Toledo Talk

2017 Toledo Politics

Dumping ground thread.

created by jr on Sep 05, 2017 at 10:46:44 pm     Comments: 78

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I early voted.

I voted for Wade for Mayor. Wasn't really impressed with many people running for city council outside of Sandy Spang and Sam. I hope Sam gets in, I think he would provide some much needed fresh blood on City Council

posted by jamesteroh on Sep 05, 2017 at 11:07:10 pm     #  

In the Yvonne Harper Order-gate thread, a small side-discussion formed about other political candidates. I did not want to hijack that thread further.

My comment below is related to comments in that thread that are found here, here, and here.


"... endorsements don't mean strings are attached, in all cases."

That might be theoretically possible in some cities, but we're talking about Toledo, Ohio.

Referring again to the 2015 Yvonne thread that pointed to a Blade editorial titled No rubber stamp

In filling two key vacancies, City Council members must answer to citizens, not party and union bosses.

Council members must elect a new president to succeed Paula Hicks-Hudson. Insiders say that council incumbent Steven Steel is seeking support among his colleagues for the position, and has the backing of local private-sector unions that traditionally have exercised broad political influence on the council.

The county Democratic Party and its organized-labor allies are leaning on council members to appoint Yvonne Harper, the party’s executive director.


March 2015 Keith Burris column about the city council event when Steel was made the new city council president.

I learned an important lesson about Toledo politics. The paramount value, and goal, is not that Democrats, Republicans, and independents compete. It is that everyone who belongs to the club gets a cookie at the end of the tree-house meeting.

It's not about party or program. It’s about insiders and outsiders. Not pretty. At a time when the city needed statecraft, it got burlesque.

Of course Mr. Steel’s boss, as everyone knows, is a man named Shaun Enright, head of the Northwestern Ohio Building & Construction Trade Council, who often acts openly as a whip on the council chambers floor — sending hand signals to council members and the new president.

I’ve never seen such an open and shameless domination of a political body by a special interest.

The insincerity oozed through the hall. You could cut it with a knife. Cynicism and self-service ruled the day.

All in the game. It is a game. If politics does not serve the common good at all, that only leaves self-interest and self-aggrandizement.

If it is not competitive it will inevitably become corrupt.


Back in early 2015, Scott Ramsey was appointed to fill the District 4 vacancy seat, and then Yvonne won it fair-and-square in the May 2015 election.


Remember the West Toledo Kroger-Sisters issue back in the spring?

A Blade editorial described the issue.

The words that come to mind are: blatant, sleazy, and shameless.

You’d think that after brazenly caving to a combination of pressure groups — unions, Catholics loyal to the leadership of the Notre Dame sisters, and big business, plus the promise of campaign help from all of the above — to approve a development deal that violates the city’s master plan, Toledo City Council and the Hicks-Hudson administration would lay low for a while. But you’d be wrong.

Here are the city council members who voted FOR mayor Paula Hicks-Hudson's sleazy shenanigans:

  • Tom Waniewski
  • Cecelia Adams
  • Rob Ludeman
  • Matt Cherry
  • Theresa Gabriel
  • Yvonne Harper
  • Tyrone Riley
  • Steven Steel
  • Larry Sykes
  • Lindsay Webb

Voted against:

  • Sandy Spang
  • Peter Ujvagi

2017 Lucas County democrat party endorsements:

  • Paula Hicks-Hudson to remain mayor of Toledo
  • Cecelia Adams to remain an at-large Toledo City Council member
  • Larry Sykes to remain an at-large Toledo City Council member

The other side is equally bad.

2017 Lucas County republican party endorsements

  • Rob Ludeman to remain an at-large Toledo City Council member
  • Tom Waniewski for Toledo Mayor

Ludeman participated in or was an accomplice to what, in my opinion, was thievery when he failed to come forward in a timely fashion about the city's scam of ticketing motorists who did nothing wrong. And the city had no intention of refunding the money until the Blade started poking around. Man, that criminal activity got swept away quickly, despite the last count being over 400 motorists who were wrongly ticketed.

July 2017 Blade editorial asked a simple question.

Did the ticket revenue exceed expectations because officers have been directed to nab drivers who are not actually speeding?

What did Ludeman know, and when did he know it?


Find the July 2017 interview that WSPD afternoon host Scott Sands conducted with Tom Waniewski. Tom gave a nonsensical interview. In my opinion, a blatant disregard of logic disqualifies someone from political office.

Scott told Tom that the traffic enforcement camera program is a money grab, which obviously it is, but Tom disagreed. Tom said that it's not a money grab.

But Scott failed to ask Tom that if the cameras are not a money grab, then why is the money from the fines listed as revenue in the budget? Why does the city expect to receive 4 to 6 million dollars from these cameras to balance the budget?

Tom said that if you don't want to pay a fine, then don't speed. In other words according to Tom, obey the law.

The mayoral hopeful made his moronic suggestion approximately one week after the Blade published stories about the city wrongly ticketing motorists.

Earlier this year, hundreds of motorists did what Tom suggested and obeyed the speed limit, but they got ticketed anyway, and most paid the fines. But Scott failed to mention this.

Tom is a city council member, and city council approves the budget. The traffic enforcement fines are listed in the budget as expected revenue. But Tom told people to drive the speed limit. If that happened, then the city has a 4 to 6 million dollar budget deficit.

