Toledo Talk

Toledo Firefighters

Prayers and thoughts for the injured Toledo Firefighters, their family, friends and fellow brother and sister firefighters.

created by TrilbyGuy on Jan 26, 2014 at 07:56:46 pm     News     Comments: 51

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Amen to that. Sad to hear of this news. Heartbreaking for the department, the city, and the families.

posted by mjcozy on Jan 26, 2014 at 08:32:41 pm     #   1 person liked this

It's beginning to sound as if the two Firefighters have lost their lives. Such a tragic loss. We will be praying for all who knew these brave individuals.

posted by Weneedchange on Jan 26, 2014 at 08:33:41 pm     #   1 person liked this

Had the opportunity to meet a bunch of them a couple of years ago when they were swamped with fires and working in the heat. They worked so hard to save a friend's house, having worked all night. I was so amazed by them.

God bless the firefighters who lost their lives today.

May their families be comforted during this time.

Thank you to all of the TFD.

posted by justread on Jan 26, 2014 at 09:56:40 pm     #   5 people liked this

A reminder of how dangerous it is to be a firefighter, especially in bigger cities. Hoping the families are holding up ok.

posted by Ace_Face on Jan 26, 2014 at 09:58:03 pm     #   1 person liked this

:(

posted by anonymouscoward on Jan 27, 2014 at 12:43:16 am     #   1 person liked this

This tragedy has given the local news media a chance to once again show what heartless vultures they are. The pictures accompanying the Blade's online article today are totally uncalled for. Showing pictures of the firefighter's bodies adds absolutely nothing to the story. Then you have Taylor Dungjen on Twitter asking followers to let her know of any events honoring the deceased. Why, so she can push her notepad and pen in people's faces to get the latest scoop? Try to write an award-winning story? Get a life.

posted by dell_diva on Jan 27, 2014 at 09:21:42 am     #  

dell_diva-I think that's a fairly cynical critique of Dungjen. While no doubt, reporting the goings on regarding this tragedy is a facet of her job, she has also been quick to report how the community rallies together and forwards charity info. As lecherous as it may feel, the only source of info we are getting about this, is from The Blade and the TV stations.

posted by ahmahler on Jan 27, 2014 at 09:51:05 am     #  

I fail to understand why we risk the lives of firefighters to enter a building where all of the occupants have been evacuated. Control the fire from the outside. What is there to gain on a multi tenant building in North Toledo. Call it a loss and let the insurance company take over. My daughter who is proud TFD person was on the scene and very distraught last night after leaving St. V's and coming to my house, as she should be. I posed the same question to her.....why enter an unsafe building if it is not to rescue a trapped person.............the response was "It's what we do"

posted by Hoops on Jan 27, 2014 at 10:04:38 am     #  

dell_diva posted at 08:21:42 AM on Jan 27, 2014:

This tragedy has given the local news media a chance to once again show what heartless vultures they are. The pictures accompanying the Blade's online article today are totally uncalled for. Showing pictures of the firefighter's bodies adds absolutely nothing to the story. Then you have Taylor Dungjen on Twitter asking followers to let her know of any events honoring the deceased. Why, so she can push her notepad and pen in people's faces to get the latest scoop? Try to write an award-winning story? Get a life.

Tragedies are stories, too.

There is nothing heartless about the coverage of this tragedy.

Comprehensive coverage of the story would be to include, and make available details of events honoring the deceased. Expect a large outpouring and interest. I imagine that there will be considerable ceremony, for example, an archway made by ladder trucks.
It's a big loss, a terrible tragedy, and a compelling story.

On photos, I saw one of some firefighters carrying their brother out of a building. It was touching. My heart broke for them.

