Toledo Talk

Google Fiber - Logical goal for area?

http://money.cnn.com/2014/02/19/technology/google-fiber/index.html

Google has started to expand its fiber product again and selected 9 more cities to look at. None are near Toledo which maybe could open the window if the city would come together and really push for it. It would be a tremendous tool to use for business recruitment and quality of life enhancements.

The network is 1 gigibit per second, which would blow anything existing providers in the Toledo area have away. Kansas City is $70 a month for internet service and $120 bundled with video. During its role out of the network, it offers the market free slower speed internet for 7 yearsish but it comes with a one time "construction fee" of $30 to $300.

This says it all:

"These cities are led by people who have been working hard to bring faster Internet speeds and the latest technologies to their residents," the company stated in its blog post. "And they are diverse -- not just geographically, but in the ways they'll give us opportunities to learn about the wide range of challenges and obstacles that communities might face in trying to build a new fiber network."

Open the doors and welcome them in with cooperation and reap the benefits.

created by JustaSooner on Feb 19, 2014 at 09:56:59 pm     Comments: 36

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Comments ... #

I don't think we have much influence on Google showing up with fiber in this round. Rumors DO say that this is the last round of slow expansion and that Google will push nationwide within a year after the next stage. That's still a few years away, but I can promise you that all carriers are feeling the pressure. There's a reason Verizon and ATT have been laying so much fiber in every area they can - they know they're going to have to go gigabit to compete.

posted by endcycle on Feb 20, 2014 at 10:56:32 am     #  

Old news...

"Buckeye has nearly 130,000 miles of fiber-optic strands throughout the Toledo area, but they run from its headquarters on Angola Road to junction boxes in neighborhoods. From each box, coaxial copper cable runs to 250 to 500 individual homes."

"...test program by Buckeye CableSystem that allows fiber optic to be threaded quickly inside existing coaxial cable lines."

http://www.toledoblade.com/local/2009/11/26/Buckeye-CableSystem-puts-fiber-optics-lines-to-the-test.html#xglabDDojdZU3RH5.99

posted by paulhem on Feb 20, 2014 at 01:00:34 pm     #  

paulhem posted at 12:00:34 PM on Feb 20, 2014:

Old news...

"Buckeye has nearly 130,000 miles of fiber-optic strands throughout the Toledo area, but they run from its headquarters on Angola Road to junction boxes in neighborhoods. From each box, coaxial copper cable runs to 250 to 500 individual homes."

"...test program by Buckeye CableSystem that allows fiber optic to be threaded quickly inside existing coaxial cable lines."

http://www.toledoblade.com/local/2009/11/26/Buckeye-CableSystem-puts-fiber-optics-lines-to-the-test.html#xglabDDojdZU3RH5.99

Any idea how this went? I read that there was at least one other test neighborhood - a new construction development back around this time in 2010.

I'd be curious to know if this process was successful or if it has been replaced by even newer technology.

As I've stated on this board numerous times, I'm a huge cheerleader for Buckeye's service - not so much the price though you do get what you pay for generally. That said, Buckeye is going to have to step it up when it comes to speed and bandwidth or others will eventually eat their lunch. The world of streaming isn't going away any time soon.

posted by Foodie on Feb 20, 2014 at 01:53:14 pm     #  

".........Buckeye has nearly 130000 miles of fiberoptic strands throughout the Toledo area........."

Yes, unfortunately this is the case. Buckeye has strung their ugly cables and tensioners from utility poles EVERYWHERE in the area over the past decade.

posted by MariaL on Feb 20, 2014 at 01:57:59 pm     #  

"That said, Buckeye is going to have to step it up when it comes to speed and bandwidth or others will eventually eat their lunch."

Competition is more than welcome, or they will keep passing every little cost on to us until basic cable and internet costs way more than $100 a month.

Hey, wait a minute....

posted by justread on Feb 20, 2014 at 02:03:46 pm     #  

Couldn't agree more - bring on the competition. But, IMHO, TW and CC aren't the kind I'd welcome.

I recently read an article about a company with ambitious plans to launch "mini" satellites that would blanket the Earth with "free" Wi-Fi. Interesting concept. Tougher execution. Still, I'd like to see technology "safely" free us from hard wire and limited bandwidth.

posted by Foodie on Feb 20, 2014 at 02:10:06 pm     #  

At 1 gigabit how long will it take me to hit my monthly cap?

posted by MrGlass419 on Feb 20, 2014 at 07:11:17 pm     #  

^^^Assuming a sustained 1 gigabit download, 250GB (the cap I have with Buckeye) would be blown in just over 33 minutes. But since Google Fiber has no cap, it would not matter. I've been drooling ever since Fiber was announced years ago.

posted by jbtaurus98 on Feb 20, 2014 at 08:56:24 pm     #  

paulhem posted at 12:00:34 PM on Feb 20, 2014:

Old news...