I infer that Tom endorses a budget that is not balanced, which for a city is against state law.

Scott failed to ask Tom where does the money come from to fill the budget hole if people obeyed the speed limits. But how could we have a budget deficit if the traffic enforcement cameras are not a money grab?

Tom wants to add a zillion new police officers to the force. Fine. Where does the money come from, especially if people are obeying speed limitis, and the city has a multi-million dollar deficit?

The traffic enforcement camera revenue goes to the general fund. Police and fire services are funded by the general fund. Does Tom know this?

Scott failed to tell Tom that Toledo has more police officers and firemen per residents in 2017 than the city had in 1970. Why do we need more officers?

The answer comes from some arbitrary number, and Toledo is below this seemingly fabricated number for police officers.

This July 2017 Blade editorial may offer a reason as to why Toledo needs more police officers.

Crime is a legitimate issue. Toledo police Chief George Kral needs more officers.

Apparently, Toledo's crime rate is significantly worst in 2017 than it was in 1970, relative to the population.

Have any political candidates said that we need more police officers because Toledo is more unsafe today than decades ago?


This month's primary should be the final one, during a mayoral election year.

In the September primary, the top 12 city council at-large finishers make it to the November ballot. This year, 13 people are running for city council at-large.

In the mayoral primary, the top 2 finishers make it to November. This year, three candidates are running for mayor.

I don't count Opal. I know that she met the requirements to run by getting enough signatures and all of that happy horeshit, but she ran in 2005, 2009, 2013, and 2015, and she didn't come close in any contest. A normal person moves on or runs for something else.

This month's primary eliminates two people from political contention. That seems like a waste of money.

In 2021, all city council at-large candidates and mayoral candidates should appear on the November ballot.

posted by jr on Sep 05, 2017 at 11:53:57 pm     #   3 people liked this

jr, facts and logic and common sense and proof of nefarious misdeeds and all that noise simply have no place in this election. Just saying.

posted by JoeyGee on Sep 06, 2017 at 11:56:35 am     #  

The system is broken, let's break the system, has a sort of oroboros feel to it, no? Could we adopt the philosophy that there is good and evil in both parties-let's just start being a little more inquisitive, participatory and selective? That might make things better, wouldn't it? And if it doesn't, then maybe the other thing. As it stands, we don't do a very good job as citizens or voters. We confuse our political affiliation with our college football team. Let's start thinking critically, then we can look into destroying the political parties.

Multi party system? Can we stomach it? Interesting observations about German politics-
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/six-charts-to-help-americans-understand-the-upcoming-german-election/

posted by ahmahler on Sep 06, 2017 at 12:16:46 pm     #  

The system is broken, let's break the system, has a sort of oroboros feel to it, no?

You're presuming that the voting populace is as intelligent and well educated as you, personally, appear to be. They aren't. The majority are on the bad side of the bell curve and are doing good to find their way home every night. Want proof? Take the first line of your missive and conduct an informal, average man in the street type survey. See how many people can tell you who or what Ouroboros is. If you start at 7:00 AM, you might get three by 5:00 PM.

Want to run for office? Try explaining the real reasons why Toledo has a broken economy and what can be done to fix it, then contrast that with a political candidate who screams that the rich people all have money, we're all broke, but if you vote for me I can fix that. See who wins.

I used to believe that whoever controlled the commercial media controlled the outcome of the election, then President Trump got elected. Now I'm not sure what to believe.

posted by madjack on Sep 06, 2017 at 02:46:55 pm     #   1 person liked this

Is anyone watching the Mayoral debate on WTVG this morning? PHH is not instilling any confidence, and she's interrupting Wade constantly-tough to watch.

posted by ahmahler on Sep 10, 2017 at 11:19:57 am     #   1 person liked this

like voter turnout...

posted by justareviewer on Sep 10, 2017 at 12:26:39 pm     #   1 person liked this

Every election is in reality a referendum on the incumbent.

With that being said, is PH2 doing a bad job? Income taxes are up (which is a reflection of the economic health of the city), auto suppliers seem to be increasing jobs here, etc. Has anything "bad" happened on her watch?

I think some people might point to the west Toledo/Kroger deal. However, wasn't that city council?

I truly wonder how much criticism that is directed at her might be influenced by "other" factors.

posted by Dappling2 on Sep 10, 2017 at 04:11:32 pm     #  

Dappling2 posted at 04:11:32 PM on Sep 10, 2017:

Every election is in reality a referendum on the incumbent.

With that being said, is PH2 doing a bad job? Income taxes are up (which is a reflection of the economic health of the city), auto suppliers seem to be increasing jobs here, etc. Has anything "bad" happened on her watch?

I think some people might point to the west Toledo/Kroger deal. However, wasn't that city council?

I truly wonder how much criticism that is directed at her might be influenced by "other" factors.

Bumbling of the Southwyck deal, lack of cohesion on Water strategy, really terrible budget management. I think she deserves the criticism.

posted by ahmahler on Sep 10, 2017 at 05:49:52 pm     #   2 people liked this

I early voted last week. Very fast process, no lines and no politicians or their campaign staff to deal with like on election day at the polls.

