Toledo Talk

New Brewery Coming to Downtown Toledo

I am pretty excited. I wish these guys luck. I am also (being a sucker for older buildings and the history, etc. behind them) itching to get inside the place and check it out.

It is three floors. I wonder if they could put some apartments on the third floor?

created by Dappling2 on Mar 06, 2014 at 04:38:38 pm     Comments: 51

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Like the concept, wish them well. Like the location, adding to the synergy.

posted by Hoops on Mar 06, 2014 at 04:50:56 pm     #  

I worry about their lack of brewery expertise as a startup, but I hope they succeed. We don't have many good belgian-style breweries around.

posted by endcycle on Mar 06, 2014 at 06:00:03 pm     #  

It's not like they are broke young kids who have never brewed a thing.

posted by justread on Mar 06, 2014 at 06:13:54 pm     #  

I sampled their brews Saturday night at their "vision night" event. They know what they are doing.

posted by jhop on Mar 06, 2014 at 06:29:35 pm     #  

The founder of the company was a pastor at Threshold Lutheran (ELCA) church. I was looking up Gumby and Davey and Goliath episodes on YouTube. I was also limbering up my voice for "A Mighty Fortress Is Our God." before my first sip.

You gotta love the Germans! They make great beer. It was a German, Luther, who wrote the 95 Theses. Then, there was Hitler... Oh, well...

posted by paulhem on Mar 06, 2014 at 06:46:35 pm     #   1 person liked this

Hefeweizen, would kill for them to make that style of beer, or bier since its German.

posted by MIJeff on Mar 06, 2014 at 06:54:57 pm     #  

Eis Bock, bitte

posted by paulhem on Mar 06, 2014 at 06:56:24 pm     #  

Well, the Germans run it together as "eisbock"

Eisbocks are created by freezing off a portion of the water, and removing it from the beer. This form of concentration, of sorts, increases the beer's body, flavor, and alcohol content. They can range from near black to as light as tawny red. Hop bitterness and flavor are mostly cast aside with a big alcohol presence replacing it, which can range from sweet to spicy, and fruity to often times fusel. Look for a heavy or almost syrupy body with tons of malty flavor.

posted by paulhem on Mar 06, 2014 at 06:59:38 pm     #  

I can't wait!

posted by jaybeer on Mar 07, 2014 at 02:16:16 am     #  

jhop posted at 05:29:35 PM on Mar 06, 2014:

I sampled their brews Saturday night at their "vision night" event. They know what they are doing.

cool. do you get the sense that they're going to be able to scale okay? i'd be nervous about the shift from home brewing to large batches.

posted by endcycle on Mar 07, 2014 at 10:33:37 am     #  

Don't be nervous. Be thirsty. :)

posted by justread on Mar 07, 2014 at 10:48:57 am     #  

i think their BIG question is going to be what are they really going to be when they open up?

1 - a local regional microbrew with a primary business of supplying beer to other bars and consumers.

2 - a tap house that only sells beer at their own bar that caters to discerning consumers with minimal menu and atmosphere

3 - a bar/restaurant with in-house micro brew ... a great niche but as a bar/restaurant they will be competitors with other bars/restaurants and it is really a diversion from their stated goal. the WHD is always on the verge of being over run with bars...

if they are not fully committed to one of these plans and kind of try to weakly serve several masters, they are in trouble. getting to where great lakes brewery is from a business sense is a long way off and they need to build brand loyalty. it is my sense that maumee bay brewery suffered this fate for a long time and were supported by deep pockets til they figured it out.

i look forward trying them and possibly being a long term supporter.

posted by enjoyeverysandwich on Mar 07, 2014 at 11:16:51 am     #  

endcycle posted at 09:33:37 AM on Mar 07, 2014:
jhop posted at 05:29:35 PM on Mar 06, 2014:

I sampled their brews Saturday night at their "vision night" event. They know what they are doing.

cool. do you get the sense that they're going to be able to scale okay? i'd be nervous about the shift from home brewing to large batches.

I got the feeling they have been planning this for quite some time and they have done their research.They have visited many breweries and have the support of the other area breweries.

posted by jhop on Mar 07, 2014 at 11:23:26 am     #  

May initially be similar to the Holgate Tap Room/Flatrock Brewing Company. They will only be able to sell their own brews.

posted by Hoops on Mar 07, 2014 at 11:33:19 am     #  

I wasn't able to catch the whole interview this morning, but I think some of the same questions were asked/answered.

