Toledo Talk

Pothole hell

Been in the area 40 years. Without a doubt roads/expressways, by the end of this winter, going to be worse I've ever seen.

Already in nuisance category for many, dangerous for some. AW Trail has become the Cumberland Gap. There are issues with the new sections of 475.
Moon craters on too many surface streets to mention.

Alignment/new tire biz will be hopping come spring, assuming spring comes.

created by McCaskey on Feb 04, 2014 at 04:30:15 pm     Comments: 87

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Comments ... #

Perfect winter for Jeep to launch the new Cherokee

posted by upso on Feb 04, 2014 at 04:32:23 pm     #   2 people liked this

It is already the worst I have ever seen.

By a longshot.

posted by justread on Feb 04, 2014 at 04:40:39 pm     #  

So you're saying Jeep is probably behind this weather? That's the most brilliant marketing strategy ever...

posted by Johio83 on Feb 04, 2014 at 04:59:58 pm     #  

Johio, read Upso's post again. I don't take that as an anti-Jeep screed. He's just stating that the bad roads mesh well with the timing of the launch of the new Jeep.

posted by daddyg on Feb 04, 2014 at 05:05:15 pm     #  

The stretch of Douglas Rd near UT is hilariously horrible. It should be labeled a tourist attraction. Take the family to see what the trails were like during the days of settlement.

This vehicle might work okay on our roads.

posted by jr on Feb 04, 2014 at 05:18:12 pm     #   1 person liked this

Sylvania/Jackman area is a lunar landscape. The intersection of Sylvania and Upton is missing a section of pavement that must be 4 feet by 8 feet and getting deeper every day. I especially like the holes that are next to the manholes. Not only do you drive through the hole, you get to smash your rim on a nice piece of cast iron.

posted by daddyg on Feb 04, 2014 at 05:32:30 pm     #  

The Trail is a nightmare that requires skillful avoidance of the craters. I can always tell the idiots engrossed in their cell phone chatter - they slam into every pothole.

posted by Foodie on Feb 04, 2014 at 05:32:59 pm     #   2 people liked this

the fact that the brand new repaved collingwood is starting to break up is saying a lot. it's really a nightmare out there. there is a bend on 75N right past bancroft before it turns into 475 that is an absolute killer.

posted by upso on Feb 04, 2014 at 05:47:51 pm     #   1 person liked this

Apparently they've been having problems patching holes, because the weather has been too cold for anything to set properly. Sort of a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation for the city. They can sit back and do nothing, and have people call them lazy. Or they can patch the holes, knowing they won't last, and have people mad that they're wasting money on something they know is futile.

posted by Johio83 on Feb 04, 2014 at 05:50:37 pm     #  

Or, we could try something different for a change - pave our roads with concrete.

posted by Foodie on Feb 04, 2014 at 05:56:51 pm     #  

Called it!

http://www.toledotalk.com/cgi-bin/tt.pl/article/34005/Roads

posted by Anniecski on Feb 04, 2014 at 06:10:34 pm     #  

upso posted at 04:47:51 PM on Feb 04, 2014:

the fact that the brand new repaved collingwood is starting to break up is saying a lot. it's really a nightmare out there. there is a bend on 75N right past bancroft before it turns into 475 that is an absolute killer.

Hit one of the huge ones right before the new paved part starts. Lost a tire, managed to save the rim.

posted by Nolan_Rosenkrans on Feb 04, 2014 at 06:34:09 pm     #  

Foodie posted at 04:56:51 PM on Feb 04, 2014:

Or, we could try something different for a change - pave our roads with concrete.

Shhhh. No common sense.

