Toledo Talk

Shooting at Kroger ----Monroe/Secor

This location has been subject to criticism and trouble in the parking lot with pan handlers and other unsavory types. Last time I was in this store, I took my mother after a doctor appointment and I was leery for her safety. Told her for now on she only goes to Kroger in Sylvania (She lives by Franklin Park Mall).

created by Hoops on Nov 12, 2014 at 10:41:20 am     Home     Comments: 47

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As a former regular shopper there, it was only a matter of time before something bad happened. And I don't understand it, because overall that is not a bad area. I don't consider it "ghetto" at all compared to 90% of the rest of the city. Is it because it's such a busy intersection?

posted by dell_diva on Nov 12, 2014 at 10:51:03 am     #  

Close proximity to the expressway, with multiple entrances makes it ideal for unsavory activity.

I've lived in the neighborhood for almost 9 years now, and this crap can happen anywhere. The neighborhood is still good. Crime happens everywhere.

The blockwatch is pretty vigilant about watching out for suspicious people and events.

posted by webrioter on Nov 12, 2014 at 11:02:11 am     #   3 people liked this

This store is just a few blocks from my house. I have lived there for almost 20 years and have probably been in that store less than 10 times. This shooting happened at 6 pm, right during rush hour! We heard the sirens and figured that there was a big accident close by. Last year, there was a shooting at the Stop N Go on the street behind my house, although that happened in the late evening. It is a good neighborhood, but you can't control who drives/walks into it. Heck, there was a shooting outside a restaurant in BG last week, right on the main drag across from the football stadium....

posted by llz on Nov 12, 2014 at 11:39:11 am     #   1 person liked this

I would not worry about that neighborhood, which is not far from where I live. As other posters have indicated, even crooks have to buy groceries (if grocery shopping was indeed their purpose). I have shopped there countless times and never experienced any problems, though a few times in 20 years I have witnessed shoplifters getting busted there. Meh.

Internet detectives in the Toledo Blade comments section dug up rap sheet information on the victims, who appear to have been drug users and/or dealers. This might have been a drug-deal-gone-bad, and unfortunately public places like busy parking lots get used all the time for deals (easier to blend in, harder for prying eyes to see what is happening).

posted by historymike on Nov 12, 2014 at 12:31:15 pm     #   1 person liked this

Wasn't there some stat floating around out there about the most drug busts happening in the Franklin Park Mall Parking lot and the Kroger on Monroe in Sylvania? Wouldn't that lend credence to the notion of centralized easy access busy parking lots are where these things go down?

posted by ahmahler on Nov 12, 2014 at 12:43:32 pm     #  

I never go to that Kroger. In fact, I try to hit the locally-owned grocery stores as much as possible (with Sautter's being my preference).

Anyway, I think that both Monroe and Central between Douglas and Secor are getting really iffy. I go to the Dunkin' Donuts on Central and am amazed at the amount of vagrants I see around that area--you know, the people who obviously are carrying their worldly belongings with them. I went to UT in the early 1980s and spent a lot of time in the Central/Monroe area--and boy have things changed. Just the fact that Cricket West has had trouble leasing all of its storefronts is probably a sign.

Wish that somebody would put a Dunkin' Donuts in Sylvania, and then I wouldn't have a reason to go to the Douglas area.

posted by Clancy on Nov 12, 2014 at 01:19:39 pm     #  

I was downtown a couple weekends ago and the vagrants were everywhere. They were getting food, and clothes and listening to music and getting support. Other people were getting educated about what homelessness is, how it happens, and what to do about it.

I never felt so unsafe. Or dirty.

posted by justread on Nov 12, 2014 at 01:46:19 pm     #   5 people liked this

But hey at least those windows are clean at Dunkin Donuts.

posted by SherryET on Nov 12, 2014 at 03:52:46 pm     #  

justread - what you saw downtown demonstrates the need for a humane solution for the homeless. That was LifeLine Toledo operated by Steve North, the RV has medical professionals, offering bp checks, meds, or whatever else is needed. The food is provided by a group of restaurant owners who have put together a non-profit to provide hot meals every Saturday. It provides the homeless people a hot meal, medical services and Food for Thought provides food for whoever needs it. It also allows some fellowship. Most of them have some type of mental illness and spend a lot of time alone, so I believe most of them look forward to Saturday morning. There a lot of good people trying to help a problem that most turn their back on. For me personally i find it very sad that a country with our resources can't find a solution to this problem.

posted by trixanne on Nov 12, 2014 at 07:42:23 pm     #   1 person liked this

About six months ago there was a robbery spree being perpetrated by two drug addicts in West Toledo. They hit a bunch of Tan Pro's and other businesses within a week or two. They were caught sitting in that Kroger parking lot with drug paraphernalia in their vehicle along with items tying them to the crimes.

