Toledo Talk

Toledo Express to Charlotte Just Announced

http://www.wtol.com/story/35162398/new-air-service-route-coming-to-toledo-express-airport

Starts in August.

created by Xbuckeyex on Apr 17, 2017 at 09:18:25 am     Comments: 47

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With one stop service to the Atlantic seaboard, this might be enough for me to drop Delta, along with my diamond status, and fly out of Toledo next year. Glad to see TOL expanding

posted by odnation on Apr 17, 2017 at 09:44:21 am     #  

Yay!!

posted by wahhutch9 on Apr 17, 2017 at 10:20:38 am     #  

wahhutch9 posted at 11:20:38 AM on Apr 17, 2017:

Yay!!

So I now take that back. I was excited to have easy access to CLT for international routes. I'd love to go out of TOL and save a drive to DTW for this.

Unfortunately, I did random Saturday-Saturday searches from TOL to Aruba, Bahamas, and Cancun and couldn't find a single ticket under $800.... those were November-March travel dates.

I wonder how long this CLT route will last before it gets cancelled? Maybe the domestic options from TOL through CLT are cheaper.

$800+ to Caribbean is insane to me.

posted by wahhutch9 on Apr 17, 2017 at 11:59:55 am     #  

Something else to keep in mind on international flights is you have to deal with a connection as well as passport control/customs on the way back. One nice thing about DTW on a lot of international flights is that they are non-stops and you don't have to worry about missing a connection if your first flight is late. When I step off the plane from a long international flight I just want to go home. Last thing I'd want is to find out I won't make it out that night because I missed the last flight of the night due to a long line at passport control or find out my connection back home is delayed three hours or cancelled. Same with going on an international flight.

This is good news for local American Airline frequent flyers though having service to two of their biggest hubs. I wish we could get flights to DC and/or NYC.

posted by classylady on Apr 17, 2017 at 12:44:35 pm     #  

classylady posted at 01:44:35 PM on Apr 17, 2017:

Something else to keep in mind on international flights is you have to deal with a connection as well as passport control/customs on the way back. One nice thing about DTW on a lot of international flights is that they are non-stops and you don't have to worry about missing a connection if your first flight is late. When I step off the plane from a long international flight I just want to go home. Last thing I'd want is to find out I won't make it out that night because I missed the last flight of the night due to a long line at passport control or find out my connection back home is delayed three hours or cancelled. Same with going on an international flight.

This is good news for local American Airline frequent flyers though having service to two of their biggest hubs. I wish we could get flights to DC and/or NYC.

I've had minimal luck finding Bahamas and Aruba nonstop out of DTW. The nice thing about Aruba is you go through the US Customs process in AUA before you head back to the State.

Fortunately, there are plenty of nonstop options to Cancun out of DTW.

I agree with what you're saying, though.

posted by wahhutch9 on Apr 17, 2017 at 12:52:03 pm     #  

Fares that long out aren't that terribly accurate...They haven't been totally loaded yet for all markets and they should mirror close to what AA charges out of DTW through CLT. CLT customs is much better than MIA customs and with the late flight back, most international connections are 2+ hours through CLT coming back. Last thing I want to do when I get off of a plane is a long walk to my car and over an hour drive back home. I will take my 15 minute drive and pay $100 more any day.

If you're just going to CLT, I already have a $262 round trip booked.

posted by avinsurer on Apr 17, 2017 at 01:07:11 pm     #  

avinsurer posted at 02:07:11 PM on Apr 17, 2017:

Fares that long out aren't that terribly accurate...They haven't been totally loaded yet for all markets and they should mirror close to what AA charges out of DTW through CLT. CLT customs is much better than MIA customs and with the late flight back, most international connections are 2+ hours through CLT coming back. Last thing I want to do when I get off of a plane is a long walk to my car and over an hour drive back home. I will take my 15 minute drive and pay $100 more any day.

If you're just going to CLT, I already have a $262 round trip booked.

Good to know... thanks!

posted by wahhutch9 on Apr 17, 2017 at 01:35:11 pm     #  

DTW is only about 15 minutes further from downtown than Toledo express is.

