Toledo Talk

Andersons' new HQ

Odds on location?

http://www.toledoblade.com/Retail/2014/07/04/The-Andersons-goes-shopping-for-new-headquarters-location.html

created by MrGlass419 on Jul 06, 2014 at 11:05:11 am     Comments: 81

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Comments ... #

My money says they stay in this area. They are well rooted here, grew up and raised their families here and already donated their estate on Holland Sylvania to the Metroparks. They are just posturing for tax breaks, land deals etc. like Owens Corning and Jeep did.

posted by Mike21 on Jul 06, 2014 at 11:15:07 am     #  

I don't think there is any logical person who would think Andersons is relocating out of the metro area. I would say 90% chance they stay in Maumee and either build a new office campus directly across the street or somewhere in the plot of land between Ford Street and 475, bordered by Dussel and 20A.

posted by JustaSooner on Jul 06, 2014 at 11:24:30 am     #   1 person liked this

Maumee.

posted by Molsonator on Jul 06, 2014 at 11:46:54 am     #  

Another side story that I think is equally as interesting is the fact they hired an out of town general contractor to build it for them. How's that for keeping your money local?

And unions aside. There are non union general contractors in Toledo that are qualified to build such a structure.

posted by slowsol on Jul 06, 2014 at 11:48:44 am     #  

I have heard some murmurs of a near downtown location but at this point... I'm not holding my breath.

posted by upso on Jul 06, 2014 at 11:55:22 am     #  

slowsol posted at 12:48:44 PM on Jul 06, 2014:

Another side story that I think is equally as interesting is the fact they hired an out of town general contractor to build it for them. How's that for keeping your money local?

And unions aside. There are non union general contractors in Toledo that are qualified to build such a structure.

Why is it interesting? Because it has the feeling of a "scandal" that can get people worked up? Unless you were part of the decision making and understand why any certain company was hired over another, it really serves no purpose to bring it up.

posted by JustaSooner on Jul 06, 2014 at 12:00:15 pm     #  

I'd love to see them move downtown, but the odds are they'll remain in Maumee. Too bad, because the Fiberglass tower has some of the best views around and would likely work well for their purposes.

posted by Brewster on Jul 06, 2014 at 12:17:06 pm     #  

Did they ever get all the asbestos out of the tower? Otherwise you talking about walking into a mess, regardless of views.

posted by MIJeff on Jul 06, 2014 at 12:18:48 pm     #  

JustaSooner posted at 01:00:15 PM on Jul 06, 2014:
slowsol posted at 12:48:44 PM on Jul 06, 2014:

Another side story that I think is equally as interesting is the fact they hired an out of town general contractor to build it for them. How's that for keeping your money local?

And unions aside. There are non union general contractors in Toledo that are qualified to build such a structure.

Why is it interesting? Because it has the feeling of a "scandal" that can get people worked up? Unless you were part of the decision making and understand why any certain company was hired over another, it really serves no purpose to bring it up.

It seems pretty relevant to the discussion, but if you'd like me to post only things like this in Blade threads just let me know.

posted by slowsol on Jul 06, 2014 at 12:19:42 pm     #   1 person liked this

Brewster posted at 01:17:06 PM on Jul 06, 2014:

I'd love to see them move downtown, but the odds are they'll remain in Maumee. Too bad, because the Fiberglass tower has some of the best views around and would likely work well for their purposes.

If the area is going to go into full recovery mode it can't cannibalize the rest of the metro area to the benefit of downtown. There has to be a clear movement to bring in businesses from outside the area to grow the tax base for the city.

posted by JustaSooner on Jul 06, 2014 at 12:32:24 pm     #   1 person liked this

I recently watched the WGTE documentary about The Andersons. It recounted how, when they built the elevator in Maumee (and later, the elevator along the Maumee), they did it with local, non-union employees. There were apparently pickets, but some kind of deal was negotiated.

posted by WordsRUs on Jul 06, 2014 at 12:57:30 pm     #  

IMHO There is no way will they go to downtown Toledo. The company has such deep roots in Maumee that I don't see them leaving.

Also I don't see them moving to a spot where parking will be such a pain for their employees. A more wide open space with their own lot is more their style.

posted by shamrock44 on Jul 06, 2014 at 02:41:36 pm     #  

I'll put my money on Ford Street or Longbow Drive (or the corner of Ford & Longbow) like the article mentioned. Beaver Creek Circle could be the longshot with a slightly longer shot being downtown. If it ends up being Perrysburg, I will consider them traitors and never shop in their store again. jk

posted by mixman on Jul 06, 2014 at 03:08:55 pm     #  

They will build a new campus in the community that offers the best tax breaks. Nothing wrong with that. That's the business-political game. All the big businesses play it.

Any large, vacant properties for sale in Toledo?

They could choose a location within a JEDZ, and Toledo could still get a piece of the action.

posted by jr on Jul 06, 2014 at 05:58:19 pm     #  

JR is 100% correct. Exam their growth and recent earnings and they can build wherever they choose. They have strong familial ties and loyalty to the entire community. Optimizing incentives is how well managed businesses exceed.

posted by Mariner on Jul 06, 2014 at 06:13:43 pm     #  

The largest undeveloped parcel in the city of Toledo is Kiel Farm, the 154 acre parcel at the corner of Hill and Reynolds...

posted by Mike21 on Jul 06, 2014 at 06:47:00 pm     #  

They are not leaving Maumee.

posted by Molsonator on Jul 06, 2014 at 06:51:35 pm     #  

Molsonator posted at 07:51:35 PM on Jul 06, 2014:

They are not leaving Maumee.

