Toledo Talk

More clerks cited for selling alcohol to minors.

According to Ch 13 News, Perrysburg police cited 11 people in a sting operation after they sold alcohol to minors and sent the names of the businesses involved to the Ohio Investigative Unit to decide if those businesses will lose their liquor licenses. There is no mention of the 11 people who broke the law or if they will be prosecuted. If the Fox case was about just selling alcohol to minors - and not the tragic deadly results that the alcohol ended up causing - this is a perfect example of selective prosecution. Is Perrysburg more selective about prosecuting lawbreakers than Toledo is?

created by Mike21 on May 17, 2014 at 09:36:06 am     Legal     Comments: 27

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The violators in Perrysburg are being prosecuted - the article says they have to appear in court and face up to six months in jail (the Hoeflinger clerk got 6 months) and $1000 fine.

I think one major difference is Perrysburg has the police resources to conduct sting operations like this whereas Toledo does not have the resources to proactively pursue this.

posted by MrsArcher on May 17, 2014 at 10:08:02 am     #   1 person liked this

Also, many of these stings are triggered by information the police receive about illegal alcohol sales. Some teenager gets busted for possessing alcohol, and you can bet that kid will sing when the police ask where the alcohol was purchased.

Occasionally OIU will conduct random compliance checks, but more frequently they do not waste time on fishing expeditions, focusing instead on the known problems.

posted by historymike on May 17, 2014 at 10:34:40 am     #  

I guess we'll have to wait and see if and how much each gets fined and how much - if any - jail time they receive.

posted by Mike21 on May 17, 2014 at 10:43:09 am     #   1 person liked this

"There is no mention of the 11 people who broke the law"

Their names were in the blade online.

posted by justread on May 17, 2014 at 10:48:25 am     #  

I don't read the blade... saw the story on 13 News... time constraints kept them from mentioning the names I would guess.

posted by Mike21 on May 17, 2014 at 11:07:30 am     #  

Mike21 posted at 10:43:09 AM on May 17, 2014:

I guess we'll have to wait and see if and how much each gets fined and how much - if any - jail time they receive.

The other issue is that the clerk in the Hoeflinver case had already been nailed once for selling to minors. No idea if those caught in the Perrysburg sting are first offenders or not.

posted by MrsArcher on May 17, 2014 at 03:23:02 pm     #   1 person liked this

Can you imagine how bad one feels when you have to turn down a drink to a guy home on leave or one fresh out of boot camp?

posted by SherryET on May 18, 2014 at 08:46:55 am     #   1 person liked this

Oh. Fun with proverbial hypotheticals. I want to play.

Can one imagine how bad one feels when one illegally serves a member of the armed forces on leave and they wrap a borrowed car around a tree?

posted by justread on May 18, 2014 at 09:16:03 am     #   4 people liked this

Me 2! Me 2!

Can one imagine how bad one feels when you have to turn down a drink to a guy that just got off work at the Jeep assembly line and has to go home to his nagging wife, three rug rats and a mother-in-law who wants to season his spaghetti dinner with rat poison?

posted by madjack on May 18, 2014 at 07:16:06 pm     #  

I'm curious, if the authorities deliberately sent someone under age to buy alcohol, couldn't that be considered entrapment?

posted by JeepMaker on May 18, 2014 at 11:15:40 pm     #  

That is how it works Jeepmaker. The underage members of the sting purchase, but do not imbibe.

posted by shamrock44 on May 19, 2014 at 12:39:46 am     #  

Madjack that's funny I actually do have a customer whose wife tried to poison him but he is over 21 so I serve him.

I just think members of the armed forces ought to be able to drink a
beer legally. I have had to turn them down as well as people with no ID at
all and of course the obvious drunks.

posted by SherryET on May 19, 2014 at 08:10:08 am     #   1 person liked this

I purchased beer as a minor (shocking) and was approached by agents in the parking lot when I was leaving. I did not get into any trouble but had to testify in front of a panel at a hearing in Columbus. They had this store under surveillance. The store tried to spin a story that I had a relationship with the female clerk and that is why I was not carded. Interesting experience. It was a carry-out over on Lewis Avenue between Sylvania/Laskey.

posted by Hoops on May 19, 2014 at 08:43:23 am     #  

That I know of.....drrinking alcohol is the only "age" related activity (freedom) that is restricted, by law, for adults (re: those over 18 years of age). This law is patently unfair and contrived. Honestly, I don't even know how this is constitutional. Either the age when an person is considered an adult should be raised to 21 (thus cant be drafted into military, vote, etc).....or the drinking age should be set at 18.

Also...if the logic to set it at 21 is that it saves lives.....then why not set it at 30? or 40? Or abolish alchol altogether? Yes....it is riskier at 18. But you can't have it both ways. We should not be making laws based on worst case, "what if" scenarios.

posted by BulldogBuckeye on May 19, 2014 at 11:32:53 am     #  

Actually, they are related. The drinking age was raised and the age for military service is low because of the way the brain works.

