Toledo Talk

Big CYA going on with the poison water fiasco

I can hardly believe what's going on. How about letting us see all the raw results from every water test. We are not idiots. Someone in the Toledo Water Plant just got an erroneous result and reported it then all hell broke loose. I don't believe anyone was ever in danger and I believe the Mayor now knows it. I realize that after the City, State and all of the volunteers spent so much time and money, it's hard to just say oops. but really does anyone think you can flush the system out with 15 minutes of running the water in your home. It's total bullshit. The Mayor is such an idiot. He could have said run the water for at least two hours a day for a week, then you could begin using it as normal. This would have saved face and people like me may not be as skeptical. If there was ever any "Bad" water in the system, it's still there. So believe what you want, but for me it was just a normal fuck-up and the whole thing was blown out of proportion. The mayor and the health department idiot couldn't figure out how to tell everyone they made a mistake. I realize it's better to be safe than sorry, but c'mon start telling it like is. "Ready"- "Fire" -"Aim".
BTW, D Minus Collins "Quite Frankly" is quite the orator isn't he.

created by AmericanPie on Aug 04, 2014 at 08:54:58 pm     Comments: 127

source      versions      1 person liked this


Comments ... #

You can see the test reports now on WSPD's website.

posted by Mike21 on Aug 04, 2014 at 09:24:36 pm     #  

I don't see anything in that water report that 3 fingers of Cheat Scotch won't cure....

posted by rch101 on Aug 04, 2014 at 09:53:17 pm     #   2 people liked this

CHEAP... Scotch

posted by rch101 on Aug 04, 2014 at 09:53:47 pm     #  

Cutty Sark?

posted by Sohio on Aug 04, 2014 at 09:54:47 pm     #  

Go slow Sohio. There's a ship on that bottle. :}

posted by Mariner on Aug 05, 2014 at 06:00:48 am     #  

I just wanted to know if it was cheap enough...

I want to make that ship rock back and forth...you follow me?

posted by Sohio on Aug 05, 2014 at 07:06:15 am     #  

With you. Would far and away prefer a touch of Johnnie Walker Blue but can't on a beer budget.

posted by Mariner on Aug 05, 2014 at 07:10:25 am     #  

That's why I love Toledo Talk. From water to booze in three comments.

:-)

posted by Anniecski on Aug 05, 2014 at 05:04:07 pm     #   1 person liked this

Mariner posted at 07:10:25 AM on Aug 05, 2014:

With you. Would far and away prefer a touch of Johnnie Walker Blue but can't on a beer budget.

That's ok. With a far and away reference, you get Whisky.

posted by justread on Aug 05, 2014 at 06:07:01 pm     #  

mmmmm...try it

posted by justareviewer on Aug 05, 2014 at 08:18:43 pm     #  

Ok kiddies, Major Collins has declared a conservation effort.

Because we pay so gottdammed much for water, live in the great lakes, and will pay either way... he'd like us to suspend:

Lawn watering.
Car washing.
Long showers.
Laundry loads that aren't full.
Dishwashers.

You know, "what people should be doing anyway."

After all, it will "reduce our chances of having another problem."

Threaten, restrict, terrorize, TAX.
Threaten, restrict, terrorize... TAX.

Next: water usage czar, water usage police, water cameras.
HIGHER TAXES FOR WATER USERS.

I am so over this jackass cop posing as a leader.

He is a bigger force making me consider leaving town than my piss poor home values or the blight.

He is probably already planning our next crisis. And then, of course, he'll have winter. Winter is great for pseudo-martial law games for incompetent leaders.

posted by justread on Aug 05, 2014 at 08:22:18 pm     #   7 people liked this

I ain't doing jack-shit until councilman Ford proposes an algae authority.

Since I've only recorded one-inch of rain over the past six weeks, I'm watering my produce garden mighty well.

posted by jr on Aug 05, 2014 at 08:37:40 pm     #   6 people liked this

I water my lawn. Otherwise it gets all "blighty."

Now that I think of it, I get rid of my own yard waste (they used to collect it), I get rid of my own trash in excess of that one bin, I had to shovel the street last winter just to get off the block, and I bought a bag of cold patch for the hole in the street out front. Last year, I had to get rid of my own leaves. If a bad guy comes, I'll need to protect myself. Now, I have to buy bottled water to drink, and can't even use the tap crap for household purposes.

I guess there is still the fire department. THE ONE thing that the city hasn't thrown back on me while I pay more tax than ever.

You know... I should get some more extinguishers, just in case.

Trying to figure out why I live in a city at all. 5 or 6 grand in payroll and property taxes for what? For the chance to live in a higher crime area?

posted by justread on Aug 05, 2014 at 08:48:43 pm     #   6 people liked this

justread posted at 08:48:43 PM on Aug 05, 2014:

I water my lawn. Otherwise it gets all "blighty."

Now that I think of it, I get rid of my own yard waste (they used to collect it), I get rid of my own trash in excess of that one bin, I had to shovel the street last winter just to get off the block, and I bought a bag of cold patch for the hole in the street out front. Last year, I had to get rid of my own leaves. If a bad guy comes, I'll need to protect myself. Now, I have to buy bottled water to drink, and can't even use the tap crap for household purposes.

I guess there is still the fire department. THE ONE thing that the city hasn't thrown back on me while I pay more tax than ever.

You know... I should get some more extinguishers, just in case.

Trying to figure out why I live in a city at all. 5 or 6 grand in payroll and property taxes for what? For the chance to live in a higher crime area?

You and me both, brother. I plowed the entire street and corners in my little patch of urban heaven all winter because the trucks took forever to get to my street (or, as in some cases, never arrived at all). Then I get a "special assessment" notice in the mail the other day, and for the piss-poor services the city provides I get to pay an extra $120 for the year because of the heavy snowfall.

The street sweepers have not hit my street in years, so I am out there with my broom and dustpan every day (no kidding). Like you I am known to shell out for cold patch to fix the potholes that never seem to get repaired no matter how many times I call the pothole hotline. We are on a pitch-and-stone street, and it has been at least seven years since the city dumped a bunch of rocks on my lawn put down a new layer of pavement (we have been "scheduled" for a new layer something like three years in a row, but the city has apparently been raiding the roads budget to balance the books).

The city screwed up the timing on leaf pickup last fall, and the result was that going into Christmas Day (when I had a house full of guests coming over) I had to shovel and clear mounds of orange-brown leafy sludge from several houses so my guests would not have to walk in slimy muck when they parked.

We have two houses in the neighborhood that are vacant and unattended, and the city has not been able to cut the grass at either property all year. The houses are several blocks away, but I have to drive past them coming home from work, and it irks me that the calls never seem to get followed up with actual "service."

I have lived in the metropolitan centers of every place I have ever lived (Detroit, Dallas, and Toledo) but in recent months I am really starting to question why I continue to deal with the aggravation of living in a city with such poor public services.

posted by historymike on Aug 05, 2014 at 09:29:01 pm     #   2 people liked this

Ah yes. Chip and seal. Stones and dust for the first year followed by the plows shooting them in the lawn followed by 5 years of potholes. I know it well.

posted by justread on Aug 05, 2014 at 09:33:04 pm     #  

But, somehow, somewhere, they find plenty of $$ for completely non-essential bullshit. Pools - that closed .......Saturday?? Why did they bother?

$30k here, $50k there, $100 large over there. Pretty soon we're talking real money - for non-essential crap while our tap water goes south along with the rest of our infrastructure.

But, he'll be re-elected - by a wide margin. Because that's just how this city rolls you know.

posted by Foodie on Aug 05, 2014 at 10:18:47 pm     #   1 person liked this

I guess there is still the fire department. THE ONE thing that the city hasn't thrown back on me while I pay more tax than ever.