Perhaps we bring our own context to these photos and stories.

posted by justread on Jan 27, 2014 at 10:05:30 am     #   3 people liked this

Hoops posted at 09:04:38 AM on Jan 27, 2014:

I fail to understand why we risk the lives of firefighters to enter a building where all of the occupants have been evacuated. Control the fire from the outside. What is there to gain on a multi tenant building in North Toledo. Call it a loss and let the insurance company take over. My daughter who is proud TFD person was on the scene and very distraught last night after leaving St. V's and coming to my house, as she should be. I posed the same question to her.....why enter an unsafe building if it is not to rescue a trapped person.............the response was "It's what we do"

"What is there to gain on a multi tenant building in North Toledo. Call it a loss and let the insurance company take over."

FUCK THOSE POORS, THEIR SHIT SHOULD JUST BE LEFT TO BURN!

...but if it was in the better part of the city, they should have it be a 3-alarm fire and fight to the last man to prevent even one cent more of damage than necessary, amirite?

posted by anonymouscoward on Jan 27, 2014 at 10:25:02 am     #   1 person liked this

All buildings should be fought from the outside. no piece of property no matter where it is located should be put in front of the lives of responders. so once again you are WRONG

posted by Hoops on Jan 27, 2014 at 10:34:53 am     #   12 people liked this

anonymouscoward posted at 09:25:02 AM on Jan 27, 2014:
Hoops posted at 09:04:38 AM on Jan 27, 2014:

I fail to understand why we risk the lives of firefighters to enter a building where all of the occupants have been evacuated. Control the fire from the outside. What is there to gain on a multi tenant building in North Toledo. Call it a loss and let the insurance company take over. My daughter who is proud TFD person was on the scene and very distraught last night after leaving St. V's and coming to my house, as she should be. I posed the same question to her.....why enter an unsafe building if it is not to rescue a trapped person.............the response was "It's what we do"

"What is there to gain on a multi tenant building in North Toledo. Call it a loss and let the insurance company take over."

FUCK THOSE POORS, THEIR SHIT SHOULD JUST BE LEFT TO BURN!

...but if it was in the better part of the city, they should have it be a 3-alarm fire and fight to the last man to prevent even one cent more of damage than necessary, amirite?

No respect.
Hoops' comment was clearly made to state the fact that lives are more important than property. There was no anti-poor agenda. You brought that. Again.

Another thread ruined.

posted by justread on Jan 27, 2014 at 10:38:29 am     #   15 people liked this

As someone who had a family member that was a Toledo Firefighter that I never got to meet because he perished doing his duty years before I was born I can say their families will have a hole in it that will last through generations.

In time the hole that's created from their physical loss will be replaced by the pride they have of someone who was willing to give the full measure for others.

It was that pride that inspired several of us family members to go on and do some great things in the service of others.

Firefighters and other Rescue workers are the bringers of hope when hope is most needed. Their gifts are a gift wrought with empathy and toil.

God bless these two giving souls.

The firefighters memorial today lists 47 names. It should and will read 49.

posted by MikeyA on Jan 27, 2014 at 10:48:33 am     #   4 people liked this

Prayers for those departed and their families.

posted by Mariner on Jan 27, 2014 at 10:54:21 am     #   1 person liked this

This is very tragic. I used to work a lot with TFD and there are a lot of good people working there. My best wishes go out to the families and the others in Engine 3. It's hard to really tell people how close fire fighters are with those in the same station. At times, you spend more time with your co-workers than you do your family. It's not your usual office or factory relationship between co-workers.

In terms of how they fought the fire and saving a building, I won't pretend to know the first thing about that relative to yesterday. The investigation has already started they will get to the bottom of what happened. Also, AC, it doesn't matter the income level of the residents. The primary factors of fighting outside vs. inside are the structural integrity of the building, what condition it is in when the fire is called in and when the fire fighters arrive, and if there is anybody inside the building.

The investigation will reveal everything that went on. Fire fighters will always do their best to save a building regardless of neighborhood, but if nobody is inside a fire, they will gladly sacrifice a building in order to protect their own lives.

