Toledo Talk

Current location of handheld radar guns!!

Beware!!! 10am, Friday Feb. 10th. Hiding on top of overpass on Douglas rd.

created by FranklinT on Feb 10, 2017 at 10:11:04 am     Comments: 285

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Yeah. Exactly.

And look what people are doing with all the heroin that doesn't get found in traffic stops anymore, because traffic stops slow down revenue generation. Money over safety.

posted by justread on Jun 30, 2017 at 06:50:25 pm     #   1 person liked this

I received a ticket for no front plate many years ago and who can forget this famous no front plate stop?
http://www.toledoblade.com/Police-Fire/2014/05/13/Report-Sykes-claims-he-was-racially-profiled-while-driving-unfounded.html
If you drive without a front plate your giving the police a reason to pull you over anytime if they want to. This week was the first time I ever saw the cop shooting front plates on 475 at Promedica. In theory it he got a speeder he could just shoot the back plate after it went by.

posted by OldTimer on Jun 30, 2017 at 07:24:04 pm     #  

https://www.phantomplate.com/

posted by dino on Jun 30, 2017 at 08:43:35 pm     #  

That site looks like the Internet equivalent of a 2:00 A.M. infomercial.

If it works, I am all for it. Spendy, though. I would buy either the spray or the cover just out of spite.

posted by JoeyGee on Jul 01, 2017 at 06:47:54 am     #   1 person liked this

Traveled this morning around 8:30am from Lima area Exit 125 using 75N to the 475 split. Subconsciously counted over (10 or so) OHP troopers with all but (2) engaged in a traffic stop.

Write all you want about the real purpose of speed cameras (safety vs. revenue). I opine that a good number of drivers today have no respect for ANY posted speed limit ANYWHERE.

As a result, I fully support law enforcement's effort to address this disrespect. All actions have consequences (good/bad). If you can't afford to exercise your perceived freedom of choice to drive at whatever speed you desire, simply obey the law and save the cost of a ticket and any avoidance mechanism that may/may not work.

Pretty simple to me......but then I am a Pollack....

posted by ThePolishFalcon on Jul 02, 2017 at 08:18:34 pm     #  

"Write all you want about the real purpose of speed cameras (safety vs. revenue)."

I will continue to write about what I think are the real purposes. Thanks for granting us the permission to express an opinion.

When I see this happy horseshit in the Sun, Jul 2, 2017 Toledo Blade, then I start to have less respect for Toledo police.

Toledo police Lt. Jeff Sulewski said officers use the speed cameras to create a safer driving environment.

Lead-foot drivers are filling Toledo’s coffers faster than officials had projected.

Part of that money has already been spent. Toledo City Council last week approved the mayor’s plan to spend $250,000 more to hire new police officers a month earlier this year, from August to July.

Safer driving environment. Good one. For their next comedy act, law enforcement will claim that the should-be-illegal search checkpoints are meant to reduce drunk driving.

Toledo DOES NOT NEED more police officers. We don't need to maintain the current number of officers.

Toledo needs fewer police officers to match the continual decline in Toledo's population.

If city officials claim that Toledo's crime rate is higher now than at any time in the city's history, relative to the population, then I can understand the need for more officers.

Otherwise, this is the usual, demented political theater. Holy hell, the rubes should be able to grasp this concept by now.

The police union endorses local political candidates who do favors for the police.


"All actions have consequences ..."

Yeah, right.

For weeks, troglodytes have been detonating illegal bombs in West Toledo, and, of course, it has grown horribly worse over the past two weeks. The 4th of July holiday in Toledo begins in February.

Police hassle highway drivers on a sunny day in the name of safety. But when rockets are repeatedly red-glaring after 1:00 a.m. during weekdays, that's no big deal. It's simply knuckle-draggers being knuckle-draggers.


"... simply obey the law and save the cost of a ticket and any avoidance mechanism that may/may not work."

Obey the law. Wow. What a concept. But once again, that master of the obvious suggestion misses the point of the cameras.

# - The city's needs this revenue for the general fund, ironically, to help pay the salaries of police officers.

Money collected from traffic enforcement cameras is listed in the budget as revenue. The city expects a minimum amount of money from these cameras to keep the budget balanced. It's not bonus money for the rainy day fund.

Since it's expected revenue in the budget, then it's obviously a money grab. If nobody drove dangerously, then we would have a multi-million dollar budget hole that would have to be made up somewhere.

# - If people drive legally, then the city will be deprived of $6 million. The city wants that money, and it will get it somehow.

# - When speeding rackets and an illegal tax become significant revenue streams, then things are still a bit unhealthy in Toledo.

# - Driving the speed limit does not resolve the long-term financial incompetence of city government.


I will believe that the cameras are about safety when the camera revenue is not listed in Toledo's budget.

Making this camera discussion about safety is a clever distraction technique to take the focus away from Toledo government's sleaziness, thievery and reckless spending of taxpayer money.

Think about how stupid this sounds: Obey the driving laws, and Toledo government suddenly becomes intelligent.

posted by jr on Jul 02, 2017 at 11:14:41 pm     #   7 people liked this

ThePolishFalcon posted at 09:18:34 PM on Jul 02, 2017:

Traveled this morning around 8:30am from Lima area Exit 125 using 75N to the 475 split. Subconsciously counted over (10 or so) OHP troopers with all but (2) engaged in a traffic stop.

Write all you want about the real purpose of speed cameras (safety vs. revenue). I opine that a good number of drivers today have no respect for ANY posted speed limit ANYWHERE.

As a result, I fully support law enforcement's effort to address this disrespect. All actions have consequences (good/bad). If you can't afford to exercise your perceived freedom of choice to drive at whatever speed you desire, simply obey the law and save the cost of a ticket and any avoidance mechanism that may/may not work.

Pretty simple to me......but then I am a Pollack....

You can have your punishment cameras, but I want a democracy. The fucking deer in Ottawa Hills have better representation than this.

posted by justread on Jul 03, 2017 at 03:31:02 am     #   5 people liked this

Well said JR. The police don't stop crime, for the most part they just show up after a crime is committed to take down the details.
We don't need more police. What is the city going to do hire more police and then put more hand held camera's out there?
Didn't the Ohio Supreme Court rule that red light camera's were illegal and the cities should stop using them? The main issue behind this was that a cop isn't present. So the city goes around this law and gets hand held camera's. Isn't this the way this has played out so far?
I agree to about the fireworks! I have to medicate my dogs because of these assholes.

posted by reggie on Jul 03, 2017 at 04:40:48 am     #   3 people liked this

After reading these posts am fixated on the word sleaziness. Gotta go wash my hands.

posted by Mariner on Jul 03, 2017 at 05:54:16 am     #  

Quick clarification. Hand sanitation necessary due to guvmint not the posters.

posted by Mariner on Jul 03, 2017 at 06:02:00 am     #  

You will be redder in Toledo.

posted by JoeyGee on Jul 03, 2017 at 07:16:26 am     #  

Why stop at speeding?

Why not hand-held "housing ordinance violation cameras?" City inspectors can just drive by your property, take a picture of uncut grass, peeling paint, or a broken window, and just mail you a ticket for $500? Why do we need a housing court or a prosecutor or a judge?

posted by JohnnyMac on Jul 03, 2017 at 09:42:11 am     #   6 people liked this

There ya go Johnny. Then they can ask for bank #'s and take auto deductions from your account no muss no fuss. After all we are feeding the furnace for their purposes not for the greater common good.

posted by Mariner on Jul 03, 2017 at 01:18:06 pm     #  

They're using motorcycle cops now. Saw two in the short drive between Kroger on Monroe/Secor and downtown (Waze didn't alert me either time but I made sure to report them on the app).