Oh, but they have - the city has BSL transport that they soft bill for which means city residents' will be billed for an ambulance ride; if they have insurance, insurance pays; if no insurance it gets written off. So your insurance will go up because they have to pay out more. Another hidden tax.

posted by MrsArcher on Aug 05, 2014 at 10:25:41 pm     #   1 person liked this

75% of registered voters in the City of Toledo who didn't vote bear responsibility, those who voted for Collins, who is on track to be Toledo's most incompetent Mayor, bear responsibility. Years of incompetent leadership from the likes of Carty & Jack Ford bear responsibility. The only mayor of any worth since the new strong mayor system took effect in 1994 was Mike Bell and Toledo chose not to re-elect him for no good reason. Bravo!

posted by LoveToledo on Aug 05, 2014 at 11:33:15 pm     #   2 people liked this

I voted for Bell, and I'm a Conservative. Bell has a conservative streak in him, which the democrats' party won't hold still for.

posted by Wulf on Aug 05, 2014 at 11:48:35 pm     #  

I voted for Bell, and I'm a Conservative. Bell has a conservative streak in him, which the democrats' party won't hold still for.

posted by Wulf on Aug 05, 2014 at 11:48:57 pm     #  

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

posted by Wulf on Aug 05, 2014 at 11:50:51 pm     #  

justread posted at 08:22:18 PM on Aug 05, 2014:

Ok kiddies, Major Collins has declared a conservation effort.

Because we pay so gottdammed much for water, live in the great lakes, and will pay either way... he'd like us to suspend:

Lawn watering.
Car washing.

Long showers.

Laundry loads that aren't full.

Dishwashers.

You know, "what people should be doing anyway."

After all, it will "reduce our chances of having another problem."

Threaten, restrict, terrorize, TAX.
Threaten, restrict, terrorize... TAX.

Next: water usage czar, water usage police, water cameras.
HIGHER TAXES FOR WATER USERS.

I am so over this jackass cop posing as a leader.

He is a bigger force making me consider leaving town than my piss poor home values or the blight.

He is probably already planning our next crisis. And then, of course, he'll have winter. Winter is great for pseudo-martial law games for incompetent leaders.

Except...he really didn't ask you to "suspend" any of that.

He asked that you: Reduce home water usage by taking shorter showers, turning off the water promptly, washing only full loads of laundry and dishes, running washing machines and dishwashers on “efficiency” modes, and saving large water-using activities for low-demand times of the day, such as the evening

That's REDUCE, not suspend, drama queen. And it's OPTIONAL.

But you're right...they are "things you should be doing anyway." You pay for water...why would you run a washing machine that wasn't full?

I know you have to embellish things in order to make anything resembling an interesting point, but rest easy, justread. He can't force you to make any sacrifices, and the fact is, you don't have to. You keep on doing whatever you're doing...you're fine. Nobody is going to ask you to sacrifice anything for any person or any cause. You go on using as much water as you wish, and while you're at it, dump a pallet or two of phosphoric fertilizer on your lawn. They say that's one cause of algae blooms, but THEY'RE FULL OF SHIT, justread! They just want to come between you and a lush, green lawn.

After all, it will "reduce our chances of having another problem."

It will reduce, not eliminate, those chances. You are correct. The request for water conservation stems from upgrades going on at the plant. But those upgrades really shouldn't mean you have to go without a nice, clean, sparkling car in your driveway. So piss on 'em, am I right?

The nerve of that guy, asking you to conserve water. That was exactly what Hitler did.

posted by Sohio on Aug 06, 2014 at 12:04:43 am     #   5 people liked this

Collins said the rest of the season, drunk sounding asshole version of Sohio.

posted by justread on Aug 06, 2014 at 12:11:30 am     #   1 person liked this

1. WTVG has [what I assume is] the verbatim statement from the mayor. He explicitly says "the next four days." He also uses the word "ask," not "DEMAND" or "ORDER". The link is above. Is there some other press release I'm not seeing?

2. DRUNK? Sez you. You're only saying that because I keep name-dropping a common middle-shelf brand of blended scotch. Me not drunk. I only drink on weeknights. What day is this...?

posted by Sohio on Aug 06, 2014 at 12:59:44 am     #  

It's not just for four days while repairs are made.

The water conservation suggestion and in some case the no usage of water are recommended for the rest of August and most likely into September.

Excerpts - Aug 6, 2014 - Toledo Blade - Mayor tells water users to conserve all summer

Toledo’s mayor on Tuesday urged residents to conserve water for the remainder of the summer as the toxic algae bloom in Lake Erie remains a threat to the city’s drinking-water supply.

The mayor also asked water users to refrain from watering their lawns or irrigating fields.

They also should stop washing their cars at home, the mayor said.

Water conservation is necessary to reduce stress on the Collins Park Water Treatment Plant.

Less demand means a slower flow rate and will allow chemicals used to neutralize algae to work as water makes its way through the city’s multistaged treatment system.

Mr. Collins said he did not plan to compel people to conserve water, but would instead rely on voluntary compliance.

Officials from surrounding communities that use Toledo’s water service said they would alert their residents about the call for water conservation.


About the current testing:

Tests on Tuesday did not detect the toxin microcystin, a product of algae blooms that prompted the city to issue its advisory.

Previously, the city tested for microcystin weekly. It is now testing for the toxin every day, and will continue to do so while algae is considered a problem.


About last weekend:

City officials explained the crisis began with elevated microcystin test readings between 5:30 p.m. and 6 p.m. Friday.

The city contacted the Ohio Environmental Protection Agency, which advised the city to conduct a different test.

That test took between four and five hours, and the results came around midnight, when the city decided to issue the do-not-drink advisory.

After authorities decided to issue the do-not-drink alert at about 1 a.m. Saturday, the news was first communicated by a posting on Toledo’s Facebook page [at 1:21 a.m.]

The mayor’s assistant Lisa Ward notified the media about 1:45 a.m. in an email, which she followed up with calls to the television stations. Shortly after that, she contacted the sheriff to notify the Lucas County Emergency Management Agency.

~45 minutes after authorities decided to issue the alert?

The agency then sent text alerts to residents who had signed up for such emergency notices.

Mr. Collins said he had not contacted mayors or public officials from other suburban communities that use Toledo water. “We didn't call the mayors at three o’clock in the morning and tell them,” Mr. Collins said.

?????

The media were contacted. Text alerts were sent to subscribers. But the mayors of other communities were not contacted directly. That seems like blatant negligence by Collins.

I would think that being stirred awake at 3:00 a.m. (about two hours after the ban was first announced) for a water crisis would come with the territory of being mayor.

I'm guessing those mayors were rousted from sleep anyway by other people who found out by other means.

Officials at the two largest health systems in Toledo, ProMedica and Mercy, also did not receive a call from the city.

?????

From the original notice:
http://toledo.oh.gov/news/2014/08/urgent-water-notice/

Consuming water containing algal toxins may result in abnormal liver function, diarrhea, vomiting, nausea, numbness or dizziness.


Back to the Aug 6 Blade story:

Mercy’s media relations coordinator, Sarah Velliquette, said the hospital was alerted at 1:52 a.m. when the security department received a text alert.

ProMedica spokesman Serena Smith said the hospital system learned of the do-not-drink order from an Internet posting at about 2 a.m.


About other means of warning people:

The mayor dismissed the idea that the emergency siren system could have been used to notify residents because he said Lucas County owns the sirens and decides how they are used.

A more intelligent response by Collins would have been to say that nobody considered using the Civil Defense Sirens because we assumed the sirens were only used for tornado warnings, and this water ban thing was a new issue.

Collins's excuse makes no sense. Lucas County "owns" the sirens? Who is Lucas County? To me, it's the citizens, many who receive Toledo water.

I believe the sheriff has the authority to sound the sirens as he or she sees fit.

The Lucas County Sheriff's office is headquartered in downtown Toledo. How hard would it have been to contact the sheriff's office and make the suggestion to use the sirens as yet another way to warn the citizens?

The sheriff's office issues the county-wide snow emergency levels. Last winter, Collins somehow found the sheriff to get the sheriff to issue Level 3 snow emergencies.

Collins did not stand back and say something like, "Lucas County owns the Snow Emergencies and decides how they are used."