They started to do that down here the last few years. All new highway construction has been done in concrete and most heavily traveled city streets are concrete. We don't get prolonged cold like you do, but we do have pretty frequent freeze/thaw cycles that use to just bust the asphalt apart. A little extra money up front saves money on the back end...maybe they'll figure that out some year.

posted by JustaSooner on Feb 04, 2014 at 06:36:04 pm     #  

I've noticed on Route 20 and a couple other roads that seem to be segmented, that the connecting lines are bumped up. Thought I had a flat with the thump thump thump thump

posted by INeedCoffee on Feb 04, 2014 at 06:41:31 pm     #   1 person liked this

How about I have some people hang out the tailgate and spray some reflective paint down the Trail to mark the potholes.

posted by smbfc on Feb 04, 2014 at 10:33:24 pm     #   1 person liked this

I always wonder whether it's the effects of ice/snow or the damage done by plows that causes the potholes. It's difficult to believe that they can't create a road surface that can handle bad weather.

posted by Starr15 on Feb 05, 2014 at 12:06:23 am     #  

Starr15 posted at 11:06:23 PM on Feb 04, 2014:

I always wonder whether it's the effects of ice/snow or the damage done by plows that causes the potholes. It's difficult to believe that they can't create a road surface that can handle bad weather.

They can. I lived in Taxachusetts for a year back in the late '80's. Turned out to be one of the worst winters they had seen in a long time. We had snow storms like today's twice a week. Rarely had a delay getting to work 30 miles away and don't ever remember bottoming out in a pothole.

Now, the city streets in Boston - that's a whole 'nother story. Hopefully, they're better these days.

posted by Foodie on Feb 05, 2014 at 11:32:12 am     #  

East Broadway is now concrete. It's got to be over a foot deep. We'll see how it holds up.

posted by SherryET on Feb 05, 2014 at 02:30:51 pm     #  

Toledo Blade - Mar 2, 2014 - Winter brings more headaches in ‘Pothole Alley’ - "Rapid freeze-thaws wreak havoc on crumbling city infrastructure"

Pothole Alley refers to a band of midlatitude cities across America’s heartland that are more vulnerable to the effects of severe weather than cities to the far north or far south.

Roads are actually less vulnerable to cracking in the far north, Mr. Franklin said. In Michigan’s Upper Peninsula, northern Minnesota, or North Dakota, for example, the cold is consistent enough to keep them frozen for extended periods, he said.

To the far south, they aren’t salted much because there isn’t as much need. But in Pothole Alley, roads are constantly salted. They can’t be left to freeze over because of how often temperatures toggle above and below freezing — a pattern that places the most stress on asphalt, Mr. Franklin said.

Many more potholes are being formed now. They are expected to continue forming through mid-April. “The thing is, we haven’t see the worst of the potholes yet,” Mr. Franklin said.

There are far more potholes out there than crews realistically can fill until this summer, he said.

Theresa Pollick, Ohio Department of Transportation spokesman, said potholes are typically repaired by a cold patch mix or by hot asphalt. The hot asphalt mix is preferred because it’s more durable. But plants that produce that material often don’t operate during winter months.


posted by jr on Mar 02, 2014 at 02:04:47 pm     #  

Higher quality materials should be used to give us longer lasting roads. Leave the money in the CIP and make necessary cuts in the general fund

posted by bucknut on Mar 02, 2014 at 02:26:11 pm     #  

Not only that, they never seal the roads around here because of it costs too much. concrete has its own share of problems but is generally more durable than asphalt which seems to be the only thing Ohio will use on their roads.

posted by MIJeff on Mar 02, 2014 at 02:53:53 pm     #  

I uploaded some footage from bancroft that should make wheel and tire businesses very happy. Douglas video is currently uploading. Avoid both douglas curb lanes near ut unless you are driving a tank.

posted by EconCat88 on Mar 02, 2014 at 05:02:06 pm     #  

On a related note, photographers have found some creative ways to have fun using potholes as props. Here is a sample of the Mashable fun:

posted by historymike on Mar 02, 2014 at 05:05:52 pm     #   2 people liked this

The bad news is yet to come on the pot hole situation when the 2 feet of frost comes out of the ground.The melting snow and ice goes threw the cracks in the road and you basically have a water bed affect mixed with heavy traffic=ruts and more major pot holes, just sayen.

posted by moxie on Mar 02, 2014 at 06:05:23 pm     #  

Well as I said earlier a lot of this would be a non-issue if they would seal the roads, there is a reason you should reseal your asphalt parking lot or driveway every couple of years.

posted by MIJeff on Mar 02, 2014 at 06:20:26 pm     #  

"just sayen."

So you read today's Blade story too, especially the excerpt that I noted above:

Many more potholes are being formed now. They are expected to continue forming through mid-April.

“The thing is, we haven’t see the worst of the potholes yet,” Mr. Franklin said.


