Toledo Talk

Toledo Air Service Discussion

Going to do a blanket discussion thread for air service out of the area.

A new route will be announced tomorrow from Toledo Express. Based on sources this will be a new city operated by Allegiant Air. Currently the most likely contenders will be either Myrtle Beach, Las Vegas, or Baltimore.

Service start will likely end up being some time in June based on the timing of the announcement.

We will probably have at least one more announcement this year as the SCASD grant has been extended based on a request from American Airlines for service to Dallas. No official word on when/if the route will start.

Other ToledoTalk Airport-related Threads
Toledo Air Show 2016 Information
ANG Base Pursuing F-35s

Current Route Map

Current Scheduled Service

DestinationAirlineFlightsEquipment
Chicago O'HareAmerican Eagle ops by Envoy3 DailyERJ-145
Myrtle BeachAllegiant Air2 WeeklyAirbus A320 & MD-83
Orlando / SanfordAllegiant Air2-4 WeeklyAirbus A320 & MD-83
Punta GordaAllegiant Air2 WeeklyAirbus A320 & MD-83
St. Pete / ClearwaterAllegiant Air2-5 WeeklyAirbus A320 & MD-83

Schedule Commercial Aircraft

Airbus A-320McDonnell Dougle MD-83Embraer ERJ-140/145

Other Resources & Links
FlightAware TOL Air Traffic
Offical Toledo Express Website

created by JustaSooner on Mar 07, 2016 at 02:42:50 pm
updated by JustaSooner on Jun 07, 2016 at 02:23:56 pm
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Comments ... #

Or just drive to Detroit and use a real airport.

posted by MIJeff on Mar 07, 2016 at 02:55:41 pm     #  

MIJeff posted at 02:55:41 PM on Mar 07, 2016:

Or just drive to Detroit and use a real airport.

Your contributions are always so enlightening.

posted by JustaSooner on Mar 07, 2016 at 03:00:44 pm     #   13 people liked this

would that be a direct Dallas route on American? Man, that would save me a ton of time. I'm there every six weeks.

posted by kaj on Mar 07, 2016 at 03:15:19 pm     #  

I'd love the CLT or PHL routes you mentioned in a previous post (going back a year or two.) I'd be OK with Dallas, too..

It'd just be nice to have somewhere other than ORD to connect to for international flights (especially w/ kids). I've always looked TOL-ORD-Final Destination.. but the times (and sometimes cost) have always been prohibitive. I don't want to fly to ORD and sit there for 6 hours when I can fly DTW-CLT and only have a 60-90 minute layover until I board again for the final destination.

Good idea for a topic on here!

posted by wahhutch9 on Mar 07, 2016 at 03:16:22 pm     #  

kaj posted at 03:15:19 PM on Mar 07, 2016:

would that be a direct Dallas route on American? Man, that would save me a ton of time. I'm there every six weeks.

Yes, nonstop to DFW. Either 1 or 2 daily flights. Type of aircraft up in the air, either the ERJ 145 or 175. Still not 100% set in stone yet, but seems probable at this point in my opinion.

posted by JustaSooner on Mar 07, 2016 at 03:20:18 pm     #   1 person liked this

I'll attempt to address MIJeff's lack of enthusiasm.

First off Toledo is a real airport, just serving different needs.

Second, just flying Toledo every so often helps the local economy in different ways. Most notably, it brings in federal dollars to rehabilitate and update the airport and surrounding areas. The past few years, federal dollars, because of people who fly out of Toledo helped bring in, put thousands to work repaving the main runway (7/25) and the main taxiway (Bravo). It helps having the guard here, but the real federal dollars (and jobs) come from passengers who fly out of Toledo, every once in a while. Oh yeah, helps keep a few larger companies with corporate basis here too to have access to a good facility.

posted by avinsurer on Mar 07, 2016 at 03:24:27 pm     #   6 people liked this

wahhutch9 posted at 03:16:22 PM on Mar 07, 2016:

I'd love the CLT or PHL routes you mentioned in a previous post (going back a year or two.) I'd be OK with Dallas, too..

