Toledo Talk

22nd Century Committee...

http://toledoblade.com/local/2015/05/27/Area-leaders-create-22nd-Century-Committee.html

Thoughts?

created by upso on May 28, 2015 at 08:33:59 pm     Local-Politics     Comments: 66

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Comments ... #

Participation in this group will be a nice important looking line on a resume or bio someday, but beyond that it means next to nothing.

In the comments section of the article:

The City of Toledo employs a full-time Economic Development Director and pays him $133,000.00 annually.

If our full-time Economic Development Director doesn't have the skill set necessary "to bring together all of the divergent development plans that have already been produced by several local organizations"....why are we paying him?

Anyone?...anyone?...Bueller?...

posted by oldhometown on May 28, 2015 at 08:45:02 pm     #   5 people liked this

1) Welcome to ProMedicaville. Or will it be called Oostraville?

2) How many other similar plans have been done in recent decades and at what cost? Were they adhered to, or not? Have they been deemed to be flawed, and a new plan is needed?

3) Who are the self-proclaimed leaders and organizations involved?

4) Was the city's participation in this authorized by the Council? If not, under what portion of the City Ordinance is the mayor authorized to do so unilaterally?

5) Will we soon se an editorial cartoon with Mayor Paul Hicks-Hudson as a marionette or puppet with Oostra as the puppet-master?

posted by Bandito on May 28, 2015 at 08:54:34 pm     #  

Ugh! Old idea that never worked. Next they will try to re-brand the city, again.

posted by Molsonator on May 28, 2015 at 09:00:16 pm     #   1 person liked this

Old idea that never worked? The last time an idea like this happened, it was the Seagate project. Pick a building in downtown, and you've got about a 50/50 chance it was built as a result.

posted by Johio83 on May 28, 2015 at 10:23:26 pm     #  

Also, I need to throw my hat into the "huge supporter" ring for this idea. Corporate leadership is something Toledo severely lacks compared to the downtowns of more developed cities. This will be a great step forward.

posted by Johio83 on May 28, 2015 at 10:25:17 pm     #  

Johio83 posted at 10:23:26 PM on May 28, 2015:

Old idea that never worked? The last time an idea like this happened, it was the Seagate project. Pick a building in downtown, and you've got about a 50/50 chance it was built as a result.

I'm also optimistic for this plan and enjoy seeing corporate partnerships. I see that a Carty supporter is against it, which is funny on many levels.

The one area where I disagree with you, Johio, is about the last time an idea like this happened. The Toledo 2020 Plan is not much different than this and the "goals" of that haven't been met and it hasn't been close. But I guess there is still 4.5 years to break the 400,000 population barrier, get over 10,000 people living downtown, and for TPS to be the best school system in senior testing in Ohio.

posted by clt212 on May 28, 2015 at 11:02:44 pm     #   1 person liked this

As far as I know, the Toledo 2020 plan had/has little if anything to do with heads of local corporations. The Seagate project started with Dodd deciding to build a new headquarters for OI, and the city got involved with business leaders and banks to turn it into a full scale rebuild of half of downtown.

posted by Johio83 on May 28, 2015 at 11:19:56 pm     #  

Is the 22nd Century Committee affiliated with the New World Order that George Noory discusses on Coast to Coast?

From my August 2013 comment

Look at the way Toledo's streets are laid out, especially Detroit Ave, Nebraska Ave, and Cherry St ...

posted by jr on May 28, 2015 at 11:55:30 pm     #   8 people liked this

too funny

posted by MIJeff on May 28, 2015 at 11:58:26 pm     #  

I sincerely need a lesson on what johio is talking about. In the past 8 years or so of living downtown (specifically the past 3 or so), there have been several of these collaborations and I've not seen any measurable results. Didn't one just spend upwards of $800k or so for the whole "It Matterrs Where You Make It" or whatnot? Where did that help? What is the function of Destination Toledo, DTDC, RGP, and all the other alphabet soup committees? I ask because I just don't understand why we need more of what seems like the same.

posted by Brewster on May 29, 2015 at 07:45:49 am     #   1 person liked this

The alphabet soup of action committees are just a place for local politicians to cool their heels and earn a living while waiting for their turn to get into or back into local and regional politics.

posted by MIJeff on May 29, 2015 at 08:19:32 am     #   1 person liked this

Amen Brewster.

posted by Molsonator on May 29, 2015 at 08:28:37 am     #  

“Every place we go, everybody is working on a piece of a plan and so the idea is coordinating it a little bit,” said Randy Oostra, CEO of ProMedica.