Does Maumee have a large area of land available for The Anderson's to build a campus? What about the area around the Fallen mall? I think that's a JEDZ with Toledo.

I predict that The Anderson's HQ will remain outside Toledo, but they will choose a site where Toledo benefits some, tax-wise.

Does the Triad Business Park still have room?

... a joint economic development zone between Toledo, Maumee, and Monclova Township.

http://m.toledoblade.com/Retail/2014/02/04/Allermuir-expanding-in-Maumee-Commercial-furniture-maker-s-plans-could-create-over-70-jobs.html

The Anderson's have visited sites outside Maumee, correct?

posted by jr on Jul 06, 2014 at 08:05:36 pm     #  

Mike21 posted at 07:47:00 PM on Jul 06, 2014:

The largest undeveloped parcel in the city of Toledo is Kiel Farm, the 154 acre parcel at the corner of Hill and Reynolds...

I think that at least 90 acres of that belongs to the Metroparks.

https://www.toledoblade.com/local/2008/01/17/Metroparks-will-buy-2nd-portion-of-Keil-farm.html

posted by jr on Jul 06, 2014 at 08:13:30 pm     #   1 person liked this

I think there is still land in the Triad park. There are two new businesses going in out there. One is the furniture company listed above, I'm not sure what the other is.

posted by slowsol on Jul 06, 2014 at 08:46:49 pm     #  

I think there is still land in the Triad park. There are two new businesses going in out there. One is the furniture company listed above, I'm not sure what the other is.

posted by slowsol on Jul 06, 2014 at 08:46:49 pm     #  

Agreed about downtown Toledo being a pipe dream. The Great Lakes Terminal Warehouse would be an awesome spot, since it's a huge location, more than ample parking around there, right next to the future metro park, in an area that is slated for a pretty big overhaul/redevelopment, and a stone's throw from their giant Maumee River loading complex. But in reality, I just don't see them going anywhere that doesn't benefit the city of Maumee somehow (ie, Maumee itself, or the JEDZ)

posted by Johio83 on Jul 06, 2014 at 09:15:43 pm     #  

mixman posted at 04:08:55 PM on Jul 06, 2014:

I'll put my money on Ford Street or Longbow Drive (or the corner of Ford & Longbow) like the article mentioned. Beaver Creek Circle could be the longshot with a slightly longer shot being downtown. If it ends up being Perrysburg, I will consider them traitors and never shop in their store again. jk

I think you are right. Ford and Longbow is probably the most logical choice for them. Plenty of room back in that area. Beaver Creek would be possible as well I suppose. Anything south of there is zoned Industrial I believe, but I don't Maumee would have an issue rezoning if needed.

I don't see them going into the JEDZ in Monclova though and definitely not downtown or Pburg.

posted by JustaSooner on Jul 07, 2014 at 01:52:50 am     #  

And the winner is...Monclova Twp!

http://www.toledoblade.com/Retail/2014/11/14/The-Andersons-moving-headquarters-to-55-acre-site-in-Monclova-Township.html

posted by slowsol on Nov 14, 2014 at 05:53:32 pm     #  

That's an interesting choice. It's like < 2 miles form the current spot, and I guess I didn't realize they were keeping the old building as well. I had no idea Brandywine had 27 holes either. Freeway access couldn't be easier, construction on Dussel is recently completed. Seems like a good thing all around.

posted by ahmahler on Nov 14, 2014 at 05:59:03 pm     #  

I don't know if that means they are keeping their office building or keeping their other employees in Maumee. They have offices over by their store.

posted by slowsol on Nov 14, 2014 at 08:04:09 pm     #  

I can only hope that the new HQ will be slightly larger than the mega-home being under construction on Salisbury Hill. I wonder which project will be completed first . . .

posted by jimavolt on Nov 15, 2014 at 09:16:55 am     #   2 people liked this

slowsol posted at 08:04:09 PM on Nov 14, 2014:

I don't know if that means they are keeping their office building or keeping their other employees in Maumee. They have offices over by their store.

I think the plan is to move everyone from the HQ at Ford and Dussell to the new building. I think that also includes some people from the offices on Illinois but not those related to the grain operations over there.

I also understand that they are planning for a significant increase in the number of employees at the new building in the near future. Not from moving other employees but from growth and acquisitions.

posted by glasscityguy on Nov 18, 2014 at 03:56:48 pm     #  

"A spokesman said the company would move about 450 people from Maumee to Monclova. The Andersons would still have about 700 employees at its other operations in Maumee. Read more at http://www.toledoblade.com/Retail/2014/11/14/The-Andersons-moving-headquarters-to-55-acre-site-in-Monclova-Township.html#3ZkAZjq5bLmveQli.99"

There was something written previously about the reason for this in the first place was there wasn't enough room at the single location. They had always planned to expand to 2 campuses if possible. If you've ever been inside the existing headquarters, you know how cramped it is. And there's not enough parking.

posted by ahmahler on Nov 18, 2014 at 04:37:19 pm     #  

I thought some of the earlier articles stated that their lease was up at their existing HQ and that helped prompt them.

posted by slowsol on Nov 18, 2014 at 07:26:31 pm     #  

That is my understanding. They will not be using the existing HQ. It is owned by Turner Construction/Lathrop. I guess Lathrop is leaving their building next door - meaning two buildings up for lease?

posted by Molsonator on Nov 18, 2014 at 08:38:27 pm     #  

Then there is this.....

http://www.toledonewsnow.com/story/28266134/lucas-county-commissioners-move-forward-with-plan-to-purchase-and-demolish-occupied-apartment-for-the-andersons-new-headquarters

Wonder why they didn't mention the property owners name in the article?

posted by Molsonator on Mar 05, 2015 at 06:35:08 am     #  

Because in the context of the government, "purchase" of real estate is a euphamism for "acquiring" via eminent domain, aka eminent theft. And neither the government nor the press want the people to know the names of the victims.

