Toledo Talk

Julian Mack traffic stop

Julian Mack is a drama queen. He is not a leader but a petty antagonist. If he took that heavy chip off his shoulder he might be able to move ahead straight. His passenger melted down pdq during the stop and sure doesn't give the impression of someone anyone would want on the school board. Interesting (his vid on his fb) that the radio motor patrol lit up immediately upon leaving him, lights and siren, no doubt had more serious matters to attend to.

created by Mariner on Sep 21, 2017 at 10:30:12 am     Comments: 40

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Drives by a cop on a traffic stop, hits the brakes and yells "F--k the Police". Too scared to admit he did when pulled over. Then goes on FB and admits it. What a douche.

posted by Ace_Face on Sep 21, 2017 at 11:05:23 am     #   5 people liked this

Who?

posted by clt212 on Sep 21, 2017 at 11:19:12 am     #  

A guy with a bigger Larry Sykes complex than Larry Sykes.

http://socialistworker.org/2006-2/596/596_12_ToledoRacism.shtml

http://toledocitypaper.com/the-city/toledos-primed-to-hear-more-from-rising-activist-future-politician/

posted by justread on Sep 21, 2017 at 11:26:03 am     #   5 people liked this

Another example of bad behavior being passed off as a righteous crusade against the bad behavior of others.

Or, in this case:
Black louts mutter.

posted by justread on Sep 21, 2017 at 03:18:01 pm     #   4 people liked this

Ok. Based upon the Blade article, as long as he wasn't:

1. Menacing
2. Aggressive

I am going to side with the 1st Amendment here. However ill-timed his comments were, he does have the rights to voice those opinions.

Johnnymac and the other attornies here remember the Schenck case. Free speech can be limited if it constitutes a "clear and present danger." Saying "f" the police does not.

posted by Dappling2 on Sep 21, 2017 at 04:53:45 pm     #  

Overriding factor to what was said was the observed operation of the subject's vehicle. Slamming on the brakes in traffic in order to issue an expletive towards officers doing their duty in their first party observable judgement created a hazard. He could have waited until the next day and written an editorial in the Blade or join the brilliance right here on TT.

posted by Mariner on Sep 21, 2017 at 05:16:14 pm     #  

Dappling2 posted at 04:53:45 PM on Sep 21, 2017:

Ok. Based upon the Blade article, as long as he wasn't:

1. Menacing
2. Aggressive

I am going to side with the 1st Amendment here. However ill-timed his comments were, he does have the rights to voice those opinions.

Johnnymac and the other attornies here remember the Schenck case. Free speech can be limited if it constitutes a "clear and present danger." Saying "f" the police does not.

He was guilty of stupid. If stupid were illegal we would all be in jail. He may have invited the exact attention he has been craving in his life. But I didn't see the accident causing part or whatever. I only see him. His whole persona. I see that. He presents as intelligent, but then acts like an idiot. Which is it, class president or class clown? Will we find out when he grows up? Could go either way. That's how it is with young people. I don't know how old he is, but I am assuming immaturity. I think that's fair under the circumstances. I believe it is immature to yell "F*ck the Police" at cops. Or really, at anyone.

But he was not Congress trying to limit the press, assemblage of people, the ability to complain to the government or a religion trying to get established. I'm no constitutional attorney, but this may not be a first amendment case. Fourth maybe?

I also don't understand how yelling "F**k the police" at random police officers moves the ball of respect and legitimacy in the direction that the very people who do it are demanding it move. I just don't.

posted by justread on Sep 21, 2017 at 06:20:15 pm     #   2 people liked this

So if he truly wants to be known as "Golden Rule", can I run up to him whenever I see him and yell "Fuck Julian Mack!" whenever I see him?

Do unto others and all that.

posted by JoeyGee on Sep 21, 2017 at 06:50:54 pm     #   5 people liked this

You are missing the point. That was an idiot move. However, the first amendment protects idiocy in spoken language.

JoeyGee... yes...if you were casually walking by him you could say "fuck you golden rule."

Justread...freedom of speech shall not be abridged. It is a 1st amendment issue

posted by Dappling2 on Sep 21, 2017 at 08:08:06 pm     #  

JoeyGee posted at 06:50:54 PM on Sep 21, 2017:

So if he truly wants to be known as "Golden Rule", can I run up to him whenever I see him and yell "Fuck Julian Mack!" whenever I see him?

Do unto others and all that.

In The Measurement of Moral Judgment: Volume 2 Colby and Kohlberg seem to suggest that "two wrongs don't make a right" trumps "do unto others." So, while being legal, it could be ethically wrong.

posted by justread on Sep 21, 2017 at 08:32:37 pm     #   1 person liked this

The summons says he hit the brakes, swerved and almost caused an accident, fwiw.