$100,000 to hire someone to "coordinate it a little bit"? Doesn't sound like a dynamic plan.

posted by Molsonator on May 29, 2015 at 08:38:17 am     #  

every item that passes through the plan commission and then on to city council is checked and discussed with how it complies to the 20/20 plan... the plan matters... some. political realities often interfere and therefore, often, political people decide a project does not have to comply with the 20/20 plan.

much of the 20/20 plan is aspirational. so, for example, saying the schools will become great in a plan is a way of recognizing that bad schools hinder our quality of life and economic performance. however, changing all the factors that contribute to good/bad schools is not within the power of a plan such as the 20/20.

the original 20/20 plan had a small budget.... relative to APA recommendations for a city our size undertaking such a plan. nowhere near 800k.... maybe a quarter that size. we consequently got a relatively bad consultant. the plan commission staff even then was about half the size cities our size should have... but given these problems the staff did commendable work on getting the 20/20 plan as far as they did.

money was pulled out of that original 20/20 budget to work up a more detailed plan for downtown. as a component of that plan, a business leader group was involved as were non-profits, property owners, politicians, and other stakeholder groups.

the toledo design center, a volunteer organization on a shoestring budget, has continued to try to refine the neighborhood plans in and around downtown. specific neighborhood plans were not in the original 20/20 budget. these neighborhood plans from the design center build on the 20/20 and further clarify, sometimes with specific project, sometimes with overlay plans.

brewster, i hope you see tangible differences in the downtown in the last 8 years... ok, they are hard to measure but... the number of apartment units, businesses, and real estate prices have all gone up and can be measured but the sense of vitality and "place" or "community" is considerably improved. any number of marketing campaigns are always underway by a myriad of different groups, public sector and private, sometimes coordinated, often not.

there are a large number of planning issues that do need to be addressed as we enter the home stretch of the original 20/20 plan and move onto our next plan... just consider the roads of downtown. michigan and erie are still one-way... they carry lots of traffic but all that traffic makes them difficult for business and pedestrian. this also isolates ontario which is under-used... what to do? I 75 doesnt drop vehicles off at our main distribution artery downtown, summit street. it has on and off ramps at confusing often difficult to access places... what to do? collingwood and/or nebraska (see jr's map!! haha) dont connect well with clayton and the high level bridge. coordinating these streets as well as the highway ramps will make our light industrial areas easier to access and therefore more economically viable. our pols have chosen to build new institutions (stadium and arena) where they cut off streets. can we improve the grid or concentrate infil projects so these areas are easier, safer, and more interesting to traverse.

from several perspectives, it makes sense for the mayor to meet with community business leaders and they all have their own reasons for wanting to get publicity for it. additionally, there would be complaints of being isolated or just cow-towing to unions if the mayor didnt meet with business leaders. for taxpayers maybe the best reason is we are getting private money to do public planning... they are stakeholders and were going to get a seat at the table in any case.

in the past some of our planning consultants for major projects have been hatchet job yes-men for our pols. this kind of budget could get a very good, objective, national planning firm to seriously address issues. any plan they come up with will also have to be combined with input from other interest groups (though with less fanfare) and then, if it is going to matter at all, go through public comment at the plan commission and city council.

posted by enjoyeverysandwich on May 29, 2015 at 09:26:34 am     #   1 person liked this

The major difference between all those that were listed and this current group is who spawned them. Now, I'm not fully up to speed on this new group, but it was pitched to me by one of those involved in it a few months back, and as he laid it out, this is basically a group of the major business leaders in downtown getting together and saying "here's where we see downtown going, and here's how we need to get there." The single biggest factor being that this group is the actual business leaders, not just mid-level representatives showing their faces, as has been common with most of the other organizations.

posted by Johio83 on May 29, 2015 at 11:32:31 am     #  

In 2004, the port authority paid a few hundred thousand dollars to the Washington firm of Hammer, Siler, George to study Lucas County's economic development agencies and develop a plan to coordinate their efforts.