I have noticed that fortunately I haven't been getting many campaign calls this year but I'm sure that will change in mid to late October. The only campaign I have received calls from is Nick Komives who I didn't vote for and have no use for, he used to live near me and I thought he was always a little stuck up but I guess that doesn't mean he wouldn't do good on council.

posted by classylady on Sep 10, 2017 at 05:51:29 pm     #  

This mayor is guilty of both sins of omission and commission. Remember when all the firefighters voted overwhelming to have the Chief removed and she completely ducked the leadership role in the outcome? Her HR skills have proven faulty on both letting people go who needed to be as well as hiring and retaining those completely unfit for positions in government. None of that has gone unnoticed nor forgotten. Land and property management of possessions of the citizens of Toledo has been abysmal. There were two long years under this administration when city roads and streets could have been better cared for and were not. The collective cost to the citizens in auto repair would surely have covered that expense instead of auto degradation and repair. Red light cameras and speed traps to enhance city revenue? All the while making the plea for more staffing of safety forces. Un Huh. Increasing jobs and economic health of the city just does not fall in her column. Port Authority, RGP even our beloved county commissioners had a great deal to do with that. It's always galling to have someone try to take credit for the work of others. Finally the reference to "other" factors which appears to be a code inference to race just does not hold any water whatsoever. This is the third(count them) African American mayor of Toledo and the second(count them) woman mayor of Toledo. She is a very affable, likable person who simply lacks the skills to get the job done. Please stow the race card. Doesn't play here.

posted by Mariner on Sep 10, 2017 at 06:27:31 pm     #   4 people liked this

Well said.

posted by oldhometown on Sep 10, 2017 at 07:50:19 pm     #  

I voted for Paula, Nick and Sam today and that was it.

posted by upso on Sep 10, 2017 at 08:14:49 pm     #  

Results have an influence with me. PH2 hasn't got it done. She rode a wave. I live in Toledo. Will vote as I do every election, primary or otherwise. All I ask is that all registered voters do the same.

posted by TrilbyGuy on Sep 11, 2017 at 12:21:56 am     #   1 person liked this

I voted today in south toledo. At the time I was there, pretty good turn out.

I am curious how PHH "dropped the ball" on the southwyck deal? Sounds to me that it wasn't a serious offer or came with a lot of strings

posted by Dappling2 on Sep 12, 2017 at 08:28:29 pm     #  

Dappling2 posted at 08:28:29 PM on Sep 12, 2017:

I voted today in south toledo. At the time I was there, pretty good turn out.

I am curious how PHH "dropped the ball" on the southwyck deal? Sounds to me that it wasn't a serious offer or came with a lot of strings

http://www.toledoblade.com/local/2016/12/30/Deal-to-sell-former-Southwyck-site-in-South-Toledo-is-terminiated.html

http://www.toledoblade.com/Featured-Editorial-Home/2017/01/05/Toledo-Blade-editorial-The-secret-deal-that-wasn-t.html

posted by ahmahler on Sep 12, 2017 at 09:18:27 pm     #  

Good lord, I just saw the election results. PH2 got as many votes as Wade and Tom combined.

And Larry Sykes got the most votes of any one in the City Council race.

What the hell is wrong with Toledo voters???

posted by classylady on Sep 12, 2017 at 10:11:26 pm     #   9 people liked this

Aren't they only at like 21% reporting so far? They had some computer issues or something, slowing down reporting.

posted by Johio83 on Sep 12, 2017 at 10:25:09 pm     #  

Fwiw-

From Jay Skebba, Toledo Blade
Tom Waniewski told supporters he still feels very good about his chances. Emphasized the inner city votes being counted first.

posted by ahmahler on Sep 12, 2017 at 10:51:04 pm     #  

I'm surprised Channel 11 isn't scrolling results.

Channel 13 is showing 71 percent of the polls reporting and Paula has 40% of the vote and Wade at 33%. Wade is doing pretty good seeing Paula is the incumbent and endorsed candidate. And Tom is doing pretty good seeing how many democrats are in Toledo.

Wade has a pretty good shot with the current results. I'm sure he'll get a lot more of the votes that went to Tom than Paula will get.

posted by jamesteroh on Sep 12, 2017 at 10:55:19 pm     #  

Paula and Wade in November.
What a joke. Can anyone name anything Paula has done positively for the city during her reign?

I'll be here all night.

posted by WestToledoan on Sep 12, 2017 at 11:44:03 pm     #   3 people liked this

The good news: 60% of voters chose someone other than Paula. Theoretically, anyone who voted for Tom is going to be voting for Wade in the general. The bad news: the primary voter turnout was such a small sample size that it may not mean a ton.

posted by Johio83 on Sep 13, 2017 at 12:12:57 am     #  

WestToledoan posted at 11:44:03 PM on Sep 12, 2017:

Paula and Wade in November.
What a joke. Can anyone name anything Paula has done positively for the city during her reign?

I'll be here all night.

Look for...........the union label..............

Tole-duh!

posted by Foodie on Sep 13, 2017 at 03:21:53 am     #   4 people liked this

classylady posted at 10:11:26 PM on Sep 12, 2017:

Good lord, I just saw the election results. PH2 got as many votes as Wade and Tom combined.

And Larry Sykes got the most votes of any one in the City Council race.

