Toledo Talk

Commute to Owens

Have you ever, in your entire life, heard anyone living in the Toledo area say they cannot attend Owens CC......because it's too far away?

created by BulldogBuckeye on Jun 05, 2014 at 12:59:24 pm     Comments: 41

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never

posted by upso on Jun 05, 2014 at 01:07:23 pm     #  

I've never heard that either, although I'd imagine living on the west or south side of town the drive out to booneyville Perrysburg Township could get old after awhile. Good thing most degrees there are two year.

posted by mixman on Jun 05, 2014 at 03:00:56 pm     #  

Owens= Booneyville?? have you ever driven out to BG lol

posted by lfrost2125 on Jun 05, 2014 at 03:23:16 pm     #  

Anthing on the edge of the city with farm fields across the street is Booneyville. Yes, the drive to BG is extra Booneyville.

posted by mixman on Jun 05, 2014 at 03:25:53 pm     #   3 people liked this

I commute from south Toledo to the 795/Tracy Rd area every week day. I hate it. My office is 11 miles from my house, but it takes me 25 to get there.

posted by slowsol on Jun 05, 2014 at 05:36:31 pm     #  

Agreed that a trip to Owens is much faster than a BG trip, which I make 4-5 days a week. I am in West Toledo, and when I taught at Owens I could normally make the trip in 20 minutes or less, while BG is 30-35 minutes each way.

Now, Toledo-to-Findlay is an entire additional level of boondocks-commuting...

posted by historymike on Jun 05, 2014 at 06:04:20 pm     #   1 person liked this

Returning to original topic:

Also, TARTA has an Owens route, so anyone complaining about the distance could always take the bus.

posted by historymike on Jun 05, 2014 at 06:07:06 pm     #   2 people liked this

I live on the far Western edge of Sylvania Twp. (Almost out to Richfield Twp)

My husband used to work near Owens and made the drive every day.

If someone was motivated to do a program at Owens, I can't imagine the distance would be an issue.

I suppose I could see someone using distance as a cop out if they weren't truly motivated for classes.

posted by mom2 on Jun 05, 2014 at 06:11:56 pm     #   3 people liked this

Motivation is all you need. My bro in law, who lived in Findlay, wanted to be an electrician in the union so bad, he'd work an 8-hour day, usually in Fremont or Fostoria, drive in to the union hall on Lime City Rd 3 nights a week for classes and drive to Columbus one other night for classes, drive home, then get up and do it all again, every week for 18 months. I have NO patience with anyone who complains about a 20 minute commute anywhere after I watched him do that!

posted by nana on Jun 05, 2014 at 07:26:36 pm     #   1 person liked this

It's less than 10 minutes from downtown, and easily accessible from 75. I made that trek many days and it's nothing. Care to explain the reason behind the question?

posted by hunkytownsausage on Jun 05, 2014 at 07:46:27 pm     #  

Mom2: what area are you in? I'm in maple creek.

posted by a_fan on Jun 05, 2014 at 07:57:08 pm     #  

As someone who has lived in some of the worst cities for traffic in the United States, the idea of a 20 minute commute in clear traffic being an obstacle to education makes me roll my eyes so hard I may need surgery to realign them....

posted by oldhometown on Jun 06, 2014 at 01:06:57 am     #   1 person liked this

seriously. after spending 35+ years in the toledo area, i'm now in chicago more than half my weeks and... seriously.... moving 3 miles here during rush hour can take WAY over an hour, when in toledo... it might take 10-15 minutes max but usually no more than 5 minutes.

it's all relative i know

posted by upso on Jun 06, 2014 at 01:15:57 am     #   1 person liked this

The reason behind the question is that in a Blade editorial, they asserted that Owens CC should move downtown because it's current location is an obstacle for Toledo's disadvantaged. Another warped, anti-regional/anti-Wood County, slant by The Blade.

posted by BulldogBuckeye on Jun 06, 2014 at 09:03:36 am     #   1 person liked this

What a joke.

1) Downtown location wouldn't be that significant of a distance change for most people. Just a few exits different on I-75.

2) Who would absorb the costs of the move? What would happen to the existing property? Who would pay to develop a new campus downtown?

3) Parking. A campus like Owens would need a lot of parking. How would downtown accommodate the influx of cars, taking into consideration the need for new Promedica parking too?

I could see the potential for working downtown employers to offer satellite classes to accommodate employees on site.

But the idea of incurring the costs to move the main campus makes no sense.

posted by mom2 on Jun 06, 2014 at 09:46:19 am     #   2 people liked this

What a joke.

1) Downtown location wouldn't be that significant of a distance change for most people. Just a few exits different on I-75.

2) Who would absorb the costs of the move? What would happen to the existing property? Who would pay to develop a new campus downtown?

