Toledo Talk

A very dubious Mayoral Forum

"Equality" Toledo, representing the privileged special snowflakes of Toledo, are hosting a Mayoral Forum on LGBT Issues on Tuesday, Oct 13 at UT.

https://www.facebook.com/events/451682161682136/

What hubris. Toledo has some serious problems to overcome and issues to deal with--all of which are more important to the majority of Toledoans than advancing the political agenda of a minority.

"Not that there's anything wrong with that..."

created by Bandito on Oct 07, 2015 at 09:25:05 pm     Local-Politics     Comments: 31

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Comments ... #

I think the creation of this thread legitimizes the need for the mayoral forum.

posted by JohnnyMac on Oct 07, 2015 at 09:29:29 pm     #   10 people liked this

This fuckin guy. Cue the all in the family theme for Archie "Bandito" Bunker.

posted by TrilbyGuy on Oct 07, 2015 at 09:33:02 pm     #   11 people liked this

Oh? What actual "issues" are facing the LGBT community in Toledo that are within the legitimate province of the government, and more specifically, the mayor?

Please be specific.

posted by Bandito on Oct 07, 2015 at 09:41:38 pm     #   1 person liked this

A member of Toledo's LGBT community can answer better than I can. My best guess would be bigoted assholes who believe the LGBT community doesn't have issues that a mayor could help with, would be one of the issues.

posted by TrilbyGuy on Oct 07, 2015 at 10:04:46 pm     #   11 people liked this

I don't think politicians should cater (and maybe that's the wrong word) to any group whether that's pro-marijuana, pro-choice, pro-life, lgbt, christian organizations and on and on. That's where I lose interest. Your job is to improve the economy, balance the budget, create a surplus, provide adequate safety, bring jobs to the region, fix roads, etc.

However, if candidates want to go and have a debate that a group hosts I have no problem with it.

posted by Xbuckeyex on Oct 07, 2015 at 10:18:06 pm     #   1 person liked this

hey Bandito, do you take issue with this one too? https://www.facebook.com/events/911604098910909/

posted by nits on Oct 07, 2015 at 10:25:49 pm     #   3 people liked this

Bandito posted at 10:41:38 PM on Oct 07, 2015:

Oh? What actual "issues" are facing the LGBT community in Toledo that are within the legitimate province of the government, and more specifically, the mayor?

Please be specific.

Maybe attend the forum, and listen. There are 6 candidates that found it important enough. Ah, never mind, you won't attend...

For your specific request, here is what Equality Toledo considers to be the 3 important issues at the moment.

Safe Schools-The Safe Schools Project strives, through education and advocacy, to create a culture of safety that will make Ohio schools free from harassment, bullying and other forms of violence against any student or group of students.

Welcoming places of worship-Surprisingly, not all religious organizations accept openly LGBT into their congregation. equality Toledo is working towards greater acceptance within these places of worship.

Equality@work Project-The Equality@Work Project educates area businesses and individuals and advocates for all employers in Toledo and the surrounding geographical area to implement full and inclusive LGBT non-discrimination and non-harassment policies and practices in their workplaces.

While these are most certainly not issues that are important to you, social justice is a competent of of all political races. Awareness by the candidates can help to accelerate their causes, even if no money goes towards those causes.

It's never up to someone outside of any ostracized group, to determine what is fair. Either walk a mile in their shoes or have some empathy. Neither will cost you a penny.

posted by ahmahler on Oct 07, 2015 at 10:32:46 pm     #   8 people liked this

While these are most certainly not issues that are important to you, social justice is a competent of of all political races.

Clearly-I'm not competent. That was supposed to say component of all political races....

How about an "edit" button JR?

posted by ahmahler on Oct 07, 2015 at 10:39:28 pm     #  

I suspect they couldn't answer any better than you did (or didn't).

Nevertheless, your twisted lefto-fascist PC logic tells you that even though you yourself can't imagine what issues they have that fall within the legitimate powers of the municipal government and the mayor, I'm a bigoted asshole for questioning the legitimacy of these alleged (and unidentified) "issues" of a special interest group being raised as a campaign issue.