First one was on I-475 east bound by Promedica. Second one was on 75 South between the 475 split and Collingwood.

City could do really good with an out of towner passing through on the interstate who didn't know about the cameras. Have a few of them set up on I-75 and if a speeder didn't know better they could end up with a few tickets.

posted by jamesteroh on Jul 03, 2017 at 05:29:09 pm     #  

"First one was on I-475 east bound by Promedica. Second one was on 75 South between the 475 split and Collingwood."

Like shooting fish in a barrel. Speaking of cameras , I was driving east bound down Alexis from Talmadge. At approx. Secor I noticed that almost every support arm over the road that the traffic lights hang from had what looked like a small camera pointing down. Anyone know what these are doing?
Happy fourth of July to everyone!

posted by reggie on Jul 04, 2017 at 04:12:03 am     #  

^^
Any number of missions - such as capturing license plate info.

posted by Foodie on Jul 04, 2017 at 05:35:42 am     #  

Negative Foodie (dons his know-it-all hat and here we go again) Those sense if a vehicle is at the intersection and then activate the the light change cycle. Keeps traffic flowing on the primary road until needed by a car at the red light. There are no data measurements nor transmissions from them. For once traffic engineering had a good idea and it works as designed. (end of I know all things about everything)

posted by Mariner on Jul 04, 2017 at 06:13:53 am     #   1 person liked this

if an accident happens due to the reaction of the public at seeing a police officer with a radar gun at the side of the road, who is liable? i know the answer is whoever was driving, but based on the traffic patterns I saw this past weekend with cars slowing WAY down at the 475 / 75 split, I'm surprised there weren't more accidents. if this is a public safety issue, the cops are doing more harm than good.

posted by upso on Jul 04, 2017 at 03:31:10 pm     #   2 people liked this

The spray won't work on the speed cameras the cops are currently using. With the red light/speed fixed cameras when they took a photo of the plate there was a flash and the spray caused a bad glare with the flash and made the plate photo unreadable. The cameras the cops are using now don't have a flash.

Has anyone witnessed a cop taking pics at night or are they only out when it's light outside?

posted by jamesteroh on Jul 04, 2017 at 06:21:48 pm     #   1 person liked this

So this is at least the second incident where the police were ticketing people for not breaking the law (this incident and the one earlier this year when the cops thought the speed limit was 10 MPH than it actually was).

I'm sure in both cases the city isn't going to voluntarily refund the money.

I don't understand how it is legal for the city to keep money for fines for traffic offenses that never occurred.

And how are the kids being kept safe from cops with a camera? Snapping pics of plates of speeding cars isn't going to stop a kid from getting hit by a speeding motorist. If the cops were visible it would remind people they are in a school zone and to slow down.

posted by jamesteroh on Jul 05, 2017 at 10:30:04 pm     #   2 people liked this

When growing up was told repeatedly there are only two kinds of guys - the good guys and the phonies...which one do you want to be?

posted by Mariner on Jul 06, 2017 at 07:25:11 am     #  

And how are the kids being kept safe from cops with a camera?

Yell and tell, I guess.

posted by justread on Jul 06, 2017 at 08:26:14 am     #  

Mariner posted at 08:25:11 AM on Jul 06, 2017:

When growing up was told repeatedly there are only two kinds of guys - the good guys and the phonies...which one do you want to be?

I don't understand. What does that have to do with the city taking money from citizens who obey the law?

One of the great, well-thought-out arguments on the camera subject is simply to drive the speed limit. Well, people did that, and they still got ticketed by an abusive government-police setup.

Welcome to Toledo, Ohio where people get ticketed for obeying the law.

In my opinion, it makes no difference if the speed trap was accidental or intentional. This is what happens when an overreaching government is desperate for revenue.

If accidental, how does a police officer not know where a school zone begins and ends? What about signage? This seems so basic. The rest of us are expected to know and obey the laws, but apparently, it's okay if the police don't.

I find it hard to believe that this was an accidental speed trap. And did this speed trap exist longer than one day?

Many people don't have the time nor the desire to fight the city, therefore they pay the fines and move on with their lives.

Thanks to the Blade's reporting, usually by Ignazio Messina when the topic is city government, it's unknown whether the city returned the money that it nefariously obtained.

Councilman Rob Ludeman said the Feb. 1 tickets — issued with the city’s handheld speed camera devices — were dismissed because neither he nor his wife, Elaine Ludeman, were in a school zone.

“The picture showed obviously I was two and a half blocks away when he clocked me going the speed limit for where I was,” Mr. Ludeman said.

Thirty-eight people, including Mr. Ludeman and his wife, were ticketed at that site that morning, starting at 8:51 a.m. until 9:09 a.m.

Mr. and Mrs. Ludeman’s tickets — each costing $120 — were dismissed without the couple appearing for one of the regular appeals hearings held downtown at One Government Center.

“The reason Councilman Ludeman contacted me is because he knows me as chief,” Chief Kral said.

[Ludeman said,] "I showed the ticket to Chief Kral and the officer was ordered to move back 150 yards. I was not guilty of anything and the ticket was revoked."

That part is confusing to me. The Ludemans were clocked in the speed trap on Wed, Feb 1, 2017. When did Rob Ludeman show Kral the ticket? I have not been ticketed. How long does it take for the ticket to arrive in the mail, assuming that's how it's delivered?

When did Kral order the officer to move back 150 yards? Did all of this occur on the same day, Feb 1, 2017? Or was the officer out of position for more than one day, which would mean that many more people were improperly ticketed?

More from the Blade story:

But were the speeding tickets fixed for the other 36 motorists who got them for speeding at the same time in the same place?

Mr. Ludeman said he assumed everyone else who received tickets that morning near the school would have had them dismissed. He said the city should go back and refund those 18 people and dismiss the rest.

Yeah, that's helpful. A city councilperson making assumptions.

More about Toledo government's revenue-generating program that's fictitiously advertised as a safety issue:

Of the 29,615 handheld tickets issued between Jan. 1 and May 26, only 370 were dismissed; 5,701 were too new to be challenged by the vehicle owners; 6,103 were listed at “full default,” and 641 were sent to collections. The majority of the remaining tickets were paid.

Mayor Paula Hicks-Hudson budgeted $2.3 million from fines this year generated by handheld speed cameras. The city collected $1.84 million by the end of May, putting it on track to collect more than $4.3 million by the end of 2017 if the same numbers of speeders are nailed with those tickets monthly.

With the way things spread on the internet, it wouldn't surprise me if word gets around about Toledo's insidious gotcha attitude. And it wouldn't surprise me if the camera revenue drops below expectations over the second half of 2017 as people become more aware.