What the hell is wrong with Toledo voters???

Well, I would say looking at the results that they like a person who can pull off an interesting hat.

posted by justread on Sep 13, 2017 at 05:12:40 am     #  

When you pull the brim down low enough you can't see the falsity emanating from the eyes.

posted by Mariner on Sep 13, 2017 at 07:36:25 am     #  

I'd like to think the Democratic Party would say "hey, it's two Dems running, we'll show equal support and let the people make the best choice." But we all know Paula will have the D next to her name again, and 98% of the votes she get will be solely because of that.

posted by Johio83 on Sep 13, 2017 at 09:21:53 am     #  

Opal Covey 0.80% 199 votes (pissed off enough to cast a vote).

posted by justareviewer on Sep 13, 2017 at 10:42:07 am     #   2 people liked this

I keep going back to the last election and early voters (which there seemed to be a lot) had voted for every tax in the city and county

2 to 1

These numbers seem odd too. How does Larry get 35% of the vote in a Point Place precinct?

posted by Molsonator on Sep 13, 2017 at 11:23:42 am     #  

In fairness, % of votes in the city council race is hard to correlate to anything, since you can vote for up to six different people.

posted by Johio83 on Sep 13, 2017 at 11:57:02 am     #  

So 35% of the people that voted in that precinct in Point Place didn't know Larry is a shipwreck?

posted by Molsonator on Sep 13, 2017 at 01:18:18 pm     #   1 person liked this

Did the churches bus in people for early voting again this election? Seeing that quite a few aren't employed and don't own real estate and live in the inner city it makes sense they would support the tax issues. They benefit from them but don't have to pay the increased taxes. And I'm sure the inner city churches support african american candidates like PH2 and Sykes.

I early voted and didn't vote for either PH2 or Sykes but I don't fit the demographic of a lot of early voters.

Another mistake that a lot of voters made was thinking they had to vote for 12 people. Very foolish move, just vote for the candidates you support, if there aren't six candidates you support on the November ballot only vote for the ones you want in office, no sense giving a vote to a candidate you don't care for.

Sandy, Sam, Gary and Cecilia were the only candidates I liked and the only ones that received my vote.

posted by classylady on Sep 13, 2017 at 01:30:43 pm     #  

Molsonator posted at 01:18:18 PM on Sep 13, 2017:

So 35% of the people that voted in that precinct in Point Place didn't know Larry is a shipwreck?

What, is the idea that 1/3rd of the population has little or no working knowledge of a city councilperson's background? Yes, I would put all the money I have ever had and will ever come to have on those odds.

posted by Johio83 on Sep 13, 2017 at 01:32:09 pm     #   1 person liked this

Honestly, I bet 4 in 5 Toledoans couldn't name more than two members of city council if they weren't reading them on the ballot. And I would bet those numbers could be reproduced similarly in every city across the country.

posted by Johio83 on Sep 13, 2017 at 01:34:09 pm     #   3 people liked this

Warning shots have been fired against Wade

http://www.13abc.com/content/news/Party-chairman-lashes-out-at-fellow-Democrat-running-for-mayor-444265483.html

The only Democrat that they prefer is the one that they can control the most...PH2

Interesting that this story just comes out as well....

http://www.toledoblade.com/local/2017/09/13/Toledo-to-pay-218-573-back-to-HUD.html

posted by WestToledoan on Sep 13, 2017 at 04:21:12 pm     #  

Johio83 posted at 01:34:09 PM on Sep 13, 2017:

Honestly, I bet 4 in 5 Toledoans couldn't name more than two members of city council if they weren't reading them on the ballot. And I would bet those numbers could be reproduced similarly in every city across the country.

You're being generous. I'd give you three to one odds that 99 out of 100 adult Toledo residents couldn't name three or more members of the Toledo city council.

posted by madjack on Sep 13, 2017 at 05:20:24 pm     #  

If they answered Larry, Moe, and Curley we'd have to give them a knowledgeable pass.

posted by Mariner on Sep 13, 2017 at 05:38:55 pm     #  

http://www.toledoblade.com/Editorials/2017/09/14/Can-Toledo-do-better-2.html

excerpt... City government has a competence problem and city politics lacks new faces and new ideas. Our local politics is suffused with apathy and resignation — things will never change, this is Toledo.

Only in our government and politics is this old millstone still around the city’s neck.

A primary vote in which 25,000 people vote (13.3 percent of registered voters) and two Democrats emerge as the final choice feeds into the apathy. It amounts to a collective shrug.

posted by justareviewer on Sep 14, 2017 at 10:33:39 am     #   1 person liked this

justareviewer posted at 10:33:39 AM on Sep 14, 2017:

http://www.toledoblade.com/Editorials/2017/09/14/Can-Toledo-do-better-2.html

excerpt... City government has a competence problem and city politics lacks new faces and new ideas. Our local politics is suffused with apathy and resignation — things will never change, this is Toledo.

Only in our government and politics is this old millstone still around the city’s neck.

A primary vote in which 25,000 people vote (13.3 percent of registered voters) and two Democrats emerge as the final choice feeds into the apathy. It amounts to a collective shrug.