I'm not aware of any of the candidates having mentioned the alleged issues of the LGBT community in their platforms. They all seem to have other priorities, and rightfully so--Toledo has bigger issues to deal with. Nor have I seen any indication that LGBT issues are something the broader electorate is concerned about.

And remember, the only true bigots are those who so routinely employ the word "bigot."

posted by Bandito on Oct 07, 2015 at 10:40:48 pm     #   1 person liked this

Sorry, my last post at 11:40:48 PM was in reponse to trilbyguy, not to any subsequent posts.
A member of Toledo's LGBT community can answer better than I can. My best guess would be bigoted assholes who believe the LGBT community doesn't have issues that a mayor could help with, would be one of the issues.

! posted by TrilbyGuy on Oct 07, 2015 at 11:04:46 pm

posted by Bandito on Oct 07, 2015 at 10:47:52 pm     #  

hey Bandito, do you take issue with this one too? https://www.facebook.com/events/911604098910909/

! posted by nits on Oct 07, 2015 at 11:25:49 pm # + 1 person liked this

Not in principle by any means. By and large, the police, generally speaking, have become militarized and in many cases out of control. But the blacklivesmatter people err in claiming that it's just about blacks. It's not--it's much bigger and broader than that.

posted by Bandito on Oct 07, 2015 at 11:09:17 pm     #  

The mayor, inevitably has power and influence. The issues that the LGBT community face, need allies with both to legitimize their issues. Since we don't have a City Manager government (at the moment), the Mayor, along with administrative duties, also has the burden of being a figure head. If that person decides these issues are important to them, they can help advance the agenda with a quick phone call or sit down over a cup of coffee. This is how politics is done. Are any of these issues within their day to day job? Well, they choose the law director, the youth commissioner, there's a department for affirmative action that also falls under the Mayor's responsibilities. Not to mention Community Relations. So, I guess the issues would land on the Mayors desk via departments that he/ she staff's and is charge of. Since we don't know the agenda of the meeting, we can only speculate on the exact issues. And until there is an LGBT compliance commission (unlikely), those watchdog duties will need to be absorbed by other departments.

Short answer-If the mayor puts their weight behind these issues, perhaps they won't ever need to deal with anything of a future legal nature. It's not as tangible as a pothole or an underfunded jail, but it's something-think of it as a free beautification project.

BTW-I'm more of a Lefto-Libertarian than a Lefto-Fascist, but I get your intent.

posted by ahmahler on Oct 07, 2015 at 11:11:41 pm     #   5 people liked this

"Welcoming places of worship-Surprisingly, not all religious organizations accept openly LGBT into their congregation. equality Toledo is working towards greater acceptance within these places of worship."

Since when is various religious objection to LGBT stuff "surprising?"

posted by oldhometown on Oct 08, 2015 at 12:35:48 am     #   6 people liked this

As for the broader topic:

1.) Organization makes invitation

2.) Candidates accept/decline invitation

3.) Event does/does not take place

Obviously, many candidates see value in appearing and talking about the issues that pertain to this community. I'm failing to see what the big deal is.

The roads will still be shit and bureaucrats will still be just as incompetent whether this event takes place or not.

posted by oldhometown on Oct 08, 2015 at 12:38:31 am     #   2 people liked this

oldhometown posted at 01:35:48 AM on Oct 08, 2015:

"Welcoming places of worship-Surprisingly, not all religious organizations accept openly LGBT into their congregation. equality Toledo is working towards greater acceptance within these places of worship."

Since when is various religious objection to LGBT stuff "surprising?"

Or a matter for government.

posted by justread on Oct 08, 2015 at 05:40:14 am     #   3 people liked this

This thread is sure going /p/ quickly.

posted by historymike on Oct 08, 2015 at 05:57:53 am     #  

And remember, the only true bigots are those who so routinely employ the word "bigot."

What does it mean when they use it twice in the same sentence?

posted by justread on Oct 08, 2015 at 06:25:05 am     #   9 people liked this

I agree with the intersection of two of the three big issues and legislation. Work and school need to be protected areas for all.

