Toledo Talk

Investigative Journalism

It appears that local Toledo news media have now launched into an "investigative journalism" mode that seems designed to criticize local government's handling of the water situation.
I find this interesting in light of local media's equally poor and amateurish handling of water news over the past weekend------24/7 coverage of nothing new with blathering conversation as filler; then every 15 minute interruption of scheduled programming with "breaking news updates" containing no new information.

created by MariaL on Aug 07, 2014 at 04:18:00 pm     Comments: 51

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Comments ... #

Someone should investigate the Collins administration's failure to alert the hospitals and their failure to alert the other communities that receive Toledo water, especially after the original alert message contained a dire health warning.

That kind of incompetent behavior cannot be defended, and the more Collins tries to explain why he did not alert the other communities, the dumber he appears.

The Collins gang failed to inform the public last weekend as to why more tests were requested and results took longer than expected.

None of the info that become public on Monday and Tuesday of this week was so complex or secret that it could not have been shared last weekend.

On multiple occasions, Collins browbeated the media. That kind of classless behavior is unacceptable during that kind of event.

No question is too dumb. And maybe so-called dumb questions were asked because the Collins administration failed to use the city's website as a central repository for all info that was related to the issue, including debunking rumors and answering the many questions.

The only tweet by the city said to pay attention to the media for details, yet Collins hoarded info, and at times, he was an arrogant ass with the media.

Instead of city officials doing nothing while they crowded around Collins when Collins spoke to the media, those other city officials should have been gathering and publishing useful info to the city's website.

The actions or inactions by the Collins administration last weekend should serve as an example of how NOT to act during a crisis.

To me, the wake-up call was not about Lake Erie, algae, water, and pollution because none of that is new.

The most glaring thing from last weekend was the lack of a procedure for alerting communities, hospitals, the media, and the public about a crisis, regardless of the event.

The other communities should demand a protocol be established for communicating information about a health-risk event.

posted by jr on Aug 07, 2014 at 05:04:37 pm     #   15 people liked this

^amen

posted by justareviewer on Aug 07, 2014 at 05:40:04 pm     #  

HA, I just realized you made the green highlight the color of the green algae!

posted by upso on Aug 07, 2014 at 05:45:50 pm     #   5 people liked this

upso posted at 05:45:50 PM on Aug 07, 2014:

HA, I just realized you made the green highlight the color of the green algae!

Yeah, I did that a day or two ago in honor of our algae friends.

posted by jr on Aug 07, 2014 at 06:13:13 pm     #   1 person liked this

I didn't know if I had a malfunction with my display or I was hallucinating again. I like the new color, though. Good deal, JR.

posted by madjack on Aug 07, 2014 at 07:38:39 pm     #  

madjack posted at 07:38:39 PM on Aug 07, 2014:

I didn't know if I had a malfunction with my display or I was hallucinating again. I like the new color, though. Good deal, JR.

I would have assumed both. :)

posted by justread on Aug 07, 2014 at 07:50:09 pm     #   3 people liked this

The Results Are In!

Here are the official results from the last water test.

Clearly the water is now safe to drink.

posted by madjack on Aug 07, 2014 at 08:07:52 pm     #  

well I have to put on my sunglasses to read that post, think i lost about 20% of my retinas from it.

posted by MIJeff on Aug 07, 2014 at 08:16:07 pm     #  

I love the idea of changing the green box to algae-green but ouch! Maybe it's just because I'm viewing it on my iphone/iPad, but I can't look at it for very long because it makes me see spots. Kind of the same effect as a camera flash. But it's your site, do as you please :)

posted by dell_diva on Aug 07, 2014 at 08:35:56 pm     #  

jr posted at 05:04:37 PM on Aug 07, 2014:

Someone should investigate the Collins administration's failure to alert the hospitals and their failure to alert the other communities that receive Toledo water, especially after the original alert message contained a dire health warning.

That kind of incompetent behavior cannot be defended, and the more Collins tries to explain why he did not alert the other communities, the dumber he appears.

The Collins gang failed to inform the public last weekend as to why more tests were requested and results took longer than expected.

None of the info that become public on Monday and Tuesday of this week was so complex or secret that it could not have been shared last weekend.

