Toledo Talk

Bike paths coming

i have heard, granted 3rd hand, that some major improvements are planned for the bike path system around the city.

1 - bancroft is going to be changed to one lane each way with a center turn lane AND bike lanes specifically put in place... i would guess this means painted lanes primarily.

2 - starting at jermain park and the auburn ave bridge over I475, a new path along the creek will go under central ave and precede through the old jeep plant property up to cherry/collingwood and then follow manhatten to meet up with the trail at summit street.

3 - the abandoned rail line along douglas up to general mills and down to river road will be completed. the bridge at the river is not structurally secure so that can not be completed.

if true very good news for the city and those several groups who will benefit from such an amenity. anyone with additional info?

created by enjoyeverysandwich on Jul 11, 2014 at 05:04:08 pm     Comments: 117

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Comments ... #

That's great news for Toledo if it's true! I'll ask around and see if I can drum up some more info.

posted by upso on Jul 11, 2014 at 05:41:30 pm     #  

Those routes seem like they are on this plan -

http://toledo.oh.gov/media/101888/2014-Bike-Path-Plan.pdf

posted by ifXthenWhyNot on Jul 11, 2014 at 07:39:50 pm     #  

Would love to see any of these come to pass. The abandoned "backside rail" along Douglas has been under discussion for at least 6+ years now. $$$ millions more needed to move forward and get it paved; kinda bumpy as is - even on a gravel grinder. Progress takes too long.

posted by bam2 on Jul 11, 2014 at 08:36:05 pm     #  

what a waste of tax payer dollars

posted by bucknut on Jul 11, 2014 at 09:21:40 pm     #   2 people liked this

Hey it appeals to the 10% that want bike paths. I would think there would be plenty of other things that money can be spent on that benefits everyone.

posted by MIJeff on Jul 11, 2014 at 10:03:04 pm     #  

bucknut posted at 09:21:40 PM on Jul 11, 2014:

what a waste of tax payer dollars

If you want to turn the community around, you also have to do quality of life projects. Granted additional funding needs to go towards roads and police as well to get probably the two biggest issues under control. However, you need to raise quality of life and also bring up property values to increase revenue and also reduce crime. It is all connected.

posted by JustaSooner on Jul 11, 2014 at 10:04:55 pm     #   8 people liked this

I'm an avid biker and a one that uses his bike to commute and do errands. That said my hobbies and interest should not cost you money. Let the voters decide. I do not want to pay for other people's children to go swimming and you should not pay for me to ride my bike. These are not Government responsibilities!!!! Take care of more important matters rather then entertaining people!

posted by Danneskjold on Jul 11, 2014 at 10:40:13 pm     #   4 people liked this

I'll go with what my Grandmother said in the 1980's when they were building the bike path along Sylvania Avenue out to Holland Sylvania Rd. What a waste of money, only rich will be able to use it, the rest of us are too busy working for a living or too old. I live out that way now and travel down Sylvania Avenue to Talmadge and never see any one riding a bike on it which remains me of what she said back then. I hardly ever see anyone using the bike path that crosses McCord, between Central and Sylvania also. Again, how does it benefit the majority of us.

posted by Nyse on Jul 12, 2014 at 12:20:55 am     #   1 person liked this

Man alive, those that are anti bike lanes sound CRAZY to me. In chicago, where I currently call home, there are bike lanes EVERYWHERE, and the lanes are FULL of bikers. Like, frankly, an insane amount of bikers.

It's not a luxury to have bike lanes or ride bikes. It's a smart option for a lot of people, and Toledo's current infrastructure doesn't allow for it. If the city's roads actually accommodated for it, you'd see more people considering relocating around the city based on their travel needs.

It's mildly hilarious to me that people would want Toledo's mobile infrastructure to only accommodate one type of vehicle.

"What a waste of money, only rich will be able to use it, the rest of us are too busy working for a living or too old."

What a bizarre statement. Bikes are for everyone. Cars are only for those with money. Toledo (and all other cities) should be focusing on infrastructure that accommodates ALL forms of legal transport.

posted by upso on Jul 12, 2014 at 12:38:06 am     #   11 people liked this

Say what you want, but there is very little use of the infrastructure here already. More to maintain that is used very little.

posted by Nyse on Jul 12, 2014 at 01:14:35 am     #   1 person liked this

I think a lot of what is missed is actually paying attention to trends in transportation. Kids are waiting longer and longer to get their drivers license and holding off on getting a car. There is a definite trend in many areas to shift back towards higher density developments and the transportation options that come with it.

Here in the land of sprawl-topia, nearly every new street being constructed is now including bike lanes as part of the design. My city is around 120,000 people spread out over 110 square miles - larger than the city of Toledo. There is a definite push for that. Now Toledo has a problem of not enough revenue coming in to fund infrastructure needs. However, that is happening everywhere. They key is to incorporate bike lane needs in with existing roads to provide the benefits of a newly paved road and bike lanes.

Though I can understand why people in the area would find this wasteful. When I look at property tax bills there is a insane how much extra crap is on there. Many of the levies on there should be supported by sales tax funds instead of property tax.

posted by JustaSooner on Jul 12, 2014 at 02:52:41 am     #  

Danneskjold posted at 10:40:13 PM on Jul 11, 2014:

I'm an avid biker and a one that uses his bike to commute and do errands. That said my hobbies and interest should not cost you money. Let the voters decide. I do not want to pay for other people's children to go swimming and you should not pay for me to ride my bike. These are not Government responsibilities!!!! Take care of more important matters rather then entertaining people!

Well said

posted by bucknut on Jul 12, 2014 at 07:12:04 am     #  

Obviously, the Toledo area is known for producing automobiles. Maybe people around here enjoy driving their cars, trucks, vans, and SUVs. But this area also seems to enjoy motorcycles, so getting close to that two-wheel idea.

posted by jr on Jul 12, 2014 at 07:28:25 am     #  

I would rather pay for bike paths than imagination station, which should be supported by admissions, memberships and corporate partnerships.

I find the conversation interesting. Especially the comparisons. Here; therefore, there.

"I visited a small town in Arizona. They rode horses to the bar, therefore, if we want to have quality of life and attract young people, we need hitching posts. Anti-hitching post people are part of the problem."

posted by justread on Jul 12, 2014 at 08:05:16 am     #   7 people liked this

Additional bike paths are a luxury that the city cannot afford right now. The current bike paths are underutilized now - only a small percentage of our inhabitants use them on nice days - even fewer use them on rainy, snowy and very cold days. Most workplaces do not have showers to use to get rid of the sweat from a long commute (and there is the additional problem of getting fresh, unwrinkled clothes to the workplace). Even with a basket, you can't haul a lot of groceries on a bike. Instead of another tax for more bike paths, I would rather have the bikers who enjoy the paths purchase bike racks for their cars so they can get their bikes safely to the paths we have now.

posted by Mike21 on Jul 12, 2014 at 08:47:55 am     #   4 people liked this

Mike21 posted at 08:47:55 AM on Jul 12, 2014:

Additional bike paths are a luxury that the city cannot afford right now. The current bike paths are underutilized now - only a small percentage of our inhabitants use them on nice days - even fewer use them on rainy, snowy and very cold days. Most workplaces do not have showers to use to get rid of the sweat from a long commute (and there is the additional problem of getting fresh, unwrinkled clothes to the workplace). Even with a basket, you can't haul a lot of groceries on a bike. Instead of another tax for more bike paths, I would rather have the bikers who enjoy the paths purchase bike racks for their cars so they can get their bikes safely to the paths we have now.