At one time Toledo was offering free parking if you were flying international but that was a few years ago and still not the case.

If anyone has Delta Diamond status it would still make sense to drive to DTW and use Delta. They would have lounge access and could use a GU certificate on the flight to upgrade to business class for free (believe me business class makes a huge difference on a long haul having the flat bed seating on a long flight).

Uber also provides service to DTW if you don't want to park and Metrocars is only around $85 each way if it's a long haul. Last time I flew out of Toledo it was convenient but only Childers was allowed to pick up there, the local cab companies were banned. Not sure if Uber and Lyft can pick up at Toledo or if a car service monopoly has them banned like a taxi. I'd think they could pick up since they are a ride sharing service though and not a livery car company

posted by jamesteroh on Apr 17, 2017 at 01:46:29 pm     #  

This is great news!

posted by clt212 on Apr 18, 2017 at 08:50:34 am     #  

ohh... I was hoping this would be DC as well ! Any additional flight is good and Charlotte does open some nice options.

posted by enjoyeverysandwich on Apr 18, 2017 at 08:58:27 am     #  

I routinely make it to DTW in 45 minutes from my place in P-Burg. 75 to 275 to 94. Sorry, but I just don't see the point trying to make Toledo Express a viable passenger airport. In a perfect world, sure. But I think it's far more realistic to court and give airfield rights to another major cargo carrier to compliment the National Guard operations.

posted by SavageFred on Apr 18, 2017 at 09:30:13 am     #  

58 miles in 45 minutes ... with the first 18 miles at 65/55/65 mph... with construction through toledo and monroe... i am calling BS on that... also time from parking spot through security to gate counts. i dont disagree that dtw is easy but come on... and michigan state hiway patrol is cracking down tighter so days of 85 mph are over.

posted by enjoyeverysandwich on Apr 18, 2017 at 12:59:15 pm     #  

I don't always fly first class, but when I do, I fly first class on an ERJ-145.

posted by justread on Apr 18, 2017 at 01:22:55 pm     #   3 people liked this

^^ Glad I'm not the only one who thought that.

For those of you who think Toledo Express should be a cargo airport need a reality check. The Port just leased the former BAX facility to an aviation ground support equipment manufacturing company. There is a former facility at Dayton International that hasn't seen an air cargo operator since 2001 and Wilmington Airpark is to become a ghost town again when Amazon finishes up it's huge ass facility in Cincinnati. The best Toledo Express can hope for is on demand cargo and maybe some day a regularly scheduled flight on FedEx or UPS. I'm telling everyone right now to get it out of their heads that Toledo will be a cargo hub anytime soon.

The airport derives a lot of their federal funding from passenger services. This federal funding goes to rehabilitate runways, taxiways, and other buildings. When taxiway B was rehabbed a few years ago, I saw a statistic where it employed over 250 jobs for the construction season. More passengers = more federal dollars.

Hey...I'm not saying Toledo Express airline service is going to be everything to everyone. It never will be. I don't use it when it doesn't fit my schedule or the pricing is too much of a difference. It serves the local budget crowd - Allegiant and the local business crowd - American - and more importantly, brings business passengers here to Toledo and the surrounding region. This employs people at the airline (which AA will be needing to hire 5 more agents in the coming months), the rental car companies, airport staff, and at the FBO to fuel the flights. Oh yeah, the airport also serves the general aviation side of things too with 3 Fixed Base Operators (FBO) and an on-demand cargo company and a maintenance facility as well as the TPS aviation school. All jobs...