On multiple occasions, Collins browbeated the media. That kind of classless behavior is unacceptable during that kind of event.

No question is too dumb. And maybe so-called dumb questions were asked because the Collins administration failed to use the city's website as a central repository for all info that was related to the issue, including debunking rumors and answering the many questions.

The only tweet by the city said to pay attention to the media for details, yet Collins hoarded info, and at times, he was an arrogant ass with the media.

Instead of city officials doing nothing while they crowded around Collins when Collins spoke to the media, those other city officials should have been gathering and publishing useful info to the city's website.

The actions or inactions by the Collins administration last weekend should serve as an example of how NOT to act during a crisis.

To me, the wake-up call was not about Lake Erie, algae, water, and pollution because none of that is new.

The most glaring thing from last weekend was the lack of a procedure for alerting communities, hospitals, the media, and the public about a crisis, regardless of the event.

The other communities should demand a protocol be established for communicating information about a health-risk event.

I don't know if there needs to be an investigation into the city not notifying other communities. It didn't. Now it's more of a question of how much people care.

posted by Nolan_Rosenkrans on Aug 07, 2014 at 09:01:42 pm     #   4 people liked this

dell_diva posted at 08:35:56 PM on Aug 07, 2014:

I love the idea of changing the green box to algae-green but ouch! Maybe it's just because I'm viewing it on my iphone/iPad, but I can't look at it for very long because it makes me see spots. Kind of the same effect as a camera flash. But it's your site, do as you please :)

The toxic algae is dangerous. It's pervasive, and obviously, it has slipped through my flocculator and infiltrated this message board.

I suggest a conservation effort where users reduce the number of postings per day.

The bloom is off the algae. This story old now. Stale. Boring.

It's time to move on and get ready for the weekend. Browns play the Lions on Saturday night. Johnny Football will play on the second team.

posted by jr on Aug 07, 2014 at 09:56:56 pm     #   3 people liked this

Nolan_Rosenkrans posted at 09:01:42 PM on Aug 07, 2014:
jr posted at 05:04:37 PM on Aug 07, 2014:

Someone should investigate the Collins administration's failure to alert the hospitals and their failure to alert the other communities that receive Toledo water, especially after the original alert message contained a dire health warning.

That kind of incompetent behavior cannot be defended, and the more Collins tries to explain why he did not alert the other communities, the dumber he appears.

The Collins gang failed to inform the public last weekend as to why more tests were requested and results took longer than expected.

None of the info that become public on Monday and Tuesday of this week was so complex or secret that it could not have been shared last weekend.

On multiple occasions, Collins browbeated the media. That kind of classless behavior is unacceptable during that kind of event.

No question is too dumb. And maybe so-called dumb questions were asked because the Collins administration failed to use the city's website as a central repository for all info that was related to the issue, including debunking rumors and answering the many questions.

The only tweet by the city said to pay attention to the media for details, yet Collins hoarded info, and at times, he was an arrogant ass with the media.

Instead of city officials doing nothing while they crowded around Collins when Collins spoke to the media, those other city officials should have been gathering and publishing useful info to the city's website.

The actions or inactions by the Collins administration last weekend should serve as an example of how NOT to act during a crisis.

To me, the wake-up call was not about Lake Erie, algae, water, and pollution because none of that is new.

The most glaring thing from last weekend was the lack of a procedure for alerting communities, hospitals, the media, and the public about a crisis, regardless of the event.

The other communities should demand a protocol be established for communicating information about a health-risk event.

I don't know if there needs to be an investigation into the city not notifying other communities. It didn't. Now it's more of a question of how much people care.

Everything about this entire situation should be investigated. Hey Toledo Blade! This is your chance! Figure out what happened, please.!

posted by hunkytownsausage on Aug 07, 2014 at 10:32:26 pm     #  

I would argue that practically every situation of this nature should be investigated. Isn't that what the Fifth Estate is for?

posted by Sohio on Aug 07, 2014 at 10:44:49 pm     #  

Sohio posted at 10:44:49 PM on Aug 07, 2014:

I would argue that practically every situation of this nature should be investigated. Isn't that what the Fifth Estate is for?

