A A A A Search :
Toledo Talk  
From hockeyfan's workspace   

Fire in toledo apartments caused by illegal fireworks?

While I feel sorrow for those that lost their apartments, I wonder if this could have been prevented with a little police interaction.

Funny how every 4th of July, we hear about how fireworks are illegal. Last night I sat from my car and watched the fireworks downtown. I was near the entrance of the docks. At least 2 policemen were there watching traffic. While there, I watched so many fireworks get set off from houses nearby. Some were not further away than one house. All the time I watched, I never saw the police warn the people shooting off the fireworks, nor did I see them use their radio to call for backup to warn those people clearly breaking the law.

Now, if it is a law, why isn't anything done? I understand that enforcing the firework law is hard, but if we can't enforce it, why have the law in the first place?

If people were warned on a regular or semi-regular basis, maybe the apartments would still be there today.

created by hockeyfan on Jul 05, 2008 at 06:08:34 pm     Comments: 22

print      source      versions

Comments ... #

Perhaps the Police were too busy finishing off a box of donuts.

Check out this "Redneck Fireworks" video on YouTube, as this guy lights his 8,500 bottle-rockets at once:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9uL8iRL6nI

posted by WalterAnthony on Jul 05, 2008 at 07:32:49 pm     #



There were literally tens of thousands of people in metro Toledo setting off fireworks. The couple hundred police officers aren't going to even put a dent in that number, especially when the 4th of July tends to increase violent crime and the need for massive crowd control.

posted by HeyHey on Jul 05, 2008 at 10:58:04 pm     #



A recent article in the NYT said that since 9-11 the use of fireworks has been steadily increasing. Unless you have an extreme fire hazard situation like California, you won't see any pre-emptive law enforcement hard press to enforce the laws. Fireworks on the Fourth are part of who we are. I personally think the laws should be relaxed. I'm sick and tired of this nanny nation crap trying to legislate safety where none is wanted.

Jesus, I rode a bicycle without a helmet as a kid. I water skied without a life jacket or a spotter. My brother who was driving the boat tried on purpose to dump me in the weeds. I raced a class B hydroplane boat, flipped upside down and came up under the boat. I can drive a stick, change a tire and the oil in a car. I rode all kinds of motorcycles and scooters over all kinds of terrain. I tweezer picked a truck load of gravel out of my knees, hands and elbows. I played with mercury that my Dad saved in gallon pickle jugs. I pulled up asbestos tile before anyone knew it was ahazard. I fell in the creek too many times to count, head first a couple of times. I fell out of trees and off the garage roof. As long as we didn't catch the house on fire fireworks were fine with my folks. We played hard, we got dirty and banged up and hated iodine but knew it was necessary. This current generation of over santized over protected video game addicted kids are pathetic. And oh by the way - I'm a female (wife and mother of two kids).

posted by holland on Jul 05, 2008 at 11:58:40 pm     #



I am not against fireworks, just the fact the it's yet another law on the books that can't be enforced. Severely punish those who aren't responsible with them.

posted by hockeyfan on Jul 06, 2008 at 12:51:04 am     #



holland:
Hey! I like video games... they aren't the problem, the overuse of them is the problem (see World of Warcraft). But I pretty much agree with everything else. I grew up with the blessing of older parents, I was a very late child. The only thing I was ever told boiled down to: Don't do anything that will get you killed. And that was within reason like playing with guns or lighting myself on fire or whatnot.

posted by Reinhart on Jul 06, 2008 at 11:41:54 am     #



Good for you and your parents Reinhart. Maybe there is hope after all. I just think the people in Second Life need to prioritize getting a full first life. If they did they wouldn't have time to sit and play pretend. There's just too much real stuff out there to get engaged in.

posted by holland on Jul 06, 2008 at 11:53:26 am     #



I think I might not be happy living in a perfectly legitimate residential building that could go up in flames and spread so quickly. I think living in a tent might be a more safe and sensible option than living in kindling.

And how do 8 buildings get taken in a 1 building fire? Is that considered a success in socialized firefighting?

posted by charlatan on Jul 06, 2008 at 12:42:25 pm     #



I was at the annual fireworks display at the little park in South Toledo at the eastern end of Heatherdowns. The police were there from the beginning, and told people to stay out of the park and to light off fireworks from driveways. That's when I looked up and saw trees and wires, and of course cars are in driveways, and naturally driveways are close to houses. All that was apparently preferable to the police ... instead of the wide-open area of the park where a fireworks misfire (and they happen every year) won't harm shit.

Eventually fireworks were going off in the park, and I have no idea what the police are trying to do with sending us mixed messages. Well, maybe they think that by harassing us, we will stop.

posted by GuestZero on Jul 06, 2008 at 01:41:09 pm     #



From the July 6, 2008 Blade story :

Fire Chief Mike Wolever said arson investigators are working to determine whether fireworks sparked the blaze. Fire officials said the blaze was the most intense Toledo apartment fire in at least a decade. Structural damage was estimated at $5 million.

Arson investigators? Most intense apartment fire in a decade? Surely, they're not picking through the rubble, right? I assume their investigation only involves talking to witnesses. And really, why is an investigation even occurring?

Reminds me of this January 22, 2006 Toledo Talk posting about local fire investigations :

Maybe someone can provide insight into what goes into the decision to determine whether or not to investigate the cause of a fire. Friday's [2006] South Toledo fire caused $2 million of damage to several businesses. Last September's [2005] South Toledo fire caused $1 million in damage to six residences.

About this past Friday's fire:

"Investigators still aren't sure what caused the fire. Once all the hotspots are put out, they'll go inside and start looking for evidence."