I don't disagree that separate bike paths should probably be avoiding until other issues can be addressed. However, there is nothing that says you can't add them to existing streets as repaving takes place on those streets.

posted by JustaSooner on Jul 12, 2014 at 12:30:11 pm     #  

Definitely a poor choice with the city streets in horrendous shape.

However, none of us should be shocked by the lack of common sense involved.

A similar move would be buying new carpeting for a house with dozens of bowling ball sized holes throughout the roof.

posted by 6th_Floor on Jul 12, 2014 at 12:40:49 pm     #   1 person liked this

ifX .... thanks for the link ... i had not come across that

danneskjold... do you only bike on private property? as an avid biker i am guessing you bike regularly on the univesity trail or the couple out in monclova area ... is that correct ? and tell you what... all public roads that people bike and drive for that matter are paid for by somebodies taxes so ... taxes are supporting your biking habit.

bike trails are not something that private citizens realistically can do.

everything that government does is meant to be used by every person. because you go past a trail and nobody is there at that moment does not mean it is not used nor that it is not used enough.

places that have the best quality of life, retain or increase property values best, attract the best most satisfying and best paying jobs go to places that have the best amenities. agree we have terrible pols around here that are difficult to trust with our money but the reason we dont have a good tax base and now bad infrastructure is in part because we did not invest in the city all along.

upso... very well said. safe travels

posted by enjoyeverysandwich on Jul 12, 2014 at 01:17:09 pm     #   8 people liked this

"somebody's taxes"... sorry

posted by enjoyeverysandwich on Jul 12, 2014 at 01:18:34 pm     #  

"NOT meant to be used"....arrrrrggg. jr, i need an edit function!!

posted by enjoyeverysandwich on Jul 12, 2014 at 01:20:16 pm     #   3 people liked this

enjoyeverysandwich writes:

“danneskjold... do you only bike on private property?”

Answer – With the amount of government debt out there my actions really do not matter when it comes to increasing spending does it? It’s like a family that travels every year but is now deeply, deeply in debt. The kids say “but we did before…” You have to draw a line in the sand, make hard choices and spend below your allowance until you have a reserve. You can’t continue spending on non-essentials otherwise the essentials will soon become luxuries. As debt mounts the interest and payments on fulfilling that debt take money away from funds that could have been spent enriching your city if more prudence was maintained all along. The advice I would give to a son who was deeply in credit card debt but considering spending on a non-essential item would be – “Do not spend a single dime on anything non-essential until you have paid off all your loans. Save some money, get in the black and then (and only then!) you might consider a frivolity once you have a reserve. Why should our trusted, elected government officials not follow the same strategy?

posted by Danneskjold on Jul 12, 2014 at 05:55:40 pm     #  

"Why should our trusted, elected government officials not follow the same strategy?" - because they are not spending their own money and they don't have to repay it personally...

posted by Mike21 on Jul 12, 2014 at 06:36:25 pm     #  

Mike21 posted at 06:36:25 PM on Jul 12, 2014:

"Why should our trusted, elected government officials not follow the same strategy?" - because they are not spending their own money and they don't have to repay it personally...

And........because the non-thinking electorate of this county responds largely to the campaign promises of the crooks in office vs. what they actually do and re-elects them over and over and over.......

You want to improve the quality of life of this region? Stop electing a bunch of political hacks who respond like puppets on a string when the unions or some well connected crony capitalist snaps their fingers.

Bike paths are a great idea. Just as soon as the existing infrastructure (roads) are made passable for those of us who actually work for a living and pay the freight for such things. Until I can get back and forth to work and traverse around the city without feeling like I'm driving on a washboard all the while still dodging potholes, your bike paths will have to wait. Until we get our police and fire departments staffed to the appropriate levels, your bike paths will have to wait.

Danneskjold is EXACTLY right. We've spent so much money we don't have on non-essential "stuff" that our essentials have become luxuries. It just drives me nuts that people can't understand this. Why do you think the infrastructure in this country is in the shape it is? It has much less to do with lower gas tax revenue due to more fuel efficient cars and whatever other BS your gum't likes to feed you. It has a great deal to do with the fact that this country is rapidly becoming a massive welfare state. Fewer and fewer contributing to the pot and more taking from it. It really isn't too difficult to understand if you have the courage to do so.

posted by Foodie on Jul 13, 2014 at 07:07:51 am     #   3 people liked this

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/7/11/bike-lanes-study.html

posted by SavageFred on Jul 13, 2014 at 07:21:58 am     #   1 person liked this

How much does it cost to put a bike lane on a street?

posted by Nolan_Rosenkrans on Jul 13, 2014 at 08:57:13 am     #  

Nolan_Rosenkrans posted at 08:57:13 AM on Jul 13, 2014:

How much does it cost to put a bike lane on a street?

Probably not much relatively speaking. However, its the "oh, that only costs X and this will only cost Y" mentality that has brought us to this point. We're pi$$ing away BORROWED money on wants, not needs.
Do people really believe that a bike path is going to draw more businesses and create population growth than properly staffed police and fire and drivable roads?

posted by Foodie on Jul 13, 2014 at 09:04:17 am     #   1 person liked this

More than it probably costs to first fix the potholes, Nolan.

So, instead of appeasing the small number of people who may occasionally use the bike paths, Toledo's roads should be restored beyond their current horrible condition.

posted by 6th_Floor on Jul 13, 2014 at 10:26:04 am     #   2 people liked this

Foodie posted at 09:04:17 AM on Jul 13, 2014:
Nolan_Rosenkrans posted at 08:57:13 AM on Jul 13, 2014:

How much does it cost to put a bike lane on a street?

Probably not much relatively speaking. However, its the "oh, that only costs X and this will only cost Y" mentality that has brought us to this point. We're pi$$ing away BORROWED money on wants, not needs.
Do people really believe that a bike path is going to draw more businesses and create population growth than properly staffed police and fire and drivable roads?

