Toledo Talk

Where's Econcat88 been?

Never mind...found him

created by justareviewer on May 21, 2014 at 01:46:39 pm     Comments: 108

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Comments ... #

EC88,
Maybe people weren’t there at 1:30pm on a Sunday because of the Major Snow Storm we had the previous day that you mentioned? Just a guess, I know I didn’t get out very much this winter with all the bad weather we had.

posted by stooks on May 21, 2014 at 01:54:23 pm     #  

The casino took in about $11.5 million in January, about $15.3 million in February, about $17.8 million in March and about $16.1 million in April - pretty impressive numbers. econcat said the Elbo Room closed because of high water and utility bills and a bad economy when it actually closed because one of the owners died and the other was in hospice. It was sold very quickly and re-opened by the new owner last Saturday and was so busy they ran out of pizzas. Don't know why he has a bug up his ass about Toledo.

posted by Mike21 on May 21, 2014 at 02:11:23 pm     #   1 person liked this

As he told me to do in the video, from now on when I go into the casino like I did last weekend and it's freaking packed, I'll remember this video from a snow covered Sunday afternoon, showing how the top deck was empty, and heed his warning to not believe any hype that it's doing well.

"Absolutely no way that this casino is profitable right now." You're probably right. At 1:30 on a Sunday afternoon in what was clearly a day with horrible winter weather, they probably weren't pulling in a ton of cash.

"They probably corralled off the 4th and 5th floors, because they don't want people pulling into an empty parking lot. Casinos are very much about image." Or they're keeping them clear for snow removal, which is what literally every parking garage ever does in snow storms.

posted by Johio83 on May 21, 2014 at 02:43:48 pm     #   3 people liked this

LOL... whatever with that loser.

posted by toledolen_ on May 21, 2014 at 02:48:25 pm     #  

just came across this. crazy
http://iheartglasscity.com/2014/07/16/baumhower-unmasking-toledos-biggest-bully-toledoisbeautiful/

posted by upso on Jul 16, 2014 at 11:33:54 am     #  

hahaha what a terrible video.

Went Monday night with a buddy in from Tampa Bay. He loved the casino - back room for blackjack was so packed they had to open a fourth table at 11:30 p.m. on a Monday night (typically they only have 2 open with 1-2 players per table). Also had to open an additional craps table at 10:00 p.m.

posted by Xbuckeyex on Jul 16, 2014 at 11:50:53 am     #  

Really? This is just creepy. Baumhauer should get a job at the Blade. His obsession with econcat goes above and beyond that of the Blade's. What a weirdo.

posted by dell_diva on Jul 16, 2014 at 12:56:49 pm     #   7 people liked this

Wow talk about stalking creepy, thought next he was gonna name the color of the tile in his bathroom or what brand of paper towels he is using in the kitchen. As far as what Econcat has done, he has brought up a regular conversation regarding blight in Toledo, the cheerleaders for the city get uptight about it because it make them look bad, what I think it has done is show how those who are fine with the city AS IS, have buried their heads to the city's problems and get particularly upset when things like blight are shoved in their faces by others they thought had no power. Same with the Blah, they ripped econcat up and down but in the end, are doing exactly what he started, showing the ugliness, its not a reflection on the city if people fix the problem, shows almost adult behavior in identifying a problem and taking care of it.

posted by MIJeff on Jul 16, 2014 at 01:05:51 pm     #  

opinion...

leave econcat alone. he is incredibly one sided, yes, but we all have that right. the fact he is effective, even if we do disagree, is not a good reason to expose him either. he is producing his videos in his own time, with his own money and effort, using a public channel, youtube, that is open to all.

i was hoping this guy and his new site would be an attempt to produce videos that were balanced or positive about toledo and attempt to displace econcat's videos from the top.

frankly, i believe the "hildo" is much more destructive and irresponsible and yet printed in a commercial channel that is not equally open to critique and other opinions. i consequently avoid the city paper to the extent possible... just like the blade there are times you just cant avoid it

posted by enjoyeverysandwich on Jul 16, 2014 at 02:36:44 pm     #  

Are EconCat88's videos overly cynical and dreary? Sure.

Should he lose his anonymity because of this? No fucking way.

If people who are upset at EconCat88's videos want to do something useful, they can load and tag Toledo related videos of a more positive nature to YouTube to get some balance. They can also hyperlink some lower-ranked happier Toledo, Ohio related videos and drive them up higher in the search rankings.

But outing a person who chooses anonymity and is not committing illegal activity is little more that virtual terrorism.

posted by historymike on Jul 16, 2014 at 03:02:47 pm     #   7 people liked this

Hahaha, thank you for linking that video! For about the first 30 seconds or so, I wasn't feeling it at all. Then it just kept going, and... it's just looks like fun!

posted by Johio83 on Jul 16, 2014 at 03:51:01 pm     #  

Econcat is Toledo's #1 enemy? Not those in gangs, not the drug users, drug dealers, or anyone else that commits REAL crimes... but someone who chooses to make videos on how Toledo is a shit hole. This guy stalks and studies every detail of Econcat through his videos... and for what? To unmask someone that differs from your opinion? Baumhauer is lame. He talks about Econcat not offering solutions, yet, he clearly would rather spend his time trying to remove the anonymity of someone because clearly, that's a solution to Toledo's problems.

posted by odnation on Jul 16, 2014 at 04:28:09 pm     #   8 people liked this

From that Jul 16, 2014 iheartglasscity.com post :

What Toledo doesn’t need… is to be bullied; especially by one of our own residents.

EconCat88 is Toledo’s biggest bully and #1 enemy number.

The sum of $1, yes one dollar, will be paid to the person(s) who divulges any knowledge leading to the unmasking of Toledo’s Biggest Bully.

I would consider the July 16 iheartglasscity.com post to be a form of Internet bullying, or as historymike described it, "virtual terrorism."

Using bully tactics and a mob mentality to complain about a so-called bully may invalidate the point of the iheartglasscity.com website and any similar positive image ideas.

I can see the message:

Welcome to Toledo, Ohio where all approved viewpoints are welcomed. We enforce a knuckle-dragging form of progressive thinking.


More from that post:

The part that bothers me the most is he’s doing all this damage anonymously; he is cowardly hiding behind a screen name.

There is no honor in hiding behind a camera video after video, while trying to embarrass the city where you live. There is no courage in anything you, Mr. EconCat88 are doing.

He calls EconCat88 a coward, yet he writes:

I want every resident to know whom and to where to send their thanks, praise and adulation.

Does he really want "thanks, praise, and adulation" sent to EconCat88, or was the author being sarcastic? If the latter, then what are the author's real intentions? If the author is courageous like he claims, then the author should define what he really wants to happen to EconCat88 by outing him, instead of hiding behind coded language.


The author states:

The saddest part is I don’t believe EconCat88 is intelligent enough to understand the damage he is inflicting on Toledo’s future. I am surprised he has figured out how to upload videos on YouTube.

For many reasons, Toledo's population and business landscape began declining in the late 1960s or early 1970s, at least 30 years before YouTube was launched. Reversing this complex slide is much larger than YouTube.

In my opinion, videos either way will have no impact on Toledo's future because successful investors are not that simple-minded.

The author implies that EconCat88 is unintelligent, but the author makes an absurd point in a June 19, 2014 post

If I were a CEO of a business looking to relocate my company or to build a new office/warehouse in expansion, I would do some extensive researching, and I would likely start with a simple Google search.

Any CEO or business man who would Google the city of Toledo would find such attractive stories like “Most Miserable City”, “Worst Winter”, Gang Maps and John Stainbrook.