It'd just be nice to have somewhere other than ORD to connect to for international flights (especially w/ kids). I've always looked TOL-ORD-Final Destination.. but the times (and sometimes cost) have always been prohibitive. I don't want to fly to ORD and sit there for 6 hours when I can fly DTW-CLT and only have a 60-90 minute layover until I board again for the final destination.

Good idea for a topic on here!

I would prefer CLT over DFW initially, but would imagine as long as DFW is received well...CLT is a given to follow. I could see CLT actually being much more successful compared to ORD and DFW. The market from here to Southeast US is pretty strong. ATL for example was at one point over 200 pax a day going to that market (not connecting on to somewhere else) and Florida of course is always strong.

Oil prices are remaining fairly low historically, so I think we will start seeing expansion into the small/medium markets again finally like we had back in the 90s. We'll see though.

posted by JustaSooner on Mar 07, 2016 at 03:25:00 pm     #  

avinsurer posted at 03:24:27 PM on Mar 07, 2016:

I'll attempt to address MIJeff's lack of enthusiasm.

First off Toledo is a real airport, just serving different needs.

Second, just flying Toledo every so often helps the local economy in different ways. Most notably, it brings in federal dollars to rehabilitate and update the airport and surrounding areas. The past few years, federal dollars, because of people who fly out of Toledo helped bring in, put thousands to work repaving the main runway (7/25) and the main taxiway (Bravo). It helps having the guard here, but the real federal dollars (and jobs) come from passengers who fly out of Toledo, every once in a while. Oh yeah, helps keep a few larger companies with corporate basis here too to have access to a good facility.

I wish I could fly Toledo. But there are no options for me.

posted by justread on Mar 07, 2016 at 03:38:14 pm     #  

To those that drive north, it is understandable. When I lived in OKC we would still have leakage there to DFW, a 3 hour drive away. People are attracted to the lower fares generated by Spirit and of course one of the largest airports in the nation. Definitely not unique to Toledo, but just what consumers are willing to do or put up with. I have no problem making connections to get where I need to go. Even when I fly out of DTW, I never take Delta - so the I'm not benefiting from the nonstop service. It is so overpriced on most markets I travel in, that it isn't worth it and I normally stick with Southwest.

Definitely have some rebuilding of the market to go. It comes down to providing options that people want. Not everyone is going to be served, but the airport was on track to go over 700,000/yr at one point. So it shows the market is willing to use it...if the service is there. The issue becomes the airlines won't offer new service if the market isn't already there. However, if AA gets DFW going and then does a successful launch of CLT...that might just be the catalyst needed to get things rolling again.

posted by JustaSooner on Mar 07, 2016 at 03:56:39 pm     #  

The decision to only offer one cabin with 30 inch seat pitch takes Toledo off of the table for many people before we even talk about price, connections or destinations. Toledo is not an airport that can serve people over 6 feet tall. If tiny little people can fit in the cattle cars that Allegiant flies (Or in those little tubes with wings called RJ-145s) more power to them.

posted by justread on Mar 07, 2016 at 04:15:33 pm     #  

justread posted at 04:15:33 PM on Mar 07, 2016:

The decision to only offer one cabin with 30 inch seat pitch takes Toledo off of the table for many people before we even talk about price, connections or destinations. Toledo is not an airport that can serve people over 6 feet tall. If tiny little people can fit in the cattle cars that Allegiant flies (Or in those little tubes with wings called RJ-145s) more power to them.

The left side on the ERJ isn't bad for people over 6', granted yes...it isn't the most comfortable. As far as two class service...it's probably closer to coming to the market than most realize.

posted by JustaSooner on Mar 07, 2016 at 04:18:14 pm     #  

"I don't want to fly to ORD and sit there for 6 hours"... literally did that a couple weeks ago when the GIANT SNOWSTORM dropped 3" on us. Took 30 mins to get through TSA in Toledo...yes, in Toledo 30 mins. to get through the retiree security squad. Flight was almost delayed here because of the GIANT SNOWSTORM, but we managed to get out and into ORD where 0 snow was evidenced. Delayed at ORD because a wheel "compressed" so maintenance required we disembark. That took 4+ hours. Delayed again because a GIANT SNOW SQUALL moved through and we had to wait it out and then re-board and wait another 30 minutes for a second de-icing. ORD s-u-c-k-s.