HSG determined that the Lucas County Improvement Corporation -- a nearly dormant agency that served mostly to serve as a rubber stamp for state and federal business loans issued by the port authority -- had the most to offer as an agency to serve as a county coordinator. The study went on to list specific roles for the port authority, the city of Toledo, each suburban ED department, the Regional Growth Partnership, Lucas County, TMACOG, and others.

When the study results were issued, each agency immediately began protecting its turf. Economic Development is all about turf.

I've been part of many similar studies. Branding the region (Lake Erie West) went nowhere. Branding the city went nowhere. This effort will go nowhere. I'm not normally so cynical, but having participated in processes like these, I know where it is headed.

posted by MemyselfandI on May 29, 2015 at 12:33:34 pm     #  

But that's largely the point I'm trying to make as to why this is different. All of these examples people are giving are governmental or quasi governmental agencies that were put together. This one was initiated by the prominent businesses in downtown to take the steps they feel need to be taken. In other words, it's the doers saying what needs to be done, not those on the sidelines telling others what needs to be done.

posted by Johio83 on May 29, 2015 at 12:37:48 pm     #  

Johio83 posted at 12:37:48 PM on May 29, 2015:

But that's largely the point I'm trying to make as to why this is different. All of these examples people are giving are governmental or quasi governmental agencies that were put together. This one was initiated by the prominent businesses in downtown to take the steps they feel need to be taken. In other words, it's the doers saying what needs to be done, not those on the sidelines telling others what needs to be done.

Ah, but will they be able to overcome the roadblocks planted in their path(s) by the turf protectors and the idiot politicians that run (into the ground) this region?

As mentioned in a previous thread, just ask the Treece boys what happens to those who dare to think outside the box in the Fiefdom of Lucas County.

posted by Foodie on May 29, 2015 at 12:53:02 pm     #   2 people liked this

Comparing the Treece's pursuit of the airport to the heads of ProMedica, OC, et al, taking the charge in downtown's redevelopment is... I mean, really. I don't think I even need to finish that statement.

posted by Johio83 on May 29, 2015 at 12:56:31 pm     #   1 person liked this

Not all facts need to be a direct comparison to be relevant.

Foodies point about the larger issues presenting challenges and roadblocks is well taken in any discussion about Toledo development. Even the discussions in which one mega business fed at the taxpayer trough is controlling the ball. Because the ProMedica thing is a recent exception to a generations-long rule.

posted by justread on May 29, 2015 at 01:03:14 pm     #   3 people liked this

I think its obvious who has the power and that is Promedica. They got everything they wanted from city council - parking garage, waterfront property, payroll tax kickback and on and on.

Now will this go anywhere.... we will see. But successful CEO's don't have time to waste if it doesn't. Promedica is investing 60 million downtown so they have a big interest in its success. The fact alone that they are involved is encouraging. Color me cautiously optimistic based on the board members involved.

posted by Xbuckeyex on May 29, 2015 at 01:04:53 pm     #  

"Didn't one just spend upwards of $800k or so for the whole "It Matterrs Where You Make It" or whatnot? Where did that help?"

for whatever it's worth... i'm not sure how much they actually spent on that, but the numbers listed for that project, covered many years and at least two rounds of rebranding. The first one, being quite awful.

the "it matters where you make it" campaign was a small portion of the overall spend, and while currently seemingly dead in the water... is supposed to have another push at some point.