Let me ask you… if your only way to learn about the “Glass City” was by reading the Toledo Blade, would you move your business or start a new office here?

EconCat88 has focused some of his negative opinions on downtown Toledo, but Promedica and now Lathrop have announced intentions to move downtown.

I doubt that a successful CEO will base a decision on a simple Google search or by reading only the Toledo Blade. I'm guessing that the CEO is concerned about remaining successful, and when moving or starting a new business, a huge number of variables get considered that are probably more important than newspaper stories and social media content.

  • And besides, if Toledo's current situation is so fragile that YouTube videos could destroy its future, then it's already too late to improve the city.


More from the July 16 post:

Econcat88 offers no solution to any problem at any time during any video.

Apparently, the author provided a solution in his June 19 post:

To fix an issue as big as blight, a city must have extra capital. To gain extra monies, the city needs to increase it’s tax base. To increase the tax base a city must add jobs and new businesses. It is simple mathematics.

Add jobs and new businesses. Open a jar of businesses and add water. I'll check Amazon.com for a starter kit. It has to be that simple.

A relatively old term exists called "Detroitification." It basically means that bad political decisions and a struggling public school system have encouraged residents and businesses to leave the urban center for the surrounding communities.

I wonder if the author has researched the destructive actions, if any, by Toledo government over the past 50 years. Taxes, fees, assessments, over-regulating, bureaucracy, incompetence, malfeasance, misplaced priorities, cronyism, nepotism. None of that has occurred in Toledo government over the past 50 years, correct?

Since I moved into Toledo in 2001, I have not observed anything unusual and I assume the previous 30 to 40 years were also free of political shenanigans. I'm not from this region, so I have no idea why many Toledo residents and businesses left for the surrounding communities. I'm guessing they left for newer and bigger homes, buildings, and lots.


In my opinion, it appears that the iheartglasscity.com author opposes diversity, freedom of expression, and freedom of the press.

From the June 19 post:

Once again the Toledo Blade is doing a “Special Report” investigative series on another negative issue affecting Toledoans. In the past, the daily newspaper has showcased Toledo by focusing on our “Brain Drain” and gang problems, even evoked legal action to get a special gang map. This time the Toledo Blade wants to tell and show the world about our blight issue ...

For some, that's called journalism. I don't see any problem with it.

From the July 16 post:

Mr. EconCat88; if you wish to remain anonymous, I strongly suggest deleting your YouTube videos and page.

It looks like the author is using militant tactics to moderate legal content on a site that he does not own. Apparently, the author is intolerant to different viewpoints. Back to that saying:

"I want to force others to accept my brand of tolerance."

If we're going to be overly dramatic about how Blade stories and EconCat88 videos can harm Toledo's future, then in my opinion, the July 16, 2014 iheartglasscity.com post is equally destructive to Toledo. If that post is an example of the flip-side to EconCat88, then it's a bad sign for Toledo.

To me, it's a disturbing post, and hopefully, that thinking is not widely accepted by Toledoans, otherwise, it would definitely be a reason not to remain in or relocate to Toledo. A few wackos are to be expected and welcomed for comedic fodder. But I assume and hope that most Toledoans are not that intolerant and extreme.

Instead of attacking other messengers because you disagree with their viewpoints, you do like this author did and start a website and encourage others to create videos, showcasing the region in order to distribute your own message. The idea started fine, but swerving into some kind of digital vigilante project is demented.

Apparently, the goal now is to silence different viewpoints instead of promoting new views.

I like upso's Jul 16, 2014 comment :

I’m just trying to enjoy life, and have fun. I think Toledo is great. The midwest is great. These are values I’ve had for my entire life.

If other Toledoans share similar feelings, then it should be easy to promote those thoughts without resorting to "virtual terrorism."

posted by jr on Jul 17, 2014 at 09:25:57 am     #   7 people liked this

Baumhower strikes me a a typical liberal......they believe everyone is entitled to their opinion, as long as it mirrors their own.

posted by JeepMaker on Jul 17, 2014 at 09:31:56 am     #   1 person liked this

jr delivering common sense, as always...

posted by odnation on Jul 17, 2014 at 10:26:49 am     #  

JeepMaker posted at 09:31:56 AM on Jul 17, 2014:

Baumhower strikes me a a typical liberal......they believe everyone is entitled to their opinion, as long as it mirrors their own.

Hi, JeepMaker -

Thanks for making Jeeps!

"Typical Liberal" checking in here: you're entitled to whatever opinion you want. Period. I don't know any liberals that would disagree with that statement, and i'm actually pretty annoyed that you'd write off half of the country's ability to understand the idea of "opinion".

FACTS are a different story. If your facts are wrong, you're getting called out. That's the neat thing about them - they're verifiable and either correct or not.

But opinions? The more the merrier. In fact, that's part of the deal with liberals - we love arguing. We love disagreeing with opinions and trying to get under the skin of other people (ESPECIALLY liberals). We love finding ways to pull arguments and opinions apart and (of course!) change someone's mind about things. BUT! As a group (in general), I find that liberals are about as accepting of other opinions as you can get. We might express disagreement or OUR opinions about your opinions, but no one will say that you're not entitled to an opinion that's different.

posted by endcycle on Jul 17, 2014 at 11:08:07 am     #   11 people liked this

I'm not buying Baumhauer's claim he spent hours watching Econcat's videos. He claims Econcat offers no solutions to Toledo's problems, and that claim doesn't hold water. I've watched dozens of Econcat's videos, and he does offers solutions. He keeps hitting on Toledo's raiding of the CIP. He says the city should not regulate as much. On several videos he tells his viewers to get the city to go after tax deadbeats.

Fixing the infrastructure, cutting regulation to encourage business growth, and going after tax cheats are solutions. You may not agree with them, but if you don't agree with them then debate the issues. Don't take what seems to be Baumhauer's tack, which is if you don't agree with someone else's solutions you claim they don't really exist.

posted by tolbuck on Jul 17, 2014 at 11:10:21 am     #   6 people liked this

Instead of worrying about one Toledo resident, maybe the digital terrorists should research why 100,000 Toledoans have fled the city over the past 40 years. Important information could be learned that may prove useful for evolving Toledo's future.

One part of that July 16 iheartglasscity.com post was hilarious:

For those of you that are wondering “why my reward is only a buck…?” Because this guy isn’t fucking worth two.

Yet earlier in the post, the author wrote:

Yesterday, EconCat88, took 5 hours of my life as I was hooked on viewing ...

The federal minimum wage is $7.25 per hour. Ohio's minimum wage is $7.95 per hour.

posted by jr on Jul 17, 2014 at 01:00:30 pm     #  

There are working hours, and them there are Bumhours.

posted by justread on Jul 17, 2014 at 02:01:18 pm     #   5 people liked this

Just an FYI, Jeremy Baumhower posted his blog post in the Toledo group on FB if anyone is interested in offering their input:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/toledohio/permalink/749476128425022/

posted by upso on Jul 17, 2014 at 05:13:34 pm     #  

I'll echo the "commonsense again" sentiments about jr's post.

I agree about calling for the unmasking of EconCat88 is the real bullying.

And I passionately agree that we need to research why so many people left Toledo for the suburbs, like they did in so many cities across the country. But we disagree on what we think we'll find. It's hard for me to believe that all the cities that lost their population to the suburbs had bad government, and there wasn't similar corruption in cities that kept people in their urban core.