posted by justareviewer on Mar 07, 2016 at 04:29:13 pm     #  

omg BWI please...

posted by endcycle on Mar 07, 2016 at 04:31:21 pm     #   1 person liked this

I wish I could use TOL. If they had flights to Atlanta and Charlotte (or NYC), I would. However, flying to Chicago (which is backwards to my destination) makes no sense when I am flying to the south and the east.

posted by Dappling2 on Mar 07, 2016 at 06:00:47 pm     #  

Fairly confident that Myrtle Beach on Allegiant will be the announcement in the morning.

posted by JustaSooner on Mar 07, 2016 at 09:58:16 pm     #   1 person liked this

Ignore the air fare for MYR, it is a place holder. Would assume flights start June 1st.

posted by JustaSooner on Mar 07, 2016 at 10:17:29 pm     #  

Dappling2 posted at 06:00:47 PM on Mar 07, 2016:

I wish I could use TOL. If they had flights to Atlanta and Charlotte (or NYC), I would. However, flying to Chicago (which is backwards to my destination) makes no sense when I am flying to the south and the east.

As somebody who lives in CLT, I would LOVE a direct flight to TOL. Going through ODR isn't bad if there are no delays, but ODR is a TERRIBLE airport and the snowball effect from delays of any sort from around the country just lock that place down. The last couple times I've flown to TOL, I've taken the first flight of the day out of CLT to ODR so I get through that hellhole before the day gets going.

The convenience of TOL over DTW is huge and the direct flight prices between CLT and DTW haven't been good in years. A TOL-CLT direct flight would give passengers a very cost-effective way to get to the Caribbean, Mexico, or Central America for vacation.

posted by clt212 on Mar 08, 2016 at 10:33:36 am     #  

JustaSooner posted at 09:58:16 PM on Mar 07, 2016:

Fairly confident that Myrtle Beach on Allegiant will be the announcement in the morning.

Myrtle Vegas!

posted by clt212 on Mar 08, 2016 at 10:34:06 am     #  

I would still kill for a Baltimore route. are there more announcements coming or is the myrtle beach announcement it?

posted by endcycle on Mar 08, 2016 at 11:26:46 am     #  

endcycle posted at 11:26:46 AM on Mar 08, 2016:

I would still kill for a Baltimore route. are there more announcements coming or is the myrtle beach announcement it?

This will probably be it for a bit. Already seeing a good amount of seats sold on the MYR flights, so that puts TOL in a good position for continued expansion.

posted by JustaSooner on Mar 08, 2016 at 11:37:06 am     #  

I guess people who live in Maumee, Sylvania, western parts of Toledo can benefit from Toledo airport, I live very close to 75 on the border, Toledo or Detroit are equal driving distances for me, Toledo would not really be any convienence to me or I would say Northern East side folks, strictly from a traveling sense. Having several choice of airlines with 50+ destinations would trump any thing Toledo currently has to offer.

posted by MIJeff on Mar 09, 2016 at 01:07:32 am     #  

Sure, many folks in the metro are probably roughly equidistant. Point Place to DTW is 38 miles, to TOL is 32 miles. But there are just as many to the south and west that are much closer to TOL.

I live out in the far west Metro, and I've driven to both TOL and FWA over DTW before if the price is right. To me, the reduced stress of the whole experience is worth it - less hassle parking, an easier trip through security, a more relaxed gate area. It just makes the trip better for me.

Plus, like avinsurer posted above, passenger air dollars are really important to the smaller local airports. If my itinerary allows and the route and cost options are there, I'll fly out of a regional any day.

posted by kaj on Mar 09, 2016 at 09:58:12 am     #   3 people liked this

TOL fan here. We always check the rates before settling on DTW -- if the fares are within roughly a hundred dollars, we choose TOL.

I would fly to Charlotte twice a year from here.

Great thread, JustaSooner, and thanks for the photos.