It's not like Tom was a bright new face for Toledo.

posted by SensorG on Sep 14, 2017 at 10:53:10 am     #   1 person liked this

hopefully, this turns off the runaway bold/strong command.

posted by jr on Sep 14, 2017 at 10:58:55 am     #  

Am hoping Sandy Spang was sincere in stating a desire for a forensic exam of CDBG funds. It has been the cookie jar for a select group for a lot of years. Would not take a great deal of page turning to discover how biased the fed dollars are expended. Some sunshine is necessary.

posted by Mariner on Sep 14, 2017 at 04:46:20 pm     #   4 people liked this

http://www.13abc.com/content/news/Party-chairman-lashes-out-at-fellow-Democrat-running-for-mayor-444265483.html

This makes me crazy. WTF is wrong with this guy? This is EXACTLY why Toledoans get turned off from the local democratic party. Partisan in-fighting. Wade didn't "wait his turn".

posted by ahmahler on Sep 15, 2017 at 09:39:51 am     #   4 people liked this

It's why they get apathetic in general, too. Knowing you really don't have a say in who represents you is off putting.

posted by justread on Sep 15, 2017 at 09:58:35 am     #   3 people liked this

"He is seen as jumping in line and being disloyal"

Well, that works for me.

posted by JoeyGee on Sep 15, 2017 at 10:07:55 am     #   3 people liked this

Maybe Hughes sees supporting PHH as a way to heal the rift between the Party and the unions. There is a sense though that the rift might have something to do with the $200,000+ Hughes' former law firm allegedly overbilled the unions for legal representation. That one is still in litigation.

http://www.toledoblade.com/Politics/2017/04/29/Discord-grows-between-local-Dem-chair-unions.html

posted by Ace_Face on Sep 15, 2017 at 11:04:45 am     #  

I have had a hell of an email exchange with LCDP over this. Myopic, would be the nicest word I might use.

posted by ahmahler on Sep 15, 2017 at 11:33:23 am     #  

Editorial about the mayor race in yesterday's Blade:
http://www.toledoblade.com/Editorials/2017/09/14/Can-Toledo-do-better-2.html

Seeing that Keith Burris lives in the Burb's and JRB didn't even live in Ohio last time I heard, I don't understand why they are writing this editorial. If they are that concerned with how Toledo citizens vote, then they should live in the city.

posted by classylady on Sep 15, 2017 at 01:15:03 pm     #  

JRB is pretty invested in Toledo, classylady. I think I'll allow it.

posted by justread on Sep 15, 2017 at 01:31:01 pm     #  

posted by justareviewer on Sep 15, 2017 at 02:15:31 pm     #   4 people liked this

This is EXACTLY why Toledoans get turned off from the local democratic party.

But not turned off enough to actually leave it in any substantive numbers. Right?

Whatever affect you think "turned off" may have, empirically it doesn't. There are still enough straight ballot drones to drown out any those "turned off."

And those that could raise hell/buck the system--sadly--I believe have voted with their feet. They're gone.

posted by oldhometown on Sep 15, 2017 at 02:42:28 pm     #  

justareviewer posted at 02:15:31 PM on Sep 15, 2017:

In the fall of 2005, Opal Covey told Toledoans:

"I’m warning you, if you don’t change this government to God’s government, destruction will come, just as it did in New Orleans."

Uh, oh. Her 12-year-old prediction could come true. Storm clouds approach. The cloud above the Fifth Third building might be the face of a demon from hell.

posted by jr on Sep 15, 2017 at 03:04:37 pm     #  

"But not turned off enough to actually leave it in any substantive numbers. Right?"

Where are we going to go? The local Republican party? I laugh just thinking about it.

posted by SensorG on Sep 15, 2017 at 03:15:06 pm     #   2 people liked this

oldhometown posted at 02:42:28 PM on Sep 15, 2017:

This is EXACTLY why Toledoans get turned off from the local democratic party.

But not turned off enough to actually leave it in any substantive numbers. Right?

Whatever affect you think "turned off" may have, empirically it doesn't. There are still enough straight ballot drones to drown out any those "turned off."

And those that could raise hell/buck the system--sadly--I believe have voted with their feet. They're gone.

I just had a long chat with my Father (not a dem) who used to audit the books for the Teamsters. He had some stories. Our combined observation is one that, the people in power in the LCDP are under the illusion that they have power. There is a history of corruption, cronyism, yada yada. This chapter is further evidence that old habits die hard and no one ever lets power slip away willfully. A strong, internal opposition, is a good thing for the Democratic party. Wade just might be competent enough to put an end to some of the shenanigans, at least for the next 4 years.

Worth noting-this is the first time in the history of Toledo that the Local Democratic Party gave an endorsement to a Mayoral candidate BEFORE the primaries.

ON the voting with their feet thought-If the person that is mayor is on your list of reasons to move, it must be a very long list, and it's hopefully, pretty close to the bottom.

posted by ahmahler on Sep 15, 2017 at 03:30:46 pm     #  

What if it's 40 years of mayors and 40 years of council on your list?

posted by justread on Sep 15, 2017 at 03:52:34 pm     #   2 people liked this

justread posted at 03:52:34 PM on Sep 15, 2017:

What if it's 40 years of mayors and 40 years of council on your list?