I'll stick to my 15 minute drive (barring a train), paying $8 a day for parking, finding a parking spot (have been shut out of DTW before or taken 45 mins to find a spot and no I do not park offsite), 2 minute walk to security, and less than 5 minutes through security (unless an Allegiant flight) and my elite qualifying segments for all within generally $100 of what the fare is out of DTW. American has gotten really good at their connections an most major cities are within an hour so that pretty much negates any drive time to/from DTW for me.

posted by avinsurer on Apr 18, 2017 at 01:42:19 pm     #   2 people liked this

Who wants to see me make it to DTW in 45 minutes? Valentine One and Waze in effect, and I park at Qwik Park (their sensational spelling). Didn't include the time to gate.

posted by SavageFred on Apr 18, 2017 at 01:50:19 pm     #  

My main complaint with Toledo airport is you have to connect to go anyplace. I never fly to Charlotte. A good example is NYC or DC. If I fly Delta I can fly non-stop to any of the three NYC airports and if there is a problem with my flight or I get to the airport early I have never had an issue having the flight changed to one of the airports. If I want to go to NYC from Toledo it means backtracking and flying to Chicago and then having to deal with the time laying over and then the flight to NYC.

I use QwikPark which is $9 a day so not much more than Toledo and they pick you up and drop you off right at your car. Security is easier to clear at DTW than TOL since Detroit now has clear and precheck and if you have a flight delay in Detroit I have access to the Skyclub and lots of restaurants to eat at, with Toledo there is nothing to do.

If Delta would bring back DTW or ATL service I would use Toledo if the price and times were right. Flying TOL/DTW and connecting was a great way to help keep my MQM's up for status and if the Toledo to Detroit flight had serious delays it was easy enough to just drive up to Detroit and catch my connection.

posted by jamesteroh on Apr 18, 2017 at 01:57:32 pm     #   1 person liked this

When I get a ticket to/from Toledo that is within $50-$100 of the price out of DTW, it's like winning the lottery. The majority of the time, it's a much more. Just my experience.

And since TOL has had such limited options for so many years, now the seals are trained to go to DTW for almost any direction that isn't Chicago. I'm not flying to ORD to go to JFK/DCA/BOS. It is not going to be easy to get those customers back. Especially since DTW's overhaul that put that miserable L.C. Smith terminal out of business (thank god). DTW is one of the nicest airports in the country IMO.

Since avinsurer is the resident expert, please explain this to me like I'm a 10 year old -- old enough to understand, but no expertise: how can Dayton (1 hr away from CVG-- not a Delta "hub" anymore, but still a major airport in a major metropolitan area), a city much smaller than Toledo (and its metro area) have such a robust flight schedule (non-stop too!) while TOL has to beg and plead for anything it can get to anywhere.

Is the "cheapness" of Toledoans really that stark with Dayton? Do we really have fewer business travelers than a city almost half our size? What incentives are they offering that we are not? It makes no logical sense to me looking on the outside.

Toledo Express / Port Authority has really screwed the pooch on our airport.

posted by oldhometown on Apr 18, 2017 at 02:53:19 pm     #  

For DTW, I have liked using the Fairfield Inn option--stay overnight and receive 8 days of free parking in the lot next door. Really good option if you book one of those 6AM flights out of DTW and are going for 3 -7 days.

posted by oldhometown on Apr 18, 2017 at 02:56:45 pm     #  

The Hilton Garden Inn park/fly is another good option if you have an early morning flight and will be gone for up to 10 days. They use Qwik Park so I park my car in their lot the night before and have the hotel shuttle pick me up and the hotel shuttle runs every 20 minutes in the morning and only takes a few minutes to the terminal. When I did it in December it was less than $100 for the hotel room and parking for six days.

I've never understood why we can't have decent air service either since Dayton does. If delta can provide service in Dayton which is just as close to Cinci (and even though it's no longer a Delta hub, Delta is still the primary carrier there) and Lansing isn't much further from Detroit than Toledo and they have service there, why isn't Delta providing service from Toledo any longer? The times I'd flown Delta from Toledo the planes were pretty full.

posted by jamesteroh on Apr 18, 2017 at 03:13:06 pm     #  

Dayton and Akron/Canton are always compared to Toledo but they are quite different in terms of comparison. First, the reason why Dayton and Akron/Canton were so successful in the past were because the hubs they were closest to didn't have the competition that DTW has, thus resulting in much higher fares in CLE and CVG. Both of those airports had the highest fare rankings consistently during their hub eras. The lower cost options of Dayton and Akron/Canton and the aggressive nature of Delta and United drove the low fare/cost carriers to the secondary markets. The major carriers always had to respond or else they would lose their passengers, so they always maintained service. This being said, both Dayton and Akron/Canton will be seeing some down years because of the loss of the hubs in CLE and CVG as the low fare/cost carriers have now infiltrated those larger airports.