That's the goal, after all. Safe driving. The city won't mind if revenue fails to meet expectations. But obviously, the city has a backup plan: ticketing people who obey the law.

posted by jr on Jul 06, 2017 at 09:52:19 am     #   5 people liked this

I have been reading this post since the beginning so when I had to come back home to Toledo a little over a week ago I was very cautious driving. Of course the road conditions automatically heightened my sense of caution (doom) but the strange thing is I was there from Friday night of June 23 and left Tues the 27th. I drove up from Florida and the trip was a straight out of a cheap sci fi movie nightmare from start to finish. But even though I drove all over Toledo and some of the outlying areas I never once saw a cop. Not a one. Once I got back on I75 south that all changed but around Toledo not one LEO to be seen anywhere. Hummm.

posted by Wydowmaker on Jul 06, 2017 at 10:30:45 am     #  

Wydowmaker posted at 11:30:45 AM on Jul 06, 2017:

I have been reading this post since the beginning so when I had to come back home to Toledo a little over a week ago I was very cautious driving. Of course the road conditions automatically heightened my sense of caution (doom) but the strange thing is I was there from Friday night of June 23 and left Tues the 27th. I drove up from Florida and the trip was a straight out of a cheap sci fi movie nightmare from start to finish. But even though I drove all over Toledo and some of the outlying areas I never once saw a cop. Not a one. Once I got back on I75 south that all changed but around Toledo not one LEO to be seen anywhere. Hummm.

In Toledo, you no see cop. Cop see you. ;)

posted by justread on Jul 06, 2017 at 10:53:24 am     #  

http://www.toledoblade.com/local/2017/07/06/Toledo-Police-chief-speeding-refund.html

Updated story. It references one ticket on 2/15, but doesn't say if it's from where the officer supposedly moved 150 feet.

If these tickets occurred in February, when did Ludeman get his reversed? I would assume it would have been within a week of the original incident. Why is this just now coming to light?

I would have loved to see the "oh shit" look on Kral's face when this story broke.

posted by JoeyGee on Jul 06, 2017 at 11:11:54 am     #   5 people liked this

Wydowmaker, I'm sure you passed many cops on the interstate here. You didn't know it because they are well hidden:)

When I was driving home around 7 last night one of the digital billboards that flashes the headlines for blade stories had the headline that said something to the effect "Councilman has police chief fix speeding ticket". I was hoping it would be a good scandal. They should have used a headline that said councilman issued speeding ticket for not speeding or better yet that TPD is issuing tickets for speeding to non-speeders.

posted by jamesteroh on Jul 06, 2017 at 01:40:30 pm     #  

jamesteroh posted at 02:40:30 PM on Jul 06, 2017:

Wydowmaker, I'm sure you passed many cops on the interstate here. You didn't know it because they are well hidden:)

When I was driving home around 7 last night one of the digital billboards that flashes the headlines for blade stories had the headline that said something to the effect "Councilman has police chief fix speeding ticket". I was hoping it would be a good scandal. They should have used a headline that said councilman issued speeding ticket for not speeding or better yet that TPD is issuing tickets for speeding to non-speeders.

That headline was pure 100% click trolling. They knew what they were doing.

posted by justread on Jul 06, 2017 at 01:46:54 pm     #  

justread posted at 02:46:54 PM on Jul 06, 2017:
jamesteroh posted at 02:40:30 PM on Jul 06, 2017:

Wydowmaker, I'm sure you passed many cops on the interstate here. You didn't know it because they are well hidden:)

When I was driving home around 7 last night one of the digital billboards that flashes the headlines for blade stories had the headline that said something to the effect "Councilman has police chief fix speeding ticket". I was hoping it would be a good scandal. They should have used a headline that said councilman issued speeding ticket for not speeding or better yet that TPD is issuing tickets for speeding to non-speeders.

That headline was pure 100% click trolling. They knew what they were doing.

They removed that story by the time I got a ladder and was able to click the link on the billboard, though. Bastards.

posted by JoeyGee on Jul 06, 2017 at 02:13:26 pm     #   1 person liked this

For some reason, those electronic billboards fry my retinas.

posted by jr on Jul 06, 2017 at 02:24:45 pm     #   2 people liked this

jamesteroh

I am sure you are right. I was pretty sure they were around. I was just astonished I never saw a marked vehicle or uniformed officer. Down here in Florida we have the cops in all sort of stealth vehicles. From sports cars to pick up trucks. But only rarely out of the cars. Sometimes though they will stand out on a sidewalk looking like a homeless person or ordinary pedestrian. But never hidden behind objects. I try to obey speed laws. But I was so nervous and jerky after my road trip from hell I kept way low in Toledo.

posted by Wydowmaker on Jul 06, 2017 at 02:27:04 pm     #  

Great. They're going to have to close the pools, take police and firemen off the streets and stop all road repairs just because a few whiny drivers want refunds because they were "obeying the law" or something stupid.

posted by JoeyGee on Jul 06, 2017 at 03:04:56 pm     #   2 people liked this

JoeyGee posted at 03:13:26 PM on Jul 06, 2017:
justread posted at 02:46:54 PM on Jul 06, 2017:
jamesteroh posted at 02:40:30 PM on Jul 06, 2017:

Wydowmaker, I'm sure you passed many cops on the interstate here. You didn't know it because they are well hidden:)

When I was driving home around 7 last night one of the digital billboards that flashes the headlines for blade stories had the headline that said something to the effect "Councilman has police chief fix speeding ticket". I was hoping it would be a good scandal. They should have used a headline that said councilman issued speeding ticket for not speeding or better yet that TPD is issuing tickets for speeding to non-speeders.

That headline was pure 100% click trolling. They knew what they were doing.

They removed that story by the time I got a ladder and was able to click the link on the billboard, though. Bastards.

They actually buy the billboards hoping it will translate into readers who follow the story from the ad. But that was funny. :D

posted by justread on Jul 06, 2017 at 03:40:14 pm     #   2 people liked this

and....to be more accurate...they own the billboard, so they don't even have to pay for the rotation/spot.

posted by Molsonator on Jul 06, 2017 at 08:03:50 pm     #  

"Why is this just now coming to light?"

That's a good question for chief Kral and city councilman Ludeman. Maybe they made a public statement in February, and I missed it.

I conducted a web search, and the only results that I found were related to this week's stories. Nothing from last winter about this issue.

To me, it seems that the only reason this has become public in July is because of the Toledo Blade's reporting.

And now five months later, the magnanimous police chief is offering a refund.

This statement from the police chief is lame:

“This was a case of us being in the wrong place and us owning that we made a mistake and making it right.”

The mistake was made on February 1, and now he's "owning" it on July 6. That ain't making it right.

In my opinion, you don't get to own the mistake when someone else exposes the possible cover-up. You should get saddled with an investigation.

The time to own it and admit to it publicly was last winter before anyone else discovered the problem.

It's a mistake if a police officer accidentally sets up in the wrong location for one morning.

It's not a mistake for Toledo police and city government to hide this error from the public for five months. That's more like malfeasance.

In my opinion, Toledo police/government got caught doing something unethical.

The first sentence from this Apr 17, 2017 Blade editorial about another city issue applies here too.

The words that come to mind are: blatant, sleazy, and shameless.

Toledo police issued 29,615 handheld tickets between January 1 and May 26. Were other mistakes made? Are we to believe that this "mistake" occurred only on one day at one location?

Less suspicion would exist today if the police chief and the councilman went public with the error when they first learned about it. And when was that?

The perceived cover-up is worse than the error. What did they know, and when did they know it? Who else in city government knew about this?


In the Jul 5, 2017 Blade story, note how councilman Ludeman gets a bit prickly at the Blade.

Mr. Ludeman contacted The Blade by email after the newspaper ran a story Sunday about handheld speed cameras that said he and two other councilmen had received such tickets this year. The councilman was upset that the article didn’t say his ticket had been dismissed.

“If you had called me or checked the facts the officer was clocking drivers right at the flashing light before the school zone,” the email said.

Here's another fact. Councilman Ludeman could have made the issue public months ago, but he chose otherwise.