About last September's:

"Fire officials said they don't plan to dig through the rubble because they don't expect to find anything that could help them determine how the blaze began."

One of the residents who lost her home in last September's fire was:

"Claudia Vercellotti, a local coordinator of the Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests."

Interestingly, a week after the September fire:

"Another SNAP Leader, Barbara Garcia Boehland of San Antonio, Texas, lost everything when her home burned to the ground."

After the September fire, Chief Mike Bell said:

"We can't rule out anything, but we're not continuing the investigation unless we get more information. As far as heat, it would be in the top 10 worst fires I've seen in my 25 years."

After the September fire, Deputy Fire Chief Bob Metzger said:

"You can come up with all sorts of conspiracies. We're in the business of trying to determine fact. Nothing on that scene will identify what started that fire."

Was that September [2005] fire ever investigated for the possibility of arson? Was a cause ever determined? I don't know if the September fire wound up being investigated or not. I just know that Bell didn't plan on investigating it.

Since Friday's [2006] fire damgage was $2 million and last September's fire was "only" $1 million, is that why Friday's fire will be investigated? Is it because businesses were destroyed versus residences?

If the cause of the September fire wasn't investigated, was that because it was one of the hottest fires Bell has ever seen? Too hot for any evidence to remain?

posted by jr on Jul 06, 2008 at 07:19:30 pm     #



Sorry, but I feel that if you set off fireworks above your home without any experience or safety measures, it's just a case of "natural selection".

posted by Newbie on Jul 06, 2008 at 09:03:36 pm     #



A moderate form of Social Darwinism - I'm with you Newbie.

Two SNAP members lose everything to arson a week apart. Nobody investigates? Where there's smoke there's fire.

posted by holland on Jul 06, 2008 at 10:29:56 pm     #



The sad thing is, some idiot shoots off fireworks above HIS apartment complex and takes out the homes of over 100 other people.

it does seem pretty odd that it could take out so much of the complex.
Makes you wonder if the building codes for multi family dwellings need to be upgraded.
Hell, IIRC the nearest fire station is just down the road.

posted by JeepMaker on Jul 07, 2008 at 11:07:12 am     #



Now they're talking about banning fireworks in Toledo. Time to light up the suburbs I guess.

Fireworks are boring for the most part, but banning them won't help keep the stock of poor housing safe. That's like banning lightning.

Why not ban substandard flammable housing? Or give incentives to upgrade self-sufficient fire prevention and fire control measures?

http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080707/NEWS07/807070347

posted by charlatan on Jul 08, 2008 at 12:33:48 am     #



Typical of that moron Navarre's way of thinking.

Hey, someone got killed in an auto accident the other day, ban cars.
Hell, let's ban everything except standing still in your living room, can't get hurt doing that eh?

posted by JeepMaker on Jul 08, 2008 at 12:39:58 pm     #



Let's ban the sale of lawn darts too !!......or did they already do that ?

posted by WalterAnthony on Jul 08, 2008 at 03:35:38 pm     #



LOL, yeah, I believe they did.

posted by JeepMaker on Jul 08, 2008 at 10:55:43 pm     #



...let's ban everything except standing still in your living room, can't get hurt doing that eh?

Standing still for long periods allows the blood to pool in your feet and legs causing swelling and discoloration.

posted by KraZyKat on Jul 08, 2008 at 11:19:42 pm     #



Let's ban banning stuff.

posted by JeepMaker on Jul 09, 2008 at 01:40:17 pm     #



To attempt strict compliance with laws governing fireworks, whether they be state or local laws, is, unfortunately, throwing good money after bad.

Drugs and the possession/use thereof is illegal, yet I�d bet that just about every neighborhood has a drug dealer.

Driving while intoxicated is illegal, but it�s said that 1 car out of 10 on the road during the late nights on weekends is thought to be legally drunk - over .08

Despite increased enforcement of these laws, there are still folks out breaking the law. To put more �pressure� on one area of enforcement, you�re taking away from another, and to increase law enforcement presence to the point that no one could possibly break the law turns us into a �Police State�.

While I have the utmost respect for Navarre (NOT!), I think his mouth is writing checks his ass can�t cover. His penchant for political life is showing!

But hey, it sure sounds good, huh?

They're talking about banning fireworks in the City of Toledo? Maybe the City should look into a State Law that's already on the books - ORC 3743.65. Enact a law that's already a law? Right from the Department of Redundancy Department!

posted by GraphicsGuy on Jul 10, 2008 at 12:48:30 am     #



On a related note, someone I know who lost EVERYTHING in the fire has already been asked by BUCKEYE CABLE to pay $500 for the cable box lost in the fire. Out of the kindness of their heart they reduced it to $500 from $700. Bastards.

posted by blademole on Jul 10, 2008 at 03:40:49 pm     #



blademole,
As disgusting as that is, it's VERY common! Same thing has happened in areas ravaged by tornado's and flooding where multiple families have lost everything. I understand them wanting to recoup their money, but it doesn't cost anywhere near $700 or even $500 to make those boxes. But that's Suckeye for ya! It's all about the mighty dollar rather than giving a shit about the customers.

posted by justsimplyholly on Jul 10, 2008 at 04:05:58 pm     #



Tell Buckeye to pursue the people responsible for the fire for the recovery of the value of the box. Force the issue. Maybe Buckeye will then seek a judgment. Note that a person who loses everything in an apartment fire is prone to bankrupt. Draw your own conclusions.

posted by GuestZero on Jul 10, 2008 at 05:06:46 pm     #