The potholes could act as natural speed bumps, forcing drivers to slow down and making the roadways safer. But unfortunately, this would adversely impact the city's revenue stream from traffic enforcement cameras. Quite the pickle. We need money to make the roads smooth, so that we can drive dangerously, which provides the city with money.

posted by jr on Mar 02, 2014 at 06:26:24 pm     #   1 person liked this

I've lived in the area for over 60 years now. This is by far the worst I've ever seen as far as potholes are concerned. Many years ago, in high school, I did a book report on highways and their construction. Sources then said the German Autobahn was the most durable highway system in the world. One reason was, the concrete used is 40 inches thick. What is it here, 12 or so inches? This might be a good place to begin, but the added cost will mean pot holes are going to be with us a long, long time.

posted by Wulf on Mar 02, 2014 at 06:27:00 pm     #  

Nah JR, they can put in toll booths on all the major causeways into the city.

posted by MIJeff on Mar 02, 2014 at 06:28:52 pm     #  

bucknut posted at 01:26:11 PM on Mar 02, 2014:

Higher quality materials should be used to give us longer lasting roads. Leave the money in the CIP and make necessary cuts in the general fund

Sorry.

Feb 15, 2014 Blade story about Toledo's 2014 budget.

In November, the Bell administration recommended the city transfer $14.1 million from the capital improvements plan budget — the same amount taken out of that fund to balance the general fund in 2013.

Then Mayor-elect Collins and then-Councilman George Sarantou, who is now city finance director, both said that number should be reduced.

Reducing the amount taken away from street repair to pay for expenses such as police and fire operations was also among Mayor Collins’ campaign promises.

However, he is still recommending council approve a 2014 budget that takes $14.1 million away from capital improvements and instead use it for the general fund.

“We are still dependent on the CIP [Capital Improvements Plan] and I truly wish we weren’t because we have a huge challenge with the condition of our streets,” Mayor Collins said. “Also, we are entering a collective bargaining year as well.”

Council must approve the budget by March 31.

posted by jr on Mar 02, 2014 at 06:51:07 pm     #  

I wonder if they cut in half the budgets of these departments: affirmative action, community relations, development, human resources, neighborhoods, plan commission, parks recreation & forestry, and the youth commission how many more roads could we pave every year?

posted by bucknut on Mar 02, 2014 at 08:33:02 pm     #  

bucknut posted at 07:33:02 PM on Mar 02, 2014:

I wonder if they cut in half the budgets of these departments: affirmative action, community relations, development, human resources, neighborhoods, plan commission, parks recreation & forestry, and the youth commission how many more roads could we pave every year?

You forgot the Department of Redundancy Department...

I'd leave parks/rec/forestry alone. That's an area that keeps up (or is supposed to) assets that every citizen can enjoy.

posted by oldhometown on Mar 03, 2014 at 12:28:30 am     #  

The Collective Bargaining negotiations ought to be interesting this time !!

posted by Hoops on Mar 03, 2014 at 09:25:05 am     #  

bucknut posted at 07:33:02 PM on Mar 02, 2014:

I wonder if they cut in half the budgets of these departments: affirmative action, community relations, development, human resources, neighborhoods, plan commission, parks recreation & forestry, and the youth commission how many more roads could we pave every year?

And stop handing out "contributions" to private "charities."

This should not be a function of government - even if we were flush with cash - which we certainly are not.

posted by Foodie on Mar 03, 2014 at 09:50:43 am     #   4 people liked this

Pretty soon the only vehicle able to be driven safely on these roads will be a monster truck.

posted by JeepMaker on Mar 04, 2014 at 11:12:46 am     #  

Has the pothole repair resumed yet? Maybe they took a break during the recent cold spell.

Cass Road has to be one of, if not, the worst in town. Drive either lane between Heatherdowns and Glendale and see what I'm talking about. 10 miles per hour max in many spots. It's like a minefield. You'd think it would be a priority considering there's a grade school.