He's removed all references to it on his FB page now.

posted by Ace_Face on Sep 21, 2017 at 08:35:18 pm     #   1 person liked this

This is an interesting and relevant topic.

posted by dino on Sep 21, 2017 at 08:38:40 pm     #  

Is this the same guy that TPPA was circulating a Facebook post about, or was that someone else entirely?

Long story short: there was recently a man who claims he was mistreated by Toledo Police on a traffic stop. He posted edited videos of the incident that misrepresented the situation.

TPPA made a public Facebook post refuting his claim stating that the full video from dash cam & body cams show the parts that the man edited out.

posted by mom2 on Sep 21, 2017 at 10:21:55 pm     #  

Found the post. It was another man:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1677366838980588&id=158084007575553

"Yesterday, Darryl Elston Gambrell posted this video claiming police brutality. People need to ask themselves multiple questions regarding his post. Most can be cleared through public records at TMC Clerk.com and the Lucas County Clerk of Courts Docket websites. Why did Mr. Elston edit the videos he was provided that showed the officers pursuing him on foot and vehicle after it was reported he had stolen a cell phone from a cellular phone store? There is body cam and in car dash cam video showing all of that. Why did he forget the fact that he broke into a garage in an attempt to elude those officers? Why was he remiss in relaying the fact that he fought with the lone officer forcing that officer to use a department authorized use of force called an open hand stun ( a slap to the face)? Why did he not post his medical records reflecting the injuries he claimed? He was not charged with assault on a police officer. He was charged with intimidation by an inmate for spitting blood into the face and mouth of an officer then informing him he was HIV positive (all available in online public records). This forced the court to mandate testing and the officer to go through months of treatment. Why did he say he was held for months on a $150K bond for the charge when in fact he was being held on three additional charges of Grand Theft Auto from another police jurisdiction? Lucas County Clerk of Court online records show that he languished in Lucas County Jail due to the fact that he repeatedly requested continuances on his case. These types of posts only increase the divide. People need to stop taking them for face value and use public records to see what truly occurred."

Dan Wagner
President

posted by mom2 on Sep 21, 2017 at 10:26:55 pm     #  

The Facebook link I posted is from TPPA's post.

If you click the link, you can also see the man's original post which was shared by TPPA.

posted by mom2 on Sep 21, 2017 at 10:30:07 pm     #  

justread posted at 08:32:37 PM on Sep 21, 2017:
JoeyGee posted at 06:50:54 PM on Sep 21, 2017:

So if he truly wants to be known as "Golden Rule", can I run up to him whenever I see him and yell "Fuck Julian Mack!" whenever I see him?

Do unto others and all that.

In The Measurement of Moral Judgment: Volume 2 Colby and Kohlberg seem to suggest that "two wrongs don't make a right" trumps "do unto others." So, while being legal, it could be ethically wrong.

Dangit.

posted by JoeyGee on Sep 21, 2017 at 10:56:50 pm     #   1 person liked this

Go https://www.tmc-clerk.com/caseinformation/criminaltraffic/default.aspx type in Mack then Julian and read the complaint when the PDF file comes up. Also go to Bowling Green clerk of courts. Can't copy and paste from a PDF file so you will have to read it yourself. It also says the brakes were applied and the car swerved toward the officer and then the F word besides almost causing an accident when doing such.

posted by Nyse on Sep 23, 2017 at 02:57:10 pm     #  

Julian, you are judged by the company you keep...especially if you plan to run and serve in office for the public.

posted by dino on Sep 23, 2017 at 08:15:10 pm     #  

The Lucas County Democratic Party sees no problem with this.

posted by justread on Oct 03, 2017 at 10:51:24 am     #  

?

posted by upso on Oct 03, 2017 at 12:23:52 pm     #  

upso posted at 12:23:52 PM on Oct 03, 2017:

?

probably related to this Oct 2, 2017 blade story.

http://www.toledoblade.com/local/2017/10/02/School-board-candidate-Ruth-Leonard-keeps-Democratic-party-endorsement.html

Ruth Leonard, a candidate for Toledo Public Schools Board of Education, retained her endorsement from the Lucas County Democratic Party Monday after being cited in connection with an incident in which a passenger in her car allegedly yelled an obscenity at police.

The party’s executive committee had expected to reconsider Ms. Leonard’s endorsement at its meeting, but the committee met without the issue being raised, said party Chairman Joshua Hughes.

“Nobody brought it up,” Mr. Hughes said.