Jan 5, 2014 - Toledo Blade - Lucas County goes under Level 3 emergency as heavy snow, temperatures continue to fall

The warning means most people are prohibited from driving on Lucas County streets; those who ignore the order could be arrested.

The announcement was issued through Toledo Mayor D. Michael Collins.

But snow emergencies are issued by the sheriff. It's a county function.

Feb 4, 2014 - Toledo Blade - Lucas Co. officials concerned about weather forecast

The sheriff, Toledo Mayor D. Michael Collins, and Carol Contrada, president of the Board of County Commissioners, said they will hold a 5 a.m. conference call to decide whether the Level 3 winter emergency should continue.

Apparently, no other mayors were involved in the Level 3 snow emergency decisions. Just Toledo's mayor, even though it's a county-wide issue.

Sirens for algae, maybe that's one of those coordination things that county and municipal governments in Monroe, Fulton, Wood, and Lucas counties should address someday.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_defense_siren

A civil defense siren (also colloquially referred to as an air raid or tornado siren) is a siren used to provide emergency population warning of approaching danger.

Attention or Alert Warning — A 3 to 5 minute steady signal from sirens, horns, or other devices. Local government officials may authorize use of this signal to alert the public of peacetime emergencies.

Besides any other meaning or requirement for action as determined by local government officials, the Attention or Alert signal will indicate to all persons in the United States, "Turn on your radio or television and listen for essential emergency information".

posted by jr on Aug 06, 2014 at 02:13:18 am     #   5 people liked this

The statement on the city's website seems to indicate that the extra conservation measures should be applied while repairs are made and not for the rest of the summer or the rest of the algae bloom season.

http://toledo.oh.gov/news/2014/08/water-conservation/

Excerpts:

Toledo Mayor D. Michael Collins urged Toledo and area residents to reduce water usage as the city conducts repairs at the Collins Park Water Treatment Plan to help address the current challenge faced by the blue-green algae bloom occurring in Lake Erie.

“We’re getting through this challenge by working together and that teamwork will continue to serve us well. We all need to pull together now to reduce our water usage for the next four days in order to conduct some maintenance that will keep our water system in strong operating condition through the current algal bloom but over the long term as well,” said Collins.

City water crews are conducting repairs on one of the plant’s six “floculators” which mix raw water from the lake with treatment chemicals that help remove sediment and algae. The repair is expected to take four days.

The suggested measures as listed on the city's website:

  • Avoid lawn-watering, turn off irrigation systems and avoid home car-washing
  • Reduce home water usage by taking shorter showers, turning off the water promptly, washing only full loads of laundry and dishes, running washing machines and dishwashers on “efficiency” modes, and saving large water-using activities for low-demand times of the day, such as the evening;
  • Please avoid other water uses that are not necessary;
  • Other ideas can be found at: www.epa.ohio.gov/watertips.aspx

posted by jr on Aug 06, 2014 at 02:26:15 am     #   1 person liked this

But in a press conference yesterday, Collins said residents should be prepared to conserve water "all summer."

So what is it, D-Mike: "four days" or "all summer"? We are perplexed.

posted by historymike on Aug 06, 2014 at 06:12:32 am     #  

It's got me floculated too. Hell the rates alone are all the stimulate needed.

posted by Mariner on Aug 06, 2014 at 06:56:46 am     #  

historymike posted at 06:12:32 AM on Aug 06, 2014:

But in a press conference yesterday, Collins said residents should be prepared to conserve water "all summer."

So what is it, D-Mike: "four days" or "all summer"? We are perplexed.

Collins. The great communicator.

posted by justread on Aug 06, 2014 at 07:16:23 am     #  

Waiting to physically inspect flocuators until there is a spike in your numbers requiring a state of emergency and then blaming algae is like waiting until a wheel falls off your car and then blaming the road for the 20 year old ball joint.

posted by justread on Aug 06, 2014 at 07:35:10 am     #   11 people liked this

From the Aug 6 Blade story about the flux capacitor repair:

Mr. Moore said city workers noticed the damage on Monday. It was not broken during the weekend and had no impact on treating water during or in the run-up to the water crisis.

posted by jr on Aug 06, 2014 at 07:48:57 am     #   5 people liked this

LoveToledo posted at 11:33:15 PM on Aug 05, 2014:

75% of registered voters in the City of Toledo who didn't vote bear responsibility, those who voted for Collins, who is on track to be Toledo's most incompetent Mayor, bear responsibility. Years of incompetent leadership from the likes of Carty & Jack Ford bear responsibility. The only mayor of any worth since the new strong mayor system took effect in 1994 was Mike Bell and Toledo chose not to re-elect him for no good reason. Bravo!

Let's face facts-elections are nothing more than a glorified popularity contest. I don't understand how you expect a popularity contest to produce competent elected office holders, and it doesn't matter if there is 25% voter turnout or 100% voter turnout. The politician who appeals best to the lowest common denominator wins. How does that produce competence?

Take your example. Bell made some difficult decisions that were unpopular with the lowest common denominator. The may have been the correct decisions, they may have been the competent decisions, but they were unpopular decisions. Sometimes competent people must make unpopular decisions, but unpopular decisions are death to any chance of winning a popularity contest. This explains why you don't see many competent people in elected office.

To sum up, it is the system that produces incompetence, not those who don't vote.

posted by tolbuck on Aug 06, 2014 at 07:56:33 am     #   2 people liked this

Whenever I see the word "floculator" I feel dirty and in need of a shower, but am I allowed to take conscience-cleansing showers?

posted by historymike on Aug 06, 2014 at 07:59:39 am     #   2 people liked this

If you've never been in politics or unions, your conscience should clean up pretty fast.

posted by justread on Aug 06, 2014 at 08:20:15 am     #   3 people liked this

Needs to be a dry rub Dr.

posted by Mariner on Aug 06, 2014 at 08:23:55 am     #   1 person liked this

The mayor's written statement begins by asking residents to reduce water usage as repairs are done to the plant.

But later, it says: "Please continue conservation efforts during the algal season, which typically continues into September."

It was kind of mixed messaging.

posted by Nolan_Rosenkrans on Aug 06, 2014 at 08:51:18 am     #   1 person liked this

It was please, not you must.

posted by deere1 on Aug 06, 2014 at 09:53:07 am     #  

Please don't make me have to take your allowance away doesn't sound like a threat either.

posted by justread on Aug 06, 2014 at 10:03:52 am     #   2 people liked this

HEADLINE:
Mayor TELLS water users to conserve all summer

Read more at http://www.toledoblade.com/local/2014/08/06/Mayor-tells-water-users-to-conserve-all-summer.html#BtEmVkLCRwyx2qZw.99

I keep looking for one that says "Mayor kindly issues request" "Mayor asks please, if you please."

If a cop says "please get out of the car" he's not really asking. The mayor is a cop at the top of the Peter Principle.

posted by justread on Aug 06, 2014 at 10:12:55 am     #  

I don't remember which water-related thread contained a short discussion on how often the water is tested for the microcystin toxin, but this thread is active so I'll add this here:

I remember seeing a news article/interview with Dr. Grossman where he said that the city tests daily for this toxin (haven't looked for the interview but I know I saw it and even posted repeating the comment), but the latest article from the Blade states:

Previously, the city tested for microcystin weekly. It is now testing for the toxin every day, and will continue to do so while algae is considered a problem.

So at the start of the algae season they were only testing weekly for this toxin but now that they FOUND it, they will test more often?!?

posted by MrsArcher on Aug 06, 2014 at 10:23:44 am     #   2 people liked this

We need a hashtag for photos uploaded to social media that can be used to tattletale on every home, business, and org that waters their property.

  • #algaedenier - too hard to spell
  • #yousuck - succinct but too broad in scope

posted by jr on Aug 06, 2014 at 10:28:58 am     #   6 people liked this

#watersucker

posted by gamegrrl on Aug 06, 2014 at 10:34:43 am     #   1 person liked this

#H2Offender

posted by justread on Aug 06, 2014 at 10:42:02 am     #   16 people liked this

#H2Offender = WINNER!