What about when bike lanes are included in a project to repair roads? The Bancroft bike lanes is being added as part of a rebuild of the street.
And some people use bikes as their primary means of transportation, making bike infrastructure as important to them as the rest of the road.

posted by Nolan_Rosenkrans on Jul 13, 2014 at 10:27:04 am     #  

If only cities that had addressed all infrastructure issues before they built bike lanes, then no one would have bike lanes. Does everyone in Toledo bike? No. If there were bike lanes, more people would. Cleveland and Columbus have been extremely aggressive about laying out a bicycling infrastructure-guess what? Tons of cyclists, especially commuters (albeit it, mostly 3 seasons). In fact, Cleveland has passed local legislation that compel it to add dedicated bike lanes any time they redo a road. Hey, that would mean a Douglas road bike path included in the current constriction. Cincinnati? No commuting bike paths and likewise, a much lower involvement in bikes. Successful cities are successful because of smart investment in a number of things, including quality of life. Want to grow? This is something we need to do. Don't understand? Get on a bike in a bicycle friendly city and your worldview will change.

posted by ahmahler on Jul 13, 2014 at 12:05:54 pm     #   5 people liked this

If the width of the road stays the same during a resurfacing project and a dedicated bike lane is added, what is lost?

posted by bucknut on Jul 13, 2014 at 01:38:06 pm     #  

The cleveland ordinance is called the complete and green streets ordinance. It's been very successful and there are different allowance for different situations. Here is the original plan in detail if you're interested, and cleveland has just elected to expand it with faster timetable and broader scope. You may have heard about the rebound of cleveland. It didn't start this year, this has been in the works for almost 15 years.

http://www.sustainablecleveland.org/celebration-topics/2016-sustainable-mobility/complete-and-green-streets/

posted by ahmahler on Jul 13, 2014 at 02:11:30 pm     #  

Great news.

This is exactly the kind of thing Toledo needs to be doing. Making the city more livable for the people already here, and a hell of a lot more attractive to people who might consider moving here.

Hopefully this is only the beginning.

posted by weasel on Jul 13, 2014 at 10:26:42 pm     #   1 person liked this

bucknut posted at 01:38:06 PM on Jul 13, 2014:

If the width of the road stays the same during a resurfacing project and a dedicated bike lane is added, what is lost?

Usually the lanes are restriped a bit narrower.

Obviously, Secor btwn Dorr and Central wouldn't be a prime candidate for a bike lane; however, the vast majority of major city roads in Toledo are wide enough to accommodate the addition of bike lanes without affecting existing traffic.

One word of caution--allowing bike-laned roads to fall into the serious disrepair the ordinary roads did this winter opens the city up to major liability claims if someone gets injured. One of our pothole swimming pools opens up in a bike lane and someone inadvertently gets thrown and injured, it's damn near guaranteed the city will be sued for damages.

In a weird way, because of the liability threat, bike-laned roads might lead to better overall road maintenance. Unless the city likes paying out $$$$....

posted by oldhometown on Jul 13, 2014 at 11:45:38 pm     #  

To consider- As we turn to more fuel efficient vehicles there is less revenue generated by the gas taxes. More bikes even less revenue. Where will the money come from to maintain what we have?

posted by fred on Jul 14, 2014 at 05:04:11 am     #  

"More than it probably costs to first fix the potholes, Nolan."

I'm completely in support that the pot holes need to be fixed, but at the same time, it's not like this is a car in need of a tuneup after passing 100K miles. Pot holes are an ever present problem. We'll fix them this year, and they'll be here again next. It's a necessary evil of paved roads with thousands of heavy vehicles traversing them. Making it easier for more people to commute via bike would result in fewer cars on the roadways, meaning less wear-and-tear each year, resulting in fewer pot holes needing repaired in the long-term. From a business standpoint, there are two solutions to fixing the pot hole problem: increase taxes to pay for all the repairs, or find a way to reduce the number of cars on the road, thereby reducing the number of repairs needed. I think bike paths/lanes are a pretty simple solution to the latter.

posted by Johio83 on Jul 14, 2014 at 09:11:33 am     #   2 people liked this

And also, I don't think this should be looked at as something that only benefits hobbyists or rich people with spare time to go for a ride or whatever. The primary function of these would be to connect the paths around the city, so that there are more opportunities for citizens to get from point A to point B without using a car.

I'd say the leisure aspect, while certainly there, should only be viewed as a byproduct, not the purpose. Roadways get used all the time by Sunday drivers who are just out to take a ride in their car. But in no way does that mean that the primary function of the roads is for people out taking a joy ride, just like bike lanes aren't primarily intended for people looking to get a little ride in during their downtime.

posted by Johio83 on Jul 14, 2014 at 09:19:00 am     #   2 people liked this

....oh, this again.

Dear Toledoans:

Yes, you can fix the roads AND install bike lanes without sacrificing quality. Yes, bike lanes DO improve the quality of life for all residents. Yes, bike lanes often improve property values. Yes, bike lanes DO attract young people to a city. Yes, the poor will use the lanes a lot. Yes, a good cycling infrastructure is shown in study after study to improve the health outcomes in a city. Yes, reducing the number of cars on the road will help the infrastructure and traffic patterns.

Sincerely -
A guy who is getting sick of this discussion.

PS: If anyone wants bike commuting / travel tips, lemme know. Happy to help plan safe(ish) routes and such.

posted by endcycle on Jul 14, 2014 at 09:39:24 am     #   4 people liked this

Oh and: i'm reposting the link that SavageFred posted above - take the time to read it: http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/7/11/bike-lanes-study.html

posted by endcycle on Jul 14, 2014 at 09:41:52 am     #  

I Love bike paths. I use them all the time for leisure biking and running. I would love to see more.

I just don't buy Toledo, OH becoming a bike friendly place. This is a rust belt town with a rust belt mentality. We love our cars. It rains and gets cold here. Most significant, we don't have a large enough young professional population that will drive this (pun intended).

The study cited used Auckland, NZ as the model. Look at the climate of Auckland. I want to move there with my bike right now.

Please show me a study of a city with similar demographics and climate to Toledo. Seriously, I want to be wrong. I'd love to see it happen. Dayton? Akron? Cleveland? How is the bike movement in those cities?

Yes, I know I sound like the typical Debbie Downer Toledoan. Please give me real hope beyond "if we build it they will come".

posted by JoeyGee on Jul 14, 2014 at 10:26:30 am     #  

Johio: Pot holes are an ever present problem. We'll fix them this year, and they'll be here again next.

To clarify for you, it isn't merely potholes that need repaired along Toledo's roadways. Because Toledo has been wasting money on silly and raiding the CIP funds, now it's a crisis.

If you and others here really believe that bike paths (which hardly anybody will use anyway) wavering through a few parts of town are more important to maintain residents, attract and maintain businesses here, and increase "quality of life" than AT LEAST average roadways, then the entire lot of you bike path fans are crackpots.

posted by 6th_Floor on Jul 14, 2014 at 10:27:43 am     #   1 person liked this

JOhio: And also, I don't think this should be looked at as something that only benefits hobbyists or rich people with spare time to go for a ride or whatever.

In case you haven't ever bothered to look around, there aren't many "rich people" living in Toledo in decades. You could create a bike path along every single Toledo street and I doubt many wealthy people would relocate here.

Even better, humor us with an estimate of how many hobbyists and rich people or anybody else that will be peddling around the bike path routes mentioned in this thread.

Cherry and Collingwood, Jermain Park, The old Jeep site? Definitely hubs of capital and commerce.

If people need affordable transportation, they can utilize TARTA...another one of Toledo's money-draining "quality of life" amenities.