The building yesterday was an older structure. Maybe they overestimated its structural integrity. Maybe it was ok when they went inside and an unseen accelerant created a dire situation. Maybe there was a communication problem. We don't know and a full investigation will get to the bottom of it.

posted by clt212 on Jan 27, 2014 at 11:01:43 am     #   1 person liked this

Hoops posted at 09:04:38 AM on Jan 27, 2014:

I fail to understand why we risk the lives of firefighters to enter a building where all of the occupants have been evacuated. Control the fire from the outside. What is there to gain on a multi tenant building in North Toledo. Call it a loss and let the insurance company take over. My daughter who is proud TFD person was on the scene and very distraught last night after leaving St. V's and coming to my house, as she should be. I posed the same question to her.....why enter an unsafe building if it is not to rescue a trapped person.............the response was "It's what we do"

Years ago I had the opportunity to learn about different fire-fighting technics, including the exact thing you talk about here. Some communities, like Detroit, the fire-fighting strategy is to preserve neighboring structures only - noone goes inside unless people are believed to be inside.

Other communities, like NW Ohio, our first responders go in to try to save the building and contencts.

I agree, I do not understand why we risk our first responders for anything other than the life of another. I know I would mourn the loss of momentos and such if my house were to ever catch on fire. But I would never question a firefighter's decision not to enter an empty building.

But others prize those things beyond all else and expect ... perhaps even demand ... that our first responders risk their lives to save and recover them. I thought it truly ironic that after the Blade reported the death of the two TFD, they left quotes in the article from at least one resident about losing possessions. While I'm sure the residents didn't realize it - or maybe it had not happened yet - and were not truly being selfish, the Blade failed in properly updating the article to the proper level.

It is only in times like this that we realize we can only beat the odds so many times before the risk is outweighed by the results.

Still, I doubt very much that the strategy will change though I believe it should.

And before anyone jumps on me for my attitude - this was an issue that I questioned in Sylvania Township - not the inner city of Toledo. Why do we risk our men and women for any structure?

posted by MrsArcher on Jan 27, 2014 at 01:34:06 pm     #   1 person liked this

Hoops posted at 09:34:53 AM on Jan 27, 2014:

All buildings should be fought from the outside. no piece of property no matter where it is located should be put in front of the lives of responders. so once again you are WRONG

On the surface, you're right - property is much less important than lives, for sure. I don't think anyone here disagrees with that.

The reason they enter the structure is often to make sure that there is no one else in the building. In the case of multi-tenant structures, you NEED to check it out as quickly and thoroughly as possible, and that often implies internal firefighting. You don't always have the luxury of thorough headcounts performed by all of the family members affected.

Firefighters don't risk their lives needlessly - they want to come home for dinner, but they also know that accidents happen and that they work in an incredibly dangerous environment. They often save innocents by engaging the fire internally.

posted by endcycle on Jan 27, 2014 at 01:44:47 pm     #   5 people liked this

I read somewhere yesterday that the "remains" of the firefighters were to be taken to the Lucas Co Coroner's office. Am I to understand that these men were burned to death and/or burned post mortis? I certainly hope not.

posted by BulldogBuckeye on Jan 27, 2014 at 05:21:37 pm     #  

BulldogBuckeye posted at 04:21:37 PM on Jan 27, 2014:

I read somewhere yesterday that the "remains" of the firefighters were to be taken to the Lucas Co Coroner's office. Am I to understand that these men were burned to death and/or burned post mortis? I certainly hope not.

Maybe Nolan can answer this better, but "remains" is just another way to say "body" or "corpse." If there is a difference in how those terms are used in journalism post-mortem, then I would be interested to hear about it.

posted by clt212 on Jan 27, 2014 at 05:41:28 pm     #  

That's pretty much it. I don't have any inside details on this story, though. Been leaving reporters alone while they cover a heartbreaking event.

posted by Nolan_Rosenkrans on Jan 27, 2014 at 05:54:40 pm     #   1 person liked this

At the Toledo Fire & Rescue Last Alarm Facebook page, photo of the Sunday evening escort.

About 9:30 p.m. [Sunday], Toledo police officers and firefighters were preparing to escort the bodies of the fallen heroes to the coroner's office.