How does this compare to Toledo? It doesn't - DTW has always had the low fare/cost carriers. Name one airline that isn't at DTW - Allegiant which is here in Toledo and that's really the only scheduled one. The propensity to be as cheap as possible with airfare and the ability to get flights have caused Toledo to always struggle in terms of passengers - always will. Toledo will always be the first to lose, last to come back because the market can be served through DTW - the airlines can actually weed out the lower fare passengers from this market and retain the higher fare paying ones. The region should be happy to have an airport to serve it like that, however, there are options out there and Toledo sometimes (not often) should make the cut. Having CLT will make it easier as American can offer much more competitive fares over this hub to the places a lot more people want to fly (think smaller cities in Florida and Carolinas that aren't as easily reached from DTW). If you're not flying the low fare/cost carriers out of DTW, pricing in Toledo is right there with what the other carriers are charging. Case in point - (disclaimer: I am not a fan of Frontier or Spirit and will avoid at all cost) the family of 4 is going to Disney in October...Toledo on the dates and schedule I want is $438 round trip and Delta out of DTW is $465 round trip and AA is $438 round trip also. If flexible, TOL gets to $348 and Delta is $258 for basic economy but that's a nonstarter.

I have to laugh that security is easier to clear in DTW than TOL as being Pre-Clear, you get ahead of anyone in line and most times there aren't lines - only when Allegiant flies.

Listen, I'm not trying to change the Skypesos lovers - just trying educate it's not all that it seems. I would rather take a 6:00am flight out of Toledo where I can leave my house at 5:10am and and be boarded up a half hour later with my cinnamon roll. Get off the plane and be home within 15 to 20 minutes at a cost that is comparable to DTW.

To put this totally on the Port's shoulders isn't squarely the case. In the past the Port was a lot more stubborn and really just thought every airline should fly out of here because we are Toledo and that definitely caused issues. There's a much better team there now and have different ideas and relationships. If there isn't a second announcement within a couple of months of a new airline to Toledo, I would be shocked. Things are looking up for Toledo for sure and if the CLT service is successful, could possibly get Delta's attention to restart Atlanta...but CLT has to be successful first. Again...all of this would create all new jobs in Ohio/Toledo.

posted by avinsurer on Apr 18, 2017 at 03:53:27 pm     #   4 people liked this

Thank you.

posted by oldhometown on Apr 18, 2017 at 04:15:50 pm     #  

Toledo definitely isn't a good city for NYC flyers. I do NYC weekend/long weekend trips a few times a year.

I'm doing one this weekend and decided to check Toledo. I priced my trip on Delta and looked on American and fares are comparable.

But here is the problem. Flight times! I am leaving DTW at 5:36 and landing at Newark at 7:29. There are a couple other flights after that if I didn't want to leave the office early that I could easily make leaving the office at 5 from Downtown. And I know it's a short flight but my upgrade already cleared.

I looked out of Toledo. I would have to leave at either 6:10 or 10:58 a.m. which basically means taking almost a whole day off work where flying out DTW I could work the entire day. Taking the later 10:58 AM flight out of Toledo I wouldn't until 6:45 pm at the earliest. It involved flying Toledo to Chicago then to Charlotte then to Newark. What business traveler is going to do that routing to avoid driving to Detroit? Hell the fare could be 1/2 off what it is from Detroit and I'll still drive to Detroit to save all that time. And if the Newark flight gets delayed or cancelled there's at least two other flights I can on that night or can get on a flight to JFK or LGA.

If someone is going to Chicago it could make sense to use TOL but not to NYC. There is a 7:09 PM that gets into LGA at 11:14 PM but it's a very tight connection and also means paying a cab or uber fare from LGA to midtown (train is only $12.50 out of EWR and takes 20 minutes from Newark to Penn Station).

