Toledo Talk

Off duty cop carries gun into school, sends 2 schools into lockdown

I hesitated to post this story because it seems that people lose their damn minds when the issue of guns come up, but here goes. So this morning an ununiformed, off duty police officer dropping his kid off at Toledo Christian decides it is a good idea to walk into the school with his piece on his belt. Someone sees it, calls the police and before you know it, both Toledo Christian and OLPH are on lockdown. Here's what happened next:

Toledo police contacted the off-duty officer, who works for a different community, and he confirmed that he had been at Toledo Christian dropping off his own child at the time the call came in, Sergeant Heffernan said. Toledo officers suggested to him that in the future, he either conceal his weapon or wear his police uniform to avoid causing alarm, the sergeant said.

Umm, do they really not know that federal law prohibits anyone from carrying a gun into a school (besides on duty police)? Also, I gotta believe Toledo Christian prohibits the carrying of guns into the school. This guy caused two schools to lockdown and they just tell him to "conceal his weapon" next time? Idiots.

Read more at http://www.toledoblade.com/Police-Fire/2014/05/08/Toledo-Christian-School-in-S-Toledo-on-lockdown.html#Wlp5BPR3J2R4yrYJ.99

http://www.toledoblade.com/Police-Fire/2014/05/08/Toledo-Christian-School-in-S-Toledo-on-lockdown.html

created by Ace_Face on May 08, 2014 at 05:16:38 pm     Comments: 42

source      versions      1 person liked this


Comments ... #

Consequence of psychotic anti gun mentality and the establishment of anti-gun zones. It is truly sad when I compare my childhood experiences from school with what is reported as the norm in today's schools.

posted by MIJeff on May 08, 2014 at 05:37:01 pm     #   2 people liked this

"Umm, do they really not know that federal law prohibits anyone from carrying a gun into a school (besides on duty police)"

That's not accurate. LEOSA allows off duty and retired police officers to carry into places such as schools that normally prohibit firearm possession. It largely depends on that individual department's policies in terms of what they expect of the officer off duty.

posted by taliesin52 on May 08, 2014 at 06:30:22 pm     #  

Umm, do they really not know that federal law prohibits anyone from carrying a gun into a school (besides on duty police)?

That is not accurate; in some circumstances an off duty LEO can carry a firearm into a school, although I do believe it has to be concealed carry, not open carry. But if the guy is 'dressed' with his firearm holstered and badge on, then I would make the argument that he may never actually be 'off-duty' (like someone in a command position or detective).

Also, I gotta believe Toledo Christian prohibits the carrying of guns into the school.

I disagree; schools can give permission to people to carry on the property and since we are talking about a LEO, its possible that they did. And the permission doesn't have to be made public, it can be made confidentially.

I'm not bothered by the concerned parent calling, and I'm not bothered by the off-duty LEO carrying a holstered firearm. I would think the school knew they had a parent who was a LEO and was able to ID the guy so TPD could track him down ASAP. I do think this could have been avoided by the caller simply asking the guy first, instead of calling ... if the guy carrying a gun was truly dangerous, that phone call would have cost more lives in lost time instead of handling the issue directly.

posted by MrsArcher on May 08, 2014 at 06:49:06 pm     #   1 person liked this

taliesin52 posted at 06:30:22 PM on May 08, 2014:

"Umm, do they really not know that federal law prohibits anyone from carrying a gun into a school (besides on duty police)"

That's not accurate. LEOSA allows off duty and retired police officers to carry into places such as schools that normally prohibit firearm possession. It largely depends on that individual department's policies in terms of what they expect of the officer off duty.

Actually, no, LEOSA does not overrule the Gun Free School Zone Act, but it does allow LEO with Concealed Carry permits in their resident state to carry in schools in their resident state.

I assume that means they have to carry concealed, but actually I can't confirm that in my research.

posted by MrsArcher on May 08, 2014 at 06:51:32 pm     #  

I agree with you in general Mrs. Archer, but I have to say that I wouldn't be comfortable approaching someone with a holster and asking him why he was wearing it.

I wouldn't call the police directly either though. If anything, I might mention something in the office if I thought there was reason to be suspicious about the individual's demeanor.

posted by mom2 on May 08, 2014 at 08:48:45 pm     #  

Me: Excuse me, kind sir with the hand cannon strapped to your belt, can you explain to me why you feel the need to have that in my childrens' school at 8 a.m.?