I think there's going to be lots of factors in play in all of the cities that underwent "Detroitification", but all these cities will share some factors - racist federal lending policies that created ghettoes, using municipal lines to avoid taxes, and shifting federal funding to pay for new transportation infrastructure in the suburbs.

posted by ifXthenWhyNot on Jul 17, 2014 at 05:53:25 pm     #  

I read Baumhauer's post and the reaction on here. I agree that his stance about unmasking Econcat may seem overzealous and maybe even aggressive. Internet users are entitled to their opinions and anonymity. However, I agree with Baumhauer's core sentiment: we don't need one of our own residents filling up Youtube with bad PR about the city. For at least the last decade, scores of people have been working hard not only to improve the amenities, business climate, and overall quality of life here, but also to change people's perceptions of Toledo - many of which slant heavily towards the negative. Econcat's videos ignore that, and only point out what's wrong. I find the videos to be mostly negative propaganda instead of solutions to the city's problems.

Hey, a mexican restaurant in Perrysburg closed... that must mean the whole region is experiencing economic collapse! Come on.

Normally, I would find someone going out on a limb, pointing out serious issues that need dealing with interesting, but after watching the videos, I am rubbed the wrong way by the constant exaggeration and misleading of facts in order to support a heavily-biased agenda. A lot of what Econcat says is inaccurate. He skews things to no end. He is basically a one-man bad PR campaign for the city. I would personally like him to shut his yap, but I wouldn't encourage anyone to do any 'virtual terrorism' in order to accomplish that.

posted by mixman on Jul 18, 2014 at 12:23:07 am     #   5 people liked this

I just saw this on fail page, anyone remember what this was about?

posted by MIJeff on Jul 18, 2014 at 01:50:20 am     #  

I remember like it was Monday.

http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2014/07/spilled_rocks_on_i-75_in_detro.html

posted by justread on Jul 18, 2014 at 06:37:17 am     #   1 person liked this

I guess I now understand why Baumhower is less of a mainstream media person than Troy Neff.

posted by justread on Jul 18, 2014 at 06:43:24 am     #   3 people liked this

Ok I just saw Toledo on that map and thought it was local, should of known better with the Mack Ave sign, didn't recognize the area from the picture either.

posted by MIJeff on Jul 18, 2014 at 11:47:45 am     #  

The article is downright creepy. Econcat88 drives a 2013 black jeep. I drive a 2014 jeep, similarities over !!

posted by Hoops on Jul 18, 2014 at 01:52:51 pm     #  

I've got a youtube account. Maybe its me?!

posted by upso on Jul 18, 2014 at 02:54:24 pm     #  

"However, I agree with Baumhauer's core sentiment: we don't need one of our own residents filling up Youtube with bad PR about the city."

I don't understand the disgust. I guess that a person needed to grow up in Toledo to understand why so many Toledoans get in a twist about YouTube videos and newspaper stories.

I assume that all Toledo events scheduled for this weekend have been canceled because "negative" videos and stories have caused Toledoans to curl up into a ball on the floor.

If you are talking about bad PR for Toledo, I would say 12 years of Carty Finkbeiner being mayor have done considerably more damage, and he was chosen by Toledoans.

The Little Book of Carty - produced by Blade employees.


I find the irony about this amusing.

On a website that attempts to portray Toledo in a positive light, the site owner threatens a fellow Toledoan who has a different viewpoint.

Mr. EconCat88; if you wish to remain anonymous, I strongly suggest deleting your YouTube videos and page.

How does the sleazy, intolerant behavior by Baumhower and his supporters portray Toledo in a positive manner and make the city attractive to outsiders?

What happened to promoting diversity, or is that a selective, sliding concept?

I thought Toledo was an art town. How come EconCat88's videos are not considered a form of editorial, storytelling art? Through the ages, art has offended some people.

Maybe Toledo's definition of art is also a selective, sliding concept.

In my opinion, attempting to silence one person sends a louder, more negative, and more destructive message about Toledo than dozens of EconCat88 videos.

"I MAKE totalitarianism cool
IN TOLEDO."

"You will do better in Toledo if you do what we say"

If the Toledo digital terrorists are successful with their EconCat88 mission, what next? An emboldened mob would hunger for another project.

I thought that EconCat88's videos were meant to show the decay of the city, but it's possible that the videos may accidentally expose the mental decay of some other Toledoans.

If EconCat88 posted his videos at Baumhower's website, then fine, Baumhower could moderate the content by his rules. But Baumhower is attempting to remove "acceptable" and legal content from a site that he cannot moderate. And some people agree with this behavior. They must believe that they get to define what's "acceptable."

That's certainly a different attitude but hardly a positive for Toledo.


From a technology position, how can one person dominate the Toledo search results at YouTube?

280,000 people live in Toledo, and apparently, EconCat88 is the only one who knows how take video and manage a social media account.

Or maybe it shows that most Toledoans don't give a damn about the videos.

From a Nov 29, 2013 Toledo Blade editorial

As for Toledo’s branding committee, maybe it should find the reclusive man behind “EconCat88” — and hire him.

posted by jr on Jul 18, 2014 at 03:55:51 pm     #   8 people liked this

Amen, Jr. EconCat88 doesn't speak for me as a Toledoan but, he is free to his opinion. His videos don't really impact my life or hurt Toledo as far as I can tell. The Blade was bad enough. Now this Baumhower guy is taking it to a whole other level of creepy stalkerisim and that's saying something. Give it a rest already.

posted by TrilbyGuy on Jul 18, 2014 at 06:18:59 pm     #   3 people liked this

Many of the comments in this thread seem to make this issue much more sinister and complicated than I perceive it to be.
I am quite simply curious why a resident of my city would choose to repeatedly and anonymously piss in my (and his) beer.
Knowing who he is might help me to understand behavior that seems contrary to standard human nature.

posted by MariaL on Jul 18, 2014 at 06:26:32 pm     #   2 people liked this

First off, this is a convo started from a May video...going on outdated. Second, Who is this Baumhower and what does he gain from this?

posted by dino on Jul 18, 2014 at 09:34:06 pm     #  

Not defending Baumhower at all, his vitriol makes him sound like a lunatic. And on that note, the whole saga with Anthony Wayne schools was of a similar tone, which, in my mind, discredits him, even though I may agree with certain sentiments and beliefs he may have. Not, the outing of an a anonymous poster, that's just not cool.

Here's the thing though-I understand him being upset. I'm upset by econcat's videos. Toledoans can be overly-sensitive to this negativity because we grew up surrounded by this negativity. The enthusiasm that this town has shown in recent years and the love fest for all things 419, feels so fragile and tentative, that these critiques hurt us so much more. We know what's wrong with this city, we've all learned to love it cracks and all. Things like econcat expose those wounds. We are all worried about what other people think about these videos, but if we didn't spend hours watching them and worrying about them, they wouldn't get quite as many views. All we can do is focus on the positive in this city and in our lives. Being a critic (both Baumhower and Econcat) is easy, exceptionally easy. What is hard is trying to figure out a way to make things better. That's been the renaissance in Toledo in the last 5 years, us trying to make it better. Perhaps, even, both of these guys are doing the same in their equally twisted ways, one by exposing things to the powers that be, one by trying to stop that guy.

It's probably worth stopping for a second to recognize that 10 years ago, we were all econcat, just maybe without the camera.

posted by ahmahler on Jul 18, 2014 at 09:53:33 pm     #   1 person liked this

"10 years ago, we were all econcat"

Woah. That is so meta. His name... is Robert Paulson. His name is Robert Paulson. His name is Robert Paulson!

posted by Johio83 on Jul 18, 2014 at 11:05:47 pm     #   1 person liked this

"one by trying to stop that guy."

He has a right to disagree with that guy.

He doesn't have the right or the authority to "stop" him.