Bike path construction in a city as broke as Toledo is a foolish idea, but that hasn't ever stopped Toledo.

posted by 6th_Floor on Jul 14, 2014 at 10:41:46 am     #  

Joey, you want to know cities that have rain, snow AND bike culture. Check out Portland, OR; Seattle, Boston, and the number one bike city in the US is Minneapolis. People will ride in cold weather if they feel safe doing it. Those cities I noted have some money and can afford to be forward thinking. Why should we be using giant gas sucking cars to run an errand that is a half-mile from home? Because we don't have the option to easily and safely ride a bike.

posted by MaryCooksalot on Jul 14, 2014 at 10:46:21 am     #  

I'm looking for cities with comparable climate AND demographics. As you pointed out, those cities have money and are forward thinking. Toledo qualifies as neither.

Seriously, I'm.not looking to debate. I am interested in cites similar to Toledo that have a strong bike commuting element. Show me and I'll shut up and join your fight.

posted by JoeyGee on Jul 14, 2014 at 10:57:34 am     #  

JoeyGee-as mentioned previously-Cleveland http://www.frontdoor.com/photos/the-10-greatest-cycling-cities-in-america and Columbus have thriving, growing bicycling cities-Cleveland lands on many top 10 lists for best and most bike friendly cities. Also, Minneapolis (considered the best in the country!), Chicago, Indianapolis, Pittsburgh, St Louis, Milwaukee, Madison, WI, Grand Rapids, Ann Arbor are all on the list of top 50 best cities for bicyclists. And yes-Dayton has great trails, taking full advantage of the Miami river with beautiful views for miles. In fact, I think it's the best thing about Dayton. That's the Rust Belt List-I suppose Detroit and Allentown are missing, but I know Detroit is working on it.

6th-You have to start getting the "this or that" idea out of your head and start thinking "both at the same time"

posted by ahmahler on Jul 14, 2014 at 10:57:45 am     #   1 person liked this

Joey-you commented after I posted the above list-Since Toledo is smaller than many of those listed cities, it's tough to find the Apples to Apples version-would you accept Louisville? Its the same size. Grand Rapids, A2 and Madison are all smaller. Dayton is similar in many respects.

posted by ahmahler on Jul 14, 2014 at 11:00:47 am     #  

6th floor-so-"circle the wagons" is your strategy for the future?

posted by ahmahler on Jul 14, 2014 at 11:02:38 am     #  

Dayton is likely closest and I'll give you that.

The others are progressive college towns. GR is definitely a progressive town that we could learn a lot from.

I hope I'm wrong and Toledo can adopt bike commuting. It would be a nice change.

posted by JoeyGee on Jul 14, 2014 at 11:12:02 am     #  

When I still worked downtown, I had considered biking to work a few times a week both to save gas money and have a built-in workout for health/fitness purposes.

The only thing that held me back was not having a bike-safe connector from the university trail to downtown. I could have safely biked from my home as far as UT, but I was concerned about my route from there.

I do understand the concerns of spending money when the current roads are in bad condition, of course. I don't think this is the time to spend a lot of money on new bike lanes, but if there was a way to cost-effectively add them during existing construction projects that might work.

posted by mom2 on Jul 14, 2014 at 11:23:16 am     #  

6th: "JOhio: And also, I don't think this should be looked at as something that only benefits hobbyists or rich people with spare time to go for a ride or whatever.

In case you haven't ever bothered to look around, there aren't many "rich people" living in Toledo in decades. You could create a bike path along every single Toledo street and I doubt many wealthy people would relocate here.

Even better, humor us with an estimate of how many hobbyists and rich people or anybody else that will be peddling around the bike path routes mentioned in this thread."

6th, I was responding to what earlier posters were saying. Nyse said "What a waste of money, only rich will be able to use it, the rest of us are too busy working for a living or too old." and Danneskjold said "my hobbies and interest should not cost you money." and "Take care of more important matters rather then entertaining people!"

posted by Johio83 on Jul 14, 2014 at 11:29:11 am     #  

I guess I just view bike lanes and bike paths as two different things. Bike paths can at times be a significant expense, which would mean making choices about what to spend money on. Bike lanes seem to be a negligible expense.

posted by Nolan_Rosenkrans on Jul 14, 2014 at 11:34:55 am     #   2 people liked this

Ahmahler: In fact, I think it's the best thing about Dayton.

If bike trails/paths are the best things Dayton has to offer, it really has fallen on difficult times.

posted by 6th_Floor on Jul 14, 2014 at 11:50:13 am     #  

6th-did I miss the era when Dayton was a great city? Ironically-they too have a 5/3 field and art Museum they're quite proud of.

Nolan-good call-for clarification sake

posted by ahmahler on Jul 14, 2014 at 12:23:13 pm     #  

I guess it comes down to preferences, about 90% of Toledo residents wont use bike lanes or paths, but I guess you can justify spending the money if it's for the children.

posted by MIJeff on Jul 14, 2014 at 01:15:31 pm     #  

Nolan_Rosenkrans posted at 11:34:55 AM on Jul 14, 2014:

I guess I just view bike lanes and bike paths as two different things. Bike paths can at times be a significant expense, which would mean making choices about what to spend money on. Bike lanes seem to be a negligible expense.

Agreed. Adding bike lanes to existing roads and/or when roads are re-paved - fine. Good idea.

That said, you'll never get me using them with the all the idiot drivers this town has.

And this "Yes, the poor will use the lanes a lot" is just laughable.

JoeyGee is right on the $$ - Toledo is simply not a cycling kind of town to any great extent. The enthusiasts will use the bike paths/lanes but the overwhelming majority in this area will not. Have you looked around at Toledo's population? There's a reason we're so high on the list of America's fattest cities. You really think these folks are clamoring for places to ride a bike?

Bike lanes/routes/paths work in higher population metro areas largely due to just that - higher population numbers. Toledo is a far, far cry from being anything resembling Cleveland, Columbus, Minneapolis, Pittsburgh, or even Metro Detroit for that matter.

posted by Foodie on Jul 14, 2014 at 01:30:57 pm     #   1 person liked this

Sylvania, Ohio is very popular with the cyclists. Unfortunately, they tend to ride in packs, taking up too much roadway (Brint Rd going west towards Metamora) with the amount of vehicle traffic. I see the bike paths similar to the City pools......time to prioritize

posted by Hoops on Jul 14, 2014 at 01:41:37 pm     #  

Until you have actually committed to commuting on a bicycle, especially in Northwest Ohio it is hard to understand the amount of time and expense this requires and other challenges. You will not, I repeat will not save money unless you sell your car outright and commit to public transportation 5 months a year and the additional two to three months a year that are the days that you can’t ride due to logistical plans or weather. Over the course of a year - all things considered you might end up riding one out of every four days if you are fortunate.

$200-$700 for the bicycle is not your last expense. You will need to outfit it with good, solid bags or saddlebags if you plan to take it to work or grocery shop. You will not be able to get more than a bag of groceries home even if you have a retractable basket like I do. You will get flat tires which will require you to have the know-how to repair them on the spot or call someone to pick you up and have your flat repaired at a place like Reggie’s bike shop for a fee (and your bike might not always fit in their car so you will likely have a bike rack on your own vehicle. This is an additional expense. Good locks and chains, maintenance items such as chain lube… all extra work and expense. Do you work at a job where you can get sweaty going to work or coming home? Will this require a shower when you get to work or a change of clothes? You will need a good, quality made helmet. You will need spare time, lots of spare time to get any benefit and usage over the long term. I am semi-retired so this is not a challenge for me but I do not think I could have had any benefit from biking when I was working full time. Walking around local grocery stores I do not see a population that is ready to make these commitments.