This smacks of Kelo vs New London CT.

If The Andersons goes through with this, foock them. Is there really anything I can buy only at their stores?

posted by Bandito on Mar 05, 2015 at 06:42:51 pm     #   2 people liked this

That is crap. I was original under the impression that the owner wanted to sell. If he or she doesn't, that is too bad on the Anderson's part.

I was told by a commercial real estate guy that Anderson's considered Southwyck. I would be curious to know what swung them away from Southwyck as it seems that the whole thing would have been neater and the city of Toledo would have bent over backwards to accommodate them

posted by Dappling2 on Mar 05, 2015 at 08:29:37 pm     #   1 person liked this

Because we all know owners of Apartment complexes are all about the old family property and not about money.

posted by Molsonator on Mar 05, 2015 at 08:39:11 pm     #  

Seems kinda shitty to evict 20 people for a driveway. :(

posted by nana on Mar 05, 2015 at 09:38:52 pm     #   1 person liked this

If they were on a lease, you could simply not renew their lease. However, to force the sale of a building through eminent domain for the benefit of a private entity is IMO sketchy

posted by Dappling2 on Mar 05, 2015 at 10:45:45 pm     #  

Uh...

Hypothetically speaking, what if the owners did want to sell, but didn't want to jump on the first offer, considering the ongoing value of the income producing asset. The buyer, not being interested in the improvements, wants to get the land as cheap as possible. These two positions can and will be reconciled without the need for eminent domain. For all we know, both parties are acting in good faith, they just aren't "there" yet.

People need to calm down.

posted by justread on Mar 06, 2015 at 05:10:22 am     #   3 people liked this

Every day the project is slowed is another day of payroll tax in Maumee. Take your time Apartment owner dude. Ha!

posted by Molsonator on Mar 06, 2015 at 06:29:59 am     #  

If eminent domain means an escape of capital gains tax, I would like it to be seized, please. :D

posted by justread on Mar 06, 2015 at 07:12:31 am     #   1 person liked this

Toledo and Lucas County are democrat and union utopias for corporate welfare. If it adds one job, give the corporation whatever they want.

Big oil and other evil giant corporations should come to Toledo and study from Democrats on how to effectively get corporate welfare without upsetting the democrat voter base.

posted by toledoramblingman on Mar 06, 2015 at 07:38:31 am     #   1 person liked this

justread posted at 07:12:31 AM on Mar 06, 2015:

If eminent domain means an escape of capital gains tax, I would like it to be seized, please. :D

For IRS purposes, a sale is a sale even if the government has to force the sale so no avoidance of capital gains tax although the owner can do a tax free exchange with the proceeds in order to delay the recognition of a gain.

posted by MsArcher on Mar 06, 2015 at 08:14:04 am     #  

Ok. Then I just want as much as I can get so I can buy another income producing asset elsewhere.

posted by justread on Mar 06, 2015 at 08:19:17 am     #   2 people liked this

toledoramblingman posted at 07:38:31 AM on Mar 06, 2015:

Toledo and Lucas County are democrat and union utopias for corporate welfare. If it adds one job, give the corporation whatever they want.

Big oil and other evil giant corporations should come to Toledo and study from Democrats on how to effectively get corporate welfare without upsetting the democrat voter base.

They get welfare called subsidies

posted by steve155 on Mar 06, 2015 at 09:18:29 am     #  

I'm not going to hold my breath waiting to see if Andersons deletes this line from their "Values" page on their website:
We believe in the traditions of freedom and liberty that exist in the United States. We believe in the free enterprise system, fair competition...
http://www.andersonsinc.com/values

Or perhaps they'll leave it in and add, "--except when we want your property and enlist the government steal it for us."

What digusting hypocrites!

posted by Bandito on Mar 06, 2015 at 09:56:46 am     #  

Huh? Way to jump to conclusions.

posted by Molsonator on Mar 06, 2015 at 10:23:53 am     #   2 people liked this

Geez some of you better NEVER leave Toledo.

Go to actual growing cities and eminent domain is used daily. How do you think cities like Charlotte, Houston, San Antonio, Tampa, and on and on and on grew into such popular booming cities and economies.

Yikes there is some old school thinking in Toledo. Its an apartment complex, the owner will be paid handsomely, well over value, and the tenants have to move. I am sure they have gotten sufficient notice to relocate - I mean they have known about it for 6 months already.

Heck - same thing happened with Arnies and El Nuevo - they were told their Lease was over and the buildings were sold and they had to relocate.

People want Toledo to grow - well welcome to growth. Big Business will ALWAYS get the benefit, that's just what it is. Do I always like it, nope, but unless you want to die on the vine you have to put on your big boy pants and accept this is how it works all the growing cities in this country.