Dr. Maneesha Pandey, a Lucas County deputy coroner, said autopsies are scheduled for today.

According to Toledo Fire Chief Luis Santiago, the fire investigation is being conducted by the following groups:

  • Toledo Fire Investigation Unit
  • Ohio Fire Marshall's Office
  • Toledo Police
  • Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives
  • Federal Bureau of Investigation
A “rapid deterioration of conditions” led to the deaths of two Toledo firefighters, said Fire Chief Luis Santiago.

Chief Santiago did not take questions from the media after the news conference, but promised a “detailed investigation,” with the help of “many agencies,” would take place.

posted by jr on Jan 27, 2014 at 06:09:36 pm     #   4 people liked this

Quoting and agreeing with the OP - Prayers and thoughts for the injured Toledo Firefighters, their family, friends and fellow brother and sister firefighters.

posted by 6th_Floor on Jan 27, 2014 at 06:33:45 pm     #  

The picture of the escort in jr's post was taken by a friend of mine. This situation is heartbreaking.

posted by TrilbyGuy on Jan 27, 2014 at 06:48:36 pm     #  

Apparently AC got banned for his comments in this thread. He wrote a rebuttal over at Swampbubbles. http://swampbubbles.com/20140127/hi-i-ve-been-banned-other-site#comment-82007 for those interested.

posted by MikeyA on Jan 28, 2014 at 11:04:52 pm     #   1 person liked this

It was bound to happen. Hard to believe some stuff he writes is tolerated.

posted by MIJeff on Jan 29, 2014 at 01:06:54 am     #   5 people liked this

Continued thoughts and prayers for those impacted by the tragic events of Sunday.

posted by justread on Jan 29, 2014 at 07:35:23 am     #   5 people liked this

Info provided by a business associate that those of you in the Franklin Park area may want to be aware of:

I have been informed that the procession honoring firefighter James Dickman may impact your commute tomorrow morning. The procession will begin at 7:30 at Walker Funeral Home (5155 W. Sylvania) and proceed east on Sylvania to Monroe street. The information we have received indicates that the procession may be miles long. Therefore you may want to plan on an alternate route, arrive by 7:30 or after 9:00 am. This is an estimation and even the City could not confirm an actual time

posted by Foodie on Jan 30, 2014 at 03:04:27 pm     #  

I thought it was pretty awesome that the family of one of the fallen firefighters wants their donations to go to he other firefighter who had a family

posted by Hoops on Jan 30, 2014 at 10:01:16 pm     #   3 people liked this

That is very generous of them, shows how tight knit the firefighter family is, I liken it to the military group, you look out for your brothers, you may fight with each other and argue but in the end, you are brothers.

posted by MIJeff on Jan 30, 2014 at 11:22:10 pm     #   1 person liked this

It was tough to maintain dry eyes watching the memorial service last night. Very nicely done. But, something I hope we never have to see again. Very sad.

posted by Foodie on Jan 31, 2014 at 07:03:24 am     #   1 person liked this

It was tough to maintain dry eyes

Yes it was. I failed.

posted by justread on Jan 31, 2014 at 08:08:35 am     #  

I travel down Sylvania Ave. to get to work and there were pockets of people (some with their kids) all along Sylvania from around Christ the King/Notre Dame to Walker Funeral Home on Cory. Almost all had American flags. It was pretty moving

posted by daddyg on Jan 31, 2014 at 09:16:13 am     #  

Does anyone know anything about this website selling t-shirts with proceeds to benefit the Dickman Family Memorial Fund?

http://www.toledofallenfirefighters.com/

Just want to make sure its the real deal.

posted by Spaceace on Jan 31, 2014 at 10:26:34 am     #  

It's registered to Andrew Newby, Vault9, Inc. at 1301 N Summit in Toledo. ARIES shows that property owned by High Tech Toledo Properties with a bit of negative info listed.
Here's some info I found on them (Vault9, Inc that is): http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapId=3768089

posted by Foodie on Jan 31, 2014 at 12:00:11 pm     #  

Asked a couple of TFD friends and nobody is 100% positive about. I know they sell them at the Blarney and other downtown bars and I doubt they would get as much publicity if they weren't legit. You can donate to the fund at PNC if you still have concerns.

posted by TrilbyGuy on Jan 31, 2014 at 01:01:41 pm     #  

Ugh. I hope that scam artists are not trying to make a buck off of this. Finding a way to scam generous-but-naive people during a tragedy is about as low as a person can get.