Are the present bike trails such as Wildwood or the Wabash Trail overcrowded? No. So for people who just want a little exercise there are already underutilized assets available. To try to take this to a different level such as commuting will not work - it is a fantasy based on clouded, unrealistic romantic visions you see on movies or in brochures.

Here’s a quick reference – Expect to spend at least $1,000.00 on a good commuting rig and accessories. Not a huge expense but that is about 10,000 miles worth of gas for most cars and you still have flat tires, replacement costs and other items you will end up paying for. Your biggest car expense is depreciation and that will not change much whether you have a bike or not.

Your expenses are not the only math. For the city and taxpayers putting in bike lanes etc does not end that expense. It is not a one shot cost. I do not know the cost to maintain the trail that extends from the University of Toledo through Wildwood out to Sylvania but there are frequently crew out there trimming trees and making repairs. Even if you use an existing trees expect local officials and unions to capitalize on repair… overtime and the like.

I do enjoy riding but I am a realist. Very few people will take the time and make the effort – very few!

posted by Danneskjold on Jul 14, 2014 at 02:05:11 pm     #   1 person liked this

I spent 50 bucks at the coop for my bike and commute to work often. It helps that I work downtown and live close to downtown, but then one of the reasons I bought in the OWE was so I could bike to work and when out and about.

posted by Nolan_Rosenkrans on Jul 14, 2014 at 02:38:40 pm     #  

Who is the average bike commuter? Distance and routes to work make it nearly impossible for me. Even if I was closer, I often have to pickup/drop off my kids, run errands, etc on my way to and from. I have no shower at work and really no.place to keep a bike.

To me, it seems like there is a very narrow demographic to whom this makes sense.

What is the demographic?

posted by JoeyGee on Jul 14, 2014 at 02:50:56 pm     #  

JoeyGee posted at 02:50:56 PM on Jul 14, 2014:

Who is the average bike commuter? Distance and routes to work make it nearly impossible for me. Even if I was closer, I often have to pickup/drop off my kids, run errands, etc on my way to and from. I have no shower at work and really no.place to keep a bike.

To me, it seems like there is a very narrow demographic to whom this makes sense.

What is the demographic?

Well, I commute by bike with some regularity - I have teenagers, I work downtown, and I live in Maumee. My total commute is around 9-10 miles each direction (depending on route), and it usually takes me 35-40 minutes depending on traffic and wind.

When I drive, it usually takes me 20 minutes in morning traffic. Not much of a difference really.

I also have several coworkers who say they'd commute for sure if there was a safe infrastructure in place from the suburbs to downtown.

posted by endcycle on Jul 14, 2014 at 02:56:40 pm     #  

There are a handful of stats that are National-1) Bicycle commuting has basically doubled in the last 10 years, with several (rust belt) cities seeing increases of 300%, including Toledo. Detroit, Cleveland, Columbus and Cincinnati have all increased bicycle commuting by 150-200% in the last decade. 2) Several communities are seeing 2-3% total commute made up by bicycles, Pittsburgh is around 2%, while Columbus and Cleveland are hovering around 1%. 3) By 2020, Bicycle commuting may rival public buses in many communities.4) The average bicycle commuter has a <5mile ride to work and makes over $50k/yr OR <$10k/ year.

Minneapolis is over 3% annual commuting, Chicago is at almost 2%, year round, and both are doubling every 10 years right now.

These may seem like small numbers, but they are statistically significant and the growth is not not reflected by the TTers anecdotal observations.

posted by ahmahler on Jul 14, 2014 at 03:08:48 pm     #   1 person liked this

But WHO is it? Are those people in Toledo? Is Endcycle an outlier? I can't see the average suburbanite soccer mom/dad doing it.

I know most days I can't spare the extra time it would take, with a job, wife with a job, 3 active kids and hobbies of my own.

My theory is that Toledo does not have these people. Am I wrong?

Who does it outside people who are REALLY into riding?

posted by JoeyGee on Jul 14, 2014 at 03:35:29 pm     #  

People significant numbers, that is.

posted by JoeyGee on Jul 14, 2014 at 03:37:15 pm     #  

You are wrong, if you think they don't exist. I know many that do it. I have met tons of people that would love to do it more, but for the lack of infrastructure.

A commute of <5 miles can be almost negligible as far as amount of time, believe it or not. If you need to ride 5 miles and give yourself 30 minutes each way, then no problem. Driving, you would give yourself 20 minutes to get there (city driving). If you ride for 1 hr/ day, guess what, that's like going to the gym. Now you have just gained time.

posted by ahmahler on Jul 14, 2014 at 04:22:07 pm     #  

"I can't see the average suburbanite soccer mom/dad doing it."
So what if soccer moms won't use it to take their kids to practice? Nobody is saying they have to give up their cars and get bikes instead. Like others have said, it's not an "A or B" argument, it's an "A and B" argument.

"My theory is that Toledo does not have these people. Am I wrong? Who does it outside people who are REALLY into riding?"
Count me as 1. If I could safely get down Cherry Street on my bike, I would use it as my mode of transportation to get to/from work during the warm half of the year.

posted by Johio83 on Jul 14, 2014 at 04:25:02 pm     #  

So its still a special interest for at most 10% of the city population, maybe we can do some other things that only 10% of the population are interested in, actually they probably already have.

posted by MIJeff on Jul 14, 2014 at 04:29:16 pm     #  

I don't really understand that argument. Are you equally as upset about every sidewalk the city puts in? How many miles of sidewalk are there in the city? Concrete (sidewalks) is substantially more expensive than asphalt (bike lanes and paths), so you should be pretty outraged about that.

posted by Johio83 on Jul 14, 2014 at 04:39:38 pm     #  

I'm asking WHO the numbers are. I doubt there are many in Toledo, outside anecdotal evidence listed here.

I would like know out of those "tons of people that would love to do it more, but for the lack of infrastructure" who actually would do so if the infrastructure was in place and who would come up with another reason not to--likely one of the many reasons that Danneskjold had listed above.

Many have cited all these percentages of cities and other great facts, so I am asking WHO these people are and whether or not THOSE types of people really exist in Toledo. That would give a more accurate estimate if it would be successful here. Numbers from studies and statistics.