Now I will sit back and watch all the upset people come at me for believing a corporate headquarters for a fortune 500 company is more important to Toledo than a 20 unit apartment complex. LOL - only Toledo would rather have an apartment complex over a fortune 500 headquarters. Unbelievable.

posted by Xbuckeyex on Mar 06, 2015 at 10:27:05 am     #   3 people liked this

Wow. Andersons is bigger than Owens Corning. Never knew that. (I was looking up where Anderson's is on the Fortune 500)

posted by Molsonator on Mar 06, 2015 at 10:33:00 am     #   1 person liked this

YES - There grain/agriculture is massive. The stores actually only account for around 10% of their annual revenue (this was info as of 2012 I believe).

But we have ppl on here who would rather have a 20 unit apartment complex over Andersons Corporate Headquarters.

Stunning imo.

posted by Xbuckeyex on Mar 06, 2015 at 10:38:37 am     #   3 people liked this

Molsonator posted at 10:23:53 AM on Mar 06, 2015:

Huh? Way to jump to conclusions.

There is some really serious ignorance, and ignorance-based prejudice on this thread.

posted by justread on Mar 06, 2015 at 10:42:30 am     #  

Bandito posted at 09:56:46 AM on Mar 06, 2015:I'm not going to hold my breath waiting to see if Andersons deletes this line from their "Values" page on their website:
We believe in the traditions of freedom and liberty that exist in the United States. We believe in the free enterprise system, fair competition...
http://www.andersonsinc.com/values

Or perhaps they'll leave it in and add, "--except when we want your property and enlist the government steal it for us."

What digusting hypocrites!

Do you know these folks personally, or does your ability to predict what they will do, and how they will act come from internet searches?

Because between your comments and the Anderson's actions, I come up with a completely different assessment of who is disgusting.

posted by justread on Mar 06, 2015 at 10:44:17 am     #   2 people liked this

Glad to see a few reasonable ppl on this site.

We have (2) companies building corporate headquarters in our area - Promedica and Andersons. Between the 2 companies you will have 2-3,000 well paying jobs and probably many more over the next decade.

And we have people upset over a 20 unit apartment complex and a parking garage.

Seriously think about that.

posted by Xbuckeyex on Mar 06, 2015 at 10:49:28 am     #   1 person liked this

Mike and Carol Anderson are two of the kindest and most generous supporters our community has. You could put quite a list together of the charities and organizations around the area that they help fund.

posted by Johio83 on Mar 06, 2015 at 10:56:49 am     #   2 people liked this

Johio83 -

I have been told that Andersons donates all of their profits made from their stores back to the community. Not sure if this is true, but this comes from two separate Anderson employees.

But - heaven forbid they build their headquarters where a 20 unit apartment complex is located.

Great people, great company, great opportunity for our area.

posted by Xbuckeyex on Mar 06, 2015 at 11:06:00 am     #   1 person liked this

steve155 posted at 09:18:29 AM on Mar 06, 2015:
toledoramblingman posted at 07:38:31 AM on Mar 06, 2015:

Toledo and Lucas County are democrat and union utopias for corporate welfare. If it adds one job, give the corporation whatever they want.

Big oil and other evil giant corporations should come to Toledo and study from Democrats on how to effectively get corporate welfare without upsetting the democrat voter base.

They get welfare called subsidies

So does ethanol, wind, solar.

posted by MIJeff on Mar 06, 2015 at 11:08:10 am     #  

Xbuckeyex posted at 10:49:28 AM on Mar 06, 2015:

Glad to see a few reasonable ppl on this site.

We have (2) companies building corporate headquarters in our area - Promedica and Andersons. Between the 2 companies you will have 2-3,000 well paying jobs and probably many more over the next decade.

And we have people upset over a 20 unit apartment complex and a parking garage.

Seriously think about that.

Well those jobs were already in the general area, now bring something from Illinois or New York to here and you can brag about jobs.

posted by MIJeff on Mar 06, 2015 at 11:11:27 am     #  

MIJeff - so you don't believe that companies can grow???? Hasn't Promedica already proven how fast they can grow? Andersons is up 20 spots on the fortune 500 list from last year.

Give me a break. Companies don't invest Millions of dollars to build headquarters to stay stagnant.

So I will brag about those jobs - same way Promedica has surpassed Jeep as the largest employer in Northwest Ohio and will continue to widen the gap.

Nice try.

posted by Xbuckeyex on Mar 06, 2015 at 11:30:26 am     #   4 people liked this

Andersons is up 20 spots on the fortune 500 list from last year

I'll show those bastards! I'm gonna stop buying 6 vegetable plants in the spring, some random craft beer six packs and parts for my grill. That will show them. Cut them off at the knees, I will.

(Shakes fist in the direction of Maumee.)

posted by justread on Mar 06, 2015 at 12:03:28 pm     #   4 people liked this

Molsonator posted at 10:23:53 AM on Mar 06, 2015:

Huh? Way to jump to conclusions.

There is some really serious ignorance, and ignorance-based prejudice on this thread.

! posted by justread on Mar 06, 2015 at 10:42:30 am #

No, it's called logic. (Something you might want to try employing sometime.) Use of eminant domain is incompatible with liberty, property rights, and a true free market--most especially when the property is being taken not for true public use, but to be given to another private party.