I've already done my part, but feel free to remind them. Here is a link to the city's pothole repair request form.

posted by mixman on Apr 08, 2014 at 02:28:15 pm     #  

South Avenue right after the off ramp from 75 N is quite the adventure. I think I saw a Smart Car at the bottom of one of the pot holes.

posted by slowsol on Apr 08, 2014 at 02:46:37 pm     #   2 people liked this

The potholes on Douglas near UT didn't form this winter. That part of it was rough for a couple years. Residential streets? Be cautious on Eileen Rd between W. Bancroft and Dorr. It's a combination of speed bumps and potholes.

posted by flinty on Apr 10, 2014 at 11:57:29 pm     #  

All they have to do is seal the asphalt every couple of years and it would last a lot longer, like a driveway. Stop the water penetration and you stop 90% of the pot holes.

posted by MIJeff on Apr 11, 2014 at 12:26:11 am     #  

Seal the roads are you kidding,first of all a street gets a million cars per year an your drive maybe one thousand meaning it would wear off in a very short time. Also a sealed road would lose its grit to help you stop and if its wet and going 60 mph it would be way to slippery think about it.

posted by moxie on Apr 11, 2014 at 06:16:52 am     #  

Only sane answer is go back to bricks, horse drawn buggy and throw the smartphones in the river.

posted by Mariner on Apr 11, 2014 at 06:24:17 am     #  

The Amish Solution.

posted by justread on Apr 11, 2014 at 07:40:00 am     #  

What's the relationship between smartphones and potholes?

Some Amish in eastern Ohio use cellphones, so I think that we can keep our mobile devices if we go throwback on our roads and vehicles.

posted by jr on Apr 11, 2014 at 08:00:02 am     #   2 people liked this

South Detroit Avenue heading north toward Glendale is still pretty rough.

posted by bikerdude on Apr 11, 2014 at 08:05:44 am     #   1 person liked this

Is there a listing online somewhere of what the city and county plan to do in terms of repairs and timing?

Drove Broadway/River last night on my way home from work to see if it's passable on a bike yet (it's really not - the areas under the viaducts are still shredded badly, and there are bike-swallowing potholes all over the south end). Would love to know if/when that will be fixed.

posted by endcycle on Apr 11, 2014 at 09:52:18 am     #  

Is there a listing online somewhere of what the city and county plan to do in terms of repairs and timing?

Drove Broadway/River last night on my way home from work to see if it's passable on a bike yet (it's really not - the areas under the viaducts are still shredded badly, and there are bike-swallowing potholes all over the south end). Would love to know if/when that will be fixed.

posted by endcycle on Apr 11, 2014 at 09:52:18 am     #  

Smartphones of and by themselves are fine. The prob is they need to be connected to people.

posted by Mariner on Apr 11, 2014 at 10:38:48 am     #  

Throw the people in the river? :)

posted by justread on Apr 11, 2014 at 11:19:43 am     #   1 person liked this

Ventured down the AW Trail last week coming in to town to go to Wixey Bakery - you guys aren't exaggerating!!! The roadway is absolutely awful!!

posted by shamrock44 on Apr 12, 2014 at 08:46:18 am     #  

the WORST road by far is South Expressway Drive by the Jeep plant. If I were a business back there I'd be calling the City hourly bitching about it. And surprisingly, North Expressway Drive aka the street the Jeep workers routinely use in/out of the plant SUCKS.

posted by justareviewer on Apr 12, 2014 at 10:43:39 am     #  

I wonder if it would be feasible to go back to brick on residential streets, and keep the asphalt on the main streets? brick streets are still on the streets near the central city, and they don't seem to wear out very fast.

posted by oldorchardian on Apr 12, 2014 at 11:15:39 am     #  

Unfortunately brick is terrible in the winter. Ice forms in the cracks between the bricks and make the streets slicker.

posted by shamrock44 on Apr 12, 2014 at 11:43:30 am     #  

At this point given how bad this winter was I would be willing to pay more in taxes this year just to get this shit fixed.

posted by endcycle on Apr 13, 2014 at 03:02:16 pm     #  

A friend of mine posted this video on FB today, I thought it seemed like a pretty good solution to the pothole problem. Ignore the 45 second corny bit at the beginning.

posted by Ace_Face on Apr 24, 2014 at 03:14:50 pm     #   4 people liked this

Crossgates better hope they are not the ones that have to give up their money to fix the pot holes (for the pools). Holy crap! I had to drop off a file to a home....I would be pissed! It's like a war zone!

posted by Molsonator on Apr 30, 2014 at 01:05:00 pm     #  

Never mind critical infrastructure like drivable roads.