A) you may be obsessed
B) you waited too long
C) the list wasn't a list, but actually a MacGuffin

posted by ahmahler on Sep 15, 2017 at 04:26:20 pm     #  

What if it is high taxes, and home value loss, and hidden fees and the surge in rentals and reduction in homeownership and shitty schools?

posted by justread on Sep 15, 2017 at 04:29:38 pm     #   4 people liked this

What if it is high taxes, and home value loss, and hidden fees and the surge in rentals and reduction in homeownership and shitty schools?

posted by justread on Sep 15, 2017 at 04:30:05 pm     #  

What if it's twice?

posted by justread on Sep 15, 2017 at 04:30:42 pm     #  

I'm not going to even try to defend anyone that has been in our local government for the past, well, let's say 30 years. That said-those are criticisms of pretty much every Midwest city. Some are ahead of the curve, but most are shaped by the same factors we have. Those are widespread. It would be nice if we elected people that knew how to deal with them, but the loss of a strong middle class has 50x the influence on local economy than the government, but the government is the symbol of what is right/ wrong. We need to hold our leaders to a higher standard. If people leave because the city government isn't doing a good enough job, they'll be disappointed to find similar problems elsewhere.

posted by ahmahler on Sep 15, 2017 at 05:22:44 pm     #   1 person liked this

We need to hold ourselves to higher standards and elect better leaders.

posted by upso on Sep 15, 2017 at 05:39:05 pm     #  

upso posted at 05:39:05 PM on Sep 15, 2017:

We need to hold ourselves to higher standards and elect better leaders.

That, my friend, will NOT happen in this county for a VERY long time - if ever.
Lucas County suffers from group think. The (too large) majority either doesn't have the intelligence or are just too damned lazy to be bothered to educate themselves with facts and make informed decisions.
I suspect it is a combination of both.

posted by Foodie on Sep 16, 2017 at 04:36:20 am     #   1 person liked this

"Wade just might be competent enough to put an end to some of the shenanigans, at least for the next 4 years. "

Um, Wade is a groomed party hack whose hackery dates back decades.

Being Toledo Mayor would be something to add to his political resume as he continues his desired path of ever higher office.

posted by Foodie on Sep 16, 2017 at 04:41:29 am     #   1 person liked this

"Being Toledo Mayor would be something to add to his political resume as he continues his desired path of ever higher office."

...so what? That's like saying BG, Utah, and Florida never should have hired Urban Meyer, because he was just going to move to the better school eventually. So what if we only get a term or two from a guy who eventually wants to do bigger and better things than be mayor of a city of 270k?

posted by Johio83 on Sep 16, 2017 at 07:26:53 am     #  

ahmahler posted at 05:22:44 PM on Sep 15, 2017:

I'm not going to even try to defend anyone that has been in our local government for the past, well, let's say 30 years. That said-those are criticisms of pretty much every Midwest city. Some are ahead of the curve, but most are shaped by the same factors we have. Those are widespread. It would be nice if we elected people that knew how to deal with them, but the loss of a strong middle class has 50x the influence on local economy than the government, but the government is the symbol of what is right/ wrong. We need to hold our leaders to a higher standard. If people leave because the city government isn't doing a good enough job, they'll be disappointed to find similar problems elsewhere.

If you're someone who fled Toledo because of all the reasons justread has listed, and you moved to Perrysburg, you aren't disappointed. When the citizens there are unhappy with the current mayor, they actually vote strongly for his competitor in the primary as we see in the results for Olmstead and Mackin. Educated citizens aren't settling for the incumbent.

posted by dell_diva on Sep 16, 2017 at 11:51:27 am     #   1 person liked this

dell_diva posted at 11:51:27 AM on Sep 16, 2017:
ahmahler posted at 05:22:44 PM on Sep 15, 2017:

I'm not going to even try to defend anyone that has been in our local government for the past, well, let's say 30 years. That said-those are criticisms of pretty much every Midwest city. Some are ahead of the curve, but most are shaped by the same factors we have. Those are widespread. It would be nice if we elected people that knew how to deal with them, but the loss of a strong middle class has 50x the influence on local economy than the government, but the government is the symbol of what is right/ wrong. We need to hold our leaders to a higher standard. If people leave because the city government isn't doing a good enough job, they'll be disappointed to find similar problems elsewhere.

If you're someone who fled Toledo because of all the reasons justread has listed, and you moved to Perrysburg, you aren't disappointed. When the citizens there are unhappy with the current mayor, they actually vote strongly for his competitor in the primary as we see in the results for Olmstead and Mackin. Educated citizens aren't settling for the incumbent.

Well, I already suspected we were inferior to those educated citizens in Perrysburg, so I checked their Board of Elections records. Toledo had a 13% turnout for our mayoral primary. Surely our esteemed brethren across the river would have twice or maybe three times the turnout. Oh wait...

http://www.co.wood.oh.us/boe/Precinct%20Breakdown%20Unofficial.pdf

posted by Ace_Face on Sep 16, 2017 at 04:03:38 pm     #  

Johio83 posted at 07:26:53 AM on Sep 16, 2017:

"Being Toledo Mayor would be something to add to his political resume as he continues his desired path of ever higher office."

...so what? That's like saying BG, Utah, and Florida never should have hired Urban Meyer, because he was just going to move to the better school eventually. So what if we only get a term or two from a guy who eventually wants to do bigger and better things than be mayor of a city of 270k?