If The Andersons accepts the property after it has been stolen on their behalf, then their "values" are merely hollow words, not principles which guide their action.

The only course they can take and be true to their proclaimed values is to publically denounce the use (or even the threat) of eminant domain, and state that if such measures are employed they will look elsewhere for another property that can be obtained in a true free-market transaction.

posted by Bandito on Mar 06, 2015 at 01:03:08 pm     #   1 person liked this

Nothing's been stolen from anybody, skippy.

I'm tired of seeing the speculative trashing of a fine family. You should probably stop until the story progresses to a point at which time criticism from the low-dough peanut gallery is even warranted.
Should it ever be warranted.

posted by justread on Mar 06, 2015 at 01:06:31 pm     #  

Xbuckeyex posted at 11:30:26 AM on Mar 06, 2015:

MIJeff - so you don't believe that companies can grow???? Hasn't Promedica already proven how fast they can grow? Andersons is up 20 spots on the fortune 500 list from last year.

Give me a break. Companies don't invest Millions of dollars to build headquarters to stay stagnant.

So I will brag about those jobs - same way Promedica has surpassed Jeep as the largest employer in Northwest Ohio and will continue to widen the gap.

Nice try.

I never said companies cant grow, but moving 400 employees from a building no longer large enough and 100 from the grain silos doesn't make for NEW jobs in Toledo. You make it sound like they are moving to a new building and creating NEW jobs. All I am saying is lets attract some companies from out of the region and then those will be NEW jobs in this local economy. I am sure they will continue to expand and grow, but the single fact they are moving into a different location in the same general area isn't creating NEW jobs.

posted by MIJeff on Mar 06, 2015 at 01:10:46 pm     #  

Bandito posted at 01:03:08 PM on Mar 06, 2015:

Molsonator posted at 10:23:53 AM on Mar 06, 2015:

Huh? Way to jump to conclusions.

There is some really serious ignorance, and ignorance-based prejudice on this thread.

! posted by justread on Mar 06, 2015 at 10:42:30 am #

No, it's called logic. (Something you might want to try employing sometime.) Use of eminant domain is incompatible with liberty, property rights, and a true free market--most especially when the property is being taken not for true public use, but to be given to another private party.

If The Andersons accepts the property after it has been stolen on their behalf, then their "values" are merely hollow words, not principles which guide their action.

The only course they can take and be true to their proclaimed values is to publically denounce the use (or even the threat) of eminant domain, and state that if such measures are employed they will look elsewhere for another property that can be obtained in a true free-market transaction.

Every lease, mortgage and real estate contract has language that discusses eminent domain.

When the leasee/property owner signs the documents they AGREE to eminent domain.

Yes, it may be a bummer when it is actually enforced, but you as a property owner understand its a possibility right off the bat. Way to late to call foul or question integrity when your documents state that you have agreed to eminent domain.

Sorry but they are well within the law of this great country. And if the county agrees that the purchase of that area will be a far greater benefit to the community that an apartment complex then that's just the way it is.

Now if that hurts your feelings - then you have the choice to boycott Andersons.

posted by Xbuckeyex on Mar 06, 2015 at 01:24:38 pm     #   2 people liked this

MIJeff posted at 01:10:46 PM on Mar 06, 2015:
Xbuckeyex posted at 11:30:26 AM on Mar 06, 2015:

MIJeff - so you don't believe that companies can grow???? Hasn't Promedica already proven how fast they can grow? Andersons is up 20 spots on the fortune 500 list from last year.

Give me a break. Companies don't invest Millions of dollars to build headquarters to stay stagnant.

So I will brag about those jobs - same way Promedica has surpassed Jeep as the largest employer in Northwest Ohio and will continue to widen the gap.

Nice try.

I never said companies cant grow, but moving 400 employees from a building no longer large enough and 100 from the grain silos doesn't make for NEW jobs in Toledo. You make it sound like they are moving to a new building and creating NEW jobs. All I am saying is lets attract some companies from out of the region and then those will be NEW jobs in this local economy. I am sure they will continue to expand and grow, but the single fact they are moving into a different location in the same general area isn't creating NEW jobs.

So when Promedica is building a new 3 story facitlity on Monroe Street you don't think they are going to hire NEW employees, when they build a brand new hospital in Adrian you don't think they will need to hire NEW employees, when they break ground for a new urology center at the Toledo Hospital campus in April, you don't believe they will hire NEW employees???

https://promedica.hua.hrsmart.com/hrsmart/ats/JobSearch/index

For kicks and giggles I just went to the promedica website for new jobs. Here is the list of positions available:

Advanced Practice - 32
Business Professional - 33
Clinical Professional - 130
Clinical Support - 124
Information Technology - 17
Internships - 0
Management - 14
Nurses (acute) - 115
Nurses (clinical) - 7
Nurses (long term) - 4
Nurses (other) - 12
Administrative - 35
Operations/Services - 63

So right now Promedica has 486 jobs postings available. But when they build a new headquarters and open up new hospitals they will just relocate people? Come on......

Not much more too say - some people are really out of touch.

posted by Xbuckeyex on Mar 06, 2015 at 01:34:08 pm     #  

And MIJeff I don't mean to come off as a jerk to you, this whole thread is just mind boggling. And yes, Promedica does relocate people but they also hire and bring a ton of new jobs to the area. WAYYYY more than I believe people really realize. You don't get classified as a monopoly by simply relocating people.

