Toledo Talk

Skanky water update????

Weren't we promised an update last night?

What are the plans to resolve this problem?

Should I just move to Mexico where there are just as many Mexican restaurants as toledo but not as many dollar stores or urban blight?

created by a_fan on Aug 03, 2014 at 09:10:50 am     Directory     Comments: 20

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Yeah, you can definitely drink the water there.

posted by viola on Aug 03, 2014 at 09:35:57 am     #  

and they have better beaches

posted by Mariner on Aug 03, 2014 at 10:11:21 am     #  

And active waterfronts.

posted by a_fan on Aug 03, 2014 at 10:16:43 am     #  

9:44 am Aug 3 tweet by Ignazio Messina

Mayor @DMCToledo says water crisis is far from over more tests need to be done. Says @JohnKasich is on his way to #Toledo

9:02 am Aug 3 Toledo Blade tweet

#Toledo water test results face delay. Process of gathering samples took longer than originally expected, mayor says http://tol.bz/1kfltCn


City of Toledo Facebook page:
https://facebook.com/cityoftoledo

I thought that the City of Toledo did a decent to good job of providing info or updates on its Facebook page yesterday. I think that it was one of the first places where the issue was first announced. I might have preferred a bit more frequent posting even if no new info was available.

No new info is an update.

And people had plenty of questions yesterday, regarding the use of water for other purposes. So it seemed like the city could have made a few more posts yesterday. But their use of Facebook was decent enough.

But ... and this is my only complaint thus far about the city because I'm disinterested in the ankle-biting politics that seemed to begin minutes after the drinking ban was announced. I think plenty of time exists in the future to bicker. To me, the most important thing right now is information about the current issue

And my one complaint is probably minor, but since I seem to spend a fair amount of time in the internet tubes, especially on the smartphone like with creating this post, this irks me. It's 2014.

The city's last Facebook post was around 8:00 pm last night, now over 14 hours ago.

That's bad, in my opinion.

I know that it's Sunday, and this is city government, but the Internet and social media do not take days off.

I don't think that posting once an hour or once every two hours is too much.

I assume that some small nuggets of useful info have surfaced since 8:00 pm Aug 2.

posted by jr on Aug 03, 2014 at 10:33:03 am     #  

City Blog,
Friday Aug 2, 2014 10:00 pm - No news
Friday Aug 3, 2014 12:00 am - No news
Friday Aug 3, 2014 02:00 am - No news
Friday Aug 3, 2014 04:00 am - No news
Friday Aug 3, 2014 06:00 am - No news
Friday Aug 3, 2014 08:00 am - No news

There feel better?, I don't understand why with it being a state of emergency that there hasn't been any results, or even the appearance of any haste in getting the water tested.
I for one would like to see results, even if they are bad, at least it shows they are doing what they can, and there is a definite reason to continue the don't consume order on the water.
I agree there will be plenty of time to roast some politicians later, what they people need now is reassurance that people are working on it and that it is still necessary. Had a friend drink like 4 glasses of it Friday and now has diarrhea and other symptoms, my brother took him some gallon jugs from his well.
Even if they don't have any answers or prognosis on when it will be fixed, say that, say you don't know, say you cant estimate, say you don't have ANY results yet, just keep the people informed.

posted by MIJeff on Aug 03, 2014 at 12:06:03 pm     #  

I work with some laboratory people ... it is laughable to think that samples could be sent for testing to universities (or elsewhere) on a weekend, no prior arrangement in place, and that results would be expected the same day, or by midnight, or by the next morning.

Also, it seems like our water department employees found the problem, identified it, and got the word out in a timely fashion. So what is the value in waiting for test results from offsite laboratories? Something here I don't understand ...

posted by viola on Aug 03, 2014 at 12:07:35 pm     #  

viola posted at 12:07:35 PM on Aug 03, 2014:

I work with some laboratory people ... it is laughable to think that samples could be sent for testing to universities (or elsewhere) on a weekend, no prior arrangement in place, and that results would be expected the same day, or by midnight, or by the next morning.

Also, it seems like our water department employees found the problem, identified it, and got the word out in a timely fashion. So what is the value in waiting for test results from offsite laboratories? Something here I don't understand ...