But I think the area of faith and worship needs to be organic. Let's say I'm gay. Wouldn't I find a church that truly accepts me as me? Or would I be required to go "fix" all the churches that don't accept me because of their beliefs? Hell, I left a church for less reasons than that. But still, an issue of "fit." I didn't feel obliged to "fix" them. As much as they are way of base to suggest that those who aren't like them can and must be "fixed."

I don't think I want churches to be forced to all think the same, whether I agree with what one church espouses or I don't. My gay sibling had no problem finding a church that felt like home. No, it wasn't the church we grew up in.

posted by justread on Oct 08, 2015 at 06:33:37 am     #   8 people liked this

@justread:
"Or would I be required to go "fix" all the churches that don't accept me because of their beliefs?"

And, you nailed it right there. The special interest groups - particularly those on the left, are NEVER satisfied or accept the fact that people can have different beliefs than they do. Nope, by God, you'll either accept them and change your ways or they will try to shut you down, shut you up, whatever the case may be. Those who claim tolerance of all are, quite simply the most intolerant of all. They're completely tolerant - as long as you agree with them. The minute you don't, there will be hell to pay.

posted by Foodie on Oct 08, 2015 at 06:47:30 am     #   7 people liked this

Yeah, I'm staying the fuck out of this.

posted by endcycle on Oct 08, 2015 at 06:57:58 am     #   6 people liked this

May gay friends and family have no interested in showing up at a church where they aren't welcome, but also don't want the church showing up at court house to keep them from getting married either.

posted by SensorG on Oct 08, 2015 at 07:14:07 am     #   11 people liked this

Like endcycle's and Foodie's post the best. Suspect the Deity would say you' ve all missed the mark.

posted by Mariner on Oct 08, 2015 at 07:34:15 am     #   1 person liked this

okay, I'm weighing in a bit:

At this point, I'm 90% sure Bandito is trolling.

The other 10% is sure he has an Ayn Rand poster above his bed on one wall and a Don't Tread On Me flag (hand made in china) on the other wall. He also loves 4chan and thought Reddit sold out when a woman was in charge.

Regardless of which it is, it's completely pointless to engage him, so I won't.

Have a nice day all!

posted by endcycle on Oct 08, 2015 at 07:52:04 am     #   6 people liked this

justread posted at 07:33:37 AM on Oct 08, 2015:

I agree with the intersection of two of the three big issues and legislation. Work and school need to be protected areas for all.

But I think the area of faith and worship needs to be organic. Let's say I'm gay. Wouldn't I find a church that truly accepts me as me? Or would I be required to go "fix" all the churches that don't accept me because of their beliefs? Hell, I left a church for less reasons than that. But still, an issue of "fit." I didn't feel obliged to "fix" them. As much as they are way of base to suggest that those who aren't like them can and must be "fixed."

I don't think I want churches to be forced to all think the same, whether I agree with what one church espouses or I don't. My gay sibling had no problem finding a church that felt like home. No, it wasn't the church we grew up in.

Justread-I totally get this, and religion is certainly something, that in my view, mostly gets to do what they want, regardless of the perceived validity. Article 1 and all of that. It's a pillar of our constitution. On their end though, they are supposed to stay out of government, which they can't seem to not do. Sorry-tangent.

To the point of the 3 issues-those are their 3 key awareness issues they're dealing with right now. I don't expect the religious piece of it will creep into a Mayoral Forum, although I could be wrong. That just feels like an ongoing education portion. I would agree that it's not the Mayor's nor really anyone's job to tell a religion how to operate, and i don't think they're asking for that. i hope I didn't misrepresent them there.

At this point, I'm 90% sure Bandito is trolling.

Oh, totally. However, he brings up an interesting point that had me consider exactly how I feel. His message, while clumsy and icky, is nonetheless worth discussing and vetting. What IS the role of government in Social Issues. Those of us on the left haven't always been articulate about how we feel is the best may to help move society forward (you know, accepting everyone, equality, etc). The right (or the "libertarians") have been much more black and white about the issue and have therefore, more successfully argued in favor of Government not getting involved. I think it sheds light on the perception of bureaucrat vs. elected leader. After much thought, I do very much believe that LGBT issues fall on local politics, maybe not to legislate at the moment, but to be aware of and prepared for any possible future issue. All politics is local, just because a nationally controversial issue hasn't hit this city (LGBT) doesn't mean we're immune to having to deal with one in the future. We've actually had a few incidents that flared up a bit, including the person that was jumped and beaten the crap out of last year if I'm recalling correctly . A lot of information and a little sensitivity could help our future and current leaders, you know, lead.