Comparing Urban Meyer and Dem hack Wade is a real stretch. The point being I'm sure you and thousands of others are quite content with the continuation of the same old, same old in Toledo/Lucas County. As long as the D's can maintain power/control and the status quo of stale thought and political shenanigans, too many are satisfied.

There is no room in Lucas County politics for fresh faces, ideas and innovative, out of the box thinking.

posted by Foodie on Sep 17, 2017 at 05:47:29 am     #  

Ace_Face posted at 04:03:38 PM on Sep 16, 2017:
dell_diva posted at 11:51:27 AM on Sep 16, 2017:
ahmahler posted at 05:22:44 PM on Sep 15, 2017:

I'm not going to even try to defend anyone that has been in our local government for the past, well, let's say 30 years. That said-those are criticisms of pretty much every Midwest city. Some are ahead of the curve, but most are shaped by the same factors we have. Those are widespread. It would be nice if we elected people that knew how to deal with them, but the loss of a strong middle class has 50x the influence on local economy than the government, but the government is the symbol of what is right/ wrong. We need to hold our leaders to a higher standard. If people leave because the city government isn't doing a good enough job, they'll be disappointed to find similar problems elsewhere.

If you're someone who fled Toledo because of all the reasons justread has listed, and you moved to Perrysburg, you aren't disappointed. When the citizens there are unhappy with the current mayor, they actually vote strongly for his competitor in the primary as we see in the results for Olmstead and Mackin. Educated citizens aren't settling for the incumbent.

Well, I already suspected we were inferior to those educated citizens in Perrysburg, so I checked their Board of Elections records. Toledo had a 13% turnout for our mayoral primary. Surely our esteemed brethren across the river would have twice or maybe three times the turnout. Oh wait...

http://www.co.wood.oh.us/boe/Precinct%20Breakdown%20Unofficial.pdf

I'll save folks the wait for the pdf to load. When precincts were averaged it was 13.3%. Obviously it takes proportionally less Perrysburgers to get the job done.

posted by justread on Sep 17, 2017 at 06:55:50 am     #  

justread posted at 06:55:50 AM on Sep 17, 2017:
Ace_Face posted at 04:03:38 PM on Sep 16, 2017:
dell_diva posted at 11:51:27 AM on Sep 16, 2017:
ahmahler posted at 05:22:44 PM on Sep 15, 2017:

I'm not going to even try to defend anyone that has been in our local government for the past, well, let's say 30 years. That said-those are criticisms of pretty much every Midwest city. Some are ahead of the curve, but most are shaped by the same factors we have. Those are widespread. It would be nice if we elected people that knew how to deal with them, but the loss of a strong middle class has 50x the influence on local economy than the government, but the government is the symbol of what is right/ wrong. We need to hold our leaders to a higher standard. If people leave because the city government isn't doing a good enough job, they'll be disappointed to find similar problems elsewhere.

If you're someone who fled Toledo because of all the reasons justread has listed, and you moved to Perrysburg, you aren't disappointed. When the citizens there are unhappy with the current mayor, they actually vote strongly for his competitor in the primary as we see in the results for Olmstead and Mackin. Educated citizens aren't settling for the incumbent.

Well, I already suspected we were inferior to those educated citizens in Perrysburg, so I checked their Board of Elections records. Toledo had a 13% turnout for our mayoral primary. Surely our esteemed brethren across the river would have twice or maybe three times the turnout. Oh wait...

http://www.co.wood.oh.us/boe/Precinct%20Breakdown%20Unofficial.pdf

I'll save folks the wait for the pdf to load. When precincts were averaged it was 13.3%. Obviously it takes proportionally less Perrysburgers to get the job done.

To be fair, the other 86.7% of Perrysburg's residents are Toledo refugees who suffer from voter PTSD and refuse to vote again, so there's that.

posted by JoeyGee on Sep 17, 2017 at 09:39:29 am     #  

Foodie-I'll throw a challenge to you. Nominate a couple of individuals to run for mayor, today, that are qualified and competent. And saying "anyone but ____________", is a cop out.

posted by ahmahler on Sep 17, 2017 at 10:45:24 am     #   3 people liked this

justread posted at 06:55:50 AM on Sep 17, 2017:
Ace_Face posted at 04:03:38 PM on Sep 16, 2017:
dell_diva posted at 11:51:27 AM on Sep 16, 2017:
ahmahler posted at 05:22:44 PM on Sep 15, 2017:

I'm not going to even try to defend anyone that has been in our local government for the past, well, let's say 30 years. That said-those are criticisms of pretty much every Midwest city. Some are ahead of the curve, but most are shaped by the same factors we have. Those are widespread. It would be nice if we elected people that knew how to deal with them, but the loss of a strong middle class has 50x the influence on local economy than the government, but the government is the symbol of what is right/ wrong. We need to hold our leaders to a higher standard. If people leave because the city government isn't doing a good enough job, they'll be disappointed to find similar problems elsewhere.

If you're someone who fled Toledo because of all the reasons justread has listed, and you moved to Perrysburg, you aren't disappointed. When the citizens there are unhappy with the current mayor, they actually vote strongly for his competitor in the primary as we see in the results for Olmstead and Mackin. Educated citizens aren't settling for the incumbent.