P.S. I grew up watching big planes take off at ORD -- the thrill has never worn off!

posted by viola on Mar 09, 2016 at 10:18:05 am     #   2 people liked this

To me, the reduced stress of the whole experience is worth it - less hassle parking, an easier trip through security, a more relaxed gate area. It just makes the trip better for me.

I totally agree and it also makes the process of traveling with an older relative much easier as well, as we learned with my mom a few years ago.

I will say that it's much easier to get in and around DTW than it used to be. My son flies in from Philly every year for the holidays. Given the choice, however, I'd happily avoid I-75 in Michigan in wintry weather.

posted by valbee on Mar 09, 2016 at 12:17:41 pm     #  

Flew out of TOL on Thursday for a long weekend in Milwaukee. The terminal (and bathrooms) reeeeeeeally need a deep clean. But the flight was smooth, no delays on either end, and it was so nice to leave the TOL terminal last night and walk 20 seconds to my waiting car.

My flights were nearly full and it looked like a good mix of business and leisure travelers.

JustaSooner / avinsurer, any more word on the potential Dallas add on American?

posted by kaj on Jun 07, 2016 at 01:22:58 pm     #  

Good feedback. I know American treat's Toledo as more of a premium destination for business travelers, and that is how they market/price it.

As far as Dallas...I can't say much without saying too much. I am quite optimistic on additional market(s) being added from Toledo this year. And no, I'm not including the newly launched Myrtle Beach flights that started last week. :-D

posted by JustaSooner on Jun 07, 2016 at 02:17:07 pm     #   1 person liked this

"I can't say much without saying too much"

That's a good quote.

posted by jr on Jun 07, 2016 at 02:59:01 pm     #  

Please be CLT or PHL... Please be CLT or PHL (crossing fingers)

posted by wahhutch9 on Jun 07, 2016 at 03:46:10 pm     #   1 person liked this

BWI pretty please.

posted by endcycle on Jun 07, 2016 at 08:18:16 pm     #  

wahhutch - AA is ending Fort Wayne to PHL in September, so the likelihood of that route is slim. I believe we have the passenger traffic for CLT but the problem that I see is commitment by the Port to fork over seed money to get it up and running. TOL currently has a DOT grant available till Dec 31 to get an airline to start a new route and I believe the amount of cash involved is either $750k or $1M. I would think they need closer to $2M-$2.5M upfront cash to guard against losses for the route. The Port in March said they weren't really interested in ponying up more money for a route.

As for DFW, it has it's pros and cons to the airline at the moment. First this area has a lot of passengers to/from DFW and Texas itself. Cost to run from TOL is minimal and support would most likely be very high. Cons - long stage length for a smaller aircraft. The longer the length of flight, the higher the cost to be spread over a finite amount of seats - 50 which equals higher fares required. The airlines are reducing 50 seat flying in favor of 70 seat aircraft and there is a pilot shortage for the regional airlines (don't let anyone tell you it's solely based on pay either). The resources are very tight and why run a 76 seat jet TOL-DFW when you could run 2 flights like TOL-ORD during the same block times? Can TOL fill a 76 seat jet to DFW...probably, but DTW-DFW is consistently one of AA's top performers in their entire system (depending on metrics).

There are two destinations that are hot for Allegiant right now - Savannah, GA and Fort Walton Beach/Destin, FL. If FWB/Destin continues to do well for them I would think we stand a good chance to pick up that destination.

endcycle - Allegiant has started a few routes of out BWI, but the chances of TOL-BWI I would put at less than 0%. Delta, Southwest, and Spirit are flying DTW-BWI which means fares are really low.

One opportunity I see coming TOL's way is for the winter of 2018. At some point in 2017, Punta Cana is opening up a Customs Pre-Clear facility. This would alleviate any kind of reason for TOL to build a commercial airline FIS facility. Something like this could bring one or two times a week flights to Punta Cana during peak season.