Nope, nope, nope. I'm calling the cops. I don't give a crap about his reasons and I care even less about seeming polite and asking in the office. Why waste the time? If he's getting ready to shoot someone, I want the cops on the way.

posted by Anniecski on May 08, 2014 at 09:04:53 pm     #   1 person liked this

If he's getting ready to shoot someone, I want the cops on the way.

When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

He wasn't getting ready to shoot anyone; and if he was - they would have been dead by the time the police arrived. With all due respect, the police are not there to stop crime, they are there to clean up afterwards.

If I thought a gunman was in my child's school - you better believe I would be walking up to him and figuring out how to disarm him instead of letting him take aim at children.

posted by MrsArcher on May 08, 2014 at 09:20:22 pm     #   6 people liked this

"If he's getting ready to shoot someone, I want to be cremated."

Fixed it.

posted by justread on May 08, 2014 at 09:28:32 pm     #   3 people liked this

Total state of paranoia

posted by TrilbyGuy on May 09, 2014 at 12:17:41 am     #   2 people liked this

Total state of how effing stupid do you have to be to bring a gun into a school. Unless you are there, on duty, serving the public and protecting those kids? Jesus Christ.

posted by toledolen_ on May 09, 2014 at 12:35:44 am     #   1 person liked this

When is a police officer ever truly off duty and not serving the public or looking out for the welfare of the kids. I think he would have been smart to let someone know he was in the school and exactly who he was, then there would have been NO issue.

posted by MIJeff on May 09, 2014 at 02:05:18 am     #  

Anniecski posted at 09:04:53 PM on May 08, 2014:

Me: Excuse me, kind sir with the hand cannon strapped to your belt, can you explain to me why you feel the need to have that in my childrens' school at 8 a.m.?

Nope, nope, nope. I'm calling the cops. I don't give a crap about his reasons and I care even less about seeming polite and asking in the office. Why waste the time? If he's getting ready to shoot someone, I want the cops on the way.

A couple of thoughts:

-What is a "hand cannon?"

-"Feeling the need" is not a prerequisite requirement for bearing arms in this country.

-Being armed is not an indication of intent to commit a crime. That's why a reasonable person might consider following up on their concerns, based on their personal issues and fears rather (in the complete absence of a credible threat) before wasting needed resources by calling the cops on a cop. Ignorance and prejudice can often increase a person's fear where a true threat doesn't exist.

Now, having said that, and being aware of the extreme hypersensitivity to firearms brought on by the bad acts of a variety of mentally disturbed young students in recent years, I wouldn't have carried into a school if I could have avoided it. But I am not a sworn peace officer in this state, either.

If you want to be afraid, fear your child's classmates. It is unfortunately from among this group that most potential credible threats will ever come. Not from another child's police officer father, regardless of whether he is in possession of a firearm.

Responsible firearm owners don't immediately assume the worst when they see another individual acting normally, but carrying a firearm. The familiarity eliminates the ignorance that create the fear and prejudice.

posted by justread on May 09, 2014 at 07:23:53 am     #   12 people liked this

Justread

Thank you. No one could have said it better.

posted by Wydowmaker on May 09, 2014 at 07:35:51 am     #  

Very well said justread.

posted by webrioter on May 09, 2014 at 08:14:10 am     #  

Would have but the sumbitch beat me to it. smiles

posted by Mariner on May 09, 2014 at 08:14:42 am     #  

"He had a badge on his belt" but that was overlooked, Sergeant Heffernan said."

Maybe people could use a little common sense before they flip their shit? I understand people are a little jumpy, but how about we pay attention before you induce a panic.

posted by hunkytownsausage on May 09, 2014 at 08:38:21 am     #   6 people liked this

"If you want to be afraid, fear your child's classmates. It is unfortunately from among this group that most potential credible threats will ever come. Not from another child's police officer father, regardless of whether he is in possession of a firearm. "

Of maybe junior is already on the road to cop trouble and incarceration.

posted by MIJeff on May 09, 2014 at 08:48:48 am     #  

I don't believe Adam Lanza was a classmate of any of the first graders he massacred, nor was he a coworker of the teachers and principal.