Although his threats are intended to do just that. There's your bully. And unfortunately, while Econcat's material is presented as one guy's vision and voice, Baumhower's deeply disturbing manifesto is in many ways presented as the popular voice. It's not.

posted by justread on Jul 19, 2014 at 06:50:15 am     #   5 people liked this

He has a right to disagree with that guy.

He doesn't have the right or the authority to "stop" him.

Completely agree

posted by ahmahler on Jul 19, 2014 at 07:07:44 am     #  

posted by fred on Jul 19, 2014 at 11:56:05 am     #  

posted by fred on Jul 19, 2014 at 11:57:08 am     #   9 people liked this

I appreciate the amount of time Fred took photoshopping this picture. Coming from a radio legend such as himself, it means the world to me.

The difference between econcat88 and Fred is one has the courage to have his name associated with the nonstop barrage of criticism. As much as I have different opinions of Fred's, he has never once hid who he was.

Showing the world Toledo's ugly, while offering zero solutions except voting down every and all levies is all econcat88 does. He is monopolizing the search returns on one of the world's most visited websites and at the expense of the city where hundreds of thousands live.

I know he tried his best in the political arena and lost. He is angry. A lot of Toledoans are angry. Angry doesn't fix problems, solutions do.

Youtube is a public medium with public entities. It is very similar to a radio station with a host who chooses to use a fake name. The Toledo Blade has a long history of giving real names while discussing radio personalities. The hosts are using fake names because they were wanting to remain private. The Blade does not ask permission, they simply do it.

EconCat88 has voluntarily entered the world of entertainment with his 140 plus videos on Toledo. There is no difference between himself and a host of an angry talk station.

His message may be political in nature, but his forum is entertainment. If he wanted to keep his videos private and not public, youtube has an option.

Just as the Toledo Blade chooses to name radio personalities by their legal name, I plan on outing EconCat88 by his.

posted by Baumhower on Jul 19, 2014 at 12:54:19 pm     #  

He is monopolizing the search returns on one of the world's most visited websites and at the expense of the city where hundreds of thousands live.

And if you want, you can monopolize the same search terms with your content. Econcat88 maybe be putting the videos on YouTube (Which is his choice), but the views of other people drive it. If you want to cancel out his noise, simply trump him by making better content (This is called Search Engine Optimization btw). But to try and out him is bullying. You can call it what you want, but instead of countering his videos and reducing his "YouTube dominance", you go the route of outing him, and I believe that is not the right thing to do because that silences the discussion his videos bring: good, bad, or indifferent.

posted by waughkev on Jul 19, 2014 at 01:09:50 pm     #   1 person liked this

Agreed.. http://iheartglasscity.com/2014/06/19/baumhower-toledoisbeautiful-the-challenge/

posted by Baumhower on Jul 19, 2014 at 01:13:39 pm     #  

you say agreed, yet you continue the witch hunt...

posted by upso on Jul 19, 2014 at 03:43:13 pm     #   8 people liked this

So, has he been outed?

posted by bucknut on Jul 19, 2014 at 03:55:25 pm     #  

Just as a point of correction, the drawing is not photoshopped, but an original illustration. Apparently the hotfoot worked. I'm wondering why Jeremy believes it takes courage to use one's real name on the internet? He certainly didn't use to when posting on a local radio buzzboard, why the change of heart? Econcat was in studio with me and I certainly didn't feel the need to out him. He at least lives in Toledo. If you really heart the city why not move you and kids inside the city limits?

posted by fred on Jul 19, 2014 at 04:20:57 pm     #   11 people liked this

yikes

posted by nits on Jul 19, 2014 at 04:27:41 pm     #  

Burn

posted by Nolan_Rosenkrans on Jul 19, 2014 at 05:07:52 pm     #   3 people liked this

Lol about another toledo homer whos likely well-planted deeply into toledo's suburbs crying about my videos being the cause of toledo's problem.

Jr thank you for allowing me to post here, but this thread belongs in the political forum. Also if or when my personal information is posted I am asking that it be deleted.

The people at TB along with anybody that wanted to know my identity knew a while ago, and I do not deny I am ec88 when ive been asked.

There is a boarded up house, empty classroom, pothole, and strip of uncut grass, with people's written on them who claim to love toledo but choose to live elsewhere.

posted by EconCat88 on Jul 19, 2014 at 05:50:14 pm     #   8 people liked this

If applicable, links to laws related to Internet stalking and personal harassment laws would be greatly appreciated if posted here as well.

Fyi the videos will remain

posted by EconCat88 on Jul 19, 2014 at 05:54:15 pm     #   6 people liked this

posted by Ace_Face on Jul 19, 2014 at 09:24:08 pm     #   4 people liked this

In an ironic turn of events-the SEO king of Toledo (for Toledo, for that matter), is asking for help googling.

Here ya go Mr. Cat-I think you'll find several links to your liking.

https://www.google.com/search?q=internet+stalking+laws&rlz=1C9BKJA_enUS590US590&oq=internet+stalking+laws&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l3&sourceid=chrome-mobile&espv=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en-US

After that, you may want to look up video editing software, a little flourish and brevity can go a long way.

posted by ahmahler on Jul 19, 2014 at 10:45:40 pm     #  

You all should be chill-laxing on Adams Street.

Fuckin' A.

posted by jr on Jul 19, 2014 at 10:58:25 pm     #   3 people liked this

Agreed.

posted by Nolan_Rosenkrans on Jul 19, 2014 at 11:40:48 pm     #  

I don't care for econcat88's videos. They're just a lot of negativity. Putting the focus on the symptoms contributes nothing to developing a solution.

But to go out of your way to attack or hurt the person is just sad.

Learn to accept that you won't agree with everything you see or hear. Find some inner peace.

posted by nick44 on Jul 19, 2014 at 11:45:44 pm     #  

Why don't you shut the fuck up, move out of Sylvania and live in a house on Pearl, Oakwood, Putnam or Milburn? Let me guess, those areas are too dark for you? Is Toledo not #beautiful enough there? What's the matter Jeremy, you don't want to live in a house surrounded by boarded up homes, no street lights, shitty ass roads and a pathetic ass school system that for the longest time had the most ridiculous union contract? Is Toledo not #beautiful enough in said neighborhoods because of the on-going street gang violence and distribution of illegal narcotics? Better yet... why don't you just get your plot of land ready in the Marina district so that when Larry Dillon convinces the dumb fucks at One Government Center to give him money again, you can be an 0-5'er and live the luxurious of overlooking the mighty Maumee.

You think you're a vigilante trying to oust EC88, but in essence, you're the worse homer... you're cheering on Toledo from the stands in Sylvania.

posted by odnation on Jul 20, 2014 at 02:10:50 am     #   7 people liked this

Anyone defending Econcat has no shame. The guy goes out of his way to trash the city we know and (most of us) love, and people jump to his defense. Econcat is painting Toledo as a crap-hole, backwoods, derelict, mismanaged place that no one should want to call home when most people who live here know otherwise. The guy is a POS.

The negative Youtube propaganda needs to stop. If one person decides not to move here because of his crap that is one too many. Love it or leave it. Econcat is a bully. He is a traitor and should go find someplace else to live. Get the F out of dodge if you hate Toledo so much. Quit spinning a negative yarn for all of America to see when hundreds of people have given thousands of thankless hours trying to promote the opposite. Your videos are highly biased, you skew things to support your baseless claims, and from watching them I believe you would be happier if Toledo completely fails. You get off on people's misery and things failing. You are the opposite of what we are going for in this progressive day and age. I hope that Baumhower does out you and you get whatever you deserve. Karma is a bitch. Go find another city to piss on.

posted by mixman on Jul 20, 2014 at 04:03:05 am     #   2 people liked this

@jr:

"What happened to promoting diversity, or is that a selective, sliding concept?"