3) Parking. A campus like Owens would need a lot of parking. How would downtown accommodate the influx of cars, taking into consideration the need for new Promedica parking too?

I could see the potential for working downtown employers to offer satellite classes to accommodate employees on site.

But the idea of incurring the costs to move the main campus makes no sense.

posted by mom2 on Jun 06, 2014 at 09:46:19 am     #  

Sorry about the double post.

A_fan, I'm really close to Maple Creek. Just west of Brint and Mitchaw.

posted by mom2 on Jun 06, 2014 at 09:48:16 am     #  

What about that new Center for Fine and Performing Arts that Owens JUST BUILT a couple of years ago? Also, don't they do disaster training there? How in the world would they do that downtown?

I'm all for new business downtown, but this is a non-starter. Their campus is fine. They have their own and TARTA buses. Yes, it may be a tad more convenient for inner city students, but it would be a huge parking mess for commuters, and the last thing we need is another building razed for a parking lot.

Arrgh. This idea is just stupid.

posted by Anniecski on Jun 06, 2014 at 10:14:41 am     #   3 people liked this

I don't know, guys. It may be prohibitively expensive, but I think they are onto something about having the school closer to the area's population base. Owens is losing money for a reason. Why not explore all possible solutions? Maybe easier access is the key. Like people (and the article) mentioned, many would-be students don't have cars. Or can't afford gas out to Perrysburg and back. If Owens could sway another 500-1,000 people a year to attend with a more central location, that would enevitably improve their bottom line. It could also be a boost to downtown.

Where would it go? How about the barren wasteland between the Hillcrest and Mercy College? (The area bounded by Madison, Monroe, 17th and 21st streets). That part of town is mostly a bunch of single story dilapidated buildings and empty lots... a beat-down, worn-out vestige of days gone by. A new school over there would be a welcome addition to the city.

posted by mixman on Jun 06, 2014 at 02:53:55 pm     #  

Owens could always just add a few buses of their own to compliment TARTA's existing times and routes and let the students ride for free. Takes care of potential students who don't have a car or can't afford gas or bus fare to get there. And it would be a whole lot cheaper and more practical than relocating their campus.

posted by Mike21 on Jun 06, 2014 at 03:13:08 pm     #   2 people liked this

"Anthing on the edge of the city with farm fields across the street is Booneyville."

You can find booneyville, farm-field areas within the city of Toledo, like along Hill Ave between Reynolds and Westwood. When my wife and I want to visit the country, we attend University Church.

I didn't know that northern Wood County still had farm fields.


https://www.owens.edu/shuttle

Owens Community College transportation is committed to providing safe, efficient and economical mobility to all members of the College community through its no-fare bus service.

Downtown Toledo Bus Service
https://www.owens.edu/shuttle/bus.html

The Downtown Bus Loop connects Owens Community College Toledo-area Campus with downtown Toledo and the Owens Community College Learning Center Downtown Toledo. It also provides transportation throughout the Toledo-area Campus. The Downtown Bus Loop operates during the Fall, Spring and Summer semesters.

The bus stop in downtown Toledo is on Huron Street between Jackson and Adams streets (around the corner from Tarta's government station). There are seven bus stops located on campus (see map). The bus number is number 50.

In the Fall and Spring semesters, depending on the time of day, either a TARTA bus or a vehicle marked "Owens Community College" will run the designated route. In the Summer Semester, Owens vehicles will run a limited schedule.


Did the University of Toledo move its law school to downtown Toledo like the Blade and others had commanded about 10 years ago?

ReUrbanism Meeting Notes Jun 28, 2005

It was suggested that the UT Law School be moved downtown, and have UT play their sports in a downtown arena. If UT trustees aren't interested, then get new trustees. It's a public university. UT receives taxpayer dollars. UT should be more open to being a part of Toledo's downtown growth.

One at the meeting spoke with a trustee or trustees, and he believes UT has a suburban attitude and desires to keep its world on campus.

The arts and UT. Apparently, UT would like more studio space concentrated in an area such as Monroe St downtown.

Light rail mentioned as a possible form of public transportation like what's used in Dublin. It would be a way to connect UT to downtown. Also suggested that TARTA do more.

I don't monitor those newsy things anymore, so did anything mentioned nine years ago happen yet?

posted by jr on Jun 06, 2014 at 04:44:53 pm     #   4 people liked this

OMG! http://www.toledoblade.com/Education/2014/06/06/Kaptur-backs-Owens-adding-central-campus-for-Toledo.html Marcy agrees with Blade in a stunner!

posted by fred on Jun 06, 2014 at 05:52:35 pm     #  

Owens is losing money for a reason.