Oh, wait I can't mention him here, right? Because he was the exception, not the rule? And what he did was so out of the norm?

Except that it wasn't out of the norm. There have been nearly 50 school shootings since Newtown.

Get over yourselves, gun nuts. If I see you carrying anywhere near me, I'm yelling "Gun!" and running like hell. And dialing 911 while I'm at it. If you get slammed to the pavement, too damned bad.

posted by Anniecski on May 09, 2014 at 09:07:34 am     #  

I'm in no way a gun nut. But the fact that you are going to run like hell just because you see someone with a holstered gun, is just sad and ignorant on your part.

posted by hunkytownsausage on May 09, 2014 at 09:11:07 am     #   8 people liked this

I'm also not sure I would yell "GUN". A person with a gun who is up to no good is going to want to silence the noisiest target first.

posted by Sohio on May 09, 2014 at 09:20:59 am     #   1 person liked this

If I see you carrying anywhere near me, I'm yelling "Gun!" and running like hell.

That would have been a better response in this situation because then it could have been dealt with immediately and not have the schools on lock down for 2 hours, panicking parents, because the chicken shit caller didn't have the balls to approach the 'threat' directly. He'd rather let someone carrying a gun walk around a school un-approached.

Ignorance and prejudice

Just brings me to question - what color was the off duty LEO? And did that play in to it at all?

I don't believe Adam Lanza was a classmate of any of the first graders he massacred, nor was he a coworker of the teachers and principal.

Justread said 'most' not 'all' credible threats. I believe about 70% of school shootings involve minor assailants, thus typically assumed to be classmates.

posted by MrsArcher on May 09, 2014 at 09:29:16 am     #  

Someone brought a gun into a Maumee elementary on accident a few weeks ago after hours and wound up arrested. The law is super clear on this one: DON'T. BRING. A. GUN. INTO. A. SCHOOL. Period. I don't care what side of the fence you're on with regards to gun rights, the law as it exists is really, really really clear.

Gun owners - rather than being unhappy about the response to the law being broken, maybe you should take a moment to applaud the laws being enforced as they are written. After all, one of the main arguments I hear about gun regulation is that the law is not enforced, and that we should better enforce the laws we HAVE before we start writing new ones.

Shouldn't you be thrilled about the law being enforced?

posted by endcycle on May 09, 2014 at 09:38:00 am     #   2 people liked this

The law wasn't broken though. He was a police officer wearing his badge on his belt while carrying a holstered gun. The facts are pretty clear.

posted by hunkytownsausage on May 09, 2014 at 09:40:23 am     #   1 person liked this

the law as it exists is really, really really clear.

Endcycle - did you miss that the guy was law enforcement? Law enforcement can bring a gun in to school in certain circumstances.

I do agree, current laws need to be enforced. But I'm not sure any were broken here.

posted by MrsArcher on May 09, 2014 at 09:44:01 am     #   1 person liked this

MrsArcher posted at 09:29:16 AM on May 09, 2014:

If I see you carrying anywhere near me, I'm yelling "Gun!" and running like hell.

That would have been a better response in this situation because then it could have been dealt with immediately and not have the schools on lock down for 2 hours, panicking parents, because the chicken shit caller didn't have the balls to approach the 'threat' directly. He'd rather let someone carrying a gun walk around a school un-approached.

Ignorance and prejudice

Just brings me to question - what color was the off duty LEO? And did that play in to it at all?

I don't believe Adam Lanza was a classmate of any of the first graders he massacred, nor was he a coworker of the teachers and principal.

Justread said 'most' not 'all' credible threats. I believe about 70% of school shootings involve minor assailants, thus typically assumed to be classmates.

I believe that 0% involve parents of the students who are police officers wearing a badge.

posted by justread on May 09, 2014 at 09:45:24 am     #  

Anniecski posted at 09:07:34 AM on May 09, 2014:

I don't believe Adam Lanza was a classmate of any of the first graders he massacred, nor was he a coworker of the teachers and principal.

Oh, wait I can't mention him here, right? Because he was the exception, not the rule? And what he did was so out of the norm?

Except that it wasn't out of the norm. There have been nearly 50 school shootings since Newtown.

Get over yourselves, gun nuts. If I see you carrying anywhere near me, I'm yelling "Gun!" and running like hell. And dialing 911 while I'm at it. If you get slammed to the pavement, too damned bad.