It always has been. The diversity card is played very much like the race card - whenever the one playing it believes it is to their benefit and/or advantage. That person doesn't give a rat's rear end about those they pretend to be "defending".

posted by Foodie on Jul 20, 2014 at 06:18:48 am     #  

@mixman:

"Love it or leave it"

"You are the opposite of what we are going for in this progressive day and age."

Love it or leave it is a progressive principal/belief? Sounds much more 1950'ish to me. Because Econcat points out much that is indeed true but it isn't to your liking - he should "Get the F out of dodge"?

And, just so we understand your belief system and using the logic you put forth, anyone here who might post something negative about Toledo or this region would also have your blessing if Baumhower decides to make it his (pathetic) mission in life to out them too?

posted by Foodie on Jul 20, 2014 at 06:26:19 am     #   6 people liked this

mixman posted at 04:03:05 AM on Jul 20, 2014:

Anyone defending Econcat has no shame. The guy goes out of his way to trash the city we know and (most of us) love, and people jump to his defense. Econcat is painting Toledo as a crap-hole, backwoods, derelict, mismanaged place that no one should want to call home when most people who live here know otherwise. The guy is a POS.

The negative Youtube propaganda needs to stop. If one person decides not to move here because of his crap that is one too many. Love it or leave it. Econcat is a bully. He is a traitor and should go find someplace else to live. Get the F out of dodge if you hate Toledo so much. Quit spinning a negative yarn for all of America to see when hundreds of people have given thousands of thankless hours trying to promote the opposite. Your videos are highly biased, you skew things to support your baseless claims, and from watching them I believe you would be happier if Toledo completely fails. You get off on people's misery and things failing. You are the opposite of what we are going for in this progressive day and age. I hope that Baumhower does out you and you get whatever you deserve. Karma is a bitch. Go find another city to piss on.

This is scarier and more destructive than the negative videos. I think that a lot of alcohol must have been behind it. Nobody is that ignorant. (And I don't appreciate the videos, by the way.)

But I don't appreciate all sorts of things that I can't simply destroy, silence, kill, or stop.

posted by justread on Jul 20, 2014 at 07:33:48 am     #   6 people liked this

I've stayed on the sidelines on this one, trying to decide how I really feel. Took me a while, as I'm a Toledo fan, but...

  • I am glad I live in a country where EconCat88 has the right to speak his piece. I don't have to agree with someone to respect their right to free speech.
  • I would have more respect for EconCat88 if he wasn't hiding behind the anonymity of the internet. It's too easy to be nasty when there's no accountability.
  • If he really hates Toledo so much, why doesn't he leave? Seriously. Reminds me of an old friend of mine who complained about her husband 24/7, finally left him, then went BACK to him because without him to complain about, she had no purpose in life.
  • Yeah. I really DO want to know who EconCat88 is. Not that I personally care, but it goes back to the accountability thing. If you really believe in something, say it loud and proud WITHOUT a paper bag over your head.
  • When someone is being as negative, aggressive and abrasive as EconCat88 is, I don't understand why someone trying to find out who that person is would be considered bullying.

posted by gamegrrl on Jul 20, 2014 at 09:43:54 am     #   3 people liked this

So you're real name is gamegrrl then? Soundtrek last night was awesome by the way. Steve Steel on the accordian for Roq? the Casbah was a surprise, and the drag show at Bretz was a pretty good close for the night. Food trucks were on hand and even ran into Mike Bell enjoying the lobster mac n cheese. You missed a great party if you weren't there. And having said that I still like econcat88 videos. The way to combat them is to shop and spend in the city.

posted by fred on Jul 20, 2014 at 10:11:35 am     #  

So when someone is being annonymously positive about Toledo, it's okay? Why the double standard?

posted by bucknut on Jul 20, 2014 at 10:17:31 am     #   1 person liked this

Where's the line? Who decides?

Say you are an upstanding person in the community and you have done no crime. But you post something unpopular on the internet and your entire life is changed by the segment of people opposed to your viewpoint? Your address is posted and negative energy is directed toward you in all its random and often escalated forms? YOU become the story. Really? How many You Tube videos equals a life? I believe I see a chilling effect on freedom of expression there.
All other principles about "accountability" aside, and whether or not I agree with the issue at hand. Cyber witch hunts are some evil ju-ju.

posted by justread on Jul 20, 2014 at 10:19:32 am     #   5 people liked this

Justread: Thanks for engaging with me respectfully :-)

"Who decides" is a good question. To me, the person who decides is each and every one of us who posts online. We make that decision for ourselves every time we post anything. The moment we put our fingers to the keyboard, we're making that decision. The more volatile the posted item is, the more likely it is that people will want to link the poster's pseudonym to their real name.

So when someone repeatedly posts volatile content, they must KNOW that people will want to know who they are. They're inviting scrutiny. Consciously.

I think the thing is that people expect that they have anonymity online, when what they really have is pseudonymity. Anonymity requires unlinkability. EconCat88 gives up way too much of his 'true self' in terms of info and clues to ever expect that he's unlinkable.

Fred, don't be silly. My REAL name is starbaby1981. Seriously though, I really don't make a secret of who I am. Most people here don't really care who I am, probably because I don't tend to post controversial stuff that gets people's panties in a wad.

But this DOES bring up a good point: I have no expectation of anonymity. Why? Because I know that gamegrrl is not unlinkable. If I'd wanted to be as anonymous as possible (which I most certainly would if I were going to post the stuff that EconCat88 does) I would have gone to much greater lengths to cloak than EconCat88 has, both in his postings and in the content of his videos. Even the fact that he provides his own narration is a link back to his real name.

As for "outing" people. I'm not in favor of public outing, in most cases. Someone who posts here infrequently was nasty enough to me a while back that I really wanted to know who it was. In less than five minutes, I not only had a photo, I was also saddened to discover that it was a person I'd done business with for decades. Thousands and thousands of dollars of business. I was crushed and very, very disappointed. For the record, he had NO idea who I was here on TT. My disappointment came from his level of nasty and the knowledge that he was capable of that, combined with finding out how he truly felt about some things.

Did I "out" him here? Nope. While, on some level, there would have been a momentary rush of endorphins as I gave him some public payback, this was really between him and me. So I let him know who I was and that I would no longer be doing business with him. I didn't have to tell him why. He knew.

This guy felt fearless in his postings. Fearless because he thought he was anonymous. He wasn't. He was so linked that he might as well have been using his real name. But until he crossed the line with someone (me), it was a non-issue because, frankly, no one cared.

But when you set out to make a huge, unpopular statement about something (e.g. how horrible Toledo is), you MUST know in advance that you will be pissing off a bunch of people, and that at least some of those people will want to strike back or, at least, know your true name. If you decide to go ahead and make that statement and NOT do it with as much anonymity as you can muster, then I really feel you deserve to be unmasked. To me, THAT is the line, and THAT is who decides. The poster.

posted by gamegrrl on Jul 20, 2014 at 11:17:49 am     #   2 people liked this

The guy is a POS

Right, he's a piece of shit, but I guess those that commit REAL crimes are just angels.

If one person decides not to move here because of his crap that is one too many.

Yes because Toledo is such an attractive city to move to. I mean the jobs are plentiful, TPS is awesome, the roads are in tip-top shape, and the crime right is non-existent!

Holy fuck you're an idiot. For a city that has less than 300,000 people, Toledo has a higher violent crime rate than Philly, Newark, Boston and even New Orleans. In fact, Toledo is in the top 25 nationwide in all crimes. We're talking murder, rape, robbery, aggravated assault and burglaries. But please humor us and let everyone know that EC88's videos are so negative in nature that he shooing away potential residents. So please tell me, how is he a traitor? If he's a traitor, what are you going to label the criminals - you know, the REAL reason why Toledo is a fucking dump.