3/7 Black Cloister Brewing Company is opening up in downtown Toledo

posted by RBancroft on Mar 07, 2014 at 11:49:41 am     #  

I wonder if they'll offer some kind of baptism deal to area churches. That would be a real plus.

I'm glad to see them open and I think they'll probably make a success of the business.

posted by madjack on Mar 07, 2014 at 11:54:05 am     #  

"i'd be nervous about the shift from home brewing to large batches."

Isn't that how most if not all craft breweries got started?

Great Black Swamp Brewery

In late 2009, two home brewers had an idea to bring great craft beer to Toledo Ohio. With over 40 years of experience between us as well as a love of beer, we have been working tirelessly to make that dream a reality.

From the Blade story about the Black Cloister:

Black Cloister will initially be a taproom, meaning itís only permitted to serve its own beer. That could change later, Mr. Schaeffer said.

Excerpts from the Mar 7, 2014 WSPD interview with Black Cloister that was posted above:

  • They plan to open in the early summer.
  • The brewing equipment is coming from Arkansas, and it should arrive by the second week of April.
  • They expect that it will take a month to get the equipment setup.
  • They hope to begin brewing by the second week of May.
  • It takes three weeks for the beer to be ready.
  • Their vice president of production has been brewing since 1971.
  • This will be the first brewery in the Toledo area with a production facility and a taproom. The license for this type of setup did not become available until last July.
  • The brewery will start out with a simple setup, minimalistic, selling only their beer.
  • They will continue to build-out the first floor, customer area after they open.
  • Eventually, they hope to provide food.
  • Beer styles:
    • three year-rounds
    • six different seasonals
  • They have not named their beers yet.

posted by jr on Mar 07, 2014 at 12:43:05 pm     #  

Since this new law became available, literally, dozens of taprooms have opened up across Ohio. Downtown and short North Columbus have no less than 10. This is a great development, for sure.

Here's my concern-Have they included the 20% proceeds to the church in their business plan? I mean, they must have, right? If so, does the margin for market value products support this or will this inflate prices? I worry, because this is a bold donation considering they have no idea how much money they're bringing in. I'm personally not super excited about sending any money to any religious organization (even though these guys seem super cool and not preachy at all), although I really want to support a local craft beverage business.

posted by ahmahler on Mar 07, 2014 at 01:58:59 pm     #  

There was a place my wife and I went to in Saint Augustine called The Monks Vineyard. That would be a great model for something like this.

posted by Molsonator on Mar 07, 2014 at 02:14:27 pm     #  

How would 20% OF PROFITS inflate anything?

That's an elastic figure that is dependent on the rest of the business plan, not a fixed 20% cost that the business plan is built around. It's not bold at all.

You aren't "sending" any money to a religious organization. A business is deciding what to do with their profits, should they make any, and they've decided to allocate a small portion of hypothetical future potential profits to their church. If you ever ate at Frisch's or Ralphies, you don't even want to know how much went to First Baptist Church where Milton Bennett was a member if that is really your stance.

I feel like you and your brother protest, I mean worry a little too much. Let these grown men spend their $300,000 start up how they like and evaluate the results afterward. Sheesh.

posted by justread on Mar 07, 2014 at 02:15:59 pm     #   4 people liked this

ah, misread-not proceeds-profits. My bad-corrected view-they can do whatever they want with profits. disregard previous rant.

note to self: protest less. Got it. You too endcycle. Sage advice from someone that never protests anything.

posted by ahmahler on Mar 07, 2014 at 02:44:13 pm     #   2 people liked this

Don't worry, be thirsty. :)

posted by justread on Mar 07, 2014 at 02:51:47 pm     #   2 people liked this

I'm not protesting, just expressing my concerns. :) At no point did I say "DOOOMED" or anything. It sounds like they have their heads on straight overall and definitely have thought this through, but I do wish they had a master brewer at least consulting. This stuff's complicated. Still, they do sound knowledgeable and ready to go.