I do think bike commuting is a great idea. It's not so appealing once that idea gets broken down into the work that will make it happen--both on an individual level and a city/region level.

posted by JoeyGee on Jul 14, 2014 at 04:40:01 pm     #  

I don't get what you want, other than a list of people's names or something. Some have listed the 's other cities see as an example. You said "no, I want to know who," so I said that I would bike. And again, you said "I'm asking WHO the numbers are." People who ride bikes aren't some subset of the population you can genetically identify. It's whoever wants to ride a bike. Outside of people literally identifying themselves, or giving a of people other cities see, I really don't know how else you could identify the group.

posted by Johio83 on Jul 14, 2014 at 04:45:31 pm     #   2 people liked this

*the %'s other cities see

posted by Johio83 on Jul 14, 2014 at 04:46:03 pm     #  

And "giving a % of people other cities see"

Odd that both of my % signs disappeared in that post...

posted by Johio83 on Jul 14, 2014 at 04:47:15 pm     #  

High school students that don't want to ride a bus to school. UT students who want to cruise around campus and the surrounding neighborhoods. Mercy college students who would like to live downtown or in the OWE but don't want to deal with a car. Health enthusiasts. People who like to explore. Food delivery drivers and messenger services. General commuters who enjoy fresh air. Underemployed people who can't afford a car but need to get to work. Moustached tattooed hipsters. Beer crawl & food crawlers. People who just hate cars. Hippies. Environmentalists. People going on quick beer or food runs. Bike cops. People who go to ball games but don't want to deal with parking. Families looking for bonding experiences. Alcoholics that have lost their drivers license. Bike gangs. etc etc etc

posted by upso on Jul 14, 2014 at 04:56:12 pm     #   7 people liked this

Nolan_Rosenkrans writes:
"I spent 50 bucks at the coop for my bike and commute to work often."

Just curious, does that Toledo Bike Coop receive any State money to help support it? Money from tax payers?

posted by Danneskjold on Jul 14, 2014 at 05:30:07 pm     #  

I should also specify not just money but "support" as in funded jobs programs etc. Or is that Coop self supporting?

posted by Danneskjold on Jul 14, 2014 at 05:33:22 pm     #  

Are there locations downtown or elsewhere where groups of employees are securing their bicycles during workdays? I'd like to see actual evidence there are significant numbers of employees bicycling to and from work around the city, because I hardly ever see bicyclists.

Greater than 1/2 of 1% would surprise me during any given non-winter week.

posted by 6th_Floor on Jul 14, 2014 at 05:52:19 pm     #  

Danneskjold posted at 05:30:07 PM on Jul 14, 2014:

Nolan_Rosenkrans writes:
"I spent 50 bucks at the coop for my bike and commute to work often."

Just curious, does that Toledo Bike Coop receive any State money to help support it? Money from tax payers?

I'm assuming that Nolan is referring to Toledo Bikes, located downtown near Washington Street.

http://www.toledobikes.org

I also assume that everyone is aware of Toledo Bikes.

OUR MISSION

Toledo Bikes! is a non-profit organization dedicated to the recovery of used bikes, recycling those bikes through our volunteer and educational efforts into the hands of others. Toledo Bikes! is also helps to promote bicycling awareness through community outreach, education, and cycling events.

OUR PARTNERS

  • TMACOG
  • Toledo Area Bicyclists
  • Program connections - YWCA
    Carrera Program, Lake Erie Continuing Education Foundation, TMACOG, Maumee Bay River Festival, SITE Program, Source, Toledo Grows, Maumee Valley Adventurers, Arts Commission, Start High School, and more!

posted by jr on Jul 14, 2014 at 05:53:53 pm     #  

Upso: High school students that don't want to ride a bus to school.

Speaking about TPS, I have seen a consistent presence of empty bike racks at TPS schools. And during the colder months, which also happens to include the bulk of the school year, I cannot ever recall seeing significant numbers of TPS riding bicycles to and from schools.

posted by 6th_Floor on Jul 14, 2014 at 05:56:27 pm     #  

"I visited a small town in Arizona. They rode horses to the bar, therefore, if we want to have quality of life and attract young people, we need hitching posts. Anti-hitching post people are part of the problem."

Forgot AZ for inspiration.
Some businesses, such as a bank, in my Ohio hometown added hitching posts to support the growing Amish population.

But now some Amish are fleeing eastern Ohio because the rural roads have become unsafe because of all the fracking truck traffic.

So a risk does exist when supporting these quality of life ideas. Something could change, like a temporary economic boom time, that could drive away the users, and you're left with abandoned hitching posts.

posted by jr on Jul 14, 2014 at 06:29:55 pm     #  

Johio83 posted at 04:45:31 PM on Jul 14, 2014:

I don't get what you want, other than a list of people's names or something. Some have listed the 's other cities see as an example. You said "no, I want to know who," so I said that I would bike. And again, you said "I'm asking WHO the numbers are." People who ride bikes aren't some subset of the population you can genetically identify. It's whoever wants to ride a bike. Outside of people literally identifying themselves, or giving a of people other cities see, I really don't know how else you could identify the group.

OK, maybe I don't know how to type or properly articulate my questions. I am asking:

In those cities that have a notable percentage of bike commuters, what demographic (age/occupation/income/married/children/suburban/urban, etc) make up those riders?

OK, I'll drop it. You think Toledo will embrace bike paths, I don't think they will.

posted by JoeyGee on Jul 14, 2014 at 06:31:29 pm     #  

I don't think it's quite like talking about who would shop at a Whole Foods or something, where you could break out pretty significant demographics. For bike ridership, I think it would be similar percentages across the board. I don't think you'd find vast differences between incomes, races, etc.

posted by Johio83 on Jul 14, 2014 at 07:18:14 pm     #   2 people liked this

Is Endcycle an outlier?

In every. sense. of. the. word.

posted by ahmahler on Jul 14, 2014 at 07:55:40 pm     #  

6th_Floor posted at 05:56:27 PM on Jul 14, 2014:

Upso: High school students that don't want to ride a bus to school.

Speaking about TPS, I have seen a consistent presence of empty bike racks at TPS schools. And during the colder months, which also happens to include the bulk of the school year, I cannot ever recall seeing significant numbers of TPS riding bicycles to and from schools.

I think you are entirely missing the point. The infrastructure isn't there for significant numbers of ANYBODY to ride bikes anywhere other than the scattered trails.

posted by upso on Jul 14, 2014 at 08:53:31 pm     #   2 people liked this

Ok, I’m going to throw something out that is admittedly a stretch but want someone to point out the fallacy of my reasoning which is quite possible. So I was thinking about this on my way home tonight. In Lucas County (population 437,000) there are probably close to 100,000-200,000 gun owners? (very random guess assuming one in two adults) and that number has been swelling over the last few years. Of obvious importance is gun safety and training. With this much interest in guns how about forming a Toledo Firearms Coop? The Coop would receive state assistance and provide hands on training for young people entering the job force to become trained as certified armorers and trainers – it would partner with law enforcement who could even provide ceased guns which are presently rotting away somewhere. Those gun could be checked and maintained by the students as part of their training and resold to the public at a significant discount. Returning veterans would also find preference in job opportunities for firearms training and repair. In addition there is a large patch of unused land where the Southwyck Mall used to be. With a substantial amount of dirt to make a backstop this could be transferred into an outdoor shooting range where CCW training and gun safety courses could be provided. In addition for a small investment an indoor shooting range could added as well. A great deal of the funding for this would be provided by the City and State... as training for the work force and community investment.

The interest in personal protection and firearm safety far exceeds that of biking…. Why public funding always be aimed toward things like "the arts", "biking and pubic transportation...."?

Why should all the people purchasing guns have to go and pay full price at Bass Pro and then pay full price for range time and also pay for their own training for their CCW’s which can be costly? Why should bike riders and public transportation get all the perks but responsible gun ownership be self-supporting?