"Buckeye has nearly 130,000 miles of fiber-optic strands throughout the Toledo area, but they run from its headquarters on Angola Road to junction boxes in neighborhoods. From each box, coaxial copper cable runs to 250 to 500 individual homes."

"...test program by Buckeye CableSystem that allows fiber optic to be threaded quickly inside existing coaxial cable lines."

http://www.toledoblade.com/local/2009/11/26/Buckeye-CableSystem-puts-fiber-optics-lines-to-the-test.html#xglabDDojdZU3RH5.99

Indeed...Buckeye's fiber option is old news. Unfortunately they aren't stay ahead of the curve and doing a wide deployment. If Google would enter the market with their current offering, especially offering cable-equivalent speeds for free, it would devastate Buckeye.

posted by JustaSooner on Feb 20, 2014 at 11:08:05 pm     #  

Actually the fact that Buckeye has already made the investment more than a decade ago means they have the financial advantage of fully amortized 130,000 mile investment. Anyone else would have to make a huge investment, while Buckeye just needs to pull fiber through the cable from the boxes to each home.

So Buckeye is in the position of finding the least expensive way to make that last connection for 1 Gbps.

In 2010, Joe Jensen, Executive Vice President - Cable & Telecommunications at Block Communications, Inc. said, "This fiber network could be upgraded to provide data speeds in excess of 1 Gbps,

http://www.lightwaveonline.com/articles/2010/02/buckeye-cablesystem-nears-launch-of-rfog-ftth-trial-84791997.html

posted by paulhem on Feb 21, 2014 at 05:24:55 pm     #  

Great news Paul.

So, when can we expect Buckeye to begin the process?

posted by Foodie on Feb 21, 2014 at 05:58:08 pm     #  

I have no idea. The above was found by Googling.

Speculation : Toledo will probably have 1 Gbs speeds before Google gets around to it.

It looks to me that Buckeye is still testing to find the most efficient way to make the final connections.

posted by paulhem on Feb 21, 2014 at 06:07:39 pm     #  

But Buckeye will never be able to compete on price. Google is putting in brand new fiber, and is able to offer 1000Mbps , both upstream and downstream for $70. That is less than BEX's 22 down/4 up. Hell, for $25/month for only 12 months, then its free after that, Google offers 5Mbps/1Mbps for life.

posted by jbtaurus98 on Feb 21, 2014 at 06:21:24 pm     #  

Fiber is fiber, and works the same way whether brand new or not. Also, RTFP! If you read the Forbe's story and the one quoted here, there are a lot of questions Google asks before they will even consider a deal with a city.

Here was what was uncovered when the Google deal in Kansas City was investigated.

http://m.ign.com/articles/2012/09/11/the-real-cost-of-google-fiber

The development agreement between Google and Kansas City stipulates that "Google will bear all costs for the [Fiber] project." Yet it goes on to guarantee the company:

Free power

Free office space for Google employees

Expedited permits and inspections (with fees waived)

Free marketing, including direct mail

Free right-of-way easements (i.e. Google can build anywhere they want without compensating the city for noise or increased traffic)

The right to approve or reject any public statements the city makes about Fiber

Now, those weren't preconditions for the agreement; Google may not have even suggested all of them. But the company did reject proposals from over a thousand other communities with more restrictive policies.
Kansas City may not be footing the bill for Google's infrastructure outright, but they've suspended regulations and waived fees for Google and no one else.

"Did we mention that the city has never offered another ISP any of these incentives? How about that Google's exempt from standard open access regulations that would let competitors lease the city's only fiber network to offer competing services?"

Looks like the tax payers footed some the bill, whether they wanted fiber or not.

If it looks too good to be true...

posted by paulhem on Feb 21, 2014 at 07:29:36 pm     #  

I'd love to have 1gbps and everything be free but how is this not some form of anticompetitive dumping? Kill all the competition and then charge whatever you want. Or as they are already known to do have no respect for privacy, market the heck out of you, and wall you off in a closed system.

How many of you were on the net neutrality post? Seems to be controlling the pipe would be a brilliant opening chess move for google towards a closed system.

posted by MrGlass419 on Feb 21, 2014 at 07:29:46 pm     #  

I am experiencing cognitive dissonance here...