The most recent Bade article concerning yesterdays shooting reads:
Police said the victims went to the Kroger parking lot, 4543 Monroe St., near Secor Road, “for a meet.” The victims met with two suspects who apparently shot them after some sort of confrontation. The suspects then fled in what was described as a dark-colored sedan.

So here's the thing - A while back you have two men who are sticking up local businesses at gun point. Where do they choose to lay low? Now you have a group of gang members who are going to "a meet." Where do they feel safe going for their "meet?"

Some people might think that the Kroger's on Monroe street is not that dangerous. I can tell you that the criminals certainly find it a safe place for them where they do not feel they will stick out or be too noticeable. That tells me something. My wife and I stopped shopping there at night because so many of the customers and people sitting in their vehicles smelled like they were attending a Fish concert.

I do not blame Kroger for the safety - although I think they let the lot get filthy compared to other stores in the area. A business should not have to hire layers of security. Knowing that this is a "Hot spot" I would think the TPD would have permanent cameras at this location like they do at the Franklin Park Mall.

posted by Danneskjold on Nov 12, 2014 at 07:59:33 pm     #  

Shortly after the store opened "back in the day" and they still had Carry Out Boys, I was approached by a young black man who begged me to teach him how to give himself an IM injection. I was in my nurses uniform with my name tag on and had stopped in after work. When asked what the purpose of the injection was going to be he calmly told me he wanted to inject himself with steroids so he could play basketball at UT. Of course I declined his request and strongly discouraged steroid use. True story!

posted by RockChick on Nov 12, 2014 at 09:39:15 pm     #  

Yeah, danneskjold, the dirt is what kept me away from that Kroger ten years ago when I first moved into the neighborhood. Cars were getting broken into (throughout the day) at that time, and the nighttime scene featured lots of slow cruising and loud music. Also, the boyfriends of the cashiers would park right at the curb waiting for the girls to get a smoke break. I had to navigate my elderly neighbor past several thugmobiles just to get to the front door. Overall, I got the impression that Kroger doesn't particularly care what happens to anyone once they step outside those doors.

posted by viola on Nov 12, 2014 at 09:44:08 pm     #  

Here's one of the "victims" facebook pages.
https://www.facebook.com/sean.jacobs.37?fref=ts

posted by hockeyfan on Nov 12, 2014 at 10:15:38 pm     #  

I really think that Kroger needs to have a heavy armed private security presence 24-hours-a-day. You hate to see that happen so far away from the inner-city, but it's a sign of the times in Toledo.

It benefits businesses and cities to tighten-up security to the point that the bad guys move on.

posted by Clancy on Nov 12, 2014 at 11:13:44 pm     #  

hockeyfan posted at 09:15:38 PM on Nov 12, 2014:

Here's one of the "victims" facebook pages.
https://www.facebook.com/sean.jacobs.37?fref=ts

You do realize that the spelling of the victim's name in the paper ("Shawn") is different from the spelling of the name of the FB account ("Sean"), right? I know it is tempting to make that leap, especially in light of the fact that "Sean" likes to pose with guns on FB, but other than a similarity in name, I am not seeing the direct connections.

posted by historymike on Nov 13, 2014 at 08:31:39 am     #   6 people liked this

Clancy posted at 10:13:44 PM on Nov 12, 2014:

I really think that Kroger needs to have a heavy armed private security presence 24-hours-a-day. You hate to see that happen so far away from the inner-city, but it's a sign of the times in Toledo.

It benefits businesses and cities to tighten-up security to the point that the bad guys move on.

