Toledo Talk

Do NOT Drink the Water in Toledo

From ABC:

The city of Toledo released an urgent notice to all Toledo water users overnight.

The city is asking anyone who receives water from Toledo to avoid drinking or boiling the water.

Chemists testing water at Toledo's Collins Park Water Treatment Plant tested for microcystin in excess of the recommended amount.

Here is more information provided by the city:
What should you do?

Do not drink the water. Alternative water should be used for drinking, making infant formula, making ice, brushing teeth and preparing food. Pets should not drink the water.

Do not boil the water.. Boiling the water will not destroy the toxins. It will increase the concentration of the toxins.

Consuming water containing algal toxins may result in abnormal liver function, diarrhea, vomiting, nausea, numbness or dizziness. Seek medical attention if you feel you have been exposed to algal toxins and are having adverse health effects. Skin contact with contaminated water can cause irritation or rashes. Contact a veterinarian immediately if pets or livestock show signs of illness.

What happened? What is being done?

Lake Erie, which is a source of drinking water for the Toledo water system may have been impacted by a harmful algal bloom (HAB). These organisms are capable of producing a number of toxins that may pose a risk to human and animal health. HABs occur when excess nitrogen and phosphorus are present in lakes and streams. Such nutrients can come from runoff of over-fertilized fields and lawns, from malfunctioning septic systems and from livestock pens.

Additional monitoring is being conducted and we will let you know when the situation has been resolved or if additional precautions should be taken. The water system is running additional tests to verify the severity of the microcystin levels in our water supply.

Please stay tuned to 13abc for more information and share this information with friends, family or neighbors that may not have been informed through this media release. A phone number for the public to call will be included in a future release.

http://www.13abc.com/story/26178497/urgent-message-from-city-toledoans-asked-not-to-drink-or-boil-water

created by taliesin52 on Aug 02, 2014 at 02:29:39 am     Health     Comments: 293

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My final (everyone says hopefully) thought on all this is, once again, Toledo Talk is the go-to place for information, updates, much-needed humor, and yes, even snarky internet-style arguments on significant story-lines in the NW Ohio area.

It's the old shoe that remains the comfortable fit, with familiar screennames that over the years have contributed usually-insightful opinions, observations and laughs.

Nobody on here's a dummy. So keep on keepin' on, folks.

posted by McCaskey on Aug 04, 2014 at 10:30:09 am     #   8 people liked this

Perrysburg still has not lifted the ban, it was just reported at 10:50 a.m. until it gets the test results from Toledo.

Yeah, I think I'll wait another day before I drink it, though I live in Toledo.

Ace, you could take a shower during the ban if you are a healthy adult. Those with compromised immune systems were advised not to.

posted by bikerdude on Aug 04, 2014 at 10:51:40 am     #  

In my honest opinion; 1.... we are talking about parts per million here, like a drop of water in a olympic sized swimming pool. Or a blade of grass on a football field. 2... how many years have the algae blooms been around in the summer on lake erie?? 3....people(myself included) have swam in lake erie lately. The algae blooms are going to always be there due to a shallow lake and being non spring fed. 4... 20-30 years ago before advanced technology people were drinking, bathing in worse water.

posted by Emeritus on Aug 04, 2014 at 11:50:01 am     #  

In my honest opinion; 1.... we are talking about parts per million here, like a drop of water in a olympic sized swimming pool. Or a blade of grass on a football field. 2... how many years have the algae blooms been around in the summer on lake erie?? 3....people(myself included) have swam in lake erie lately. The algae blooms are going to always be there due to a shallow lake and being non spring fed. 4... 20-30 years ago before advanced technology people were drinking, bathing in worse water.

posted by Emeritus on Aug 04, 2014 at 11:50:29 am     #  

Actually, we're talking about parts per billion in this case - which gives you some idea just how potent this one is.

Could it be that the toxins being emitted have evolved and become more lethal?

I'm sure we'll hear much more about it in the near future.

posted by Foodie on Aug 04, 2014 at 12:02:55 pm     #   1 person liked this

Emeritus posted at 11:50:29 AM on Aug 04, 2014:

In my honest opinion; 1.... we are talking about parts per million here, like a drop of water in a olympic sized swimming pool. Or a blade of grass on a football field. 2... how many years have the algae blooms been around in the summer on lake erie?? 3....people(myself included) have swam in lake erie lately. The algae blooms are going to always be there due to a shallow lake and being non spring fed. 4... 20-30 years ago before advanced technology people were drinking, bathing in worse water.

1. The units are ppb, not ppm.
2. About 20 years on the blooms.
3. The algae blooms are not always going to be there. They are a function of agricultural run-off, industrial waste, outdated sewage treatment systems, and favorable weather conditions. Also, there are many varieties of cyanobacteria (the so-called blue-green algae). Most do not produce this specific toxin. In higher doses, it can be lethal, as in the case of the Brazilian dialysis patients who died in 1996 due to microcystin exposure.
4. Just because people in the past used to bathe in (or drink) polluted water does not mean that we should do the same. My great-grandmother used to give my grandfather and his siblings coal oil when they were sick; does that mean I should make my own kids consume petroleum distillates when they have a cough or fever?

posted by historymike on Aug 04, 2014 at 12:13:10 pm     #   1 person liked this

So my grandma lived to be 93 years old and drank lake erie water her whole life. The quality of the water was way way worse. She never had any surgeries. Also ddt was present in the water back then. Explain that history mike.

posted by Emeritus on Aug 04, 2014 at 12:19:57 pm     #  

llz posted at 04:57:41 AM on Aug 04, 2014:

I think that using the amber alert system SHOULD have been used to notify us this past weekend. I believe that people who had their phones registered to WTVG's alert "system" received a text alert. Those people then contacted their friends/relatives which is why so many places were out of water so early.