I've said my peace in this thread. I love Toledo and for the first time we have a few growing companies that I believe we need to embrace (First Solar being the other). And if it means a few apartment complexes have to go down or a parking garage erected then so be it.

I guarantee cities like Columbus, Cincinnati and Cleveland would gladly knock down some buildings for those 3 companies (plus another possible Jeep expansion.)

posted by Xbuckeyex on Mar 06, 2015 at 01:45:41 pm     #   2 people liked this

"Use of eminant domain is incompatible with liberty, property rights, and a true free market--most especially when the property is being taken not for true public use, but to be given to another private party."

I agree with Bandito on this one. xBuckeye, I am not AT ALL denigrating the Anderson's nor am I questioning whether or not this is an economic boost. Nor do I dispute that eventually the apartment complex owner will come to terms with Anderson's as after all, everything is always for sale.

With that in mind, I have a problem with the government seizing PRIVATE PROPERTY for the "benefit" of everyone else because it is a "NECESSITY."

An apartment complex may seem insignificant to you, but as they say, "Every Englishman's home is his castle."

By your logic, any trampling of rights by the government is "ok" as long as it is for the "good" of the "economy" or kids, or society, or women, etc.

With that, I leave you with a quote:

“Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.” - William Pitt

Yours in Liberty in formerly Fashionable South Toledo,

Dappling2

posted by Dappling2 on Mar 06, 2015 at 01:59:42 pm     #   1 person liked this

Gosh, I almost hope that eminent (experts on the subject, please note the spelling) domain ends up being used in this case so all the railing on about it isn't for nothing.

posted by justread on Mar 06, 2015 at 02:09:29 pm     #   6 people liked this

Seems like there was an eminent domain issue when they were going to clover leaf the expressway there. I could be wrong though.

Honestly, it will all work out. The guy lawyered up to get the most out of it he can. I would do the same.

posted by Molsonator on Mar 06, 2015 at 02:17:16 pm     #   3 people liked this

Xbuckeyex posted at 01:34:08 PM on Mar 06, 2015:
MIJeff posted at 01:10:46 PM on Mar 06, 2015:
Xbuckeyex posted at 11:30:26 AM on Mar 06, 2015:

MIJeff - so you don't believe that companies can grow???? Hasn't Promedica already proven how fast they can grow? Andersons is up 20 spots on the fortune 500 list from last year.

Give me a break. Companies don't invest Millions of dollars to build headquarters to stay stagnant.

So I will brag about those jobs - same way Promedica has surpassed Jeep as the largest employer in Northwest Ohio and will continue to widen the gap.

Nice try.

I never said companies cant grow, but moving 400 employees from a building no longer large enough and 100 from the grain silos doesn't make for NEW jobs in Toledo. You make it sound like they are moving to a new building and creating NEW jobs. All I am saying is lets attract some companies from out of the region and then those will be NEW jobs in this local economy. I am sure they will continue to expand and grow, but the single fact they are moving into a different location in the same general area isn't creating NEW jobs.

So when Promedica is building a new 3 story facitlity on Monroe Street you don't think they are going to hire NEW employees, when they build a brand new hospital in Adrian you don't think they will need to hire NEW employees, when they break ground for a new urology center at the Toledo Hospital campus in April, you don't believe they will hire NEW employees???

https://promedica.hua.hrsmart.com/hrsmart/ats/JobSearch/index

For kicks and giggles I just went to the promedica website for new jobs. Here is the list of positions available:

Advanced Practice - 32
Business Professional - 33

Clinical Professional - 130

Clinical Support - 124

Information Technology - 17

Internships - 0

Management - 14

Nurses (acute) - 115

Nurses (clinical) - 7

Nurses (long term) - 4

Nurses (other) - 12

Administrative - 35

Operations/Services - 63

So right now Promedica has 486 jobs postings available. But when they build a new headquarters and open up new hospitals they will just relocate people? Come on......

Not much more too say - some people are really out of touch.

We were discussing Andersons

posted by MIJeff on Mar 06, 2015 at 05:18:56 pm     #  

That's right. The ProMedica example was part of your "taint no new jobs no ways" discussion, in which you suggested there was no connection whatsoever in terms of job growth when new headquarters are being built. He suggested that in the case of the other big headquarters deal, ProMedica, it certainly appears that this project suggests that it is either caused by, or in response to growth. I see your point, but his rings more true to my corporate experience.

posted by justread on Mar 06, 2015 at 05:37:32 pm     #  

Nothing's been stolen from anybody, skippy.

I'm tired of seeing the speculative trashing of a fine family. You should probably stop until the story progresses to a point at which time criticism from the low-dough peanut gallery is even warranted.
Should it ever be warranted.

! posted by justread on Mar 06, 2015 at 01:06:31 pm

Nothing been's stolen yet, but Lucas County has made it very clear that if the owner doesn't "voluntarily" sell, they will seek to seize it via eminent domain.

That's a threat, and I'm not speculating about their clearly stated intentions.

Nor am I speculating about the Andersons avowed values. Those are clearly stated on their website. And it is a fact that the use of eminent domain is contrary to the principles and values espoused by the Anderson family and the publicly traded company which bears their name.

Have you noticed, justread, how in my response to you I did not engage in name-calling and ad hominems like "skippy" or "the peanut gallery?" You might want to try it out sometime.