Excellent. LOL!

posted by gamegrrl on Aug 06, 2014 at 10:54:59 am     #  

Nicely done justread!

posted by 6th_Floor on Aug 06, 2014 at 11:09:31 am     #  

justread posted at 10:42:02 AM on Aug 06, 2014:

#H2Offender

Bwahahaha!

posted by historymike on Aug 06, 2014 at 11:50:59 am     #  

Like that better than my overhoser

posted by Mariner on Aug 06, 2014 at 12:49:08 pm     #  

#hoser would have been a good one. :)

posted by justread on Aug 06, 2014 at 01:28:25 pm     #  

Good job, Justread. The tag really says it all.

posted by madjack on Aug 06, 2014 at 05:06:50 pm     #  

I have no plans to let my landscape expire due to drought. So, have your cameras ready folks.

I don't live in the city. I've never lived in the city. I cant vote for or against the yahoos who kept kicking the can down the road. I live less than 2 miles from the city limits yet my water and sewer rates are going to be much, much higher than the city residents' rates. I want the level of service I'm paying for.

Not my circus. Not my monkeys.

posted by holland on Aug 06, 2014 at 08:48:26 pm     #   8 people liked this

Right there with you holland. I have far too much $$$, time and sweat invested in my yard/landscaping to let it go to hell because of the decades of morons in charge.

I've done my part - I've paid all the ridiculous taxes and fees for said decades. Time for the city/county to do theirs and start spending our $$$$$$$$ more wisely.

Of course, that is but a dream. They won't and the electorate won't hold them to it. Now, let's all go see what "reality" show is on tonight...........

posted by Foodie on Aug 06, 2014 at 08:58:06 pm     #   1 person liked this

Yeppers, count me a member of the #H2Offender club. I might have considered a voluntary reduction in lawn/garden watering, but after this parched July, I am not going to sit back and allow my landscaping to wither.

posted by historymike on Aug 06, 2014 at 09:01:27 pm     #  

Amen to all three. I haven't watered anything yet. I'm counting on some recent scattered showers. Maybe tomorrow.

I haven't wash any cars yet either.

I wonder if they will eventually sell us water credits. Like carbon offsets. That's when we'll go rogue.

posted by justread on Aug 06, 2014 at 09:16:23 pm     #   2 people liked this

"what "reality" show is on tonight"

I would like to buy a Gas Monkey Garage offset credit. :)

posted by justread on Aug 06, 2014 at 09:27:11 pm     #  

Rogue is the de rigueur. We water our tomato plants via a rain barrel. Been a wee bit dry lately and not about ready to relinquish my summer blt's for over compensated bureaucrates. Screw 'em when we are in sight of the largest body of fresh water in the world and can't even use it at a reasonable fee let alone consume it without trepidation. Hang 'em from the closest yardarm.

posted by Mariner on Aug 06, 2014 at 09:34:19 pm     #  

I just watered the lawn for 4 hours

posted by bucknut on Aug 06, 2014 at 10:12:23 pm     #   1 person liked this

I don't water the grass, it's mostly weeds over clay anyway, but the 10 minutes of downpour we got last night topped up the 575 gallons of rainbarrel I have, so put your cameras away, my veggies and flowers are gonna live! Oh, wait, I moved out of Toledo 4 years ago, I get my tap water from Oregon! Bwahahaha!!

posted by nana on Aug 06, 2014 at 11:11:13 pm     #   1 person liked this

"Mr. Moore said, however, that water users need to refrain from watering their lawns or irrigating fields and washing cars at home until the end of September."

"Need to refrain from." That's like "suspend" isn't it?

Read more at http://www.toledoblade.com/local/2014/08/07/Treatment-plant-back-to-full-strength-after-fix.html#qMMQfu1LXJZ8m8Ru.99

posted by justread on Aug 07, 2014 at 06:33:26 am     #  

Am taking it all as 1984 doublespeak. Built in plausible denialbility standard.

posted by Mariner on Aug 07, 2014 at 07:40:33 am     #   1 person liked this

Doug Haynam who has a real problem with this whole deal will be on with me Friday at 7a. He's been an environmental lawyer for over 30 years and is a current Sylvania city councilman

posted by fred on Aug 07, 2014 at 09:08:46 am     #   2 people liked this

My water bill is up tp a bit over $300 for 3 months.....I'll use water as I see fit.

posted by JeepMaker on Aug 07, 2014 at 09:48:10 am     #   1 person liked this

JeepMaker posted at 09:48:10 AM on Aug 07, 2014:

My water bill is up tp a bit over $300 for 3 months.....I'll use water as I see fit.

So is mine and I echo your sentiments. I'm certainly not going to lay the hose on the ground and let it run needlessly but I will most certainly continue to water my lawn and landscaping.

Mayor D (Stands for dufus) "who are we going to call at 3am?" Michael Collins be damned!

posted by Foodie on Aug 07, 2014 at 10:58:19 am     #   1 person liked this

Mariner posted at 09:34:19 PM on Aug 06, 2014:

Rogue is the de rigueur. We water our tomato plants via a rain barrel. Been a wee bit dry lately and not about ready to relinquish my summer blt's for over compensated bureaucrates. Screw 'em when we are in sight of the largest body of fresh water in the world and can't even use it at a reasonable fee let alone consume it without trepidation. Hang 'em from the closest yardarm.

Ironically, the reason we CAN'T use the lake without trepidation is a sustained unwillingness (over the past 50-100 years, or so) on the part of the citizens and industry to go without certain things, or a least mitigate their impact from having taken advantage of them. What I am hearing here is that that unwillingness is alive and well. I rather doubt that Mariner's tomato plants being watered or Foodie's and Mike's landscaping being looked after will make or break us in the long term. It's the SPIRIT that I'm talking about here, and that spirit is alive and well. Simply ignoring a conservation effort is by no means the most damaging thing you can do. However: There are enough of your neighbors that feel the same way about Scott's coming and dumping some of the most deadly substances it's legal to buy on their lawn. There are enough local farmers and corporations that feel the same way about their fertilization and waste disposal needs. Someone ELSE will compensate for me...I got a life and a business to run here!

Or, more on our own level: I want tomatoes. I want landscaping. Well, there are a lot of people who want things far more destructive than those things...who goes first? And it is not straight forward, remember...it might not be based on "fairness"...because some of those other people may have more money and better lawyers than you. There will be politicians who take the "gee, we really don't know fer sure what causes this problem so let's just do nothing at all"-approach. So, what happens to our lake and our resources while we are all deciding who should be the ones to make sacrifices?

Speaking in a general sense, of course. A summer-long restriction on water usage might be a bit over the top...but it doesn't matter. The anger was just as palpable over the suggestion a four-day restriction so that they could work on the machines that clean your water. The anger and accusations were there over an open-ended advisory designed to keep people from drinking tainted water. And, what we're talking about here isn't even really a "restriction," just a requested voluntary conservation effort...and again, that wouldn't matter. Voluntary; involuntary; suggested; demanded; enforced; unenforced; overreaction; under-reaction....all the same. The anger was there, and it was immediate. And it is still there, and will continue to be. And it is the best kind of anger, too: indignant slippery-slope horseshit. Reduce my water usage...? What's next, water credits...!?!?!?! Nothing like anger that motivates to no positive end.

Apparently the powers that be learned nothing from Jimmy Carter's suggestion that people not overheat their houses or drive around aimlessly wasting gas in 1979...then as now, the freedom to not only waste resources, but waste your own money to do it is sacred, and must be protected. Telling people they are acting like morons is the eternal political third-rail. Sure, we all want drinkable water and energy independence, but we sure 'nuff don't want some wimpy country bumpkin peanut farmer or socially maladjusted former cop telling us we might have to take small steps to obtain those things. The very IDEA that there is anything the citizenry can do to help with the long-term preservation of our water source--regardless of the validity of the suggestions made to do so--is NEVER going to go over.

Screw 'em when we are in sight of the largest body of fresh water in the world and can't even use it at a reasonable fee let alone consume it without trepidation.