I think there's a lot of things that need to be investigated about this. I'm just saying that that particular question has been answered during a not so friendly press conference.

posted by Nolan_Rosenkrans on Aug 07, 2014 at 11:08:53 pm     #  

I would like to know, just what ARE the communication protocols between local governments and to regional citizens in the event of an emergency or disaster? I cannot believe, in a post-9/11, post-Katrina, post-Snowmageddon era that there are none in place.

And what are the protocols to get help here in the event of a disaster? I may be the only who thinks this, but there is a heck of a lot of time that passed between 1 a.m. or whenever the advisory went into effect and 5-6 p.m. the next day when the first water distribution centers opened in the city.

Any city that doesn't have emergency plans, protocols and logistics that can be enacted immediately has been run by some pretty foolhardy blokes for quite some time.

posted by jmleong on Aug 07, 2014 at 11:41:10 pm     #   1 person liked this

How does a former police officer not have the wherewithal to call the police departments in the other communities?

If the community does not have a PD, then call the sheriff department in each county that has an area impacted.

Call the fire departments.

Aren't the police and sheriff departments operating 24 hours like hospitals?

Nolan contributed to an Aug 6 story that contained a lot of info, including a bit of a timeline for Friday evening and early Saturday morning.

  • crisis began on Friday between 5:30 and 6:00 p.m. with elevated test readings.
  • the EPA-recommended test results came back around Midnight.
  • between Midnight and 1:00 a.m. on Saturday, authorities decided to issue the do-not-drink alert.
  • around 1:21 a.m., the alert was posted to Facebook.
  • at 1:45 a.m., the media were informed.
  • then a short time later, the Lucas County sheriff was informed.

Was Lisa Ward the only person making the calls and sending the emails, or did a gaggle of people work the phones and computers in a war room?

With the elevated test readings that occurred around 6:00 p.m., the city had six to seven hours to figure out who to notify and how to do it in case a ban was issued.

With the 6:00 p.m. readings, who from the city was notified? Were officials called in early Friday evening to brainstorm an action plan in case a ban was issued?

posted by jr on Aug 07, 2014 at 11:53:48 pm     #   6 people liked this

A lot of people who extended themselves for others, experienced significant losses, and had their wedding receptions screwed up, etc... are gonna be pissed when they find out that the levels that caused a bunch of weenies to go defcon 1 are considered normal and safe.

What will people do the next time they hear "wolf!... wolf!"?

posted by justread on Aug 08, 2014 at 07:42:33 am     #  

a few times through the years i have heard rumors that city employees that politicians wanted to keep on payroll after they lost an election and "protect" from new administrations were sent to work in the water department.... that they had an insulated budget and possibly work rules that kept those people on track in the retirement system. the water department was a safe zone of sorts.

anyone with actual info on this ? has this lead to a bloated budget at the water department ? with employees hired more for their connections rather than ability to keep the department humming ? i know, shocking... if so, did this contribute to our current problems ?

posted by enjoyeverysandwich on Aug 08, 2014 at 08:24:42 am     #  

jr... from what i have seen through the years i think both collins and reihnbolt natural instincts are to withdraw to an inner circle of people and hold information very close to the vest. in this case that meant not including a large number of elected and public officials who were clearly stakeholders and key to communications and decision making in ours and other affected communities.

reihnbolt lording over the press conferences and yanking the chain the moment collins made a mistake in fact or in style displayed, to me anyway, an underlying lack of openness and a seige mentality, worried more about the political effect upon them rather than a concern for the citizenry... this would explain collins defensive attacks when asked uncomfortable questions.

the mutual admiration society that collins and kasich provided for each other made me a little ill... interesting how many other elected officials sat that press conference out! but then they all came back to do the bobble head nod during the all-safe presser to try to reclaim some of the credit.

as far as lisa ward... i have to believe that, given her past comments and writing, she would have been prepared for and that she would have been encouraging more open and truthful information and contacting the appropriate broad range of stakeholders immediately...

posted by enjoyeverysandwich on Aug 08, 2014 at 08:55:38 am     #   1 person liked this

Sandwich, I agree with your speculation about lisa ward. I also wonder if she was able to convince anyone higher up of the new open/truthful/stakeholders approach. She can't make her bosses (and their trusted advisors of the same generational cohort) do anything that they don't already agree with 100%. Or if she can, then she needs to write about it so we can all learn how to make that kind of magic happen. :-) I face those kinds of issues in my workplace.

posted by viola on Aug 08, 2014 at 09:47:46 am     #  

justread posted at 07:42:33 AM on Aug 08, 2014:

A lot of people who extended themselves for others, experienced significant losses, and had their wedding receptions screwed up, etc... are gonna be pissed when they find out that the levels that caused a bunch of weenies to go defcon 1 are considered normal and safe.