Ms. Leonard, 31, a former librarian in a Toledo charter school, was accused in a police report of hitting her brakes quickly and nearly causing a crash while passing by police officers who were making an unrelated stop at Dorr Street and Lawrence Avenue on Sept. 20.

The person riding with her, Julian Mack, 33, is accused in a separate summons of yelling out the car window, “[Expletive] the police.” According to the summons, Mr. Mack shouted as the vehicle sped by the officer, almost causing a crash with other moving vehicles.

Ms. Leonard was cited for a fourth-degree misdemeanor of causing a risk of physical harm. She pleaded not guilty and the case was set for a pre-trial Oct. 24 in Toledo Municipal Court.

Shortly after the incident, Mr. Hughes said that, if the charges were proven, it would be “very concerning,” and said Ms. Leonard’s endorsement could be discussed and possibly withdrawn at Monday’s meeting.

posted by jr on Oct 03, 2017 at 12:32:40 pm     #   1 person liked this

Gotcha, I missed that.

If you saw the video Julian posted on Facebook, it was pretty clear Ruth did NOTHING wrong.

posted by upso on Oct 03, 2017 at 12:52:20 pm     #  

If that is only a pre-trial in a minor mis should be a plea deal small fine and slap on the wrist handled that day. It still runs it close to election day or past it if not. Seems like a clear case of conduct unbecoming to me. Bear in mind this is the same crowd who invited and welcomed Jerry Springer into town several years ago when he stated "I've ruined American society."

posted by Mariner on Oct 03, 2017 at 12:53:10 pm     #  

upso posted at 12:52:20 PM on Oct 03, 2017:

Gotcha, I missed that.

If you saw the video Julian posted on Facebook, it was pretty clear Ruth did NOTHING wrong.

I did not see the video. Who took the video? Was this a police dash-cam video? Surveillance camera video? Something from ODOT?

From your comment, I infer that the video disproves the following the claim from the police report:

... hitting her brakes quickly and nearly causing a crash ...

... vehicle sped by the officer, almost causing a crash with other moving vehicles.

posted by jr on Oct 03, 2017 at 01:25:18 pm     #   1 person liked this

The video came from Julian's Facebook "live" stream that started as the police began following Ruth's car.

It was clear the Police knew Julian and were citing him for screaming FUCK THE POLICE at them out the window while Ruth was driving.

It's technically not illegal to quote a famous rap song but I get why they were bothered. You got a sense from the video that the Police cited Ruth as a technicality to help justify the pullover, but only Julian was asked to leave the car.

When he did leave for a few moments, the camera remained on Ruth who began crying. It was really quite depressing.

posted by upso on Oct 03, 2017 at 02:47:48 pm     #  

If the suggestion is that the officer lied on the police report, and that the citation was bogus, and she never drove is such a manner, I think she should take this all the way to the supreme court.

posted by justread on Oct 03, 2017 at 03:03:01 pm     #   2 people liked this

To infinity and beyond. If that's the way things went. She clearly was heard on the vid "I don't know why he said what he did." She didn't hollar the expletive but it's still complicity. Unless it is Dem county politicking so soft pedal it, sweep it under the rug for the team since the voters have no memory and we will go our merry way.

posted by Mariner on Oct 03, 2017 at 03:27:21 pm     #  

justread posted at 10:51:24 AM on Oct 03, 2017:

The Lucas County Democratic Party sees no problem with this.

This incident aside, it's an interesting predicament; wanting to court the people who see "XXXX the police" as a modern slogan while at the same time relying on the police to win at the ballot box (we need the $ or the police say they can't protect you) and fighting tooth and nail to make sure they (police unions) get anything/everything they want.

posted by Columbusguy on Oct 03, 2017 at 04:49:38 pm     #  

It's almost as if there are two societies.

I am still doing "integration." Should I still be doing integration?

posted by justread on Oct 03, 2017 at 05:25:46 pm     #  

I was really hoping integration would work. You know... come together into one society while embracing and celebrating the things that make each unique. But at least share one set of social norms. It makes me sad that there is so much anger. Does nobody take statistics anymore? To see how few bad cops there really are? And how many good black men? We only get one narrative. (I know, if I had the white man's boot on my neck I would literally be screaming too, I get it, I get it.) But it's sad that the most positive role models the black community has are forced to communicate their views at the lowest possible level of discourse. Julian Mack is smarter than that. It shouldn't be that way. So much anger is being modeled. I miss the leaders who modeled persuasion and could cast a vision and would draw you in because they were positive souls. Oh well... time for a drink.

posted by justread on Oct 03, 2017 at 05:36:31 pm     #  

(That reads funny.)
Drinking because I can't solve it. Not because I don't want to. If anyone has any ideas, I'm down.

posted by justread on Oct 03, 2017 at 06:01:42 pm     #  

upso posted at 02:47:48 PM on Oct 03, 2017:

The video came from Julian's Facebook "live" stream that started as the police began following Ruth's car.