I hate to tell you this, Mariner. Our usage of this lake is under threat not because of "over compensated bureaucrats." It's threatened because of US. Each and every one of us.

Screw THEM? Nah. We ALL are the ones that are going to be screwed. You may think thumbing your nose at some "water restriction" gives you the last laugh or makes you some kind of tough guy..."THAT'LL SHOW THOSE FAT CATS DOWN AT CITY HALL!! BWA HA HA HA!!!" But, I don't think those bureaucrats are the ones you need to worry about. Mother Nature strapped on the hog last week, and stuck the tip in. The TIP IS IN, folks. You know how that goes. Nobody likes to pull out once the tip is in. And I have a bad feeling that when that unforgiving bitch-goddess decides she's ready, the rest of it will come in, and she'll fuck us long and hard. And I am pretty sure SHE is going to enjoy it a lot more than WE do.

Think I'm wrong? Because I feel pretty confident that everything I just described happened this past week. And we all saw it. And we learned nothing. Except how to ignore that which is right in front of our faces and default to simply blaming elected leaders and arguing semantics...although, honestly, we already knew how to do that.

So, everybody keep doing what you're doing. If you want to sound a little bit diplomatic, you can take Mike's angle: I might have considered a voluntary reduction in lawn/garden watering...but after this parched July... See? That makes you look responsible and concerned, while still able to plausibly pass the buck on this one. I wanted to do my part, but, ya know...it was so hot this month...

But you really don't even need to expend that much energy. It's a lot easier to just keep doing everything you're doing, willfully defy anyone who suggests you do otherwise, and assume that OTHER people will make sacrifices to make up for you and that OTHER people will fix any problems that come up...and if they DON'T, well, dammit, ain't that just a politician for ya?! Why can't we ever elect someone with the power to undo decades of irresponsibility on the part of society? Cuz of UNIONS, that's why!

And while I may sound like I am castigating people for it, I'm not. Even if the people on this board whose quotes I cited changed their ways, there will still be enough idiots out there who won't. There will always be enough imbeciles out there to fuck everything up for the rest of us. So while I may sound sarcastic, I am not. I mean what I say. It could start with any one of us...but there's no reason it should have to, especially when it would likely END with one of us, or only a couple of people down the line. Water your bushes, Mike. Eat your BLTs, Mariner (BLT is my favorite, too, and by the way, thank you for giving me an idea for dinner tonight.) It probably wouldn't matter if you didn't do those things. So, do them. But for the sake of your own dignity, let's none of us elevate these mundane things to profound symbolism against an oppressive water-rationing regime for no other reason than to make ourselves feel like BIG MEN. Because, frankly...and I don't mind using the words...that is fucking retarded.

Everyone keep doing what you're doing--as will I--and let's hope that the imminent fucking is not too severe...

...because that looks like an AWFULLY big strap-on she's wearing.

posted by Sohio on Aug 07, 2014 at 11:30:38 am     #   5 people liked this

Whew. Pontification at it's finest. Truthfully none of this is taken personally, but it would be a fair assessment that there are precious few conspicuous consumers on this board. Look at the activity of blogging being a no-cost, no-risk pastime. (jr being the host, exception) Am willing to bet one gold doubloon that most if not all contributors here were already using best practices of resources and are highly mindful possessing situational awareness of the environment. It is rare to read the colorful portrayal of mother nature and is more fitting on that other site than on here. Crudity is the hallmark of lesser minds.

posted by Mariner on Aug 07, 2014 at 12:00:59 pm     #   4 people liked this

So.... hio:
We have always lived on this planet at Mother Nature's discretion.

The water was barely tainted at the plant, and not tainted at my house. Ever. At all.

The bloom this year is nothing compared to 2011.
(Only in 2011 we didn't have a broken flocculator that we were unaware of.)

What we've learned from this is that we elected a cross between Alexander Haig, Henny Penny and Barney Fife for mayor, thanks in major parts to the union backlash from the excellent and appropriate SB5 stance taken by an actual leader who refused to kowtow to labor over the welfare of the city.
We also learned that you are an abusive drunk with a fixation on weed and feed.
And... we learned that the Collins administration has a real competence gap in the public information side of life.

posted by justread on Aug 07, 2014 at 12:04:24 pm     #   4 people liked this

Sohio is dead on, call him what you will. One man's crude is another man's honest, painful, truth. NONE of us will take what he said personally, and that's the problem. http://www.fewings.ca/web/general/051012MotherNature.html

posted by nana on Aug 07, 2014 at 12:05:14 pm     #   2 people liked this

Oh... and we learned the location of the Toledo Intake! :D

posted by justread on Aug 07, 2014 at 12:05:19 pm     #  

http://imgur.com/o79ym

posted by nana on Aug 07, 2014 at 12:07:30 pm     #  

It is rare to read the colorful portrayal of mother nature and is more fitting on that other site than on here. Crudity is the hallmark of lesser minds.

When have you ever known me to use such language or imagery at any other time? Often? I don't hide behind niceties. With all the talk this past week of how we are all "adults" and we can "handle the truth," I figured I'd keep it real.

We have always lived on this planet at Mother Nature's discretion.

Exactly my point.

The bloom this year is nothing compared to 2011.

The year just started.

We also learned that you are an abusive drunk with a fixation on weed and feed.
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ad-hominem.html

Justread...thank you for helping me prove my point.

posted by Sohio on Aug 07, 2014 at 12:17:32 pm     #  

...and thank you for once again stating your opinion of Mike Collins. I wasn't quite clear yet where you stood on him.

posted by Sohio on Aug 07, 2014 at 12:25:03 pm     #  

Sohio posted at 12:17:32 PM on Aug 07, 2014:

It is rare to read the colorful portrayal of mother nature and is more fitting on that other site than on here. Crudity is the hallmark of lesser minds.

When have you ever known me to use such language or imagery at any other time? Often? I don't hide behind niceties. With all the talk this past week of how we are all "adults" and we can "handle the truth," I figured I'd keep it real.

We have always lived on this planet at Mother Nature's discretion.

Exactly my point.

The bloom this year is nothing compared to 2011.

The year just started.

We also learned that you are an abusive drunk with a fixation on weed and feed.
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ad-hominem.html

Justread...thank you for helping me prove my point.

You make such a good cheerleader for the local ruling party, I am surprised your not on their payroll, or are you.

posted by MIJeff on Aug 07, 2014 at 12:27:56 pm     #   2 people liked this

MIJeff posted at 12:27:56 PM on Aug 07, 2014:
Sohio posted at 12:17:32 PM on Aug 07, 2014:

It is rare to read the colorful portrayal of mother nature and is more fitting on that other site than on here. Crudity is the hallmark of lesser minds.

When have you ever known me to use such language or imagery at any other time? Often? I don't hide behind niceties. With all the talk this past week of how we are all "adults" and we can "handle the truth," I figured I'd keep it real.

We have always lived on this planet at Mother Nature's discretion.

Exactly my point.

The bloom this year is nothing compared to 2011.

The year just started.

We also learned that you are an abusive drunk with a fixation on weed and feed.
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ad-hominem.html

Justread...thank you for helping me prove my point.

You make such a good cheerleader for the local ruling party, I am surprised your not on their payroll, or are you.

A very pertinent contribution as always, mijeff.

posted by Sohio on Aug 07, 2014 at 12:30:39 pm     #   2 people liked this

"The year just started."

Uh. It's August.

But anywho... the point was that 2011 came and went without Aquapocalypse, despite being the worst bloom on record so far.
Same lake, same system, same mother nature, worse bloom, no crisis.

And sport, it ain't ad hominem. It was a list of things we learned, not an attempt to attack you rather than refute your point.
Had you not acted like such an ass for no apparent reason the other evening, on this thread, it wouldn't have even been on my radar, as I have no agenda against you.

I am disappointed that you went there not because you are so terrible, but because the thread was going pretty well without those type of antics.

posted by justread on Aug 07, 2014 at 12:47:36 pm     #   2 people liked this

Uh. It's August.