Owens is losing money because they have dropped a third of their enrollment in the last five years, yet staffing levels have remained pretty steady.

posted by MrsArcher on Jun 06, 2014 at 10:15:47 pm     #  

Owens did a round of layoffs in 2013 and reduced their staffing levels from 513 to 411.

posted by OnePlainPerson on Jun 07, 2014 at 07:25:09 am     #  

Well... sort of?

It looks like what happened is this:
They started reducing staff through attrition in 2011 resulting in approximately 120 separations in three years and did a round of 30 administrative layoffs in like April or May of 2013. I don't think they dropped 102 people in one layoff in 2013. Maybe I missed something?

posted by justread on Jun 07, 2014 at 08:00:56 am     #  

Hill Avenue is not booneyville by definition. It has farm fields, but it's in the middle of the city. That's why I said: "Anything on the edge of the city..."

Draw a big circle around the contiguously developed part of town, and Owens lies pretty close to the edge of it - if not outside the edge. Next door there is an industrial zone with warehouses, a railroad switching yard, a couple small neighborhoods, and a bunch of farm fields. Hence booneyville. In terms of the metro area, Owens is in the middle of nowhere.

posted by mixman on Jun 07, 2014 at 03:56:44 pm     #   1 person liked this

I agree that the commute from any part of Toledo to Owens is nothing to complain about. Personally, if I was a potential evening student and Owens was in downtown Toledo, the thought of crime alone in the area alone would deter me. If a person can't afford bus fare/driving a car to Owens and back, how could they afford the tuition and/or the student loans that would have to be paid back with interest?

posted by inga on Jun 08, 2014 at 05:40:17 pm     #  

Burris toting the rock for The Blockheads: http://www.toledoblade.com/Keith-Burris/2014/06/10/Owens-city-can-make-lemonade.html

Please STOP IT with the "they don't have cars" thing. Take the gd TARTA bus that the suburbs are subsidizing. Makes me sick.

posted by BulldogBuckeye on Jun 10, 2014 at 09:04:21 am     #   3 people liked this

Totally agree with Bulldog. Owens is NOT far from downtown/central city. This idea is ludicrous. Owens also offers a ton of distance learning courses, too. What's next, will we have to start subsidizing computers and internet access for the poor souls who can't afford it? Jesus Christ it just makes me shake my head.

posted by dell_diva on Jun 10, 2014 at 09:24:44 am     #   1 person liked this

While I don't disagree with the premise that our training is lacking in Toledo, moving OCC downtown won't change a damn thing. Go ahead.....re-open Macomber. Open a downtown branch of UT, OCC, Lourdes, or whatever. Focus on getting people trained....not this pollyanna horseshit.

posted by BulldogBuckeye on Jun 10, 2014 at 09:28:33 am     #  

While I don't disagree with the premise that our training is lacking in Toledo, moving OCC downtown won't change a damn thing. Go ahead.....re-open Macomber. Open a downtown branch of UT, OCC, Lourdes, or whatever. Focus on getting people trained....not this pollyanna horseshit.

posted by BulldogBuckeye on Jun 10, 2014 at 09:28:38 am     #  

He is an ill-informed sycophant and a nearly unreadable writer.

posted by justread on Jun 10, 2014 at 09:29:34 am     #   4 people liked this

Burris that is. Some posts snuck in there. :)

posted by justread on Jun 10, 2014 at 09:30:39 am     #  

dell_diva posted at 09:24:44 AM on Jun 10, 2014:

Totally agree with Bulldog. Owens is NOT far from downtown/central city. This idea is ludicrous. Owens also offers a ton of distance learning courses, too. What's next, will we have to start subsidizing computers and internet access for the poor souls who can't afford it? Jesus Christ it just makes me shake my head.

Um, don't look now, but we already do.

posted by Foodie on Jun 10, 2014 at 10:22:10 am     #  

Mom2 said: "If someone was motivated to do a program at Owens, I can't imagine the distance would be an issue. I suppose I could see someone using distance as a cop out if they weren't truly motivated for classes."

I agree totally. If you're not motivated because of the distance, then you don't really want to attend, in my opinion. It's not like you're spending hours getting from point A to point B.

Just who would benefit from moving Owens downtown? Perhaps JRB owns some downtown parking lots, which rake in a ton of money.

Get used to this story. I think The Blade will make it into another crusade until the move is made.

posted by renegade on Jun 10, 2014 at 07:12:17 pm     #   1 person liked this

JRB has a building with printing equipment in it he probably wants to get rid of.

posted by MIJeff on Jun 10, 2014 at 08:48:23 pm     #  

"Get used to this story. I think The Blade will make it into another crusade until the move is made."

It's possible that Owens Community College may have financial reasons for NOT increasing its presence in downtown Toledo.