More later, tosser.

posted by Bandito on Mar 06, 2015 at 07:47:58 pm     #   1 person liked this

justread posted at 05:37:32 PM on Mar 06, 2015:

That's right. The ProMedica example was part of your "taint no new jobs no ways" discussion, in which you suggested there was no connection whatsoever in terms of job growth when new headquarters are being built. He suggested that in the case of the other big headquarters deal, ProMedica, it certainly appears that this project suggests that it is either caused by, or in response to growth. I see your point, but his rings more true to my corporate experience.

You got those new Promedica jobs in writing? I have heard several numbers discussed for justification for building their own parking garage. I never said new jobs were a bad thing, I never said new jobs might be created when a company moves here and builds a new facility or headquarters. Either of those are a good thing, but to imply that moving to a downtown or city location instantly means there are another 500 - 1000 new jobs is assinine. Attacking me wont change that either. There was nothing in the article on The Blade about the subject matter of The Anderson's about any new jobs merely from building a new headquarters. Again I want to see more companies move here from other state or at least from other counties, those people that drove to Maumee headquarters are still living in the region. Until you start bringing in NEW employers and not just shuffle existing ones around REAL growth is going to be slow.

posted by MIJeff on Mar 06, 2015 at 08:07:14 pm     #   2 people liked this

That is crap. I was original under the impression that the owner wanted to sell. If he or she doesn't, that is too bad on the Anderson's part.

I was told by a commercial real estate guy that Anderson's considered Southwyck. I would be curious to know what swung them away from Southwyck as it seems that the whole thing would have been neater and the city of Toledo would have bent over backwards to accommodate them

! posted by Dappling2 on Mar 05, 2015 at 08:29:37 pm

Dappling2, although it appears the transfer of property has not yet taken place, I did read that Andersons had previously struck a deal to purchase the land from the owners of the Brandywine Country Club.

The land along Salisbury Rd that is under threat is owned by another party, and Lucas County wants to take it to provide better access.

As for what swayed Andersons to go with this property vs others, I would be speculating. But I will say that the Port of Toledo is involved.

posted by Bandito on Mar 06, 2015 at 08:18:23 pm     #  

MIJeff posted at 08:07:14 PM on Mar 06, 2015:
justread posted at 05:37:32 PM on Mar 06, 2015:

That's right. The ProMedica example was part of your "taint no new jobs no ways" discussion, in which you suggested there was no connection whatsoever in terms of job growth when new headquarters are being built. He suggested that in the case of the other big headquarters deal, ProMedica, it certainly appears that this project suggests that it is either caused by, or in response to growth. I see your point, but his rings more true to my corporate experience.

You got those new Promedica jobs in writing? I have heard several numbers discussed for justification for building their own parking garage. I never said new jobs were a bad thing, I never said new jobs might be created when a company moves here and builds a new facility or headquarters. Either of those are a good thing, but to imply that moving to a downtown or city location instantly means there are another 500 - 1000 new jobs is assinine. Attacking me wont change that either. There was nothing in the article on The Blade about the subject matter of The Anderson's about any new jobs merely from building a new headquarters. Again I want to see more companies move here from other state or at least from other counties, those people that drove to Maumee headquarters are still living in the region. Until you start bringing in NEW employers and not just shuffle existing ones around REAL growth is going to be slow.

You seemed unaware of the origin or relevance of his ProMedica example. I was simply trying to connect the dots for you. I may have failed.

posted by justread on Mar 06, 2015 at 08:23:33 pm     #   1 person liked this

I think where things have gone wrong is my original post about companies, instead of the singular word of company regarding strictly The Andersons. And again I believe the additional jobs from Promedica bounced around a lot, as a means of justification for building the parking garage. I still don't think NEW jobs (ones that didn't exist anywhere in the region) are solely created just by building a new building. I am not talking about construction jobs, fast food jobs, service jobs. I am strictly talking about people hired by the company building their new headquarters. In fact there could be a couple jobs lost if the company were in multiple locations due to space by eliminating duplication, like receptionists for multiple buildings, building maintenance crew for several locations, etc.
Again this is only my thoughts on it, I really hope they do grow a lot, faster the better, but strictly building a new building doesn't suddenly create a demand for more employees, if they were to open more stores, new facilities etc. Maybe they already had plans for that as well I didn't research the growth plan of The Andersons, even if it were public.

posted by MIJeff on Mar 06, 2015 at 08:45:16 pm     #  

toledoramblingman posted at 07:38:31 AM on Mar 06, 2015:

Toledo and Lucas County are democrat and union utopias for corporate welfare. If it adds one job, give the corporation whatever they want.

Big oil and other evil giant corporations should come to Toledo and study from Democrats on how to effectively get corporate welfare without upsetting the democrat voter base.

Why would Big Oil & Gas go there when there are states like Oklahoma and Texas that are giving over $300 million in tax breaks per year and only billing an effective tax rate of about 2% (Oklahoma) to retain them?

A lot seem to be out of touch to think corporate handouts don't happen anywhere else - they do...this is business as usual.

Now the one thing we don't have down here is the intense border fighting between cities in the same metro area. Namely because there isn't any city level income tax. Everything here is driven by sales taxes. They will fight tooth and nail for a new Costco, Whole Foods, Trader Joes, etc...but office jobs they are a bit less aggressive on. However, there is an exception to that and I don't want to sway back to Promedica too much. Investment to get Promedica downtown is no more than an investment to get the area growing again. A good sized operation like that will help make the location around there more favorable for other businesses - especially retail. Then if it all goes according to plan, you start a chain reaction of other businesses following suit. So in the end, Toledo should absolutely be doing what they can to attract any and everyone possible. There is however going to be a limit until the tax situation in Ohio changes to something more similar to those boom locations.