Get the F out of dodge if you hate Toledo so much

Not once has he ever stated that he hates Toledo.

Your videos are highly biased, you skew things to support your baseless claims

So reckless spending on stupid shit is baseless? Ridiculous union contracts is baseless? Taking money out of the CIP fund (roads) to fund other stupid shit is baseless?

I hope that Baumhower does out you and you get whatever you deserve. Karma is a bitch. Go find another city to piss on.

Yup - let's target a Toledo resident who points out the cities flaws and wish negative karma on him, but let's not mention a peep about Toledo's true trash. We now live in a world where someone posting anonymously on YouTube gets more hate than actual criminals. Don't worry everyone, now we have a scapegoat for all this blight in Toledo - it's all your fault EC88 with your negative Nelly videos.

posted by odnation on Jul 20, 2014 at 11:55:27 am     #   7 people liked this

"at least some of those people will want to strike back"

Perhaps that is the very reason not to engage in stalking and revealing, as well. Some people are nuts.

posted by justread on Jul 20, 2014 at 12:09:36 pm     #   1 person liked this

But if a person isn't willing to accept the risk of an act or acts, then why move forward?

For the record, I agree with much of what EconCat88 says. What bothers me so much is the complete absence of balance. Can he find NOTHING good to say about Toledo? If not, then I have to echo the sentiments of others who have said he should move somewhere else.

I guess that makes me, in EconCat-speak, a 'homie'. I've been called worse.

posted by gamegrrl on Jul 20, 2014 at 12:52:25 pm     #   1 person liked this

Attention whores will do anything to garner attention - to them there is no such thing as bad publicity.

posted by Mike21 on Jul 20, 2014 at 01:07:27 pm     #   2 people liked this

What I don't get is, in one video, Econcat88 complains about blight. Then, in another video about the Clarion Hotel which is a horrible blight, he complains that the city is spending money to remove blight.

I don't entirely disagree with what he's doing. However, he strikes me as a bitter person who complains mindlessly. Too bad somebody more intelligent isn't doing what he's doing.

posted by MemyselfandI on Jul 20, 2014 at 06:46:38 pm     #   4 people liked this

He's complaining that the city got stuck dealing with it - much like the Marina district. He's saying that the city (tax payers) should not have to foot the bill to take care of the hotel. Listen to the message, not the messenger

posted by odnation on Jul 20, 2014 at 08:04:37 pm     #  

_For a city that has less than 300,000 people, Toledo has a higher violent crime rate than Philly, Newark, Boston and even New Orleans. In fact, Toledo is in the top 25 nationwide in all crimes. We're talking murder, rape, robbery, aggravated assault and burglaries. _

Can we get a cite to some of those statistics? Not saying Toledo is Pleasantville, but it isn't Flint, MI, either.

posted by Ace_Face on Jul 20, 2014 at 09:46:36 pm     #   3 people liked this

Agreed. Those statistics seem absurd.

posted by upso on Jul 21, 2014 at 12:16:36 am     #   1 person liked this

The statistics are based per 100,000 people. They're not at all absurd. Give me some time to dig up the stats from the FBIs website.

Regardless, there's very little attraction to the city and it's things like a high crime rate that will deter potential residents, not EC88s videos.

posted by odnation on Jul 21, 2014 at 01:17:09 am     #  

People always want to kill the messenger, nothing new to see here. There are 3 types of people, the optimist which regardless of what is happening or despite facts can only see the good everywhere, the pessimist, who only see the bad things or who can never be happy with what they have for fear of losing it, and the realist, who sees what is good and bad and takes what he can when its available and complains about things he doesn't like. I prefer to be a realist, sure I can find bad things in Toledo, I an find good things in Toledo, both will always be there.

posted by MIJeff on Jul 21, 2014 at 01:54:05 am     #   1 person liked this

Foodie posted at 06:26:19 AM on Jul 20, 2014:

@mixman:

"Love it or leave it"

"You are the opposite of what we are going for in this progressive day and age."

Love it or leave it is a progressive principal/belief? Sounds much more 1950'ish to me. Because Econcat points out much that is indeed true but it isn't to your liking - he should "Get the F out of dodge"?

And, just so we understand your belief system and using the logic you put forth, anyone here who might post something negative about Toledo or this region would also have your blessing if Baumhower decides to make it his (pathetic) mission in life to out them too?

@ Foodie:

I may have used a dated, chiched phrase, but I believe it still applies - at least to someone who makes a mission of pointing out problems while offering few solutions. I like it here. I like it a lot. And I'd prefer not to live in the same town with a negative blowhard of such magnitude.

People are free to post what they want about Toledo. However, when misguided, overstated pessimistic drivel dominates a globally popular outlet like Youtube, maybe it's time to take a stand? Also, to be clear, I'm not endorsing any kind of witch hunt. I believe Econcat has breached the lines of good taste and factual information so he should stand tall and publicly defend his sizable body of 'Toledo sucks' propaganda.

posted by mixman on Jul 21, 2014 at 12:09:49 pm     #  

*cliched

posted by mixman on Jul 21, 2014 at 12:10:24 pm     #  

@ justread:

"This is scarier and more destructive than the negative videos. I think that a lot of alcohol must have been behind it. Nobody is that ignorant. (And I don't appreciate the videos, by the way.)

But I don't appreciate all sorts of things that I can't simply destroy, silence, kill, or stop."

Whatever. People here are rallying around the free speech angle, which - do not get me wrong - I fully endorse, while sadly missing the big picture. The guy is an a-hole, either intentionally or not. He's doing damage on not just a national but global level. People who have never visited or even heard of Toledo may easily think it sucks because of these videos. They are counterproductive to everyone who is working to make it better. Positive change usually starts with attitude, and this guy's is plain lousy.

posted by mixman on Jul 21, 2014 at 12:19:31 pm     #   3 people liked this

@ odnation:

"Holy fuck you're an idiot."

Whoa! lol Thanks for that. Now, if needed, I can rationalize stooping to your level. Since you're obviously on the Econcat side, I guess there's no point in arguing Toledo's positive attributes. I'm sure there are some people on this board who would list a few, if asked.

The guy doesn't have to say he hates Toledo. The videos speak for themselves.

The videos are incredibly biased and there is a ton of misinformation in them. Some have been picked apart in other threads, and there was a consensus that he uses a lot of exaggeration to support his claims. Hell, look at the 'casino parking garage is empty, they must be doing terrible' video at the start of this thread. There is as much investigative reporting in that as the guy who drives by downtown businesses at 10pm on a Tuesday and decides how well they're doing by looking in windows.

I agree there are worse people out there - the muggers, robbers, murderers, etc. Are they broadcasting their brand of lowlifedom to the world? Again, I come back to the idea of changing people's attitudes.

posted by mixman on Jul 21, 2014 at 12:35:33 pm     #   1 person liked this

I think people are overstating the impact of one "a-hole's" videos on the world's perspective. His negative videos are less dangerous than the "I want him gone" "get the f out of town" "he should get what he deserves" sentiments.
It's one guy. What if everyone in the world hasn't even seen them? And what if an alternate viewpoint is posted below every video? Oh, wait.

The people who are compelled to harm this guy through some kind of self-righteous revenge cyber stalking and outing are the scariest. Much more concerning than a negative guy and his you tube channel.