posted by ahmahler on Oct 08, 2015 at 08:10:07 am     #  

help move society forward

Those four words are fascinating in their own right.

posted by justread on Oct 08, 2015 at 08:40:23 am     #   2 people liked this

the person that was jumped and beaten the crap out of last year

I hope to hell that is already very, very illegal.

posted by justread on Oct 08, 2015 at 08:41:59 am     #   2 people liked this

okay, I'm weighing in a bit:

At this point, I'm 90% sure Bandito is trolling.

The other 10% is sure he has an Ayn Rand poster above his bed on one wall and a Don't Tread On Me flag (hand made in china) on the other wall. He also loves 4chan and thought Reddit sold out when a woman was in charge.

Regardless of which it is, it's completely pointless to engage him, so I won't.

Have a nice day all!

! posted by endcycle on Oct 08, 2015 at 08:52:04 am # + 4 people liked this

First, I'm not sure what "trolling" is, though I suspect you are just employing an empty ad hominem slur-label that has even less intellectual content than "bigot."

Secondly, since you say that you won't engage me in argument, after hurling your slurs, what comes to my mind is "Parthian shot." Look it up.

posted by Bandito on Oct 08, 2015 at 10:44:32 pm     #  

As for the broader topic:

1.) Organization makes invitation

2.) Candidates accept/decline invitation

3.) Event does/does not take place

Obviously, many candidates see value in appearing and talking about the issues that pertain to this community. I'm failing to see what the big deal is.

The roads will still be shit and bureaucrats will still be just as incompetent whether this event takes place or not.

! posted by oldhometown on Oct 08, 2015 at 01:38:31 am # + 2 people liked this

That's the way it should work. But when you add the PC element, it falls apart. No candidate could dare--DARE!!--decline to attend this panel. If they were to have done so, they would have been pilloried.

posted by Bandito on Oct 08, 2015 at 10:59:34 pm     #  

Bandito posted at 11:44:32 PM on Oct 08, 2015:
okay, I'm weighing in a bit:

At this point, I'm 90% sure Bandito is trolling.

The other 10% is sure he has an Ayn Rand poster above his bed on one wall and a Don't Tread On Me flag (hand made in china) on the other wall. He also loves 4chan and thought Reddit sold out when a woman was in charge.

Regardless of which it is, it's completely pointless to engage him, so I won't.

Have a nice day all!

! posted by endcycle on Oct 08, 2015 at 08:52:04 am # + 4 people liked this

First, I'm not sure what "trolling" is, though I suspect you are just employing an empty ad hominem slur-label that has even less intellectual content than "bigot."

Secondly, since you say that you won't engage me in argument, after hurling your slurs, what comes to my mind is "Parthian shot." Look it up.

Speaking of "look it up," trolling is an internet post made with knowledge and intent that it will cause a reaction. Unlike the bridge troll they are often confused with, a true troll simply baits the water and waits for the show to begin. They rarely add anything that is not patently inflammatory, whether they hide their true troll in a Pollyanna-like faux ignorance of what they are doing.

Rather than an empty ad hominem attack, or a "slur-label," "troll" in this case is used as an observation.

Whether the observation is correct comes down to whether you are pretending to be an extremist, or whether you are an authentic extremist.

posted by justread on Oct 09, 2015 at 05:24:55 am     #   3 people liked this

Good morning.
"Speaking of "look it up," trolling is an internet post made with knowledge and intent that it will cause a reaction."

If this is true everyone who post new topics on here is trolling, no?

posted by reggie on Oct 09, 2015 at 05:57:48 am     #  

Some people only want to cause a discussion.

You know what I mean by reaction.
I suppose I should have said "get people fired up for fun."

And yes, I suppose we are all trolls. Original sin and all that.

posted by justread on Oct 09, 2015 at 06:08:04 am     #   1 person liked this