For a family going to Orlando it could make sense to take allegiant out of Toledo but makes no sense for a business traveler to use Toledo to go to NYC

posted by jamesteroh on Apr 18, 2017 at 09:09:02 pm     #  

If I had free tickets to anywhere with Allegiant, I still wouldn't fly with them.
http://www.tampabay.com/projects/2016/investigations/allegiant-air/mechanical-breakdowns/

posted by dell_diva on Apr 18, 2017 at 09:51:17 pm     #   1 person liked this

There are a lot of reasons why TOL isn't as strong an airport as DAY or CAK - as others have mentioned, DTW is a global airport in ways that CLE and CVG aren't, so it has long been a bigger draw in the greater Detroit area - which includes Toledo.

Second, getting to DTW doesn't require driving through any city traffic - unless there's an accident on I-75, you can pretty much guarantee arriving at the airport on time if you plan ahead. The same can't be said for Daytonians driving through downtown Cincinnati.

Next, though I've only lived in NWO for a decade, it seems to me that the most recent heydey for TOL coincided with DTW's terminal rebuilding - I remember in the mid 2000s that Metro was a mess - which probably encouraged Toledoans to use their local airport. So perhaps those high numbers fifteen years ago were an aberration? I can't find historical passenger statistics for TOL anywhere online.

Last, the terminal is a dump. A museum to the worst year of the 1980s. TOL needs a new terminal.

posted by swampprof on Apr 18, 2017 at 10:28:13 pm     #  

I travel a bunch for work. Dtw is my only option. I'm there 5 times a month. Super easy with PRE and flights wherever I need to go. I echo other's comments... easily 45 minutes from the OWE. No brainer. I wish I could use Toledo but I can't. Period.

posted by upso on Apr 18, 2017 at 10:40:36 pm     #   1 person liked this

The other thing that DTW really has going for it-as far as major airports go-there are much, much worse out there.

It's easy to navigate, they are relatively competent. It's the number 5 ranked airport in the country in term of flight delays (fewest). Have you ever flown out of Cleveland or Cincinnati? Oy. At DTW-everything is shiny and new, parking is cheap. 45 min is not uncommon travel time to a major airport in a major city. Hell, if you live in Troy, or Bloomfield Hills, you're PRAYING for no traffic to make it to DTW in 45 minutes. We are spoiled with DTW. The only thing missing, is a park and ride hourly shuttle from Downtown. All of this adds up to a major, and probably insurmountable hurdle for Toledo Express.

posted by ahmahler on Apr 19, 2017 at 06:03:02 am     #   2 people liked this

In a former life, I was a mid level manager for a major car rental company. I did my stint at Toledo Express from late 1980 - when everything downtown was shiny, new and exciting (didn't last long) until 1984 when I was finally able to get back to DTW.
Those 4 years at TOL were interesting - boring, but interesting. There were some direct flights (businessmen and women) from a few major northeast cities that kept the airport fairly viable but there were constant flight additions and deletions. They were always a big deal because the airport enjoyed so few flights to begin with. These events never make news at larger airports like DTW.
For all the reasons already mentioned, as long as DTW sits to our north, TOL will NEVER be much of a passenger airport. The powers that be would be spending their time more wisely trying to make TOL a major cargo hub and possibly tie it into an Intermodal - though I think we screwed ourselves out of the Intermodal option some time ago. The previously mentioned - in a different thread - "we don't want nuttin' to ever change" crowd dilly-dallied around and let the Intermodal concept slip right through their slimy little fingers.
Sadly, the old saying about TOL is as true today as it was back when it was my stomping grounds: "You can't hardly get there from here."

posted by Foodie on Apr 19, 2017 at 08:42:46 am     #   1 person liked this

Toledo used to be good up to about the late 90's early 2000's as a feeder airport. All the major airlines except United and Southwest, had service to their nearest hubs and we had AirTran for a while. Unfortunately there are only a couple major domestic airlines left. There were a couple times in the 90's when I took voluntary bumps on Northwest and Delta from Toledo and got moved to US Air or Continental flights out of Toledo or they provided a car service to Detroit. Now that American is the only major carrier out of Toledo and they don't interline with the discount carriers at Toledo (and not to mention those airlines won't be flying to where I want to go anyway and only do a couple flights a week) you are stuck if your flight is cancelled. American and Delta stopped interlining last year so getting rebooked on a Delta out of Detroit is no longer an option either.