Where's the transparency from city government? This is why we need local journalism.

This was a city councilman going directly to the police chief to have his ticket dismissed. I don't think that option exists for the rest of us who don't know Kral personally.

But why didn't these public servants inform the public last winter about the error? The media should lambaste Kral and Ludeman for failing to serve the public.

We know the date and location of the erroneous speed-clocking: Feb 1, 2017, near the Byrnedale school zone.

  • But when did Ludeman show Kral the ticket?
  • When did Kral order the officer to determine where the school zone existed?
  • How long did the bogus speed trap exist?
  • How many other bogus tickets were issued beyond the 38 known ones?
  • Has this bogus speed trap configuration been used elsewhere in the city?
  • Did Kral and Ludeman intentionally hide this error from the public?
  • Who else in city government knew about this problem?
  • Had Kral planned all along to make the refund statement on July 6, five months later, and the timing of the Blade stories was a massive coincidence?

posted by jr on Jul 06, 2017 at 10:01:40 pm     #   6 people liked this

I was under the impression that the school zone begins at the yellow school signs before the flashing lights. In this case the signs are 300 feet before the lights , so add 2 football fields to the school zone (1 in each direction). I would love to see a copy of his ticket photo to see exactly where he was when it was taken.

posted by OldTimer on Jul 07, 2017 at 04:46:46 am     #  

Franklin started this post on Feb. 10, 2017. That's a lot of shots over the bow that something wasn't just right. We reap what we sow.

posted by Mariner on Jul 07, 2017 at 05:42:48 am     #  

Either the Blade story was updated, or I overlooked the article's headline.

Earlier this week, we learned from the Blade:

  • Thirty-eight people were incorrectly ticketed between 8:51 a.m. and 9:09 a.m. on Feb 1, 2017 at the Byrnedale school zone.
  • Each ticket is a $120 fine.
  • Four tickets were dismissed.
  • 18 people paid their fines in full, including at least one person who paid an additional $20 for a late fee.
  • Toledo government sent "full default" notices to 14 people.
  • One person identified someone else as the driver that morning.
  • One person was suppose to receive a default notice.

I infer that Toledo government knew about this error months ago, yet city government was perfectly fine with stealing money from law-abiding citizens.

Without this week's Blade stories, it appears to me that city government had no intention of ever admitting to this error and offering a refund. Sending default notices to people who did nothing wrong is not owning a mistake.

How is that not criminal activity by city government? But since they make the rules and have the guns, then it's okay. The political thieves (redundant wording) rely on an apathetic citizenry.

City government got caught, and now after getting caught, they want to appear to be honorable. More like fraudulent.

From the updated Blade story:

More than 100 people nailed for speeding in a South Toledo school zone earlier this year will have their fines refunded as the city begins a review of signs at all school zones to avoid more mistakes.

In a few days, the number went from 38 to more than 100. What is the real number of falsely ticketed motorists from all around the city?

Maybe every ticket distributed from a school zone in 2017 should be reviewed and possibly refunded.

100 percent of the blame for this falls on city government, yet the mayor, Ludeman, etc. will all likely get re-elected this fall. Steady as she goes, Chekov.

posted by jr on Jul 07, 2017 at 10:03:06 am     #   4 people liked this

They may have the rules, but truth be told, the citizenry has the guns.

There are around 25,000 police officers in the state of Ohio.

There were more than 25,000 concealed carry permits issued in Ohio in the third quarter of 2016 alone bringing the number of citizens licensed to carry to over 500,000. There are 20 times the number of private citizens licensed to carry than the total estimated number of law enforcement officers in the state.

This is in addition to the more than 4,000,000 Ohioans who own firearms. (Based on 2008 study, inflated by 3% to account for the decade, less 63,000 rounding down to 4M from 4.63M. Also based on 2015 population estimate of 11.61M.)

posted by justread on Jul 07, 2017 at 10:40:32 am     #  

Thirty-eight people were incorrectly ticketed between 8:51 a.m. and 9:09 a.m. on Feb 1, 2017 at the Byrnedale school zone.

38 tickets in an 18 minute time period. That is over two tickets a minute and if they are issuing tickets at the rate over 125 tickets an hour.

It would be interesting to find out how many cars weren't ticketed. I realize this is a school zone but in some areas like Promedica/I-75 where there are no accidents, if more cars are speeding than not then maybe they need to consider increasing the speed limit.

It's obvious they aren't too concerned with a safety incident in these areas if they are allowing 125 cars an hour to speed in the zone without pulling anyone over.

posted by classylady on Jul 07, 2017 at 10:42:06 am     #   1 person liked this

You're also required to go downtown and to court to fight the tickets.

If someone from out of town that lives an hour away gets a wrongfully issued ticket it means spending the gas and time to come to Toledo to fight it and the missed time from work. Pretty good racket.

posted by classylady on Jul 07, 2017 at 10:44:19 am     #   3 people liked this

Toledo police and government give me a whole new sense of respect for Berkey Bob and his infamous Territorial Rd speed trap. At least he stops you and does it the right way.

posted by JoeyGee on Jul 07, 2017 at 11:00:18 am     #   2 people liked this

Oops, not Territorial. Whatever road the main drag of Berkey is.

posted by JoeyGee on Jul 07, 2017 at 11:01:22 am     #  

How awful that the City is only now reviewing School Zones in order to make sure that the high-dollar tickets they issue are warranted.

It's surprising to me that the officers involved in shooting these pics were apparently unaware of the boundaries of the school zones that they were so rigorously enforcing. It's disgusting to me that the supervisors didn't train the rank and file better OR at least give them specific directions on how and where to use the portable cameras.

I recalled reading that the police reviewed each photo to ensure that a violation actually took place. Here's the quote and the link to the Blade article:

Toledo and Northwood both contracted with a for-profit company, Redflex, which bears the cost of installing and maintaining the cameras and film. Police in each city review all citations and the film before tickets are mailed.

http://www.toledoblade.com/frontpage/2005/06/19/Some-drivers-fume-see-red-over-cameras.html

Granted this was a while ago, long before the City deployed it's latest portable affront to its citizenry, but TPD used to review each violation. Either this review process has gone away or it is completely lame.

Now we are asked to believe that the only time fines for School Zone violations were ever improper was for 18 minutes during one morning in February????? That sounds like bullshit to me.

posted by jimavolt on Jul 07, 2017 at 11:30:50 am     #   3 people liked this

Yeah and what the hell is with the gov. and 18mins. And where is Rose Mary Woods when you need her foot on the button.

posted by Mariner on Jul 07, 2017 at 12:00:49 pm     #  

JoeyGee posted at 12:00:18 PM on Jul 07, 2017:

Toledo police and government give me a whole new sense of respect for Berkey Bob and his infamous Territorial Rd speed trap. At least he stops you and does it the right way.

A couple years ago, the Toledo Blade ranted about Woodville's proclivity to dole out speeding tickets.

  • February 2015 - Toledo Blade - Featured Editorial - Ticket trap


But were some of Woodville's tickets given to motorists who obeyed the law like in Toledo? And did Woodville's government attempt to hide the error like in Toledo?

The February 2015 Blade featured editorial even called for a boycott of Woodville's businesses.

The Village of Woodville has abused northwest Ohio motorists for far too long with its blatant use of speed traps. If a boycott of the town’s businesses is needed finally to get the attention of its public officials, so be it.


This week's news stories by the Blade were good, but will the Blade editorial board pound Toledo government for its abuse the way the board did, regarding Woodville?