I'd rather have a town full of negative downers than a town full of self-righteous stalkers who think that they are the avenging conscience of the rest of us.

posted by justread on Jul 21, 2014 at 01:26:59 pm     #   11 people liked this

@mixman:

"He's doing damage on not just a national but global level. People who have never visited or even heard of Toledo may easily think it sucks because of these videos. They are counterproductive to everyone who is working to make it better."

IMHO, his videos and opinions aren't doing anywhere near the amount of damage the voters of this city continue to do every election cycle.

As I have stated so many times here: with all of our attributes, this area should be a boom town that rivals most any major metropolitan area. But why isn't it?

Look no further than the empty suits (with matching empty heads) the electorate of this area continues to put in office.

posted by Foodie on Jul 21, 2014 at 02:08:59 pm     #  

I suggest to all of you hating on Ecat go take your own videos and post them on youtube showing how great the city is. I also like an old cliche', "put up or shut up".

posted by MIJeff on Jul 21, 2014 at 03:55:14 pm     #   2 people liked this

Agreed

posted by upso on Jul 21, 2014 at 04:20:09 pm     #  

I think most people take issue with Econcat when his productions are laced with gross misrepresentations of fact. I don't care to know who he is, I figured his head might have exploded after the one two punch of Promedica andLathrop

I can't recall but doesn't libel not apply to business, must apply to a person?

li·bel
ˈlībəl/
noun
noun: libel; plural noun: libels

1.
Law
a published false statement that is damaging to a person's reputation; a written defamation.
synonyms: defamation, defamation of character, character assassination, calumny, misrepresentation, scandalmongering;

http://www.ibls.com/internet_law_news_portal_view.aspx?s=latestnews&id=1874

posted by MrGlass419 on Jul 21, 2014 at 04:59:28 pm     #   1 person liked this

Ace_Face posted at 09:46:36 PM on Jul 20, 2014:

_For a city that has less than 300,000 people, Toledo has a higher violent crime rate than Philly, Newark, Boston and even New Orleans. In fact, Toledo is in the top 25 nationwide in all crimes. We're talking murder, rape, robbery, aggravated assault and burglaries. _

Can we get a cite to some of those statistics? Not saying Toledo is Pleasantville, but it isn't Flint, MI, either.

The quick and dirty is this wikipedia table...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_cities_by_crime_rate#Crime_rates_per_100.2C000_people_.282012.29

The source of that table is from the FBI website, table 6

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/crime-in-the-u.s.-2012/violent-crime/violent-crime

posted by odnation on Jul 21, 2014 at 06:22:08 pm     #  

I figured his head might have exploded after the one two punch of Promedica and Lathrop

It's definitely great to have Promedica and Lathrop move downtown, but does it make up for the departure of O-I and Xerox? In my opinion, no, but I don't have the numbers to prove one way or another.

posted by odnation on Jul 21, 2014 at 06:23:26 pm     #  

odnation posted at 06:23:26 PM on Jul 21, 2014:
I figured his head might have exploded after the one two punch of Promedica and Lathrop

It's definitely great to have Promedica and Lathrop move downtown, but does it make up for the departure of O-I and Xerox? In my opinion, no, but I don't have the numbers to prove one way or another.

I bet you're fun to be around.

posted by slowsol on Jul 21, 2014 at 06:48:46 pm     #   1 person liked this

odnation=econcat88?

posted by MariaL on Jul 21, 2014 at 07:07:51 pm     #   1 person liked this

No

posted by odnation on Jul 21, 2014 at 07:26:17 pm     #  

odnation posted at 06:23:26 PM on Jul 21, 2014:
I figured his head might have exploded after the one two punch of Promedica and Lathrop

It's definitely great to have Promedica and Lathrop move downtown, but does it make up for the departure of O-I and Xerox? In my opinion, no, but I don't have the numbers to prove one way or another.

"Make up for" is a tough nut.

Here are the numbers:
Published move from Toledo to Perrysburg, O-I= 340 FTE at the time
Published for Xerox (really?) =95 at the time

Published for ProMedica move= approximately 700 administrative to as many as 800, depending on who's talking
Published for Lathrop=50

So, 435 (including cough cough Xerox) last decade vs. at least 750 in today's jobs, today.

posted by justread on Jul 21, 2014 at 07:30:57 pm     #   3 people liked this

Thanks for the numbers, didn't know what Promedica would be bringing.

What do you mean cough cough Xerox? 801 Washington is empty because of it.

posted by odnation on Jul 21, 2014 at 08:57:48 pm     #  

Yes, but it's a great building in a great location. It will get redeveloped.

posted by upso on Jul 21, 2014 at 09:25:36 pm     #  

Xerox location was purchased by Chinese investors.

posted by MrGlass419 on Jul 21, 2014 at 09:59:39 pm     #  

801 Washington is definitely a great location; I hope a viable business moves into that building rather than more residential space.

posted by odnation on Jul 21, 2014 at 10:49:26 pm     #  

Would love to see Toledo scale come back home too.

posted by MIJeff on Jul 21, 2014 at 10:52:47 pm     #  

If I recall correctly, the so-called "conservative" Toledo Free Press used to give this guy a weekly forum. So much for the idea of the TFP being some kind of conservative/libertarian alternative to the Blade. Back then, I used to refer to him as "Scruffy the fascist," and by that I mean "lefto-fascist."

This guy is a sick, demented piece of fascist shit.-

posted by Bandito on Jul 22, 2014 at 12:32:46 am     #   2 people liked this

Just eyeballing EconCat88's videos on youtube...

...aside from being a one note symphony, they seem to average about 2 - 3,000 views. One outlier has 37,000 views, another 19,000...but most seem to hover between 1,500 - 2,500 views. A number of the videos are in the hundreds of views, not thousands. We have no idea how many unique viewers there are, only an aggregate. Some video might have 600 views, but only a fraction of viewers.

All this rancor over videos that very few watch, in Toledo or out? These numbers have probably been bumped a bit since the Blade's (and apparently others') "outing" expedition.

If I was EconCat88, I'd be thanking each and every hater, the Blade, whomever this Baumhower guy is, and others for raising my profile. If you guys keep the momentum going, maybe he can sell some sponsorships and make some cash off his little hobby.

If you don't like it, post your own videos. It's not like this site has any lack of ideas. Go film the OWE festival, the fair, GA festival, other summer events, the holiday parade, great things that happen, etc. and put it up on youtube.

Those complaining that EconCat88 has "no solutions" are braying in the wind. It's not his job to provide solutions or "balance." He has a point of view, and actually a very small footprint (so far). The idea that someone important would base his decision on business location on an unknown dude with a GoPro posting videos is ridiculous (and that is being kind).

But if you're bothered, here's the solution: compete with a different point of view on the same media platform (a free and open site to everyone). There is no gatekeeper. There is no cost. All it takes is a camera, the ability to speak (to narrate your video), and a little time.

Yeah, didn't think so. Keep bitching about it on the Internet...

posted by oldhometown on Jul 22, 2014 at 01:20:28 am     #   8 people liked this

@ justread:

"The people who are compelled to harm this guy through some kind of self-righteous revenge cyber stalking and outing are the scariest. Much more concerning than a negative guy and his you tube channel.

I'd rather have a town full of negative downers than a town full of self-righteous stalkers who think that they are the avenging conscience of the rest of us."

It's easy to downplay the significance when the toll has yet to be seen. What if the videos hold the top rankings for the next 5, 10 years? Continue taking the high road and being spineless while people who actually care about this town stand up against outdated perceptions and unhelpful propaganda. Some of the stuff this guy says reminds me of what I heard people saying 20 years ago - back when bashing Toledo seemed to be a trend of the day. It's not so cool these days.