What will people do the next time they hear "wolf!... wolf!"?

You keep saying that...you're the only person I've heard making that claim. What are you basing it on?

posted by Sohio on Aug 08, 2014 at 10:43:53 am     #  

The facts are available to all who seek them.

Nobody saw 1ppb in their homes. Most got .25-.50ppb.

A 135 pound adult can consume 1ppb concentrated microcystin for a lifetime without ill effect.

posted by justread on Aug 08, 2014 at 11:29:50 am     #  

Where are you reading that, justread? I've gone through all of my old manuals, and I'm not finding those numbers.

posted by Sohio on Aug 08, 2014 at 11:50:10 am     #  

The reason I ask, is that would be the perfect example of what could/should be investigated. I still have my lab cookbook from a few years ago, but none of that shows up. Not the way you're saying it, anyway.

posted by Sohio on Aug 08, 2014 at 11:53:50 am     #  

Ok, wait. A house on Starr Ave. had like 1.037 Sunday morning.

That was as high as it got in the distribution system.

The WHO Standard for 1ppb as a limit is everyday for a lifetime. Not an incidental exposure.

posted by justread on Aug 08, 2014 at 01:04:55 pm     #   2 people liked this

Sohio posted at 11:50:10 AM on Aug 08, 2014:

Where are you reading that, justread? I've gone through all of my old manuals, and I'm not finding those numbers.

Not sure of justread's source, but he is stating information that Doug Haynam has been posting on his facebook page and talked about this morning on WSPD. WHO's recommendation states that a 135 lb adult can drink 1/2 gallon of water a day with 1 ppb of mycrosystinLR for their entire life and be fine. So the city's panic at a 1-2 ppb reading was overkill and damaging to our economy. Haynam researched a bit and found that the state of Vermont has a 'no not drink' level of 10 ppb.

posted by MrsArcher on Aug 08, 2014 at 01:28:03 pm     #   1 person liked this

It wasn't a house on Starr, I think it was the fire station on Starr & Euclid.

The report on the WPSD website showed the address on Starr, and also a filter, settling tank, and clearwell at the plant that were over the threshold. At that point, the elevated levels had travelled three miles from the plant to Starr avenue in about three hours. Oddly, Front & Consaul tested better, even closer to the plant. But, that was about an hour earlier. Could mean one of the tests was bad...could also mean Front & Consaul just lucked out. There might be more distribution current toward Starr avenue, too.

It sounds to me like what you'd really want is a change in the advisory protocol from the EPA. The EPA calls for a DO NOT DRINK advisory at 1 ug/l (ppb). I would assume that finding that reading at the plant alone would be enough to trigger the warning under that rule. One sample point on the distribution doesn't sound like much, but once the reading is high in the clearwell, at that moment, it's pretty hard to tell how far the bad water may have already gotten.

http://wwwapp.epa.ohio.gov/gis/mapportal/hab.html

So, it wasn't really the city panicking, it was the EPA. Or, the EPA guidelines, by proxy.

You're also forgetting that not everyone in Toledo is a 135 pound healthy adult.

posted by Sohio on Aug 08, 2014 at 01:41:31 pm     #  

MrsArcher posted at 01:28:03 PM on Aug 08, 2014:
Sohio posted at 11:50:10 AM on Aug 08, 2014:

Where are you reading that, justread? I've gone through all of my old manuals, and I'm not finding those numbers.

Not sure of justread's source, but he is stating information that Doug Haynam has been posting on his facebook page and talked about this morning on WSPD. WHO's recommendation states that a 135 lb adult can drink 1/2 gallon of water a day with 1 ppb of mycrosystinLR for their entire life and be fine. So the city's panic at a 1-2 ppb reading was overkill and damaging to our economy. Haynam researched a bit and found that the state of Vermont has a 'no not drink' level of 10 ppb.