And what does the Blade editorial board think about Toledo's traffic enforcement cameras? Here are two opinions from 2015.


Here is what the Blade editorial board believed in 2015:

... in Toledo, where the cameras have been used responsibly to enforce traffic laws in high-risk areas.

Most communities that use cameras, including Toledo, do so for valid law-enforcement purposes.

If Toledo is engaging in the cash grab ... [ If ?? ]

Toledo, which raises millions of dollars from camera citations each year, must be particularly careful not to become dependent on the cameras for revenue.

Hah. Too late for that.


Excerpts from justread's February 2015 comment :

Had to chuckle when a newspaper that defends automated speed and red light traps in Toledo goes after Woodville that writes an average of 3.2 tickets per day. The people in Woodville are like, yeah... and your roads suck too.


2015, that's long before the high use of the handheld cameras in Toledo.

Has the Blade editorial board's opinion changed? I don't think so.

But aside from any who are ticketed by mistake — who can dispute the tickets — these are people who violated the traffic laws. If they did not want to pay traffic tickets, they should not have earned them.

Teaching drivers to expect traffic cameras, even when they can’t see them, could improve their behavior on all the roads.

And those who don’t learn can pay more toward government services, so that law-abiding citizens can pay less.

Unless the cameras are used in Toledo, Ohio where it's possible for law-abiding citizens to be ticketed.

posted by jr on Jul 07, 2017 at 12:10:27 pm     #   1 person liked this

Is the company that gets a cut on each ticket refunding their portion too or is the City saying they will refund the whole amount ? I believe it is $30 per ticket that has to come from one or the other

posted by Hoops on Jul 07, 2017 at 12:55:00 pm     #  

I took advantage of this beautiful weather and went for a long bike ride this morning and there was a speed cop on Lagrange the Green Belt parkway on the east side of the street getting cars going north on the Parkway.

I did some biking for about an hour after the trail ended and decided to take the trail back and there was a cop in a van at Cherry and Greenbelt but couldn't tell if he was taking pictures or not and the same cop was still on LaGrange. It pissed me off on the way back because a car came close to hitting me by attempting to make a rolling turn on red at Lagrange and came close to hitting me. He almost caused me go wipe out because he did stop but was in the crosswalk which runs parallel with the trail and I had to swerve to miss him. If the cops are so damn concerned with safety the cop should have pulled him over but I guess he wouldn't make nearly as much money for the city by pulling over a driver that is creating a true safety situation as he would with the 100 speeding tickets he could give in that time period pulling that driver over and ticketing them.

I really wish I would have had a go pro camera on my helmet and could have sent it to the clowns at one Government center.

posted by jamesteroh on Jul 08, 2017 at 03:11:49 pm     #  

I hope the cop at the section 8 apartment complex at Cherry and the Parkway wasn't speedtrapping. That would be really crappy of the city to give motorists who were speeding on the parkway two tickets being less than a mile apart

posted by jamesteroh on Jul 08, 2017 at 03:12:54 pm     #  

The Greenbelt parkway must be a very dangerous roadway on a sunny clear dry Saturday afternoon.

posted by JohnnyMac on Jul 08, 2017 at 08:41:05 pm     #  

The conditions were very dangerous when I was biking. Was around 10:30 and 72 and sunny and dry. On the return trip back was even more dangerous it had to be a degree or two hotter by then

I was surprised they were speed trapping since traffic was pretty light but I'm sure every car was speeding. They are usually just before the i75 entrance so he must have decided to move a little south today from their usual spot.

posted by jamesteroh on Jul 08, 2017 at 09:24:53 pm     #  

Sun, Jul 9, 2017 - Toledo Blade editorial - Councilman calling to get speeding ticket “fixed” looks bad because it is bad


This part of the editorial, however, is bad:

And to his credit, Toledo Police Chief George Kral has said the city will refund the fines of others ticketed along with the Ludemans that day.

Nope. No credit for the chief who apparently hid this error from the public for months.


Other parts of the editorial were well-written:

A Toledo city councilman calling the police chief to get speeding tickets for himself and his wife “fixed” looks bad because it is bad.

But if the city is making a habit of wrongly citing innocent drivers because they know those drivers are unlikely to fight the tickets, that’s worse.

... the city is apparently stooping to send a tax collector with a speed gun in his hand out onto the streets of the city, mostly in order to raise funds for the city.

Somebody made that call, and it was not an individual cop.

"A tax collector with a speed gun in his hand." Valid description.

And that's a good place for an investigation. Did someone higher-up in the police department make that decision, or, as I believe, did the decision come from the mayor's office?

That section of the editorial indicates a slight change in the editorial board's thinking, regarding these so-called safety cameras. I infer that this one editorial writer seems to be admitting that Toledo's use of the handheld cameras is for a money-grab.


More from the editorial:

Meanwhile, the lowly everyday citizen feels he must pay the ticket from one of these encounters, rightly accused or not. The average Joe has to go through the hearing process set up for such citations. He probably has to take time off work for that.

So, considering all those factors he most likely will simply pay the fine, especially if he lives out of town. And evidence has shown that more than half of such tickets are issued to out-of-towners.

The privileged person can apparently just make a call to the right person.

And in my opinion, that privileged person, councilman Rob Ludeman, participated in the alleged cover-up to hide the error from the public.

Ludeman, like other privileged dead weight, needs bounced from council this fall by the voters. And if the voters replace mayor Hicks-Hudson this fall, then we might have a new police chief next year.

The citizens have some power to make decisions.


More from the editorial:

Every community has its powerful cliques of movers and shakers, but the sense of entitlement for those people in Toledo seems especially brazen.

Toledo’s handheld speed cameras really could be used to make the city safer. They could be deployed to construction zones or to residential streets where police have received complaints about speeding.

Fuckin' A.

But that is evidently not how Toledo is using them.

Moreover, these tickets are the source of some of Toledo’s magically appearing piles of found money this summer.


Here's the good closing from the editorial writer, and hopefully, the Toledo Blade hounds the city for answers. The Blade is most likely the only local media org that is capable of making city government nervous.

From the editorial:

Here is the question:

Did the ticket revenue exceed expectations because officers have been directed to nab drivers who are not actually speeding?

Fair play and the city’s good name are at risk.


An investigation could reveal that the practice of ticketing people who obeyed the law was not an isolated incident. An investigation could reveal who made the decision to place tax collectors with speed guns along Toledo roadways. An investigation could reveal who all knew about the one known error, and why it was hidden from the public for so long.

posted by jr on Jul 09, 2017 at 12:28:13 pm     #   3 people liked this

Saw two more today in the downtown area when I was out biking.

When I exited the bike trail on Greenbelt parkway near the I-280 entrance there was one back in his usual spot just south of the I-280 entrance getting people going northbound on Greenbelt.

Biking down summit I saw one in a new place. He was at the old Andres bar parking entrance and it looked like he was getting people going northbound on Summit. At least this time it was doubtful any motorist speeding would have encountered both cops.

Perfect biking weather this morning, low 70s, light breeze, clear disability, dry pavement. I guess the safety conditions for motorists were different than those for bikers this morning:)

posted by jamesteroh on Jul 09, 2017 at 01:07:16 pm     #  

http://www.toledoblade.com/Police-Fire/2017/07/20/Toledo-motorists-receive-refunds-for-improper-speeding-tickets.html

Sounds like a very expensive CYA. I hope the Blade keeps digging on this. They have TPD very nervous and that's how things are supposed to work. Public entities her act with impunity because they believe no one is watching.