You can mention Adam Lanza. He was not a police officer, or even a concealed carrier. He was a FREAKING MENTAL CASE who stole the gun from his mother, who should have made sure it was locked up.

Be sure to leave your name when you unnecessarily create a panic because of your low emotional intelligence, ignorance, prejudice and fear of people who mean you no harm, and have not acted in a threatening manner towards you. Your fantasy that a person carrying would be slammed to the ground speaks volumes about your true perspective as a member of the lunatic anti-gun fringe.

If you gave a damn about the little schoolchildren you use as political pawns in your anti-gun crusade, you'd prioritize teen mental health as your focus over the millions of armed grown-ups who will live their entire lives and die without ever hurting anyone.

I have been in the presence of hundreds of armed people in my many years as a recreational shooter. It is amazing how well behaved armed adults can be. It is that actual experience and familiarity that prevent me from feeling the irrational fear that you are experiencing.

There is a "nut" here alright.
But it wasn't an inanimate firearm that caused it.

posted by justread on May 09, 2014 at 09:57:10 am     #   4 people liked this

I believe that 0% involve parents of the students who are police officers wearing a badge.

I was just going to say that! But, as usual, you can't JustSitOnYourHands and let someone else take a swing at the piņata. How are the rest of us going to learn how to lean on some fascist's big red button unless you give us a chance? I know, I know. You can't wait forever.

Anyway, you did a great job with your well-reasoned and concise contribution to this discussion. Here's a tip of the old fedora and a hoist of my morning bourbon glass to you, Sir. Nicely done.

Shouldn't you be thrilled about the law being enforced?

No, we should not be thrilled that the law is being enforced, and I don't care what you've heard nor from whom you've heard it - and that includes the voices you're in denial about.

If someone's little precious throws a rod and decides to columbine his high school, do you really believe that a law prohibiting the bearing of arms in and around the school will stop him? Do you think it will even slow him down? What do you think goes through a terrorist's mind, anyway?

This law does absolutely nothing to contribute to school safety. It's only purpose is to reassure the sheeple that the government, in its infinite wisdom, has the situation well under control. Until the next time.

From MrsArcher: Just brings me to question - what color was the off duty LEO? And did that play in to it at all?

Yeah, I wondered about that as well. As to race being a factor, no one will ever admit it. Certainly not anyone from a good Christian school, even if they are questioned. Even under duress. But I'll give you 30 to 1 odds that if the LEO was black, race played a major factor.

posted by madjack on May 09, 2014 at 10:13:27 am     #  

The only thing that will stop a bad person with a gun is a good person with a gun. You can be damn sure that every parent of every child that attended a school that had a shooting tragedy wishes there was a good person with a gun present when the tragedy occurred - no matter what their stance on guns is or was. Unfortunately we will never be able to end violence of any type, but we can minimize the tragic results of someone who is intent on harming others. We must be proactive, not reactive.

posted by Mike21 on May 09, 2014 at 10:15:16 am     #   4 people liked this

The law wasn't broken though. He was a police officer wearing his badge on his belt while carrying a holstered gun. The facts are pretty clear.

An off duty officer whose badge was not seen.

I'd also like to know if the school prohibits weapons on campus. I would imagine that they do, but don't know for sure. If so, I'd think that property rights would trump CCW.

Some interesting background on off-duty officer carry from the FBI: http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/law-enforcement-bulletin/january2011/off_duty_firearms

posted by Ace_Face on May 09, 2014 at 10:16:06 am     #  

MrsArcher posted at 09:44:01 AM on May 09, 2014:

the law as it exists is really, really really clear.

Endcycle - did you miss that the guy was law enforcement? Law enforcement can bring a gun in to school in certain circumstances.

I do agree, current laws need to be enforced. But I'm not sure any were broken here.

see ace_face's post right before this one. it wasn't clear that he was a LEO, and "certain circumstances" are pretty restrictive from my understanding. Cops ESPECIALLY should know better.

posted by endcycle on May 09, 2014 at 10:18:32 am     #  

"But, as usual, you can't JustSitOnYourHands and let someone else take a swing at the piņata."

Sorry. Swing away, Merrill. :)

posted by justread on May 09, 2014 at 10:18:53 am     #   2 people liked this

justread posted at 10:18:53 AM on May 09, 2014:

"But, as usual, you can't JustSitOnYourHands and let someone else take a swing at the piņata."