No, lets not turn every alert system into a jack of all trades, people will begin to ignore warning systems if they are for everything. Keep amber alert for children (not just ones named amber), the weather alert for weather, tornado sirens for tornadoes ( yes I actually read someone wanted them to use the sirens to warn of algae blooms).
If and I mean if, there was any1 system currently in place that could of been used for a do not consume warning the emergency alert system, should of been activated, it is not specific for any particular types of events. I am surprised it wasn't actually used for this, some of the other systems can be cut into with the emergency broadcasting network, they test it often enough. Radio, TV, cable, not sure about weather radio.
The only thing is I have no idea at what level it can be controlled, if its at a state level or higher.

posted by MIJeff on Aug 04, 2014 at 12:20:22 pm     #   1 person liked this

The State should pull all tobacco products off the shelf. State of Emergency, Tobacco KILLS people, such hypocrites...

posted by Emeritus on Aug 04, 2014 at 12:29:51 pm     #  

Emeritus posted at 12:19:57 PM on Aug 04, 2014:

So my grandma lived to be 93 years old and drank lake erie water her whole life. The quality of the water was way way worse. She never had any surgeries. Also ddt was present in the water back then. Explain that history mike.

<facepalm>

So pour yourself a big ole glass of DDT, Emeritus.

I do not have time to teach an entire statistics course for you, but you might spend a few minutes reading about outliers and sample sizes so that you do not sound like such a doofus in future attempts to debate the dangers of toxic substances in drinking water.

posted by historymike on Aug 04, 2014 at 12:35:34 pm     #   7 people liked this

Algae blooms have been part of Lake Erie, as far back as I can remember. In my case that would be since 1956-7. I spent every summer in the Port Clinton area. We used to take wads of the stuff, and throw it at each other like snowballs! I keep bottled water, for REAL emergencies. I used tap water the last four days, exclusively. This so-called near catastrophe will be used to raise our sewage rates now!

posted by Wulf on Aug 04, 2014 at 12:49:45 pm     #   2 people liked this

Where can we get DDT?

posted by Wulf on Aug 04, 2014 at 12:53:35 pm     #  

I dont know wulf, History Mike believes it wasnt that important . Google DDT, 1970's killed off damn near everything in the lake, eagles too. Hmmm. Also must be our plentiful rainshed this year for all the runoff from the farmers who are dying for a drop or 2. Alsi kinda funny all the farmers fields we see around TOLEDO. I was thinking about all the fields i see miles and miles away from the water intake. Were does that runoff go?,

posted by Emeritus on Aug 04, 2014 at 12:58:50 pm     #  

History mike do you smoke??

posted by Emeritus on Aug 04, 2014 at 01:10:24 pm     #  

Emeritus posted at 12:58:50 PM on Aug 04, 2014:

I dont know wulf, History Mike believes it wasnt that important . Google DDT, 1970's killed off damn near everything in the lake, eagles too. Hmmm. Also must be our plentiful rainshed this year for all the runoff from the farmers who are dying for a drop or 2. Alsi kinda funny all the farmers fields we see around TOLEDO. I was thinking about all the fields i see miles and miles away from the water intake. Were does that runoff go?,

The more you post, the denser you sound on this topic, Emeritus. To answer your questions:

  • Runoff can occur after any rainfall that is near the time at which fertilizer is applied. You know, like in the spring, when we had heavier rains and all that melting snow pack from the record-setting snowfall of the past winter.
  • The runoff is not necessarily from Toledo or the suburbs. This accumulates from every waterway in the Maumee River watershed, which then flows into the Maumee River, which then empties into Maumee Bay, where it can collect as sediment. You know the Maumee Bay, right? The place where Toledo's water intake is located.

Here is a simple map of the Maumee watershed; everything in yellow eventually empties into the Maumee River, which then empties into Maumee Bay:

But in re-reading your earlier posts, I suspect it was your mother who must have been drinking all that DDT, and she must have been guzzling the pesticide while you were in her womb. Get checked for lead paint exposure, too, buddy.

posted by historymike on Aug 04, 2014 at 01:17:55 pm     #   1 person liked this

Emeritus posted at 01:10:24 PM on Aug 04, 2014:

History mike do you smoke??

Why, are you buying?

posted by historymike on Aug 04, 2014 at 01:18:43 pm     #   1 person liked this

History Mike, you so proved your point, I surrender..The water in lake erie was cleaner and better to drink from 1800 till now. Im sorry buddy. You are right. Dont forget to swim in too. You are the smartest man i ever met. Thanks for schooling me on the subject. And also informing the public on DANGEROUS the water is NOW as opposed to The PAST.. good job ..

posted by Emeritus on Aug 04, 2014 at 01:35:01 pm     #  

Here is a better picture of the western Lake Erie watershed, it is massive once you include the other smaller rivers, and there is a ton of farm fields in that area.

posted by MIJeff on Aug 04, 2014 at 02:48:07 pm     #   1 person liked this

Emeritus posted at 01:35:01 PM on Aug 04, 2014:

History Mike, you so proved your point, I surrender..The water in lake erie was cleaner and better to drink from 1800 till now. Im sorry buddy. You are right. Dont forget to swim in too. You are the smartest man i ever met. Thanks for schooling me on the subject. And also informing the public on DANGEROUS the water is NOW as opposed to The PAST.. good job ..