We want graffiti style street art on buildings. You know, something to make the community hipper.

posted by justread on Apr 30, 2014 at 01:13:08 pm     #   4 people liked this

After waiting three or four long years, Cass Road is finally being fixed. Thank you Toledo!

posted by mixman on Apr 30, 2014 at 01:17:29 pm     #  

endcycle posted at 03:02:16 PM on Apr 13, 2014:

At this point given how bad this winter was I would be willing to pay more in taxes this year just to get this shit fixed.

Oh, if only it truly worked like that..............

posted by Foodie on Apr 30, 2014 at 01:42:56 pm     #   2 people liked this

Ace_Face posted at 03:14:50 PM on Apr 24, 2014:

A friend of mine posted this video on FB today, I thought it seemed like a pretty good solution to the pothole problem. Ignore the 45 second corny bit at the beginning.

Well, this just couldn't possibly work here. It requires only one person to repair the hole. Properly.

posted by Foodie on Apr 30, 2014 at 02:37:29 pm     #   5 people liked this

Every time I hit the "plus sign" for "like this comment" - like i did for Foodie's extremely funny post, I go into a Toledo Talk nowhere land, where I have to back out of to get back to the thread. Anyone else have this problem?

posted by Molsonator on Apr 30, 2014 at 02:44:54 pm     #   5 people liked this

I just liked your post and it worked as it should have, registering the like and returning me. All seemed well.

posted by jimavolt on Apr 30, 2014 at 03:00:47 pm     #   3 people liked this

Hmm. I wonder why mine won't cycle through. Maybe when you like your own posts so many times it decides you're not worthy of using that feature. :)

posted by Molsonator on Apr 30, 2014 at 03:45:05 pm     #   2 people liked this

I have the same issue Molsonator - ever since I began using this Win 7 Pro 64 bit computer. My browser is IE10 as it was on my Win 7 Pro 32 bit machine. I've tried monkeying around with Compatibility View Settings without success.

Thanks for the "like" !

posted by Foodie on Apr 30, 2014 at 04:07:28 pm     #   1 person liked this

I just liked all three of you.
Works great. :)

posted by justread on Apr 30, 2014 at 05:07:00 pm     #   2 people liked this

I just liked a post out of curiosity and it worked fine for me and my Windoze 8.1.

posted by OnePlainPerson on Apr 30, 2014 at 05:56:40 pm     #   1 person liked this

Yep - I just liked yours OPP on my laptop running Win 8.1 Pro and IE 11 with no problem. I dunno. Figuring out the combo causing the issue could take months. I'll just deal with it.

posted by Foodie on Apr 30, 2014 at 09:57:27 pm     #  

pothole related post:

in chicago (as usual) for work and holy mother of god the pot holes are ten times worse here than toledo. so so bad.

posted by upso on Apr 30, 2014 at 10:58:00 pm     #  

Molsonator, I have the same issue on my iphone, using its installed safari browser. My likes are registering, but I do have to back-page to see the thread again. FWIW.

As for potholes, to stay on topic, when is this city going to fix the fucking Trail? Or Arlington, for that matter? (Cool, now I should be on jr's f-bomb list.) I assume there are sections of the Trail that just should be resurfaced, but Arlington has some deep craters that could probably just be filled and be fine. Are we still in "cold patch" weather?

posted by jmleong on May 01, 2014 at 02:30:01 am     #   1 person liked this

Isn't it the state's responsibility to fix the f*cking Trail since it's a state route?

posted by oldhometown on May 01, 2014 at 04:39:16 am     #  

I don't think so oldhometown, because the Maumee section of AW is just fine, leaving me to believe its Toledos responsibility.

posted by Molsonator on May 01, 2014 at 07:14:53 am     #   3 people liked this

Molsonator, I have the same problem with Win7 and Chrome. It started back when we were having other problems and jr acknowledged something was going on, no time to look for the thread, heading to work. I figured it would clear up when whatever that was got fixed. hey, jr, anything we can do about this? :)

posted by nana on May 01, 2014 at 07:56:22 am     #   1 person liked this

oldhometown posted at 04:39:16 AM on May 01, 2014:

Isn't it the state's responsibility to fix the f*cking Trail since it's a state route?