Dont recall where I heard it but they are saying 20 ppb will be the new standard for a do not drink order. I am more curious about the letter the mayor received in June about the water from the state EPA guy.

posted by MIJeff on Aug 08, 2014 at 01:48:29 pm     #  

According to this article from last November, the state of Vermont MAY issue an advisory at 1 ug/l, but they assess on a case by case basis. Vermont clearly has a plan in place (which is linked in that article). We clearly did not.

I would be more understanding about not having a plan (hey, we can't know everything the first time around) if the city had taken the necessary action to share information and cooperate with ALL of the communities affected by this decision. Calling the mayors at 3 a.m. seems like perfect logic to me, if one is truly interested in "erring on the side of caution."

posted by valbee on Aug 08, 2014 at 02:02:54 pm     #  

http://www2.epa.gov/nutrient-policy-data/policies-and-guidelines

Interestingly, the US EPA has no standard for this stuff, they evidently leave it up to the states.

posted by Sohio on Aug 08, 2014 at 02:12:04 pm     #  

MrsArcher posted at 01:28:03 PM on Aug 08, 2014:
Sohio posted at 11:50:10 AM on Aug 08, 2014:

Where are you reading that, justread? I've gone through all of my old manuals, and I'm not finding those numbers.

Not sure of justread's source, but he is stating information that Doug Haynam has been posting on his facebook page and talked about this morning on WSPD. WHO's recommendation states that a 135 lb adult can drink 1/2 gallon of water a day with 1 ppb of mycrosystinLR for their entire life and be fine. So the city's panic at a 1-2 ppb reading was overkill and damaging to our economy. Haynam researched a bit and found that the state of Vermont has a 'no not drink' level of 10 ppb.

Haynam has a good point about "do not drink" vs. "do not use." Per the EPA, if what we had the other day was indeed "do not drink," then, officially, restaurants could have stayed open and washed dishes with the water, as long as they didn't prepare food with it. Some of the confusion we saw just on this board shows that the communication was lacking as to what you could or could not do with it. Although, some restaurants DID stay open, using bottled water and disposable dishes. He does have a point, though: those advisories are clearly spelled out in their scope. It's one or the other, and it IS in writing. There would be no excuse for not knowing and making clear what the boundaries were.

However, where Haynam and I part ways is this:

Also, the advisory could have been tailored based on the areas that tested above the threshold of 1 ppb. This would have significantly curtailed the area covered by the advisory.

That's a bad way to operate, and it betrays an ignorance of water distribution. Toxins in a water supply travel very fast, and there's no good way to predict what direction they will take or how quickly they will dissipate. You can only sample at various places in the system, and go by what you find...but by then, it's already either there or not. Once it is found in the supply, the risk is there for it to travel anywhere in the system. You can argue what sensible safe limits are, but in any event, if the safe limit as prescribed by the governing body is found exceeded in the water, you have to assume all of the water is unsafe, until you can test and prove that it is safe. I don't know any water treatment specialist (and I know some) who would be willing to risk his job with an unsubstantiated assurance that one section of a compromised distribution system was safe. Haynam is an environmental lawyer, I would expect him to know that.

I also find it odd that a person who is friends with the TEA Party on facebook would put the judgment of the WHO over the judgment of the Ohio EPA...so much for state's rights, I guess?

posted by Sohio on Aug 08, 2014 at 03:19:21 pm     #   3 people liked this

Where does "do not touch" fall in there?

posted by justread on Aug 08, 2014 at 03:44:59 pm     #  

I think that would fall under "do not use." I guess that's the main difference...can you swallow it, can you touch it.

posted by Sohio on Aug 08, 2014 at 03:47:56 pm     #  

...can it touch things that touch you...

posted by Sohio on Aug 08, 2014 at 03:57:09 pm     #  

http://iaspub.epa.gov/tdb/pages/contaminant/contaminantOverview.do?contaminantId=-1336577584