It comes down to community support and commitment by the Port board to start stuff. We shall see how MYR does...

posted by avinsurer on Jun 08, 2016 at 09:25:03 am     #  

Thanks! I'd just like to see something from AA that would allow me to connect to more international destinations out of TOL. I always search TOL-ORD-final destination... But the timing and costs never work well, so I always end up heading to DTW.

posted by wahhutch9 on Jun 08, 2016 at 10:02:04 am     #  

Before you criticize the port authority too harshly for not "forking over the money" to guarantee revenue for new air service, you need to understand the airport's finances.

TOL is carrying a HEAVY debt load. When he was airports director, Paul Toth wanted to make reducing this debt a priority. Others didn't see it as a large priority.

The airport operates in the red or at break even at best while servicing this debt. Any funds the port authority provides the airport from its revenue that come from seaport revenues must be counted as debt. Seeing as how seaport revenue is by far the largest source of revenue for the port authority, that is where the revenue will come from.

We used to joke that Toledo Express was the best airport a seaport ever built.

posted by MemyselfandI on Jun 08, 2016 at 11:07:49 am     #  

If TOL had more options than TOL-ORD, I'd give up my Delta Diamond status in a heart beat.

posted by odnation on Jun 08, 2016 at 11:21:11 am     #  

wahhutch9 posted at 11:02:04 AM on Jun 08, 2016:

Thanks! I'd just like to see something from AA that would allow me to connect to more international destinations out of TOL. I always search TOL-ORD-final destination... But the timing and costs never work well, so I always end up heading to DTW.

AA service at DTW is pretty bad.
Even when a pilot ISN'T running into another plane at the de-icing pad. Or when the flight DOESN'T push back to the gate and get cancelled. Or when the pilot ISN'T pulled off the plane drunk.

Then there is Tony V., the worst airline employee in the history of air travel, working the luggage counter at AA in MIA. "Oh. You must not fly much. This happens all the time. You'd be used to it."

The only airline that ever lost my luggage on a nonstop flight.

Also the only airline that ever sent me back to the main ticket counter (on the wrong side of the TSA) to be reticketed AFTER I had already cleared security and was sitting in first class on a flight. (No. I didn't do that.... I jumped on the 800 number from my phone at the gate. But dozens of people accepted this direction from AA gate agents and did the TSA shuffle twice same day.

When the CEO of American was blasting the TSA, I couldn't help think of Americans gate agents sending people through TSA twice the same morning because they didn't have the customer service capacity at the gate because DTW isn't anywhere near an AA hub.

posted by justread on Jun 08, 2016 at 11:38:24 am     #  

^
Ouch

When we fly out of DTW, it's probably been 50% Delta, 40% Southwest, and 10% American (because I had AA miles).

posted by wahhutch9 on Jun 08, 2016 at 12:14:29 pm     #  

Delta at DTW makes sense.
If Delta screws you at DTW, they have some options to unscrew you. If American screws you, no matter where you were going, you are now going to Charlotte.

posted by justread on Jun 08, 2016 at 12:59:14 pm     #  

MMaI - Not really criticizing the Port much, it's their decision to not put up more money. I just don't want to hear them complain about not having service because other cities ponied up the money to start it and they didn't.

As for paying down the debt - I really agree with what PT has been doing with paying off that building. I think it comes due in 2018 maybe? I can't remember but it's within the next 3-4 years. The airport has been positive for the past few years, I think because of funky math, but mainly because of selling/leasing of assets. What has killed them so far this year is the loss of BX Solutions revenue.

Paying off that debt will be key to the next step of the airport - a new, more efficient terminal. I know I will take flack for suggesting spending a large amount of money on a terminal that handles less than 200,000 passengers a year, but the guts of this place go back to when it opened back in the late 50's. A 4 gate terminal would suffice but it will definitely come at a cost, so paying off the old BAX facility is a necessity in order to finance building a smaller more efficient terminal.

posted by avinsurer on Jun 08, 2016 at 01:31:51 pm     #  

I remember flying in and out of CWA a few years ago and thinking that this is exactly what TOL should be. A small 4-5 gate terminal with a few major destinations and a couple seasonal ones. Of course, CWA is successful because they don't have a huge airport less than an hour away, but it would still be nice if TOL resembled it.

posted by odnation on Jun 08, 2016 at 02:49:38 pm     #  

I agree that it's time to think about either a new terminal for TOL, or for public transportation from the city to DTW. I fly a few times a year, usually out of DTW, for all the reasons others have stated above. I almost never fly Delta out of DTW, but consistently find reasonable flights on Alaska (to Seattle), Frontier, and Spirit (which I despise).