I'm DEFINITELY going there to try the beers as soon as they're open - and I AM excited about their opening. Again, belgian-style beers? Hell yeah. We don't get enough of that around here. :)

posted by endcycle on Mar 07, 2014 at 04:42:50 pm     #  

Make some Hefe or I won't have any reason to go there. Seriously I probably would never go there if there isn't any Hefeweizen. Or Crystalweizen.

posted by MIJeff on Mar 07, 2014 at 04:51:19 pm     #  

I'm really happy about the belgian-style focus as well. I am so burnt out on every damn microbrew feeling the need to put out the hoppiest IPA they can possibly brew. I used to really enjoy IPAs, but now I'm just tired of them, because they're like 90% of the microbrew market.

posted by Johio83 on Mar 07, 2014 at 05:03:38 pm     #  

I'm kind of burnt out on IPAs for the same reason.

posted by justread on Mar 07, 2014 at 05:11:53 pm     #  

we sampled a Stout, pilsner, belgian witbier and a carmel apple cider. I am somewhat new to craft/microbrew beers but i really enjoyed the beers i tried.

posted by jhop on Mar 07, 2014 at 05:53:50 pm     #  

Johio83 posted at 04:03:38 PM on Mar 07, 2014:

I'm really happy about the belgian-style focus as well. I am so burnt out on every damn microbrew feeling the need to put out the hoppiest IPA they can possibly brew. I used to really enjoy IPAs, but now I'm just tired of them, because they're like 90% of the microbrew market.

Some brilliant stuff out there in the craft IPA world that isn't blow-your-tastebuds-bitter (I'm looking at you, Dogfishhead with your 120 minute IPA).

If you haven't tried it yet - Founder's All Day IPA is spectacular. One of my all-time favorite session beers. Also, 21st amendment has a cool, slightly different IPA called Back in Black (it's a black IPA). Finally, I just had one by Jackie-O's recently called Hop Ryot (I think?) - it's a Rye IPA. That was one of the most interesting beers I've ever had, in a good way.

There are also a lot of breweries doing imperials - high grav stouts especially. i'm kind of over those as well (though New Holland's Dragon's Milk still just amazes me every time).

posted by endcycle on Mar 07, 2014 at 05:57:15 pm     #  

"(I'm looking at you, Dogfishhead with your 120 minute IPA)."

We watched an interesting show on Netflix called Brew Masters, which apparently aired on the Discovery Channel a few years ago. I think that only a half dozen episodes were produced.

The show focused on Sam Calagione, the founder and head of Dogfish Head Brewery, and his staff as they searched the world for new, ancient, and imaginative inspirations for beers.

Beer Tasting tomorrow, March 8 from 2:00 to 4:00 p.m. at The Andersons Sylvania Market, located at Sylvania and King. From a post at the Toledo Beer Aficionados Facebook group:

... we're tasting BIG BEERS (except one)
  • Stone "Go To": IPA
  • Two Bros. Revelry Imperial Red Ale
  • Knee Deep Simtra Triple IPA
  • Evil Twin Imperial Biscotti Break Natale Pretty Please with a Cherry on Top
  • Laughing Dog Bourbon Barrel-aged Imperial Stout

Fee for samples based on bottle cost - see you there!

posted by jr on Mar 07, 2014 at 06:49:11 pm     #  

I love IPAs. Bell's Two Hearted beats Founders any day of the week.

Maumee Bay's special IPA they made for the Mancy's restaurants is really good. I got a growler of it a couple of weeks ago. Maumee Bay's eclipse breakfast stout is totally awesome too.

Right now I'm enjoying a Double Crooked Tree IPA, which is totally awesome.

posted by SensorG on Mar 07, 2014 at 07:37:30 pm     #  

Yes-all about the balanced IPA's! That said, I'm drinking a Jackie-o's Hop Ryot at the moment, and it rocks. Jackie-o's is the best brewery in Ohio in my opinion. Two hearted is benchmark, and pretty impossible to beat from a balance standpoint.

posted by ahmahler on Mar 07, 2014 at 09:29:33 pm     #  

Sorry, that was really poorly written and I used the word 'awesome' twice, which is two times too many.

I blame it on my second pint of IPA...carry on. :)

posted by SensorG on Mar 07, 2014 at 09:30:47 pm     #   2 people liked this

sensor.... founders all day ipa acheives a great taste at a much lower alcohol content, hence "all day" and the term "session"... love two hearted as well, yes, it is better than all day, but after a couple of those out at village idiot one has to shut down ones drinking in order to get back to the west side of town safely.

agree the paleale and IPA demand hand has driven too many good alternatives out of the market... sweet and high hop beers are easier to make very acceptable while other more subtle varieties are morre difficult to get right... thinking of the lips of faith collection. even a good crisp alt or pils is difficult and scarse these days.

was out in denver last month... micros and tap houses popping up everywhere... stopped at one that was all sour mashes.... a dozens varietys each more lip puckering sour than the previous... i will admit it was difficult to get through my tasting platter.