About 12 days ago, Block Communications Inc. announced its plan to close the Blade's "production section of its building in downtown Toledo later this year," which will result in the loss of 131 jobs.

Did the Blade editorial board and columnists, such as Burris, write protests, denouncing BCI's business decision? If not, why not?

June 2007 Blade op-ed titled The Masons flee once more

THE announced departure of the Masonic organization from the Zenobia Shrine location it has occupied for nearly six decades on Madison Avenue is not the first time the Masons have decided to abandon the heart of the city.

Many Toledoans will recall that the Masons left their downtown temple at Michigan and Adams streets and opened a new Masonic complex in 1969 on Heatherdowns Boulevard.

(Is the Blade still upset about that 1969 decision?)

More from that June 2007 editorial:

Now the Masons intend to make their abandonment of downtown Toledo complete by relocating what remains of their operations at the Zenobia Shrine to an as yet undisclosed location in Perrysburg Township.

When the Blade's production section abandons downtown Toledo, where will the newspaper be printed? Perrysburg? Maumee? Berkey?

So why did the Masons move from downtown Toledo?

Declining memberships of Toledo's Masonic organizations has them looking for smaller, more cost-efficient facilities ...

It may have been a financial decision.

Why is the Blade's production section abandoning downtown Toledo?

... citing the expense of replacing aging printing presses and production equipment, The Blade proposed moving to an outside vendor for newspaper production when its current labor contract ends May 31.

In addition, The Blade’s Superior Street building is “expensive to maintain and it, alone, may require millions of dollars of repairs.” The newspaper has also “been losing money for many years, with losses exceeding $8.5 million in 2013,” the email stated.

It could be a financial decision.

The Blade protests others, such as the United Way's building plan, when they make decisions based upon financial reasons, but when the Blade makes a similar decision, that's okay.

From the Jun 10, 2014 Burris column

The combination of these factors has caused a number of people to say: Why not increase Owens’ presence in downtown Toledo?

Most recently, these voices have included The Blade, editorially, and Rep. Marcy Kaptur.

I think the "number of people" includes only the Blade and Kaptur.

Anyway, this has a familiar ring.

August 2008 Blade story Downtown site for University of Toledo law school resurfaces

There's a proposal out there to instantly bring 500 of the area s brightest young minds to downtown Toledo, triggering a wave of revitalization that could fill empty storefronts, attain the critical mass of urban dwellers needed for growth, and go a ways toward plugging the so-called brain drain.

The idea to move the University of Toledo college of law to downtown has again entered public discussion.

These proponents say that after some initial sacrifice on the university's part mostly in renovation costs the relocation would bring great long-term benefits for both UT and the city.

From the June 2014 Burris column:

[Kaptur] points out that community colleges are downtown in Cleveland, Dayton, and Columbus ...

From the 2008 Blade story:

A few of the nation's top-ranked and most prestigious law schools have downtown locations, including Northwestern University school of law in Chicago and Georgetown law in Washington.

Even though the Blade's production section plans to abandon downtown Toledo for financial reasons, the Blade feels qualified to tell other organizations how to operate.

posted by jr on Jun 10, 2014 at 09:22:46 pm     #   4 people liked this

Do as I say not as I do.

posted by MIJeff on Jun 10, 2014 at 09:25:21 pm     #   2 people liked this

Even though the Blade's production section plans to abandon downtown Toledo for financial reasons, the Blade feels qualified to tell other organizations how to operate.

No shame. None. And they won't address the issue either because they know it looks bad.

How hard did they rake others over the public relations coals regarding moving out of downtown (if not completely out of Toledo)??? Basically calling their moves bullshit. Those companies should just suck up higher costs for themselves (and have their employees swallow parking and commuting expenses) because that's just the way things should be.

Well, when it comes the their money, their future prospects, their business....well well well, what a different tune we hum. See ya.

I'm sure someone from inside will talk about what a painful decision this was, the history of the building, how it is heartbreaking, yada yada yada. None of those kindnesses were ever ever ever extended to businesses that left downtown because of the same economic pressures. They were called greedy....not living up to some vague "civic duty"....or some other disparagement as they headed to (if we were fortunate) the suburbs or out of town completely.

posted by oldhometown on Jun 11, 2014 at 12:34:09 am     #   5 people liked this

Very well said, JR and OHT.

What do you bet they put out some nostalgic and romantic look back at their glorious production history at that location in some Special Commemorative Edition of the Blade (suitable for framing, of course).

posted by JoeyGee on Jun 11, 2014 at 07:55:29 am     #   2 people liked this

Not to mention that most of those business still kept the jobs local. Just located in the suburbs vs. downtown.

The Blade is sending their production north of Detroit.

Hypocrites.

posted by mom2 on Jun 11, 2014 at 09:52:36 am     #   1 person liked this