Uh. Yeah. And the algae season starts in July.

Same lake, same system, same mother nature, worse bloom, no crisis.

Again, the jury is still out.

And, in listing what you've "learned," you simply confirmed the list I already gave you of what we learned. So, we agree.

As for being an ass...as usual, I simply addressed what you said. It was who who got personal and starting throwing accusations--true as they may be--around. I was fairly certain the tone of my reply matched the tone of your initial posting.

posted by Sohio on Aug 07, 2014 at 12:56:07 pm     #  

*YOU who got personal

posted by Sohio on Aug 07, 2014 at 12:57:23 pm     #  

posted by historymike on Aug 07, 2014 at 12:59:13 pm     #  

Mad=angry, or mad=insane?

posted by Sohio on Aug 07, 2014 at 01:00:22 pm     #  

Sohio posted at 12:25:03 PM on Aug 07, 2014:

...and thank you for once again stating your opinion of Mike Collins. I wasn't quite clear yet where you stood on him.

He is the kind of mayor that could, by comparison, make Carty electable again. You know, like Ford did. But worse.

He handled Aquapocalypse/Malapropnado so poorly, so astounding poorly, that even Keith Burris got it right. I know right? Burris.
Who would have ever thunk it?

http://www.toledoblade.com/Keith-Burris/2014/08/07/During-crisis-Toledo-failed-on-PR-front.html

posted by justread on Aug 07, 2014 at 01:01:56 pm     #   1 person liked this

"Failed on PR front."

The PR front. Certainly the most important front where public health is concerned.

And definitely the most important lesson of this whole mess.

posted by Sohio on Aug 07, 2014 at 01:08:03 pm     #  

"Again, the jury is still out."

No. The jury has ruled. The bloom that "caused" the "crisis" is a much smaller bloom in comparison to the WORST BLOOM yet.

The point is not that 2014 will or will not go down in history as the worst, it's that even in the worst bloom so far.... 2011, we didn't experience the shenanigans that we experienced in August 2014, when the bloom was NOT AS BAD as 2011.

How bad it may or may not be in the future is not germane to the fact that under more favorable conditions environmentally, broken equipment allowed a micro-spike and the micro-spike allowed the "crisis" that was heard around the world.

posted by justread on Aug 07, 2014 at 01:09:13 pm     #  

Sohio posted at 01:08:03 PM on Aug 07, 2014:

"Failed on PR front."

The PR front. Certainly the most important front where public health is concerned.

And definitely the most important lesson of this whole mess.

Public health was not actually threatened.

But confidence in our utilities and administration suffered actual damages.

PR is so important, that media people put bounties on the heads of anonymous critics.
The world now knows us as the city on the lake with poison water. Econcat88 deserves an apology. What google page does his stuff come up on now?

posted by justread on Aug 07, 2014 at 01:13:14 pm     #   1 person liked this

You are also forgetting that the bloom size was not issue. It was the level of toxins released by the blooms, which can vary based on many factors (bloom size being only one); as can the amount of those toxins that get into our supply stream.

I really don't understand why you're so mad at me, justread. I just told you to go on doing everything you are already doing. You have made very good points that nothing we are doing is to blame for this mess. Why so jumpy?

posted by Sohio on Aug 07, 2014 at 01:14:22 pm     #  

Public health was not actually threatened.

How do you back that up?

posted by Sohio on Aug 07, 2014 at 01:15:04 pm     #  

You are confusing conversation with anger.

That's telling.

posted by justread on Aug 07, 2014 at 01:15:10 pm     #  

justread posted at 01:15:10 PM on Aug 07, 2014:

You are confusing conversation with anger.

That's telling.

So far today, you've called me an ass and a drunk. Sounds somewhat combative to me...

posted by Sohio on Aug 07, 2014 at 01:16:03 pm     #   5 people liked this

Sohio posted at 01:15:04 PM on Aug 07, 2014:

Public health was not actually threatened.

How do you back that up?

Facts mostly.
-Readings taken around town throughout the weekend.
-Reports from ED personnel who described patients as "worried, but asymptomatic."
-Did I mention the readings taken around town throughout the weekend?

The difference between .05ppb and .09ppb was falsely associated with the symptoms that are possible with direct contact with toxins in the lake.

The sky was not actually falling. Just confidence.

posted by justread on Aug 07, 2014 at 01:20:20 pm     #   1 person liked this

Mariner posted at 12:00:59 PM on Aug 07, 2014:

Whew. Pontification at it's finest. Truthfully none of this is taken personally, but it would be a fair assessment that there are precious few conspicuous consumers on this board. Look at the activity of blogging being a no-cost, no-risk pastime. (jr being the host, exception) Am willing to bet one gold doubloon that most if not all contributors here were already using best practices of resources and are highly mindful possessing situational awareness of the environment. It is rare to read the colorful portrayal of mother nature and is more fitting on that other site than on here. Crudity is the hallmark of lesser minds.

Exactly. We've used many conservation practices around the home for years. Don't let the water run while brushing your teeth; our shower has the ability to reduce the water to a trickle while you soap up; I use organic fertilizer; we already don't run the dishwasher until full and don't do partial loads of laundry. We've been recycling since long before it was as easy as rolling your tub to the curb.

But I'll be damned if a bunch of politicians who continue to pi$$ away tax dollars on non-essential things while ignoring the growing problems in the lake - largely fed by inadequate sewage treatment systems - as well as our other crumbling infrastructure, are going to grandstand on a podium and tell me I have to do more because they don't have the cajones or principles to do what needs to be done.

We've been kicking this can down the road for decades. We've been kicking many cans down the road for decades.

And what happened to the last Mayor who took a principled stand against one of those well dented cans? He became the target of one specific, powerful group who was hell bent to defeat him because he dared to take that principled stand. And you, Sohio, are a prominent (or semi-prominent, I have no clue) member of that group.

So, please, don't get on your ivory coated soap box and preach down to the rest of us. You, along with thousands of other single issue minded voters have given us the local government we have.

posted by Foodie on Aug 07, 2014 at 01:28:46 pm     #   1 person liked this

justread posted at 01:20:20 PM on Aug 07, 2014:
Sohio posted at 01:15:04 PM on Aug 07, 2014:

Public health was not actually threatened.

How do you back that up?

Facts mostly.
-Readings taken around town throughout the weekend.

-Reports from ED personnel who described patients as "worried, but asymptomatic."

-Did I mention the readings taken around town throughout the weekend?

The difference between .05ppb and .09ppb was falsely associated with the symptoms that are possible with direct contact with toxins in the lake.

The sky was not actually falling. Just confidence.

So, you see no value in an excess of caution when warning signs are showing danger? That's fine. We may disagree on that, but it's a valid opinion. A case could be made that too much caution could cause panic. So, I'll respect your opinion on that.

Another symptom of anger I see is your efforts to skirt around what I was actually saying. The algae is out there. The severity varies year to year, but the prevailing trend is that it is getting worse. It is causing problems apart from what we have just seen (would you like to swim in it?). It will continue to cause problems. The root of the problem is not being addressed. When I stated the root of the problem, I referenced the recent crisis only in terms of it being one signal that the problem is growing beyond our control.

The responses so far have been Mariner's complaints of the language I used, and your continued complaints about Collins and the perceived overreaction to this whole thing. I would argue that is a deliberate obfuscation of the real problem on your part. What I take away from your statements are that the algae is no big deal--in fact, it's "better" than it was a few years ago, and that the real issue here is a mayor with no people skills and a widespread mishandling of one occurrence. I perceive that to come from anger, possibly from having taken my statements personally...