Now these refunded tickets are actually COSTING tax dollars since they can't get refunds for the cut sent to the private company behind this sham. Ok it's just eating into the ill gotten profits of "safety", but still...

posted by JoeyGee on Jul 20, 2017 at 10:15:58 am     #   2 people liked this

Makes me wonder how many other tickets have been issued in error and not refunded.

When I go biking I'm seeing a cop at Lagrange and the Greenbelt Parkway more times than not

posted by jamesteroh on Jul 20, 2017 at 12:43:26 pm     #   1 person liked this

Same cop on 475 near ProMedica today at 8 am. He hadn't been there for a few days.

posted by JohnnyMac on Jul 21, 2017 at 07:28:14 am     #  

http://www.toledoblade.com/State/2017/07/26/Ohio-s-high-court-strikes-down-traffic-camera-restrictions.html

Looks like both the speed and red light cameras are here to stay.

posted by JoeyGee on Jul 26, 2017 at 12:17:39 pm     #  

JoeyGee posted at 01:17:39 PM on Jul 26, 2017:

http://www.toledoblade.com/State/2017/07/26/Ohio-s-high-court-strikes-down-traffic-camera-restrictions.html

Looks like both the speed and red light cameras are here to stay.

Time to turn our attention to the politicians that won't let us vote on this... and vote on them.

posted by justread on Jul 26, 2017 at 12:27:11 pm     #   5 people liked this

I'll leave it to JR and his awesome election turnout numbers breakdown for the real numbers, but the approximate 30% of voters won't care/are too old to drive/vote as the union tells them to, etc.

Voter apathy rules in Toledo, where the motto is "We'll forget in November!"

posted by JoeyGee on Jul 26, 2017 at 01:09:06 pm     #   1 person liked this

The Ohio Supreme Court missed an opportunity to right a wrong with their decision on traffic enforcement. To label this practice as a safety issue ignores the larger element of revenue enhancement at its core. This use of law officers is reminiscent of the Kings of olde in Great Britain posting the soldiers on the highways to collect a use tax from every traveler in the kingdom. If a significant statistical inference could be shown to saving lives then it would be another matter. The primary purpose appears to be to fatten the coffers of government while having the secondary effect of adding fear, trepidation upon the motoring public who never know when the finger of fate is pointed at them. Under present practices it does nothing to remove chronic offenders from the roadways since no points are imposed upon the offender. The courts decision lacked objectivity for what might improve safety. A more reasoned decision can be made at the ballot box since all those learned seats are elected not anointed.

posted by Mariner on Jul 27, 2017 at 06:33:41 am     #   4 people liked this

Mariner brings up a great point. Where is the data showing that the red light cameras have reduced accidents? I would assume if there was actual data showing a drop in accidents at intersections with cameras, the city would be crowing about that and looking to add them at every intersection.

That or we're just at the point of apathy that the city can freely approach this as a revenue device without the guise of safety?

posted by JoeyGee on Jul 27, 2017 at 08:41:22 am     #   1 person liked this

Where is the data showing that the red light cameras have reduced accidents?

I don't really care about this, although I have seen the statistics and they were a marked increase in rear-enders and a decrease in fatal T-bones. I care about being able to vote. If the majority of voters want to put up with this crap out of fiscal desperation, so be it. Those who do not, can make that choice and find freedom-minded people elsewhere. If Toledo doesn't value representation, there are communities who do. My problem with this has always been that it is the kind of issue the citizens should have a voice in, and they don't.

posted by justread on Jul 27, 2017 at 08:56:00 am     #   6 people liked this

I've read in some cities the cameras actually cause accidents. Motorist will see a light changing to yellow and get nervous and just slam on the breaks.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/red-light-camera-backlash-cameras-causing-accidents/story?id=13925887

What I truly want to see is data showing how those speed cameras used by TPD have reduced accidents. Seeing there seems to be TPD officers with those cameras more times than not at Promedica/475 and the Greenbelt Pkwy/I-75, have the number of accidents decreased? I never recalled seeing an accident at most places I've seen cops with the cameras.

posted by classylady on Jul 27, 2017 at 11:17:32 am     #   1 person liked this

Revenue from handheld speed camera citations was at $2,224,276 on June 31 — nearly reaching the $2.3 million the city expected to collect with through the end of the year, the city’s monthly finance report said.

Grabbing that Copperazzi camera money twice as fast as expected. Hat's off to the brave men and women of TPD hiding in the shadows producing all that revenue. Meter maids never produced like this.

posted by justread on Jul 27, 2017 at 02:23:18 pm     #   1 person liked this

"There is, of course, always some risk that innocent drivers will be caught up in the scheme," extracted from Blade editorial today which endorsed the fixed traffic camera system decision by Ohio Supreme Court. This remains the meat of the matter. Americans have had a belly full of schemes.

posted by Mariner on Jul 28, 2017 at 07:58:23 am     #  

Recent PR campaign by TPD citing the use of fixed cameras lowering the accident rate at intersections overlooks the negative side of the unpopular, intrusive technology. When you're hungry you go where the food is. When you sense danger you vacate the area unless you are the biggest beast out there. It was observable in the final days of the old Party in the Park events that there were more Deputy Sheriffs and TPD at the occasions than citizens. All on the clock. It is easy to forsee a time when there will be more law enforcement on the streets than private cars. That should surely lower if not eliminate accidents but will not answer the question of where has everyone gone and why. If the design is to exclude the bad eggs, which we don't need anyway, there is that old thing about throwing out the baby with the bath water. Whose going to pay for the fuel for all those radio motor patrols out on the deserted streets.

posted by Mariner on Aug 09, 2017 at 07:29:43 am     #   1 person liked this

Can anyone recall if any local groups in the past have taken out a petition for a ballot initiative on red light camera issue?
Looks like voters in a few cities have done that and were successful
in getting the cameras removed.

Chillicothe Red-Light and Speed Camera Referendum, 2009
https://ballotpedia.org/Chillicothe_Red-Light_and_Speed_Camera_Referendum,_2009

Red Light Cameras Routed at Ballot Box
https://www.thenewspaper.com/news/33/3311.asp

We all bitch about this money grab and getting enough signatures for a petition seems like it would be an easy task.

posted by User436 on Aug 10, 2017 at 04:17:50 pm     #   1 person liked this

That's the ticket. Pun intended.

posted by Mariner on Aug 10, 2017 at 06:21:58 pm     #  

Good morning. I was driving west bound on 475 yesterday morning at approx. 10:20. I seen a Ohio patrol State Trooper in their silver car sitting at the Douglas Road exit. I could of sworn he had a camera/radar device up to his face pointing at traffic. Is this possible? Come to think of it must of just been a speed detector.
They wouldn't be taken pics to. Or would they?

posted by reggie on Aug 12, 2017 at 08:59:18 am     #  

The next step will be to activate the Ohio National Guard and finally this outgoing mayor's office would make several companies of U.S. Marine Corps welcome to solve this dire problem.

posted by Mariner on Aug 12, 2017 at 09:48:34 am     #  

reggie posted at 09:59:18 AM on Aug 12, 2017:

Good morning. I was driving west bound on 475 yesterday morning at approx. 10:20. I seen a Ohio patrol State Trooper in their silver car sitting at the Douglas Road exit. I could of sworn he had a camera/radar device up to his face pointing at traffic. Is this possible? Come to think of it must of just been a speed detector.
They wouldn't be taken pics to. Or would they?