i am assuming or hoping at least that with the new brewery named after a monastery that the occurance of belgian type hefe will indeed be featured style of beer

posted by enjoyeverysandwich on Mar 08, 2014 at 08:59:38 am     #   1 person liked this

I'm hoping for some solid dubbels and quads

posted by taliesin52 on Mar 08, 2014 at 09:44:47 pm     #  

All Day IPA is still a hearty 4.7%. I would have trouble drinking them all day!

posted by jimavolt on Mar 09, 2014 at 10:54:52 am     #  

At 4.7, it's close to Bud Light (in alcohol content, not flavor), but you'll last way longer into the day on it than Two Hearted (7%) or the Double Crooked Tree IPA that I enjoy at 12%.

posted by SensorG on Mar 09, 2014 at 11:02:39 am     #  

@TaylorDungjen just tweeted the link to the Black Cloister KickStarter page.

posted by paulhem on Mar 10, 2014 at 02:49:18 pm     #  

"We plan to brew some of our favorite styles (with our own flare), including:

American IPA
Imperial IPA
Russian Imperial Stout
Belgian Witbier
Scotch Ale
German and Bohemian Pilsners"

okay, I'm down for $25.

posted by endcycle on Mar 10, 2014 at 03:53:02 pm     #  


You motivated me to drop $25 too.


posted by paulhem on Mar 10, 2014 at 06:09:15 pm     #  

Mar 10, 2014 - So You Think You Want to Open a Brewery...

It's a post about the HenHouse Brewing Company.

Corresponding Hacker News discussion.

"Some" excerpts from the lengthy post:

The bad news is that what I'm about to say may not make opening a brewery sound like that much fun. I've come to a general theory of brewery work: it's not what you think it is.

The joke is that brewing is 90% cleaning and 10% paperwork. Except that it's not a joke at all. It's just how brewery life is.

Beer requires an absurd amount of sanitary vessels and the fermentation and packaging process leaves a trail of very dirty vessels, tools, and instruments in its wake. If you're considering this line of work, you better be the kind of person who finds doing the dishes relaxing.

Cleaning floors, cleaning tanks, cleaning hoses, cleaning kegs, cleaning glasses, cleaning drains, cleaning parts: every day in a brewery starts with cleaning and ends with cleaning.

To be a good brewer, you'll also need to be patient, methodical, and not easily bored.

Almost any action in a brewery can be expressed as "Clean, record data, action, record data, clean."

Things in the brewery break, invariably at very inconvenient times, and you'll need to fix them. Folks with knowledge of small motors and electrician training are revered, and stainless steel welders are legendary.

Knowledge of the biological and chemical science behind brewing process is certainly useful, but your job as a brewer will be cleaning and paperwork first and foremost.

One last warning: you'd better enjoy being at work, because you will be there all the time. Fermentation is a 24/7 activity that doesn't really care about your weekend plans.

Learn about the local regulatory environment, learn about accounting and basic finance, learn about sales. As a co-owner of a startup brewery, I spend way more time working on regulatory compliance than I do making beer. Same with digging through P&L statements and writing budgets. And sales work is endless and exhausting. Owning a brewery is more about running a business than brewing beer.

There are federal and state agencies that get all up in the business of any booze maker, and the wastewater treatment folks in your municipality will want to have more than a few words with you before you start operations.

Being intimately aware of the financial health of your company might not be glamorous, but it is as important as monitoring your fermentations or selecting hops.

The best advice I can give you about financial planning is this: write a business plan and then double what you think it will cost, because it will cost you double what you think it will.

Maybe all of this sounds pretty negative. It's not meant to be. Starting a brewery is the best thing I've ever done and I'm stoked about it every single morning. But don't think for a minute it's not hard and scary.

Still want to be a brewer? I hope so! I still believe that brewing is magical. Sure, it's hot, dirty, and wet. It's labor-intensive work that will make you forget how to enjoy drinking beer and give you some borderline-OCD cleaning tendencies. But it's also an ancient art, one that yields deliciousness at the end of the process, and I can promise you there is nothing quite as fulfilling as having people enjoy beer you made.

posted by jr on Mar 10, 2014 at 11:59:44 pm     #  

I think they're making a mistake by not selling SOME sort of food that would not require a kitchen and cooking. If you're selling beer, you need to sell something to nosh on; something more than a small bag of chips.