Google is a multinational corporation. Their profits flow out of this area.

Buckeye Cable is LOCALLY owned. Their workers, support staff, administrators, BCSC reporters, etc. are all LOCAL.

Let's face it...Google is basically the Wal-Mart of the telecommunications industry. They are an internet behemoth cum big box store that will drive out the "mom and pop" (which Buckeye basically is compared to Google) stores out of business.

I am personally hoping for legislation that KEEPS GOOGLE OUT OF TOLEDO.

Buy local!

P.S. Not to open a can of worms, but does Google use union labor?

posted by Dappling2 on Feb 21, 2014 at 08:55:16 pm     #   1 person liked this

No need to worry about Google and make semi-veiled slurs about union labor. Google is as welcome here as the Daybreak Dispatch or Tom Pounds.

We don't DO competition here. Even if we need to enact anti-competition laws. Because fair and free markets are, well ANTI-AMURICAN. Like them there Chineses.

We do monopolies, and we like it.

God save Buckeye. Our own, personal, special, evil monopoly.

posted by justread on Feb 21, 2014 at 09:01:39 pm     #   3 people liked this

No semi-veiled slurs. I have an honorably discharged card from Teamsters Local 20 and from Laborers Local 500. I even have a few Woody Guthrie songs saved on my iTunes. :-)

posted by Dappling2 on Feb 21, 2014 at 09:10:03 pm     #   1 person liked this

Straight up, anti-non union slurs. Got it.

posted by justread on Feb 21, 2014 at 09:39:23 pm     #   2 people liked this

paulhem posted at 05:07:39 PM on Feb 21, 2014:

I have no idea. The above was found by Googling.

Speculation : Toledo will probably have 1 Gbs speeds before Google gets around to it.

It looks to me that Buckeye is still testing to find the most efficient way to make the final connections.

I know. I discovered that same article in an earlier Google search.

posted by Foodie on Feb 22, 2014 at 09:21:22 am     #  

Dappling2 posted at 07:55:16 PM on Feb 21, 2014:

I am experiencing cognitive dissonance here...

Google is a multinational corporation. Their profits flow out of this area.

Buckeye Cable is LOCALLY owned. Their workers, support staff, administrators, BCSC reporters, etc. are all LOCAL.

Let's face it...Google is basically the Wal-Mart of the telecommunications industry. They are an internet behemoth cum big box store that will drive out the "mom and pop" (which Buckeye basically is compared to Google) stores out of business.

I am personally hoping for legislation that KEEPS GOOGLE OUT OF TOLEDO.

Buy local!

P.S. Not to open a can of worms, but does Google use union labor?

First time I've ever seen Google put into the "Walmart of X industry" category. LOL Hope for legislation to keep them out? I'm guessing free market enterprise isn't exactly your cup of tea?

Who cares if they use union labor? Do they employee Americans? Yes. Do they give amazing benefits? Absolutely.

I really don't get your immediate jump to labeling. Is there something bad with a multinational company? If there is you better tell Owens Corning, Libbey, Chrysler, GM, etc...all to pack up and get out of your city.

posted by JustaSooner on Feb 22, 2014 at 03:12:19 pm     #  

MrGlass419 posted at 06:29:46 PM on Feb 21, 2014:

I'd love to have 1gbps and everything be free but how is this not some form of anticompetitive dumping? Kill all the competition and then charge whatever you want. Or as they are already known to do have no respect for privacy, market the heck out of you, and wall you off in a closed system.

How many of you were on the net neutrality post? Seems to be controlling the pipe would be a brilliant opening chess move for google towards a closed system.

I agree with most of what you are saying. From a net neutrality point of view, the door is already open. Verizon made the first big step in metering Netflix traffic. One could argue that usage caps are there to effectively do the same thing.

posted by JustaSooner on Feb 22, 2014 at 03:15:35 pm     #  

It would be great if Buckeye could match the service level of Google before they get here....and they WILL get here....but I'm not certain if they can pull off the neutrality part. Buckeye has been a pretty good ISP, in my opinion, however they still have caps and that won't fly in a post Google fiber world, and it's unlikely they will be able to stay neutral as they are also a content provider and someone somewhere decided cable providers aren't bound by common carrier principles.

That said, it would be great to support a local provider (almost local) and never hurts to give Google a bit of a run in competition. Just don't think it's likely they'll survive over the longer term.

Also, don't forget Google's motivation, it's not to be Walmart, it's to provide unfettered access to their, now HUGE, pool of content. I still do not understand why every content provider and carrier is not behind net neutrality, if they don't hurry up they will be begging Google to provide access to their service (they are very short-sighted in my opinion.)

posted by breeman on Feb 23, 2014 at 07:12:14 am     #  

Content...