A little early to be drunk on a Monday isn't it?

posted by hunkytownsausage on Aug 04, 2014 at 02:56:14 pm     #   5 people liked this

MIJeff, I didn't mean to suggest that the Amber System should be used for future issues like we just had, just this past one. Mainly because it happened during the night and if it was as truly as serious as they suggested, someone could have gotten really sick. How many bottles of infant formula were made Friday night? My mom is recovering from 3 surgeries, and thankfully I knew about the issue in time to call her and warn her not to drink the water during the night. Not everyone has a weather radio. Not everyone had the tv/radio on at 2:00 in the am for the Emerg. Broad. System to work...Going forward, there definitely needs to be some way to warn people. I only heard about it because I was coming home from the drive in with my family, and happened to check TT, and saw the first post....

posted by llz on Aug 04, 2014 at 02:57:40 pm     #  

Still does not discount the fact that in the 70's the water was unswimable in lots of lake erie and the water was in far worse shape. Any rivers on fire lately???

posted by Emeritus on Aug 04, 2014 at 03:01:00 pm     #   1 person liked this

Take a look at a live (well, live within the last few minutes) satellite image such as the one at weather.com (yes, I hate their site too) and look where the Detroit River dumps into Lake Erie. Not too difficult to see another very large contributor to the algal bloom problem.

posted by Foodie on Aug 04, 2014 at 03:01:02 pm     #  

Emeritus posted at 12:19:57 PM on Aug 04, 2014:

So my grandma lived to be 93 years old and drank lake erie water her whole life. The quality of the water was way way worse. She never had any surgeries. Also ddt was present in the water back then. Explain that history mike.

posted by Ace_Face on Aug 04, 2014 at 03:01:55 pm     #   7 people liked this

Dont worry ill wait!!

posted by Emeritus on Aug 04, 2014 at 03:02:38 pm     #  

An important environmental message:

posted by historymike on Aug 04, 2014 at 03:08:51 pm     #  

Lake Eries' finest... Swill

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/5378456/bill_murray_snl_classic_commercial/

posted by sparky31134 on Aug 04, 2014 at 03:35:55 pm     #  

Sorry breaker... just saw you already had this same link

posted by sparky31134 on Aug 04, 2014 at 03:40:27 pm     #  

llz posted at 02:57:40 PM on Aug 04, 2014:

MIJeff, I didn't mean to suggest that the Amber System should be used for future issues like we just had, just this past one. Mainly because it happened during the night and if it was as truly as serious as they suggested, someone could have gotten really sick. How many bottles of infant formula were made Friday night? My mom is recovering from 3 surgeries, and thankfully I knew about the issue in time to call her and warn her not to drink the water during the night. Not everyone has a weather radio. Not everyone had the tv/radio on at 2:00 in the am for the Emerg. Broad. System to work...Going forward, there definitely needs to be some way to warn people. I only heard about it because I was coming home from the drive in with my family, and happened to check TT, and saw the first post....

Wonder why they didn't use the reverse phone system, I got a call a while back from Monroe county, forgot what the issue was, but it rang, I answered and it gave a recorded message about something that was going on. I don't remember if it was weather related, seems to me it wasn't.
I wouldn't mind a phone call at 2:00 am to tell me dont drink the water. I just think using any system for other than its intended purpose would degrade that systems reliability when its truly needed for its intended purpose, kinda like crying wolf where there is none. Even now I think people are ignoring weather watches for tornadoes, floods, and thunderstorms, until its a warning that is.

posted by MIJeff on Aug 04, 2014 at 03:47:32 pm     #  

Like i said im waiting for someone to tell me about any rivers around here that are on fire??? History mike you are so smart, tell me one!

posted by Emeritus on Aug 04, 2014 at 04:42:39 pm     #   1 person liked this

SPECIAL ALERT: If the water is making you act like a prick on the internet, stop drinking the water immediately and avoid touching your laptop until further notice.

posted by justread on Aug 04, 2014 at 04:47:14 pm     #   4 people liked this

Apparently, while the politicians were saving us, by talking, the algae problem has lowered its' levels, by itself!

posted by Wulf on Aug 04, 2014 at 04:51:34 pm     #  

"kinda like crying wolf where there is none"

That one test Friday night showed an extra 1.1ppb wolf to water ratio. The rest did not.

But I'll have you know nobody died on their watch.

posted by justread on Aug 04, 2014 at 04:54:12 pm     #   3 people liked this

Nobody???

posted by Emeritus on Aug 04, 2014 at 05:12:06 pm     #  

So-Emeritus-I've gone back and reread your comments and I can't quite figure out your point-I think it's that a) this is all BS and the algae wasn't going to hurt anyone b) Algae has nothing to do with modern farming practices c) Lake Erie had bigger problems before and now it's all better d) Your Grandma reached the ripe old age of 93 BECAUSE of the Algae. e) Fire=bad

Single event anecdotal examples statistically don't even exist. Now, if your Grannie's entire town drank algae laced water daily every day and lived to be 93, then it's significant. See the difference?

It is possible that the issues of the 1970's and the issues today are DIFFERENT, AND both a result of poor environmental practices. There's more than one way to damage a body of water, some reckless, some careless, some through ignorance.

Maybe you should leave science to the scientists and on this board, at the very least, to Historymike.

posted by ahmahler on Aug 04, 2014 at 05:20:58 pm     #   6 people liked this

Historymike? He teaches us history here, and now environmental science as well, and on the other board, he practices medicine!

posted by Wulf on Aug 04, 2014 at 05:31:02 pm     #  

Wulf posted at 05:31:02 PM on Aug 04, 2014:

Historymike? He teaches us history here, and now environmental science as well, and on the other board, he practices medicine!