posted by upso on May 29, 2015 at 01:05:34 pm     #   1 person liked this

I don't see it as a relavent comparison. A family in a financial firm saying they can run an airport, vs the heads of the leading corporations in downtown saying they want to lead downtown's redevelopment. How is that a comparison at all?

posted by Johio83 on May 29, 2015 at 01:06:39 pm     #  

For what it's worth, I am extremely pro-business involvement in town, and anti-government involvement anywhere the private sector can do it better. And even then, I would have given a firm "no" to the Treece family taking control of the airport. Just because someone can run a small business does not qualify them to run an airport. It blows my mind that people supported their position. If they were running a transportation logistics company, that would be different.

posted by Johio83 on May 29, 2015 at 01:11:19 pm     #   1 person liked this

Johio83 posted at 01:06:39 PM on May 29, 2015:

I don't see it as a relavent comparison. A family in a financial firm saying they can run an airport, vs the heads of the leading corporations in downtown saying they want to lead downtown's redevelopment. How is that a comparison at all?

It is an alternate, more often seen example. It is not a comparison. Many people can think about different facts without the facts needing to be a comparison or a polar opposition. This may be one of those cases.

The Treece case, in which independent financial experts who happen to have a chit ton of air industry knowledge did have an idea of interest but were summarily dismissed is not a comparison to ProMedica, which has grown into a monster at the public trough doing whatever they want with the public and the FTC being summarily dismissed.

posted by justread on May 29, 2015 at 01:41:07 pm     #  

Johio83 posted at 01:06:39 PM on May 29, 2015:

I don't see it as a relavent comparison. A family in a financial firm saying they can run an airport, vs the heads of the leading corporations in downtown saying they want to lead downtown's redevelopment. How is that a comparison at all?

I'm not comparing the projects/ideas presented by either party. The point is that the lunkheads in power in this county who are repeatedly elected and re-elected by other lunkheads are not about to give up a square inch of "their" turf or power - to anyone.

Good grief - how long will it take for people to ever understand this about Toledo/Lucas County? At the beginning of the nearly 36 years that I have been here now, I was also optimistic about this region's future. That was before I was fully aware of the politics of this area - and who the puppet masters truly are. While there have been some good and some bad things happen in those 36 years, the politics haven't changed; the electorate has never gotten a clue and I don't expect either will change in my lifetime.

posted by Foodie on May 29, 2015 at 01:43:50 pm     #   3 people liked this

It blows my mind that people don't understand how connected in the aviation industry the Treece's are.

And that people don't understand that Dock is an expert and resource for the aviation industry, even being interviewed about the Germanwings pilot, because Dock is rated to fly the same commercial jet in the accident.

Builds business. Knows airport operators all over the country. Knows a network of pilots and related businesses. 2000 hours of flight time. (That's 83 full 24 hour days in the air). 30 years of aviation. The only jet rated private pilot in the area. Jet aircraft owner.

Only in Toledo can armchair quarterbacks consider him an inappropriate voice at the table for any plan to make aviation work better here.

posted by justread on May 29, 2015 at 01:56:30 pm     #   4 people liked this

Johio83 posted at 01:11:19 PM on May 29, 2015:

For what it's worth, I am extremely pro-business involvement in town, and anti-government involvement anywhere the private sector can do it better. And even then, I would have given a firm "no" to the Treece family taking control of the airport. Just because someone can run a small business does not qualify them to run an airport. It blows my mind that people supported their position. If they were running a transportation logistics company, that would be different.

So, do you suppose that every CEO that is hired is an "expert" in the business of the company who's board of directors hired him or her?

How about the President? Do we elect only Presidents who are expert economists, military commanders, etc.?

Most successful CEO's - well, the humble ones anyway - will tell you that they owe their success to the fact that they are smart enough to surround themselves with people who are experts in the fields of interest to the business.

"and anti-government involvement anywhere the private sector can do it better."

Me too. I subscribe to the Dave Bing (former Detroit mayor) philosophy: "If the service can be found in the phone book, the city has no business providing it."