Sorry. Swing away, Merrill. :)

Did you know that snorting bourbon is painful?

posted by madjack on May 09, 2014 at 10:24:36 am     #  

He might not have been a LEO. He might have been an ARIES. That's the other aggressive zodiac sign, as I understand it. Cancer and Scorpio are this way, generally only when provoked.

I say this as a proud Gemini; the twins. Dual personality and motives. Astrological ability to see both sides.

posted by Sohio on May 09, 2014 at 10:25:18 am     #   1 person liked this

do you really believe that a law prohibiting the bearing of arms in and around the school will stop him?

Madjack, answer this question, yes or no:

Since you can't effectively force any person to obey any law, is there any point in effecting any law whatsoever?

I just need a "yes' or "no" on that.

I'm not a gun control advocate, so I don't need any dissertation on how I may or may not be aligned with Adolf Hitler. I'm just asking the question. Please respond.

posted by Sohio on May 09, 2014 at 10:30:27 am     #  

I was just in Toledo a little over a week ago and if we had met you might have noticed i was carring a gun. If you ever see me doing so please feel free to scream and yell and run your legs off. You might not be aware that Ohio is actually an open carry state. i rarely carry open but do on occasion. I did in fact do it this last time and was viewed doing so by several of Toledo's finest and not a word was said. you might want to go to the state AG's website and review the laws.

posted by Wydowmaker on May 09, 2014 at 11:25:30 am     #   5 people liked this

Above post was addressed to Mrs. Archer's comments. Sorry but that part did not post.

posted by Wydowmaker on May 09, 2014 at 11:26:48 am     #  

Yeah, I wondered about that as well. As to race being a factor, no one will ever admit it. Certainly not anyone from a good Christian school, even if they are questioned. Even under duress. But I'll give you 30 to 1 odds that if the LEO was black, race played a major factor.

The LEO in question was not TPD and, if I had to guess based on the location of the school, was probably Maumee. Not sure I have ever seen a black Maumee cop.

posted by Ace_Face on May 09, 2014 at 12:07:35 pm     #   1 person liked this

I was just in Toledo a little over a week ago and if we had met you might have noticed i was carring a gun. If you ever see me doing so please feel free to scream and yell and run your legs off. You might not be aware that Ohio is actually an open carry state. i rarely carry open but do on occasion. I did in fact do it this last time and was viewed doing so by several of Toledo's finest and not a word was said. you might want to go to the state AG's website and review the laws.

Above post was addressed to Mrs. Archer's comments. Sorry but that part did not post.

I think you must mean Annieski, because I am the last person who would run when seeing someone carrying open; I've been in a few open carry events though I have never open carried outside of an organized event, and at work we prefer concealed carry as opposed to open carry.

posted by MrsArcher on May 09, 2014 at 03:55:58 pm     #   1 person liked this

MrsArcher

My apology. I tagged the wrong person. I was on a laptop at work on my lunch break and in the process of scrolling through and speed reading the responses had one of those senior moments. No offense intended to either party.

posted by Wydowmaker on May 09, 2014 at 05:12:44 pm     #  

From Sohio: Madjack, answer this question, yes or no:

It's going to be Monday or Tuesday before I get around to composing a suitable answer that doesn't get the thread moved into the back room.

I've got two close friends that have passed away. It sucks to be me right now.

posted by madjack on May 09, 2014 at 11:33:44 pm     #  

madjack posted at 11:33:44 PM on May 09, 2014:

From Sohio: Madjack, answer this question, yes or no:

It's going to be Monday or Tuesday before I get around to composing a suitable answer that doesn't get the thread moved into the back room.

I've got two close friends that have passed away. It sucks to be me right now.

Then don't bother.

I was just going to make a point about viable arguments...

I dont want to add anything to what sounds like an already trying time for you...especially over something so trivial, that you & I likely mostly agree on, in every sense but semantics.

Some things are more important than fun on a message board.

Sorry for your loss, MJ.

posted by Sohio on May 10, 2014 at 12:24:39 am     #   1 person liked this

http://www.bluesheepdog.com/leosa-school-grounds/

posted by jhop on May 16, 2014 at 04:13:14 pm     #