...because my whole point was that this is but the tip of a very big iceberg. This is not the end, it's the beginning. And I feel like not many people are grasping that.

posted by Sohio on Aug 07, 2014 at 01:32:41 pm     #   2 people liked this

Foodie posted at 01:28:46 PM on Aug 07, 2014:
Mariner posted at 12:00:59 PM on Aug 07, 2014:

Whew. Pontification at it's finest. Truthfully none of this is taken personally, but it would be a fair assessment that there are precious few conspicuous consumers on this board. Look at the activity of blogging being a no-cost, no-risk pastime. (jr being the host, exception) Am willing to bet one gold doubloon that most if not all contributors here were already using best practices of resources and are highly mindful possessing situational awareness of the environment. It is rare to read the colorful portrayal of mother nature and is more fitting on that other site than on here. Crudity is the hallmark of lesser minds.

Exactly. We've used many conservation practices around the home for years. Don't let the water run while brushing your teeth; our shower has the ability to reduce the water to a trickle while you soap up; I use organic fertilizer; we already don't run the dishwasher until full and don't do partial loads of laundry. We've been recycling since long before it was as easy as rolling your tub to the curb.

But I'll be damned if a bunch of politicians who continue to pi$$ away tax dollars on non-essential things while ignoring the growing problems in the lake - largely fed by inadequate sewage treatment systems - as well as our other crumbling infrastructure, are going to grandstand on a podium and tell me I have to do more because they don't have the cajones or principles to do what needs to be done.

We've been kicking this can down the road for decades. We've been kicking many cans down the road for decades.

And what happened to the last Mayor who took a principled stand against one of those well dented cans? He became the target of one specific, powerful group who was hell bent to defeat him because he dared to take that principled stand. And you, Sohio, are a prominent (or semi-prominent, I have no clue) member of that group.

So, please, don't get on your ivory coated soap box and preach down to the rest of us. You, along with thousands of other single issue minded voters have given us the local government we have.

I assume you are talking about SB5 and Bell's stance on it? I am really not sure what SB5 has to do with the pollution in Lake Erie. Maybe you can fill me in?

I am a prominent member of no group. If you are referring to unions, I do happen to be a rank-and-file member. I was, at one time, a union steward in a past place of employment. I am no more. And don't think for one minute that I hold myself blameless. I am as guilty as anyone else, if not more so. And don't think I hold union people blameless either. There is a lot of money in pollution, and a lot of good paying union jobs in polluting industries. Those union brothers and sisters wanted a piece of that pie, too.

Again...I don't really see what any of this has to do with what I said. I clearly stated the abuses we are now paying for started well back into the last century. It didn't start with Collins, Bell, Carty, McHugh, or Donna Owens. It wasn't caused by unions, corporations, politicians, or animals. It was caused by ALL OF US.

My main point was that EVERYONE would have to band together to fix what is going wrong, which is unlikely to happen. My secondary point was that when you tell people they are the cause of their own problems, you are likely to get nothing but indignation and attacks in return. Was I right?

posted by Sohio on Aug 07, 2014 at 01:43:25 pm     #   2 people liked this

These things are not mutually exclusive.

I believe (and have posted):

-Runoff and farming techniques are a leading cause, as is the fact that corn and soybean fields lay bare for much of the year, increasing runoff of phosphorus laden water and soil.
-There has been a marked increase in corn and soybean acreage in our area.
-Farming is happening too close to the Maumee.
-People are overapplying chemicals in residential settings.
-Zebra mussels cleaned the lake, allowing more sunlight to the bottom, where the algae spends the majority of its life.
-Equipment allowed the spike of a billionth of a ppb.
-The numbers were not all that out of whack.
-There was a single outlier sample that was of concern.
-The concentration was never above the World Health Organization standard in our homes.
-The communication sucked.
-If they had said nothing, nobody would have ever known there was a DANGEROUS LURKING MONSTER on the horizon. Also, nobody would have known to visit the ER.
-We already spend $4M treating for this.
-The sky is not falling.
-The mixy stick thingy was broke and stuff, go figure.
-Oregon's mixy stick wasn't broke.
-The order not to EVEN TOUCH the water was borderline insane.
-Collins is an idiot who loves a crisis more than a Bailey's on Christmas morning.

posted by justread on Aug 07, 2014 at 01:47:55 pm     #  

OK, justread. All good points, and we agree on most of them.

So...

Why am I an ass and a drunk [and a Collins lackey and a union thug, from other posters] for suggesting that the algae is a big problem, we are all responsible, and we are probably too stubborn and argumentative to fix what is wrong?

posted by Sohio on Aug 07, 2014 at 01:54:23 pm     #   1 person liked this

Sohio posted at 01:54:23 PM on Aug 07, 2014:

OK, justread. All good points, and we agree on most of them.

So...

Why am I an ass and a drunk [and a Collins lackey and a union thug, from other posters] for suggesting that the algae is a big problem, we are all responsible, and we are probably too stubborn and argumentative to fix what is wrong?

It had nothing to do with algae and likely much to do with Cutty Sark. Re-read your posts if you don't remember them.

Your initial unprovoked nasty post and other points made during moments of greater sobriety are two different things. They have never been the same issue. They simply ended up on the same list of things we learned.

Why other people think you are a Collins lackey or a union thug are likely also unrelated to your views on the environment and social impediments to change. You might be the only one connecting them.

posted by justread on Aug 07, 2014 at 02:25:37 pm     #  

Maybe because you still support the machine that is the ruling political party that has siphoned money off that could have been used to upgrade and fix this problem over the last 30 years?

posted by MIJeff on Aug 07, 2014 at 02:27:49 pm     #  

justread posted at 02:25:37 PM on Aug 07, 2014:
Sohio posted at 01:54:23 PM on Aug 07, 2014:

OK, justread. All good points, and we agree on most of them.

So...

Why am I an ass and a drunk [and a Collins lackey and a union thug, from other posters] for suggesting that the algae is a big problem, we are all responsible, and we are probably too stubborn and argumentative to fix what is wrong?

It had nothing to do with algae and likely much to do with Cutty Sark. Re-read your posts if you don't remember them.

Your initial unprovoked nasty post and other points made during moments of greater sobriety are two different things. They have never been the same issue. They simply ended up on the same list of things we learned.

Why other people think you are a Collins lackey or a union thug are likely also unrelated to your views on the environment and social impediments to change. You might be the only one connecting them.

I guess you'd have to ask mijeff how they are connected to anything at all. Because he certainly lost me on how he came to that conclusion.

posted by Sohio on Aug 07, 2014 at 02:38:44 pm     #  

MIJeff posted at 02:27:49 PM on Aug 07, 2014:

Maybe because you still support the machine that is the ruling political party that has siphoned money off that could have been used to upgrade and fix this problem over the last 30 years?

I don't support any political party, mijeff. And if you'll re-read my last post, you'll see that what I was saying went way beyond political machinations.

posted by Sohio on Aug 07, 2014 at 02:41:32 pm     #   2 people liked this

I also do not recall being the first to bring up the subject of Scotch...

posted by Sohio on Aug 07, 2014 at 02:43:05 pm     #   2 people liked this

MIJeff posted at 02:27:49 PM on Aug 07, 2014:

Maybe because you still support the machine that is the ruling political party that has siphoned money off that could have been used to upgrade and fix this problem over the last 30 years?

COULD have been. But would it have been? Pointless speculation on your part.

Bell was elected with the help of several unions...but I've seen no proof that he did anything more (or less) than anyone else to address this problem.

posted by Sohio on Aug 07, 2014 at 02:53:36 pm     #  

Bell did nothing to fix which problem, the problem of the modern American lawn, or the broken equipment that totally didn't break until after Sunday but was totally related to the mixing of the treatment chemicals and the pee soup?

Donna Owens left office with a clean lake. Just saying.

posted by justread on Aug 07, 2014 at 03:15:29 pm     #   2 people liked this

Justread, that is Exactly the point I have been trying to make all day. Ever since I posted this morning, everyone has been trying to wedge-in their preferred blame target. This issue transcends all that stuff and it even transcends algae.