On a trip to Asia last year, I saw a fare sale from AA from CLE to Narita-Tokyo, and started looking at other airports - Columbus, Dayton, Ft. Wayne, Detroit, and Toledo - and magically, the TOL-ORD-NRT and back route was exceptionally cheap, so I took it. There was a mixup with the first leg, and I missed the flight to ORD, but they were able to rebook me and salvage all the seats...bless that gate agent. On the return in December, it was a madhouse into ORD, but the staff had managed to create an orange-card system to get me through everything and catch my TOL flight with exactly 2 minutes to spare. The worst part was, though, the attendant on the ORD-TOL flight. It was an older gentleman who looked like he'd been working regional flights for a long time, and while I was excited to get home to Ohio, he was moaning about how we all had to go to "To-leeeee-do. Sorry folks". That just ruined the homecoming for me.

I live south of Toledo, and would probably use TOL more if it had other flights, but I really prefer direct domestic flights if possible, so that rules in DTW, and rules out TOL.

posted by swampprof on Jun 08, 2016 at 07:12:39 pm     #  

Just a couple comments since I understand where you come from Swampprof.

You first comment about new terminal or public transport to DTW...there is no debate here if deciding between the two - new terminal. Airports get access to a decent amount of federal funding by having passenger service. So it is essential to maintain some level of passenger traffic. Let's all keep in mind...Allegiant does very well from Toledo. American may not have 100% load factors, but the station is very profitable for them. There is also no financial gain for the city/area to offer transportation to a facility across state lines where they won't profit from. HSR or whatever just doesn't make sense to DTW. Not to get too far off topic, the one thing I believe that does make sense would be to try to become the test market/launch site for Hyperloop between the main rail hubs of Toledo and Detroit. With the amount of semi traffic that current is on 75...it would be a massive economic boost to transport goods from a Toledo hub (connected to rail and sea) up to the factories in Detroit. Anyway...

A new terminal is something that is needed. The 1955 model that has been patched together through the years is a money pit. Smaller cities like Saginaw, La Crosse, etc all have newer terminals that are small but modern and efficient. I'm not talking about building a massive terminal that will see little use. I'm thinking more of a smaller/modern 4-gate facility to replace the current 9-gate terminal that would allow for easy expansion should the need arise.

Next point you mentioned you rarely fly Delta. The last time I flew Delta was probably...2002 or so. Of course that was before they assimilated Northwest and still flew here. All of my travel is on Southwest, which means I don't use TOL (though would prefer to), but they also signed my paychecks for a few years so I'm a little devoted. ;) Frontier was very close to coming in here a couple years back, but then they changed their focus from the smaller cities to poach bigger markets like Spirit has been doing. They would have been great here I think, but they want the low hanging fruit.

You experience on AA I won't speak to, but I will say the local station is extremely senior and filled with experienced people that go out of their way when able. They appreciate everyone that comes through.

Last point hit the nail on the head for this area. You prefer direct domestic flights, so that naturally puts TOL at a disadvantage right now unless you are going to Chicago, Florida or Myrtle Beach. It is nothing new. I remember back to the early 90s I think it was with former airport director John McCue. Over 10 years had passed on deregulation and passenger numbers were falling and he put it out there...use or lose it. Since that warning and over the years, Toledo which use to have nearly 50 flights day out of it has lost a lot - though not all of it is the market's fault. Consolidation really kicked this market down, but I think we've bottomed out and its up from here.