If there are 50,000 homeowners left in Toledo, and homeowners are primarily responsible for paying the community's bills, each could pay a levy of say, 60 bucks. That would give us $3 Million to use to contract with a provider of "heavy armed private security."

I highly recommend Blackwater. They could make quick work of the "vagrants," "thugs," "punks," and other undesirable elements of society without all the complicating and annoying "constitution" stuff that the government is saddled with. Those they don't kill can be kidnapped and taken to places like South Chicago and dropped off on the street.

I for one would feel much better about Krogering if I were to be escorted to my car by 4 or 5 guys in carrying M4s and wearing earpieces and night vision glasses.

I can't believe Kroger hasn't thought of this already. I mean, if they care about their customers and stuff.

posted by justread on Nov 13, 2014 at 11:35:09 am     #   7 people liked this

And we need to work quick.
The pools won't be open next summer.

posted by justread on Nov 13, 2014 at 11:38:03 am     #   1 person liked this

historymike posted at 07:31:39 AM on Nov 13, 2014:
hockeyfan posted at 09:15:38 PM on Nov 12, 2014:

Here's one of the "victims" facebook pages.
https://www.facebook.com/sean.jacobs.37?fref=ts

You do realize that the spelling of the victim's name in the paper ("Shawn") is different from the spelling of the name of the FB account ("Sean"), right? I know it is tempting to make that leap, especially in light of the fact that "Sean" likes to pose with guns on FB, but other than a similarity in name, I am not seeing the direct connections.

What? people aren't using their real birth names on facebook? Yes, I did notice the spelling, but the original story on the Blade's website spelled it like the facebook name. Here's the link http://www.toledoblade.com/West/2014/11/11/Toledo-police-on-scene-of-shooting-in-West-Toledo.html Did you see the recent posts on his page about people wishing him well from his gunshot? I also noticed that he lists his name as "Benjamin Franklin", but I doubt that he's really related.

posted by hockeyfan on Nov 13, 2014 at 01:13:25 pm     #  

justread posted at 10:35:09 AM on Nov 13, 2014:
Clancy posted at 10:13:44 PM on Nov 12, 2014:

I really think that Kroger needs to have a heavy armed private security presence 24-hours-a-day. You hate to see that happen so far away from the inner-city, but it's a sign of the times in Toledo.

It benefits businesses and cities to tighten-up security to the point that the bad guys move on.

If there are 50,000 homeowners left in Toledo, and homeowners are primarily responsible for paying the community's bills, each could pay a levy of say, 60 bucks. That would give us $3 Million to use to contract with a provider of "heavy armed private security."

I highly recommend Blackwater. They could make quick work of the "vagrants," "thugs," "punks," and other undesirable elements of society without all the complicating and annoying "constitution" stuff that the government is saddled with. Those they don't kill can be kidnapped and taken to places like South Chicago and dropped off on the street.

I for one would feel much better about Krogering if I were to be escorted to my car by 4 or 5 guys in carrying M4s and wearing earpieces and night vision glasses.

I can't believe Kroger hasn't thought of this already. I mean, if they care about their customers and stuff.

The police aren't the answer to modern day protection. Until people step up and want to get involved in watching out for their neighborhood and each other, safety as we know it will continue to deteriorate. I'm not talking about lynch mobs with torches and pitchforks. I'm talking about stepping up as organized groups and actually doing something. The Old West End sets a good example. What they did and are doing is a good starting point. They have created and continue to work at keeping a decent neighborhood. It's not perfect but it's much better than the surrounding neighborhoods in the area.

posted by hockeyfan on Nov 13, 2014 at 01:19:32 pm     #   2 people liked this

It's interesting that some posters equate an armed security presence with "M4s, earpieces, and night vision glasses" and as a violation of Constitutional rights. One might call that a "leap."

It is naive to think that an armed security/police presence won't decrease crime. If you're going to do a drug deal or steal a purse in a parking lot, you are less likely to do so knowing there's a good guy with a gun.