And you practice bullshit. Got yourself a Phd in that...

posted by hunkytownsausage on Aug 04, 2014 at 05:33:14 pm     #   4 people liked this

Wulf posted at 05:31:02 PM on Aug 04, 2014:

Historymike? He teaches us history here, and now environmental science as well, and on the other board, he practices medicine!

WTF. I hope that you were aiming for parody or sarcasm here.

Otherwise, show me where I have "practiced medicine," Wulf. I do have research interests in epidemiological history, environmental history, and the history of medicine, but at no point have I ever "practiced medicine."

posted by historymike on Aug 04, 2014 at 05:45:48 pm     #  

Historymike? He teaches us history here, and now environmental science as well, and on the other board, he practices medicine!

Nah-I'm just saying that his argument was spot on and backed up by data.

posted by ahmahler on Aug 04, 2014 at 05:46:25 pm     #   1 person liked this

Emeritus posted at 05:12:06 PM on Aug 04, 2014:

Nobody???

Just the ones that were already on the list.

posted by justread on Aug 04, 2014 at 05:49:21 pm     #  

So, it occurs to me, with all of this drama, level 3 snow emergencies, and Aquapocalypse just in the first 7 months of this Mayor, I hope he doesn't have an appetite for it. What's next? Cancel trick or treating?

We just shut down the city for three days for one reading "approaching" 1.0 and one "just over" on Friday evening.

Shame we couldn't just turn the carbon up.

posted by justread on Aug 04, 2014 at 06:04:40 pm     #   2 people liked this

justread posted at 06:04:40 PM on Aug 04, 2014:

So, it occurs to me, with all of this drama, level 3 snow emergencies, and Aquapocalypse just in the first 7 months of this Mayor, I hope he doesn't have an appetite for it. What's next? Cancel trick or treating?

We just shut down the city for three days for one reading "approaching" 1.0 and one "just over" on Friday evening.

Shame we couldn't just turn the carbon up.

I saw one article quoting the mayor early on Saturday, when he (supposedly) said all business should remain closed. Not restaurants, all businesses. They just don't get what being closed for even one day does to a business.

posted by MrsArcher on Aug 04, 2014 at 07:06:26 pm     #   1 person liked this

MrsArcher posted at 07:06:26 PM on Aug 04, 2014:
justread posted at 06:04:40 PM on Aug 04, 2014:

So, it occurs to me, with all of this drama, level 3 snow emergencies, and Aquapocalypse just in the first 7 months of this Mayor, I hope he doesn't have an appetite for it. What's next? Cancel trick or treating?

We just shut down the city for three days for one reading "approaching" 1.0 and one "just over" on Friday evening.

Shame we couldn't just turn the carbon up.

I saw one article quoting the mayor early on Saturday, when he (supposedly) said all business should remain closed. Not restaurants, all businesses. They just don't get what being closed for even one day does to a business.

Agreed, Mrs. Archer. Having been in the restaurant business about 25 years (10 as a franchisee) I know well the pain of losing even one day's worth of revenue.

Then factor in what it means to many thousands of Toledo-area retail workers to lose wages for 1-3 days. Many of them are part-time, and even the full-time workers likely are feeling the sting of getting their hours cut.

What these government leaders seem unable to grasp is that in the long run this translates into a hit on tax revenues: the loss of city tax alone from thousands of workers for a few days probably represents a sizable sum.

If we assume 10,000 workers were idled for an average of 12 hours (just to be conservative on the estimate) at $8.00 an hour, then the city lost $21,600 in taxes on the $960,000 in lost wages.

That $960,000 is not being circulated in the community the way it normally would, either, which means a ripple effect in other sectors of the local economy.

The bad part about losing local sales in restaurants is that these really are lost sales: unlike, say, a car dealership, people do not defer a meal until there is better weather or the when water ban stops. They just eat at home or travel out of town.

posted by historymike on Aug 04, 2014 at 07:24:52 pm     #   1 person liked this

"You know the Maumee Bay, right? The place where Toledo's water intake is located."

I know Maumee Bay very well. Maybe you should get out there sometime.

The point in the lake off of Reno Beach and out from Cooley Canal launch ramp that has the intake crib is about 10 miles to the east of Toledo. The intake crib is several miles east of the eastern most boundary of Maumee Bay, Little Cedar Point. In fact, it is hidden from view until you are nearly clear of the bay altogether and north of the shoreline on the east.

posted by justread on Aug 04, 2014 at 08:21:26 pm     #  

Well put, historymike. The ripple effect can be economically crushing to a community.

When Mayor Collins spoke this morning, he mentioned something about how much this whole fiasco is going to cost the city, including all the overtime pay to the city employees.

Hopefully, those employees will spend some of that overtime pay back in the community, and make it a point to frequent some of the restaurants here a little more often during the next month or so. I really feel bad for the restaurants , they just never saw this coming.

posted by foodie88 on Aug 04, 2014 at 08:27:34 pm     #   2 people liked this

justread posted at 08:21:26 PM on Aug 04, 2014:

"You know the Maumee Bay, right? The place where Toledo's water intake is located."

I know Maumee Bay very well. Maybe you should get out there sometime.

The point in the lake off of Reno Beach and out from Cooley Canal launch ramp that has the intake crib is about 10 miles to the east of Toledo. The intake crib is several miles east of the eastern most boundary of Maumee Bay, Little Cedar Point. In fact, it is hidden from view until you are nearly clear of the bay altogether and north of the shoreline on the east.

Really? We are going to quibble about the geographical definitions of the term "Maumee Bay," justread?