The worst hucksters I can recall were the lowlifes setting up fake charities after the Haitian earthquake and the Indonesian tsunami. There ought to be a special circle in hell for these scumbags.

posted by historymike on Jan 31, 2014 at 01:43:03 pm     #  

Foodie posted at 11:00:11 AM on Jan 31, 2014:

It's registered to Andrew Newby, Vault9, Inc. at 1301 N Summit in Toledo. ARIES shows that property owned by High Tech Toledo Properties with a bit of negative info listed.
Here's some info I found on them (Vault9, Inc that is): http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapId=3768089

I'm friends with Andrew. He's totally a legit guy.
He and his wife own Black Kite coffee in the OWE.

posted by upso on Jan 31, 2014 at 01:59:44 pm     #  

Can't ask for a better endorsement than that. Thanks upso.

posted by Foodie on Jan 31, 2014 at 02:16:18 pm     #  

My co-worker just alerted me to this:

http://www.13abc.com/story/24603257/owner-of-building-where-2-firemen-died-arrested-on-2-counts-of-murder-aggravated-arson

posted by valbee on Jan 31, 2014 at 04:55:53 pm     #  

Wow.

posted by justread on Jan 31, 2014 at 05:06:52 pm     #  

That 9th circle of hell is just for people like that building owner....

posted by MrsPhoenix on Jan 31, 2014 at 05:16:52 pm     #  

That was quick......great job by the investigators

posted by Hoops on Jan 31, 2014 at 05:25:30 pm     #   3 people liked this

Hoops posted at 04:25:30 PM on Jan 31, 2014:

That was quick......great job by the investigators

If an accelerant was obviously used, the investigation is fairly easy. Also, with two fire fighters dying in the fire, I am sure the investigation was not short on manpower from a handful of different departments and agencies.

posted by clt212 on Jan 31, 2014 at 05:43:07 pm     #  

And what a rap sheet Mr. Abou-Arab has!

http://www.tmc-clerk.com/caseinformation/criminaltraffic/Default.aspx

posted by MrsPhoenix on Jan 31, 2014 at 06:01:06 pm     #  

Type in his last name, and you will see the charges...

posted by MrsPhoenix on Jan 31, 2014 at 06:02:08 pm     #  

That was indeed quick. My only question was what kind of arsonist torches a building with his tenants still living in it?

posted by hunkytownsausage on Jan 31, 2014 at 08:46:59 pm     #  

I had heard the day after the fire from someone associated with TFD that arson was suspected due to the ferocity of the fire. Looks like they were right.

posted by Ace_Face on Jan 31, 2014 at 09:29:05 pm     #  

Besides the obvious murder and arson charges, he should face an attempted murder charge for every person that was in the building.
If convicted, he should get the death penalty.

posted by JeepMaker on Jan 31, 2014 at 11:26:27 pm     #   3 people liked this

JeepMaker posted at 10:26:27 PM on Jan 31, 2014:

Besides the obvious murder and arson charges, he should face an attempted murder charge for every person that was in the building.
If convicted, he should get the death penalty.

Like the next day.

posted by Foodie on Feb 01, 2014 at 08:11:35 am     #   1 person liked this

hunkytownsausage posted at 07:46:59 PM on Jan 31, 2014:

That was indeed quick. My only question was what kind of arsonist torches a building with his tenants still living in it?

This kind. Cold-blooded, man...

posted by oldhometown on Feb 01, 2014 at 03:06:22 pm     #