A camera might record a crime and assist in catching the criminal. But if you want to discourage/prevent crime, you do it with an armed presence.

posted by Clancy on Nov 13, 2014 at 02:10:40 pm     #   4 people liked this

Clancy, I'm pretty sure there some sarcasm in the air here. :) You have to admit, it's pretty ridiculous to think that an armed presence, ANY armed presence, is necessary to keep you safe while grocery shopping. Personally, if this were happening at a store I had been known to frequent, I would be frequenting anywhere else but there.

posted by nana on Nov 13, 2014 at 02:46:13 pm     #   1 person liked this

Am I the only one that never noticed anything sketchy or scary while shopping at that Krogers? I only avoided it because of crowds, not crime.

posted by upso on Nov 13, 2014 at 02:52:26 pm     #   6 people liked this

This whole situation can be resolved by passing out 50,000 white cowboy hats. That would only cost around $1,000,000.

Nothing implies "armed good guy" like a white cowboy hat.

posted by justread on Nov 13, 2014 at 02:53:21 pm     #   2 people liked this

Need to pencil in the cost of a bunch of .44 magnums; the most powerful handgun... and a crate of Charles Bronson masks aka Paul Kersey.

posted by Mariner on Nov 13, 2014 at 03:55:23 pm     #   2 people liked this

upso posted at 01:52:26 PM on Nov 13, 2014:

Am I the only one that never noticed anything sketchy or scary while shopping at that Krogers? I only avoided it because of crowds, not crime.

I don't think I've seen anything "scary" but with the constant beggars with signs at the main entrance of the parking lot, who seem to be wearing much better clothes than me, and the occasional "out of place" person just sitting in the car in the far part of the lot, I like to keep my eyes open when going there. Which, I guess is good advice for any place these days. I'm much more bothered by the lack of common respect, courtesy and lack of a simple smile from fellow shoppers there. It doesn't take much effort to smile at a fellow shopper when passing in the aisles. It also doesn't take much to say "excuse me" and "thank you" when maneuvering your cart around other shoppers either. Eh, maybe I expect too much from fellow human beings.

posted by hockeyfan on Nov 13, 2014 at 04:14:43 pm     #   4 people liked this

upso posted at 01:52:26 PM on Nov 13, 2014:

Am I the only one that never noticed anything sketchy or scary while shopping at that Krogers? I only avoided it because of crowds, not crime.

I was there once, and this guy with a funny haircut and sleeve tattoos was there. He had an artomatic 419 shirt on, shorts, and some chuck taylor shoes. I was scared to death of him. When he left, he drove off toward the hood, or at least the OWE.

Close one. Whew.

posted by justread on Nov 13, 2014 at 05:30:02 pm     #   7 people liked this

In response to UPSO's observation - I think it was last year I witnessed an assault in the parking lot of that Kroger. I thought it was initially a couple fighting but the man took off on foot down Rohr Avenue and the girl was helped by some people who were closer to the incident then I was and she used a cell phone to call it into the police.

For me I guess it boils down to it's not that I don't feel safe but I do try to avoid putting myself in situations where I might find it necessary to defend my life or myself from great bodily harm.

It would be interesting if there was access to police phone records where they tracked "call in" incidents by location. Much more valuable then going by differing people's perceptions and observations.

posted by Danneskjold on Nov 13, 2014 at 05:34:54 pm     #   1 person liked this

This thread got me thinking how it feels to work there. Yeah, these kinds of incidents can happen anywhere but that particular space is getting a reputation for it. Very glad there haven't been any 'assault on employee' reports. THEN is when they should bring in the armed presence. Hate to see them close like Southwyck.

posted by nana on Nov 13, 2014 at 06:32:33 pm     #  

Egads, justread! You might have been in a parking lot with somebody from the OWE!!

posted by Bandito on Nov 13, 2014 at 10:37:29 pm     #  

Take cover. I thought all those people were corralled and under control. Yea gads.

posted by Mariner on Nov 14, 2014 at 06:18:33 am     #  

Since everyone seems to be beating around the bush, I'll put it out there.

I've heard many people refer to that Kroger by a variety of offensive nicknames over the years, because the clientele at that location is more black than the suburban Kroger locations.

Perhaps not all middle class whites in Toledo feel that way, but I've overheard enough conversations to know that at least some do. And that they perceive it as unsafe because of it.