But that wouldn't sit well with the puppet masters would it?

posted by Foodie on May 29, 2015 at 02:01:01 pm     #  

There are a bunch of Dock Treeces in the world. He's just a recent local example. Maybe we should stop underestimating them. Maybe we'd have a greater diversity of representation. Maybe we'd have greater diversity of industry.

Instead we marginalize successful creative people with new ideas before they dare challenge the status quo.

posted by justread on May 29, 2015 at 02:05:06 pm     #   2 people liked this

At the moment, the 22nd Century Committee seems to be comprised of mostly business people.

And at the moment, this committee is focused strictly on downtown Toledo, which, I'm guessing, is an area of maybe two square miles in a city that is about 88 square miles in size.

It's not a Toledo thing. It's a narrowly-focused downtown Toledo idea. And that's fine.

It's fine as long as our tax dollars are not disproportionally used on downtown Toledo. You can't have a real city when a tiny portion looks fine and the rest is decaying.

Past ideas, initiatives, plans, committees, orgs, studies, etc. that went nowhere focused on various areas: downtown Toledo, all of Toledo, Lucas County, and the region.

Maybe this new narrowly-focused plan can ignite business owners and leaders in other parts of Toledo to form their own committees to improve their sections of Toledo.

22nd Century Central Toledo Committee. Well, a new name will be needed. I think that some orgs already exist that focus on say North Toledo or South Toledo.

Hopefully, the 22nd CC stays privately funded because if Toledo government cannot afford to repair our roads, then it does not need to involve itself in anything else.

As long as the politicians stay out of the way, then the 22nd CC idea may have a shot.

But from an entertainment perspective, this is why it would be great to see Carty get elected mayor. Monkey wrench in functioning gears.

22nd Century Committee vs 22nd-Floor. Game on. That's worthy of pay-per-view.

posted by jr on May 29, 2015 at 02:13:36 pm     #  

All I'm saying with the Treece example is that an airport is an extremely large undertaking. Probably the second largest piece of Toledo you could operate, after the sea port.

Anyway, what are your problems with having a collective of downtown businesses that have the biggest voice of where downtown's development will go?

posted by Johio83 on May 29, 2015 at 02:15:48 pm     #   1 person liked this

I thought that politicians and unions were going to be equal partners on this Committee?

posted by shamrock44 on May 29, 2015 at 02:37:52 pm     #  

I havent heard of or seen anything about unions being involved in this. And government would have to be involved in some degree, since they're the only ones who can dictate land use.

posted by Johio83 on May 29, 2015 at 02:47:03 pm     #  

Johio83 posted at 02:15:48 PM on May 29, 2015:

All I'm saying with the Treece example is that an airport is an extremely large undertaking. Probably the second largest piece of Toledo you could operate, after the sea port.

Anyway, what are your problems with having a collective of downtown businesses that have the biggest voice of where downtown's development will go?

If you are asking me, let me be perfectly clear: I have NO problem whatsoever "with having a collective of downtown businesses that have the biggest voice of where downtown's development will go?"

And, I have no idea how you would have deduced that from any of my comments.

The ONLY thing the aforementioned lunkheads give a rat's rump about is remaining in positions of power by pleasing their puppet masters - at the expense of the rest of us. Hell, I'd take almost ANY business person being in charge of development as opposed to ANY current, lying, jackass politician this area has to offer.

posted by Foodie on May 29, 2015 at 02:51:32 pm     #  

(Just to clarify that, Foodie, that part wasn't directed at you specifically, but the conversation en masse. Hard to have conversations on the internet that don't spiral into confusion over which comment is meant for which poster)

posted by Johio83 on May 29, 2015 at 02:54:35 pm     #  

And, I have no idea how you would have deduced that from any of my comments

ditto.