If you prefer "western Lake Erie basin," I will be happy to use that term. The point was that runoff flows down the Maumee River into the Maumee Bay, then flows into the western Lake Erie basin, where it feeds cyanobacteria, which lead to algal blooms, some of which are capable of producing the deadly microcystin toxin.

And yes: I have been boating in the Maumee Bay, walked and swam along the Maumee Bay shoreline, been birding at the many natural refuges in the area, and have eaten ice cream at the ice cream place near the Bono curve.

Thank you for the clarification on the definitions of Maumee Bay.

posted by historymike on Aug 04, 2014 at 08:54:28 pm     #  

Foodie posted at 09:07:03 AM on Aug 04, 2014:

@Sohio:
"One silly quote gets a snarky comment from you, foodie?"

Certainly not Sohio. It was but one of the "silly" comments she has made during her 32 YEARS in Congress.

"Silly" like the one she made about "sitting next to the gavel" of the chair of the House Appropriations Committee - implying she held significant sway and power in the congress. Funny how elections can change such things.

"Silly" like telling Rich Iott he should drop his bid for her seat because he "destroyed thousands of jobs".

The man sold his business. When did that become immoral?

You responded as though I made a demand for her to do something about the current water emergency. I did not. The only thing I'd like to see Ms. Kaptur "do" (along with about 500 other members of congress) is retire with her platinum coated congressional benefit package and make room for some fresh thinking.

Meanwhile, she continues to vote in favor of the vast majority of bills designed to grow government and drain our wallets.

Um...yeah.

A person who has been in the same job over three decades, and those are the most egregious offenses you can come up with? Pretty hard-hitting.

I suppose that with any elected official that has served in one spot for that many years, it shouldn't be too hard for both supporters and detractors to find plenty of examples of things that person has done that they like or do not like. Even so, I will say that in the context of what has been going on the past few days, I do appreciate the efforts she has made in the past to try and mitigate this problem before it got to this.

http://healthylakes.org/tag/marcy-kaptur/

Meanwhile, she continues to vote in favor of the vast majority of bills designed to grow government and drain our wallets.

...blah blah blah. Too bad no local Republican can topple her. That party has such a stellar history of shrinking government and leaving my wallet alone.

posted by Sohio on Aug 04, 2014 at 09:03:31 pm     #   1 person liked this

Must have sounded worse than it was meant. :)

I think for folks who have never been out there, or seen it... clarification that it isn't actually in the bay, (which is important for currents especially), is worthwhile. I'm sorry that I sounded like you had never eaten ice cream near the Bono curve and stuff.

I have no more quibbles. That was my one quibble.

posted by justread on Aug 04, 2014 at 09:04:44 pm     #   1 person liked this

justread posted at 09:04:44 PM on Aug 04, 2014:

Must have sounded worse than it was meant. :)

I think for folks who have never been out there, or seen it... clarification that it isn't actually in the bay, (which is important for currents especially), is worthwhile. I'm sorry that I sounded like you had never eaten ice cream near the Bono curve and stuff.

I have no more quibbles. That was my one quibble.

Peace out, brother. I am probably testy after three days of the water crisis shenanigans.

posted by historymike on Aug 04, 2014 at 09:11:25 pm     #  

justread posted at 08:21:26 PM on Aug 04, 2014:

"You know the Maumee Bay, right? The place where Toledo's water intake is located."

I know Maumee Bay very well. Maybe you should get out there sometime.

The point in the lake off of Reno Beach and out from Cooley Canal launch ramp that has the intake crib is about 10 miles to the east of Toledo. The intake crib is several miles east of the eastern most boundary of Maumee Bay, Little Cedar Point. In fact, it is hidden from view until you are nearly clear of the bay altogether and north of the shoreline on the east.

The point in the lake off of Reno Beach and out from Cooley Canal

It's actually a beeline from the mouths of Wolf & Cedar creeks, at Anchor Point; or in actuality, from the pump station at the end of Yondota road (Oregon's station is just to the east, across Wolf Creek from Anchor Point, unlike Toledo, their crib is submerged, and along the same axis, but not as far out).

Cooley is further to the east, and as the crow flies, would represent a backtrack from the intake building to the Toledo facilities. Not to be confused with Ward's canal, which feeds Cooley and can be seen along route 2, just this side of the Bono curve.

posted by Sohio on Aug 04, 2014 at 09:17:09 pm     #  

Mon, Aug 4, 2014 tweets by Ryan Wichman.

7:35 p.m.

Report Info: Tap Water tests over the weekend done by the US EPA found the toxin level to be <.32ppb, drinkable limit is 1ppb (part/billion)

9:01 p.m.

Report Info: It was the city of Toledo that initially looked into a 'no drink advisory' Saturday AM, OH EPA confirmed/recommended.


Excerpts from a Mon, Aug 4, 2014 Vox.com story titled Why toxic algae blooms are taking over Lake Erie - again

Lake Erie had a massive problem with algae blooms in the 1960s and 1970s, with the lake becoming nearly unusable. Decomposing green algae kept washing up on beaches and had to be removed by bulldozers. Blue-green algae was tainting the water supplies of several cities.

So, starting in 1972, the United States and Canada began taking drastic action. The region spent $8 billion upgrading sewage systems around the region, banned certain types of phosphorus-heavy laundry detergents, and pushed to modernize farming practices so as to prevent so much soil and stormwater runoff.

Recently, however, the blooms have been making a comeback. In 1995, blue-green algae (Microcystis aeruginosa) began flaring up in the western part of Lake Erie.

These new blooms are different from the blooms of old: more localized along the shoreline, and with a higher concentration of cyanobacteria (the blue-green algae).