Someone should set up a bus service from the "transportation hub" here and provide service every 60 to 90 minutes from there to Detroit. The passengers would have free parking and the bus company could make a lot off the service.

posted by classylady on Apr 19, 2017 at 10:02:06 am     #  

Avinsurer is entirely correct about the history of low fare carriers at TOL. We brought AirTran in and Delta lowered their fares to match, taking a profit beating. Delta had been in the market forever and AirTran couldn't attract any new business customers who traditionally pay higher fares. Load factors were not bad. But profitability was for AirTran. They bailed.

We had another low fare carrier that flew to Chicago Midway. The name eludes me now. Their fares were so low they went bankrupt.

TransMeridian was a low-fare, scheduled charter airlines. They went bankrupt without notice. Our police department received requests from the airlines creditors to secure their aircraft and not allow them to leave. We parked snowplows in front of them. Their pilots and flight crews were stranded in Toledo and had to use personal funds to get home. I talked to their spokesman to clear a statement to give to the media. She said something to the effect of, "I don't give a shit what you tell them. I'm not getting paid anymore."

Toledo does not have a good track record of supporting new service. Like their politicians, they like what they know and don't want to try anything new.

posted by MemyselfandI on Apr 19, 2017 at 06:52:35 pm     #  

But don't be surprised if this route is here today and gone tomorrow. The deal is based on revenue guarantees partially funded through a federal grant. That grant program has been targeted by the Trump administration for elimination.

Also, the grant funding is time limited. Once the grant funding runs out, if the route is not profitable, American will end it.

posted by MemyselfandI on Apr 19, 2017 at 06:55:30 pm     #  

Do we know how they decide what destinations get picked for these limited engagements?

posted by upso on Apr 19, 2017 at 07:16:48 pm     #  

Toledo had at least two airlines that flew to Midway. There was Midway airlines that folded in the early 90s. Not sure of the exact years they were at Toledo but I remember taking them in 89 to Atlanta. The planes they used from Toledo were really tiny, I remember they didn't have a bathroom or a flight attendant. They were suppose to have been acquired by Northwest or Delta and the deal fell through so they just folded. I remember taking them because I was in college at the time and they were the only airline that gave a student discount.

ATA also provided service to Midway in the 2000s but they got acquired by Southwest and Southwest eliminated all the ATA regional routes.

posted by jamesteroh on Apr 19, 2017 at 11:07:32 pm     #  

I don't get it.......is this announcement REALLY that big of a deal? How many people will it really affect?

posted by BulldogBuckeye on Apr 20, 2017 at 08:17:48 am     #  

BulldogBuckeye posted at 09:17:48 AM on Apr 20, 2017:

I don't get it.......is this announcement REALLY that big of a deal? How many people will it really affect?

As far as I can tell, it will affect people under 5'11" tall, living south of the northern loop of I-475 who regularly fly to Charlotte in coach and would rather have short TSA lines.

posted by justread on Apr 20, 2017 at 08:38:39 am     #   1 person liked this

And are not afraid of an infestation of bedbugs because they already have them like those working on the 18th fl. of 1 government ctr.

posted by Mariner on Apr 20, 2017 at 08:47:15 am     #  

I went to the Chamber of Commerce luncheon yesterday and part of the presentation included information about this new service. The emphasis was on additional connections, not service directly to Charlotte. Since Charlotte is AA's second largest hub it opens up a lot of additional Southeast cities that you can access via Toledo - cities that would have required a connection even if you flew out of DTW. There were also many Caribbean destinations that aren't available through DTW and increased the number of European connections out of Toledo from 2 (via Chicago) to 6. Conversely, it makes it more accessible for business travelers from elsewhere to travel into Toledo.