I represent the people who have chosen to serve in business because politics didn't present an appropriately level field of play. And of course we know a hell of a lot more about how to get things done than politicians. The problem is that the folks in the group will be sitting in paid seats, and that's not good. Anybody have a list of the star chamber in question?

posted by justread on May 29, 2015 at 03:01:38 pm     #  

I think everyone on this board agrees that Toledo has serious problems with our elected officials, and I think that's why I like this idea so much. This is purely my own interpretation of things, but this committee seems to me to be the downtown businesses saying to the local government, "let us handle downtown."

posted by Johio83 on May 29, 2015 at 03:06:19 pm     #  

22nd Century Organization Toledo Zoo is: (Pick one)

A) A prominent private downtown business.
B) A quasi-charity funded by taxpayer dollars because the business plan doesn't work any other way.

posted by justread on May 29, 2015 at 03:14:37 pm     #  

I'm all for it Johio. We'd all be better off. But it will be up to us to force the politicians to keep their hands off.

I don't see that happening.

And, for the record, Toledo has a more serious problem with the electorate who elects the elected officials. How do we fix that?

posted by Foodie on May 29, 2015 at 03:19:12 pm     #  

How do we fix that?

Two men and a truck, unfortunately. Citizens don't get representation here. Labor organizations do.

posted by justread on May 29, 2015 at 03:24:14 pm     #   3 people liked this

After the last mayoral election, I think all I'd have to say is that the unions just do a better job of participating. Map the areas of strongest union employment, and you'll see how strongly Collins was favored. When only a quarter of the people spoke up, it's hard to get mad at the unions supporters for being so vocal. How do you get the rest to care enough to participate? I haven't the slightest.

posted by Johio83 on May 29, 2015 at 03:30:17 pm     #  

justread posted at 03:14:37 PM on May 29, 2015:

22nd Century Organization Toledo Zoo is: (Pick one)

A) A prominent private downtown business.
B) A quasi-charity funded by taxpayer dollars because the business plan doesn't work any other way.

Yeah, the Toledo Zoo's inclusion seemed odd to me too, since the zoo is not located downtown, and the zoo is partially funded by a county-wide property tax.

And that damn science center org better not be involved either even though it is located downtown.

Those orgs that charge admission fees and offer memberships should not be taking property tax money. But since they do because of "caring" voters, then they should be disqualified from a development committee that is allegedly led by private business.

The zoo's inclusion makes the 22nc CC seem suspicious and illegitimate.

posted by jr on May 29, 2015 at 04:01:01 pm     #   2 people liked this

Can we get some input from the 22nd Century Committee in regard to the One Government Center situation? We need some feedback from prominent private downtown businesses. Seems like a sweet deal. We get the building, slap a little caulk on it and commence raking in as much as $100,000 per year after expenses, if everybody pays their rent. (Unlike us. We haven't paid in years.) Too bad they don't have two. That would double our profits.
Not to mention, we'd have the lock on it should Fiat ever express an interest.

posted by justread on Jun 03, 2015 at 11:27:59 am     #   5 people liked this

So, wait... am I completely misunderstanding this here, or is the situation essentially:

A) find a way to pay the State of Ohio the owed $3.1M
or
B) buy the building from the State of Ohio for $1.00

posted by Johio83 on Jun 03, 2015 at 11:58:57 am     #  

I think it's C) Buy the building, the debts, the deferred maintenance and the accounts receivable for $1.00 and hope it all washes to the positive for the city, even though the state is upside down on it.

posted by justread on Jun 03, 2015 at 12:03:19 pm     #  

Hopefully, the High Level Bridge repairs are not based upon similar math principles.

posted by jr on Jun 03, 2015 at 12:10:13 pm     #  

this is all really really really weird

posted by upso on Jun 03, 2015 at 12:32:47 pm     #   2 people liked this

upso posted at 12:32:47 PM on Jun 03, 2015:

this is all really really really weird

Sounds like a good t-shirt design idea.

posted by jr on Jun 03, 2015 at 12:40:40 pm     #  

And just in time for the OWE Festival!