Well, I already suspected we were inferior to those educated citizens in Perrysburg, so I checked their Board of Elections records. Toledo had a 13% turnout for our mayoral primary. Surely our esteemed brethren across the river would have twice or maybe three times the turnout. Oh wait...

http://www.co.wood.oh.us/boe/Precinct%20Breakdown%20Unofficial.pdf

I'll save folks the wait for the pdf to load. When precincts were averaged it was 13.3%. Obviously it takes proportionally less Perrysburgers to get the job done.

By "getting the job done" you presumably mean "throwing the bums out" for fresh blood. Mackin was on Perrysburg City Council from 1998-2015 so he's hardly bring a dynamic new perspective to the Mayor's office.

posted by Ace_Face on Sep 17, 2017 at 11:13:25 am     #  

Wow. That's a long time. I wonder what union he is the business manager or shop steward of?

posted by justread on Sep 17, 2017 at 04:12:01 pm     #  

How about Randy Oostra? Everyone thinks that Promedica is such a great organization for Toledo he surely would win.

posted by ThePhysician on Sep 18, 2017 at 12:29:51 pm     #  

ahmahler posted at 10:45:24 AM on Sep 17, 2017:

Foodie-I'll throw a challenge to you. Nominate a couple of individuals to run for mayor, today, that are qualified and competent. And saying "anyone but ____________", is a cop out.

That is an exercise in futility. Qualified and competent is not what wins elections in Toledo.

posted by Foodie on Sep 18, 2017 at 02:46:33 pm     #  

Foodie posted at 02:46:33 PM on Sep 18, 2017:
ahmahler posted at 10:45:24 AM on Sep 17, 2017:

Foodie-I'll throw a challenge to you. Nominate a couple of individuals to run for mayor, today, that are qualified and competent. And saying "anyone but ____________", is a cop out.

That is an exercise in futility. Qualified and competent is not what wins elections in Toledo.

Internet message boards are as well, yet, here we are.

C'mon, take a swing at it, nominate a person, in this city, that is a leader, politician, philanthropist, ruthless real estate magnate-anything, but you have to name someone. I'm not asking, just so I can shoot it down, I'm asking, because I want to hear what you have to say.

posted by ahmahler on Sep 18, 2017 at 03:31:58 pm     #   3 people liked this

Dave Balls Dad.

posted by Molsonator on Sep 18, 2017 at 03:39:27 pm     #   8 people liked this

Truly interested in a fresh face on city council? Someone who isn't the same old, same old? Someone who isn't a party hack?
Here's your candidate .
I met Alfonso five years ago and have had numerous conversations with him since. He's passionate about fixing Toledo's crumbling neighborhoods and has proven it through his deeds not just empty promises. Best of all, to the best of my knowledge, he's beholdin' to no one.
Sadly, because he isn't backed by corrupt union bosses and has the dreaded "R" after his name, he doesn't stand a chance.
I've proudly cast my vote for him every time he has run - and will continue to do so. I'd encourage everyone to at least give him serious consideration.

posted by Foodie on Sep 27, 2017 at 09:34:33 am     #  

"Hickey For Kids" is an odd choice of wording based upon his shady past at Addison (MI) schools and his sketchy behavior at Whitmer. Kinda sick, when you think about it.

posted by BulldogBuckeye on Sep 27, 2017 at 11:02:22 am     #   1 person liked this

Foodie posted at 09:34:33 AM on Sep 27, 2017:

Truly interested in a fresh face on city council? Someone who isn't the same old, same old? Someone who isn't a party hack?
Here's your candidate .

I met Alfonso five years ago and have had numerous conversations with him since. He's passionate about fixing Toledo's crumbling neighborhoods and has proven it through his deeds not just empty promises. Best of all, to the best of my knowledge, he's beholdin' to no one.

Sadly, because he isn't backed by corrupt union bosses and has the dreaded "R" after his name, he doesn't stand a chance.

I've proudly cast my vote for him every time he has run - and will continue to do so. I'd encourage everyone to at least give him serious consideration.

Narvaez does indeed seem to be a good candidate. But I'm not sure he is not beholden to anyone. He is active with the local Republican Party and more accurately, Jon Stainbrook. Anyone who actively supports a clown like the Stain is a little suspect in my book.

posted by Ace_Face on Sep 28, 2017 at 12:13:41 pm     #   7 people liked this

A vote of no confidence has caused bottled drinking water to fly off shelves in the last several days mirroring the demand of the water crises of 2014. The city is being told that the concern is groundless and our drinking water is safe to consume and use. A quick glance at the Maumee River downtown has us all believing otherwise. The weather temperature will cool, the direction of the wind will change and increase blowing the bright green bloom out to the lake leaving only a residue along the shore of its impact. What will also remain is the lack of trust with city leaders. The health department head, director of utilities, city environmental spokesman can all appear on local media professing what their dashboard reads as safe and still that does not dispel the doubt raised by the visual experience. The river will return to its normal color, the condition of the lake can be fixed over time, the quality of safe drinking water can be fixed over time but there still remains 9 million reasons why the Paula Hicks-Hudson administration cannot be fixed. Our votes are crucial to end the poor judgement which we have had repeatedly.

posted by Mariner on Oct 01, 2017 at 06:39:33 am     #   3 people liked this