Oh I don't know, viola. Maybe because it's WATER? It's a vital resource? People have been giving it to their babies and are kind of freaking out about it. I'm glad you find it "laughable". Universities have no on-call or emergency procedures in place for situations like this? That's a little hard to believe.

posted by dell_diva on Aug 03, 2014 at 12:20:16 pm     #   1 person liked this

viola posted at 12:07:35 PM on Aug 03, 2014:

I work with some laboratory people ... it is laughable to think that samples could be sent for testing to universities (or elsewhere) on a weekend, no prior arrangement in place, and that results would be expected the same day, or by midnight, or by the next morning.

Also, it seems like our water department employees found the problem, identified it, and got the word out in a timely fashion. So what is the value in waiting for test results from offsite laboratories? Something here I don't understand ...

You don't know that there is not a prior arrangement in place, and I disagree that a university or other testing lab would so 'no' to a request for ASAP action given the severity of the issue at hand.

As far as waiting for off-site test results - I believe the issue was that Toledo testing gave contradictory results, so they want other places to test to confirm or invalidate the contradictory results.

While I am not happy with the lack of information or explanation, I understand that more accurate tests may take more time; whereas the local test that came back with different results was a quickie test the more accurate one may take hours. (Isn't there a blood test like that? I can't remember which one - maybe pregnancy-related diabetes. Anyway it makes sense to me.)

posted by MrsArcher on Aug 03, 2014 at 12:24:36 pm     #  

At 11:35 a.m. EDT on Sun, Aug 3, 2014, the City of Toledo posted a new update to its Facebook page.

Some excerpts:

  • The Governor, City of Toledo, Lucas County Emergency Management Agency, Lucas County, surrounding cities, law enforcement, and health and safety personnel are working to resolve this issue as quickly as possible.
  • Governor Kasich and his staff along with US EPA, Ohio EPA, The City of Toledo, Lucas County, Lucas County Emergency Management Agency conducted a conference call this morning to discuss the ongoing operations. All distribution sites are up and running.
  • To reassure the public as to the volume of the water being received at distribution centers, below is a snapshot of some of the water we are currently getting to distribution sites:
    • 33,000 gallons of potable water have been produced by the Ohio National Guard
    • 15,000 gallons in bladders (collapsible containers)
    • 9,000 cases of water
    • Additional deliveries are arriving on a regular basis
  • Any residents, who were provided water bladders in milk crates, are asked to return the milk crates to the distribution center where they picked them up.
  • Water at retail stores have been restocked and we will continue to keep water flowing.
  • Restaurants are to continue to remain closed this morning unless they can use bottled water for cooking, washing of dishes, and other proper areas of food preparation.

posted by jr on Aug 03, 2014 at 12:53:07 pm     #  

I think what bothers me is that yesterday we heard reports of contradictory results, but we've not heard anything about how the results elsewhere matched up (or not) to those results. And this morning, what we heard is that the results seem to be heading in a positive direction. To me, there seems to be some information in the middle missing.

I'm not saying it's good or bad information. I'm saying I don't feel like any previous questions addressed have actually been answered. As another poster said, the test results seem to continually get kicked further down the road. Last night we were told a second sample was getting sent to Cincinnati and when questioned why, the response was "because they asked for it." It would seem, based on the press conference today, that they asked for it in order to see if there had been a change in the levels. But that information was certainly not conveyed last night.

At the very least, "because they asked for it" seems tantamount to "because I said so" in terms of providing explanation, and is not the type of response that I want from one of my elected officials.

posted by valbee on Aug 03, 2014 at 12:57:04 pm     #   1 person liked this

Does anyone know if this is something that they routinely/monthly/weekly/daily test for?

posted by gamegrrl on Aug 03, 2014 at 04:11:03 pm     #   1 person liked this

gamegrrl posted at 04:11:03 PM on Aug 03, 2014:

Does anyone know if this is something that they routinely/monthly/weekly/daily test for?

That's one of the pieces of information that would be easy to give out but yet they fail to. Why?