That was laser/radar. If you were too fast, there would be contact. This is the OSHP. They know traffic stops lead to bigger things. They don't want to skip that part.

posted by justread on Aug 12, 2017 at 02:04:22 pm     #   1 person liked this

justread posted at 03:04:22 PM on Aug 12, 2017:
reggie posted at 09:59:18 AM on Aug 12, 2017:

Good morning. I was driving west bound on 475 yesterday morning at approx. 10:20. I seen a Ohio patrol State Trooper in their silver car sitting at the Douglas Road exit. I could of sworn he had a camera/radar device up to his face pointing at traffic. Is this possible? Come to think of it must of just been a speed detector.
They wouldn't be taken pics to. Or would they?

That was laser/radar. If you were too fast, there would be contact. This is the OSHP. They know traffic stops lead to bigger things. They don't want to skip that part.

Justread, can't you do something about these cops on our streets and highways trying to get money out of us all the time. Can't you make some phone calls to somebody? You have a lot of pull in this town.
Please do something about this. I can't daydream no more while driving. I have to be scouring the road and bushes for camera cops all the time now. Very stressful.

posted by reggie on Aug 13, 2017 at 08:01:20 am     #  

The cure has superseded the illness. Attend 6-8 Monday the 14th Health and Human Services Bldg. University of Toledo 2025 North Towerview Blvd. put on by the Governor's Ohio Collaborative Community Police Advisory Board and your voice too can be heard my friend.

posted by Mariner on Aug 13, 2017 at 08:27:29 am     #  

reggie posted at 09:01:20 AM on Aug 13, 2017:
justread posted at 03:04:22 PM on Aug 12, 2017:
reggie posted at 09:59:18 AM on Aug 12, 2017:

Good morning. I was driving west bound on 475 yesterday morning at approx. 10:20. I seen a Ohio patrol State Trooper in their silver car sitting at the Douglas Road exit. I could of sworn he had a camera/radar device up to his face pointing at traffic. Is this possible? Come to think of it must of just been a speed detector.
They wouldn't be taken pics to. Or would they?

That was laser/radar. If you were too fast, there would be contact. This is the OSHP. They know traffic stops lead to bigger things. They don't want to skip that part.

Justread, can't you do something about these cops on our streets and highways trying to get money out of us all the time. Can't you make some phone calls to somebody? You have a lot of pull in this town.
Please do something about this. I can't daydream no more while driving. I have to be scouring the road and bushes for camera cops all the time now. Very stressful.

I called them and they said you overestimate my pull and underestimate their power. Then they said "vote democrat" before they hung up. Sorry. I tried.

posted by justread on Aug 13, 2017 at 04:56:24 pm     #  

The cops have a new place to catch you. On northbound 75 at the curve for the 475 split. You come around the curve and you are entering the construction zone, and the speed drops suddenly to 50 MPH and he is standing behind the barrels to nab you before you even have time to realize the speed limit has dropped. Will get lots of out of towners who don't know about the construction zone. A real slimy place to sit.

posted by OldTimer on Oct 23, 2017 at 10:38:31 am     #  

That is very slimy. And the fines are double in a construction zone.

I took my boyfriend to DTW airport a couple weeks ago and going the short distance between downtown to the state line WAZE alerted me to two or three cops (there was one at Greenbelt Parkway and LaGrange) and another one on I-75 near Alexis and there may have been a third) and only one alert in Michigan driving on three interstates and it was on I-75 by Monroe and a cop was visible and had someone pulled over.

Coming back not one alert in Michigan (which is unusual) but two going back to my office downtown, one was at the same spot on LaGrange and the Greenbelt parkway and another one where the I-280 split is where they changed lanes around a couple months and it gets confussing.

posted by classylady on Oct 23, 2017 at 11:35:46 am     #  

So even with all the newfound mystery money found which Lindsey Webb (when is her term limit up oh please, oh please) now wants to spend on pools and parks, not road repair, the Queen's soldiers are still out collecting tolls and highway gratuities from the kingdom from the serfs. Damn she has to know she's already lost the throne and it would be ok to show some heart.

posted by Mariner on Oct 23, 2017 at 01:23:09 pm     #  

Mariner posted at 02:23:09 PM on Oct 23, 2017:

So even with all the newfound mystery money found which Lindsey Webb (when is her term limit up oh please, oh please) now wants to spend on pools and parks, not road repair, the Queen's soldiers are still out collecting tolls and highway gratuities from the kingdom from the serfs. Damn she has to know she's already lost the throne and it would be ok to show some heart.

Lindsey Webb might be too busy defending and acting as a character witness for convicted wife beater Jeremy Bumhower.

posted by reggie on Oct 24, 2017 at 04:10:12 am     #   6 people liked this

Twice in the last four weeks, between 3:00 and 3:30 pm, in front of St. Patrick of Heatherdowns, I have witnessed a police officer with a radar gun out, but the radar gun was being held by an elementary aged school student. The office was standing next to the student, but the radar gun was being held by the student and pointed at the oncoming traffic. Can this possibly be legal?

posted by mjcozy on Oct 25, 2017 at 08:48:16 pm     #  

mjcozy posted at 09:48:16 PM on Oct 25, 2017:

Twice in the last four weeks, between 3:00 and 3:30 pm, in front of St. Patrick of Heatherdowns, I have witnessed a police officer with a radar gun out, but the radar gun was being held by an elementary aged school student. The office was standing next to the student, but the radar gun was being held by the student and pointed at the oncoming traffic. Can this possibly be legal?

Which part? The radar gun, the student holding the radar gun or the school zone?

While I believe the first two are illegal, the third one isn't. It's very, very stupid, given the history of the radar gun school zone speed trap and TPD, but they wouldn't be stupid enough to ticket legal drivers again, would they? Well...

posted by JoeyGee on Oct 26, 2017 at 08:23:18 am     #   1 person liked this

Don't get too excited about Queen Webb's term ending. She'll do what they all do - run for and get elected to some other position in local gumt. After all, she does have a big, fat "D" after her name.

In this region, that's pretty much the only qualification necessary to remain in public office for as long as you choose. Wade (aka "Skippy") comes to mind................

posted by Foodie on Oct 26, 2017 at 08:42:08 am     #  

I would think that having anyone other than the police officer holding the radar gun would be enough to get the ticket voided. It should get the officer in hot water as well.

So not only do TPS have the luxury of just taking pics of cars passing by and don't have to pull people over to issue tickets they are too damn lazy to even hold the radar gun?

If an officer is speed trapping in a School Zone (where I believe speeding is truly a safety hazard in many cases if there are a lot of elementary kids who walk home from school) the officer should be truly promoting safety and be visible and have speeders pulled over so other motorists will slow down. It isn't making motorists slow down or promoting safety by having a school kid aim a radar gun at cars. But well know this is about being a cash cow for the city, not promoting safety.

posted by classylady on Oct 26, 2017 at 11:30:07 am     #   1 person liked this

If PH2 gets reelected I'm sure she'll create a position for Ms. Webb at either one Government center or the water department with a six figure salary.

posted by classylady on Oct 26, 2017 at 11:31:43 am     #   1 person liked this

classylady posted at 12:31:43 PM on Oct 26, 2017:

If PH2 gets reelected I'm sure she'll create a position for Ms. Webb at either one Government center or the water department with a six figure salary.