Will TOL every have a significant amount of direct domestic routes? No. However, continuing to support AA and G4 from Toledo should allow us to grow with them. Off the top of my head I think there is a market for options like...Allegiant to Fort Walton Beach, Mesa (AZ), and Las Vegas. American I think I covered plenty already that connecting into their 4 main hubs are all viable, but the order they happen will vary. Growth options out of what we have could come from anywhere. I like the arena of smaller carriers in growth mode that provide a high quality product. I also feel the eyes are on what G4 and AA do as well. If we see growth start with them (which G4 is there with MYR starting), then others will notice. The whole thing is use the service we have when you can, even though I know it isn't possible for everyone. At least the idea of driving to Detroit isn't as crazy of what I witnessed of people driving 3-hour from OKC to Dallas, and OKC is pretty well connected to most major business markets.

posted by JustaSooner on Jun 08, 2016 at 10:08:18 pm     #  

It appears things are going well with the new Myrtle Beach flights. Things could actually heat up in 2017 and 2018 as an increase in frequency to current destinations and a new destination is being pitched (well lots are). I can honestly say 2018 could bring first international service out of TOL in Punta Cana DR. They have a preclearance facility opening up in 2017 and that could lead to weekly flights to smaller cities. We shall see....

http://www.wtol.com/story/32417604/now-boarding-myrtle-beach-and-beyond

posted by avinsurer on Jul 11, 2016 at 10:00:19 pm     #  

I wish Delta would return TOL service and I would use TOL sometimes just for the added MQM's and parking convenience.

As someone that flies enough to achieve Diamond status on Delta it doesn't pay me to use Toledo. I hate connecting and every flight I've taken this year with the exception of my two DTW/MDW flights would require connection (and in those cases I would have to fly into OHare and Midway is a lot more convenient).

At least if I have a flight cancel or delay at DTW on Delta they can usually reaccomodate me on another flight unless an airport is closed due to weather. Not so out of Toledo.

I think Toledo is a good alternative for the once or twice a year vacation flyer though, but doesn't make sense for a frequent flyer with DTW so close by

posted by jamesteroh on Jul 12, 2016 at 02:26:25 pm     #  

Toledo is a pretty nice airport and I'm glad to see the A320s flying especially when I'm flying my plane into the airport.

posted by 20mkar on Jul 13, 2016 at 05:13:11 pm     #  

I also wouldn't be surprised if in the next few years, Allegiant stops routes. The airline is under Federal investigation because it uses poorly training mechanics which cause many planes a year every month to break down.

posted by 20mkar on Jul 13, 2016 at 08:15:01 pm     #  

20mkar posted at 09:15:01 PM on Jul 13, 2016:

I also wouldn't be surprised if in the next few years, Allegiant stops routes. The airline is under Federal investigation because it uses poorly training mechanics which cause many planes a year every month to break down.

They are getting the bad press right now, but at the end of the day - they are highly profitable and aren't going anywhere. They've been around for decades, so I wouldn't write them off too quick. They do attract a lot of hate like Spirit, but they still fill around 90% of their seats from Toledo.

The 13ABC story is fluff that they tossed together. Flights cancel...it happens. Not going to defend G4 though, they do need to get some operational stuff fixed and of course address the maintenance concerns. Things will definitely improve as the MD-80s are phased out and more A319s/320s are brought into service. The MD-80s will be initially phased out from the non-Las Vegas destinations first, so that would push TOL towards an all Airbus offering sooner.

posted by JustaSooner on Jul 13, 2016 at 08:50:28 pm     #  

If an Allegiant flight cancels do they have interline agreements with American or other airlines out of DTW or are the passengers screwed? If they don't have interline agreements and the flights are going out 90% full it would be hard to rebooked since they don't fly out of DTW.

Back in the old days of Northwest I had a couple flights on Delta or Northwest that cancelled out of TOL or were oversold and in one case Delta interlined me on a USAir flight (when they were still in business and servicing TOL) that actually got me there faster than my original flight would have and in the other cases they provided me and other passengers car service to DTW to get us out that day.

That's a huge concern of mine with using Allegient if I ever go to Orlando (in addition to them flying to a smaller airport in Orlando). If my flight on Delta gets messed up there's plenty of other options to get me there on other Delta flights out of DTW or they can interline me on another airline. With Allegient you could be screwed and Toledo isn't an airport that seems fun to wait around in.

posted by jamesteroh on Jul 14, 2016 at 11:36:51 am     #  

Allegiant doesn't interline with anyone, much like Southwest and other low cost carriers. Interlines cost $$$ and it is one of the items not used to keep their costs down.