I don't agree with the sentiment, of course, but unfortunately it exists.

posted by mom2 on Nov 14, 2014 at 09:59:07 am     #   5 people liked this

I don't see that as the case Mom2. There has been a continual dialogue concerning a worsening safety condition on the West side of Toledo. Kroger frequently comes up. Some people will pull out the "you're a racist rant" on contributors but what I see has nothing to do with "race."

People have continually made observations concerning the safety around this area on Toledo Talk threads. As the concerns are expressed we also see more of those concerns coming to fruition. Detractors might think it hyperbole but having lived in this area for over twenty years I do not. Imagine the people who a year ago were saying "things aren't so bad... " now there's been a deadly shooting down the street from me a few months back, now there is a double shooting in Kroger's parking lot that is discussed in this post.

You can put blinders on and continually ignore the problem and say "no big deal" everytime there is an occurrence but eventually when families and working people decide it is not safe to live in an area then they will not.

posted by Danneskjold on Nov 14, 2014 at 01:55:55 pm     #   4 people liked this

Welcome to my world. My son was pulled over last night after picking up the grandkids from my house. The police thought he had left another house that they were watching. Luckily he knew the officer and it turned out OK. So now I have to worry about my guests getting pulled over when they depart?

posted by SherryET on Nov 14, 2014 at 02:20:22 pm     #  

All I'm saying is that I've heard that store referred to as the Broger (black Kroger) for several years now. Almost as long as I've lived in the Toleso area.

(That's one of the offensive nicknames I referenced above...I've also heard ghetto Kroger and similar terms which were already referenced by others in this thread.)

And, yes, I do believe that perception drove some people from shopping there long before there were any news stories about incidents.

posted by mom2 on Nov 14, 2014 at 02:25:09 pm     #   3 people liked this

This is devolving quickly.

a) Was this a random incident or did it have specificity (i.e.-between known associates that used that location to meet up in this case)?
b) Is this an isolated incident?

Think about those 2 elements. Now, please tell me how this very middle class grocery store, with a well lit parking lot is more susceptible to violent crimes? Because you think people "look suspicious?". Your safety is always a question of your own perception until something happens to you. So, that said. Where do you feel safe? Sylvania? Perrysburg? This incident had nothing to do with any of us or anyone we know. This happened there, because that seedy element decided to do it there, but wasn't a random act of senseless aggression. There was some conflict/ history, that none of us had anything to do with. To think for a second that that piece of property is any worse than, anywhere within the city of Toledo is a little paranoid. Nothing is going to happen to you, and if it does, it's random. There are certainly more seedy elements of this city where you shouldn't be strolling around at bad times without lighting, but 6pm at a grocery store is not prime time for gang violence. Discretion and crime are partners, hard to be discreet in that situation.

Please quit with the profiling.

posted by ahmahler on Nov 14, 2014 at 02:37:15 pm     #   2 people liked this

mom2 posted at 01:25:09 PM on Nov 14, 2014:

All I'm saying is that I've heard that store referred to as the Broger (black Kroger) for several years now. Almost as long as I've lived in the Toleso area.

(That's one of the offensive nicknames I referenced above...I've also heard ghetto Kroger and similar terms which were already referenced by others in this thread.)

And, yes, I do believe that perception drove some people from shopping there long before there were any news stories about incidents.

As someone whose relatives in the area are all over 60 years old, they will not set foot in stores and shopping centers where they feel unsafe. And that place is one of them.

Call it racist, call it misinformed, call it whatever--these family members are good people who are getting on in years and--frankly-- scared of being hurt or robbed. And the "urban yute" vibe, with loud thumpty-thump / foul-language music blasting absolutely makes them feel uncomfortable.

Once a place has a reputation as dangerous, it is damn hard to scrub that out. I guarantee that a majority of people who have a choice are trekking over to other supermarket locations because this shooting story is going to be fodder for conversations over the holidays.

BTW, I always thought the real Broger's was at the corner of Glendale/Detroit. Now I know...

posted by oldhometown on Nov 14, 2014 at 02:46:08 pm     #   1 person liked this

I am confused by the commentary by a few contributors. Like many other blogs and commentary all over the net any discussions regarding safety turn into spats about racism and profiling (YAWN!). Safety is the concern and the crime and violence is getting worse on the West side.