Roasted peanuts, landjaegers, hard-boiled eggs (better yet, pickled eggs), simple sandwiches such as salami, liverwurst, and cheese, precooked brats or polish sausage that only need to be warmed, not cooked. For all of the above you don't even need paper plates. If they wanted to be fancy, they could do up some German style radishes.

posted by Bandito on Mar 11, 2014 at 10:39:31 pm     #  

Bavarian style hot pretzels with mustard

posted by Dappling2 on Mar 11, 2014 at 10:45:00 pm     #  

We just visited rhinegeist brewery in Cincinnati, and that's what they served-Bavarian style hot pretzels. In fact, that's all they had.

posted by ahmahler on Mar 11, 2014 at 10:46:56 pm     #  

From the Blade story that started this thread:

Itís kitty-corner from Table 44 ...

At least initially, I think the Black Cloister plans to offer its customers the menu from Table 44 who will deliver the food. Something like that. That was mentioned in their second interview with Fred at WSPD.

Maybe pose the food question to their Facebook page.

"... they served-Bavarian style hot pretzels."

I'm unsure what a Bavarian-style pretzel is, but my wife makes a pretty good Trilby-style pretzel. And we make our own mustard, which is simple to do. I might have to smuggle these items into the Black Cloister.

posted by jr on Mar 11, 2014 at 11:36:25 pm     #  

They said take in food will be allowed.

posted by jhop on Mar 12, 2014 at 10:38:36 am     #  

jhop posted at 10:38:36 AM on Mar 12, 2014:

They said take in food will be allowed.


Now we need hotdog vendors and such to congregate there....

posted by endcycle on Mar 12, 2014 at 10:43:53 am     #  

ok...the Brewery has a European look. What foods go great with beer and are easy to prepare i.e. no need for fryers or grease?

Sample Menu

1. Hot pretzels with mustard and/or beer cheese sauce
2. Bratwurst and Knockwurst
3. Potato chips
4. Hot sandwiches
5. Veggies (radishes, dips, etc.)
6. Nachos

I was going to say pizza, but if the goal is differentiation, a microbrewery with pizza has been done before close by

posted by Dappling2 on Mar 12, 2014 at 01:57:04 pm     #  

Given the Belgian influences, some Moule Frites would be spectacular' with the accompaniment of assorted dipping sauces.

posted by Johio83 on Mar 12, 2014 at 02:18:17 pm     #   1 person liked this

I've been saying it for awhile but this Hannon's Block building absolutely needs an outstanding mural on it. Better than the Toledo Loves Love one, which itself is a positive for Adams.

Columbus' Short North has done an excellent job with their murals, the Warehouse District needs to step up.

posted by BusterBluth on Mar 12, 2014 at 07:24:23 pm     #  

Latest that I've heard is the Black Cloister plans to start brewing in August, and they will open to the public in September. They will emphasize Belgian-style beers, such as Strong, Wit, Trippel, and Saison. They will also offer other styles.

My wife and I have brewed several beers at home this spring and early summer, including Belgian-styles, such as Wit, Blonde, and Trippel, so we're looking forward to the Black Cloister opening.

In recent months, we've sampled a fair number of commercial beers, and our prefs right now are for the Belgian styles. I like those funky, flavorful Belgian yeast strains, which sounds funny to say.

I like the beers produced by New York state brewery Ommegang. But lately, we've narrowed down our purchases at The Andersons to Trappist beers. Only 10 Trappist breweries exist. Their beer bottles contain the "Authentic Trappist Product" logo. The Andersons sells beer from at least six of those breweries.

The Rochefort 10 Trappist Belgian Ale is amazing. But we've enjoyed the others too, such as La Trappe Trappist Ale, Chimay Ale (blue label), Westmalle Trappist Ale, Achel Brune, and Orval Trappist Ale.

The only U.S. Trappist brewery is located at St. Joseph's Abbey in Massachusetts. Their beer is called Spencer Trappist Ale. If anyone knows how to acquire that beer besides going to Massachusetts, let me know.

A bit about the story behind Spencer Trappist Ale:

Of course, breweries like to design and sell their own glassware.

The Spencer glass was designed, through the collaborative efforts of the monks, Libbey Glass, and other expert consultants, to be the perfect glass for enjoying our Trappist Ale.

Now that we're clicking off some 90-degree days, I wish we had some Belgian farmhouse ale on hand, something a little lighter than a Belgian quad. But our homemade Belgian wit beer will substitute well later this evening.

Belgium defeated Algeria today in World Cup Soccer.

posted by jr on Jun 17, 2014 at 04:36:59 pm     #  

Yes! Belgium! Congrats on them winning, but my excitement is beer related. :)

posted by paulhem on Jun 17, 2014 at 05:44:54 pm     #