No - because Toledo is a chartered city. At least that's what I read in the story regarding the private meeting between Hizzoner The Mayor and Kasich wherein Hizzoner asked for state help with the Trail. According to Collins, Kasich turned to his assistant and said "make it happen".

It is further reported that while nothing has been cast in concrete (pun intended) the state has contacted the city and is exploring what they (the state) can do to assist.

Sooner rather than later would be nice. The Trail is a nightmare.

posted by Foodie on May 01, 2014 at 08:44:29 am     #   3 people liked this

"hey, jr, anything we can do about this?"

Try it now.

posted by jr on May 01, 2014 at 09:11:08 am     #   4 people liked this

nana posted at 07:56:22 AM on May 01, 2014:

Molsonator, I have the same problem with Win7 and Chrome. It started back when we were having other problems and jr acknowledged something was going on, no time to look for the thread, heading to work. I figured it would clear up when whatever that was got fixed. hey, jr, anything we can do about this? :)

Mine does it too, win7 with firefox.

posted by MIJeff on May 01, 2014 at 09:45:47 am     #   1 person liked this

jr posted at 09:11:08 AM on May 01, 2014:

"hey, jr, anything we can do about this?"

Try it now.

Still not working correctly for me - but it could very well be my OS/Browser combo.

posted by Foodie on May 01, 2014 at 09:55:39 am     #   2 people liked this

Just got new version of firefox, ver 29 does not happen anymore.

posted by MIJeff on May 01, 2014 at 10:56:03 am     #  

Now when you post it goes to blank screen.

posted by MIJeff on May 01, 2014 at 10:56:44 am     #  

Weird after liking Foodie's post and posting it went blank, then just posting it didn't.

posted by MIJeff on May 01, 2014 at 10:58:57 am     #   1 person liked this

Hey I am fixed...well the like button is that is.

posted by Molsonator on May 01, 2014 at 11:28:06 am     #  

jr posted at 09:11:08 AM on May 01, 2014:

"hey, jr, anything we can do about this?"

Try it now.

It worked, thanks!!!

posted by nana on May 01, 2014 at 11:48:57 am     #   1 person liked this

jr posted at 09:11:08 AM on May 01, 2014:

"hey, jr, anything we can do about this?"

Try it now.

It worked, thanks!!! edit: it worked for one post, then went back to blank screen after click and I had to back up to get back in.

posted by nana on May 01, 2014 at 11:51:02 am     #  

Try one more time. I don't experience the problem, and I cannot duplicate the problem, so I have reversed a couple changes that I made two months ago to annoy strange bots.

posted by jr on May 01, 2014 at 12:06:52 pm     #   1 person liked this

Just liked 3 posts in a row and it came right back to the post screen, thank you, sir!

posted by nana on May 01, 2014 at 12:27:58 pm     #  

Holy shit Toledo. The wife and I just got back home to Florida at 1:30 am after a lovely 8 day stay in my old home town. Her mom passed last week so we flew into Detroit and rented a car. The drive to Toledo from Romulus was like a trip down a third world country back road. When we hit the "Welcome to Ohio" sign things instantly got better. That is until the next morning when we left our hotel and had to drive around Toledo. I know this winter was really rough on you guys but what a nightmare. I was born and raised in Toledo and it was never famous for it's nice roads but I honestly thought my little rental car was doomed. I never remember the streets being anywhere as bad in the past. I really feel your pain. In my back, knees, neck etc.

posted by Wydowmaker on May 01, 2014 at 12:37:33 pm     #   3 people liked this

Works for me now as well.

Thanks jr.

posted by Foodie on May 01, 2014 at 12:58:16 pm     #   1 person liked this

Yeah! My problem with likes seems fixed, too. Thanks!

posted by jmleong on May 01, 2014 at 01:24:20 pm     #  

We could save money by not filling the potholes and using them for swimming pools.

posted by jr on May 01, 2014 at 01:40:09 pm     #   4 people liked this

That's more Irish than Mayor O'Collins.

posted by justread on May 01, 2014 at 02:23:23 pm     #   1 person liked this