Personal experience here! - When I have frequently witnessed and smelled drug use in the Kroger parking lot. When I have seen a reported assault in the Kroger parking lot... where there has now been a double shooting in the Kroger parking lot.....At what point do you take the blinders off? Seriously.... what has to happen next or how much more frequently when it is no longer... "random?"

posted by Danneskjold on Nov 14, 2014 at 02:56:06 pm     #   1 person liked this

I shop at 3 different krogers in the area depending on what I'm doing and when. Whether it's the one on Monroe, Alexis, or Laskey, I can honestly say that I have not noticed a major difference in the kind of people that shop at them. Each one of them seems to have a wide range of customers. Sure, the Sylvania Kroger might not some of us "lower end" customers frequenting as much, but the above mentioned 3 seem to have the same general customers. It's a sign of the times to be aware of your surroundings no matter where you are. The holiday season coming up doesn't make me feel particularly warm and fuzzy about the Franklin Park Mall area, but that's what society has become now.

posted by hockeyfan on Nov 14, 2014 at 03:03:33 pm     #   2 people liked this

I stopped shopping at that Kroger because the aisles were way too narrow and it's always jammed with people. I didn't know that makes me a racist :)

posted by JoeyGee on Nov 14, 2014 at 03:51:10 pm     #   5 people liked this

Danneskjold posted at 01:56:06 PM on Nov 14, 2014:

I am confused by the commentary by a few contributors. Like many other blogs and commentary all over the net any discussions regarding safety turn into spats about racism and profiling (YAWN!). Safety is the concern and the crime and violence is getting worse on the West side.

Personal experience here! - When I have frequently witnessed and smelled drug use in the Kroger parking lot. When I have seen a reported assault in the Kroger parking lot... where there has now been a double shooting in the Kroger parking lot.....At what point do you take the blinders off? Seriously.... what has to happen next or how much more frequently when it is no longer... "random?"

Again: I have shopped at this Kroger for decades, and have never experienced anything remotely unsafe, unless you count clueless people who push their carts without watching where they are going.

Sorry: just because I do not share the same level of crime-paranoia as you does not mean I am walking around with blinders on, Danneskjold. I fully recognize that crime can happen anywhere, and I work to minimize becoming a victim, whether I am shopping at the neighborhood Kroger, browsing for antiques on LaGrange Street, or visiting a high-end retailer in a "safe" shopping area like Levis Commons.

posted by historymike on Nov 14, 2014 at 06:17:25 pm     #   6 people liked this

Had to go to Kroger today and decided to be extra observant. Was... pleasantly surprised. I expected the lot to be filthy which was the case on many previous visits but it was pretty clean, I noticed even the Bus stop on Monroe Street was pretty tidy and clean which is very rare. I assume Kroger is not responsible for keeping the bus stop clean - still when it is trashed it does reflects on their store. Did not feel unsafe but did not expect to during the day.

I still agree with commentary above that the recent shooting (which was probably gang related) was only a matter of time. For an incident to occur once is a phenomenon but when incident(s) are occurring more frequently that suggests a pattern.

Time will tell. As a neighbor I hope this is the last thread in a long time about Kroger.

posted by Danneskjold on Nov 15, 2014 at 02:48:05 pm     #  

Too close to home...moving out of Toledo and heading for higher ground.

posted by dino on Nov 17, 2014 at 09:41:21 pm     #   1 person liked this

dino posted at 08:41:21 PM on Nov 17, 2014:

Too close to home...moving out of Toledo and heading for higher ground.

You are going to need to be at least 700 feet above sea level to keep from getting mugged.

posted by justread on Nov 18, 2014 at 07:55:17 am     #   3 people liked this

You are going to need to be at least 700 feet above sea level to keep from getting mugged.

Quick-to the Irish Hills, where all they worry about is meth lab explosions.

posted by ahmahler on Nov 18, 2014 at 11:03:04 am     #   2 people liked this

Accend to say 8k, 9k and above. You won't find too many punk sissies there.

posted by Mariner on Nov 18, 2014 at 12:05:35 pm     #  

Move to Canada?

posted by MIJeff on Nov 18, 2014 at 02:15:47 pm     #  

No. Go above the tree line pilgrim

posted by Mariner on Nov 18, 2014 at 05:42:37 pm     #