Let me give this some context on the cancelled flights since 13ABC and the Blade have brought this up and really haven't done any research. All airline stats are public record and can be viewed here: http://www.transtats.bts.gov/DL_SelectFields.asp?Table_ID=293&DB_Short_Name=Air%20Carriers

2016's date is only through January so far...

For January Allegiant had 9 trips each to PGD, PIE, and SFB. All 9 flights were completed - no cancellations.

For the sake of comparing, from Detroit to Orlando, Delta had 76 schedule and only completed 65. Spirit had 92 scheduled and completed all. Southwest had 4 and completed 4.

Back to TOL...
2015 ... G4 had 351 scheduled departures, 351 completions.

The Port probably has stats for the year to date and I'll see if I can dig those up to put some perspective to this all.

Regardless, understand the concern of getting stranded if a flight cancels, but historically this has not been a long term issue with them. Two flights also don't make it a trend.

posted by JustaSooner on Jul 14, 2016 at 12:14:09 pm     #  

JustaSooner posted at 09:58:16 PM on Mar 07, 2016:

Fairly confident that Myrtle Beach on Allegiant will be the announcement in the morning.

http://www.toledoblade.com/local/2017/01/18/Allegiant-pulls-route-from-Toledo-Express-Airport.html

posted by 6th_Floor on Jan 18, 2017 at 12:08:06 pm     #  

Someone needs to start an hourly shuttle service between Toledo and DTW airport. Offer a secured parking lot downtown with reasonable fees and a shuttle that runs every 60 to 90 minutes and they would probably be profitable.

I don't recall this but my boyfriend remembers in the 80s that there a reasonably priced bus that went from the old Sheraton on Secor to DTW and you could park for free in the parking garage.

posted by classylady on Jan 19, 2017 at 04:21:37 pm     #   2 people liked this

Someone needs to start an hourly shuttle service between Toledo and DTW airport. Offer a secured parking lot downtown with reasonable fees and a shuttle that runs every 60 to 90 minutes and they would probably be profitable.

I don't recall this but my boyfriend remembers in the 80s that there a reasonably priced bus that went from the old Sheraton on Secor to DTW and you could park for free in the parking garage.

posted by classylady on Jan 19, 2017 at 04:21:38 pm     #  

This sounds like a job for an existing limo and/or taxi company! I wonder what kind of investment would be necessary for a fleet of 3 vehicles, a staff of part-time drivers, insurance, and guaranteed access to a portion of a garage. It doesn't sound insurmountable.

Come to think of it, the Port Authority should be running it. It would be consistent with their mission of making the ports and metro area as useful as possible to the moneymaking enterprises that will boost the economy.

posted by viola on Jan 19, 2017 at 04:47:08 pm     #  

"Come to think of it, the Port Authority should be running it." ... brilliant, because they've done a great job of driving traffic to DTW for years - may as well charge for it.

posted by justareviewer on Jan 19, 2017 at 08:14:20 pm     #   1 person liked this

#MicDrop

posted by Molsonator on Jan 19, 2017 at 08:35:52 pm     #  

There is plenty of free parking at the Amtrak/Greyhound station. Didn't they move Greyhound there to make it a "transportation hub". Provide shuttle service every 60 to 90 minutes at a reasonable rate and I think they would do good and it's near downtown. People could go there for the bus, train or to fly. From downtown it only takes me about 15 more minutes to go to DTW than TOL. I'd love to fly out of Toledo instead of DTW but for most frequent flyers it isn't worth the hassle.

A little OT but I wish Megabus would stop at the Amtrak/Greyhound station. I'd be willing to take Mega to Chicago seeing the schedule is convenient but no convenient free parking and I don't want to get a drop off/pick up seeing they run behind schedule frequently. I would love to take Amtrak to Chicago but the schedule going to Chicago is awful (great returning).

posted by classylady on Jan 20, 2017 at 09:56:26 am     #