PH2 will look out for Lindsey after she looks out for District 4 Harper.

posted by justread on Oct 26, 2017 at 12:07:51 pm     #   1 person liked this

classylady posted at 12:30:07 PM on Oct 26, 2017:

I would think that having anyone other than the police officer holding the radar gun would be enough to get the ticket voided. It should get the officer in hot water as well.

So not only do TPS have the luxury of just taking pics of cars passing by and don't have to pull people over to issue tickets they are too damn lazy to even hold the radar gun?

If an officer is speed trapping in a School Zone (where I believe speeding is truly a safety hazard in many cases if there are a lot of elementary kids who walk home from school) the officer should be truly promoting safety and be visible and have speeders pulled over so other motorists will slow down. It isn't making motorists slow down or promoting safety by having a school kid aim a radar gun at cars. But well know this is about being a cash cow for the city, not promoting safety.

We have no idea whether any tickets were generated as a result if the kid holding the radar gun, but I am pretty sure that the cop as expert witness is the key to that one. I mean, a steel pole is qualified to have custody and control of a radar gun. The sticking point legislatively seems to have only been the presence of an officer.
Besides... Hot Wheels sells a child radar gun for $99.

TPS owns no speed ticketing equipment. TPD does. When I was a child, I encountered a cop doing radar (car mounted) and they were generally encouraged to interact positively with children. It was a positive experience. One that made me favorable to cops until just recently when I learned they were ALL evil monsters.

How is it not promoting safety by teaching children about traffic laws and their enforcement?

I'm not prepared to bitch about the opportunity cost in ticket revenue expressed in dollars of a cop doing what looks like community policing.

posted by justread on Oct 26, 2017 at 12:16:03 pm     #  

When I was in elementary school they had sixth graders who would volunteer as crossing guards at some of the intersections that didn't have a lot of traffic. Maybe this could be a cost cutting move for TPD, instead of having student crossing guards give students a radar photo gun to get pictures of speeding cars after school.

posted by jamesteroh on Oct 26, 2017 at 01:57:27 pm     #  

jamesteroh posted at 02:57:27 PM on Oct 26, 2017:

When I was in elementary school they had sixth graders who would volunteer as crossing guards at some of the intersections that didn't have a lot of traffic. Maybe this could be a cost cutting move for TPD, instead of having student crossing guards give students a radar photo gun to get pictures of speeding cars after school.

Heck yeah! I was an elementary school "safety" as we called them. It was considered an honor back in the day.

posted by Foodie on Oct 26, 2017 at 02:31:30 pm     #  

Crossing guard is how they groom future cops. They almost got me.

posted by justread on Oct 26, 2017 at 06:35:47 pm     #   1 person liked this

So, my wife received an automated speeding ticket from a handheld device today. I do have a question. It was going SB on N.Detroit Ave between Central Ave and Glenwood Ave. which happens to be in a school zone. The ticket said the speed limit there is 20mph (probably is, with the school zone and all at 8:20am).

What if the officer is located in the school zone but getting cars that are coming into the school zone but not fully into the zone yet? She was driving 36 mph (reg speed limit is 35) I think I can judge by the video where she was exactly located and it is just barely before the school zone when he gets the speed. Thoughts?

I can show the video if it would help. Just wondering if I would have a case or not. (I thought TPD went through this exact thing this summer?)

posted by WestToledoan on Oct 28, 2017 at 08:59:46 pm     #  

I just hope all this "extra revenue " from these great inventions goes towards either fixing the roads or something that benefits the people that are getting money taken away from them...

I still feel that this does not fix the original problem, and definitely does not fix the safety end of it..

Picture this..
You look in your rear view mirror and see a police officer a few cars back or spot one on the side of the road. Your blood pressure and fear of getting "pulled over" is all this is on your mind.

The police officer is now behind you and now you are pretty nervous. Your getting anxious now.. The lights go on , damn it!!
Now you are embarrassed, from the lights and sirens, your pulse is high and probably are either mad, nervous, scared... The police officer comes up, asks for your licence and registration and car insurance..."this is where the safety aspect is really, because at this point you could be a felon, a car thief that is on the run, have outstanding warrants, etc.etc.etc. ". The police officer now can explain to you why he is pulling you over, " the real way to be corrective in nature, not with a mailed ticket!" The police officer can now help determine if you need a ticket, a warning, check for out of place things" maybe you were having a medical issue, could be a million things that he could possibly help with, fix , whatever. "

Back to the meat and potatoes of this whole racket/ money making scheme...
A mailed ticket really didn't effect you quite like being pulled over.. It's all about money, that is it.

Why not stand outside bars, park down the street from bars, and issue DUI's..
I mean speed and alcohol do not mix well.

Alcohol kills way more than speeding does...

posted by FranklinT on Nov 01, 2017 at 10:58:22 am     #  

I definitely got zapped at the 75-475 north split! Is it 50 on both roads or just 475?

posted by upso on Nov 01, 2017 at 05:56:00 pm     #  

Not quite sure of which way you are talking about. There is no construction zones on 475 right now, just I75 and the ramps to it. Did you get zapped at the spot I talked about on Oct 23, 2017 at 11:38:31 am

posted by OldTimer on Nov 01, 2017 at 06:10:03 pm     #  

I have a couple questions -

Does a school zone begin at the flashing lights?

If the officer clocked you about 25-35 feet before the school zone is it speeding? I dont know if the cameras continuous clock or only clock you once (at the start). He had to get my back license plate because I do not have a front license plate on my car, so the video actually shows me going into the school zone.

I thought school and construction zone fines were double?

posted by WestToledoan on Nov 01, 2017 at 07:28:35 pm     #  

OldTimer posted at 07:10:03 PM on Nov 01, 2017:

Not quite sure of which way you are talking about. There is no construction zones on 475 right now, just I75 and the ramps to it. Did you get zapped at the spot I talked about on Oct 23, 2017 at 11:38:31 am

the officer was on the right side of the 475/75 split, going north, right where the split happens. I know there are 50MPH signs on the left side of 75 before the split happens, but not sure it applies going north after the split. cop very clearly was zapping my plate, and i was definitely going closer to 60-65

posted by upso on Nov 01, 2017 at 07:40:12 pm     #  

First I need to learn how to copy and paste previous comments, but anyway still confused. 475 is east or west bound and 75 is north or south. If your NB than you are on 75. My daughter got her ticket today for the NB split on 75 at 473 WB that I talked about onOct.23rd, 63 in a 50 zone. Fines are not doubled for the construction zone because the camera tickets are a civil fine not a traffic (no points) fine.

posted by OldTimer on Nov 01, 2017 at 09:02:18 pm     #  

Sorry, going northbound on 75 and continuing on 75 at the 475 W split, the cop was to the right of the split.

posted by upso on Nov 01, 2017 at 09:46:22 pm     #  

posted by OldTimer on Oct 23, 2017 at 11:38:31 am
The cops have a new place to catch you. On northbound 75 at the curve for the 475 split. You come around the curve and you are entering the construction zone, and the speed drops suddenly to 50 MPH and he is standing behind the barrels to nab you before you even have time to realize the speed limit has dropped. Will get lots of out of towners who don't know about the construction zone. A real slimy place to sit.
So this place, I warned you. Now time to figure out this quoting thing

posted by OldTimer on Nov 02, 2017 at 07:19:38 am     #  

Attention on deck: TPD mining for gold SW Tol Detroit Ave at Byrnedale school hand held radar 2nd time this week. Caution between Glanzman and Sherman navigational hazard present. That is all.

posted by Mariner on Nov 16, 2017 at 08:26:49 am     #  

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