It was clear the Police knew Julian and were citing him for screaming FUCK THE POLICE at them out the window while Ruth was driving.

It's technically not illegal to quote a famous rap song but I get why they were bothered. You got a sense from the video that the Police cited Ruth as a technicality to help justify the pullover, but only Julian was asked to leave the car.

When he did leave for a few moments, the camera remained on Ruth who began crying. It was really quite depressing.

After reading this thread, all I can ask is why would anyone want juveniles running or having an important say in any city or school business?

posted by oldhometown on Oct 06, 2017 at 01:38:07 pm     #  

oldhometown posted at 01:38:07 PM on Oct 06, 2017:
upso posted at 02:47:48 PM on Oct 03, 2017:

The video came from Julian's Facebook "live" stream that started as the police began following Ruth's car.

It was clear the Police knew Julian and were citing him for screaming FUCK THE POLICE at them out the window while Ruth was driving.

It's technically not illegal to quote a famous rap song but I get why they were bothered. You got a sense from the video that the Police cited Ruth as a technicality to help justify the pullover, but only Julian was asked to leave the car.

When he did leave for a few moments, the camera remained on Ruth who began crying. It was really quite depressing.

After reading this thread, all I can ask is why would anyone want juveniles running or having an important say in any city or school business?

How many times did this city elect Carty Finkbeiner?

posted by JoeyGee on Oct 06, 2017 at 01:42:44 pm     #  

We silently accept the rage of the white man?

posted by justread on Oct 06, 2017 at 01:46:58 pm     #   1 person liked this

"After reading this thread, all I can ask is why would anyone want juveniles running or having an important say in any city or school business?"

I realize you asking a rhetorical ? here oht - because I KNOW you KNOW the answer.

posted by Foodie on Oct 06, 2017 at 02:25:39 pm     #  

Interesting how Nolan was all over the Police Chief on twitter when this happened. He had asked the Chief about it after 9 pm when the incident happened, with a legitimate question. However, in two hours the Chief did not respond. Nolan took this as "silence" on the topic and approving of these actions.

However, not everyone is on twitter betweeen 9-11 pm. His comments after two hours were not called for.

The next morning the Chief responded and arranged for a meeting with Nolan.

posted by Spaceace on Oct 07, 2017 at 07:29:19 pm     #   2 people liked this

Bravo Sierra. Aviation phonetics for BS. We are not paying the Chief to rush into the ring every time the bell rings. I like Nolan's work even if he is a bit scruffy but then the days of starched white shirts and three piece suits are long gone. If the Chief thinks a courtesy should be shown to a reporter than that's his call. Tweeter tweet crap is for those without a handle on their impulses.

posted by Mariner on Oct 08, 2017 at 04:42:06 pm     #  

We had a really good meeting and I appreciated his time. I don't think I should say more out of respect for him. I was speaking at the time as the president of a union that advocates for strong First Amendment rights, and not as a reporter.

posted by Nolan_Rosenkrans on Oct 08, 2017 at 06:26:25 pm     #   2 people liked this

This individual, Julian Mack, recorded his early voting this morning attempting to be the first vote cast lost out to his companion who beat him out for 1st vote. He recorded commentary while waiting for the doors to open, continued through the check-in process and voter validation. The recording was kept running as he made his selection at the voting machine and outside the polling location with a brief social commentary. The video was uploaded to his facebook page indicating how he had cast his ballot and what selections he had choosen. The following is ORC for such activity.

(1) The Ohio Secretary of State's opinion on recording inside the polling place has been evolving. Secretary Husted issued Directive 2012-29 in August, which instructs local elections officials to allow reasonable media access, provided such access does not interfere with poll workers and voters. The 2012 Directive instructs officials to consider, among other things, whether the media representative has press credentials, the length of time planned to be present, and the effect such presence will have on the conduct of the vote. This Directive supersedes Secretary Brunner's 2008 Directive, which specifically distinguished credentialed media from "internet writer[s]." The 2012 Directive makes no such distinction.
(2) Ohio Code § 3501.35(a)(4) states that no person shall "[e]xhibit any ticket or ballot which the elector intends to cast." It is unclear whether this law would only be applied before a ballot is cast.

At no point in the recording did any poll workers, election officials approach nor speak with Julian Mack to turn off his cell phone.

Should the Secretary of State be notified of an election law violation?

posted by Mariner on Oct 11, 2017 at 12:04:05 pm     #