"Look honey, more Toledo tshirts to show our pride! Should we get "You Will Do Better In Toledo," or "Toledo - This Is All Really Really Really Weird"

posted by Johio83 on Jun 03, 2015 at 12:46:01 pm     #  

jr posted at 12:10:13 PM on Jun 03, 2015:

Hopefully, the High Level Bridge repairs are not based upon similar math principles.

No. But the DiSalle Bridge, on the other hand...

posted by justread on Jun 03, 2015 at 01:01:47 pm     #  

i wonder if i can get jupmode to print these for the weekend?

posted by upso on Jun 03, 2015 at 01:05:56 pm     #   4 people liked this

justread posted at 12:03:19 PM on Jun 03, 2015:

I think it's C) Buy the building, the debts, the deferred maintenance and the accounts receivable for $1.00 and hope it all washes to the positive for the city, even though the state is upside down on it.

Why, this "deal" is every politicians wet dream. Yet another opportunity to pi$$ away the taxpayer's $$ to the benefit of said politicians. The possibilities are endless: with the state out of the picture, local bought and paid for politicians would be free to connive - er, negotiate sweet rent deals for their largest campaign contributors constituents; hand out bloated, overpriced maintenance and repair contracts to their union dance partners; dole out free taxpayer supplied office space to their favorite "charities" and "non-profits" and hundreds of other ways I can't even think of that would all inure to the benefit of our vaunted elected officials with the blessing of those who elected them I might add.

posted by Foodie on Jun 03, 2015 at 01:28:24 pm     #  

The idea of walking around and seeing someone wearing a t-shirt referencing a Toledo Talk in joke... this feels like reddit all of a sudden.

posted by Johio83 on Jun 03, 2015 at 01:36:10 pm     #  

And this "deal" is something that really should piss the rest of the state of Ohio tax base off. That's a $3.1M shortfall that everyone else's taxes have to stretch to make up for.

posted by Johio83 on Jun 03, 2015 at 01:38:03 pm     #  

"But the DiSalle Bridge, on the other hand..."

That will be something in a few years. Four years to replace that bridge.

-

"i wonder if i can get jupmode to print these for the weekend?"

Sold. The word "all" combined with the three "reallys" make it work. Leave off the word "Toledo" if it's too negative.

posted by jr on Jun 03, 2015 at 02:18:52 pm     #  

Everyone else is doing their "Keep ______ Weird" campaigns. This is like THREE TIMES better than that!

posted by Johio83 on Jun 03, 2015 at 02:38:35 pm     #  

Johio83 posted at 01:38:03 PM on Jun 03, 2015:

And this "deal" is something that really should piss the rest of the state of Ohio tax base off. That's a $3.1M shortfall that everyone else's taxes have to stretch to make up for.

Yeah, but they are off the hook for "at least" $5.4 million in window sealant, HVAC, and other deferred maintenance.

So, in exchange for forgoing $3.1 million in rent from Toledo since 2013, they probably save $6 million. That's a net of $3 million in "savings."

Us geniuses, on the other hand, trade $3.1 million in short term debt for $6 million worth of problems right now, and decades of losses. It's perfect for us. Do you know how many abandoned hotels we would have to buy and then tear down to lose money at this rate? This my friend, is progress.

posted by justread on Jun 03, 2015 at 02:44:07 pm     #   4 people liked this

justread posted at 02:44:07 PM on Jun 03, 2015:
Johio83 posted at 01:38:03 PM on Jun 03, 2015:

And this "deal" is something that really should piss the rest of the state of Ohio tax base off. That's a $3.1M shortfall that everyone else's taxes have to stretch to make up for.

Yeah, but they are off the hook for "at least" $5.4 million in window sealant, HVAC, and other deferred maintenance.

So, in exchange for forgoing $3.1 million in rent from Toledo since 2013, they probably save $6 million. That's a net of $3 million in "savings."

Us geniuses, on the other hand, trade $3.1 million in short term debt for $6 million worth of problems right now, and decades of losses. It's perfect for us. Do you know how many abandoned hotels we would have to buy and then tear down to lose money at this rate? This my friend, is progress.