There does seem to be an increase in agricultural runoff of phosphorus — particularly dissolved reactive phosphorus into the Maumee River watershed, which feeds into Lake Erie. That could help feed the algae blooms.

Meanwhile, the Ohio task force report noted that animal feeding operations in the Lake Erie region have become far bigger and denser over the years — with more animals packed into spaces. Cattle and pig manure is another significant source of phosphorus.

Urban runoff isn't nearly as big a factor as farming — especially since 82 percent of the land around the Maumee River is devoted to agriculture. But it's one possible factor.

posted by jr on Aug 04, 2014 at 11:55:10 pm     #  

Sohio posted at 09:17:09 PM on Aug 04, 2014:
justread posted at 08:21:26 PM on Aug 04, 2014:

"You know the Maumee Bay, right? The place where Toledo's water intake is located."

I know Maumee Bay very well. Maybe you should get out there sometime.

The point in the lake off of Reno Beach and out from Cooley Canal launch ramp that has the intake crib is about 10 miles to the east of Toledo. The intake crib is several miles east of the eastern most boundary of Maumee Bay, Little Cedar Point. In fact, it is hidden from view until you are nearly clear of the bay altogether and north of the shoreline on the east.

The point in the lake off of Reno Beach and out from Cooley Canal

It's actually a beeline from the mouths of Wolf & Cedar creeks, at Anchor Point; or in actuality, from the pump station at the end of Yondota road (Oregon's station is just to the east, across Wolf Creek from Anchor Point, unlike Toledo, their crib is submerged, and along the same axis, but not as far out).

Cooley is further to the east, and as the crow flies, would represent a backtrack from the intake building to the Toledo facilities. Not to be confused with Ward's canal, which feeds Cooley and can be seen along route 2, just this side of the Bono curve.

justread...nevermind, you were correct.

Just looking at some maps. I forgot they moved the Yacht Club. Growing up, we knew the canals by reversed names. Technically, you are correct...Anchor Point is on Cooley Canal.

I stand corrected. I withdraw the comment.

posted by Sohio on Aug 05, 2014 at 07:05:07 am     #  

Heck, I think you were also correct.

Close enough that a crow, piloting a Chris Craft from Bayview around the sand bars north of little cedar point would easily find the crib. :)

posted by justread on Aug 05, 2014 at 07:23:26 am     #  

Would you clowns stop foolin' around and just post the lat-long and end all the anxiety.

posted by Mariner on Aug 05, 2014 at 07:26:37 am     #  

Time magazine:
"The water intake for Toledo’s water supply is located right in the middle of the Maumee Bay where the algae bloom moved to."

I stand corrected. Although the last time I was out, it was right where it had always been, offshore of Reno Beach and several miles EAST of the bay, around the horn of little cedar point.

Who moved the dam intake?!?!?

posted by justread on Aug 05, 2014 at 11:47:56 am     #  

justread posted at 11:47:56 AM on Aug 05, 2014:

Time magazine:
"The water intake for Toledo’s water supply is located right in the middle of the Maumee Bay where the algae bloom moved to."

I stand corrected. Although the last time I was out, it was right where it had always been, offshore of Reno Beach and several miles EAST of the bay, around the horn of little cedar point.

Who moved the dam intake?!?!?

You are correct and Time is wrong, justread - the Toledo intake is at least a mile to the east of Maumee Bay proper. Here is a map I found online:

water intakes

posted by historymike on Aug 05, 2014 at 12:22:17 pm     #  

Also, the Toledo water intake was once bombed. A Navy pilot on a training mission once dropped 5-pound bombs ( sans explosive charges) on the water intake crib, according to the September 5, 1954 Toledo Blade:

water intake bombed

posted by historymike on Aug 05, 2014 at 12:33:37 pm     #   1 person liked this

There you go again, historymike...educating us about history... ;)

posted by valbee on Aug 05, 2014 at 12:36:26 pm     #  

I believe it's three miles out, then gets pumped to a station in Jerusalem Township. I think that might actually be a Blade map.

posted by Nolan_Rosenkrans on Aug 05, 2014 at 12:41:39 pm     #  

Nolan_Rosenkrans posted at 12:41:39 PM on Aug 05, 2014:

I believe it's three miles out, then gets pumped to a station in Jerusalem Township. I think that might actually be a Blade map.

Yes, the intake is three miles out. However it doesn't get pumped from the intake to low service. It's actually gravity fed. Then the water is pumped 9 miles from low service to the treatment facility.

posted by justphillips on Aug 05, 2014 at 12:55:59 pm     #  

just wild ass speculation......mostly just curiosity......but could "de-icing"
agents (ie road salt, brine, etc) lead to increased algae levels?

posted by BulldogBuckeye on Aug 05, 2014 at 01:03:42 pm     #  

just wild ass speculation......mostly just curiosity......but could "de-icing"
agents (ie road salt, brine, etc) lead to increased algae levels?

posted by BulldogBuckeye on Aug 05, 2014 at 01:03:42 pm     #  

just wild ass speculation......mostly just curiosity......but could "de-icing"
agents (ie road salt, brine, etc) lead to increased algae levels?

posted by BulldogBuckeye on Aug 05, 2014 at 01:03:52 pm     #  

justphillips posted at 12:55:59 PM on Aug 05, 2014:
Nolan_Rosenkrans posted at 12:41:39 PM on Aug 05, 2014:

I believe it's three miles out, then gets pumped to a station in Jerusalem Township. I think that might actually be a Blade map.

Yes, the intake is three miles out. However it doesn't get pumped from the intake to low service. It's actually gravity fed. Then the water is pumped 9 miles from low service to the treatment facility.