I do know I caught a news blurb that said the water department saw something earlier on Friday, but did not specify when earlier or at what point and what exactly caused them to issue an alert at 1 am.

posted by MrsArcher on Aug 03, 2014 at 05:52:21 pm     #  

I guess what we have really done is feel the effects of the continual "dumping" of every city employee reject into the water department. The Blade has an article about Oregon's water department which also suggests a theory on what happened in Toledo. From the sounds of it, the water could have been contaminated days before we were made aware of the situation. Have there actually been any reports of anyone actually getting sick from the water? Not one person mistakenly drank the water and got as sick as the warnings said we would?

posted by hockeyfan on Aug 04, 2014 at 01:58:53 am     #  

gamegrrl posted at 04:11:03 PM on Aug 03, 2014:

Does anyone know if this is something that they routinely/monthly/weekly/daily test for?

According to this interview, it's checked daily unlike other cities

http://www.13abc.com/clip/10433107/undefined

posted by odnation on Aug 04, 2014 at 02:04:02 am     #  

I guess what we have really done is feel the effects of the continual "dumping" of every city employee reject into the water department.

You do know that every water treatment plant operator has to have a state-issued license, right? And every chemist has to have a degree?

posted by Sohio on Aug 04, 2014 at 02:04:24 am     #  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zRjfq6FBEY

posted by odnation on Aug 04, 2014 at 02:12:36 am     #  

Sohio posted at 02:04:24 AM on Aug 04, 2014:

I guess what we have really done is feel the effects of the continual "dumping" of every city employee reject into the water department.

You do know that every water treatment plant operator has to have a state-issued license, right? And every chemist has to have a degree?

You do know that state-issued license holders and chemists with degrees could still make mistakes or errors?

posted by hockeyfan on Aug 04, 2014 at 02:17:01 am     #  

http://epa.ohio.gov/ddagw/enforcement.aspx#113852-certified-broperators

And, as you can see here, there are pretty stiff penalties for screwing up...including jail time, in some cases.

So, the idea that the city is just dumping undesirable morons into the treatment division of the water department doesn't really stand up. It's hard to get those credentials. It's hard to maintain them. The stakes are high if you screw up once you have them (or BEFORE you fully obtain them, as the case may be). And once they are gone, you can't get them back. It's not something that just any clown can show up and do, believe me.

Are you sure you're not confusing the treatment side with the billing side?

posted by Sohio on Aug 04, 2014 at 02:19:10 am     #  

hockeyfan posted at 02:17:01 AM on Aug 04, 2014:
Sohio posted at 02:04:24 AM on Aug 04, 2014:

I guess what we have really done is feel the effects of the continual "dumping" of every city employee reject into the water department.

You do know that every water treatment plant operator has to have a state-issued license, right? And every chemist has to have a degree?

You do know that state-issued license holders and chemists with degrees could still make mistakes or errors?

Any human can make mistakes or errors. That's not what was suggested. The suggestion was that this crisis is the result of half-wits from elsewhere in the city government being constantly dumped into the water department and inevitably screwing the pooch.

My point was that any person working in that capacity will, after training and certification, start at at least the same minimum level of qualification and competence you'd find at any facility in Ohio. A rookie or a less intelligent individual may possess less general acumen than a veteran of the industry; but they WILL perform to at least that minimum acceptable standard, or they will NOT be certified and allowed to work in the first place, and they'll face dire consequences for negligence. It's not a perfect mechanism, mind you, by any means. But, by and large, that system is in place to filter out incompetents, and it does a fairly decent job of it. That is not to say nobody ever slips through cracks, but to suggest that any city could habitually toss up imbeciles to haplessly mis-operate a water treatment plant with no notice taken by the EPA is a bit silly. The fuckups DO get caught, and they DO pay. It's documented.

posted by Sohio on Aug 04, 2014 at 02:31:18 am     #  

HF, The Hub worked for the City for 34 years in Solid Waste. Sometimes, people did get sent to Water Rec as light-duty if they can't dump garbage due to injuries or whatever but those are NOT the high-standard chemist jobs, they are below the bottom rung of the ladder. Think 'raking muck'. :)

posted by nana on Aug 04, 2014 at 07:30:43 am     #