CAS Number:
Synonyms: Microcystin-LR
Contaminant Type: Chemical

Microcystins are toxins produced by cyanobacteria. Cyanobacteria are also known as blue-green algae and are ubiquitous in surface water when conditions are favorable for growth and formation of algal blooms. Cyanobacteria release toxins upon cell death or lysis. When released, toxins may persist for weeks to months. [564] Toxins of most concern are microcystins. Microcystins take their name from the genera Microcystis. Most microcystins are hepatotoxins (liver toxins). [564] Hepatotoxins are produced by species of the genera Microcystis, Anabena, Nodularia, Oscillatoria among others. [567] Most microcystins are associated with Microcystis aeruginosa. While the liver is the primary target of microcystins, it is also a skin, eye and throat irritant. [567]

Microcystins are cyclic heptapeptides with seven amino acids. Microcystins are named for the various amino acids on the peptide structure. Microcystin-LR is named for the leucine (L) and argentine (R) amino acids. Microcystin-LR was the first identified and is the most commonly studied. Other common microcystins are RR, YR and LA. [565]

Cyanobacterial blooms can persist with adequate levels of phosphorous and nitrogen, temperatures in the 5 to 30 C range and pH in the 6 to 9 range, with most blooms occurring in late summer and early fall. [567] Microcystin toxins are nonvolatile, hydrophilic, and stable in sunlight, and stable over a wide temperature and pH range. [565] Factors affecting toxin production are light and temperature, with optimum temperatures from cyanobacteria ranging 20 to 25 C. [567] These conditions suggest microcystins present in surface water supplies in warm and sunny climates.

Microcystins are not regulated by USEPA in drinking water, but are unregulated microbial drinking water contaminants listed on the USEPA's Contaminant Candidate Lists (CCLs) 1 and 2 as cyanobacteria and their toxins. [564] Microcystins, specifically Anatoxin-A, Microcystin-LR and Cylindrospermopsin, are on the CCL3. [620] The WHO has established a provisional guideline provisional of 1 ug/L for microcystin-LR. [567]

Reference 564 cites a report of the AWWA Research Foundation wherein 80 percent of samples in Canada and US were positive for microcystins and 4.3 percent were above the WHO guideline of 1 ug/L. Microcystins were reported in raw waters for two Alberta supplies ranging 0.15 to 4.3 ug/L with wide fluctuation over time. [568] A study of 160 surface water supplies in Manitoba reported microcystin-LR detected in 70 percent of raw water supplies ranging up to 1.0 ug/L. [569] Microcystin-LR was detected over a June to December period in Manitoba water supplies. It was found to persist for up to two months following the decline of algal populations. [570]

Date of literature search: 2007.

posted by MIJeff on Aug 08, 2014 at 04:01:14 pm     #  

If you look at the readings in the paragraph the dont go by parts per billion, they do ug/l, which i think are micrograms per liter.

posted by MIJeff on Aug 08, 2014 at 04:03:22 pm     #  

http://www.endmemo.com/sconvert/ug_lppb.php

conversion looks like there is very little difference between the 2 hundredths of thousandths of a ppb

posted by MIJeff on Aug 08, 2014 at 04:10:45 pm     #  

ug/l and parts per billion are the same thing.

posted by Sohio on Aug 08, 2014 at 04:11:30 pm     #  

Hmm for the most part yes, but they aren't exactly the same.

posted by MIJeff on Aug 08, 2014 at 04:20:26 pm     #  

Sohio posted at 03:47:56 PM on Aug 08, 2014:

I think that would fall under "do not use." I guess that's the main difference...can you swallow it, can you touch it.

Saturday morning they were saying not to even touch it. Abundance of caution. If we save one life. No incitement concerns needed.

posted by justread on Aug 08, 2014 at 04:23:41 pm     #  

MIJeff posted at 04:20:26 PM on Aug 08, 2014:

Hmm for the most part yes, but they aren't exactly the same.

1=1.001142

For these purposes, that's the same.

posted by Sohio on Aug 08, 2014 at 05:05:15 pm     #  

justread posted at 04:23:41 PM on Aug 08, 2014:
Sohio posted at 03:47:56 PM on Aug 08, 2014:

I think that would fall under "do not use." I guess that's the main difference...can you swallow it, can you touch it.

Saturday morning they were saying not to even touch it. Abundance of caution. If we save one life. No incitement concerns needed.