You're right, sorry.

posted by Nolan_Rosenkrans on Aug 05, 2014 at 01:04:18 pm     #  

Potassium permanganate is currently the only chemical that is added out at the intake crib. That chemical is pumped from low service to the intake crib, this helps control the zebra muscles from getting in and clogging any lines. From there carbon is added at low service before being pumped out to the treatment facility. The remaining chemicals are added at the treatment facility.

I have been in the intake crib and would have loved to have seen it when it was actually occupied.

posted by justphillips on Aug 05, 2014 at 01:07:34 pm     #  

It was worse in the 1950s. Lake Erie Sea Monster snatches small child, and it's not the main story.


Time magazine:
"The water intake for Toledo’s water supply is located right in the middle of the Maumee Bay where the algae bloom moved to."

Maybe Time confused the location of Toledo's water intake with the Toledo Harbor Lighthouse, although the lighthouse is probably considered beyond Maumee Bay.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toledo_Harbor_Light

The lighthouse is built on a 20-foot-deep (6 m) stone crib, 8.4 miles (13.5 km) from the mouth of the Maumee River, marking the entrance to the Toledo harbor. It is also approximately 7 miles (11 km) north of Maumee Bay State Park.

41°45'42.0"N
83°19'42.0"W


posted by jr on Aug 05, 2014 at 02:01:57 pm     #  

Finally! Some lat-long I can work with. I was affeared I wasn't going to get back home.

posted by Mariner on Aug 05, 2014 at 02:22:50 pm     #  

This is pretty cool...

https://munchies.vice.com/articles/what-its-like-to-run-a-coffee-shop-during-a-water-ban/

posted by toledolen_ on Aug 05, 2014 at 02:23:19 pm     #  

I love how calm the water is in the Lighthouse picture. Nice pic.

posted by Molsonator on Aug 05, 2014 at 03:15:18 pm     #  

Chlorine breaks it down. Hmmm. They must not have trusted the unwashed masses with that information during the crisis.

"Samples must have chemicals added to neutralize chlorine, so that chlorine is not breaking down any microcystin that might be in each sample before it reaches the lab."

Read more but mostly just stuff you've already read in other articles at http://www.toledoblade.com/local/2014/08/05/Toledo-seeks-return-to-normalcy-after-do-not-drink-water-advisory-lifted.html#zDxJxxvp3blD23I3.99

posted by justread on Aug 05, 2014 at 03:43:31 pm     #  

BulldogBuckeye posted at 01:03:42 PM on Aug 05, 2014:

just wild ass speculation......mostly just curiosity......but could "de-icing"
agents (ie road salt, brine, etc) lead to increased algae levels?

I don't think so...doesn't salt kill plant life?

posted by Sohio on Aug 05, 2014 at 04:05:34 pm     #  

justread posted at 11:47:56 AM on Aug 05, 2014:

Time magazine:
"The water intake for Toledo’s water supply is located right in the middle of the Maumee Bay where the algae bloom moved to."

I stand corrected. Although the last time I was out, it was right where it had always been, offshore of Reno Beach and several miles EAST of the bay, around the horn of little cedar point.

Who moved the dam intake?!?!?

It's fuzzy, but if you look on google maps, you can see it...it's a little white speck.

Cutty Sark?

posted by Sohio on Aug 05, 2014 at 04:08:43 pm     #  

Anyone notice the incredible amount of chlorine in the water the last couple of days?

I thought I was imagining it, but after showering this evening, my eye have that - just got out of the YMCA pool feeling.

posted by SensorG on Aug 14, 2014 at 11:39:55 pm     #  

SensorG posted at 11:39:55 PM on Aug 14, 2014:

Anyone notice the incredible amount of chlorine in the water the last couple of days?

I thought I was imagining it, but after showering this evening, my eye have that - just got out of the YMCA pool feeling.

At the Glass City Mashers meeting on Thursday night, I was told that the chlorine level was increased in Toledo water recently. The person said that the odor is very noticeable.

I was surprised to hear that because I had not observed a change. I checked our water when I got home, and it still smelled and tasted like it has in the past. No difference to me.

But others have noticed the dramatic chlorine increase. For some reason, it's not in our water yet.

posted by jr on Aug 15, 2014 at 12:16:33 am     #  

I wonder if it is stronger closer to the plant.

I assume chlorine is bad for brewing.

posted by justread on Aug 15, 2014 at 06:55:54 am     #  

justread posted at 06:55:54 AM on Aug 15, 2014:

I wonder if it is stronger closer to the plant.

I assume chlorine is bad for brewing.

Yep. Rule number one: Filter out the chlorine.

Still no noticeable chlorine increase with our water. Can they control the chlorine per location?

posted by jr on Aug 15, 2014 at 07:30:56 am     #  

jr posted at 12:16:33 AM on Aug 15, 2014:
SensorG posted at 11:39:55 PM on Aug 14, 2014:

Anyone notice the incredible amount of chlorine in the water the last couple of days?

I thought I was imagining it, but after showering this evening, my eye have that - just got out of the YMCA pool feeling.

At the Glass City Mashers meeting on Thursday night, I was told that the chlorine level was increased in Toledo water recently. The person said that the odor is very noticeable.

I was surprised to hear that because I had not observed a change. I checked our water when I got home, and it still smelled and tasted like it has in the past. No difference to me.

But others have noticed the dramatic chlorine increase. For some reason, it's not in our water yet.

My wife, whose sense of smell approaches the level of a superhuman ability, noticed a decidedly strong chlorine odor soon after the water supply was declared safe again for consumption. This was before the news of increased chlorine levels was announced, so I doubt this perception was psychosomatic.