This is so how a politician thinks its frightening. Even more stupid is that the B team will use it against the A team that is now in office, even though the B team would have done the same thing if it was currently in office. Between recycling the same old people or their relatives it would be nice for the average voter to find some new faces to stick into office. Does the city have term limits for all elected positions?

posted by MIJeff on Jun 03, 2015 at 04:04:58 pm     #  

The Blade reported today that the Toledo Clowncil has approved giving $25k to the 22nd Century Committee. Nevermind that it doesn't come up for a vote until tomorrow, the 22nd--we all know what the outcome is going to be anyway, right?

Toledo City Council has approved contributing $25,000 to the 22nd Century Committee, though councilmen asked for information on the group.

The committee, a public-private partnership with 27 members was launched in May to capitalize on renewed interest in downtown because of construction projects, including ProMedica’s new headquarters and the Hensville entertainment district at Fifth Third Field.

http://www.toledoblade.com/local/2015/12/21/City-Council-OKs-25K-for-new-committee.html

When this was first announced in May, the Blade wrote:
One of the first short-term goals of the committee is to raise about $100,000 in private donations to hire a consultant to oversee the process of creating a master plan, Mr. Oostra said.

“We haven’t asked people for funding yet, but we’ll ask a number of community citizens and community companies to help support our initiative,” he said.

Funny how that $100,000 in private donations now entails asking the taxpayers to pony up $25,000. It sort of reminds me how Randy "Mr. Urbanism" Oostra first said they might need parking but it would be underground, and roughly 2 months later when Robin Whitney was hired by ProMedica, she stated that one of her first projects would be to build a garage "on" Promenade Park. Am I detecting a pattern here with Mr. Oostra?

posted by Bandito on Dec 21, 2015 at 08:10:32 pm     #  

http://tbvarnish.cloudapp.net/local/2015/12/18/Greyhound-Subway-move-in-with-Amtrak.html

And 35g from the Porter Authority.........let me guess Lucas County is next....

posted by In_vin_veritas on Dec 21, 2015 at 08:50:38 pm     #  

*Port

posted by In_vin_veritas on Dec 21, 2015 at 08:51:23 pm     #  

That's really odd - the article says the Pythian is owned by the land bank again. I thought it was picked up by the same guys that own the Hylant and a bunch of other properties. Had a conversation probably a year ago with one of the guys that worked for that development group and was working in the building to add locks to doors and such.

Something changed, apparently.

posted by endcycle on Dec 22, 2015 at 11:59:18 am     #  

I was told that Dave Ball (owner of the Hylant Building, Edison Plaza, etc) was brought on to "help them maintain things." I have absolutely no idea what that actually means.

posted by Johio83 on Dec 22, 2015 at 12:35:42 pm     #  

So, my question in another thread about the use of taxpayer $$ funding this group turns out to be premature but relevant.

Funny how things work (and don't work) in Lucas County.......

posted by Foodie on Dec 23, 2015 at 02:03:51 pm     #  

I'm very against public money being used where it doesn't need to be used. See my comments on the recent news of the county now owning the Key Bank building next to Huntington Arena.

However, as far as the urban study for the city's downtown master plan is concerned, I don't have a problem with it. Master plans are a necessary part of responsible growth and development in any city, and are traditionally paid for by the city itself. The fact that the private sector is covering the majority of the bill for this is pretty unusual, and pretty awesome.

posted by Johio83 on Dec 23, 2015 at 02:36:15 pm     #   1 person liked this

"Master plans are a necessary part of responsible growth and development in any city"

I couldn't agree with you more - on this part of your comment. However, in case you haven't noticed, Toledo has never really had a master plan for anything - with the possible exception of how to keep recycling the same old few party hacks - and certainly could never be accused of being responsible with taxpayer $$.

I hope this coalition bears fruit. 35 years of watching Lucas County politics play out dictates otherwise.

posted by Foodie on Dec 23, 2015 at 04:08:55 pm     #