And as you have already determined, that is one of the big questions. Why the confusion? It's cookbook. The type of restriction called for per the EPA AND the scope of that restriction are spelled out right on the form-letter announcement that is supposed to be used. There was a definite dropping of the ball on that. How long was it before they said we could touch it again?

Haynam makes a very good point on that. I question his expertise in some other areas, though. In the letters he has posted on his facebook account, he refers to the "Sylvania water intake." Sylvania doesn't have a water intake. In two long emails to the Ohio EPA, he cites in-depth the WHO parameters for microcystin, apparently unaware that the Ohio EPA could and does have its own set of standards. It would be a fair and pertinent question to ask them WHY their standards are evidently applied differently than the WHOs, but he didn't do that. He also misinterpreted Vermont's protocols. I think it's great that he's showing diligence as an elected official, but when a lawyer with over three decades of environmental experience makes mistakes like that, it makes me wonder if there's an agenda at work.

Has Fred had anyone else on this week, perhaps with a laboratory background, to shed some light on this? A city employee would be biased, in CYA mode, and probably unwilling to talk anyway. What about an EPA person? Or better yet, a private sector expert from a firm like Jones & Henry or Veolia?

posted by Sohio on Aug 09, 2014 at 12:32:10 am     #  

ALERT: DO NOT LEAVE YOUR HOMES UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE. A serious threat of rip currents exists today. In order to prevent any deaths or injury, the administration is asking that you stay home and stay tuned to ongoing information-free press conferences. If you must leave your home, personal floatation devices will be distributed at a small number of distribution sites. Most likely in the inner city. Do not take baths or showers, as you could get sucked down the drain.

(No more or less credible of a public safety threat than last Saturday. IMO)

posted by justread on Aug 09, 2014 at 11:42:21 am     #   2 people liked this

You're a bit late with your warning. As you well know, I went down the drain last night around 10:30 and show little sign of surfacing.

posted by madjack on Aug 09, 2014 at 12:44:40 pm     #   1 person liked this

Really? An issue with the water current at the beaches in the far-flung areas of this community is analogous to the water pipes that penetrate every structure in this county like so many metal blood vessels, and the product they deliver?

posted by Sohio on Aug 09, 2014 at 12:46:53 pm     #  

madjack posted at 12:44:40 PM on Aug 09, 2014:

You're a bit late with your warning. As you well know, I went down the drain last night around 10:30 and show little sign of surfacing.

I posted it on facebook at 2:00am. Sorry about that. When you pop up, get some water wings.

posted by justread on Aug 09, 2014 at 12:53:08 pm     #  

Sohio posted at 12:46:53 PM on Aug 09, 2014:

Really? An issue with the water current at the beaches in the far-flung areas of this community is analogous to the water pipes that penetrate every structure in this county like so many metal blood vessels, and the product they deliver?

Can't be too careful, especially in regard to penetration and metal blood vessels.

posted by justread on Aug 09, 2014 at 12:54:53 pm     #  

You CAN be too careful. If you're TOO careful, you'll leave the dust cover on the air intake of the gas mask, and suffocate.

posted by Sohio on Aug 09, 2014 at 01:05:22 pm     #  

THIS JUST IN: URGENT HEATH WARNING! Mayor Collins asks that residents stop at any of the duct tape distribution areas and pick up enough duct tape to seal their attics from the house and environment. It has been determined that many homes have ASBESTOS in their attics. Breathing this asbestos will lead to cancer, mesothelioma or BOTH. When the plan for asbestos mediation is finalized, national guard units in cooperation with the OHIO EPA will assist homeowners with the removal and bagging of all material currently in attics. Fire department personnel will provide dust control with the application of water trucked in from Olander. Until further notice, breathe less and don't jog. If you think you have trouble breathing, please don't visit the emergency room. Don't bother running to Lowe's to buy a N95 respirator. They are gone and there is a line around the building being watched by cops. Just in case.
Instructions: Seal all attic doors and openings. Use plenty of duct tape. DO NOT under any circumstances enter the attic to retrieve any embarrassing mementos of your youth.

posted by justread on Aug 09, 2014 at 01:08:20 pm     #   1 person liked this

When contacted for a statement, WHO spokesman Roger Daltrey said "I can't explain."

posted by justread on Aug 09, 2014 at 01:17:09 pm     #   3 people liked this