And who's talking about harming anyone? You're the first person to suggest that. The guy wants to hide behind the anonymity of Youtube, that's his deal. I just think since he's already a semi-internet celebrity, why not elevate his campaign to the next level? He could do tv interviews, even run for public office. Maybe then his supporters can decide if he's legitmate or not.

posted by mixman on Jul 22, 2014 at 03:27:22 am     #   1 person liked this

@ oldhometown:

"Those complaining that EconCat88 has "no solutions" are braying in the wind. It's not his job to provide solutions or "balance." He has a point of view, and actually a very small footprint (so far). The idea that someone important would base his decision on business location on an unknown dude with a GoPro posting videos is ridiculous (and that is being kind)."

I was talking about prospective residents. The videos aren't exactly a friendly calling card.

"But if you're bothered, here's the solution: compete with a different point of view on the same media platform (a free and open site to everyone). There is no gatekeeper. There is no cost. All it takes is a camera, the ability to speak (to narrate your video), and a little time."

That's easy to say. Who besides an amateur filmmaker is going to spend a bunch of hours a week doing that? And unlike this guy's random scenes and rambling drivel, they would probably need to compose a cohesive script and shot sequence. That takes actual thought. I'm guessing there are already promotional videos for stuff like the Mud Hens, Art Museum, Crosby Gardens, Zoo, etc. Why aren't these sharing the top results?

posted by mixman on Jul 22, 2014 at 03:30:49 am     #   1 person liked this

mixman posted at 03:30:49 AM on Jul 22, 2014:

@ oldhometown:

"Those complaining that EconCat88 has "no solutions" are braying in the wind. It's not his job to provide solutions or "balance." He has a point of view, and actually a very small footprint (so far). The idea that someone important would base his decision on business location on an unknown dude with a GoPro posting videos is ridiculous (and that is being kind)."

I was talking about prospective residents. The videos aren't exactly a friendly calling card.

"But if you're bothered, here's the solution: compete with a different point of view on the same media platform (a free and open site to everyone). There is no gatekeeper. There is no cost. All it takes is a camera, the ability to speak (to narrate your video), and a little time."

That's easy to say. Who besides an amateur filmmaker is going to spend a bunch of hours a week doing that? And unlike this guy's random scenes and rambling drivel, they would probably need to compose a cohesive script and shot sequence. That takes actual thought. I'm guessing there are already promotional videos for stuff like the Mud Hens, Art Museum, Crosby Gardens, Zoo, etc. Why aren't these sharing the top results?

1.) OK, you were talking about residents. I thought I read someone (else) here talking about business leaders seeing these videos and freaking out. Either way, I think these videos are completely overblown.

Think of this: every day @ 5AM, 6AM, 12Noon, 5P, 6P, and 11P there are at least 3 television stations that broadcast--to a much wider audience (and post clips on the internet)--the terrible horribleness of the murders, robberies, rapes, swindles, problems, and pettiness this city has going on. There's very little "good" news, if you were to rate the content of these shows objectively. Not the best "calling card."

Where's the outrage? Where is the fear? Nowhere. Every city has a newscast and every newscast has (majority) bad news or things that don't paint the city in the best light. Scandal, liasons, fraud, deceit, politics, drive-bys, funerals, gangs, etc. Every. Single. Day. Yet people carry on and love their cities.

Newscasts and their websites have thousands of viewers. And you (and the Blade???) are worried about some guy with a camera, a point of view, and a couple thousand views? Seems like a lot of angst over minimal impact, if any.

2.) And unlike this guy's random scenes and rambling drivel, they would probably need to compose a cohesive script and shot sequence.

Why? Drive through somewhere just like he does and point out the awesome things to be proud of. People watch all kinds of random shit. Just have a point...nobody wants to watch pointless crap.

3.) I'm guessing there are already promotional videos for stuff like the Mud Hens, Art Museum, Crosby Gardens, Zoo, etc. Why aren't these sharing the top results?

A question for (at least) the Toledo Convention and Visitors Bureau, along with the associated city treasures you mention. Search engine optimization is one of the basics of any online entity/business--i.e. make sure the people that want to find you, can.

Then again, I picture a number of old(er), technology clueless people sitting around a conference table downtown talking for hours how best to get on "the Facebook" when I think of the TCVB and realize that my vision might be more accurate than I sarcastically think...

posted by oldhometown on Jul 22, 2014 at 04:55:42 am     #   5 people liked this

"It's easy to downplay the significance when the toll has yet to be seen"

Great point. Bust out with the actual damages. Besides people who don't like it screaming "out him, OUT HIM!"

"spineless."

What somebody calls a total stranger on the internet who is standing up for something that they are not.

posted by justread on Jul 22, 2014 at 06:04:59 am     #  

odnation posted at 08:57:48 PM on Jul 21, 2014:

Thanks for the numbers, didn't know what Promedica would be bringing.

What do you mean cough cough Xerox? 801 Washington is empty because of it.

Ok. So you had the O-I, Xerox, and Lathrop numbers?

The local Xerox affiliate was not going to be the messiah regardless. It's like suggesting that Brauer's deli should have saved the Colony.

Willis Day sold 801 Washington for $850,000 five years ago. Maybe you can get it for $900,000 and make Xerox a super deal.

posted by justread on Jul 22, 2014 at 06:27:27 am     #   1 person liked this

this is all so much ado about nothing... the number of angels that can dance on the head of a pin.

with the amount of coverage of econ.... 98% of toledoans would have no idea this story exists... it is only here at TT that anyone cares. anyone or any business from out of town who looked at these videos would not think the videos matter or that the number of views were large. and they would never base coming to toledo on such tripe. there are solid market size/spending and income info and education quality numbers that drive real business development. most of the views on youtube were probably driven by the media coverage and are meaningless... and quickly forgotten... in any case, you could find the worst streets in places like arlington virginia or boulder colorado and make a similar depressed looking video.

this certainly appears to be as much about baum making a name for himself as indignation at econ.... disagreeing with econ, no matter how passionately, does not strip him of his rights... knowing who he is does not help explain his videos or help to understand him any more... it is really merely curiousity or a way to intimidate him into submission. there has been way too much accomodating or even at some level complicity with baum on his quest...

it is like the old saying about university politics.... why are academic arguements so passionate?! because there is so little at stake.

posted by enjoyeverysandwich on Jul 22, 2014 at 07:55:16 am     #   5 people liked this

Bandito posted at 12:32:46 AM on Jul 22, 2014:

If I recall correctly, the so-called "conservative" Toledo Free Press used to give this guy a weekly forum. So much for the idea of the TFP being some kind of conservative/libertarian alternative to the Blade. Back then, I used to refer to him as "Scruffy the fascist," and by that I mean "lefto-fascist."

This guy is a sick, demented piece of fascist shit.-

...huh?

posted by Sohio on Jul 22, 2014 at 12:06:49 pm     #   5 people liked this

Just think if John Denver would have released his song about Toledo this year. Drama, more drama, and Econcat who ????

posted by Hoops on Jul 22, 2014 at 02:01:04 pm     #  

i just want to throw in my appreciation for the rather civil tone all of this is taking. it's fantastic to be able to have a discussion about things people are passionate about (one way or another) without, for the most part, it resulting in personal insults.

posted by upso on Jul 22, 2014 at 04:54:56 pm     #  

So you are saying that if this thread was on Yelp, you would give it a 5?

:D

posted by justread on Jul 22, 2014 at 05:04:02 pm     #   1 person liked this

no, i'd probably give it a 4 ;)

posted by upso on Jul 22, 2014 at 06:27:38 pm     #  

I think it would already be in politics if AC was still around.

posted by MIJeff on Jul 23, 2014 at 12:26:18 am     #