get them out here to the Point........

posted by Foodie on Feb 24, 2014 at 09:19:41 pm     #  

Bad news is that Gerken closed the Napoleon asphalt plant again for a while. Hats off to them for opening it at probably a zero profit margin way early for a window of time to be a good neighbor. They put out hundreds of tons of asphalt for the ODOT and Toledo last week.

Let's hope some of those hot patches last.

posted by justread on Feb 24, 2014 at 09:30:40 pm     #  

Just dropping in to echo Foodie - the trail is VASTLY improved. Kudos to the city for getting so much done, couldn't have been an easy job.

posted by endcycle on Feb 25, 2014 at 10:45:19 am     #  

The stretch of I-75N from downtown to I-475 is also in great shape now. It was so bad that they had portions of the two right lanes completely orange barreled off for a couple weeks. Now, it's smooth as butter. Job well done, ODOT.

posted by Johio83 on Feb 25, 2014 at 11:03:04 am     #  

My coworker blew two tires this morning on her way into work right by Laskey and Lewis area.
Yikes

posted by stooks on Feb 25, 2014 at 11:21:31 am     #  

Well for goodness sake, Suzie Wong, we have to get the speeds back up in order to collect all those red light camera fines. Lookee all that revenue lost.

posted by Mariner on Feb 25, 2014 at 11:21:45 am     #  

Stooks, I think if the co-worker reports it and takes photo of pothole, they can get the city to reimburse them for the damage.

posted by bikerdude on Feb 26, 2014 at 12:27:45 pm     #