And if you think the lake was clean when Donna Owens left office, you obviously didn't grow up swimming at Niles Beach. Or Reno, for that matter. Not that it was her fault.

posted by Sohio on Aug 07, 2014 at 03:32:54 pm     #   2 people liked this

Yeah the last probably good mayor of Toledo was a Whig.

posted by MIJeff on Aug 07, 2014 at 03:45:03 pm     #  

I agree with Sohio's rant about the environment and why we are in the position that we're currently in. However, up to that point Sohio did (and continues to) sound like a Collins lackey and a union thug. I also can't believe that I agree w/Keith Burris' article today, except for the comment that he doesn't think they could have done a better job because no one could have been prepared for such an emergency - BUNK! I hope the Collins administration will implement all of the suggestions made for moving forward.

posted by LoveToledo on Aug 07, 2014 at 04:07:50 pm     #  

Nah. You wouldn't have liked him. He would have stolen your hard earned money to build the public [aka SOCIALIST] library.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caleb_F._Abbott

posted by Sohio on Aug 07, 2014 at 04:08:24 pm     #  

^^ response to mijeff

posted by Sohio on Aug 07, 2014 at 04:08:54 pm     #  

LoveToledo posted at 04:07:50 PM on Aug 07, 2014:

I agree with Sohio's rant about the environment and why we are in the position that we're currently in. However, up to that point Sohio did (and continues to) sound like a Collins lackey and a union thug. I also can't believe that I agree w/Keith Burris' article today, except for the comment that he doesn't think they could have done a better job because no one could have been prepared for such an emergency - BUNK! I hope the Collins administration will implement all of the suggestions made for moving forward.

However, up to that point Sohio did (and continues to) sound like a Collins lackey and a union thug.

<sigh>
And how is that, exactly?

posted by Sohio on Aug 07, 2014 at 04:10:10 pm     #  

Sohio posted at 03:32:54 PM on Aug 07, 2014:

Justread, that is Exactly the point I have been trying to make all day. Ever since I posted this morning, everyone has been trying to wedge-in their preferred blame target. This issue transcends all that stuff and it even transcends algae.

And if you think the lake was clean when Donna Owens left office, you obviously didn't grow up swimming at Niles Beach. Or Reno, for that matter. Not that it was her fault.

By 1989 it was well on the way to rebound. (Not the Ottawa River though) We had boats, so we swam away from the shore. Like around West Sister.

McHugh had NO ALGAE AT ALL when he left office. Now, that's good government.

posted by justread on Aug 07, 2014 at 04:23:26 pm     #  

justread posted at 04:23:26 PM on Aug 07, 2014:
Sohio posted at 03:32:54 PM on Aug 07, 2014:

Justread, that is Exactly the point I have been trying to make all day. Ever since I posted this morning, everyone has been trying to wedge-in their preferred blame target. This issue transcends all that stuff and it even transcends algae.

And if you think the lake was clean when Donna Owens left office, you obviously didn't grow up swimming at Niles Beach. Or Reno, for that matter. Not that it was her fault.

By 1989 it was well on the way to rebound. (Not the Ottawa River though) We had boats, so we swam away from the shore. Like around West Sister.

McHugh had NO ALGAE AT ALL when he left office. Now, that's good government.

We used to swim out there, too.

Not a lot of algae back in the 70s and 80s (not like we see now, anyway). But, there were plenty of other pollutants. Stuff you couldn't see. Mercury, for one. And, until the mid or late 70s, municipalities used to dump unmeasured amounts of raw sewage into that lake.

It had rebounded somewhat from the way it was in the 60s, surely. It would appear we have lost whatever headway we had made.

But, you're right...the Ottawa river hadn't. Neither had the Rouge. And those rivers FEED Lake Erie. See what I mean?

posted by Sohio on Aug 07, 2014 at 04:39:06 pm     #  

Mercury suspended in the lake water?

Christ, we played with puddles of it on the garage floor, dumped from re-used baby food jars. Then we ate our peanut butter and jelly sammies without ever washing our hands. And then we picked up dead birds and looked in dumpsters for things to repurpose as fort construction materials.

How did we ever survive?

posted by justread on Aug 07, 2014 at 04:46:40 pm     #   2 people liked this

I'm talking puddles of pure liquid mercury. Not puddles of lake water that was tainted.

posted by justread on Aug 07, 2014 at 04:47:36 pm     #  

It most collects on the bottom, I think. It becomes a problem when stirred, or eaten by fish which are then eaten by humans. Bottom-feeders, especially.

posted by Sohio on Aug 07, 2014 at 04:53:32 pm     #  

Here's some good reading on that:

http://ohioseagrant.osu.edu/_documents/publications/FS/FS-046%20Lake%20Erie%20water%20quality%20past%20present%20future.pdf

Can't find a date on it, though, I see "1989" in one corner, but can't tell if that is a year, or a publication number or something like that.

posted by Sohio on Aug 07, 2014 at 05:01:04 pm     #  

It's the year. The body of the text says "in 1988... by 1990."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-kA3UtBj4M

posted by justread on Aug 07, 2014 at 05:05:17 pm     #  

You are correct. Thanks.

posted by Sohio on Aug 07, 2014 at 05:10:37 pm     #  

I think I'm just going not respond to Sohio before I get myself in trouble with JR.

posted by MIJeff on Aug 07, 2014 at 08:21:30 pm     #  

Could I be so lucky?

posted by Sohio on Aug 07, 2014 at 08:33:18 pm     #   4 people liked this

justread posted at 05:05:17 PM on Aug 07, 2014:

It's the year. The body of the text says "in 1988... by 1990."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-kA3UtBj4M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMuWmU1iNJo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqfDpNymGSE

posted by Sohio on Aug 07, 2014 at 08:59:44 pm     #  

Sohio, I am jealous of people who have never read any of your posts.

posted by MIJeff on Aug 07, 2014 at 10:28:53 pm     #  

Somehow, I'm sure that's not meant to be a compliment....

posted by Sohio on Aug 07, 2014 at 10:42:44 pm     #  

LoveToledo posted at 04:07:50 PM on Aug 07, 2014:

I agree with Sohio's rant about the environment and why we are in the position that we're currently in. However, up to that point Sohio did (and continues to) sound like a Collins lackey and a union thug. I also can't believe that I agree w/Keith Burris' article today, except for the comment that he doesn't think they could have done a better job because no one could have been prepared for such an emergency - BUNK! I hope the Collins administration will implement all of the suggestions made for moving forward.

Whoever types 'union thug' automatically loses the fucking argument, whatever the argument is.

posted by McCaskey on Aug 07, 2014 at 11:37:14 pm     #   9 people liked this

I don't want to be a part of this argument AT ALL but I agree 100% McCaskey.

posted by upso on Aug 08, 2014 at 12:59:51 am     #   7 people liked this

posted by MIJeff on Aug 08, 2014 at 01:33:50 pm     #   1 person liked this

upso posted at 12:59:51 AM on Aug 08, 2014:

I don't want to be a part of this argument AT ALL but I agree 100% McCaskey.

Don't you just love this kind of thing?

Hey everybody, I'm not getting involved or taking a side here, but I'm with McCaskey! So don't post any derogatory comments at me, because I am not the problem. It's McCaskey - he's the one that started it.

Upso, you jellyfish.

posted by madjack on Aug 09, 2014 at 12:34:10 pm     #  

MIJeff posted at 10:28:53 PM on Aug 07, 2014:

Sohio, I am jealous of people who have never read any of your posts.

I suspect you're more envious than you are jealous, and I agree with you 100%.

Which means I want to be a part of this argument, and anyone who wants to blame me for instigating the argument is welcome to do so. I, you see, am not a jellyfish.

posted by madjack on Aug 09, 2014 at 12:38:03 pm     #   1 person liked this

I have never in my life been called a jellyfish! Not sure how i'm being a coward agreeing with someone, but as a huge fan of seafood I'll take it as a badge of honor.

posted by upso on Aug 09, 2014 at 12:43:34 pm     #   4 people liked this

can you eat jellyfish?

posted by MIJeff on Aug 09, 2014 at 04:39:57 pm     #  

Someone has, somewhere, at some point.

http://www.takepart.com/article/2013/10/03/lets-all-eat-jellyfish

posted by toledolen_ on Aug 09, 2014 at 04:48:55 pm     #