There is a minimum age for drinking and a maximum age for soldiering for a reason.

posted by justread on May 19, 2014 at 11:51:25 am     #  

Being elected president, getting senior citizen discounts and receiving medicare are all age related activities that are restricted by law.

posted by Mike21 on May 19, 2014 at 12:47:50 pm     #  

Being elected president, getting senior citizen discounts and receiving medicare are all age related activities that are restricted by law.

posted by Mike21 on May 19, 2014 at 12:50:29 pm     #  

BulldogBuckeye posted at 11:32:53 AM on May 19, 2014:

That I know of.....drrinking alcohol is the only "age" related activity (freedom) that is restricted, by law, for adults (re: those over 18 years of age). This law is patently unfair and contrived. Honestly, I don't even know how this is constitutional. Either the age when an person is considered an adult should be raised to 21 (thus cant be drafted into military, vote, etc).....or the drinking age should be set at 18.

Also...if the logic to set it at 21 is that it saves lives.....then why not set it at 30? or 40? Or abolish alchol altogether? Yes....it is riskier at 18. But you can't have it both ways. We should not be making laws based on worst case, "what if" scenarios.

It's constitutional because the feds have said states will not get their highway funds if the state doesn't raise the drinking age to 21. The Supreme Court has said this type of blackmail is legal. Its the same argument or logic that approved Obamacare - its not regulation, its a tax under the tax and spend authority of the constitution.

posted by MrsArcher on May 19, 2014 at 02:28:14 pm     #   1 person liked this

This may be off-topic, but we have threads going for underage alcohol sales and mexican restaurants so I will share a short story. Two actually.

I lived down south for awhile around the turn of the millennium. One evening, I was out to eat at a mexican place with my mom and younger brother. Being college age, but under 21, I was let's just say interested in partaking. I ordered a jumbo strawberry margarita and my waiter didn't bat an eye. No "may I see your ID". He just wrote down the order. My brother ordered a virgin margarita, and my mom got a water. When the waiter recapped our drink order, he pointed to me and asked "Margarita no Leecor?" I was like "with Liquor!" He said okay, then pointed to my ten-year-old brother and said "Margarita weeth Leecor?" At first I thought he was joking, but the guy was totally serious. My mom instantly said "no liquor!"

A flipside event happened a couple years later, the day I turned 21. I was working at an office (still down south), and took my lunch break at another mexican place. I decided to try out my new legal drinking powers and ordered a margarita. The waitress took a long look at my ID, and said "sorry, you are not old enough." I said "I certainly am. Today is my birthday - look at the date!" She then took it to the manager who proceeded to quiz me on bits of information on the ID, and then they still almost refused to serve me. Either their math skills needed work or they had a strong suspicion it was fake.

posted by mixman on May 19, 2014 at 06:38:32 pm     #  

I was once asked for two forms of ID at an Applebee's to get a drink. I had just turned 21 and the waitress and manager pretty much made feel bad for trying to order a beer. I guess that's what I got for going to Applebee's though.

posted by hunkytownsausage on May 19, 2014 at 08:15:44 pm     #  

Drinking laws in the USA are a bit stupid though. No education on drinking, no nothing. It's just don't drink because it's bad! (Except when your parents do it.) Then again, sex abstinece education has worked so well too.

posted by hunkytownsausage on May 19, 2014 at 08:20:15 pm     #  

hunkytownsausage posted at 08:20:15 PM on May 19, 2014:

Drinking laws in the USA are a bit stupid though. No education on drinking, no nothing. It's just don't drink because it's bad! (Except when your parents do it.) Then again, sex abstinece education has worked so well too.

I remember having education on drinking. From a variety of sources in both high school and college.

I'm 40, but I know some of those programs still exist. I don't think it's accur

posted by mom2 on May 19, 2014 at 09:57:56 pm     #  

*accurate to say that young people don't learn about responsible use of alcohol. Whether they choose to listen or not is a different story.

posted by mom2 on May 19, 2014 at 09:59:04 pm     #  

Think they talked about drinking and effects in health class when I was in school a long time ago,

posted by MIJeff on May 20, 2014 at 01:10:45 am     #  

Perrysburg police cited 4 more establishments for serving to underage people bringing the total to 15. One was a gas station, the others were restaurants. There are only 54 licenses in P-burg - almost 28% of them were in violation. Some of the servers already went to court and were fined $500, $73 in court costs and no jail time. The investigators are still reviewing the results of the sting to see if they will refer them to the Ohio Liquor Control Commission for fines, suspensions or revocation of the licenses. I'm curious as to what they are reviewing and why they haven't referred all of them - every violation was witnessed by a state official.

posted by Mike21 on May 22, 2014 at 09:37:43 am     #   1 person liked this

I'm curious as to what they are reviewing and why they haven't referred all of them - every violation was witnessed by a state official.

I didn't read any where that a 'state official' was in/on the premises of any of these establishments; a local police department used unnamed citizens under the age of 21.

If these are first offenses for these establishments, the OLCC is not going to revoke a license; it takes way more than that. So why refer something that is not going to produce any results? Wait until they have repeated violations before making a referral.

Heck, I don't even think the liquor store that sold the liquor to Hoeflinger's friend lost their license, they only went after the clerk (though I believe it is easier to not renew a liquor license than it is to revoke it, so they may just be waiting it out).

posted by MrsArcher on May 23, 2014 at 09:10:37 am     #  

Not only did Fox lose their state liquor license, they are being reviewed to possibly lose their beer and wine license. Revoking a license is the severest penalty (just like a $1000 fine and 6 months in jail is the max for a seller). All the establishments should at least be fined and repeat offending places should face at least a suspension of their license.

posted by Mike21 on May 23, 2014 at 09:20:46 am     #   1 person liked this