I know there is fallacy in my logic somewhere but it is a puzzle to me. Why do certain things like biking fall into this "assistance category" but gun ownership does not?

BTW - I am both an avid biker and shooter but do not feel either hobby warrants city or state aid.

posted by Danneskjold on Jul 14, 2014 at 11:14:23 pm     #  

I should also point out that there are many lower income people who would benefit from this program and based on the crime map the poorer areas of town have the biggest need for safe personal protection. This would be a program that provides a great benefit to the less fortunate.

posted by Danneskjold on Jul 14, 2014 at 11:29:44 pm     #  

o_0

it's not an "assistance category" it's a city infrastructure category. also, your suggestion that more people are into guns than bikes feels massively flawed. do you have any data on that? are you suggesting more homes in Toledo have guns than bikes?

we could apply your gun argument to just about anything. maybe we could start assisting home cooks on how to better make a brown butter sauce? Gotta be a good percentage of Toledoans that don't know how to cook their pasta to a perfect al dente.

this thread is about bikes. come on.

posted by nits on Jul 14, 2014 at 11:36:17 pm     #   2 people liked this

"we could apply your gun argument to just about anything. maybe we could start assisting home cooks on how to better make a brown butter sauce?"

That's the point nits... Why bikes? Why not personal protection? Why not cooking? Why not...... City infrastructure has nothing to do with bikes IMO. Just another unnecessary expenditure for one group of people's interest.

It sounds like people who like bikes want this stuff.

posted by Danneskjold on Jul 14, 2014 at 11:41:19 pm     #  

why are cars more important than bikes? why are sidewalk walkers more important than bikes? please explain

posted by nits on Jul 14, 2014 at 11:49:35 pm     #  

make the pedestrians walk in the street and bikes can use the sidewalks, bikes are more important right?

posted by MIJeff on Jul 15, 2014 at 12:07:56 am     #  

City infrastructure has nothing to do with bikes IMO. Just another unnecessary expenditure for one group of people's interest.

You mean, like cars?

posted by ahmahler on Jul 15, 2014 at 12:24:57 am     #   2 people liked this

MIJeff posted at 12:07:56 AM on Jul 15, 2014:

make the pedestrians walk in the street and bikes can use the sidewalks, bikes are more important right?

i think the point is... ALL are important. :)

posted by upso on Jul 15, 2014 at 12:50:10 am     #  

Danneskjold posted at 11:41:19 PM on Jul 14, 2014:

"we could apply your gun argument to just about anything. maybe we could start assisting home cooks on how to better make a brown butter sauce?"

That's the point nits... Why bikes? Why not personal protection? Why not cooking? Why not...... City infrastructure has nothing to do with bikes IMO. Just another unnecessary expenditure for one group of people's interest.

It sounds like people who like bikes want this stuff.

I don't ride...at all. Haven't for at least 15 years. However, I've seen how quality of life projects like this are used as a tool to help revitalize an area. That isn't saying that every road should have a bike lane. These would need to be focused in areas, initially, where they will see the most use. The obvious one is going to be around UT and of course around Downtown. Then also look at East Toledo around Int'l Park and near any areas by higher density residential developments.

Sure it may only serve a narrow portion of the population, but it isn't meant to be used alone. When you want to draw new businesses and their employees into your area, quality of life is very important. Recreational activities are usually very high in that category. Bike lanes are part of that, but it is also supported very a high quality park system, area attractions (museum and zoo), a good library system, and good assortment of sport teams. Toledo has a lot going for it, the problem is it isn't represented as it should be and it is impacted by some negatives.

Housing, while affordable looking at basic list prices, there is an issue with blight that is finally getting addressed. Crime needs to be handled, so the city needs to make some tough decisions there to get it under control. Then of course the poor infrastructure in the roads that need immediate action. These all negate a lot of the benefits the quality of life benefits the area really provides.

Toledoans and its leaders need to really start looking at what other cities have done to turn things around. It won't be a cookie cutter solution, but it will at least help give ideas on what to do.

posted by JustaSooner on Jul 15, 2014 at 05:16:44 am     #   1 person liked this

Bike lanes are not quality of life projects. They are lines painted on existing infrastructure.

posted by Nolan_Rosenkrans on Jul 15, 2014 at 08:45:12 am     #   1 person liked this

so.... lines and hash marks painted on a field of grass dont take on special significance to millions of kids playing pop warner?!

posted by enjoyeverysandwich on Jul 15, 2014 at 08:55:54 am     #  

how about the bancroft lanes be designated the "dr bob brundage" memorial bikeway.

posted by enjoyeverysandwich on Jul 15, 2014 at 08:57:59 am     #  

Demographic info:

http://www.citylab.com/commute/2011/09/substantial-increases-bike-ridership-across-nation/161/

Also, check this out:
http://www.governing.com/blogs/by-the-numbers/bike-to-work-map-us-cities-census-data.html

Important line:
"Growth in cycling is far more noticeable in some areas than others. The League of American Bicyclists found a particularly sharp increase in bicycle commuting over the decade for cities receiving its “Bicycle Friendly Community” designation, including Portland, San Francisco and Washington, D.C."

Turns out that if you build the infrastructure and it's good, it'll get used.

Here's some more info, this time from a feasibility study for a bike share program in Cleveland:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/203229094/Cleveland-Bikeshare-Feasibility-Study-FINAL

Maybe I'm nuts (and a total outlier, yeah) - but I tend to believe that Toledo needs this. That belief is grounded in the facts from the research I've done - in EVERY CASE that a city builds a good infrastructure for cycling, it gets used. In EVERY CASE there are positive health outcomes for the city. In EVERY CASE the city becomes more desirable for young populations.

If the facts were different and they didn't hold up to scrutiny, I'd care a lot less. The fact is that they do - it's a net positive in every way.

Moving along - i'm happy, once again, to share tips / tricks for bike commuting in the city or hook anyone up with groups that can be helpful.

The link above to Toledo Bikes Co-op is a great start if you don't have a bike and just want a beater. I also highly recommend Wersell's on Central if you want to go higher-end.

posted by endcycle on Jul 15, 2014 at 09:21:05 am     #   2 people liked this

Also - Justasooner:
"I don't ride...at all. Haven't for at least 15 years. However, I've seen how quality of life projects like this are used as a tool to help revitalize an area. That isn't saying that every road should have a bike lane. These would need to be focused in areas, initially, where they will see the most use. The obvious one is going to be around UT and of course around Downtown. Then also look at East Toledo around Int'l Park and near any areas by higher density residential developments."

You're right - not every road should have a lane. There are many that don't make sense. The way to go is to have a hub-and-spoke sort of setup, where you have a main thoroughfare out to each major area (sylvania, maumee, pburg, springfield, oregon, rossford, etc etc etc) and then connect those areas radially around the city. The end result would look like a bit of a spiderweb, allowing logical bike transport from anywhere to anywhere in the city.

posted by endcycle on Jul 15, 2014 at 09:23:52 am     #  

Putting them on main arteries that can easily connect major areas is definitely the way to go. One really easy one, in my mind anyway, would be Broadway/River Road through Toledo and Maumee. That has to be the widest single lane road I've ever driven on, even with cars parked along both sides. And there are countless residential streets it would join, which wouldn't need bike lanes due to their low traffic.

posted by Johio83 on Jul 15, 2014 at 09:59:28 am     #  

As the crow flies, I don't live that far from my job downtown. And when gas prices spike and money is tight, I've often thought that riding my bike to work would be a great idea, both for my wallet and my waistline.