Overall it actually seemed pretty well thought out. I wish them the best but I'll still be picking Delta out of DTW for most of my flights.

posted by idinspired on Apr 20, 2017 at 08:54:19 am     #  

Wow...something good for the area getting trashed on here...shows what's wrong with this area. 6 Full time jobs being created because of this....thought any decent paying jobs was a good thing for the area. My bad, it's not anything associated with Jeep, please forgive me.

MM+I...Chicago Express/ATA Connection ran as many as 6 daily Saab 340s Toledo to Midway 2002 - 2005. ATA went bankrupt mainly because they signed way high lease rates for brand new 737s and 757s and was absorbed by Southwest.

Facts about Charlotte airport for AA:
-lowest cost per enplaned passenger in the American system (which results in lower fares)
-2nd largest hub for American
-167 cities served (obviously not all will connect to Toledo)
+ 70 to 80 connection cities with quite a few not served nonstop out of DTW
+ 22 destinations in the Caribbean with one stop connections, of which 9 are served nonstop out of DTW (most not on a daily basis)
+ 6 one stop destinations to Europe, of which only 2 served nonstop out of DTW
-Most major city connections are around an hour

I will disagree that this will be here today gone tomorrow. They (AA) is making a huge investment, think multi million dollars, in this market. They will want to make sure their investment pays off and quite honestly, it should for both parties. Having connectivity for network carriers is key to drive revenue which is what Toledo does. It's hammered into everyone's heads around here that nonstop is the only way to go even if it's more. This service is more geared towards getting business travelers to where they need and more importantly getting them here. I spoke with several business leaders yesterday at a luncheon and all of them said they had some kind of ties to Charlotte or that region. For what it's worth, Charlotte was in the top 10 connection destinations when ATA flew into here over 10 years ago. It shouldn't have taken this long for Charlotte service to get here, in fact, USAirways should never have left Toledo...from what I've been told, that goes back to boneheadedness by the Port back when Pittsburgh was closing. Just my personal beliefs.

posted by avinsurer on Apr 20, 2017 at 08:56:19 am     #   4 people liked this

What a bunch of debbie-downers. Any new service is good for the airport. If you don't want to use it, don't. If you want to use it, please do. If you don't care, check it first.

"But don't be surprised if this route is here today and gone tomorrow."

If it's gone tomorrow, at least we have it today.

posted by micah on Apr 20, 2017 at 10:22:46 am     #   3 people liked this

Look, I don't mean to be a "debbie downer" -- I hope it works out and that this Charlotte run is good for us. I've flown out of Toledo plenty of times when the price has been comparable with DTW. That's all I really want - some layover time generally doesn't bother me.

Here is what I would be happy with:

1.) Existing service to Chicago remains, because basically anywhere the world is available from that airport. Most of it non-stop.

2.) Hope the Charlotte service works out. That opens up the Southeast/Carribean.

3.) One route to ANY of the greater New York area airports or Washington DC airports. IMO, the perceptual of flying south via Charlotte to go north to IAD/JFK/LGA/BOS will keep people driving to Detroit for flights to the major east coast cities. May be unfair, but that's the way I see it.

I don't think anyone wants to be a "hater" -- we've just seen the massive turnover through the years and the unfounded arrogance of the government entity that runs the airport. It has hurt and changed behavior patterns. Glad to hear that is changing and I hope for nothing but success.

Of course, what would truly help the airport is a massive influx of new businesses, welcomed with open arms and the least amount of political hassle possible, with ties to major population centers. But since we're determined to keep that sort of money out of the area and just rise and fall with the fortunes of the Jeep plant or the casino, I'll take what I can get for the airport.

posted by oldhometown on Apr 20, 2017 at 02:57:48 pm     #  

Hopefully if the Charlotte route works out American will add a couple JFK routes. If Delta had Toledo to Atlanta or JFK I would fly out of Toledo a lot more. A lot of business and pleasure travelers that go to NYC and if they use JFK Delta and American have many international connections leaving from JFK as well.

I don't think anyone wants to see Toledo express fail but I am being realistic. There are at least 20 flights a day to the three NYC airports and probably close to that many to the three DC airports every day out of Detroit. I'm not going to use Toledo and connect in Chicago to go to NYC just to say I am supporting the local airport.