Yes. Content is king.

The BCSN and BCSN2 content is only the beginning of Buckeye's local content - stay tuned - media convergence is happening in Toledo. Just a beginning: http://BCSN.tv

posted by paulhem on Feb 23, 2014 at 09:08:57 am     #  

The more I think about free 1gbps internet from Google I think of the episode "to serve man" from the twighlight zone.

posted by MrGlass419 on Feb 23, 2014 at 11:47:56 pm     #  

paulhem posted at 08:08:57 AM on Feb 23, 2014:

Content...

Yes. Content is king.

The BCSN and BCSN2 content is only the beginning of Buckeye's local content - stay tuned - media convergence is happening in Toledo. Just a beginning: http://BCSN.tv

They've had BCSN for how long now? So The Blade sports part is now handled by BCSN, big deal. Not having the two link was just stupid on their part, but suddenly they are having motivation to start moving. Why the sudden action? Feeling the heat with Time Warner (soon Comcast) that will control pretty much every west of 475? It's only going to be a matter of time before they get inside the loop.

I always support local, home grown companies as much as I can - however the Blocks haven't really been the best at promoting a positive Toledo.

posted by JustaSooner on Feb 24, 2014 at 01:46:58 am     #  

MrGlass419 posted at 10:47:56 PM on Feb 23, 2014:

The more I think about free 1gbps internet from Google I think of the episode "to serve man" from the twighlight zone.

Google's free internet is 7Mbps. The full 1Gbps is $70/month.

posted by jbtaurus98 on Feb 24, 2014 at 09:47:45 am     #  

Not having the two link was just stupid on their part
Why the sudden action? Feeling the heat with Time Warner (soon Comcast) that will control pretty much every west of 475? It's only going to be a matter of time before they get inside the loop.

justasooner: There are people here who like to have a conversation about the topic - which, as was pointed out, above, by @breeman is related to content. They have made it clear - tip of the hat to @justread - that they do not want a long wrangling discussions about why The Blade or Buckeye does this or that.

The point is... Content is king. Google, Apple, IBM, Twitter, John Deere, etc know this. By the way, BCSN is not "handling," or managing The Blade's sports news. This is more of a partnership, not unlike the one that The Blade has with 13abc.

posted by paulhem on Feb 24, 2014 at 02:24:47 pm     #  

"not unlike the one that The Blade has with 13abc."

Well, it would be kind of "unlike" in regard to the fact that The Blade and BCSN are under the same ownership, making finding a "partnership" like finding your hand in your own pocket. Or finding the Buckeye advertising department from the offices of WT05.

Whereas 13abc is actually independent.

posted by justread on Feb 24, 2014 at 03:54:55 pm     #   3 people liked this

Sure. "Kinda unlike..." But, also, "kinda like..." BCI is not set up in such a manner as to initiate and close a deal between BCSN and The Blade.

BCI refers to itself as a "holding company," as opposed to an operating company. That does not mean that corporate opinions, when known are ignored.

It does mean, in this case, that the media convergence is taking place on a Web site over which both entities have equal control. Both entities made the decision to do this, not BCI.

From the BCI Web site:

From the Web site http://blockcommunications.com/

"Block Communications, Inc., (BCI) is a 112-year-old privately held diversified media holding company headquartered in Toledo, Ohio."

So, like the 13abc news partnership, The Blade and BCSN agreed to work together.

Should this have happened years before? As far as some of the folks at The Blade that I hang with, we said, "About time!" when we learned of the new site.

posted by paulhem on Feb 24, 2014 at 05:09:46 pm     #  

Is there any truth to the rumor that dad always liked Allan best?

posted by justread on Feb 24, 2014 at 05:19:15 pm     #  

Are you channeling the Smother's Brothers?

posted by paulhem on Feb 24, 2014 at 05:24:33 pm     #  

Probably equally, I imagine.

Because you see, The Blade and Buckeye are owned by sons of the same father.

13abc is owned by one son of George Lilly.

posted by justread on Feb 24, 2014 at 05:27:09 pm     #  

The Smother's brothers partnership was more like the The Blade/BCSN partnership than the 13abc deal, wouldn't you agree?

posted by justread on Feb 24, 2014 at 05:28:37 pm     #  

Ha! Let me see... How to answer that...

I can not confirm nor deny any agreement.

:-)

posted by paulhem on Feb 24, 2014 at 05:31:52 pm     #