However, the idea of riding down Bancroft or Monroe, with early-morning or late afternoon traffic, scares the crap out of me. If we had a bike lane, I'd definitely consider it.

For you "demographics are everything" people, I'm a white female, 50, with five bikes in the garage and no guns on the premises.

posted by Anniecski on Jul 15, 2014 at 10:55:39 am     #   3 people liked this

Anniecski posted at 10:55:39 AM on Jul 15, 2014:

As the crow flies, I don't live that far from my job downtown. And when gas prices spike and money is tight, I've often thought that riding my bike to work would be a great idea, both for my wallet and my waistline.

However, the idea of riding down Bancroft or Monroe, with early-morning or late afternoon traffic, scares the crap out of me. If we had a bike lane, I'd definitely consider it.

For you "demographics are everything" people, I'm a white female, 50, with five bikes in the garage and no guns on the premises.

Bancroft wouldn't be too bad. I'd avoid Monroe further west of the Museum, but once you're clear of that you're good.

posted by endcycle on Jul 15, 2014 at 01:32:05 pm     #  

Summit from Point place- broadway or river road to us 20
Secor from Alexis to South avenue?
Alexis from Sylvania to Suder?
Central from i280 to Holland Sylcania?
Dorr St from 475 to Downtown?
Airport hwy.

posted by MIJeff on Jul 15, 2014 at 02:42:08 pm     #  

Summit- I think there's a plan being implemented for that one already.

Secor- I would say that Douglas would be a bit more likely. Secor's infrastructure was JUST rebuilt by the highway, and I'd bet Douglas could use the TLC anyway. Plus, it's got a bit more room on either side for widening.

Alexis- yeah. good call. Connect Sylvania to North End - then the greenbelt or similar into downtown.

Dorr- I almost would rather see Bancroft, if only because it's a touch less insanely busy in places.

Airport - I'd suggest Heatherdowns, given the proximity and the number of people who could be served by it.

My additions:

River / Broadway from Maumee to downtown

River on the Pburd side around through rossford, snake it all the way around to Route 2 (high level).

Woodville Rd.

I don't know enough about the east side of the river to really suggest much. :(

posted by endcycle on Jul 15, 2014 at 03:04:10 pm     #  

I agree about the Airport/Heatherdowns switch. Airport gets some pretty heavy traffic, with some areas like the McCord, Holland Sylvania, and Reynolds intersections being particularly crazy. Heatherdowns really only has one "nuts" caliber intersection (Reynolds), and has some pretty long stretches with nothing more than residential streets.

posted by Johio83 on Jul 15, 2014 at 03:56:27 pm     #  

Okay, let's get this moving. I'll get some spray paint. Noon Saturday?

posted by endcycle on Jul 15, 2014 at 05:10:44 pm     #  

No... I think you have to bribe the actual crew.

posted by justread on Jul 15, 2014 at 05:24:59 pm     #  

Think you have to bring D(imebag) Michael Collins, what does the D actually stand for anyways and why doesn't he use his given first name? Is it a girly name or something?

posted by MIJeff on Jul 15, 2014 at 07:38:09 pm     #  

MIJeff posted at 07:38:09 PM on Jul 15, 2014:

Think you have to bring D(imebag) Michael Collins, what does the D actually stand for anyways and why doesn't he use his given first name? Is it a girly name or something?

Dennis

posted by dell_diva on Jul 15, 2014 at 07:40:13 pm     #  

Whats wrong with Dennis, I know a couple people named Dennis its a good name.

posted by MIJeff on Jul 15, 2014 at 07:41:07 pm     #  

Lesson learned about bike commuting when you haven't done it in a few weeks - ALWAYS CHECK YOUR ROUTE BEFORE LEAVING THE HOUSE.

Turns out River / Broadway is shredded at the base of the hill before the roundabout. :(

posted by endcycle on Jul 16, 2014 at 09:23:44 am     #   1 person liked this

Opposition to more bike paths is probably part of the reason we are the 7th fattest city in America.

posted by presbacon on Jul 20, 2014 at 10:50:39 pm     #  

or vice versa

posted by bucknut on Jul 21, 2014 at 09:46:21 pm     #  

ha! yes

posted by upso on Jul 21, 2014 at 09:46:53 pm     #  

I don't oppose bike paths, I oppose the dumbass bicyclists who don't stay in them.

posted by justareviewer on Jul 22, 2014 at 09:52:43 am     #   2 people liked this

Hehe outside the painted lines are fair game, its sick, but I keep picturing death race now that you mention dumbass bicyclists.

posted by MIJeff on Jul 22, 2014 at 10:14:59 am     #  

Check out the "clipped short version" at youtube,com/macnkat.

posted by Mike21 on Jul 22, 2014 at 11:14:06 am     #  

justareviewer posted at 09:52:43 AM on Jul 22, 2014:

I don't oppose bike paths, I oppose the dumbass bicyclists who don't stay in them.

....you know, every time I've spent time in a city with plenty of well-marked and driver-respected lanes, the cyclists have seemed to behave beautifully.

Now, there are 3 major components there-

Plenty: As in, can you get from where you are to where you want to be mostly using bike lanes / paths?

Well-marked: Is it more than just a single white line with a sign every few miles that says something like "share the road"?

Driver-respected: If drivers are jumping into bike paths / lanes (as happens entirely too often), cyclists stop believing in the relative safety of the lane and are much more willing to jump out into traffic to protect themselves and get places safely.

Now, all 3 are easily addressed:

Plenty: plan out a good hub-and-spoke system with good spider connectors all over the city and implement it along with the normal road repair schedules (see: Cleveland for a perfect implementation of this scheduled buildout).

Well-Marked: Seriously, design it right. Look at the cities where it's working to reduce car traffic - minneapolis, seattle, san francisco, cleveland, columbus, grand rapids. Clearly mark the territory for each type of traffic. Make sure it's REALLY obvious.

Driver-respected: this is a combination of outreach / education and enforcement. Penalize the shit out of drivers who breach into the path (and cyclists who don't use the paths / lanes!). Take the time to really educate the population, which isn't really that hard. Usually.

posted by endcycle on Jul 22, 2014 at 12:55:17 pm     #  

West Toledo is getting a North-South Corridor to UT-if you didn't catch it this morning in The Blade

http://www.toledoblade.com/local/2014/09/26/Plans-for-W-Toledo-hiking-biking-trail-on-old-tracks-ready-for-review.html

posted by ahmahler on Sep 26, 2014 at 09:10:17 am     #  

Wish that was there when I lived in that area!

posted by Hoops on Sep 26, 2014 at 09:46:53 am     #  

They have been discussing that trail for years. I'll believe it when I see it.

posted by tolbuck on Sep 26, 2014 at 11:48:10 am     #