Even though I don't like Carty, I will say no one loves Toledo more than him and even he used Detroit airport quite a bit.

posted by classylady on Apr 20, 2017 at 03:50:49 pm     #  

Post Bump...mainly because this won't be reported by the Blade.

Toledo - Charlotte started 08/22. Since, passenger numbers at Toledo Express are as follows:

Allegiant Air
Month Enplane Deplane Total Change
September 3,060 2,833 5,893 -13%
October 3,886 3,577 7,463 -5.5%
YTD 44,132 44,225 88,357 -5%

American Airlines operated by American Eagle (carriers)
Month Enplane Deplane Total Passengers Change
September 4,519 4,536 9,055 43.1%
October 5,619 5,678 11,297 81.6%
YTD 32,484 32,904 65,388 15%

Airport Total
Month Enplane Deplane Total Passengers Change
September 7,760 7,478 15,238 14%
October 9,622 9,444 19,066 32.8
YTD 77,887 78,400 156,287 3.2%

Should finish the year with about 5% to 8% growth. Nothing really new on the horizon except the airport terminal is getting some cosmetic work done - painting, etc.

If support continues like October, just increases the possibility (no guarantees) of new air service. I had flown AA the past 7 weeks straight, mostly through Charlotte and mostly positive experiences, just a bit of construction in Charlotte right now but things will look nice when finished there.

posted by avinsurer on Nov 14, 2017 at 11:02:32 am     #  

I live in Charlotte, have used this multiple times already, and will do so again at Thanksgiving. It's so convenient, much more than flying through the hellhole that is O'Hare or flying to DTW.

posted by clt212 on Nov 14, 2017 at 11:04:47 am     #  

O'Hare really is bad! I'd rather drive 4 hours to Chicago than go through that airport with a 45-minute flight.

posted by upso on Nov 14, 2017 at 11:20:11 am     #   1 person liked this

I'm glad to see this route is taking off (no pun intended).

I would love to see American add a route to one of the New York City airports.

I'd love to see Delta bring service to Detroit and Atlanta. Seeing how many flights they do out of JFK international and that LGA is becoming a mini hubs for Delta now I think a couple NYC trips a day to one of those airports could bring them in some business. We have no convenient way of going east from air by air.

posted by classylady on Nov 14, 2017 at 11:20:46 am     #  

upso posted at 11:20:11 AM on Nov 14, 2017:

O'Hare really is bad! I'd rather drive 4 hours to Chicago than go through that airport with a 45-minute flight.

Agreed. I drive even when the company offers to pay for the flight. Chicago to the west, Pittsburgh to the east-neither is worth the hassle of a flight.

posted by SavageFred on Nov 14, 2017 at 11:37:30 am     #  

Pitt I'll drive but they don't screw you with high parking fees and traffic isn't bad and the public transportation is almost as bad as Toledo and you need a car.

Chicago I normally fly if it's for business and I'm travelling solo seeing how expensive it is to park and how bad traffic is and they have great public transit. Delta also offers service to Midway. Easy train ride to the loop from either airport. I prefer to fly into Midway. Flying out I prefer O'Hare, if my flight ends up delaying on Delta you can get on an American or United flight non-stop back to Detroit and there are plenty of restaurants and a Delta lounge if you want to wait around on the delayed flight. Midway you are screwed since Southworst doesn't have an agreement with Delta and there is nothing to do at that airport.

posted by classylady on Nov 14, 2017 at 11:48:41 am     #  

Flying through O'Hare isn't a big deal but as others have said a destination itself is a problem at the moment with all of the construction going on there. Wife and I flew to Chicago two years ago and stayed out by the airport and rode the blue line into downtown...wasn't a terrible experience.

For those wanting to see Delta back to Atlanta, would need to support this to Charlotte first. The only way to get Delta to respond is if they have their pocketbook get hit. Delta really has paired back their DTW - Southeast nonstop offerings and trying to drive everyone through Atlanta, so why not make your connection in Charlotte out of Toledo instead?

posted by avinsurer on Nov 14, 2017 at 03:05:40 pm     #