I, however, have a lousy sense of smell, and Toledo water smells the same to me.

posted by historymike on Aug 15, 2014 at 08:49:48 am     #  

Most definitely an increase in the chlorine level - the tap water smells like my pool. But, I'm ok with that. I'll gladly accept higher chlorine levels if it keeps the water flowing.

We have multiple levels of filtration for our drinking and cooking water.

posted by Foodie on Aug 15, 2014 at 09:28:37 am     #  

Have you ever seen a Commie drink a glass of water? It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hard-core Commie works!

posted by Johio83 on Aug 15, 2014 at 09:40:56 am     #  

There is an article in the Detroit News today, warning of the massive amount of storm and sewer run-off coming our way due to the torrential rains the other day. It says this is going to feed the algae in Lake Erie like a Golden Corral buffet

posted by Hoops on Aug 15, 2014 at 10:13:14 am     #  

Coming our way? We dumped an impressive amount inside our own city limits.

posted by justread on Aug 15, 2014 at 10:32:30 am     #  

If you use Twitter, @ecowriterohio is live tweeting Lake Erie Conference.

posted by paulhem on Aug 15, 2014 at 10:39:18 am     #  

Detroit is constantly dumping, the only thing that has changed is that they are telling us.

posted by nana on Aug 15, 2014 at 11:45:22 am     #   1 person liked this

Breaking News from The Blade - microcystin levels elevated, brought down with chemicals.

http://www.toledoblade.com/local/2014/08/16/Microcystin-levels-elevated-at-Collins-Park-plant.html

posted by MsUnderstood on Aug 16, 2014 at 08:36:22 pm     #  

The city posted the info to its Facebook page at 5:50 p.m.

https://www.facebook.com/cityoftoledo/posts/746455255418111

posted by jr on Aug 16, 2014 at 09:24:32 pm     #  

jesus

posted by upso on Aug 16, 2014 at 11:11:23 pm     #  

So, like a couple of weeks ago... but without the panic and over-reaction. Although I honestly wondered if it was Bob Reinbolt heading to Collins Park when I heard a siren in the middle of the night.

posted by justread on Aug 17, 2014 at 06:31:58 am     #  

Those were two sets of safety forces. One headed to Krogers and the other to Wendy's.

posted by Mariner on Aug 17, 2014 at 07:42:57 am     #  

Any of you who have used chlorine commercially realize the detrimental effect on metal. Next drama: pipes and valves splittin' and a poppin'.

posted by Mariner on Aug 17, 2014 at 07:50:47 am     #  

"Only the guy who isn't rowing has time to rock the boat."

posted by Mariner on Aug 17, 2014 at 07:55:26 am     #   1 person liked this

The time to act is upon us. We can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, Communist subversion and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

posted by madjack on Aug 17, 2014 at 07:56:02 am     #   1 person liked this

Amen. Time to grab the cowboy hat and ride that nuke straight down. I just KNEW it was all a conspiracy.

posted by Mariner on Aug 17, 2014 at 08:46:05 am     #  

posted by MIJeff on Aug 17, 2014 at 12:14:15 pm     #  

Mariner posted at 08:46:05 AM on Aug 17, 2014:

Amen. Time to grab the cowboy hat and ride that nuke straight down. I just KNEW it was all a conspiracy.

Otherwise how could they have known to name it "Collins" park 5 years before D. Michael was born?

posted by justread on Aug 17, 2014 at 01:13:39 pm     #  

I think he needs to get out there an mow the lawn and plant some flowers in his park hehehe

posted by MIJeff on Aug 17, 2014 at 01:48:16 pm     #  

I have not sensed any chlorine in the water, though I have at times in previous years. Disinfectant chlorine in treating water carries its own risk. A byproduct of chlorine in treating drinking water is Trihalomethanes, which causes all kinds of health problems over time, including cancer.

posted by renegade on Aug 17, 2014 at 03:22:00 pm     #  

Chlorine in water will remove itself if left open to air for a while, or by using a bubbler it will leave even faster.

posted by MIJeff on Aug 17, 2014 at 03:41:13 pm     #  

Info on how Minnesota deals with Microcystin-LR in their drinking water supply: http://www.health.state.mn.us/divs/eh/risk/guidance/gw/mclrinfo.pdf

Please note:

posted by upso on Aug 18, 2014 at 12:11:28 pm     #   3 people liked this

upso posted at 12:11:28 PM on Aug 18, 2014:

Info on how Minnesota deals with Microcystin-LR in their drinking water supply: http://www.health.state.mn.us/divs/eh/risk/guidance/gw/mclrinfo.pdf

Please note:

From the same source:

"This guidance is lower than current laboratory detection limits."

Am I understanding this correctly? Don't drink it if it is more than .04 ppb, but we don't have a test that will give us that low of a reading.

posted by MrsArcher on Aug 18, 2014 at 03:02:30 pm     #  

Wag the Dog MrsArcher.

posted by Mariner on Aug 18, 2014 at 05:22:34 pm     #  

You should probably hold off washing the Dog, however.

We need you to conserve.

Although it seems that with their mixing equipment intact and some Alum in stock (two things we couldn't say not long ago) they can treat the water.
I mean, the freaking FALSE POSITIVE not withstanding....
Would have been better if they said "Go back to not thinking about it. We fixed the mixing thingy and ordered the alum we ran out of. We'll be more careful."

posted by justread on Aug 18, 2014 at 05:45:56 pm     #   2 people liked this

omg, how refreshing that would be! :)

posted by nana on Aug 18, 2014 at 06:26:39 pm     #  

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