With Andersons it is a bit different. They are jumping from Maumee to Monclova. If anything it is helping to ensure that area doesn't take a bit hit by losing a large corporate resident which can impact the other businesses in the area. That doesn't mean do whatever it takes, but in today's world - communities are almost forced to because someone will offer the world to a new business.

Now to the building owner who apparently is refusing to sell. I'm would guess this is just posturing to get more money. Any sensible business person would be doing the same thing.

posted by JustaSooner on Mar 06, 2015 at 11:37:46 pm     #  

If we were so great here Daimler might have located their new plant for building vans here or in this general region, you know all that experienced labor force and all that. Instead they are going to the same state Toledo Scale went to, SC.

posted by MIJeff on Mar 07, 2015 at 12:50:43 am     #  

Every lease, mortgage and real estate contract has language that discusses eminent domain.

When the leasee/property owner signs the documents they AGREE to eminent domain.

I drafted a ton of leases when I was actively practicing, and you are completely misrepresenting the eminent domain language typically included in a lease. The eminent domain language (usually) is simply stating that if the government exercises eminent domain that either:

1) if all of the property is taken so that the tenant can no longer use it, the lease is terminated and neither landlord or tenant have further obligations under the lease or

2) if a part of the land is taken but the tenant can still use what is left for their purposes, the rent will be adjusted to reflect the reduction in leased premises available to the tenant.

In no way, when a landlord and tenant enter in to a lease are they agreeing to eminent domain. They are simply saying what happens if eminent domain is initiated against the property.

My guess is that its possible the landlord entered in to fresh lease agreements with one or more of the tenants and the only way to break them is to pull eminent domain. If you are on a month-to-month, the landlord could terminate the lease quickly and easily; if there was a fresh 1 year lease, the year may be putting it out farther than they want to sit on the project.

posted by MsArcher on Mar 07, 2015 at 06:26:33 am     #   2 people liked this

I periodically maintain some leases for a guy I do some work for here is what he has written in his general leases.
APPROPRIATION OR CONDEMNATION BY GOVERNMENTAL AUTHORITY: If the Premises shall be appropriated or condemned by governmental authorities, each party shall be entitled to seek its respective remedy as provided by law.

posted by MIJeff on Mar 07, 2015 at 12:34:53 pm     #  

My guess is that its possible the landlord entered in to fresh lease agreements with one or more of the tenants and the only way to break them is to pull eminent domain. If you are on a month-to-month, the landlord could terminate the lease quickly and easily; if there was a fresh 1 year lease, the year may be putting it out farther than they want to sit on the project.

! posted by MrsArcher on Mar 07, 2015 at 06:26:33 am

All the reports say that the owner doesn't want to sell and it certainly looks like they plan to fight this in the courts if necessary.

So I don't think whether any of the tenants are on a fresh lease vs month-to-month is influencing the owner or prompting the threat to seize the property via eminent domain. If the owner was willing to sell, then the county would buy the property and then it would be their problem to deal with the tenants on leases.

In addition to the immorality of Lucas County (with the Andersons as an accomplice), what annoys me about this is that it is not necessary. Convenient, perhaps, but not necessary.

There is already access from Salisbury Rd to the Andersons site via a public street named Brandyway Lane, which runs between the two properties owned by Brandy Wine Estates Limited (6400 and 6538 Salisbury). This street is said to be inadequate to handle the additional traffic generated by Andersons. However, it could be widened (by purchasing a portion of the owners land from the two parcels). 6400 would lose some of its parking lot.

Alternatively, they could provide access for Andersons by purchasing (or stealing via eminent theft) the western portion of 6538's parcel.

Either of these two options would provide the additional capacity and access needed, while leaving the owner's properties largely intact.

And of course, since the golf course property has direct access to Manley Road, that could be the entry to Andersons new HQ, without messing with the property owners on Salisbury at all.

However, this is Toledo, "Where there are no other options."

More later...

posted by Bandito on Mar 07, 2015 at 07:04:11 pm     #  

I believe the 5th Amendment of the Constitution deals with this so why don't we move along?

posted by Molsonator on Mar 07, 2015 at 07:50:58 pm     #  

The Andersons are probably interested in creating a simple access point for workers and clients - some of whom are likely from out of town. Aligning the intersection at Salisbury, which is staggered, to four-way should be benefical for traffic flow in the area.

It might be rough for the people who have to move. I guess it's in the name of progress and the greater benefit. A century ago, an old boarding house or livery stable might have had to go in order for downtown's first skyscrapers to be built. Hopefully, the building's owner gets a decent price.

It's interesting to see how the area has changed. Salisbury / Dussel used to be a two lane road over the interstate. Brandywine and some homes went up in the middle of forests and farms. The I-475 exit was added in the 80s and a decade later things took off. I wouldn't be surprised if the remaining apartments on Salisbury are eventually sold and razed for commercial with the high traffic counts on that stretch. Andersons and Dana will soon to be down the street from one other, and that might be enough to create the demand for a high profile hotel - something different from the extended stays and 'econo lodges' nearby.

posted by mixman on Mar 07, 2015 at 08:38:00 pm     #